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AaronFrost
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Post Post #300  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:05 pm

I also don't like how you bring up this theory immediately only to completely disregard it in your very next post.

Tchill13
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Post Post #301  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:22 pm

I think your first point is invalid because literally everyone is gonna say "why would I kill azure?" when being pressured.

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Post Post #302  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:49 pm

Fair enough. Still don't see how it connects me/skitter though.

Elements
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Post Post #303  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:37 pm

In post 302, AaronFrost wrote:Fair enough. Still don't see how it connects me/skitter though.

The you/skitter connection is because you both said scum probably in the last three on the wagon

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Post Post #304  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:56 pm

Both scum members are gonna make the same exact statement early D2 huh?

Elements
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Post Post #305  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:13 pm

That's what I mean when I said it seems too brash

Elements
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Post Post #306  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:13 pm

I mean, I have dismissed that theory. Idk why we're still talking about it

Tchill13
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Post Post #307  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:18 pm

As long as you've dismissed it lol. Sorry. Of the 2 who do you think is the more likely to be scum? I'd say skitter. Seemed fence sitty d1.

Elements
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Post Post #308  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:20 pm

I'm thinking hectic might be scum from the night kill. It's obviously just for confution, and that's a very hectic thing to do. (No pun intended)

NotMySpamAccount
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Post Post #309  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:17 pm

Elements wrote:
In post 294, NotMySpamAccount wrote:VOTE: Hectic

Give some explanation before I join you?


Gladly:

In post 279, Hectic wrote:If Reaper flips town here:
Scum!Azure is hammering him before his replacement can come in to townspew and save this miserable train wreck of a slot.
That or she's playing as REAL fucking bad town.
Like town that doesn't deserve to be called town, or even a village.
More like a slum.


and

Elements wrote:I'm thinking hectic might be scum from the night kill. It's obviously just for confution, and that's a very hectic thing to do. (No pun intended)


The nk is a crazy move, but that post makes it look even worse.
Show

Elements
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Post Post #310  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:38 pm

Cool
VOTE: hectic

Saladman27
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Post Post #311  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:54 pm

VC 2.1
GrandWazoo wrote:Greetings all.

VOTE: moonythedwarf

Correct term is "little person."


Not Voting (3) - rosterfoster, AaronFrost, Hectic
Hectic (2) - NotMySpamAccount, Elements (L-2)
NotMySpamAccount (1) - Tchill13
Elements (1) - skitter30

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to hammer.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2019-09-23 11:00:00)

Game Notes
- skitter30 is V/LA on Friday's and Saturdays

Elements
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Post Post #312  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:17 pm

Hectic/roster either say something or concede. We're getting bored here

Hectic
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Post Post #313  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:32 pm

Right, got some shit to say so listen up. Firstly, let's talk about why Azure died in the night.

Azure was a REALLY fucking easy mislynch today. She was literally saying shit like "Reaper townslipped" just a couple of days before hammering him. Not to mention she hammered 10 days early.
I know I would be tunnelling the shit out of her right now.
Now let's look at WHY scum decided to kill her.

Either:
1) Her scumreads were good.
2) They figured out she was a PR.
3) WIFOM bullshit.

Now let me talk about this 3rd point first because I've seen this dumb WIFOM bullshit be brought up a lot since the start of the day.
SO fucking often, scum will kill the player who's scumreading them the most, or has better reads than everyone else, and you know the one argument that always fucking comes up the next day?
"Oh, but scum are just killing the person who was probably going to be mislynched the next day because they're trying to sow confusion. We shouldn't look too closely at the NK's scumreads because WIFOM. I'm a simple minded player and eat raw eggs for breakfast."
FUCK THAT. It's exactly this mindset which makes it reasonable for scum to kill like this, because people ALWAYS seem to fucking disregard WHY night kills happened because of this dumb bullshit reason of WIFOM.
Like 90%+ of the time, it is NOT because scum are going for some shitty WIFOM plays, it's because it's the fucking optimal kill for them.

Now let's not disregard point number 2.
I went through Azure's ISO trying to look for ANY kind of crumb that could indicate her role.
I found fuck all.
Either Azure is REAL fucking good at breadcrumbing, and scum are even better at somehow finding that garbage like they're fucking Hansel and Gretel or some shit.
OR, there aren't any hidden breadcrumbs.
I didn't really get PR vibes from her play either; it was brazen and there was nothing cautious about it.

So let's focus on point 1 and have a look at her scumreads:
In post 144, Azuresky wrote:Spams vote is shitty, but ill say more non-participating than scummy, Chill's is shitty, Elements' I already explained, and I think Aaron's is probably the most townish one.

Elements/Chill/Reaper/Hectic in that order.

They are all in that group.

In post 158, Azuresky wrote:Ok in summary:

Aaron is Voting me for actual reasons for him to believe I am Scum.
Elements is sheeping Aaron
Spam says ISO
Tchill is being a salty bitch.

If you think this is town-motivated, I welcome someone to hammer.

In post 239, Azuresky wrote:Lol if thats all Elements has to say, Im fine with my vote.

Reapers replace-out sucks. He mention it earlier?

In post 245, Azuresky wrote:Hey elements.

Tell me more about your scumplay.

I would LOVE to get inside your (killme) HEAD

Yeah. She was hard fucking scumreading Elements all day. It's honestly too fucking easy if the other scum is Tchill and she nailed them both in , which is why scum had to fucking kill her.
But Elements!scum on its own is enough for scum to warrant killing her to stop her pushing him today.

All this on it's OWN is enough to make me do this:

VOTE: Elements

Hectic
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Post Post #314  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:46 pm

So now let's move on and talk about the events of D2 so far. First let's talk about this scummy as fuck post:

In post 290, Elements wrote:So this pinged me straight away:
In post 256, AaronFrost wrote:I don't see this flipping scum tbh. If it flips town, then at least one of the last three on the wagon {Spam, Elements, Azure} are probably scum.

In post 289, skitter30 wrote:There's almost for sure scum on (the back half of) that wagon
VOTE: elements

Especially Aaron's post. Is basically telling scum "we're most likely going to lynch inside these three tomorrow" then Azure dies. To me that looks like scum trying to cause confusion off the night kill and push a mislynch on NMSA or me. Most likely me given azurs's reads.

I have two current theories:

1 - Aaron/Skitter scum team. Aaron setting up the mislynch set at the end of the last day then they killed azure in the night for added confusion. Now they start pushing on one of the others in Aaron's set (me). The only problem I have is that skitter is an expereienced player and I can't imagine them being so brazen with their first post.

2 - We have absolutely no idea what's going on. Mafia are sitting back watching us tear ourselves apart. The night kill was purely to confuse us. This works due to the number of wagons that reached L-1 and the speed in which they did so. At most I think there would be 1 scum on any of those wagons. That said, I'm going to check back through the voting and have a look.

For now VOTE: Aaron
will change once I've looked at the voting

Really, Elements?
You're consider 2 scenarios why Azure was nightkilled, and neither of them are considering her fucking reads? You know, the most obvious fucking reason given her status as mislynch bait today?
EVEN if he says he didn't bring it up because Azure was scumreading him and he knows he's town, he still fucking should. She had other scumreads and her last post even expressed a bit of suspicion on me with the "Your confidence on Reaper being scum seems to have dropped. Odd." shit.
But Elements doesn't bring up any of this.
Why? I'll tell you fucking why:
Because bringing attention to her scumreads is going to bring attention to the fact that she was scumreading him the entire fucking day. And that isn't the narrative that Elements wants to paint the nightkill as.

Now let's talk about the "theories" that Elements proposes.
You're telling me that scum are really this fucking transparent to outwardly push this agenda of lynching on the back half of Reaper's wagon so close to each other? If anything, them posting the same opinion so fucking close together like that make them LESS likely to be a scum team.
Scum are hyper aware of being associated with their scum buddy and agreeing with/townreading them too much, so this makes Skitter + Aaron slightly less likely.
And not only that, Elements is proposing they're going for this mislynch the last 3 of the wagon strat WHILE nightkilling one of those potential mislynches for "added confusion"? Like wtf do you mean by that, how the fuck does it benefit them to kill Azure - who was the EASIEST mislynch today based on that logic and other reasons - if they're playing for that strat?
It's weak as fuck reasoning.

The second theory is trying to paint the narrative that the night kill means nothing and we should disregard Azure's scumreads because Elements was her top scumread.
Nah, let's not do that.

Also, I'll briefly talk about how this kind of post by Elements is scummy even if you disregard the actual contents.
Like the coming in trying to be logical, taking stances and giving out opinions at the start of a new day? It's forced as fuck and reeks of scum trying to imitate what they THINK town would act like.
That's why it benefits scum!Elements to propose that shitty first theory. He thinks it'll look like a logical read which can get him some towny points.
Then is a whole lot of fucking effort for something that isn't really that useful. Again, reeks of scum doing shit they think will be read as helpful.

Tchill13
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Post Post #315  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:49 pm

I lkke what hectic is selling I'm not gonna lie. You use to many fucking words dude... It's like reading a damn novel every post...

Tchill13
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Post Post #316  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:51 pm

So disregard the night kill means nothing because there was no crumb of a PR you couldn't find correct?

Hectic
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Post Post #317  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:54 pm

And then this fucking shit:
In post 291, Elements wrote:
Spoiler: Day 1 Voting
Elements -> Elements
skitter -> Azure
roster -> Elements
Hectic -> Elements
Reaper -> Elements
Elements ->
Reaper ->
roster -> Reaper
Elements -> roster
Aaron -> Hectic
Skitter -> roster
Elements -> Aaron
Elements -> Skitter
Reaper -> NMSA
Tchill -> Reaper
NMSA -> Tchill
Tchill -> Elements
Azure -> Hectic
Tchill -> Reaper
Elements -> Hectic
Hectic -> Reaper
Elements -> Reaper
Reaper -> Hectic
Tchil -> NMSA
Aaron -> Azure
Elements -> Azure
NMSA -> Azure
Azure -> Elements
Reaper -> Roster
Tchill -> Azure
Elements ->
Tchill ->
Aaron -> Elements
Skitter -> Elements
Tchill -> Elements
Tchill ->
Elements -> Tchill
NMSA -> Reaper
Elements -> Reaper
Azure -> Reaper

Vote Changes:
Elements - 11
Skitter - 3
roster - 2
hectic - 2
reaper - 5
Aaron - 3
Tchill - 8
NMSA - 3
Azure - 3


Looking though the voting I'm favouring my second theory and don't think I'm liking Hectic or roster at this point. They both parked their votes early on. roster is also the epitome of lurking. His 12 posts contain less fact than a chocolate frog card.
VOTE: roster

Expresses he doesn't like me.
In post 295, Elements wrote:
In post 294, NotMySpamAccount wrote:VOTE: Hectic

Give some explanation before I join you?

He's already stated he doesn't like me but is now almost asking for fucking permission to vote me. Like he needs to see that other people are okay with this before he actually votes me. And to look like reasonable town who doesn't have an agenda and is switching his vote onto me naturally.
In post 308, Elements wrote:I'm thinking hectic might be scum from the night kill. It's obviously just for confution, and that's a very hectic thing to do. (No pun intended)

Again expresses his dislike of me, but doesn't vote me. Just throws this opinion out there, testing the waters, waiting for Spam to say he scumreads me so that he can hop on. Wants to look like he DOESN'T have an agenda but is unknowingly making it really fucking obvious he does lol.
In post 309, NotMySpamAccount wrote:
Elements wrote:
In post 294, NotMySpamAccount wrote:VOTE: Hectic

Give some explanation before I join you?


Gladly:

In post 279, Hectic wrote:If Reaper flips town here:
Scum!Azure is hammering him before his replacement can come in to townspew and save this miserable train wreck of a slot.
That or she's playing as REAL fucking bad town.
Like town that doesn't deserve to be called town, or even a village.
More like a slum.


and

Elements wrote:I'm thinking hectic might be scum from the night kill. It's obviously just for confution, and that's a very hectic thing to do. (No pun intended)


The nk is a crazy move, but that post makes it look even worse.

Spam responds. His reasons equate to:
Because I was considering the scenario where Reaper would flip town. (Btw, of course I'm going to be fucking inclined to think Reaper has a higher chance to flip town AFTER Azure fucking hammers him like that. Azure being scummy AF makes the person she's hammering more likely to be town. It's common fucking sense.)
And Spam agreeing with something Elements was already thinking.
In post 310, Elements wrote:Cool
VOTE: hectic

And that's good enough for Elements to switch vote lol.

Tchill13
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Post Post #318  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:55 pm

@hectic

If you follow your reasoning for pushing elements so hard it also applies to you. Azure's scum reads that are still alive are me/you and elements.

But because you brought that up before elements did we're all supposed to town read you and scum read elements?

Hectic
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Post Post #319  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:56 pm

In post 316, Tchill13 wrote:So disregard the night kill means nothing because there was no crumb of a PR you couldn't find correct?

I couldn't find any crumbs so we DON'T disregard her scumreads. She was killed for her those, OR to "sow confusion" which I don't buy.

Hectic
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Post Post #320  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:58 pm

In post 318, Tchill13 wrote:@hectic

If you follow your reasoning for pushing elements so hard it also applies to you. Azure's scum reads that are still alive are me/you and elements.

But because you brought that up before elements did we're all supposed to town read you and scum read elements?

Well, the fact he's ignoring it completely does make him a lot more fucking scummy.
And don't pretend like Azure wasn't scumreading Elements a whole lot more than me yesterday.

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Post Post #321  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:59 pm

I agree that scum reads are a driving factor in most night kills.

She left 4 total. One was the lynch.

So if that's the driving factor wouldn't scum hesitate since they still have to get past 2 day phases? I could see them doing it on the last day phase but we literally have 2 day phases to Lynch 3 ppl if scum is in there.

Tchill13
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Post Post #322  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:03 pm

In post 320, Hectic wrote:
In post 318, Tchill13 wrote:@hectic

If you follow your reasoning for pushing elements so hard it also applies to you. Azure's scum reads that are still alive are me/you and elements.

But because you brought that up before elements did we're all supposed to town read you and scum read elements?

Well, the fact he's ignoring it completely does make him a lot more fucking scummy.
And don't pretend like Azure wasn't scumreading Elements a whole lot more than me yesterday.


I find it interesting that you pushed elements before me. Elements voted you and didn't bring azure's reads up (fair point I guess) but I was also in there and I also was on every wagon that reached L-1 I'm pretty sure. Which is scummier than what elements did imo. So it just looks to me like had I pushed you like elements did you'd be pressing me atm.

Are you the type that scum reads everyone that pushes you when you're town?

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Post Post #323  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:04 pm

In post 321, Tchill13 wrote:I agree that scum reads are a driving factor in most night kills.

She left 4 total. One was the lynch.

So if that's the driving factor wouldn't scum hesitate since they still have to get past 2 day phases? I could see them doing it on the last day phase but we literally have 2 day phases to Lynch 3 ppl if scum is in there.


Last day phase before lylo.

Hectic
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Post Post #324  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:05 pm

In post 321, Tchill13 wrote:I agree that scum reads are a driving factor in most night kills.

She left 4 total. One was the lynch.

So if that's the driving factor wouldn't scum hesitate since they still have to get past 2 day phases? I could see them doing it on the last day phase but we literally have 2 day phases to Lynch 3 ppl if scum is in there.

Sure, she posted those 4 and Elements is just one of them, but it was earlier in the day, and she spent a whole lot of the day attacking Elements. He was CLEARLY her biggest scumread by a longshot.

Yeah, it's the driving factor, and that's exactly why Elements has to come out here trying to paint the narrative that the nightkill is to cause confusion, while not even considering Azure's scumreads.

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