Open 765: Haunted Village (Over)

[NaCl]

Hello, all. Finally, feels like it's been in signups forever.

Oh shit I just noticed that I made Baezu's sig
#biasedmodding incoming

Hmm, do you prefer town or scum, Vorkuta?
VOTE: Vorkuta

[NaCl]

Just so everyone is in the clear, i've read the setup and while i really don't understand a single thing about the "points mechanic" i did gather from the setup that we are informed about who the mafia roles are already.
So Baezu has already told us in the second post which mafia roles are in the game:

- The undead role are Zombie, Witch and Ghoul

This means (If i'm understanding this right) that the mafia has looked at the townie power roles and decided they want the 2 specific roles. (Putting aside the generic goon which is called "ghoul" in this setup)

- Zombie
Will always resurrect the next day if lynched. Can only be permanently killed by other means.

- Witch
Basically the mafia rolecop.

(Please explain to me if i misunderstood something.)

Looks like it to me, although there are a few other cases where the zombie can't resurrect (after being lynched in LYLO or if they're the last scum). Also, this means that town have 6 points worth of roles, which could be relevant later in the game, when we get to claims.

[NaCl]

Why are you speculating on town PRs?

[NaCl]

Oh, wait, never mind. Scum knows what they are anyways.

p-edit. Ah, you beat me to it.

[NaCl]

Okay, my V/LA is over, time to catch up. UNVOTE: Vorkuta, I probably shouldn't have left that on while I was away.

@UiT 48 I'm not really a fan of ben's vote either, but what's the problem with leaving RVS?
Also, 57 if setup spec is obvious townpoints, why does Vorkuta doing it mean he's town?

Vorkuta's 80 is weird, but I think it's mis-stated? I can't imagine scum being like "we should mislynch some people to get the zombie".

@Vorkuta 88 3 if I have points left over and there's nothing better, otherwise 4 or more.
90 Okay, I think Vorkuta's town.

168 Hoptic, why do you care about ensuring people aren't interpreting the previous post as a townslip?

200 Vorkuta, that's not really a rebuttal to things...

And that's a lot to read so I'll do more catchup in a couple hours.

[NaCl]

Continuing stuff.

Not understanding UiT 237 but it feels bad?

275 huh, an actual post I agree with because I'm kind of lost too...

290 I think Gamma's being too nitpicky on some issues, but admittedly I haven't really been paying much attention to Hoptic yet.

On second thought, either this game is too big for me to try and focus or my mind is too hazy right now and I don't think I'm getting a good grip on things. I will try again tomorrow morning.

[NaCl]

Okay, I'm feeling a bit more refreshed now.

I don't think that going through things post by post is really my thing, especially since it feels like I'm not seeing anything much from individual posts for the most part.

Instead, here's this.

1. Unstuck in Time (hydra of Billy Pilgrim and TemporalLich) - Townlean. Seems to be open in regards to thoughts and opinions, and is scumhunting.
Also, @Billy, which games was I active in(Apart from ZE)? I'm really the kind of person who sits in the corner and does my own thing, and usually have a low post count. If you're talking about Zero Escape, I did try to lead things, but that was because I felt like no one else was doing that so I really had to force myself. I don't really think I did that in any of the other games I've played, though.
2. NaCl - Super town
3. Vorkuta - Townread. The setup spec seemed good at the time, and I also like that he didn't want to keep spending too long on it. As for why I liked 90, it's because it felt like he was putting thought as town that might not come as scum...mostly because his situation was impossible for the setup, and even if it was, his answer would be wrong, but it felt like it was genuinely town-wrong.
4. RCEnigma - Null, I'm not really seeing anything from his posts?
5. PenguinPower - Townlean. Because of tone, I guess, his posts feel calm and sometimes helpful. I don't think I can pick out an individual post that's good, but the whole way he's been acting feels town.
6. Hoptic (hydra of Hopkirk and hectic) - Townread. I don't think he wouldn't understand how zombie worked if he was scum. Although his posts are kind of hard for me to read so I didn't really bother with too much detail.
7. Platinum Phoenix (hydra of chennisden and elements) - I kind of feel like chennisden if off compared to my last game I played with him, like he's being kind of salty. I don't know if that a scumtell or not for him, though. I also don't like the vote on Vorkuta because I don't understand why it happened, I don't really see a progression there.
8. benhalkum - Scumread. His ignorance of the setup feels fake, and he hasn't really been contributing...I would vote it, but I have the feeling he's going to replace out and I don't think I'll get a satisfactory answer.
9. tris - Scumread. Because she's just throwing reads out there without much explanation on it. Also, her townreads seem a bit off to me, I'm not sure why Norwegian is in there.
@Tris, do you plan on explaining anything about why you think things?
10. norwegianboyEE - His tone feels off but mostly he's kind of null.
11. Gamma Emerald - I'm finding him kind of hard to read as well but I don't see anything scummy.
12. Beta Sapphire (hydra of ofrhz and Menalque) - Weak scumlean. His post 314 feels fake, I don't really think the same of Ben. Earlier lynchpool is meh, I've got townleans/reads on most of the slots. But apart from that, I'm not really sure if it's got bad motivations behind it.
@Beta Sapphire, could you help me understand what you think in 531? I don't really get it.
13. ceejayvinoya - I have no idea.

VOTE: Tris I guess...hopefully I can get back in the swing of things and feel the flow as posts are coming, catch up was a pain.

[NaCl]

Also NaCl, do you like Fire Emblem or did you just find that the best avatar for your username?

I kind of like Fire Emblem, but yeah, it's because it seemed to match the name. I've only played Awakening, but I'll probably pick up 3 houses in a few months.

[NaCl]

Obviously no no-lynch. Based on setup spec, I don't really think we have the strongest PRs out there, given the scum's choices of Zombie.

Hey, Ben, I'd like to ask something about what you've said before...why did you think there was no set-up page, back in one of your earlier posts?

And also, could you tell me about who you think is scum?

[NaCl]

1.

If we identify the zombie by lynching him or gaining insight through PR's the information can be used to find his scum teammates and the slot will remain as a guaranteed Lylo lynch. So i don't think it will be a big problem, it actually seems like a bad PR for the mafia to choose. Which leads me to believe that maybe they aren't so intelligent?

im inclined to agree

mafia is really stupid for choosing such a shitty PR

2.

What would the core!scum team be doing if Fake-PP was one of them?

I don't want to start a WIFOM war but Zombie is possible

No because zombie doesn't want to get lynched. There's no reason for that because at worst it just makes for a free day of lylo

I actually don't see the benefit of zombie and think it's useless but i digress

Agreed Chennis. Why did mafia choose such a bad PR? I think this is telling. We're not exactly dealing with geniuses here.

Agreed Chennis. Why did mafia choose such a bad PR? I think this is telling. We're not exactly dealing with geniuses here.

Also saying this is kinda weird

Like it kind of feels like trying to salvage the mistake by leading town down this road.

PlatinumPhoenix, why is NorwegianboyEE weird for pretty much saying the same thing you said earlier? Also, I'm kind of puzzled why you two decided to both talk about the exact same topic as a few pages before.

[NaCl]

What would the core!scum team be doing if Fake-PP was one of them?

I think they'd try to deflect elsewhere? Even if he's Zombie, it's far better for scum to have it revealed later rather than earlier. Which now makes me more suspicious of Ben.

[NaCl]

I've taken a quick look over things, and I don't really see what's up with the platinumphoenix wagon?

Am I just missing the case, or what? It kind of feels like the reasons everyone jumped on with were weak, and they were almost all from Ben -> PP, one after another? I don't think they're all scum, but they could have been seeing that the Ben wagon wasn't going to pick up anymore.

VOTE: Norwegian it kind of feels like he hopped on the wagon but is content to sit there. Although regardless, I don't think Norwegian/PlatinumPhoenix is S/S, so one flipping scum would confirm the other.

[NaCl]

do you not want to try me anymore?

Not really, no. I can look back at you later, but I don't think I can convince anyone when I haven't been focusing enough to convince myself very much.

Do you want me to be voting for you?

[NaCl]

What exactly do you think is weak reasoning, and are you tr'ing fakePP?

Hoptic is on the wagon with no reasoning at all, or none that seems clear to me. Also, I was townreading him due to a misunderstanding earlier, so now I actually need to read his posts, ugh.

Norwegian gives a reason and parks his vote, then doesn't really follow up in any way.

Gamma is okay.

I'm not really townreading PlatinumPhoenix, because I don't really see anything from the slot. If anything, I'm feeling like Chennisden's slightly different from the only game I've played with him. I just find the wagon itself to be strange.

[NaCl]

I have a stance on Asgard's vote, which is that I don't think he's putting enough effort behind it. And I didn't mention you because you voted way earlier, aren't quite in the same shift from Ben->fake-PP, and I haven't checked over your reasoning.

Also, I'm not townreading Hoptic anymore. I initially believed the blind thing, and thought that if he was scum he would understand how Zombie works. But I missed the part where he said it was a joke until just earlier. Now I actually need to read his posts rather than putting him in a pile in my mind and not worrying about him.

[NaCl]

I'm 100% sure Hectic isn't blind even if it would explain all the times we keep getting lost.

-Hop

Hoptic:
Hopkirk
Both of the heads have been defending me a lot. I want to trust them based on this, but I know that’s a silly and non-logical position to take. Hopkirk’s early posts actually give me slightly scummy vibes, but his later posts are more analytical and less meme-y. So i’m hoping his early play was just flair and joking around before getting more serious. Feeling neutral for now.
Hectic
I really like the humor of this guy, in fact this duo might be my favourite hydra simply based on entertainment value. The mixture of jokes and seriousness makes it easier for me to follow what they are both saying. Some of the jokes fall flat though, I can't see what’s funny about pretending to be blind (post 178). I thought hectic was being serious for a second, making it annoying to realize he was lying. Some things just shouldn’t be joked about imho. Anyway, he makes many good points, better than Hopkirk’s at times. All in all I’m getting a mostly towny vibe from him.
Null Hopkirk + Townlean Hectic = Slight townlean Hoptic

[NaCl]

why would him being blind lead you to townread him?

Because of his inability to understand the Zombie role. His reason behind that was that he was blind, and I figured that if he was scum, his partners would have explained it to him seeing as they picked Zombie.

[NaCl]

@Salt why would you say you been focusing?

You mean haven't been focusing, right? This is just a larger and more active game than I'd anticipated.

[NaCl]

VOTE: Norwegian it kind of feels like he hopped on the wagon but is content to sit there.

So why does that reasoning make me more vote-worthy than the other people that changed their vote from Ben? I also don't see why changing your vote is scummy. Especially since i think Fake-PP seems legitimately more scummy than Ben. (Though i don't exactly feel strong townie vibes from him either.)

Instead, I'll ask you a question. Do you think Fake-PP is scum? And apart from that, who are your other scumreads?

Oh so salts town, right

-o

Why do you think I'm town?

Anyway-it's kind of a pain to engage with people who don't engage back.
NaCl drops the occasional one liner in my direction but that's about it.

Plus... you know... there's the rest of the roster out there to aid me in my inquisition, so I rely on them to pick up the slack as well

I'm not really engaging with you because I think you're town and I don't think talking to you will help me sort stuff out. Although if you're scum, please feel free to keep talking . Really, though, if you've got questions for me, ask away.

[NaCl]

To be specific, it's not that I don't want to engage, it's that I'm not going to go take the initiative. Because I don't think I'm going to townread him more from the interaction. If he wants to discuss someone else with me I guess that could be productive, but either he's going to make me read him about the same, or possibly suspicious.

Like, maybe he could convince me that he's even more likely to be town, but I don't really think that matters.

[NaCl]

*or possibly make me more suspicious of him.

[NaCl]

Oh, yeah, sure. But I don't think he's brought it up, so I thought he was talking about why I wasn't engaging with him.

[NaCl]

Because I'm not really the teamwork kind of guy...I just kind of prefer to think through things on my own. I don't really know what to talk about. I usually ask reads and stuff of people I'm not townreading to get a better grasp on their motivations. Like, if Vork wants something from me, I'm happy to help. But I don't know how I can get him to help me understand something.

[NaCl]

im inclined to agree

mafia is really stupid for choosing such a shitty PR

This just occurred to me. It's likely that

a specific scum player

wanted to be a zombie because they heavily expected to be lynched early.

As someone who doesn't know most of the people here, who are you talking about?

There haven't been enough votecounts for me to really get a good idea of how wagons have been moving. Why does the wagon exist?

My view on it= Bandwagon on Ben accumulates due to him sounding kinda scummy in the start of the game before disappearing for a while. He then comes back and people switch their attention to Phoenix hydra due to them also sounding a bit suspicious.

So both of the wagons are in my view, not very warranted, my main reason for participating is to pressure whoever sounds the most suspicious at any given time. Just your average Day 1 groupthink...

Apart from just putting your vote there, you're not really trying to pressure him, though. And it's entirely possible he gets lynched soon from this wagon. Are you fine with that?

What exactly do you think is weak reasoning, and are you tr'ing fakePP?

Hoptic is on the wagon with no reasoning at all, or none that seems clear to me. Also, I was townreading him due to a misunderstanding earlier, so now I actually need to read his posts, ugh.

Norwegian gives a reason and parks his vote, then doesn't really follow up in any way.

Gamma is okay.

I'm not really townreading PlatinumPhoenix, because I don't really see anything from the slot. If anything, I'm feeling like Chennisden's slightly different from the only game I've played with him. I just find the wagon itself to be strange.

How do you not have a read on the slot.
You dislike the wagon and think it's scum motivated you say?

I have a stance on Asgard's vote, which is that I don't think he's putting enough effort behind it. And I didn't mention you because you voted way earlier, aren't quite in the same shift from Ben->fake-PP, and I haven't checked over your reasoning.

Also, I'm not townreading Hoptic anymore. I initially believed the blind thing, and thought that if he was scum he would understand how Zombie works. But I missed the part where he said it was a joke until just earlier. Now I actually need to read his posts rather than putting him in a pile in my mind and not worrying about him.

why would him being blind lead you to townread him?

Because of his inability to understand the Zombie role. His reason behind that was that he was blind, and I figured that if he was scum, his partners would have explained it to him seeing as they picked Zombie.

1. I didn't really see PlatinumPhoeniix as doing anything that made him seem town to me, but at the same time, not really anything scummy. I was more suspicious about how the wagon suddenly grew on him, where a few people suddenly jumped from the Ben wagon to him, and it didn't feel real to me.

2. Believe it or don't, whatever.

Because I'm not really the teamwork kind of guy.

*inhales*
This and the above 3 posts are horrible, but I don't think scum is usually this brazen.
Points for honesty I suppose but damn

Look, do you want something from me, Vorkuta?

[NaCl]

My townblock is me, Gamma, Norwegian, Unstuck.

I'm still against pretty much all the hydras +Vork. Vork is probably the only one that can take off but if he's scum I'm pretty sure I live the night. Killing me off is a blatant scumclaim. The rest I'll have more ammo on tomorrow, if I get invested in the game I guess.

What made you change your mind on UiT?

[NaCl]

There haven't been enough votecounts for me to really get a good idea of how wagons have been moving. Why does the wagon exist?

My view on it= Bandwagon on Ben accumulates due to him sounding kinda scummy in the start of the game before disappearing for a while. He then comes back and people switch their attention to Phoenix hydra due to them also sounding a bit suspicious.

So both of the wagons are in my view, not very warranted, my main reason for participating is to pressure whoever sounds the most suspicious at any given time. Just your average Day 1 groupthink...

Apart from just putting your vote there, you're not really trying to pressure him, though. And it's entirely possible he gets lynched soon from this wagon. Are you fine with that?

Plan on answering this?

[NaCl]

Yeah, i have someone i'd be willing to vote and lynch. So suspicious lel.
Let's just do nothing and let scum take control of the game, cus that's how you win mafia.

It sounds like you're not really scumreading him or doing anything to try and determine if he's actually scum.


Could someone who's townreading this guy tell me why I'm wrong? I'm quite fine with where my vote is and I think we should be lynching him.

[NaCl]

Or well, not really convinced on your scumread, but you're not trying to get evidence.

[NaCl]

Or well, not really convinced on your scumread, but you're not trying to get evidence.

All scumreads are pretty much based upon gut feelings at this point, it’s even harder for me since i can’t base it upon the meta. I don’t know anyone’s scumgame here. So the better question is: Are you really going to lambast me for what everyone else is doing on day 1?

You're not doing the same as everyone else (well, or the same as some people, anyways). You didn't care about furthering your read on PlatinumPhoenix at all.

I'm not liking their interaction just a little bit back, but given the gamestate, I think that Fake-PP is probably town, with a small chance of Zombie. The gamestate doesn't feel like one where a scum is being run up D1.

@RCE, you never answered my question, but looking back I might have been misinterpreting what you were saying. So if that's the case, never mind. Otherwise please answer.

@Tris, do you think that the Norwegian & Fake-PP interaction could be town/town? If so, why do you think it couldn't be one where Norwegian is scum and Fake-PP is town?

[NaCl]

@Tris
Oh, yeah, didn't exactly think that through clearly enough. What I was specifically meaning was "If Fake-PP is town, why does Norwegian's interaction depend on his alignment? Couldn't the interaction have gone the same way regardless of if it was Town-Fake-PP and Scum-Norwegian as if it was Town-Fake-PP and Town-Norwegian?"

[NaCl]

I'm fine voting for Benhalkum, I guess. But yeah, we do need to get a lynch organized, and I'd prefer it not to be PlatinumPhoenix.

@S_S, do you think that the PlatinumPhoenix wagon was scum-driven?

[NaCl]

I wasn't even around for the majority of it. How should I know?

I mean, statistically it's likely that scum was on it at some point, but that's not the same thing.

I was mostly asking you since (IIRC) you weren't on the wagon or against it, so I wanted to know what you think.



I'm still happy with a Norwegian lynch, my second preference is Benhalkum. Moving my vote there since it seems slightly more likely VOTE: Benhalkum. Although now I'm kind of not liking Something_Smart either after his random and pointless vote on Vorkuta at this point.

Tris and RCE are both meh wagons for me, I could go along because time's running out, but I'm not the most excited about either of them.

I'm still against the Fake-PP wagon.

[NaCl]

Well, there are all the other wagons to choose from, 1.5 days before the deadline, and rather than putting out your thoughts on them, you're randomly voting someone unrelated for no reason at all.

[NaCl]

It could be trying to stall, or possibly not knowing what to think of things. Although it is a bit weak, I agree.

Why do you think your vote is useful where it is?

[NaCl]

Can we please lynch Ben, though? Like seriously, he hasn't done anything other than hop onto easy bandwagons.

I'm kind of willing to compromise and lynch anyone at this point, as we're running out of time, but really, Ben is the vote we need.

If there's not any real change in a couple hours I guess I'll go vote Tris and go to bed.

[NaCl]

Meh, no point in waiting. VOTE: Tris

[NaCl]

well, i'm off. I won't be around for deadline.

VOTE: NaCl

We should hammer this without getting a claim

I can't tell if you're just joking or something, but I'm curious as to what would have changed between me hammering then or me or PP doing it 8 hours later? It wasn't like Tris was going to return, and I didn't see another wagon forming.

So- height of fake-PP's wagon:
Platinum Phoenix (6) ~ PenguinPower, norwegianboyEE, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma, UiT, Ben (#1265)

At this point, tris has no votes whatsoever.
Then it goes like

Spoiler:

tris(1) -> +S_S #1250
fPP(5) -RCE #1264
fPP(4) -UiT #1292,
fPP(5) +tris #1315,
fPP(6) +RCE #1329 ,
fPP(5), tris (2) +GE#1330,
tris (1) -S_S #1333
tris (2) +norskie #1350
tris (3) +fPP #1461
tris (4) +UiT #1474
tris (5) +vork
tris (6) +hop
tris (5) -vork
tris (4) -UiT
tris (5) +ben
tris (6) +UiT
tris (7) +NaCL

UiT's voting pattern (late on both wagons, jumped off when worried that something wasn't going to go through, jumped straight back on when the wagon "revived" again is that of scum wanting to mislynch either of the 2 townies available) is.... erm.... yeah
VOTE: UiT

This is a bad list. Not really over Fake-PP, but more on Tris. It was pretty clear that UiT was getting on the wagon in order to get a lynch through, since deadline was approaching. Even the jump off was because of a misunderstanding with the deadline. You literally did the same thing with the Tris wagon.

Why is it more likely for scum to be late on both wagons as opposed to being early on Fake-PP? The way I see it, at least 1 scum was probably early on the wagon to have it be rushed up so quickly and then stalling out for a bit.

[NaCl]

Is your vote based on the fact that he quickhammered town, or was it based on the fact that he quickhammered a PR?

I don't think Tris gave much indication about having a PR, so that part isn't too relevant in incriminating any voters. But quick-hammering when there was still time left for discussion is. And i don't feel good about the slot in general since NaCL has mostly been scum reading townies for bad reasons. He strongly advocated lynching Benhalkum (a townie). And he also scum reads me because "my tone is off" like he puts it. He also targets Vorkuta, though i'm not too sure about that slot so i'll leave this alone for the benefit of the doubt, but point is that from my perspective NaCL is looking very anti-town.

Do tell me what discussion I stopped? Because first of all, it wasn't like people were discussing things much in the first place, Tris wasn't coming back, and there was like less than 12 hours when I hammered. And I'm not scumreading you just for your tone, it's because your voting patterns are scummy. You're trying to discredit my points with bad reasoning, given that your vote was on Tris as well.



Other stuff...
To be honest, though, it feels like I'm a 'safe' place for people to park their votes on, given how it happened yesterday as well.
I could vote for RCE, as it still seems no one shares my interest for a Norwegian lynch. I'm also kind of suspicious of Hoptic...hmm, I guess my lynchpool is similar to yours, Vorkuta.
If RCE is scum, Platinum Phoenix is probably also scum. Well, that's what I thought at first. But he took it back, so idk...
UiT, what do you mean by a viable lynch?

[NaCl]

I'm graciously allowing other people to chip in in order to help me read them

Okay, Vorkuta, I'll talk with you now. My opinion on S_S isn't that he's super town, but more kinda null. Mostly because he seems to be parking his vote in weird places without putting actual pressure, although he doesn't seem to be actively pursuing an agenda. Though his push on me is bad, though I can't tell if it's serious or not.

Also, plan on answering 1596?


RCE, who do you think are the other scum that is pushing you, then? Since quite a few of us are suspicious of you.

[NaCl]

The fact that nobody but me and S_S has been mainly advocating for NaCL so far makes me wonder if NaCL is scum. Currently there is a lower percentage of townies compared to scum since Night 1 passed, so i'm thinking scum would be feeling more confident in pushing for mislynches. Like maybe what we're seeing with RCE and UiT? I feel like they might both just be a distraction, the former even more so than the latter. Therefore the fact that not so many people has jumped on NaCL's scummy behaviour in favour of trashing RCE and UiT makes me feel like NaCL is the safest bet to vote right now.
I don't think i'm going to switch my vote.

I think I've glazed over most of the time when nacl posts. Run me through your scumread Norwegian.

Well some of it i've said already in posts here and there, but i guess i should put all of my thoughts into one post so it will become more coherent.
First of all, he's been wanting to lynch me for a long time based upon the "tone of my posts" but he hasn't elaborated further, so i don't know why he keeps trying to raise attention to me. In day 1 he really wanted to lynch me, but "compromised" on lynching Tris instead. I know this is not too interesting since there's no way for me to prove i'm a townie, but i can't leave behind the possibility that he is scum who found himself what he believes to be a "easy" target, and keeps trying to test the waters to see if the town is willing to mislynch me.
Then in post 1521 he strongly advocates lynching Benhalkum, but hammers Tris, so he found himself two suspects, both of which turned out to be town. I believe this might have been him attempting to set up a day 2 mislynch in the form of benhalkum once the Tris lynch went through, but his plan was thwarted when the vig killed Ben. (Which is what i assumed happened) NaCL

might

be the vigilante as well, but if he was i don't think he would be acting so hostile against his future vig kill and bringing unwanted attention upon himself by the mafia and their ability to nightkill. So if my theory is correct, then NaCL is one of the most anti-town people i've currently nailed down of the whole rooster. If he's scum then his lynch would give a lot of information as well, he's claimed he was "heavily against" the Fake-PP wagon of D1, so if he's scum= Fake-PP most likely scum as well. NaCL's votes have always seemed opportunistic to me, he will seem content with anyone's lynch except for Fake-PP's wagon for some reason. Preferring to spend his time being combative about why anyone "votes for that guy" like he wants to bring it up later if he knows their mislynch will give him ammo for setting up future mislynches and he can later go "aha! He voted for X, clearly scummy!"

To be honest, though, it feels like I'm a 'safe' place for people to park their votes on, given how it happened yesterday as well.

This gives me bad vibes.

As for RCE and UiT i feel like the attacks on RCE are kinda artificial, it's just a crappy WIFOM argument as well as some (You're not like THAT in the games i've played with you?! WHERE'S THE REAL RCE???!) which seemed to me like bad arguments even back in D1, so i don't find them too engaging here in in D2 either. UiT's wagon seems more natural, but i have this feeling that UiT is genuine. It seems like they want to help town, but the whole "hydra" thing is making them difficult for each other to communicate which makes it easy for anyone to point out inconsistencies between the two.

Thank you for doing this. I was starting to doubt you were scum overnight but you really proved me wrong. VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

I don't believe you would have changed your mind or your vote on me regardless of how many people were voting me. If more people were voting me, would you say that makes me town? It's ridiculous logic.

Next, I wasn't scumreading you for your tone, I said you were a null read in that post at that point. I didn't like you because of your voting patterns. The wagon on Fake-PP grew too quickly for a town wagon compared to what I was seeing, and I think someone who got on early is scum, which is why I'm also suspicious of Hoptic.

Yes, I hammered Tris because that lynch was going through regardless. Do you think that I would have been doing that if it was between you and Tris, or Benhalkum and Tris, or anyone? Because Tris wasn't going to come back, and short of anyone claiming scum openly, that lynch wasn't changing. It's really easy to say that Benhalkum was me setting up a mislynch after he flipped, but did you ever consider how scummy he was?

You keep calling me anti-town rather than scum as an out for when I flip town.

My defense of Fake-PP is because I thought the wagon was bad.

Your attack on me is bad and it's clearly not taking an actual look at what I'm saying. If you're town, look over it again and stop lying about what my actual reasons are.

[NaCl]

The fact that nobody but me and S_S has been mainly advocating for NaCL so far makes me wonder if NaCL is scum. Currently there is a lower percentage of townies compared to scum since Night 1 passed, so i'm thinking scum would be feeling more confident in pushing for mislynches. Like maybe what we're seeing with RCE and UiT? I feel like they might both just be a distraction, the former even more so than the latter. Therefore the fact that not so many people has jumped on NaCL's scummy behaviour in favour of trashing RCE and UiT makes me feel like NaCL is the safest bet to vote right now.
I don't think i'm going to switch my vote.

I think I've glazed over most of the time when nacl posts. Run me through your scumread Norwegian.

Well some of it i've said already in posts here and there, but i guess i should put all of my thoughts into one post so it will become more coherent.
First of all, he's been wanting to lynch me for a long time based upon the "tone of my posts" but he hasn't elaborated further, so i don't know why he keeps trying to raise attention to me. In day 1 he really wanted to lynch me, but "compromised" on lynching Tris instead. I know this is not too interesting since there's no way for me to prove i'm a townie, but i can't leave behind the possibility that he is scum who found himself what he believes to be a "easy" target, and keeps trying to test the waters to see if the town is willing to mislynch me.
Then in post 1521 he strongly advocates lynching Benhalkum, but hammers Tris, so he found himself two suspects, both of which turned out to be town. I believe this might have been him attempting to set up a day 2 mislynch in the form of benhalkum once the Tris lynch went through, but his plan was thwarted when the vig killed Ben. (Which is what i assumed happened) NaCL

might

be the vigilante as well, but if he was i don't think he would be acting so hostile against his future vig kill and bringing unwanted attention upon himself by the mafia and their ability to nightkill. So if my theory is correct, then NaCL is one of the most anti-town people i've currently nailed down of the whole rooster. If he's scum then his lynch would give a lot of information as well, he's claimed he was "heavily against" the Fake-PP wagon of D1, so if he's scum= Fake-PP most likely scum as well. NaCL's votes have always seemed opportunistic to me, he will seem content with anyone's lynch except for Fake-PP's wagon for some reason. Preferring to spend his time being combative about why anyone "votes for that guy" like he wants to bring it up later if he knows their mislynch will give him ammo for setting up future mislynches and he can later go "aha! He voted for X, clearly scummy!"

To be honest, though, it feels like I'm a 'safe' place for people to park their votes on, given how it happened yesterday as well.

This gives me bad vibes.

As for RCE and UiT i feel like the attacks on RCE are kinda artificial, it's just a crappy WIFOM argument as well as some (You're not like THAT in the games i've played with you?! WHERE'S THE REAL RCE???!) which seemed to me like bad arguments even back in D1, so i don't find them too engaging here in in D2 either. UiT's wagon seems more natural, but i have this feeling that UiT is genuine. It seems like they want to help town, but the whole "hydra" thing is making them difficult for each other to communicate which makes it easy for anyone to point out inconsistencies between the two.

Thank you for doing this. I was starting to doubt you were scum overnight but you really proved me wrong. VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

I don't believe you would have changed your mind or your vote on me regardless of how many people were voting me. If more people were voting me, would you say that makes me town? It's ridiculous logic.

Next, I wasn't scumreading you for your tone, I said you were a null read in that post at that point. I didn't like you because of your voting patterns. The wagon on Fake-PP grew too quickly for a town wagon compared to what I was seeing, and I think someone who got on early is scum, which is why I'm also suspicious of Hoptic.

Yes, I hammered Tris because that lynch was going through regardless. Do you think that I would have been doing that if it was between you and Tris, or Benhalkum and Tris, or anyone? Because Tris wasn't going to come back, and short of anyone claiming scum openly, that lynch wasn't changing. It's really easy to say that Benhalkum was me setting up a mislynch after he flipped, but did you ever consider how scummy he was?

You keep calling me anti-town rather than scum as an out for when I flip town.

My defense of Fake-PP is because I thought the wagon was bad.

Your attack on me is bad and it's clearly not taking an actual look at what I'm saying. If you're town, look over it again and stop lying about what my actual reasons are.

I agree that the logic is convoluted and ridiculous. So how exactly is that scummy?

Check the join date. You think scum makes a bizarre case out on you when he's one of two on the wagon and needs 4 more to hop on or tries to make a passable case on the other developing wagon and hops on which makes 3 and only needs 3 more with Hoptic already saying I'm probably scum? If anything, S_S's vote on you is worse, because he voted you to kick off the day shading you for hammering before a claim when Tris was V/LA and we were probably too late for a different wagon anyway.

I really don't understand your SR of Norwegian here. The only way it makes sense is if you think he's trying to pull people off of me since I'm the counter-wagon at the moment. Do you think I'm scum with Norwegian? I think I'm having trouble with how him pushing you with bad logic means he's scum?

BP

You know that reasoning only works if you're town, right?

And I'm more focused on Norwegian because of his play yesterday, and the fact that he's lying about my reasons. If he was town, why would he be misrepresenting what I've been doing like that? It's not that he's just making a bad case, it's that misrepresenting and discrediting my posts on him from before. None of the things he was saying I was doing was for the reason I was doing it.

[NaCl]

NaCL’s response to my case is quite telling. A townie NaCL might have reacted like BP has done, pointing out flaws in my logic and perhaps being forgiving and assuming It is just as likely that i could be a townie on a bad track, instead he has become hyper aggressive and claims there is no way i am anything but scum. NaCL’s behaviour just doesn’t feel natural.

Your logic doesn't have flaws. It's misrepresenting what I'm doing. And you're still not actually acknowledging that and continuing to push on me regardless of what actual argument I'm making.

[NaCl]

@UiT

I looked over you again, and I think you're probably town. I had a solid townread D1, it weakened a bit after your D2 posts. But I agree, you're probably not scum. Still, I don't really see that it would clear Norwegian if you're town. Do you not think that he could push me if he's scum even if you're town?

Also, just to be clear, what do you think of his case on me? I think you believe that he's wrong, but not lying, and I want to know why you think he's able to make such a mistake and isn't going out of his way to misrepresent what I've said and done.

[NaCl]

@UiT

I looked over you again, and I think you're probably town. I had a solid townread D1, it weakened a bit after your D2 posts. But I agree, you're probably not scum. Still, I don't really see that it would clear Norwegian if you're town. Do you not think that he could push me if he's scum even if you're town?

Also, just to be clear, what do you think of his case on me? I think you believe that he's wrong, but not lying, and I want to know why you think he's able to make such a mistake and isn't going out of his way to misrepresent what I've said and done.

I re-read. You're right that his case on you is bad, and yeah probably a mis-rep. I can see why you would want to push there, and I don't have a good reason to say don't do it. But I'm not going to, because I think that both at that time and now, I'm an easier target and I think he'd have probably pushed me instead.

BP

I don't see why you have this idea that scum Norwegian would have to push you when he could be pushing me. Do you think that scum is pushing you already, or are the people who were after you town? Because it's entirely possible for different people on the scumteam to be pushing different townies.

Town seems quite dysfunctional right now. Does someone have a really good case on anybody so far?

Well, that's something we can both agree on.

I read through RCE again, and my main issue is that he wasn't really doing anything actively, seemed more like he was feeling out for a lynch. Which unfortunately isn't a very good case but I'm fine to vote him still.

As for Hoptic, some of his posts feel bad, like 168 is LAMIST, and he's making a bad excuse for shading me in 1114. Also, his voting record is kind of similar to your own, in that I also don't like it.

Do you think Hoptic's town, Norwegian? For that matter, do you think PlatinumPhoenix is town?

[NaCl]

Do you think Hoptic's town, Norwegian? For that matter, do you think PlatinumPhoenix is town?

I still feel like Phoenix is town.

Cool, this is the part I was most interested in. I know you put out that list of everyone's scumreads earlier, but only had me and UiT there for you.

If you think Phoenix is town, who do you think were the scum on the wagon? Or do you think they were all town?

[NaCl]

If you think Phoenix is town, who do you think were the scum on the wagon? Or do you think they were all town?

Assuming town!phoneix= true, it doesn't seem likely that all votes on him would be town.

Platinum Phoenix (5) L-2~ PenguinPower, Hoptic, norwegianboyEE, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma

Hoptic got on as the second vote, then eventually unvoted before Vorkuta's next vote count. Assuming Fake-PP is town, then that would be a bit suspicious. RCE could be suspicious as well.
Then again, this is all just speculation. Barring any flips we can't know for sure.

I mean, I agree that it could be suspicious. But I'm interested in knowing what you think is suspicious. Do you not have a stance on this?

[NaCl]

Why are we analyzing an unflipped wagon as a town flip?

I'm not really doing that. I just figured that since Norwegian thought Fake-PP was town, I could get his opinion on the wagon based on that assumption.

[NaCl]

I don't know that he's town. I'm still kind of townleaning him from yesterday's wagon, because I think scum was on it early. I'll have to look back and see if it could be someone bussing.

[NaCl]

I mean - that's what I'm asking. Why was scum on it early for it to fall apart at EOD onto a town wagon?

That is a good point. I kind of felt like it wasn't getting any traction after a while and they could have switched to Tris to get something through (this would probably point to RCE scum).

Do you think scum was on it early? Seems like you disagree with me. To me, it felt like it grew a bit too quickly for it to be natural.

[NaCl]

@UiT

I looked over you again, and I think you're probably town. I had a solid townread D1, it weakened a bit after your D2 posts. But I agree, you're probably not scum. Still, I don't really see that it would clear Norwegian if you're town. Do you not think that he could push me if he's scum even if you're town?

Also, just to be clear, what do you think of his case on me? I think you believe that he's wrong, but not lying, and I want to know why you think he's able to make such a mistake and isn't going out of his way to misrepresent what I've said and done.

I re-read. You're right that his case on you is bad, and yeah probably a mis-rep. I can see why you would want to push there, and I don't have a good reason to say don't do it. But I'm not going to, because I think that both at that time and now, I'm an easier target and I think he'd have probably pushed me instead.

BP

I don't see why you have this idea that scum Norwegian would have to push you when he could be pushing me. Do you think that scum is pushing you already, or are the people who were after you town? Because it's entirely possible for different people on the scumteam to be pushing different townies.

In response to your first point, I'm an idiot and didn't even consider that possibility.

BP

Well, you might not be wrong, though. Because it's possible for Norwegian to be town, I'm just not really sure why he'd make a case like that on me if he is. Of course, I can't just go and ask him if he's lying about me. And I don't know why he doesn't feel like he's trying to push his scumreads either.

Norwegian, why did you move to Fake-PP rather than trying to push for my lynch some more?

I mean - that's what I'm asking. Why was scum on it early for it to fall apart at EOD onto a town wagon?

That is a good point. I kind of felt like it wasn't getting any traction after a while and they could have switched to Tris to get something through (this would probably point to RCE scum).

Do you think scum was on it early? Seems like you disagree with me. To me, it felt like it grew a bit too quickly for it to be natural.

It grew to quick for it to be natural? When did it get to the danger zone? What happened when it approached EOD?

Yes, I disagree with you. No, I won't feed you answers.

My alarm was that it suddenly got 3 votes on it very quickly one after the other (Well 4, but Vorkuta got on and back off partway through). As for getting near the end, it felt like it wasn't really moving past a point after RCE got on the wagon and others started to get off.

Looking back at the vote counts, I think that if Fake-PP is scum, Hoptic is scum with him. Norwegian and UiT would be likely town. If he's town, RCE is probably scum.

[NaCl]

Eh, I'm kind of changing my mind on Norwegian now, starting to have doubts.

Because if he's scum and you're town, why would he get back on the wagon? I mean, he didn't give a reason...let's see, if you're scum then it's still RCE who's one of your scumbuddies.

But if you're town, does scum need to push you up here right now, with so much time remaining on the clock? I would think they could be more cautious...if a counterwagon isn't forming, what would their advantage be to push you up so early?

Ugh, but now I'm having second thoughts. Because there is scum on the wagon if you're town. And Norwegian is my highest suspect on that. Could be green-PP.

S_S hasn't really given a reason, but the point about Beta Sapphire is something. And as for UiT, I agree with what RCE said earlier, that he could have gone after you yesterday instead.

[NaCl]

We don't have unclaimed PRs, I think. I'm pretty sure we only have 6 points of PR, since scum have 3.

Spoiler: VCs

Vorkuta's 100% guaranteed to be correct or your money back VC
Edition #3- back due to popular request
Just stole this from Baezu- only 2 changes since then

Platinum Phoenix

(5) L-2~

PenguinPower, Hoptic,

norwegianboyEE

, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma

benhalkum

(1) ~

Unstuck in Time

RCEnigma (1) ~

Beta Sapphire

norwegianboyEE

(1) ~

NaCl

S_S

(1) ~

Tris

NaCl (1) ~

Vorkuta

Not Voting (3) ~

Something_Smart

,

benhalkum

,

Platinum Phoenix

,

tris

(7) LYNCH ~

Gamma Emerald,

norwegianboyEE

,

Platinum Phoenix

, Hoptic,

benhalkum

, Unstuck in Time, NaCl

Platinum Phoenix

(2) ~

PenguinPower,

tris

Beta Sapphire

(1) ~

RCEnigma

RCEnigma (1) ~

Beta Sapphire

Vorkuta (1) ~

Something_Smart

Not Voting (1) ~

Vorkuta

Platinum Phoenix

(6) LYNCH ~

Unstuck in Time,

Something_Smart

, PenguinPower,

norwegianboyEE

, RCEnigma, Gamma Emerald

NaCl (2) ~

Hoptic, Vorkuta

Unstuck in Time (1) ~

Platinum Phoenix

norwegianboyEE

(1) ~

NaCl

I'd originally been thinking that RCE could have been scum with Fake-PP, which was why he was getting on the wagon late both times, but that can't be the case now. He's still likely scum, though. I think it's likely that the wagon stalled on D1 because all the scum were on it, but it's also possible that someone hanging off it was being cautious.

I'm still seeing RCE and Hoptic as my main suspects.

[NaCl]

Let's see.

There's at least 1 scum in PP/Hoptic. RCE is also most likely scum. I'm not really sure about the other one, but I agree with the Gamma townread.

PP/Hoptic is because the D1 Fake-PP wagon is pretty much guaranteed to be scum-driven at this point. I'm tending towards Hoptic because I don't think PP would say what he did in 1836 if he was scum.

RCE is scum because he's been hopping on the middle of the Fake-PP wagons and he was Beta Sapphire's top suspect.

I'm still supporting RCE>Hoptic right now.

[NaCl]

Vorkuta, I see what you're doing, but it's pointless. If one scum knows, they'll all know.

We're all VT.

[NaCl]

Yeah, this is kind of slow.

UiT, can you sell me on why PP is town?

And Vorkuta, I would like to hear your thoughts on who's what.

Baezu, I think Hoptic is due for a prod.

[NaCl]

Site should be fine now.

Didn't you just say you had me as town?

I think you're probably town, but that there's scum between you and Hoptic. I would like to be more sure of that.

[NaCl]

Ugh, this is not a good gamestate. We need more talking (which I'm very much guilty of not helping with).

I'm tired now, but I'll go take a look at people again in about 12 hours.

But if anyone disagrees with RCE or Hoptic, care to discuss?

[NaCl]

@Vorkuta
I guess, although if you're disagreeing with me, I don't see why we can't talk it out no. But yeah, I guess if it's just "I generally agree with this", there's not much else to say.

Anyways, I'm most interested in the D1 wagon on Fake-PP and the following collapse onto Tris. I think the key question is determining if scum didn't kill him, or if they couldn't kill him.

D1 Fake-PP Wagon
-I didn't like Hoptic's entry on the wagon. It felt like he was trying to buddy up to Ben at the same time. Also, he was townreading Fake-PP just 2 posts before voting him.
Let's consider a few teams when Fake-PP was at L-2:
-RCE/Hoptic/PP: I don't really think this is it, but it could explain why the wagon collapsed.
-RCE/Hoptic/UiT: Fake-PP was at L-2, and I had no interest in voting him. Both UiT and Vorkuta were scumreading him, but focused elsewhere. The wagon diminished, then reformed to put Fake-PP to L-1, getting Tris and UiT to vote. This would put them in a position where no off-wagon scum would have been able to hammer, if this is the team.
-RCE/Hoptic/Vorkuta: I don't really see why Vorkuta wouldn't have hammered Fake-PP, apart from getting town cred. But he seemed to be suspicious of him around that time, so I don't think it would have been too much of a stretch to defend. Similar reasons for why Gamma's unlikely to be scum.
-Teams with UiT/Vorkuta/???: I don't really see why that the Fake-PP wagon wouldn't have gone through, either when he was at L-2 or L-1 soon after.
-Teams with PP and one of not RCE or Hoptic: I haven't really put as much thought into these, but I guess it's possible that this would lead to scum being cautious and preferring a push on someone else.

Okay, now I'm kind of worried about misdiagnosing why Fake-PP wasn't lynched. Because it's possible that they weren't able to, and that would make finding scum to be pretty easy (RCE+Hoptic+PP/UiT). But if they weren't going to in order to look town, or push back on him later, then it's possible that there was one scum who was off-wagon when PP was at L-1. The following wagon also went on Tris rather than RCE, but if RCE's not scum, then that would mean scum was in a position where they would have been fine regardless of who got lynched, and would have then been more careful.

My thoughts are probably a jumbled mess, sorry.

[NaCl]

Why are you avoiding talking about the actual PP lynch instead of the d1 part?

-Hop

I think that was more relevant for determining who scum were rather than how things were on D2.

I have a stance on Asgard's vote, which is that I don't think he's putting enough effort behind it. And I didn't mention you because you voted way earlier, aren't quite in the same shift from Ben->fake-PP, and I haven't checked over your reasoning.

Also, I'm not townreading Hoptic anymore. I initially believed the blind thing, and thought that if he was scum he would understand how Zombie works. But I missed the part where he said it was a joke until just earlier. Now I actually need to read his posts rather than putting him in a pile in my mind and not worrying about him.

why would him being blind lead you to townread him?

Because of his inability to understand the Zombie role. His reason behind that was that he was blind, and I figured that if he was scum, his partners would have explained it to him seeing as they picked Zombie.

This sounds like an excuse to change your read more than anything.

-Hop

I have a stance on Asgard's vote, which is that I don't think he's putting enough effort behind it. And I didn't mention you because you voted way earlier, aren't quite in the same shift from Ben->fake-PP, and I haven't checked over your reasoning.

Also, I'm not townreading Hoptic anymore. I initially believed the blind thing, and thought that if he was scum he would understand how Zombie works. But I missed the part where he said it was a joke until just earlier. Now I actually need to read his posts rather than putting him in a pile in my mind and not worrying about him.

I'm not sure scum would use logic as ridiculous as the second paragraph here. This is genuine.

Hoptic, why did you change your mind on that post?

[NaCl]

He didn't? His vote was for Gamma.

[NaCl]

Sorry, I've been a bit sick for the last couple of days. Not like much has happened, anyways.

Can't we still try to get a lynch, though? Unless the entire scumteam wants to bet that a replacement won't show up or something, they'd have to bus, right?

@Baezu, will the timer be frozen or extended, since there's still no replacement?

[NaCl]

Yeah. Well, I'm just going to wait for Titus to see if she's found anything. Because I'm still seeing the same things as before.

[NaCl]

unvote now

If he's town (and you're an idiot townie), scum can quickhammer right now
if he's scum, even if we get all townies sheeping you, we won't get a majority without gamma slot or a bus

Sorry, I've been a bit sick for the last couple of days. Not like much has happened, anyways.

Can't we still try to get a lynch, though? Unless the entire scumteam wants to bet that a replacement won't show up or something, they'd have to bus, right?

@Baezu, will the timer be frozen or extended, since there's still no replacement?

Slightly concerned this is a scumslip.

Brief skim of vork / nacl interactions at lunch and I don't think I was a fan. I'll look more later.

I'm not really sure where you thought I wasn't townreading Gamma. I didn't really put it front and center, but I had been townreading him in my last few posts and he was my strongest townread.

Apparently the IP at my uni/work is blacklisted which kind of sucks- limits my ability to actually post to like 2 nights a week at best.

I sometimes get the same problem. I get around it using Tor when it happens, but a proxy or VPN should probably work.


11 hours left...
VOTE: RCEnigma

[NaCl]

Yeah, alright. I'll be around for later, so in either case it's no big deal.

UNVOTE:

[NaCl]

Yeah, okay.

So Hoptic is town, because...
1. RCE is still my top suspect.
2. One of Vorkuta and Titus is scum and I'm thinking it's more likely Vorkuta right now.
3. I don't see scum Hoptic saying 1156 if he's with RCE.

Although I don't see why there's a point in wanting to go after Penguin first if RCE flips scum, I'd rather do the next lynch in Vorkuta/Titus.

[NaCl]

Er, for 3, he's not saying 1156 if he's with RCE and Vorkuta, rather.

[NaCl]

I'm looking through all of the major events and considering the possible teams, I'll have a fuller post in a bit.

Right now, if it's RCE and Vorkuta, then I think it's more likely for PP to be the scum, because of the quick wagon on Fake-PP on D1.

Although, if it is Vork+Gamma as 2 scums, what is Titus's incentive to vote for Vorkuta at this state? It only confirms one of them as scum, right?

[NaCl]

RCE + Vorkuta + PP

: I think this is the most likely option.

RCE + Vorkuta + UiT

: Possible.

RCE + Vorkuta + Titus

: I don't see why Titus would vote for Vorkuta at this state if this is the team.

RCE + Titus + PP

: I don't think this team would have killed Beta Sapphire N1.

RCE + Titus + UiT

: This is possible, I guess? But I'm finding it kind of unlikely. My main hangup is I don't see why scum Titus would vote Vorkuta right now in this scenario.

UiT + Vorkuta + PP

: I voted for RCE and both these guys posted after me, they could have hammered but didn't.

UiT + Titus + PP

: This team just plain wouldn't do a N1 kill on Beta Sapphire.

Hoptic + UiT + Titus

: Wouldn't kill Beta Sapphire.

Hoptic + UiT + Vorkuta

: Kind of complicated, but I'm thinking that if Vorkuta is scum, RCE must also be scum, so nah.

Hoptic + RCE + Titus/Vorkuta

: Nah, I just don't think so.

Right now, I'm thinking it's RCE + Vorkuta + (PP/UiT) as the most likely scenario. I don't really know why scum Titus would be voting Vorkuta in this scenario...unless there's some way where she didn't read or it's safer than taking a stance?

So far I've been looking at reasons to exclude teams, I'll need to look back and see what's more likely, but I think PP is more likely than UiT right now.

Hoptic, why is your way of looking at things different from mine? I'm not sure where the Titus/PP option is from.

[NaCl]

I almost didn't make it in time.

VOTE: RCEnigma

[NaCl]

Wait, that wasn't a hammer.

Hoptic, um...are you around to switch to Vorkuta? Because if PP is scum, and Titus is town, then he can just not show up, and I think we lose?

I haven't ever seen this come up, but do mods ever extend the deadline after the deadline has passed?

[NaCl]

Well, I really hope there's a retroactive deadline extension, because otherwise...

[NaCl]

I am thoroughly confused, but I suspect it means that RCE is scum? Because everyone's still claiming they're town, so it's possible(?) the game's not over.

And if UiT's not the one joking around here, then it has to be RCE scum, right? Otherwise, why wouldn't scum hammer earlier on? Unless somehow Titus was scum and didn't read their PT or something.

[NaCl]

No, if RCE is scum, it has to be Vorkuta, right? I think PP would be the other, but I'm less sure on that.

Because he literally voted one minute after the deadline, I was checking. Which sounds a bit too convenient.

[NaCl]

Hi i was bad

Hi bad, I'm NaCl.

I was scum, along with

Spoiler:

Vorkuta and RCE

I'm so amazed I didn't get shot by Norwegian, especially after I continued to pick a fight after already knowing you were the vig.

[NaCl]

I'm not sure. We might have let RCE come back to avoid killing someone and reducing the chances (he was Zombie). I think I would have wanted to keep you around for another day to see how you'd feel on Penguin, and then either kill you or Titus if Vorkuta was lynched.

I'm okay with releasing it, not sure if it's possible or not. I'd also like to see the dead thread.

[NaCl]

Oh, right, also I should say sorry to my partners for being the idiot who agreed with zombie.

It pretty much went like this:
"We should pick zombie for the mind games"
Me: "I don't know, I want to be safe and pick Rolecop+Something"
Baezu: "Rules have changed, things are updated now."
Me: "Oh, I'll go and completely not notice that town knows there will be a zombie, so I guess it's better now, since it's cheap. Let's go!"

Fortunately it didn't wind up mattering too much, since we got the other PRs down quick.

[NaCl]

We were so close, but there was like only an hour between when PP voted Gamma and when he unvoted, so we couldn't get a hammer during that time.

[NaCl]

I actually did miss the whole part about it being a joke until someone pointed it out later (I think that was Norwegian).

[NaCl]

Yeah, I was kind of a bit in favour of killing you over BS, but we wound up going after Beta in the end.

Fortunately enough, my teammates both agreed that Norwegian should be the Night 1 investigation target, so they managed to direct me really successfully there.

[NaCl]

You might have to PM the listmod, I think. I doubt T-Bone looks at every page of every game in the list, but what do I know?

Unless you want me to go and post screenshots of each page.

[NaCl]

I can't believe I did this.

https://imgur.com/a/o1XjpBM