Normal 222: Black Versus White Mafia (Endgame)

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Isn’t that his M.O. though?

[Chickadee]

Isn’t that his M.O. though?

We need more from your spot too, or you're the next to go.

[Rick Dalton]

Honestly, down.

Lynch Fonz then LUV.

VOTE: Fonz

I expected to get torn to shreds with that push.

[Almost50]

VOTE: The Fonz

I think Creature lurking was NAI (he did say somewhere he was taking a leave). However, Fonz push on RD doesn't feel genuine. I think he is more likely to actually try and make a case as town (one short-lives experience with him). I would have expected him to engage RD more if he did SR him.

[PMysterious]

I'm still reading through some of these posts, but based on what I've gathered, I'm not a fan of either Rick Dalton or The Fonz at this point.

Rick, I find your posts to be all over the place. The only thing that could be true is that there is at least one Ninja in this game. Everything else just confuses me, almost like an enigma.

The Fonz- "Lynch All Liars", the first and only thing that is said in this position. No other reason to push on Rick being scum, other than "he's a liar". Yes, he's claimed that he pretended, but that's all he's done so far. I don't see any real reason to push on Rick at the moment, so I'm probably going to leave that alone.

VOTE: The Fonz

I'm going to place Fonz at L-2, so I'm going to ask you, is there any other reason you suspect Rick, or is there any reason that you just voted for him with the "Lynch All Liars" quote?

As for everyone else, I'll get to that as soon as I can.

[Vorkuta]

I would object to the wagon speed.
However someone else probably will, and this game needs something to revitalize it.

I'm also too lazy to use my head and do anything about it other than say this

[Rick Dalton]

Yeah, i don’t like the speed of that, but scum could easily have thought i was gonna hard push so they got scared and bussed. Idk where that would be right now, though. I have a meeting for work with some big wigs rn.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: Rick Dalton

Guys, lynch all liars. Seriously.

Any comments other than taking the easy road?
You replaced Creature, who had high scum equity. So taking the easy road right off the bat with no other comments doesn't sit well with me.

Unclear how this is the easy road, but whatever. I don't care what's easy. I care that people who lie about their role PMs basically always flip scum. There's a reason I use to have LYNCH ALL LIARS as my fucking signature.

Guys, lynch all liars. Seriously.

That would be a bad idea. It would get quite a few players to be mislynched all the time (myself, FL, Jay, Clem.. to name a few). We all are notorious TOWN liars.

Eh, town should never lie about roles and night actions with very few exceptions. It's not my problem if y'all play town as a scum role. But imagine for a second you are enough of a derp to fakeclaim tracker. You are CCed by someone who says your results are fake. You immediately call them scum. That doesn't make sense. If you're town, and someone has the balls to CC you, chances are they're very likely town, right? OTOH, you're scum. What's your motive? Discredit at all costs.

VOTE: The Fonz

I think Creature lurking was NAI (he did say somewhere he was taking a leave). However, Fonz push on RD doesn't feel genuine. I think he is more likely to actually try and make a case as town (one short-lives experience with him). I would have expected him to engage RD more if he did SR him.

Eh, this is bizarre. What swung me 100% into locking onto Cyrus in Don't Remember, A50? It was him lying about his role. What did I say, while doing so? Lynch all liars. Did I expand on that? No, because lying about your role should be your head on plate ASAP, and it's really not a complicated tell. I'm not going to waffle when the best town play is so obvious.

And... engage with him? You don't argue with scum. You talk

about

them, and how they're scum, to other people whose votes you might need. I don't need to draw out anything from him, to convince me he's scum. He lied about his role.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: The Fonz

I'm going to place Fonz at L-2, so I'm going to ask you, is there any other reason you suspect Rick, or is there any reason that you just voted for him with the "Lynch All Liars" quote?

As for everyone else, I'll get to that as soon as I can.

I mean, lying alone is a strong enough scumtell that I'm 100% happy to lynch on that alone. But see the above: His play doesn't feel like town faking "for reactions" because when he gets CCed, he jumps straight to assuming it's a 1v1 and trying to discredit the person accusing him.

[Almost50]

@Fonz: That's literally how Rick Dalton play as either alignment.

UNVOTE:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, but trust me when I say it a thing on MS to never believe a claim from Flavor Leaf (Risk Dalton's main) or Bambi Jay/Elsa Jay (another player who uses 2 famous alts) and never "trust" A50's claims on D1.

[Rick Dalton]

LAL mindset is just gonna make it easy for me to sweep you when I’m actually scum.

[Rick Dalton]

I didn’t fake claim tracker. I true claimed it, it just wasn’t real.

Like ScarJo in Civil War says, there’s a difference.

[Rick Dalton]

@Fonz: That's literally how Rick Dalton play as either alignment.

UNVOTE:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, but trust me when I say it a thing on MS to never believe a claim from Flavor Leaf (Risk Dalton's main) or Bambi Jay/Elsa Jay (another player who uses 2 famous alts) and never "trust" A50's claims on D1.

A50, if you’re scum, this is the scummiest post you’ve made this game. Scratch that, this is the scummiest post you’ve made all game. I still think you’re probably town.

You back tracked because Fonz says that’s literally his meta. Why is that AI at all then?

That just makes it so it’s the perfect push tbh. This actually could be A50/Fonz scum pairing if I go deeper, but I don’t really know. I don’t really have a strong clue where scum is right now.

[Rick Dalton]

Rick, I find your posts to be all over the place. The only thing that could be true is that there is at least one Ninja in this game. Everything else just confuses me, almost like an enigma.

That’s how you can tell I’m town.

Ask A50 how consistent I am as scum. I’m a cunning sociopath.

[Rick Dalton]

Thoughts on the PMysterious slot?

That would be twice that the slots been replaced now.

[The Fonz]

@Fonz: That's literally how Rick Dalton play as either alignment.

UNVOTE:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, but trust me when I say it a thing on MS to never believe a claim from Flavor Leaf (Risk Dalton's main) or Bambi Jay/Elsa Jay (another player who uses 2 famous alts) and never "trust" A50's claims on D1.

Right. In which case, at what point do you start treating FL/RD's claims as genuine? If you just assume he is always lying about his role, doesn't that just hand him an unacceptable amount of leeway when he's scum? More specifically. RD claimed to have confirmed VD's claim. Isn't that absolutely terrible play if Rick is town and does't know VD's alignment? And doesn't VD's decision to counterclaim RD suggest that he very much was treating Rick's claim as serious?

[Rick Dalton]

You just read me based off of social aspects because that’s the type of player I am.

And VD was supposed to treat my claim as serious.

It was a serious claim, it just wasn’t real. I’ve proven success from my 5 and a half years on site, and the more erratic I play the usually the better the end game solve by me is.

I have a plethora of strong town games by me, and that’s why there’s leeway. You’re twisting words to fit your “i always lynch all liars” mindset, which is exactly what you said about me. That gives you leeway as scum because it jus takes let’s you push town players who have erratic play. Your era doesn’t comprehend the complexity of the sociological philosophy behind the playstyle such as mine, which is rather unique, but I’ve honed my skills for many years now, and even groups that have no idea who I am can see that I’m legit and have the stock.

I’ve had people say “terrible play” for years, and yet those are the exact players that I have proven incorrectly through my strong hyper carry town game and steamrolled with my maniacal scum games. To be honest, i feel like my playstyle was specifically formed to counter players of the old age, as I am from an inbetween era where I’m still mechanical and by the book, but I’m also a pillar in the New Age.

[Rick Dalton]

I also put high stress that I do not rely on straight up mechanical and technical play. This is a deduction game; it’s not as this thread name suggests, black and white. There are colors in between. There are blues, there are greens like me, and reds like you, purples.

You’re scum hiding behind your true “lynch all liars” meta.

[Rick Dalton]

Isn’t that his M.O. though?

If LUV is talking about Fonz, and Fonz flips scum, lynch this immediately.

[Rick Dalton]

And for every player that says “terrible play” towards me, there’s at least 2 others who see exactly what I bring to the table.

[Almost50]

You back tracked because Fonz says that’s literally his meta. Why is that AI at all then?

It is his meta. I only played with him for one game day before (the game got scratched), and when while I was pushing a scumster based on a slip he indeed wasn't convinced it's a slip and didn't vote the scumster until he contradicted himself and was thus caught lying.

Fonz reminded me this was his way of scum hunting, and that he doesn't engage scum after he had deduced they're scum, but rather promotes for their lynch among the other players.

I said earlier that Creature's absence was NAI because I know he planned on taking a leave, so my vote on Fonz was solely founded on him not engaging you, and as he got me corrected on what I had thought would be his town play I no longer have a valid reason to vote the slot. He is now back to NAI and I should evaluate his play from this moment on.

[The Fonz]

You back tracked because Fonz says that’s literally his meta. Why is that AI at all then?

It is his meta. I only played with him for one game day before (the game got scratched), and when while I was pushing a scumster based on a slip he indeed wasn't convinced it's a slip and didn't vote the scumster until he contradicted himself and was thus caught lying.

Fonz reminded me this was his way of scum hunting, and that he doesn't engage scum after he had deduced they're scum, but rather promotes for their lynch among the other players.

I said earlier that Creature's absence was NAI because I know he planned on taking a leave, so my vote on Fonz was solely founded on him not engaging you, and as he got me corrected on what I had thought would be his town play I no longer have a valid reason to vote the slot. He is now back to NAI and I should evaluate his play from this moment on.

Cool. Who's scum then?

[Almost50]

@Fonz: That's literally how Rick Dalton play as either alignment.

UNVOTE:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though, but trust me when I say it a thing on MS to never believe a claim from Flavor Leaf (Risk Dalton's main) or Bambi Jay/Elsa Jay (another player who uses 2 famous alts) and never "trust" A50's claims on D1.

Right. In which case, at what point do you start treating FL/RD's claims as genuine? If you just assume he is always lying about his role, doesn't that just hand him an unacceptable amount of leeway when he's scum? More specifically. RD claimed to have confirmed VD's claim. Isn't that absolutely terrible play if Rick is town and does't know VD's alignment? And doesn't VD's decision to counterclaim RD suggest that he very much was treating Rick's claim as serious?

I see your point, but I request that you see mine. I have literally seen FL fake claim Masons with a SCUM player before. I did get a bit angry post game (but we really should have lynched Creature there when FL flipped and was not a Mason), but the point is this is NOT how you catch scum!FL/RD. You need to either mechanically catch him, tone read him, or straight out get a Cop guilty on him.

I repeat.. I did see TOWN!Flavor Leaf fake Masons with Scum!Creature. I also saw him claiming all sorts of things when he was totally something else. There are many reasons he does it, ranging from reaction testing to looking scummy enough so as not to be NK'd to even

baiting the NK

.

Like, if you look closely you'd see Chicka said she didn't take my VT claim seriously. Why? Because she knows I'd do that as a PR too. I WIFOM my role so scum can't tell whether it's best to shoot me or leave me be.

I am not saying you shouldn't play in the way you feel best though. You do you, but I will never vote RD for the case presented right now because -to me- it literally isn't scum indicative of him at all.

[Flavor Leaf]

Most recently I’m most proud of my Day 3 IC claim which spiraled the scum team into madness because they absolutely knew I wasn’t Day 3 IC, and they kept me alive, and I hard analyzed and got a perfect Vig shot on the mafia that was necessary to kill out of 3.

[Rick Dalton]

Oops