Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[Spangled]

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Dude, he did two things: greet the thread as he literally almost always does, and agreed with someone who disagreed with you... OMGUS, or just a lack of willingness to meta someone? A combination, perchance?

[Spangled]

Espresso feeling towniest so far from tone, but pretty sure that’s not hard on page 2.

[Spangled]

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

Why is defensive scum-indicative, necessarily? Never actually had someone explain this to me.

[Spangled]

HEAL: Alchemist, RC most awesomest, NC 39, Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum

That’s myself plus the 3 slots I believe to be the strongest slots coming into the game plus Espresso since I liked their entrance.

I think the Coalition should be the 5 strongest/Towniest players not just for the obvious reasons of the D1 wincon but also as a weak investigational tool if it fails - if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.

is it considered a deep wolf if they're just in the top 5 town reads?

I would think so. Scum just need three mislynches to win, and can kill off others in the top 5.

[Spangled]

HEAL: Alchemist, RC most awesomest, NC 39, Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum

That’s myself plus the 3 slots I believe to be the strongest slots coming into the game plus Espresso since I liked their entrance.

I think the Coalition should be the 5 strongest/Towniest players not just for the obvious reasons of the D1 wincon but also as a weak investigational tool if it fails - if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.

Can we do the ‘try and win by Coalition’ thing first, and

then

the ‘use-information-on-a-fail’ thing afterwards,

if

we fail, not just the ‘let’s-find-out-if-there’s-a-deepwolf’ thing straight up?

[Spangled]

Hey, Hectic, what made you decide on that specific coalition to vote for?
Why me, why NC 39, etc.?

[Spangled]

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

Why is defensive scum-indicative, necessarily? Never actually had someone explain this to me.

At least as I see it, scum are more concern about keeping themselves alive so they respond to pressure more defensively.

Fair enough; makes sense. Really not sure it’s enough to call LUV scum over, but you do you, I guess.

Do you have any reads yet Gamma?

[Spangled]

this looks like fun

HEAL: Hectic, NC 39, Spangled, Alchemist, Espresso

VOTE: RC most awesomest

i can provide a few walls later if people doubt these reads

can I, without giving a long winded explanation of why these kinds of posts even made ironically throw me off and make me dislike the game, ask everyone who wants to win as town to not do this

A-fucking-men!

this is pretty yuck.

What about it?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Dude, he did two things: greet the thread as he literally almost always does, and agreed with someone who disagreed with you... OMGUS, or just a lack of willingness to meta someone? A combination, perchance?

him greeting the thread in null. Why do you feel like sticking up for the guy?

Aye, ‘tis null. Exactly. But Hectic, to me, was making out that it was scummy... and I disagreed... and told him so...
I imagine you try and call people out on things you disagree with — I like to do that too.

[Spangled]

so since i like Espresso and

Spangled

so far:

y?


HEAL: NC 39

HURT: Spangeled

Making a nice and pointed statement there.

@Gamma
Was people adding themselves to their own coalitions helpful and/or useful in that D1 town-win game?

[Spangled]

i'm usually too on edge when i'm scum so i cant spam posts like i usually do
its almost like a trust tell at this point i really need to work on it

Was this supposed to go in the scum PT, or

[Spangled]

[/color]HEAL: Gamma

The Gamma v LUV disagreement looks genuine + Gamma came out of it looking more town.

HEAL: Spangled

Liking Spangled's posting style thus far. I'm not yet certain if the wide coalition read on Spangled is a good or bad thing, but I'm treating it as a good thing for now.

I’ve seen UTRs be scum, but the biggest, most-AI thing is (in my limited experience) why they end up being UTRed. I don’t know how many people here know emps, but he’s been UTRed up until around EoD2 as scum before, mostly due to tone, and a sheer number of posts, most of which were actually pretty contentless, but seemed helpful.
Townreads everyone agrees on win games, though, especially this one.

Also, about the Gamma v LUV thing, I think Gamma came out of it

somewhat

towny, but what did you think about LUV? Did you agree with Gamma on his defensiveness?

[Spangled]

@Alchemist
Got any reads yet?

[Spangled]

so since i like Espresso and

Spangled

so far:

y?


HEAL: NC 39

HURT: Spangeled

Making a nice and pointed statement there.

@Gamma
Was people adding themselves to their own coalitions helpful and/or useful in that D1 town-win game?

Yes.

I have to admit, not really the answer I was expecting. Why, though?

[Spangled]

@Clemency
Any reads yet?

[Spangled]

what's a UTR? ultra townread?

A UTR is a universal townread.

[Spangled]

@Alchemist, you haven't updated your coalition in a while. Is it still reflective of your current stance?

If yes, can you tell me a bit more about your NC and RCMA reads?

I'm liking Hectic's content and reads, but the difference in his playstyle is really nagging at me. It's almost like he's too good to be true now that he's playing normally, and I'm seeing that as a possible scum tactic.

@anyone else who has played with him, what are your thoughts on his behaviour? Do you think the change in his posting style is AI? Why/why not?

He has played every game differently, as far as I’m aware, from my occasional readings of newbie games, each with a different gimmick. It is true that he lacks a gimmick this time... but I don’t know if he’s been scum before or anything about that so...

[Spangled]

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

Whoops, ignore that quote up the top.

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

Why would you take out NC and Gamma? Is it just the lack of a townread, or is there a more substantial reason?

[Spangled]

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

Whoops, ignore that quote up the top.

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

Why would you take out NC and Gamma? Is it just the lack of a townread, or is there a more substantial reason?

Oh wow I did it again

[Spangled]

Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.

It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.

I don’t think he’s trying not to engage with you as hard as you think; if you give him time and ask him good, pointed questions, rather than deciding as the be-all and end-all on page 7 that he’s probably scum choosing to ignore larger meta in favour of his own experience of your meta — which people are going to naturally default to, especially if they haven’t actually properly meta’d you — we won’t get any kind of consensus on him for a long time, and it will probably be impossible to do so.

[Spangled]

@LUV
Any reads yet?

[Spangled]

if you're ignoring me in forming a read on our slot then what you're doing is focusing on things you find outrageous or things you disagree with and not actually looking for scummy play, and you should take a moment to do some self-reflection on that.

-nsg

[...]
RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

I was hoping you'd have a bit more to substantiate the read at this point, as scum!nsg could very easily post more. What's your read on the RC head*?

*Note - I find it hard to read hydras. Is it better practice to split the read by head and consolidate later, or approach the read in a holistic manner from the outset?

12 seemed like a typical TownRC post to me but not definitely.

Most people go by reading individual heads if they knows one of the heads well.

since you seem to have experience with town!RC, what about 145 and 149?

Fine.

HURT: NC 39, Gamma Emerald

why those two in particular out of your starting 5?

His whole thought process on EP feels like Town RC.

2nd part has been answered in an earlier post.

But do you agree with the thought process?

[Spangled]

Spoiler: A bit of a case on me

RC scumread spangled before i did, but i've come around to see where he's coming from. take a look at spangled's pop-in here:

Spoiler:

what's a UTR? ultra townread?

A UTR is a universal townread.

@Alchemist, you haven't updated your coalition in a while. Is it still reflective of your current stance?

If yes, can you tell me a bit more about your NC and RCMA reads?

I'm liking Hectic's content and reads, but the difference in his playstyle is really nagging at me. It's almost like he's too good to be true now that he's playing normally, and I'm seeing that as a possible scum tactic.

@anyone else who has played with him, what are your thoughts on his behaviour? Do you think the change in his posting style is AI? Why/why not?

He has played every game differently, as far as I’m aware, from my occasional readings of newbie games, each with a different gimmick. It is true that he lacks a gimmick this time... but I don’t know if he’s been scum before or anything about that so...

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

Whoops, ignore that quote up the top.

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

Why would you take out NC and Gamma? Is it just the lack of a townread, or is there a more substantial reason?

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

Whoops, ignore that quote up the top.

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

Why would you take out NC and Gamma? Is it just the lack of a townread, or is there a more substantial reason?

Oh wow I did it again

i don't think there's any actual sorting or even attempt at game-solving in those posts (no offense to spangled). rather, it seems to me like going through posts and just finding things to respond to, perhaps one of the most consistently scum-indicative tells that i've ever encountered. if you believe that our slot has few reads, we should still look like a library compared to spangled's ISO.

here's another thing about me (in addition to the hanging back) that i mentioned in the last coalition setup i completed – i dislike it when people ask the generic question "what are your reads" without any seeming deeper purpose. and when you actually look through spangled's iso – i mean

actually really read it

– i noticed that there really wasn't much of any solving that i could see beyond that generic question, and i also noticed how often it came up.

Spoiler:

Do you have any reads yet Gamma?

@Alchemist
Got any reads yet?

@Clemency
Any reads yet?

@LUV
Any reads yet?

-nsg

Okay, a few things to talk about here... I can kinda see where you’re coming from as regarding me finding things to respond to, but not responding to them very meaningfully.
Reading my ISO, I can see that. I tend not be very good at forming reads or putting them out there, but I like to think that I do, eventually, find scum with them. I do think I’ve occasionally expressed stances on certain topics... but if you’d like what I think I have at least hinted at summarised, here are some things I can remember off the top of my head:
I reckon RCMA’s town; that meta seems very conclusive as regards, at the very least, nsg’s alignment
I feel like EP is town; so far his reads have seemed genuine and fairly well thought out.
Gamma, actually, doesn’t really feel the same to me as the last game we were in; tonally they actually feel a bit weirdly different from how I remember them.
Hectic being unhectic — I don’t feel like it’s conclusive, but I feel like it’s a kind of point that would be a clincher in a much larger case against them. Their answer to that question about their un-hectic-ness felt a little off to me, but I really don’t know; I don’t have any past experiences of their tone and so I’m hesitant to commit to that.

As as regard that rather generic question I keep on asking — I would normally really not ask it that much, but I keep getting very non-commital or meaningless answers to those questions — Clemency’s in 121 is the only one I can remember, but I’m pretty sure there have been other answers that haven’t let me see get any kind of glimpse into the game states or any associatives etc., like I’ve used them fairly well in some newbie games.

[Spangled]

Something went weird there; sorry, but I think y’all will figure it out.

As regards me being ‘incredibly easy to townread’...
I have, before now, kind of instinctively recoiled from people who self-meta, but I think I see the usefulness of it now, so I’m going to try and use it.
My scum game sucks. Very, very badly. I’ve had two scumgames — first one, I was enormously passive all of D1, and in D2 MyLo (because of a modkill) counterclaimed JK against a cop who had a red on my partner. We lost. Now this was about six months ago, but it’s still valuable meta.
Second game — most recent game — I immediately drew attention to myself with some wolfy RQS questions, and then reacted extremely defensively, digging myself into a hole for the rest of D1. I ended up lynched, and my partner was lynched D2, largely on the strength of my interactions with them, and the fact that there were some very clever masons.

For me to jump so easily from that extraordinary defensiveness to being ‘incredibly easy to townread’... I really can’t see that happening.
First one: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=7959
Second one: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=80577

[Spangled]

this game is 100% a loss if we don't win d1. there is no chance that town doesn't end up turning on us if the coalition fails. we can't afford to have to use precious hours arguing

You are the widest townread right now, mostly for meta that is pretty convincing, but not for nothing besides that. We’re not going to lose if we don’t win D1... plenty of towns win 9p mountainous, and we have extra info.

[Spangled]

Or will have extra info even if our coalition isn’t right, whoops.

Also, Clemency, your remark about freezing up as scum seems remarkably similar to what you’re doing here... anything you’d like to give a perspective on, any reads, etc?

Anything

, no matter how little?

[Spangled]

Now I think I’m just spamming out thoughts, but I felt the need to respond to that question about what a UTR was because it was being asked because of somewhere I had used the acronym. I responded to it without fully reading all of what had occurred while I’d been offline, so I didn’t see others’ responses to it. I really don’t see why you bring it up, Hectic.

[Spangled]

VC 1.07 Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest EspressoPatronum (3): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Spangled Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, RC most awesomest NC 39 (2): NC 39, RC most awesomest RC most awesomest (2): RC most awesomest, Alchemist21 Clemency (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Hectic, Gamma Emerald Spangled (1): RC most awesomest Not Voting (6): EspressoPatronum, NC 39, Clemency, Lil Uzi Vert, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

Uh... Sky, that VC reckons that day 1 ends in 7 and a half days.

[Spangled]

VC 1.07 Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest EspressoPatronum (3): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Spangled Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, RC most awesomest NC 39 (2): NC 39, RC most awesomest RC most awesomest (2): RC most awesomest, Alchemist21 Clemency (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Hectic, Gamma Emerald Spangled (1): RC most awesomest Not Voting (6): EspressoPatronum, NC 39, Clemency, Lil Uzi Vert, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

Uh... Sky, that VC reckons that day 1 ends in 7 and a half days.

Sorry; missed the post informing us that we had four more days than before.

[Spangled]

Gamma, actually, doesn’t really feel the same to me as the last game we were in; tonally they actually feel a bit weirdly different from how I remember them.

Want mr to talk about this, because I can def talk about it and explain what is different

Yes, I would.

[Spangled]

i think it's a significant mistake for anyone to have spangled in their coalition right now and i feel like doing so is literally making the classic mistake that loses towns games: overlooking the silently scummy people coasting by in favor of focusing on the outrageous or distracting things.

I would like to offer an opinion, here — that

maybe

some of the fairly inactive people could be scum here, doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing; coasting, hoping I get lynched today and generally sheeping you, hiding behind the reasoning of how you’re ‘just that awesomely good’, and then maybe letting you lynch EP, and then shooting you N2 once you’ve served your purpose. Or maybe shooting you N1 if Coffeelad is, actually, scum, or if you change your mind or something, I don’t know.
This is not me saying you’re bad at the game, either RC or nsg — but scum can use people whose reads are pointed in the wrong direction.

[Spangled]

Actually, there’s another good reason that RCMA’s probably town — the general ‘yeah, they’re town’ sort of

feeling

in the air; it’s the kind of read scum can just sheep because it has unanimously become consensus, if that makes sense.
UTRs on scum tend to be a little different, I think, although I really couldn’t tell you how — it’s just a different feeling that there would be around the gamestate, I think.

[Spangled]

i think it's a significant mistake for anyone to have spangled in their coalition right now and i feel like doing so is literally making the classic mistake that loses towns games: overlooking the silently scummy people coasting by in favor of focusing on the outrageous or distracting things.

and this isn't meant as a criticism of anyone – it took RC mentioning a scumread on spangled for me to actually read his ISO in a critical manner and realize that i was being lazy to just write him off as town. i think spangled as he's played so far is an incredibly easy person to townread: he's fairly active, he's responding to discussions in a fairly reasonable manner and he's asking people questions. it's just that when you look closer, i think it becomes apparent that everything he's doing makes a lot of sense coming from the perspective of scum!spangled.

there have been no controversial stances from him, and indeed seemingly no strong stances whatsoever. most of his responses are reasonable, yes – but none of them offer any insight into his position as someone uninformed of everyone else's alignment. in fact, i'd say it's quite the opposite:

Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.

It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.

I don’t think he’s trying not to engage with you as hard as you think; if you give him time and ask him good, pointed questions, rather than deciding as the be-all and end-all on page 7 that he’s probably scum choosing to ignore larger meta in favour of his own experience of your meta — which people are going to naturally default to, especially if they haven’t actually properly meta’d you — we won’t get any kind of consensus on him for a long time, and it will probably be impossible to do so.

if you look at this quote, i think it's not a stretch at all to see it as someone who wants to contribute to a discussion in a positive manner but who has no personal stake in the meaning of the discussion (given that they already know the answer). someone who wants to be seen saying something, but who doesn't particularly care about what the other people are saying and what it means about

them

.

(basically this is a long version of saying that it kind of reminds me of TMI, although not in the scumslip sense)

i mean, where's the comment about what RC's reaction means for his alignment? where's the "i wonder if scum!RC would say this about EP"? where's the "EP has been playing towny this entire game, he's not trying to discredit you"? there's no comment about anyone's alignment at all, just a comment that RC's being unproductive and that "we won't get any kind of consensus".


-nsg

I do think RC was being unproductive, indeed counterproductive, with that line of thought — again, I didn’t see EP gunning for an RCMA lynch in a way I thought scummy.

I would disagree about ‘having no personal stake’ in the discussion; I very clearly had a stake in the discussion or I would not have asked RC to stop hounding EP in the way they were. If I were scum, I would have no reason to want that to stop; I would make no comment, indeed have no reason to want to appear to be contributing to the discussion in a positive manner — after all, there were (and are) a few people pretty much flat out ignoring this particular discussion (Alchemist being, I think, the best example).

TL;DR: me!scum want counterproductive, but me!town want no counterproductive. other scum ignore counterproductive; they not make comment

[Spangled]

I would disagree about ‘having no personal stake’ in the discussion; I very clearly had a stake in the discussion or I would not have asked RC to stop hounding EP in the way they were. If I were scum, I would have no reason to want that to stop; I would make no comment, indeed have no reason to want to appear to be contributing to the discussion in a positive manner — after all, there were (and are) a few people pretty much flat out ignoring this particular discussion (Alchemist being, I think, the best example).

TL;DR: me!scum want counterproductive, but me!town want no counterproductive. other scum ignore counterproductive; they not make comment

i disagree – i think that whatever benefit to town could potentially arise out of your attempt to prevent something seen as counterproductive, the gains you would make as scum in appearing to be playing pro-town would outweigh them. perhaps especially so in a setup like this where being townread is of the upmost importance, rather than just going under the radar.

-nsg

Fair enough; attempting conciliation between two people — or whatever it was that I was doing; that description is close enough — could be an action taken by scum. But here is my question to you — how much more likely do you think that it comes from scum than town, and can you see how it

might

come from town?

[Spangled]

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

I don’t really like this... applying pressure is almost always an action town takes...
Or was it how he applied pressure that you didn’t like?

[Spangled]

I would like to offer an opinion, here — that maybe some of the fairly inactive people could be scum here, doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing; coasting, hoping I get lynched today and generally sheeping you, hiding behind the reasoning of how you’re ‘just that awesomely good’, and then maybe letting you lynch EP, and then shooting you N2 once you’ve served your purpose. Or maybe shooting you N1 if Coffeelad is, actually, scum, or if you change your mind or something, I don’t know.
This is not me saying you’re bad at the game, either RC or nsg — but scum can use people whose reads are pointed in the wrong direction.

inactive scum lose day one in this setup, if past results are in any way indicative of the future.

i'm not sure i understand what exactly you're trying to impart upon me here? mind elaborating?

-nsg

Not really sure what I was trying to say there in its’ entirety, actually — that was a ‘I should have been asleep’ kind of post.
But the core of it is that there are, what, three inactive people — none of whom I’d really trust in a coalition, just because of their inactivity; they haven’t posted enough for any kind of read. In this case, especially with RCMA and EP and me and RCMA going at each other hammer and tongs, if we (or one of us) is not scum, then there

are

scum who feel that they are just fine being inactive and sheeping you.

And can you see a me/EP scumteam?

[Spangled]

I chose not to post my 1500 word rant.

please do

I have to say you’ve been pinging me this whole game. What makes Spangled a good vote in your eyes? How come you seemingly forgot about voting for anyone else this whole time?

i agreed with nsg's case on Spangled, just forgot to change my vote i guess

i've changed my mind on Spangled again, went through some previous games of his looking for that generic "any reads" question in particular

as an innocent child, couple of times:

Hey, FF, any reads to throw out at the moment?

Hey Gamma, any reads to share?

as mafia roleblocker in a newbie game, 0 times

as vanilla town in a newbie game, once:

viewtopic.php?p=11071856#p11071856

as vanilla town in a newbie game, kind of once:

viewtopic.php?p=11083102#p11083102

as a mafia goon in a newbie game, 0 times

not sure if that was worth it, but the fact he's never thrown the question out as scum does say something, and i did notice while control-Fing through that he's a lot more prone to ask people about their thoughts/reads in his town games over his scum games, though the questions are usually more specific. who knows though, maybe's he replicating what he does in his town games as scum here, and he's overdoing it with that generic question since it is way more prominent here than any of his other town games
i like his responses to nsg's case though anyway

HURT: Gamma
HEAL: Spangled

VOTE: Alchemist

Yeah, I’ve tended to ask more specific questions because there have generally been more specific things to ask

about

; I’ve been asking those generic questions to fairly inactive or reticent players (Clemency and Alchemist come to mind) in an effort to get them to make pretty much any content, or give us assocs.

[Spangled]

Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?

i think my read is RCMA>Espresso>Spangled>NC 39>Gamma>Clemency/LUV>Alchemist

i know people will question my Alchemist vote, more of a gutread than anything, i'll go looking for actual reasons tomorrow, it's way too late right now

Thanks for this, Hectic.

I'm not sure I'm on board with Alchemist being on the lowest rung, but I think a scum gutread on him is reasonable given his more reactive style.

Looking forward to hearing more about it tomorrow.

If you’re not on board with Alchemist on the lowest rung (that is to say, for the lynch), who are you on board (or most on board) with lynching?

[Spangled]

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

I don’t really like this... applying pressure is almost always an action town takes...
Or was it how he applied pressure that you didn’t like?

CLEARLY.

CLEARLY

.

this is something scum never do.

of course, you have the "almost always" defense setup.

Also, NC 39 feels off to me.

I'm concerned about how they're, like, sliding alongside me
Feels like buddying.

These are just weak accusations that he hasn't backed up at all.

What is the something that ‘scum never do’, sorry?
And I say “almost always” because it is true — sometimes scum put pressure on people; I’m told that that is a very effective way to appear townie, and

win the game

. I tend to find that that is the goal scum aim for, yeah?

I agree that those are fairly weak accusations, but you can’t really back up a read that seems to be completely gut.

[Spangled]

I have had a kind of weird scum-gut-read for a while on NC 39 because of occasionally abrasive interaction with me, but I looked over both my and their ISO and I’m pretty sure that I have been equally at fault in my abrasiveness — see my previous post for an example, actually, now that I think about it — toward them, and I feel like it’s a kind of semi-instinctive OMGUS that I should

probably

ignore.

[Spangled]

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

I don’t really like this... applying pressure is almost always an action town takes...
Or was it how he applied pressure that you didn’t like?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Hello everyone happy day one! I'm completely new to this site, and I think the last time I played mafia was in the 5th grade irl, so I might have a bit of a learning curve...(also have never played minecraft)
let's get the posts rolling~

Indeed!
Some like to do RVS (Random Voting Stage), here on this site, but I’d like to try RQS (Random Question Stage) to kick the game off this time.

So.

AaronFrost

: What TV show are you enjoying at the moment?

Martinkids1

: What is the fabric of the clothes you are wearing right now?

kokorogobrokoro

: Does your name meaning anything in any language, and is there anything we can abbreviate it to?

2 funk 2 punction

: What kind of device are you typing your reply to this from?

eth0s

: What method of transportation do you most enjoy using?

Iconeum

: Do you like the climate of where you live?

Luca Blight

: When did you last consume water?

Draynth

: What movie did you watch most recently?
and

Everyone

: Was there red or green text in your Role PM?

It may be that your intentions are sincere in doing this, but I can't help but dislike the possibility of where this could lead us.

VOTE: Spangled

I do have to ask, though, is this a serious vote or just an RVS vote?
‘Cause if it’s a serious vote, that’s a pretty rubbish reason to scumread someone.
I’m mildly alarmed, eth0s, that you’re townreading Luca Blight with this vote — I’ve seen enough games where town opens with RQS to know that it’s a fairly effective opening to the game that can, in fact, catch scum — not directly, but through the discussion —that all important thing at the beginning of the game — that it provokes.

This is super defensive for early game, and just after a single vote on him.

I don't know why you have it in your mind that town aren't defensive. Could you walk me through the reasoning on this?

Scum orchestra as in trying to feed/force a scumread to people without committing to that scumread yourself

Ohhh. Right. Rather than scum theatre. I see.
All these terms that aren't on the wiki.

I can see Draynth as scum for those bits outlined above, but it's

fairly

minorly scummy, in my opinion; it's early days yet. It is in that area, I guess, where you could put a vote (to produce information, much as Luca said), but not necessarily a lynch (and definitely not on page 3).
Aye, I'll VOTE: Draynth.

L-3, in case anyone cares.

Pedit:
Never mind,

L-2

.

This is most likely scum hopping onto a wagon for nill reason. The way he explains it is very 'walking the line' trying to justify it but not really taking a stance either.

All his ISO reads like that, very 'carefully' worded posts.

VOTE: Spangled

'Twas a pressure vote, fully acknowledged as such later.

Also, are "'carefully' worded posts" different from "carefully worded posts"; why the emphasis on clearly?

Hey Spangled, I haven’t read the game but I do know you were scum in that. My first reaction to post 267 was, basically, Oh God! you are such a newb to actually believe this but then I saw this post. So, who were you saying was doing the “pressure voting” in 150, Luca Blight or you?

Myself, although if I remember correctly I kind of appropriated that terminology from someone else’s post that was between that one you’ve quoted and my earlier vote, kind of thinking ‘ah, here’s a good explanation for what I was doing, although that

kind

of wasn’t what I was doing — although if it had been coming from a town perspective that’s what it would have been’... if any of that makes sense

[Spangled]

Woah some stuff happened there. Sorry about that; I’m messing up formatting as never before this game.

[Spangled]

I have had a kind of weird scum-gut-read for a while on NC 39 because of occasionally abrasive interaction with me, but I looked over both my and their ISO and I’m pretty sure that I have been equally at fault in my abrasiveness — see my previous post for an example, actually, now that I think about it — toward them, and I feel like it’s a kind of semi-instinctive OMGUS that I should

probably

ignore.

One thing I noticed about both of your scumgames. was that you seemed to be trying to win the Guinness award for OMGUS voting. You haven’t done that so far in this game.

I should also make it clear, it was Nero who did that. Have you played with Nero before?

No, I have not. The only people I have personal experience with were two of the failed-to-pick-up-Role-PM rep-outs.

[Spangled]

Is there some reason you are mischaracterizing my post here? RC, objected to Spangled being in the coalition and then Alchemist removed both of us, after saying “fine”. I referenced that because RCMA made no mention of us, so I was wondering why Alchemist seemed to make that connection.

I had agreed with some of your posts but obviously not all and I explained the reasoning for that. I’m very curious how that read as “buddying” to you?

I'm pretty sure you had a similar reaction to Alchemist's initial statement that he'd remove us from his coalition as when he actually did it. So first off you seem very on edge, which also makes you looks suspicious outside the buddying situation, and second I feel like you're trying to get me associated with you.

What do you mean by ‘trying to get me associated with you’? What kind of agenda do you think they’re pushing as scum, sorry?

[Spangled]

YOUAREGREAT replaces Clemency.

They had better be.

i sure am

I hope so. I’ve heard playing with Clemency cited as ‘an experience’, so I’d like you to live up to that

[Spangled]

I have had a kind of weird scum-gut-read for a while on NC 39 because of occasionally abrasive interaction with me, but I looked over both my and their ISO and I’m pretty sure that I have been equally at fault in my abrasiveness — see my previous post for an example, actually, now that I think about it — toward them, and I feel like it’s a kind of semi-instinctive OMGUS that I should

probably

ignore.

One thing I noticed about both of your scumgames. was that you seemed to be trying to win the Guinness award for OMGUS voting. You haven’t done that so far in this game.

I should also make it clear, it was Nero who did that. Have you played with Nero before?

No, I have not. The only people I have personal experience with were two of the failed-to-pick-up-Role-PM rep-outs.

Oh, and Gamma too, but I was an IC that game and IC games just mess with your brain; no one suspecting you leaves you in a weird state of mind afterwards.

[Spangled]

Gamma, actually, doesn’t really feel the same to me as the last game we were in; tonally they actually feel a bit weirdly different from how I remember them.

Want mr to talk about this, because I can def talk about it and explain what is different

Well I was a cop that game and that affected how I played in that game. I'm not here. Like you saw Persivul poking me for bring different, he was right even though he was scum.

Gamma let’s talk about this. If being a Cop changed your tone in that other game why would your tone be similar to your Cop play here when everyone is Vanilla?

I’m afraid that you’ve misread that exchange. Gamma was cop in a game with me, and I thought that, this game, her tone was different from how it was then, but she is saying that the fact that she was cop then, in my past experience of her, is the reason her tone is different from that game to this game — if that all follows; it did in my mind but feels tenuous typed.

[Spangled]

@GREAT (if I can abbreviate it like that?)
If you didn’t really care about RC’s meta, what did you think about nsg’s meta (the other head of the RCMA hydra), particularly their scum meta?
Also, what parts of what Gamma says around pages 7/8 were towntelling?

I feel like I want to townread GREAT; this entrance and catch-up is feeling towny... although I do feel a bit semi-buddied. Why so many mentions of me so far?

[Spangled]

@GREAT (if I can abbreviate it like that?)
If you didn’t really care about RC’s meta, what did you think about nsg’s meta (the other head of the RCMA hydra), particularly their scum meta?
Also, what parts of what Gamma says around pages 7/8 were towntelling?

I feel like I want to townread GREAT; this entrance and catch-up is feeling towny... although I do feel a bit semi-buddied. Why so many mentions of me so far?

it's fine to use that abbreviation. to be honest, i skimmed through all the meta talk. i really don't care about it at all and i felt like i was wasting my time by reading it. i can go back and form an opinion on it, if you want me to.

I just felt that the nsg/RCMA meta was really conclusive regarding their alignment; the thing that really stuck out to me was that in RCMA’s last scumgame was that nsg’s head only posted once that game. Their effort this game seems to incredibly starkly contrast this game, to the point where I’d be willing to townread RCMA based only on that.

[Spangled]

@GREAT (if I can abbreviate it like that?)
If you didn’t really care about RC’s meta, what did you think about nsg’s meta (the other head of the RCMA hydra), particularly their scum meta?
Also, what parts of what Gamma says around pages 7/8 were towntelling?

I feel like I want to townread GREAT; this entrance and catch-up is feeling towny... although I do feel a bit semi-buddied. Why so many mentions of me so far?

it's fine to use that abbreviation. to be honest, i skimmed through all the meta talk. i really don't care about it at all and i felt like i was wasting my time by reading it. i can go back and form an opinion on it, if you want me to.

I just felt that the nsg/RCMA meta was really conclusive regarding their alignment; the thing that really stuck out to me was that in RCMA’s last scumgame was that nsg’s head only posted once that game. Their effort this game seems to incredibly starkly contrast that game, to the point where I’d be willing to townread RCMA based only on that.

EBWOP

[Spangled]

There's actually a tell of weird looking typos being indicators of scum leaving something in the post after revising. I think it has some dumb name.

I can lend some, small level of credibility to this; I have done this as scum, IIRC. But not every revision-typo is a scum-revision-typo; I know I revise some of my posts as scum and town.

[Spangled]

i think youaregreat is going to be the reason scum wins regardless of what their actual alignment is

So, pray tell, what do you think their alignment is? Do you have a read on them?

[Spangled]

@Spangled: any reason why you aren't adding people to your coalition? do you not think it's useful for us to see your preferred coalition as it changes?

Well, it’s funny, but I don’t have enough strong-ish townreads that I don’t have some kind of strange doubt on to make a full 5. I guess if I included two of my stronger doubtful-townreads (and myself), I might have a coalition, but I’d much rather get some form of a consensus coalition and vote for that.

[Spangled]

who's your top sr right now, spangled?

Uh... LUV sort of could be, I guess, but he’s not a scumread, just at the lower end of the PoE. Much like Hectic said, I don’t have any

real

scumreads — by which I mean the kind I would be fairly sure would flip scum; the kind you might push for the lynch.

[Spangled]

@Spangled: any reason why you aren't adding people to your coalition? do you not think it's useful for us to see your preferred coalition as it changes?

Well, it’s funny, but I don’t have enough strong-ish townreads that I don’t have some kind of strange doubt on to make a full 5. I guess if I included two of my stronger doubtful-townreads (and myself), I might have a coalition, but I’d much rather get some form of a consensus coalition and vote for that.

I mean, if I was to make a coalition, it might look something like GREAT-RCMA-myself-?-?, with the two spaces filled by pretty much anyone but Alch or LUV. I feel like Espresso would be one of my picks, but RC is often touted as an excellent player as town — for which I think the meta, if nothing else, is conclusive — and I feel — in a kind of gambler’s-fallacy sort of way — that it should be unlikely that they’d be wrong on

both

their top scumreads...
But I’d imagine that it can happen, so...

[Spangled]

VC 1.11 Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled EspressoPatronum (5): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled NC 39 (4): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, RC most awesomest RC most awesomest (2): RC most awesomest, Alchemist21 Clemency (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum Spangled (1): RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (1): Hectic EspressoPatronum (1): Lil Uzi Vert Not Voting (4): NC 39, Clemency, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

@mod
YOUAREGREAT is still Clemency in the VCs.

[Spangled]

sky give extension

-nsg

This plz
The short deadline kinda makes forming a decent coalition hard. Even if we just get an extended D1 deadline I'll be happy

The bitching about the deadline is annoying. The coalition is not isn’t the be all end all. I’d be pissed as scum right now if Sky granted this.

this feels towny as well unless LUV is transparent enough as scum to show outrage at something like this

I’m sorry, but I don’t know

what

you mean here.

[Spangled]

Alchemist: i see, thanks. what do you think of so many people townreading Spangled? do you agree/disagree?

I was actually a little surprised at how many were Townreading them when I checked the VC. They’re null to me.

Do you have any kind of read on me now?
What about Hectic?

[Spangled]

Alchemist: i see, thanks. what do you think of so many people townreading Spangled? do you agree/disagree?

I was actually a little surprised at how many were Townreading them when I checked the VC. They’re null to me.

Do you have any kind of read on me now?
What about Hectic?

You’re still null to me. I don’t trust your self-meta to pin you down as Town. It might help me if you tell me why you think Great is Towny. I don’t want Great in the Coalition and I have a reason for it but I want to hear your reason for including them first.

Hectic’s still a scumread.

Fair enough. I though GREAT was really towny in that catchup; the reads they formed seemed to follow a logical process, particularly the EP read.
Also, I really get where they’re coming from as far as repping into Clemency because they thought the slot was obvtown — I really don’t enjoy playing scum, so when I see a game I want to rep into and there’s a spot open, I always ISO the slot and see if it’s either fairly inactive (but townily inactive, if that makes sense) or something I think I would townread.
And, also, how they mentioned that fact about their rep-in but didn’t kind of

push

the idea their slot was obvtown via Clemency’s few posts on us I quite liked. I also like their analysis of Gamma; I don’t think I quite agree with it but it is a new perspective on a slot that everyone seems to mildly townread(?) so far and it just generally gives a new take, which I think is hard for scum repping in to do.

I think that my desire to put them into the coalition may still come out of some buddying; they say ‘I’m not buddying you’ but then compliment me (as it were) on the towniness of my posts... but I think might be paranoia, especially if no one else is seeing that...?

Why did you scumread Hectic, sorry?

[Spangled]

Idk how I messed up the spoiler tags. That first paragraph outside the spoiler isn’t even mine, just the second one.

Spoiler= and quote tags interact weirdly, especially spoiled quoted spoilers and so on. We’ll figure it out.

[Spangled]

I can see your points on Great pushing against status quo a bit. However I think there’s too much wifom on their rep-in remarks about Clemency. Clemency doing what even he says he does as scum could be null because real life stuff happens but it certainly shouldn’t be a good sign that he’s Town to anyone. And they might not have hard pushed the idea but they are the one who introduced the idea and it comes off as a bit LAMIST for their slot and there’s just no way I can trust it enough for a Coalition vote.

Well, it wasn’t so much him doing what he says he does as scum; he seems to have completely siteflaked, I think, not just disappeared here. No, it’s more around the boldness and WIFOM-ness of the statement, if he was scum — if he knows he freezes up as scum (and probably has done so recently?) he’s definitely not going to mention it, is he?

[Spangled]

If it’s already well-known he would.

I could

maybe

buy that if there’s someone here he’s played a few games with (especially a scum game against), but so blatantly? Really?
If he’s scum, it just seems a pointless way to get yourself suspected if you seem to freeze up; the WIFOM seems all negative if he’s scum.

[Spangled]

However, it’s slightly concerning to me that LUV seems to be sr by almost everyone but RCMA.

I think in the case of many people — certainly it is for myself — that it’s more of a ‘at the lower end of null’ than a full scumread.

But I do see what you mean. Presumably, I suppose, scum are bussing in such a way that it gets them towncred — either that, or LUV is town. If no one’s scumreading him in a towncred-earning kind of way, then maybe the most likely conclusion is that he’s town...? Is that what you’re saying, here?

[Spangled]

@RCMA
Could we have some general perspectives on the game, particularly thoughts on GREAT besides ‘they’re going to make town lose’, and perhaps thoughts on Hectic and LUV?

[Spangled]

However, it’s slightly concerning to me that LUV seems to be sr by almost everyone but RCMA.

I think in the case of many people — certainly it is for myself — that it’s more of a ‘at the lower end of null’ than a full scumread.

But I do see what you mean. Presumably, I suppose, scum are bussing in such a way that it gets them towncred — either that, or LUV is town. If no one’s scumreading him in a towncred-earning kind of way, then maybe the most likely conclusion is that he’s town...? Is that what you’re saying, here?

Well, we couldn’t possibly know that until he’s flipped but yeah, it’s seems too easy. In DnD, nearly everyone wanted to lynch Lovebird except RC and she wound up flipping town, so I’m thinking RCMA could possibly be right about LUV as well.

Makes sense, I suppose. I’ll take that with a grain of salt, though, because it feels to me as if RCMA have me/EP pegged very definitely as the scumteam, and if they weren’t scumreading me and him, who knows where their reads might be pointed? (If that makes sense.)

[Spangled]

Also, anyone and everyone, I don’t know everyone’s timezones, sleep cycles, etc., but if anyone is up and around I’m going to be checking the thread every ten-fifteen minutes for the next 45 minutes to an hour or so, so if you want to have a somewhat protracted tête-à-tête (which I learnt today means, literally translated, head-to-head, which is funny because the general meaning of it is so different, especially with head-to-head being a very different-meaning idiom in English) with me, then now is the time.

[Spangled]

Also, anyone and everyone, I don’t know everyone’s timezones, sleep cycles, etc., but if anyone is up and around I’m going to be checking the thread every ten-fifteen minutes for the next 45 minutes to an hour or so, so if you want to have a somewhat protracted tête-à-tête (which I learnt today means, literally translated, head-to-head, which is funny because the general meaning of it is so different, especially with head-to-head being a very different-meaning idiom in English) with me

on any particular issue or thing

, then now is the time.

EBWOP, kind of

[Spangled]

Naturally, the moment I am free to talk in real time, the discussion dries up. H’m. Good night, o silent thread.

[Spangled]

If it’s already well-known he would.

I could

maybe

buy that if there’s someone here he’s played a few games with (especially a scum game against), but so blatantly? Really?
If he’s scum, it just seems a pointless way to get yourself suspected if you seem to freeze up; the WIFOM seems all negative if he’s scum.

Why didn't YOU care that Achlem was reading you wrong?

I didn't really feel like it needed to be addressed. If it was more substantiated I might have.
Also your reads seem really weak rn

Any in particular?

It's more a general statement because of how ill formed they seem.

However, it’s slightly concerning to me that LUV seems to be sr by almost everyone but RCMA.

I think in the case of many people — certainly it is for myself — that it’s more of a ‘at the lower end of null’ than a full scumread.

But I do see what you mean. Presumably, I suppose, scum are bussing in such a way that it gets them towncred — either that, or LUV is town. If no one’s scumreading him in a towncred-earning kind of way, then maybe the most likely conclusion is that he’s town...? Is that what you’re saying, here?

Well, we couldn’t possibly know that until he’s flipped but yeah, it’s seems too easy. In DnD, nearly everyone wanted to lynch Lovebird except RC and she wound up flipping town, so I’m thinking RCMA could possibly be right about LUV as well.

Makes sense, I suppose. I’ll take that with a grain of salt, though, because it feels to me as if RCMA have me/EP pegged very definitely as the scumteam, and if they weren’t scumreading me and him, who knows where their reads might be pointed? (If that makes sense.)

Do you think they’re wrong on LUV?

I don’t know — but you definitely have something decent there — when the consensus seems to be ‘they’re most likely scum’, there’s probably something not quite right going on, especially if people aren’t pushing them in a towncred-earning way.

Still wouldn’t really feel comfortable with them in the coalition, though — I’d really like some more reads and thoughts from them on the game, because they just

have not said enough

.

[Spangled]

@GREAT
Could you flesh out your NC 39 read?

[Spangled]

@Gamma
Could we get a read on GREAT and NC 39?

[Spangled]

@Gamma
Could we get a read on GREAT and NC 39?

I think it's pretty clear I scumread NC 39.

Can you flesh that out a bit, though? I’ve seen you point out occasional things you find scummy, but I really don’t see what it is

generally

in their play that makes them scum — which is more of a determiner of scum than the little scummy things, I find.

[Spangled]

I'd probably say it's not as strong as it was a little bit earlier, but I don't like their way of reacting to things and the way they're handling questioning feels kinda bad

Some examples, maybe?

[Spangled]

I mean look at how much time I had to put in to get a simple explanation for why a PoE list was structured how it was. Like I feel if I had to describe that hydra's play in one word it would be "defensive". They don't seem to handle any sort of pushing/pressure at all.

To me, that exchange there looked more like a natural abrasiveness combined with some frustration; you two were doing some weird talking past each other there, and I feel like there were misunderstandings by both sides.

Any other examples of how their play has been defensive?

[Spangled]

@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?

[Spangled]

@Hectic
Are you comfortable with your coalition right now?

[Spangled]

Spoiler:

nancy

, clem, where are youuuuuuuu

-nsg

Was this directed to me specifically or my hydra?

I also would like to understand why Espresso is your strongest sr and why you’re tr LUV?

I’m currently tl Espresso and null on LUV, so what am I missing?

If I did change it I would just take out NC

y?

HURT: spangled

removing from our heal list, will discuss it with nsg later.

Fine.

HURT: NC 39, Gamma Emerald

???

LUV is still scum.

RC is town.

HURT: LUV

HEAL: RC

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

Don't like how Alchem is ignoring me as I think that often comes from scum.

And still, dislike Spangled.

but thats too many scum reads. So I'm wrong on 2 of those 4.

HEAL: RC most awesomest, Hectic, EspressoPatronum, NC 39 is a rock-solid coalition but I'm hesitant to add Clemency as some of his posts pinged me earlier.

So basically, who are the other town between Clem, Gamma, Alchem, and Spangled and I guess LUV in case I'm wrong but I don't think I am?

Okay. You don't think you responding to a question directed at me and reacting with blank (undetailed) abjection to Alchemist saying your and my slot weren't towny enough for a coalition looked a little off to me? And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

I always ask ppl that are scum reading me why they are scum reading me regardless of alignment. We've also played a bunch together. Are you telling me that I've never once asked anyone that was scum reading me why they were scum reading me? And just in general, why is that a bad question? Should we just all be throwing out reads without reasons given? Why didn't

YOU

care that Achlem was reading you wrong? Or was he not?

And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

that's really really not what he said though.

I agree that those are fairly weak accusations, but you can’t really back up a read that seems to be completely gut.

He's saying that

YOUR

accusations are weak but defended them as gut despite that a buddying accusation is in fact not a gut accusation. Maybe one could argue that the "NC feels off" is a gut accusation but you are claiming you felt this way b/c I asked Aclem was he was not townreading me.

Well as it is, it looks like it's completely arbitrary. How am I supposed to read arbitrary read list divisions?

Why? Because you disagree with it?

These are the posts I find defensive from NC 39. It's less than I expected, and I think that's mostly because I had my head up my ass regarding my own interactions with them.

I find it telling that those posts are all from Nero (I think); I feel like what you’re perceiving as defensiveness is personality-based and more of a general abrasiveness.
Has your read changed on them, after (I’m assuming) skimming their ISO?

[Spangled]

I’m townreading Gamma’s willingness to read NC 39 again.
I’m townreading NC 39’s willingness to read me despite RC’s read on me, but this comes with more reservations since I could be sort of... ‘anti-OMGUSing’, — where you townread someone because they correctly read you, I guess — maybe...

I’m getting more paranoid about EP and GREAT, but both have been pretty towny so far — I guess I just need some activity to sort of... refresh my townreads, I guess? I don’t really know what I mean here, but I think I’ve captured the gist.

[Spangled]

For LUV, Alch, and Hectic, I’d be fairly comfortable lynching/excluding from coalition in there, although I think I’d like Alch most so far... Not really any particular thing, just a lack of a towny

tone

, kinda the same thing with LUV but, unlike LUV, Alch seems like there hasn’t been a consensus-thing going on, which is the thing that holds me back from lynching them, at least today.

I have to admit, Hectic’s kind of faded from my mind, but the thing about that un-hectic playstyle and how he tried to cover for it by ‘channeling JK Rowling’, but hasn’t done similar for a while is kind of worrying to me. So I’d be comfortable lynching there, too.

My biggest concern with my reads is that I seem to be TRing the active people and PoEing the inactive people, and it seems unlikely that scum are all in the inactive people...


Just realised that RC was absent from my previous post, but they’re pretty conf!town by nsg’s scum!meta, I feel... Although how they’re fading away from the thread worries me, I have to admit.

[Spangled]

HEAL: Spangled, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest, YOUAREGREAT, NC 39
I am going to be so bloody paranoid if this fails, and it’s absolutely open to change, but for now this feels pretty decent.

[Spangled]

So I’ve been thinking about this, and around his Alch case, Hectic goes ‘oh I actually don’t scumread him despite voting him, but I’ll scumcase him anyway’.
Makes a pretty rubbish, OMGUS-y case — it raised some occasional okay points, but it has a shadow of ‘townreads without reasons are scum!appeasement’ all over it, which really makes no sense.
‘Oh, I scumread them now, actually, look at that; how nicely have I backed up my previous action without explaining it’.

This looks like an attempt to gain towncred by ‘reconsidering’ your read on someone; notice the interesting timing — I had just stated that I townread how Gamma and NC 39 were re-reading (reconsidering) some of their reads and then Hectic tries to cash in on it, just after.

This is t/s, I think. Could be s/s, but I sort of doubt that, especially with Alch’s incredulous-sounding reaction in his responding post — although I can see it being scum theater, but I’m quite doubtful on that — although a Hectic scumflip should not clear Alch, and a Hectic townflip should not conf!town Alch, far from it. I’m leaning scum being Hectic, here, and thus I will VOTE: Hectic

I do feel a bit paranoid on him, and I feel like Hectic has displayed at least a little bit of basic towniness for a while — like his analysis of EP just before his rubbish case — so I could be persuaded elsewhere if people have reasons; I’m not going to lock Hectic as scum and deathtunnel (although I am comfortable leaving my vote there, for sure), but I’d love a defence from you, Hectic, especially about that case on Alch — because by and large, it sucked.

[Spangled]

@Spangled can you tell me more about your GREAT addition? Who would you consider swapping for the 5th position + who are you deadset on not including?

I did a GREAT towncase a bit ago; it’s here; I’m not going to quote it because it was a bit of a wallpost, but it sums up my thoughts on how towny GREAT has been so far.

Um, I didn’t really order that coalition in any particular order besides the order in which I remembered people — but as to who I’m deadset on not including, that’d be Alch and Hectic, pretty much.

People I’d consider swapping — I’ll be bluntly honest, you and NC 39 could both go, for Gamma potentially and

maybe

for LUV; I quite liked 481, because we have had a pretty insane amount of focus on getting the right coalition, and people win 9p mountainous. That’s the truth; they do it. Sometimes even without scumlynches D1
I know it’s incredible, but it happens.

[Spangled]

@mod
Sorry if you know this already (and you probably do7, but I think RCMA needs a prod

.

[Spangled]

The more it went on the more it seemed to me that NC 39/Gamma interaction was T/S. Gamma being willing to reconsider makes them look better but at this point I think I’m pretty confident in calling NC 39 Town.

HEAL: NC 39

Can you talk about this, Alchemist?
You say that NC 39/Gamma is t/s, but then that Gamma is looking better, but then that NC 39 is town? I don’t know about you, but that seems like a contradiction in terms. Am I missing something here?

[Spangled]

@LUV
Got any scumreads besides EP? Maybe sort of an idea of what coalition you might make?

[Spangled]

I have had a kind of weird scum-gut-read for a while on NC 39 because of occasionally abrasive interaction with me, but I looked over both my and their ISO and I’m pretty sure that I have been equally at fault in my abrasiveness — see my previous post for an example, actually, now that I think about it — toward them, and I feel like it’s a kind of semi-instinctive OMGUS that I should

probably

ignore.

not a fan of this post. so far, NC's gameplay feels like it's a lot of style over substance. he outs a lot of reads and fronts confidently but i don't really get the impression there's much of a genuine thought process behind his play. i like his pressure on alchemist, but it feels like he's too eager to catch him in a "gotcha" moment.

same with him writing off gamma's sr on him as "weak accusations". it feels like his default mode is defensive and afraid

I’m townreading NC 39’s willingness to read me despite RC’s read on me, but this comes with more reservations since I could be sort of... ‘anti-OMGUSing’, — where you townread someone because they correctly read you, I guess — maybe...

[Spangled]

@Spangled, if you’re now tr LUV and since I was the one who first expressed concern over all of the sr on him, I really don’t understand your recent thought process on this.

Also @LUV are you planning on creating a coalition yourself and if so, who would you put into it.

I am not at all rigid wrt to my coalition choices but with the deadline close approaching, we need no less than 5 people to be in sync on 5 players.

I really don’t understand how you’re so solid on GREAT.

As for Gamma, ISO’d a few of their scumgames and I didn’t see this kind of re-evaluation in any of them. His play has been extremely baffling to me but that did read sincere to me, so I honestly don’t know what to think about it.

I really hope that RCMA aren’t repping out, we really need their input, so it’s so close to the deadline and it doesn’t look like we’re any closer to a consensus.

I know and am willing to change my coalition picks, in order to get it passed, because rn, it’s not looking like it’s even happening.

I don’t know how much of this is to me, but I’m just going to address everything except that which is explicitly to LUV.

LUV’s tone has changed for the better, now that he’s been

posting at all

— like I said somewhere, 481 I get, and while being disinterested in a game is really not something I can understand on a person level, or relate to, (I’m not really not that jaded yet, fortunately), I can

understand

it.

I am... less solid on GREAT than I have been. I still townread them, though, for sure; I know I’ve towncased them, and cited said towncase fairly recently. I really cannot be bothered to link it right now, but it’s in my ISO fairly recently, and the link to it is yet more recent.

[Spangled]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

Hectic, if I see this (below), what else am I supposed to think than that it’s a kind ‘relevatory scumread’?

- snipped case on Alch -
that's all, think i've convinced myself a little with that actually lol

[Spangled]

@GREAT
A readslist, please? And a coalition, maybe?

[Spangled]

@GREAT
A readslist, please? And a coalition, maybe?

Actually, I want a readslist from everyone, including would/would not include in coalition. My reads are paranoia-flip-flopping everywhere, and I need to see what my townreads (

and

my scumreads) think, so I can get some idea of how people’s reads agree/disagree with mine, and who to sheep on what issues, because I feel that, by and large, that is what I’m going to be reduced to.

I’m particularly interested as to what everyone thinks of EP, because I’m kind of reconsidering them. Edit-y thing: After ISOing them, I still kind of am, but less so. some thoughts:
I liked how they read through previous coalition games, and tried to glean insight from them. It could be scum looking busy, but I don’t think it reads like that.
I like 130, 74 and kind of 139. Also, 240.
But I’m really paranoid about them. Their tone feels weird and formal (like in 483, I guess?); I just don’t like it for some reason — although I think that might be how my posts read too, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I really want to know where RCMA’s scumread on them came from, because if I remember correctly it was pretty much all based on how EP wanted to ‘tilt’ them.

@EP
I want to hear more about what you say in 260. Do you still feel that on Gamma?

[Spangled]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

it'd be between LUV/Alchemist for the lynch for me as everyone else still feels towny

want to fit Great into my coalition but seems people are starting to drop me so probably doesn't matter. if i'm talking about my 5 biggest townreads, i think it'd be:

RCMA, Espresso, Great, Spangled, NC 39

i'd need to reread the thread to see who i'd throw out for myself but kinda busy today

Ugh. The latter part of this post reads kinda towny to me — if Hectic is scum, his partner is probably in there; if he’s scum and that coalition is all town there’s a big gamble going on there (although how he doesn’t actually vote for that coalition offsets some of that).

But then again I don’t like the earlier bit of the post. I can’t settle on some

really

solid townreads here, other than the one person truly inactive, and it’s super frustrating.

[Spangled]

Of course they’re scum sided, I just don’t think that’s a worry for an RC that feels he can work with a town.

I don’t want to do some disgusting amateur psychoanalysis that I’ll regret here, but I kind of got the feeling that RC felt that he actually

couldn’t

work with this town...?
nsg’s absence worries me much more, I have to admit.

[Spangled]

I’m not currently sr them [GREAT] but I don’t understand Spangled/LUV/Hectic’s confident tr on them.

It’s a kind of low-level mindmeld in some areas; I really got where they were coming from with their thoughts about Clemency’s few posts; it mostly boils down to that, really — I can see myself saying that as town; it makes sense to me on a kind of fundamental level.

I am getting paranoid on them as well, in the same way as with EP — everyone seems to be adding them to their coalitions, so I can see scum!them just kind of sitting back and relaxing. But then they probably have IRL stuff etc, so...?

I think if our coalition doesn’t succeed with GREAT in it, we need to be getting them to give reads and see if their progression makes sense, because when they repped in, they spewed a lot of thoughts and reads everywhere, and
if they’re scum that will be the thing we catch them on.

That’s how FF slipped by as scum until the very end in CK9++; when they repped in they made a massive narrative through their reads, but no one ever questioned them afterwards on those reads, and so they got townpoints for their catchup, but didn’t actually have to answer many questions afterward, so they got townpoints for nothing.

[Spangled]

I feel like I’ve missed some question directed at me somewhere, but I am too tired to go back and look for it. Please @ it to me, whoever’s question I missed.

[Spangled]

no reason for spangled to be in anyones coalition

-nsg

I’m fine not being in the coalition if you can find someone reasonable to replace me but... gee, dude... have you read all of the last 5-odd pages?

[Spangled]

HEAL: luv

i think 503 is a townpost

-nsg

Do you agree with the thoughts on Alch then? Why are you townreading him?

[Spangled]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

it'd be between LUV/Alchemist for the lynch for me as everyone else still feels towny

want to fit Great into my coalition but seems people are starting to drop me so probably doesn't matter. if i'm talking about my 5 biggest townreads, i think it'd be:

RCMA, Espresso, Great, Spangled, NC 39

i'd need to reread the thread to see who i'd throw out for myself but kinda busy today

If Hectic is scum, there’s scum in here. That’s the biggest thing that’s annoying me about this game — if I don’t believe that Hectic and Alchemist are both town, but I think that one of them probably is, there is town somewhere in the top 7, and I’m getting so

paranoid

.

[Spangled]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

it'd be between LUV/Alchemist for the lynch for me as everyone else still feels towny

want to fit Great into my coalition but seems people are starting to drop me so probably doesn't matter. if i'm talking about my 5 biggest townreads, i think it'd be:

RCMA, Espresso, Great, Spangled, NC 39

i'd need to reread the thread to see who i'd throw out for myself but kinda busy today

Ugh. The latter part of this post reads kinda towny to me — if Hectic is scum, his partner is probably in there; if he’s scum and that coalition is all town there’s a big gamble going on there (although how he doesn’t actually vote for that coalition offsets some of that).

But then again I don’t like the earlier bit of the post. I can’t settle on some

really

solid townreads here, other than the one person truly inactive, and it’s super frustrating.

I’m going to trust my gut on the earlier bit of the post. Can we get some kind of a wagon rolling on Hectic, please, remembering that after we settle on a Coalition we still need a lynch?

[Spangled]

What are you getting paranoid about?

Everyone

. Like I said, lots of people seem to have been throwing around null-scum reads on people I townread, and I get the sense that I have too many townreads that aren’t super strong. I need to go back and reread the whole of toDay, because I feel like there’s some reads that I have to re-eval.

I am curious how nsg still scumreads me; I think I have, if not obvtowned, been a lot more pro-town in my behaviour than, say, Alch, especially as of late. I feel like they’re going on the strength of RC’s read, and I really want them to reread my ISO etc.

[Spangled]

so i think i have about 5 people to fill 4 spots in my coalition so basically i need to exclude one person

luv, espresso, gamma, alchemist, youaregreat

haven't really put in the effort to read nancy at all this game and it might be too late to do that (or thats just an excuse for me being lazy)

hopefully at most only one scum is in that group or i shall look Foolish

anyways i guess right now i lean towards excluding youaregreat. maybe i should reread alchemist

-nsg

Look, if you’re cool taking Alch out of there, I can get behind that coalition.

[Spangled]

so i think i have about 5 people to fill 4 spots in my coalition so basically i need to exclude one person

luv, espresso, gamma, alchemist, youaregreat

haven't really put in the effort to read nancy at all this game and it might be too late to do that (or thats just an excuse for me being lazy)

hopefully at most only one scum is in that group or i shall look Foolish

anyways i guess right now i lean towards excluding youaregreat. maybe i should reread alchemist

-nsg

Look, if you’re cool taking Alch out of there, I can get behind that coalition.

This is the coalition that we’re doing, I think — I am not cool adding Alch in.
HURT: EspressoPatronum, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled, YOUAREGREAT
HEAL: luv, espresso, gamma, alchemist, youaregreat
Let’s go; we gotta get it moving.

[Spangled]

If we believe that coalition is all town, anyone who’s not voting for this without a good reason is scum. Let’s go people!

[Spangled]

maybe you forgot that when i said "4 spots in my coalition", the fifth spot was me?

in fact, i don't think you actually read the post that you're replying to.

it's really interesting to me to see you go gung-ho about a coalition that doesn't include you, though. if i'm to continue my spiral of confirmation bias when it comes to your being scum, obviously it would point towards your partner being among one of those people. i think even from a standpoint of not previously scumreading you, an argument could be made that that interpretation makes sense – after all, you were just talking about paranoid you were of everyone. passing a coalition that doesn't include you doesn't seem to me like the actions of someone who only trusts themselves, but that's just me.

-nsg

I just copied wholesale from that post; I did not have much time and I was just trying to get something going.
HURT: Alchemist
HEAL: RCMA
I’m paranoid of the people, nsg, but we have to get a coalition through, or we don’t get the informational advantage that even a failed coalition is designed to give us. For goodness’ sake, try to see it from the perspective of town as well as the perspective of scum.

[Spangled]

HURT: alchemist
HEAL: nc39

Wait, why NC 39 and not GREAT?

[Spangled]

Doesn't sit well with me that Spangled and Great have each other in their coalitions.

Why? I could say the same of many pairs of people.

[Spangled]

HURT: alchemist
HEAL: nc39

Wait, why NC 39 and not GREAT?

I mean, I don’t mind this; I think they’re probably both town, but I do feel better on GREAT than on NC 39. What is the reasoning here?

[Spangled]

Is there a reason we’re all ignoring lynching?

[Spangled]

so i think i have about 5 people to fill 4 spots in my coalition so basically i need to exclude one person

luv, espresso, gamma, alchemist, youaregreat

haven't really put in the effort to read nancy at all this game and it might be too late to do that (or thats just an excuse for me being lazy)

hopefully at most only one scum is in that group or i shall look Foolish

anyways i guess right now i lean towards excluding youaregreat. maybe i should reread alchemist

-nsg

Look, if you’re cool taking Alch out of there, I can get behind that coalition.

This is the coalition that we’re doing, I think — I am not cool adding Alch in.
HURT: EspressoPatronum, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled, YOUAREGREAT
HEAL: luv, espresso, gamma, alchemist, youaregreat
Let’s go; we gotta get it moving.

Why are you putting in all 5 of those names when NSG was trying to figure out which one to exclude? They’re not going to exclude themselves and it’s weird you’re excluding both yourself and the player’s list you’re copying but including a guy you’re not cool with adding. It just doesn’t make sense.

Yeah, no, I copied it straight thinking (for whatever reason) that it was nsg’s actual coalition rather than 1-exclude-list. I’m excluding myself because nsg’s force of personality (and reputation, or something) is much greater than mine — a coalition with me in it will not go through while nsg is semi-blindly scumreading me.

[Spangled]

@nsg
Could you elaborate on your reasons for scumreading me? It doesn’t have to be toDay; we’re pressed for time, I get that, but at some point could you talk about why you scumread me in great detail.

[Spangled]

Is there a reason we’re all ignoring lynching?

You and GREAT are both practically chomping at the bit to string up Hecking. I don’t sr Hecking and neither does Espresso. Who else are either of you sr rn?

I mean, you even have a post, trying to determine his buddy - before the dude’s even flipped.

We only get a finite number of mislynches, I read in one of the linked games, that’s 3, that’s why I’m tr Alchemist, he has the correct focus - on coalition > lynching.

You should be far more concerned with the level of towniess of the coalition. What is your opinion on the NC/Espresso/RC/ Gamma/LUV coalition? If you’re tr both GREAT and me, why is it my slot in particular you’d want to switch?

So... you think Hectic will be a mislynch?
I also don’t think that a focus on coalition > lynching is a good reason to tr someone; everyone’s doing that, but that might mean that we miss out on a lynch; a lynch that if we don’t do, we throw away one of our mislynches almost just as much.

I wasn’t going for you in particular, I just think that GREAT’s been really townie (although weirdly less so of late), and I thought that you seemed to be the most negotiable slot to nsg... but it’ll be right; I reckon both of you are probably town, so...

[Spangled]

@nsg
Could you elaborate on your reasons for scumreading me? It doesn’t have to be toDay; we’re pressed for time, I get that, but at some point could you talk about why you scumread me in great detail.

Or even if you don’t want to talk to me about that you could at least try and engage with me rather than levelling of a few sarcastic posts my way and otherwise ignoring me. I do not get why you’re doing this, especially as you’ve admitted you’ve been ‘confbiasing’ toward scum!me.

[Spangled]

Anyone want to take bets that if I was insane enough to vote Espresso, RC would probably locktown me for it?

It’s too late to play wagonomics, I guess.

I haven’t liked Hectic this game because I think his play is typical of newb!scum, but newbscum that has a lot of town experience and a long time to read up on playing scum and look at mafia theory — which if he’s scum is exactly what’s happening.

But I agree, we probably shouldn’t lynch outside the coalition.

[Spangled]

Anyone want to take bets that if I was insane enough to vote Espresso, RC would probably locktown me for it?

I haven’t liked Hectic this game because I think his play is typical of newb!scum, but newbscum that has a lot of town experience and a long time to read up on playing scum and look at mafia theory — which if he’s scum is exactly what’s happening.

To clarify a bit, I think some of the weird awkwardness in his posts is newb-scummy.
I’m definitely going to re-evaluate this (and other) reads though; I will reread today this afternoon.

[Spangled]

maybe I should be voting EP

@NC 39
Any reason you’re not voting?

[Spangled]

sorry, i wasn't being snarky, i was just kidding around with nonsense

anyway, I really that analysis on Spangled there, and you bring up some real good points. i did get the feeling earlier with that pop in you outlined, especially his response to the UTR thing given someone had already answered that for me, but i thought it too nitpicky to bring up earlier

putting this here to remind myself to go looking through some past Spangled games to see how often he asks that "Got any reads?" question as either alignment

that's all from me tonight, so for now:

HURT: Spangled
HEAL: RCMA

Crap -
Maybe Hectic is town. Damn it.
I don’t like his tone occasionally, but his reads (especially early reads) feel good, and I feel like he had reads before other people, if you know what I mean — that rather than sheeping townreads, he townread people who became UTRs first (like me and EP)...? I mean he did change his read around me but that still stands.
I still have plenty of misgivings (his tone especially, and his Alch case which is pretty bad), but I’m willing to take him off the table today.

[Spangled]

Whoops must have misclicked there.

[Spangled]

that coalition contained two slots i hard vetoed being in the coalition, btw.

...Your partner disagreed.
I... can you and nsg have a long conversation about your reads somewhere?

[Spangled]

I still think Clemency’s entrance was way too WIFOMy for scum to make; it’s a thing that would be very hard to brush off if you start doing it, and it makes people look at your meta harder, more analytically, just by posting it. I could

maybe

compromise lynch this but I would need some better reasons than people have provided so far.

[Spangled]

NC 39 was the first person/people/entity in the game to point out nsg’s scum-meta... It could be scum looking for townpoints but I don’t feel that...
More generally I really feel like they’re trying to gamesolve/sort; I can find some posts but there are 12 hours or something and I need to find some scumreads so I’m just taking them off the table for now.

@NC 39/Nancy(?)
Do you still believe what you said in the post below?

Assuming we pass a coalition and it fails, nobody should be voting to lynch outside of the 5 coalition members.

Why not? IF coalition fails - unless you think there’s two scum in it - unlikely. So, for today and today only, IF we lynch, it makes the most sense to lynch amongst the two scummiest players NOT in coalition. It was definitely GREAT for me, until Hectic decided to sub himself for Gamma pretty much immediately after voting the coalition.

[Spangled]

@Spamgled
I won't have time to address your questions point by point until later tonight. Will get to it then.

Some quick notes:
- the formality of some of my posts is perhaps due to my area of study + work. Some of those posts you linked look like the way I structure some emails.
- the paranoia is normal. Almost every player in nsg's game was convinced the coalition would fail + were thus paranoid. (*remind me later to find the scum pairings post by Almost50 -- we may be able to use his logic here).

Honestly conflicted feelings on EP.
He did some stuff early game, but lately there’s been a lot less activity etc.
He does a lot of info-gathering early game... AI? Mystery — yes, (after-game-)coincidence — maybe, hotel? Trivago.
I also think he had first tr on Hectic? I like his progression on Hectic early-ish game but there hasn’t been much since...?
I don’t really want him lynched today, but the feeling is a lot less strong than on NC, actually, weirdly enough.

[Spangled]

I think RCMA is off the table, definitely for today at least, for meta + other stuff. The way everyone’s kind of assumed they’re town also makes me feel they’re town...?
But I feel like scum will keep them alive because of how much discord they’re introducing into the town (fmpov), especially regarding me.

[Spangled]

As regards Gamma, 122 and 126 confuse me as a combination. I like their initial progression on me... but then, that progression is townreading me, and after other people started to do the same, so I’m pretty much going to discard that.
Gamma doesn’t express many stances (especially controversial ones) as far as I can see (feel free to prove me wrong though, anyone). Their tone still feels off to me and that pr vs vt explanation still doesn’t sit well with me.

I do like how he reconsidered NC 39, but a lot of his reads are go-with-the-flow kind ones; he trs me when others start to, he trs RCMA when others start to, he reconsiders me when RCMA cases me, he trs NC 39 when other start to, he srs Hectic when I start to... like out of all the slots I’ve looked at I think I like this least; the lack of some really individual reads that others didn’t have first I don’t like. I don’t think anyone’s online now so I’m going to plant my vote here because right now is the last time toDay I’ll be online.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Spangled]

@NC 39
We have 10 hours to find a lynch; this doesn’t run double day; the timer doesn’t reset.

[Spangled]

maybe I should be voting EP

@NC 39
Any reason you’re not voting?

I could ask you the exact same question. You haven’t voted either. Only RC and Alchemist have. We have 6+ days and I’d rather not mislynch.

Any reason

you’re

not voting?

I’m trying to determine why the coalition failed and my weakest reads inside the coalition - where we ought to be focusing our energies today, don’t you agree? - are LUV/Gamma.

I liked Gamma’s posting just prior to the coalition hammer, so rn I lean LUV but I don’t even think he’s posted yet. GREAT hasn’t either, so that makes this harder.

Well I mean I did vote prior to the coalition failing, and the count didn’t reset, so...
But I do agree on Gamma/LUV being the weakest pair inside the coalition.
And GREAT not being here definitely makes this harder.

[Spangled]

Okay looking at LUV and then I shall go unto blissful sleep. Probably not the blissful sleep beyond the mortal coil though; I doubt I’m the NK. Speaking of which the NK choice will be very interesting actually.

[Spangled]

The only thing scummy is you making that out to be something

I’m not really unhappy. I kinda expected to be scum read by certain people going into this.

LUV is, unsurprisingly, not much to look at. I sympathise with lots of his thoughts involving the coalition though, enough that absent bigger reasons I don’t want him strung up today. I am surprised that he got in the coalition though; I know 481 is pretty towny but in the bigger scheme of things I kind of meh looking at it.

His early game is NAI; 503 could be a townpost if you try hard enough, although I will admit that it doesn’t really look like a scumpost.
His low content frustrates me and I’m not sure why he thought that him disengaging should show us that he’s town, but I’m not changing my vote at this point and he’s towny enough not to eat rope today.

[Spangled]

VC 1.17 Mod note: The coalition of [ EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, NC 39, RC most awesomest ] has failed! Hectic (2): YOUAREGREAT, Spangled Lil Uzi Vert (2): Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum Spangled (1): RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (1): Hectic EspressoPatronum (1): Lil Uzi Vert Not Voting (2): Alchemist21, NC 39 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

[/u]

Underline mine.
Both coalition and lynch must happen in ‘day phase’ one.

[Spangled]

@Spamgled
I won't have time to address your questions point by point until later tonight. Will get to it then.

Some quick notes:
- the formality of some of my posts is perhaps due to my area of study + work. Some of those posts you linked look like the way I structure some emails.
- the paranoia is normal. Almost every player in nsg's game was convinced the coalition would fail + were thus paranoid. (*remind me later to find the scum pairings post by Almost50 -- we may be able to use his logic here).

Honestly conflicted feelings on EP.
He did some stuff early game, but lately there’s been a lot less activity etc.
He does a lot of info-gathering early game... AI? Mystery — yes, (after-game-)coincidence — maybe, hotel? Trivago.
I also think he had first tr on Hectic? I like his progression on Hectic early-ish game but there hasn’t been much since...?
I don’t really want him lynched today, but the feeling is a lot less strong than on NC, actually, weirdly enough.

I’m not the reason the coalition failed. Why do you think Espresso over LUV/Gamma?

I... what?
I think I must have been unclear on that last sentence. What I meant was: ‘I don’t want EP lynched today, but that feeling [not lynching here today] is stronger on NC 39, which is the opposite of how it’s been most of today’.
Maybe that still doesn’t make sense, but NC>EP for not-lynching, is what I’m saying.

[Spangled]

I’m going to be around probably until the next :00; I need sleep soon; important things are happening tomorrow.

[Spangled]

@NC 39
Thoughts on Gamma and my case on him?

[Spangled]

Actually, my head’s telling me pretty unconditionally that it’s sleep-time now. G’night; this has been caffeinated, tired Spangled.

[Spangled]

I wrote a response to your posts, RC, but it would make this game more toxic than it needs to be.
Honestly I think an edited Queen lyric is the best response here:

Play the game

,

everybody

play the game...

with some measure of understanding for your fellow humans beings and a belief that they won’t attempt to intentionally piss you off

and love.

Honestly probably wouldn’t sound very good; the syllables are all wrong in the first bit and they’d really have to hit that high note for a long time at the end, but it’s good advice for forums, especially this one

[Spangled]

I'll probably get scumread for saying this but I think it's pretty unfair to scum to have the deadline extended here.

hey Gamma, what's your response to Espresso?'s case on you?

I think his analysis is accurate but I think I haven't been very actively scummy si that should also be considered. I've kinda been wanting to kick into gear or something but I feel at this point I'm gonna need a kick outside of being pushed

Which part of my analysis?

Also, I don’t think Gamma’s going through today, and I see their point on not being very ‘actively scummy’, so I could push them off the table for today; I’m willing to VOTE: Alchemist

[Spangled]

Whoops must have misclicked there.

How?

When I quoted 198 in 733.

[Spangled]

The parts about not expressing many stances and kinda going with the flow I feel are accurate.

But you don’t think that they’re at all AI?

[Spangled]

sky give extension

-nsg

This plz
The short deadline kinda makes forming a decent coalition hard. Even if we just get an extended D1 deadline I'll be happy

The bitching about the deadline is annoying. The coalition is not isn’t the be all end all. I’d be pissed as scum right now if Sky granted this.

@Espresso: Outside of the coalition, I would lynch LUV>Great

torn about LUV though, like the quote above, how likely is Sky to extend the day if scum are so openly against it in the thread like this?

but then i don't like LUV's pop ins this game and i dislike his buddying of RCMA so i'm not sure

@Hectic
I really don’t want to do this mod-WIFOM game; I don’t think it will help us considering all the corollaries and possibilities — scum!LUV could have given an okay in the PT but been opposed to it in-thread, etc, etc. It is a waste of time.

[Spangled]

Gamma's responses are really lazy but they feel genuine to me, like he's not overreacting or being really defensive, just taking the criticism as criticism of his town game

I just feel like in his cop game he was actually more active and proactive and less sheepy, which seems like the opposite to what you’d expect...
I’m very conflicted on how to read his general nonchalance, actually.

[Spangled]

@Hectic
Why LUV over Gamma?

[Spangled]

@Hectic
How were his earlier posts LAMIST?

@GREAT
How do you feel about Alchemist kicking the bucket today? Also, is there any reason you’re doing those semi-catchup posts and then disappearing? It makes it really difficult to remember to engage with you, and hear your thoughts or feelings on specific things in real-time.

[Spangled]

Hectic was likely waiting for an opportunity to go on Alchemist + RC's vote was a good chance to do so.

This sounds like you’re accusing Hectic of opportunism... but the rest of the post seems not to indicate that...
Remind me, what’s your read on Hectic?

[Spangled]

Also, GREAT, could you flesh out your read on EP a bit? I could maybe see it; he’s definitely been losing out in both tone and content lately, but I’d like a more solid case than that, because right now it’s not something I can see going anywhere, ‘cause his tone and content at the start

were

, admittedly, pretty good.

[Spangled]

i think it's a significant mistake for anyone to have spangled in their coalition right now and i feel like doing so is literally making the classic mistake that loses towns games: overlooking the silently scummy people coasting by in favor of focusing on the outrageous or distracting things.

I would like to offer an opinion, here — that

maybe

some of the fairly inactive people could be scum here, doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing; coasting, hoping I get lynched today and generally sheeping you, hiding behind the reasoning of how you’re ‘just that awesomely good’, and then maybe letting you lynch EP, and then shooting you N2 once you’ve served your purpose. Or maybe shooting you N1 if Coffeelad is, actually, scum, or if you change your mind or something, I don’t know.
This is not me saying you’re bad at the game, either RC or nsg — but scum can use people whose reads are pointed in the wrong direction.

This post could have aged worse.

Too tired this afternoon; will go back to actually thinking about the game tomorrow, or in a few hours.

[Spangled]

Okay, compiling some reads/thoughts here so I can sheep past!me:
Town:
NC 39
Hectic
Gamma/GREAT/EP/LUV (confusing mess)
Scum

Gamma was being nonchalant and I can totally see that coming from both sides, but maybe slightly more town?
I still really like Clemency’s entrance for town; it sounds like someone, to me, who knows their own meta, and is confident that they can be good for town this game. Please challenge me on this, perhaps, everyone?
EP - good at the start on both tone and content, has dropped majorly since.
LUV - nothing much? Maybe some slight towniness-es, but...

This game sucks to try and solve, especially when I start to second guess myself on Hectic and NC 39.

[Spangled]

My lack of sleep has caught up to me. I’m sorrry, but I promise, I really promise, that tomorrow I’m going to look critically at your ISO, EP, and I’d like others (GREAT especially) to do similar, and to throw out lynchpools/readslists.

[Spangled]

Uh... up to share some insights into the gamestate with us, LUV? Any, uh, reads to throw out, perchance?

[Spangled]

Prodding LUV and YOUAREGREAT

This is really getting super annoying. If either of you guys are town here, your being afk so often is super antitown. Like why did you guys even sign up for this? It’s getting beyond ridiculous that Sky has to continue to prod the two of you repeatedly.

I think GREAT has siteflaked, unfortunately. No activity anywhere since the 15th.

[Spangled]

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

I didn’t really feel that; what makes you say that?

[Spangled]

Spoiler: PROMISED THOUGHTS ON EP

Early game: good; stuff like 41 and 74 and 130 and 139.
Lots of it... seems very surface level? But early game that’s all you can do, really.

Lots of questions.

370: I like the reconsideration but it’s kind of when other people were starting to re-townread me I think, so ??

Tone still a bit weird, but if no one else is seeing that it’s probably not worth anything...?

Uh... progression on Gamma is... almost nonexistent? Despite voting them near EoD1. I don’t like how it happens; it’s a consensus that’s built and he just accepts it as status quo; no apparent thought process just ‘others have called this person maybe-not-town; that seems like a good lynch to make’. I don’t like it.
682 is weird; it amounts to — ‘two people who are low in coalition, and getting a flip from this one, the lower one will help me make another read...’ just... what?

Scum pairings post (777) is weird; I find it strange that there are only 3 likely pairings kind of?
He also puts a lot of weight on ‘scum will want to make sure it’s 1-in-1-out’; I’m really not sure that scum were explicitly aiming for that; there’s all kinds of WIFOM-traps to fall into there and so I think that a good deal of this analysis is worthless.

Maybe argument with RC is +townpoints but... I can see that as fakeable, probably?

Uh... I hold by my statement that you’ve dropped off in content, if not in tone; early game there was lots of good stuff going on but lately... mostly by-and-large pointless arguments, honestly.

I’ll probably revisit these thoughts and I

need

people to talk to me about them, but for now, here they are. Still not so sure what my read is; I need people to talk to me. I need it so much you would not believe; sorting EP properly will be critical to win this.

[Spangled]

Spoiler: EP’s RESPONSE TO MY THOUGHTS ON HIM

I’ll probably revisit these thoughts and I

need

people to talk to me about them, but for now, here they are. Still not so sure what my read is; I need people to talk to me. I need it so much you would not believe; sorting EP properly will be critical to win this

Happy to oblige. My comments will be in this colour

PROMISED THOUGHTS ON EP
Early game: good; stuff like 41 and 74 and 130 and 139.
Lots of it... seems very surface level? But early game that’s all you can do, really.

I actually thought the Hectic thing was a decent catch. I don't think many others were in a position to make that observation.

Lots of questions.

Haha, I do what I can.

370: I like the reconsideration but it’s kind of when other people were starting to re-townread me I think, so ??

Tone still a bit weird, but if no one else is seeing that it’s probably not worth anything...?

This was killing me so much that I had to make a second post about it, lol. I didn't even read the second half of the sentence though, so perhaps my tone post is a little overboard

Uh... progression on Gamma is... almost nonexistent? Despite voting them near EoD1. I don’t like how it happens; it’s a consensus that’s built and he just accepts it as status quo; no apparent thought process just ‘others have called this person maybe-not-town; that seems like a good lynch to make’. I don’t like it.

I can't remember the context of my Gamma read, but I'm willing to bet it's because of his meta. Remind me later if this is still bugging you + I'll go back and look at it

682 is weird; it amounts to — ‘two people who are low in coalition, and getting a flip from this one, the lower one will help me make another read...’ just... what?

This is an unfair categorization of what I said. I discussed this at length with NC, so I welcome you to read through that to fully understand the point I was making. In sum, I was seeing a potential scum pairing between NC and LUV + the result of the LUV lynch would well sort that. Also worth noting that NC was one of my top people in the coalition.

Scum pairings post (777) is weird; I find it strange that there are only 3 likely pairings kind of?

I almost regret making this post because of how many times people have misinterpreted the point. Read the first sentence of 777. It wasn't meant to be a complete pairings post + shouldn't be treated as such. Question for you -- what pairings would you add or remove? NC added a few near the end of D1.

He also puts a lot of weight on ‘scum will want to make sure it’s 1-in-1-out’; I’m really not sure that scum were explicitly aiming for that; there’s all kinds of WIFOM-traps to fall into there and so I think that a good deal of this analysis is worthless.

Scum should ABSOLUTELY be playing to 1-in/1-out. Assuming they weren't trying to do this is assuming they either don't understand the investigative value of coalition mechanic or they are incompetent. The result is perhaps a bit WIFOMy, but that's no reason to discount their goal of getting 1in/1out.

Maybe argument with RC is +townpoints but... I can see that as fakeable, probably?

Definitely fakeable... but you better believe scum!me appeases RC then just NKs him immediately. (Looking at LUV here)

Uh... I hold by my statement that you’ve dropped off in content, if not in tone; early game there was lots of good stuff going on but lately... mostly by-and-large pointless arguments, honestly.

But you said my early game was surface-level, albeit active. If I've dropped off from early game, do you mean that I haven't maintained the surface-level comments or that I've dropped even below that?
By arguments, I believe you're referring to the one with RCMA and NC. I agree that the first may have been pointless, but I believe the second (and @NC, correct me if I'm wrong) helped NC and I sort our respective townreads of one another.

[...]

@EP
My biggest problem with the 1-in-1-out thing is this: the only investigational value the coalition holds assumes 1-in-1-out; if both are in a lot of that investigational value is gone. If I was scum playing this game, I don’t think I’d mind whether we were 1-in or 2-in, so long as someone was. Because as soon as we’ve lynched one scum in the coalition, if we assume 1-1 and turn away from lynching in-coalition (especially if partner busses well) then we might easily miss scum if it’s 2-0. Unless there is more investigational value regardless of where scum are/aimed to go for...?

Also, I think we have different expectations of content. Actually, reading my ISO, I’m definitely not imposing the standards I’m imposing on you here on me. And not all of that early stuff was surface level; that was tired-brain-thinking; the thoughts on Hectic are not surface level, for example.

Also, as regards the LUV thing... I still find it strange there was no case there; an info-lynch — which was what, in that post, you were characterising it as, at least to me — is just not good for town. Mostly I want to know — did you think LUV was scum, at that point?
Because

that

would be a reason to lynch him.

I did not realise that you and NC were better sorting each other by that. To me it did not help, but if it helped you two, fair enough.

As to the scum pairings... it was unfair of me to assume it was completed; I see now rereading that you even said that it was not complete. As to actual pairings... I don’t see any reason to assume 1-in-1-out, so I don’t know. Might trying re-reading those sections to get a sense of how it all played out again, but I think pre-scumflip, trying to get assocs like this will be very difficult.

I would like you to revisit your small-push on Gamma; the way in which it happened it is still bugging me.

And as to the point about the tone — noted.

@NC 39
Would it be too much to ask for your full, detailed read on EP?

[Spangled]

VLA For like 2 weeks, just got a concussion yesterday and need to do a brain break which includes reduced screentime

I hope you’re alright. You should probably see a doctor. Concussions are very serious matters.

Have you had a doctor check you out? Your health of course, should always come before any game.

I went to the hospital last night, I have numerous injuries but the concussion is relevant to my VLA

Woah, dude. Please do your best to take it easy here on out.

[Spangled]

@EP
Yeah, I see your progression on LUV now. I somehow looked at 682 as a standalone post in my tiredness, I guess. Sorry ‘bout that.
I think the Gamma push I was referring to was where you wanted to lynch him... but the more motivations you explain to me, the more I can understand about where you’re coming from if you’re town, so explain as much as you like, please

[Spangled]

@Spangled, does Gamma feel like he did in CK9++?

@Gamma, does Spangled feel like he did in CK9++?

@EP, tl;dr me your scumread on LUV

@NC39, why did you guys kill outside of the coalition yesterday?

@everyone, what were RCMA's reads at the time of their death?

Will get to this later tonight.

Cool cool! It’s strange, but the ways in which we interacted with each other in CK9++ will in no way help either of us sort each other; you were SK and I can base very little on that; you too had to scumhunt, and I was an IC that game; my IC game is hopefully

very

different to my regular town game or my scum game.

Uh... as to Gamma... yes, the tone has been different. Nonchalant, quite relaxed — even lazy, perhaps. I’m not quite sure what to make of it, because I’ve done a wee bit of meta on them and both their town and scum game seem quite different to how they’re playing this game. It is annoying.

RCMA’s reads... goodness knows. They seemed to have given up their early scumread of me, but they never clearly indicated that. They pushed for the death of Alchemist, although a bit before that they seemed to indicate that at least 1 of EP/NC were scum... but didn’t mention it after they started going for Alch...? That’s all I can remember, sorry; I’d read this whole game with an eye to RCMA’s general accuracy throughout it.

[Spangled]

Cool cool! It’s strange, but the ways in which we interacted with each other in CK9++ will in no way help either of us sort each other; you were SK and I can base very little on that; you too had to scumhunt, and I was an IC that game; my IC game is hopefully very different to my regular town game or my scum game.

Why did you feel the need to mention this stuff specifically?

Because it’s a bit of annoying, running theme this game. Couldn’t sort EP based on tone; stuff’s pinging me but no one else is seeing it, and it’s very mild anyway, and it’s been explained but it kind of keeps annoying me — but I’m going to let it go, I think.
Can’t really sort Gamma based on meta-tone, and now I probably won’t be able to sort you based on meta-tone either, despite having previous experiences with both of you.

[Spangled]

I am going to table the setup discussion for post game (note: disagree that it is suicide to put both in coalition). For reference, I was responding to a portion of 1096. As of right now, I think I have some reads. I need to think about them more. I haven’t read more than 10 random pages in the game.

Cool cool! It’s strange, but the ways in which we interacted with each other in CK9++ will in no way help either of us sort each other; you were SK and I can base very little on that; you too had to scumhunt, and I was an IC that game; my IC game is hopefully very different to my regular town game or my scum game.

Why did you feel the need to mention this stuff specifically?

Because it’s a bit of annoying, running theme this game. Couldn’t sort EP based on tone; stuff’s pinging me but no one else is seeing it, and it’s very mild anyway, and it’s been explained but it kind of keeps annoying me — but I’m going to let it go, I think.
Can’t really sort Gamma based on meta-tone, and now I probably won’t be able to sort you based on meta-tone either, despite having previous experiences with both of you.

I feel like I am crazy, but I don’t understand these posts, Spangled. For all intents and purposes, in CK9++ we were both town. If we are town here, would you not expect our play to be similar to that game? Nothing in my 1082 asked for meta or tone about your play, but the fact that you preempted any answer about your meta and tone is weird. Why did you feel compelled to tell me that CK won’t be helpful in determining your alignment when I never asked you that? Why did you feel compelled to say that CK will be useless to determine my alignment when I never asked you that?

We were not, for all intents in purpose, both town. An SK still has things to hide, and a tone that is not that of town because the worldview is not that of town. But it’s not the same worldview or tone that scum have, either, because the goals, while similar, are very fundamentally different.

And this will sound weak, but it was a thought that popped into my head, unprompted. And that thought is more or less correct. Sure, I might glean some things from your play then compared to your play now, but they would be so

very

small, and so for me, I imagine; IC is actually a very different mindset to town, believe it or not. I mean, you might glean some things, but I doubt it.

[Spangled]

Have you read the thread yet, Gobble?
Any thoughts, perchance, to give?

[Spangled]

2 and a half days and we’re waiting on someone to read now that they’ve repped in, and we have someone else whose four-day V/LA ends today. Ugh. This situation sucks.

[Spangled]

But like I said, I townread everyone. You’re just a low townread.

I can understand this; everyone’s been too bloody townie so far.
By the way, why is Hectic so far down on your readslist? And why am I?

If someone shoves another vote on LUV, I could hammer in ~24 hours. I really want to see a proper

response

, though, not just trying to BoP someone and making half-hearted defences.

[Spangled]

i see, i honestly see it as likely

since we know 1 in 5 in the coalition is scum, the other scum is either in the other 4 in the coalition, or the 4 not in the coaltion, so 50/50 in terms of odds alone, though it's 3/3 now

why do you think 1 scum outside is more likely? because scum are actively trying to keep 1 of them out? i don't think that's as much as a focus as you guys think, especially because of what seems to be meta here

though it's skewed from our perspectives i guess. i like both Spangled and gobbly so i currently think it's 2 in

something like Gamma/Espresso + LUV is possible
even if we follow your logic of scumtrying to keep one of them out, scum!LUV lurks and doesn't contribute much since he expects Gamma/Espresso to be in the coaltion, and he gets unexpectedly added in last minute

I could take this solve. I’m not super sure on Gobble being town, but I’m willing to trust my initial thoughts on Clem’s entrance to back the read up, at the very least toDay.

[Spangled]

I think we need a lynch here. Going to read the last few pages thoroughly but a mislynch is infinitely preferable to two no-lynches, or one no lynch and a lynch in MyLo (or whatever), because no lynches just let scum dictate who is going to MyLo - we need both the scummy and the hard-to-read people out of the way so that we have a LyLo that benefits us, not scum. Yes kill choice can be interesting, but there's all kinds of WIFOM scum can play with there, whereas a flip and wagon on town's terms can give all kinds of information - and hopefully scumflips too

[Spangled]

I'm cool with a Gamma lynch; their nonchalance and weird tone is ultimately NAI, and if those are gone my (much earlier) point about their sheepiness and weird changing of reads stands. I do want to know from everybody, though, especially Gamma and LUV - what scumteams do you think can there be, at this point, making no foolish assumptions about 1-in-1-out or not?

[Spangled]

I'm cool with a Gamma lynch; their nonchalance and weird tone is ultimately NAI, and if those are gone my (much earlier) point about their sheepiness and weird changing of reads stands. I do want to know from everybody, though, especially Gamma and LUV - what scumteams do you think can there be, at this point, making no foolish assumptions about 1-in-1-out or not?

Well this is what is making this so hard. If LUV was hellbent on Espresso scum, why suddenly jump on Gamma once Gg started a wagon on him?

Yeah...
I mean, was he hellbent on scum!EP though?
Also, do you prefer LUV or Gamma?

[Spangled]

I want to hammer pretty soon; I won’t be online leading up to the deadline. I could vote LUV though. So Gamma — convince me you’re town, case LUV, etc. I see you online; please, go!

[Spangled]

Well, if you think LUV is scum, why is he? Gobble reckons in 1227 that some of LUV’s posts are towntells. What do you think of that?
What in LUV’s actions (or lack thereof) is scummy?
If LUV is scum, who’s his partner? Why?
Case him for me; get him if you’re town and want a town win.

[Spangled]

What did you think of Gob’s entrance?
Why isn’t LUV town?

[Spangled]

Come on; help me!
What are your reads right now, and why?
If we lynch LUV and he flips green, who’s scum?

[Spangled]

@Spangled, does Gamma feel like he did in CK9++?

@Gamma, does Spangled feel like he did in CK9++?

@EP, tl;dr me your scumread on LUV

@NC39, why did you guys kill outside of the coalition yesterday?

@everyone, what were RCMA's reads at the time of their death?

Will get to this later tonight.

Honestly this post feels very busybody-like, it doesn't escape me that it was targeted at the coalition members minus LUV. I think gobs-LUV is actually a valid scumteam here.

As for why LUV "isn't town", I feel like that's asking why I don't think there are reasons to townread him which I don't see any presented rn

So you think that the posts quoted in 1227 weren’t towntells?

[Spangled]

Oh, yeah, Gobble. Why

were

the posts quoted in 1227 towntells?

[Spangled]

I think it would be really ridiculous for scum to think that and type those things.

I really don’t see it. Why can’t he BoP someone as scum, or call himself obvtown for... disengaging?

[Spangled]

BoP as scum? Which post is a BoP post?

I think the appeal to Nancy was town and then the ridiculousness of the obvtown statement is likely to come from town. I wouldn’t be sad if we moved onto LUV, but I’m liking Gamma for right now more than LUV.

He was trying to BoP Nancy, saying — ‘remember that game, where I was town? I’m behaving the same now’
or something
but it’s not hardtown for me; you can know you’re being pretty like your towngame and appeal to someone who knows you well as scum. You’re right that it is +town, though...

The other thing was pretty crazy... but it still doesn’t make him town. Scum sometimes post things which give them more attention. He might even be banking on this exact thing.

[Spangled]

What did you think of Gob’s entrance?
Why isn’t LUV town?

Come on; help me!
What are your reads right now, and why?
If we lynch LUV and he flips green, who’s scum?

@Spangled, does Gamma feel like he did in CK9++?

@Gamma, does Spangled feel like he did in CK9++?

@EP, tl;dr me your scumread on LUV

@NC39, why did you guys kill outside of the coalition yesterday?

@everyone, what were RCMA's reads at the time of their death?

Will get to this later tonight.

Honestly this post feels very busybody-like, it doesn't escape me that it was targeted at the coalition members minus LUV. I think gobs-LUV is actually a valid scumteam here.

As for why LUV "isn't town", I feel like that's asking why I don't think there are reasons to townread him which I don't see any presented rn

So you think that the posts quoted in 1227 weren’t towntells?

@Gamma

[Spangled]

Not quite — what are

all

of your reads?
What did you think of

all

of Gob’s entrance-section?

[Spangled]

I've respond to all of those; don't gaslight me

And yeah, sorry, your posts and Gob’s didn’t come up in pedit for whatever reason.

[Spangled]

I've respond to all of those; don't gaslight me

And yeah, sorry, your posts and Gob’s didn’t come up in pedit for whatever reason.

But this isn’t you off the hook!

Explain

everything. C’mon, go. 1331 still stands.

[Spangled]

Town: Spangled, EP, NC 39
Nullish: Hectic
Scum: gobs, LUV
Reads off the cuff

As for what I think of "gob's whole entrance", you're gonna have cv to define that better.

If you ISO him, his first six posts or something.

[Spangled]

Probably Spangled, I think his efforts are some of the strongest this game

What about if we lynch LUV?

[Spangled]

@Gob
What made you change your mind from 1117 to now?

[Spangled]

@NC
Do you prefer LUV or Gamma to kick the bucket?

[Spangled]

VOTE: LUV

Wait what?
You’re taking back that whole ‘he towntelled’ thing?
Why? How?

[Spangled]

I think town has a better chance with Gamma in it than LUV. We very well could be arguing over two town kills right now and if we are I would rather Gamma be left alive.

I could... maybe get behind this.
If they’re both town though, who is scum?

[Spangled]

I think town has a better chance with Gamma in it than LUV. We very well could be arguing over two town kills right now and if we are I would rather Gamma be left alive.

I could... maybe get behind this.
If they’re both town though, who is scum?

But what made you drastically change your read on Gamma to town, though?

[Spangled]

@NC
Who are you talking to, in 1354?
And what post are you responding to?
(I’m assuming it isn’t mine).

[Spangled]

Susie = Uzi. I’m using voice to text

I take it that ‘egg noreen’ is ignoring, then?

[Spangled]

aeiou

Thoughts on Gob’s read-switching on you and LUV?

[Spangled]

aeiou

Thoughts on Gob’s read-switching on you and LUV?

I think he is acting like a chicken with its head cut off. I'm having trouble seeing the rhyme or reason to what he's doing. Like he makes that suggestion but he has no real alternative direction based on that. I feel like there is enough people present to CFD if desired.

What does CFD stand for?
Something to do with lynching him?

Now

?

[Spangled]

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

If he truly believes this, then shouldn’t he be concerned about Gamma possibly being mislynchbait?

Did he suddenly switch his sr of Espresso/me to Gamma?

or doesn’t he care who gets lynched other than him?

Gobble... could actually be scum. Bloody hell Nancy you’re awesome — and double awesome if Gobble flips scum. We only have 3 online now though.
And the one thing that gives me pause is that I understood where he was coming from as regards everyone being townie... but scum could say that too.

[Spangled]

Chinese Fire Drill, it's a term for a wagon that forms very quickly. I am cognizant of the looming deadline rn. And like if people are up to vote gobs I can do that

4 is required for majority; there’s only me, you and NC on (discounting Gobble).
I’m willing to see what we can do though, and where this goes VOTE: Gobbledygook

[Spangled]

Chinese Fire Drill, it's a term for a wagon that forms very quickly. I am cognizant of the looming deadline rn. And like if people are up to vote gobs I can do that

4 is required for majority; there’s only me, you and NC on (discounting Gobble).
I’m willing to see what we can do though, and where this goes VOTE: Gobbledygook

Probably the most antitown vote this game. We can’t afford to look outside the coalition a second day in a row.

For goodness’ sake, man; you’re trying to lynch one of two people you think are probably town because one has more +town function, and you’re throwing shade on

me

?
C’mon. I am scared that you’ll flip town here but you’re not helping me see it from your pov, dude.

[Spangled]

So...
Where are the votes at...
and can we lynch Gob at this point?

Gob, why shouldn’t we?

[Spangled]

You have to objectively agree voting outside the coalition is antitown. There’s really no way around that.

I think that Gamma and Luv have both done scummy things and townie things. I could see a world where they are both town. I could see a world where they are both scum or individually scum. I think the most likely world is Luv is scum and Gamma town. I liked Gamma’s answers to all our questions. In particular when he speculated that you would be the nightkill, I thought that post was fairly town.

I had thought Luv could be town because of the posts I quoted. After thinking about it on my drive, I’m not sure how much faith I want to put into those posts. NC brought up good points that it was weird he readily went for Gamma. I also was thinking about why he wouldn’t address me or my lurker scum meta case against him when we played a game together as scum that just finished. I feel like that is weird. Given that Gamma is more present than Luv, I think Luv is a further utility kill in that regard.

Does this make sense now for my POV?

Frick. It does.
You know what — I don’t have enough time; I need sleep desperately and I’m so unsure and I would take either you or LUV but in no universe will we get you no matter how sure we would be of it, and I’m not bloody sure of it at all. Someone in this game is having a fantastic scum game, I think. We literally can’t get gobble today, and I need sleep. VOTE: LUV
I doubt I’ll be around before the deadline but I might be, but don’t hedge any bets on that.

[Spangled]

@NC
Do you prefer LUV or Gamma to kick the bucket?

I love your phrasing.

I still feel better about Gamma than LUV. I was really unsure until he OMGUS’d me. It’s still not a confident read though. I just hope Gamma isn’t pocketing me.

Gun to head, I still think LUV has higher scum equity than Gamma.

Yeah, I think he does. Everyone, please remember: we have a decent chance of winning this game if we pull our crap together tomorrow. Today, LUV — tomorrow, the world. Thank you, and please, vote SPANGLED FOR PRESIDENT 2020!
Goodnight, everyone.

[Spangled]

Also I passed 1000 but didn’t even notice it. This may seem petty and small to all of you, with your 30 thousands post totals — but finally, my title is almost as long as my username. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be. Like my sleep cycle won’t be, if I do not sleep now.

[Spangled]

Actually Gob is prob town for another reason. If I accept Gamma as town, then why would scum!Gobble help me help Gamma prove his townie-ness via those questions? At least for toDay, this can be town.

[Spangled]

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

If he truly believes this, then shouldn’t he be concerned about Gamma possibly being mislynchbait?

Did he suddenly switch his sr of Espresso/me to Gamma?

or doesn’t he care who gets lynched other than him?

Gobble... could actually be scum. Bloody hell Nancy you’re awesome — and double awesome if Gobble flips scum. We only have 3 online now though.
And the one thing that gives me pause is that I understood where he was coming from as regards everyone being townie... but scum could say that too.

You really think Gobble could be scum?

Oh dear goodness I thought that the post you quoted there was a post by Gob.
Far out. I’ve misinterpreted all kinds of references made this last hour. The case on Gob, such as it was, vanishes completely, I think.

[Spangled]

@mod
V/LA for the next ~40 hours.

[Spangled]

That... was an interesting NK choice. I wasn’t quite sold on town!Gob, myself — so scum was either convinced we’d see him as town the next day, or was scared of him, or wants to use his conf!town status for something.
That’s all the thoughts I have right now; I’ll revisit this game later and more after my V/LA ends.

[Spangled]

@Spangled, @Hectic, @Gamma, care to weigh in before I bash my head into a wall?

I cannot sort this game out in my mind; I’m sorry. I know this is a pathetic excuse but I’ve slept about 2 hours in the last 24; I’ll get to this as soon as I can.

[Spangled]

Uh... Hectic... where did you previously state the idea of an EP/Spangled scumteam... and why/how did you settle on it in the end; what interactions make you think that that particular scumteam is most likely?

[Spangled]

Uh... Hectic... where did you previously state the idea of an EP/Spangled scumteam... and why/how did you settle on it in the end; what interactions make you think that that particular scumteam is most likely?

1055 and 1081 interactions between you two i don't like, and i just think you two are most individually scummy right now after rereading, not 100% sold on Gamma though, could be wrong
don't think i've mentioned it before

Did you read 1067, which was between and in the same exchanges etc.?

and I actually can’t understand how I’m very individually scummy from your pov, and I don’t think you’ve stated anything to back that up, besides how my ‘tone early-game was bad’. I’d love if you could, perhaps, case me...?

[Spangled]

Gonna give thoughts on stuff/do re-evals etc. later today sorry; almost all of today has been consumed by fairly distant family we haven’t seen in a long time coming over. Writing stuff though.

[Spangled]

@Spangled, who are you currently most leaning scum on?

Frick if I know.
I want to townlock you Nancy, but something is holding me back and I don’t have a clue as to what it is.
Honestly I might be coming round to properly tring Hectic but I don’t bloody know why. Maybe them going against the flow as regards me? (But honestly I don’t understand that at this point so... ??)
Somewhat similarly, I feel like I kind of

want

to scumread EP, but goodness if I know why. I don’t feel like they’ve... I don’t know, approached the game well? And some good points have been brought up about them... gotta look at those.
Gamma... kind of fades from my mind? I can’t even remember what I felt about them. Previous end of day I remember moving off them for lynching because I thought their answers etc. were towny, but everyone here has been towny; we’re losing ‘cause we lynched the scummy people, funnily enough.

But it’s all so bloody weak, all of my feelings here. In LyLo I love cases but I can never really make them myself, and this is a rough LyLo; I’ve townread all of you guys at various points, and never really scumread any of you properly. Honestly I want to find someone to sheep because I don’t know

what

to do here.
I might deadsheep, honestly, at this point, particularly Gob. I’ll go back and look.
But I’d love cases from all of you as to why your proposed scumteams etc. are likely.

[Spangled]

Could someone towncase Gamma please?
I don’t know if I see it, to be honest.
And Gob’s reasons for scum!Gamma weren’t awful. But the fact that he moved away from them is kinda telling. But then again it was onto LUV and that was town so...