Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[Hectic]

this looks like fun

HEAL: Hectic, NC 39, Spangled, Alchemist, Espresso

VOTE: RC most awesomest

i can provide a few walls later if people doubt these reads

[Hectic]

this looks like fun

HEAL: Hectic, NC 39, Spangled, Alchemist, Espresso

VOTE: RC most awesomest

i can provide a few walls later if people doubt these reads

can I, without giving a long winded explanation of why these kinds of posts even made ironically throw me off and make me dislike the game, ask everyone who wants to win as town to not do this

what's wrong with me doing this? it's essentially equivalent to throwing out a random vote during RVS, it's not like i actually intend for those 5 to go through

i think you're taking it a little too seriously

[Hectic]

HEAL: Alchemist, RC most awesomest, NC 39, Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum

That’s myself plus the 3 slots I believe to be the strongest slots coming into the game plus Espresso since I liked their entrance.

I think the Coalition should be the 5 strongest/Towniest players not just for the obvious reasons of the D1 wincon but also as a weak investigational tool if it fails - if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.

is it considered a deep wolf if they're just in the top 5 town reads?

regarding the investigation potential, it is useful for knowing there's at least 1 scum in the group, i don't we can even be too confident that there can't be two scum in the 5 we agree on, so the utility isn't actually that useful

[Hectic]

I don’t even know if throwing around lynch votes will be useful until the Coalition is decided on since we can’t lynch before the Coalition is decided.

i think it's still good go throw around votes to show who we suspect and intend to lynch after we decide on the coalition, it'll be useful later on as well when we look back at wagons and potential bussing

also we can still pressure scum with votes which is always good

[Hectic]

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

[Hectic]

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

you mean information over analysis approach? it's page 1, not exactly a lot else to talk about

[Hectic]

huh, so much for that

[Hectic]

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Why

idk, he said hey and agreed with something

other people posted more contenty things i suppose

[Hectic]

yeah, it's pretty interesting, i think scum wants exactly 1 scum in the group of 5, since if they both end up in it, it means they're more likely to be lynched since we're always gonna start lynching in the group of 5 once we know for sure that there's at least 1 scum in it

has town ever won by correctly selecting an all town coalition D1?

[Hectic]

Hey, Hectic, what made you decide on that specific coalition to vote for?
Why me, why NC 39, etc.?

it was a completely arbitrary and random vote, but having thought about it, it's far more useful to see who people are townreading and want in the coalition from the start rather than to just treat it like RVS

so:

HURT: Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, NC 39, Spangled

[Hectic]

so since i like Espresso and Spangled so far:

HEAL: Espresso, Spangled

[Hectic]

i agree, going for an all town coalition is obviously what we go for, i wasn't suggesting we try to get a certain number of scum in there and use it as an investigation check, that doesn't make any sense obviously when we can just win D1

[Hectic]

why do you suspect RCMA, Gamma? i thought his reaction to my heal vote was a little over the top, but i've never played with him before so i'm not sure

[Hectic]

so since i like Espresso and

Spangled

so far:

y?


HEAL: NC 39

HURT: Spangeled

scumhunting and stuff like 46

[Hectic]

were RCMA's first two posts from NSG or RC?

[Hectic]

I find it a bit strange that Hectic is being so normal this game. His town play usually has a chaotic posting + formatting style and he likes to fake claim random stuff.

Either he's getting tired of a 'hectic' playstyle, or this is his scum game. I think it's the latter.

lul, i had a feeling this was gonna come up at some point

i kinda like to go for slightly different playstyles each game, this is gonna be the game i take seriously and don't meme in

[Hectic]

In Skitter’s game, scum!Sky made it a point of objecting to be added to any coalition, in case it failed. The other scum in that game, Urist, I think it was, did make a coalition with him in it but then pretty much flaked afterwards.

isn't that massively anti-town? townie's are confirmed non-scum to themselves so why sacrifice a chance of winning the game D1 for fear of being scumread for being on a failed coalition? tell me he was scumread for that please

[/color]HEAL: Gamma

The Gamma v LUV disagreement looks genuine + Gamma came out of it looking more town.

HEAL: Spangled

Liking Spangled's posting style thus far. I'm not yet certain if the wide coalition read on Spangled is a good or bad thing, but I'm treating it as a good thing for now.

I’ve seen UTRs be scum, but the biggest, most-AI thing is (in my limited experience) why they end up being UTRed. I don’t know how many people here know emps, but he’s been UTRed up until around EoD2 as scum before, mostly due to tone, and a sheer number of posts, most of which were actually pretty contentless, but seemed helpful.
Townreads everyone agrees on win games, though, especially this one.

Also, about the Gamma v LUV thing, I think Gamma came out of it

somewhat

towny, but what did you think about LUV? Did you agree with Gamma on his defensiveness?

what's a UTR? ultra townread?

still liking Espresso, not as sure on Spangled but i'll leave him for now

[Hectic]

hmmm, that post is a little lazy but there was honestly nothing else I read that really sprung out as AI, i'll try again tomorrow

[Hectic]

for my part i'm just going to treat EP like a nonparticipant in the game and hope that we win via coalition not including them regardless of their alignment.

i don't see how a comment like this is justified whatsoever, could RC or someone else point me towards what Espresso has done to tilt RC so much?

[Hectic]

this game is the summation of everything I dislike about mafia and it doesn't help that the most universally healed slot is my top scumread.

never played with this guy before, anyone who has: have you ever seen him act like this as scum?

[Hectic]

Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.

It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.

would you not count 164 as him trying to engage with you?

[Hectic]

I'm liking Hectic's content and reads, but the difference in his playstyle is really nagging at me. It's almost like he's too good to be true now that he's playing normally, and I'm seeing that as a possible scum tactic.

@anyone else who has played with him, what are your thoughts on his behaviour? Do you think the change in his posting style is AI? Why/why not?

He has played every game differently, as far as I’m aware, from my occasional readings of newbie games, each with a different gimmick. It is true that he lacks a gimmick this time... but I don’t know if he’s been scum before or anything about that so...

nope, never rolled scum

HEAL: Hectic
I still have some meta reservations about him, but I like his content. On a brief iso skim:
+ he was willing to retract his RVS coalition vote
+ he's asking about reads and furthering discussion
+ he's being proactive with providing information
+ his reads seem to develop naturally
+ I agree with his reads

- he hasn't changed on his townread of me. Slight chance of this being an attempt at buddying.
- the meta/posting change, as discussed above

Overall, I'm happy with the +'s and think the -'s are probably just me being paranoid.

why is me retracting the RVS coalition vote a town-indicative thing to do? can't it also be seen as scum-indicative since i could be trying to appease the consensus that a coalition RVS is bad?

what's wrong with my townread of you? do you think any parts are fabricated?

[Hectic]

skimming through NC 39's ISO, i like everything he's said so far

though would like to hear your opinion on the RC side of the RCMA hydra

HEAL: NC 39

[Hectic]

i'm basically a nulltownlean on Gamma, he hasn't done anything wrong yet but nothing from him sticks out as massively townie either

eh actually, i like his explanation for why he townreads Spangled

HEAL: Gamma

need to hear a lot more from one Mr. Lil Uzi Vert

[Hectic]

[...]
RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

I was hoping you'd have a bit more to substantiate the read at this point, as scum!nsg could very easily post more. What's your read on the RC head*?

*Note - I find it hard to read hydras. Is it better practice to split the read by head and consolidate later, or approach the read in a holistic manner from the outset?

12 seemed like a typical TownRC post to me but not definitely.

Most people go by reading individual heads if they knows one of the heads well.

since you seem to have experience with town!RC, what about 145 and 149?

Fine.

HURT: NC 39, Gamma Emerald

why those two in particular out of your starting 5?

[Hectic]

skimming through NC 39's ISO, i like everything he's said so far

though would like to hear your opinion on the RC side of the RCMA hydra

HEAL: NC 39

I'm concerned about how they're, like, sliding alongside me
Feels like buddying.

why? his 166 did come before your 169, or are you just talking about his reads in general aligning with yours?

Alchemist:

i see, thanks. what do you think of so many people townreading Spangled? do you agree/disagree?

[Hectic]

if you're ignoring me in forming a read on our slot then what you're doing is focusing on things you find outrageous or things you disagree with and not actually looking for scummy play, and you should take a moment to do some self-reflection on that.

-nsg

so not only did i self-reflect at your suggestion, but i went and really deeply contemplated my actions for a good few days. this was a real eye opener to me and it made me realise something, something huge. something i've been lying to myself about for years. something i'd always known to be true deep inside of me but had constantly repressed to the point of unbearable pain. you know what that was? that's right, i think you already have the answer, and what you were looking for was right in front of you all along

i have now returned with a crystal clear mindset, and am ready to reexamine your ISO

i agree with and have liked everything you've said setup-wise, haven't seen many reads or other content from you, and the ones you have provided are null for me

you answered a question with a question in 160, i'd also like to hear an actual explanation for why you and RC scumread Spangled

[Hectic]

damn sorry, i'm not supposed to be joking around in this game

i think some light JK Rowling is acceptable, otherwise, i'm all about some honest scumhunting and transparency this game

[Hectic]

sorry, i wasn't being snarky, i was just kidding around with nonsense

anyway, I really that analysis on Spangled there, and you bring up some real good points. i did get the feeling earlier with that pop in you outlined, especially his response to the UTR thing given someone had already answered that for me, but i thought it too nitpicky to bring up earlier

putting this here to remind myself to go looking through some past Spangled games to see how often he asks that "Got any reads?" question as either alignment

that's all from me tonight, so for now:

HURT: Spangled
HEAL: RCMA

[Hectic]

VC 1.06 Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest EspressoPatronum (3): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Spangled Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest NC 39 (2): NC 39, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, Spangled RC most awesomest (1): RC most awesomest Clemency (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Hectic, Gamma Emerald Not Voting (7): RC most awesomest, EspressoPatronum, NC 39, Clemency, Lil Uzi Vert, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

didn't Espresso put me down as a heal?

They did! Fixing it now.

- Skygazer

I don’t even know if throwing around lynch votes will be useful until the Coalition is decided on since we can’t lynch before the Coalition is decided.

i think it's still good go throw around votes to show who we suspect and intend to lynch after we decide on the coalition, it'll be useful later on as well when we look back at wagons and potential bussing

also we can still pressure scum with votes which is always good

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Hectic do you still believe what you said about applying pressure with your votes? Do you think your LUV vote is still good?

yes and probably not, if he's not currently reading the thread

VOTE: Spangled

[Hectic]

haven't really properly read the rest of the thread yet, will probably do so in the evening

[Hectic]

I chose not to post my 1500 word rant.

please do

I have to say you’ve been pinging me this whole game. What makes Spangled a good vote in your eyes? How come you seemingly forgot about voting for anyone else this whole time?

i agreed with nsg's case on Spangled, just forgot to change my vote i guess

i've changed my mind on Spangled again, went through some previous games of his looking for that generic "any reads" question in particular

as an innocent child, couple of times:

Hey, FF, any reads to throw out at the moment?

Hey Gamma, any reads to share?

as mafia roleblocker in a newbie game, 0 times

as vanilla town in a newbie game, once:

viewtopic.php?p=11071856#p11071856

as vanilla town in a newbie game, kind of once:

viewtopic.php?p=11083102#p11083102

as a mafia goon in a newbie game, 0 times

not sure if that was worth it, but the fact he's never thrown the question out as scum does say something, and i did notice while control-Fing through that he's a lot more prone to ask people about their thoughts/reads in his town games over his scum games, though the questions are usually more specific. who knows though, maybe's he replicating what he does in his town games as scum here, and he's overdoing it with that generic question since it is way more prominent here than any of his other town games
i like his responses to nsg's case though anyway

HURT: Gamma
HEAL: Spangled

VOTE: Alchemist

[Hectic]

Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?

i think my read is RCMA>Espresso>Spangled>NC 39>Gamma>Clemency/LUV>Alchemist

i know people will question my Alchemist vote, more of a gutread than anything, i'll go looking for actual reasons tomorrow, it's way too late right now

[Hectic]

hmm, i like Great here but i don't know who to take out of my coalition for her

LUV's posts give me scum pings and i agree with Espresso's reasoning on them, but it honestly seems so lazy and LAMIST, that i don't think that's the route scum would take in a game like this where you need to be active and towny in order to be put in the coalition

Alchemist's read on me is actually reasonable as well and it's not like it came out of nowhere, i can understand the reasoning behind it. i just dislike the fact that he hasn't posted a lot of real reads/content throughout this game after skimming through his ISO

i find Espresso's defence of my Alchemist vote a tad bit weird, i don't think i gave good reasoning for it myself. giving me some vibes that he's trying to appease other people likely to be picked for the coalition atm

i'm in a bit of a weird position where i have no real scumreads, i'll have to reread the thread and ISO Espresso tomorrow hopefully. for now, happy for my vote to sit on Alchemist

@Spangled: any reason why you aren't adding people to your coalition? do you not think it's useful for us to see your preferred coalition as it changes?

[Hectic]

i like Gamma's post on the last page as well lol
i think i'm debating everyone to be in my coalition right now except for LUV and Alchemist, but not even sure on LUV given my logic on him earlier

[Hectic]

sky give extension

-nsg

This plz
The short deadline kinda makes forming a decent coalition hard. Even if we just get an extended D1 deadline I'll be happy

The bitching about the deadline is annoying. The coalition is not isn’t the be all end all. I’d be pissed as scum right now if Sky granted this.

this feels towny as well unless LUV is transparent enough as scum to show outrage at something like this

[Hectic]

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

surely scum!LUV knows that this kind of naked vote followed by no activity is gonna do him no favours in getting picked for the coalition, right?

that's what makes me doubtful on him, though i am spilling wine everywhere here i guess

[Hectic]

so i ISOed Espresso and i'm still happy with him the coalition actually

the initial attack/1v1 on RC seems like a bold thing for scum to do, and the cautious kind of tone i was getting from him all game is just his playstyle i think

still like Great

my read on Alchemist at that point was entirely based on the content/reads he'd provided so far being less substantial than others in the game, i couldn't actually pinpoint anything scummy he's done

the more i think about it, the more LUV's recent posts look like a desperate LAMIST attempt by scum to be added in the coalition/not lynched. Like he's complaining about the time extension but then going inactive? he wouldn't have used like the 2 or 3 days we had left if the extension hadn't been granted then

if people want me to paint an Alchemist!scum that i don't actually believe, i can do that though

[Hectic]

I don’t even know if throwing around lynch votes will be useful until the Coalition is decided on since we can’t lynch before the Coalition is decided.

why can't we do both at the same time? gives us less time to find someone to lynch. he disagreed but now he's voting for me?

I promise if it fails I won’t immediately point fingers at your slot because I know how you feel about people lynching you just based on your reputation as a strong scum player.

appeasing RC, why does he need to post this?

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

like really how good is this meta read? it's based on the sample size of exactly ONE other RCMA game as far as i can tell where NSG was inactive, and RC was active when they were scum there. this seems like an easy excuse to start buddying the RCMA slot, especially given RC's hostility at Espresso at the time

[...]
RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

I was hoping you'd have a bit more to substantiate the read at this point, as scum!nsg could very easily post more. What's your read on the RC head*?

*Note - I find it hard to read hydras. Is it better practice to split the read by head and consolidate later, or approach the read in a holistic manner from the outset?

12 seemed like a typical TownRC post to me but not definitely.

Most people go by reading individual heads if they knows one of the heads well.

read with no explanation

His whole thought process on EP feels like Town RC.

2nd part has been answered in an earlier post.

read with no explanation, nice and easy to townread RC based on stuff like "feels like town RC i've played with before"

Hectic do you still believe what you said about applying pressure with your votes? Do you think your LUV vote is still good?

priming himself to scumread me after no matter how i answer this question

But do you agree with the thought process?

No. I have EP as Town.

another read with no explanation

I have to say you’ve been pinging me this whole game. What makes Spangled a good vote in your eyes? How come you seemingly forgot about voting for anyone else this whole time?

look at that last question: there's no way to answer it other than "yeah, i forgot", he's painting the narrative that i'm lying with that "seemingly forgot"

You’ve asked me exactly one thing and in the very next post Gamma pointed out your question had been answered already.

fair point I guess although you were plenty of capable of expanding on why you didn't have a town read on us and we are close to DL so isn't about time to start sharing your view of the gamestate?

How do I expand on a nullread? I can’t.

explain why he doesn't townread or scumread the slot? loves dodging actually explaining his reads

It was mainly his tone at first. It sounded like he was constructing his posts to sound good; formal is too strong of a word for what his tone was but it didn’t seem casual and relaxed to me. Looking at his completed Newbie game though it seems that’s just the way they post but I still couldn’t shake the vibe and since he was the one who initially advocated for pressure votes it makes me wonder why we haven’t seen much of him actually doing that.

so he saw my tone is NAI, or even town-indicative since he looked through a newbie game where i was town, so he's essentially scumreading me because i forgot to change my vote and that's it? again with painting this narrative thing that i didn't forget. like why would i express an opinion like that as scum early in the game and then just leave it?

I could probably have a good read on NC 39 if I knew which head made which posts.

Lul, gonna be honest, i didn't realise NC 39 was a hydra until i read this

Alchemist: i see, thanks. what do you think of so many people townreading Spangled? do you agree/disagree?

I was actually a little surprised at how many were Townreading them when I checked the VC. They’re null to me.

Do you have any kind of read on me now?
What about Hectic?

You’re still null to me. I don’t trust your self-meta to pin you down as Town. It might help me if you tell me why you think Great is Towny. I don’t want Great in the Coalition and I have a reason for it but I want to hear your reason for including them first.

Hectic’s still a scumread.

woah, actually explains his reads. i'm not trying to misrep btw, i know he does explain SOME other reads in his other posts, i'm obviously going to point out cases where he doesn't though. no expansion on his scumread for me because he doesn't actually have anything substantial other than the "forgetting to vote" thing

The more it went on the more it seemed to me that NC 39/Gamma interaction was T/S. Gamma being willing to reconsider makes them look better but at this point I think I’m pretty confident in calling NC 39 Town.

HEAL: NC 39

nice appeasement and excuse to putting NC 39 in a coalition, like why does it read as T/S?

I’m also warming up to Spangled. They’ll probably end up as my 5th Coalition vote.

some more appeasement, getting his coalitionbloc together without actually providing explanation for his top coalition reads


that's all, think i've convinced myself a little with that actually lol

[Hectic]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

it'd be between LUV/Alchemist for the lynch for me as everyone else still feels towny

want to fit Great into my coalition but seems people are starting to drop me so probably doesn't matter. if i'm talking about my 5 biggest townreads, i think it'd be:

RCMA, Espresso, Great, Spangled, NC 39

i'd need to reread the thread to see who i'd throw out for myself but kinda busy today

[Hectic]

hi, I am still alive.
unfortunately, also very busy so I'll catch up on this game in approximately 5 hours

[Hectic]

what do you want me to vote? i'll catch up in a bit but i can vote a coalition through if you're worried about inactives not coming online in time

[Hectic]

HURT: ALL
HEAL: RC, NC 39, LUV, Espresso, and Gamma

[Hectic]

And NOW we have a problem.

3 people outside of the Coalition voting for it is a red flag.

HURT: Gamma

HEAL: Alchemist21

huh now this feels like an overreaction considering i said i'm just voting this temporarily in case people think i wouldn't come online in time to vote one through

better to try a coalition than none at all

Alchemist using this as reasoning for trying to slip himself in?

anyway got some time so catchup begins now

[Hectic]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

Hectic, if I see this (below), what else am I supposed to think than that it’s a kind ‘relevatory scumread’?

- snipped case on Alch -
that's all, think i've convinced myself a little with that actually lol

Want to speak up on this, Spangled's like, summary of what happened last page made realize Hectic's actions were pretty bad. I agree it probably makes Hectic and Alchemist TvS, don't think scum would do that to a partner, but I haven't thought that over too much.

why are my actions bad?
the aim of my case on Alchemist was to actively TRY and twist everything he said as scum-motivated, so of course some of the points are weak. i'm pretty sure i clarified this at the time of making that post. this reasoning seems weak considering you acknowledged my saying that in a previous post with that rolling emoji, ya know? (after Alchemist similarly over reacted to it)

and yes, i did convince myself slightly with my case on Alchemist, some of the points i actually believe, off the top of my head, the one where he asked me a question about "seemingly forgetting" to vote for people, and his reads lacking explanations all game

[Hectic]

liking NC's questioning of Great here and i agree with a lot that they're saying

[Hectic]

I’m not sr Hecking but it doesn’t look like my coalition will pass. Especially with nsg now not including him, so

HURT: Hecking

Sorry man.

HEAL: Alchemist

lul stop calling me hecking

would like to hear some explanation from nsg for why i'm still null or scum, though maybe i'll see some in the next few pages

[Hectic]

If we believe that coalition is all town, anyone who’s not voting for this without a good reason is scum. Let’s go people!

hmmmm, kinda liking Spangled less and less, i know this is a joke, but it feels like a scum joke, ya know?

also don't like how reasonable he's being with nsg and how he's so okay with being excluded

[Hectic]

@nsg I trust Hectic to help make the coalition happen, so I'm counting him as a 4th vote to back this coalition.

Nobody should ever be putting Hectic in their Coalition.

scummy scum scumming

your initial SR on me was literally only based on me forgetting to pressure with my vote. the tone thing was irrelevant as you said yourself, it was the same as my newbie game

then i make a case where i'm trying to see if i can find anything scummy from your posts since my read on you is a gut read, and you overreact again

[Hectic]

changed my mind on Great, i think i'd do the following:

Hectic>RCMA>NC 39>Espresso>LUV>Gamma>Spangled>Great>Alchemist

don't judge me too much on the ordering please

and yes, i'm reluctant on LUV and can see his actions coming from both alignments but i don't know what to think of Gamma and people seem to like LUV

[Hectic]

HURT: ALL
HEAL: Hectic, NC 39, Espresso, LUV, RCMA
will sub myself out for Gamma if required

[Hectic]

since i'm clearly not getting in:

HURT: ALL
HEAL: Gamma, NC 39, Espresso, LUV, RCMA

unlikely to win based on probability alone from my point of view, but hey, you never know

[Hectic]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Hectic]

i'll be honest, i don't really have much clue what's going on this game

but Espresso, why is it favourable for scum!NC to get 2 scum in the coaliton, don't scum want exactly one in there since we're inclined to lynch from the coalition since we now know there's at least 1 scum in there?

[Hectic]

oh i see

[Hectic]

i'll be honest, i don't really have much clue what's going on this game

but Espresso, why is it favourable for scum!NC to get 2 scum in the coaliton, don't scum want exactly one in there since we're inclined to lynch from the coalition since we now know there's at least 1 scum in there?

i'd like to clarify that this was NOT by nsg

[Hectic]

i agree LUV is a decent lynch here, still dislike Alchemist though and would be happier with that

i'll have to reISO Great to see what exactly she's done which is scummy

[Hectic]

Ffs Hectic who could I be scum with at this point?

anyone on the coalition that didn't want you on?

[Hectic]

@RC: what's your case on NC 39? did i miss why you're scumreading them?

[Hectic]

@Spangled: i'd like to hear your thoughts on this newbscumness you think i'm exhibiting, do you mean the uncertainty about my reads?

also why do you keep saying my case on Alchemist being bad is a reason to scumread me? do you disagree with me saying i was trying to paint everything he said as scummy, and i found only some of my points to be valid?

[Hectic]

As regards Gamma, 122 and 126 confuse me as a combination. I like their initial progression on me... but then, that progression is townreading me, and after other people started to do the same, so I’m pretty much going to discard that.
Gamma doesn’t express many stances (especially controversial ones) as far as I can see (feel free to prove me wrong though, anyone). Their tone still feels off to me and that pr vs vt explanation still doesn’t sit well with me.

I do like how he reconsidered NC 39, but a lot of his reads are go-with-the-flow kind ones; he trs me when others start to, he trs RCMA when others start to, he reconsiders me when RCMA cases me, he trs NC 39 when other start to, he srs Hectic when I start to... like out of all the slots I’ve looked at I think I like this least; the lack of some really individual reads that others didn’t have first I don’t like. I don’t think anyone’s online now so I’m going to plant my vote here because right now is the last time toDay I’ll be online.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

this is quite interesting and will sheep it if nothing better presents itself

though Espresso's theory on lynching LUV to see if NC + LUV is a thing too could be interesting

apologies for being useless

[Hectic]

i'll do this for now until Gamma gets on to respond to that case:

VOTE: LUV

[Hectic]

and yes, i still don't like Alchemist but clearly no one else wants to lynch him today

his response to me earlier was a whole lot of "oh, i wouldn't do this is i was scum" which is LAMIST? and pretty bad

[Hectic]

We're down to 8 hours. My vote is on LUV, but I could go for Gamma as well.

I will check in occasionally over the next few hours + will swap my vote as needed to achieve a lynch.

same

[Hectic]

lul

[Hectic]

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

i think it's reasonable to vote within the coalition for D1, just by probability alone

473 is my crappy case on Alchemist

who do you want to lynch?

[Hectic]

lul, RCMA is obvtown here now, right?
unless someone can say they've seen RC do this before as scum?

still happy to lynch Alchemist. 721 is just so bad and he's contributed nothing of value since

my preference atm is Alchemist>LUV>Gamma/Great?

VOTE: Alchemist

[Hectic]

I'll probably get scumread for saying this but I think it's pretty unfair to scum to have the deadline extended here.

gotta agree with you there
like of course town are going to want an extension given how long we took to decide on a coalition
lpart of scum's strat today could be delaying the resolution of an agreed upon coalition so that there's not a lot of time to discuss a lynch
and this extension effectively negates that

anyway, i should shut up

[Hectic]

though the fact Sky has given an extension probably means the scum weren't actively trying to delay a coalition for near deadline lynch strats, since she'd be a lot less likely to give it then if they were discussing that in their PT

point still stands though

[Hectic]

I'd vote Alchemist

Why are you considering voting outside the coalition?

because Alchemist is scummy?

[Hectic]

hey Gamma, what's your response to Espresso?'s case on you?

[Hectic]

*Spangled's case

[Hectic]

though the fact Sky has given an extension probably means the scum weren't actively trying to delay a coalition for near deadline lynch strats, since she'd be a lot less likely to give it then if they were discussing that in their PT

point still stands though

actually this depends on if LUV is scum. they'd be all for an extension if he is since he was the likely lynch

anyway sorry, discussing this is kind of useless

[Hectic]

Actually, I want a readslist from everyone, including would/would not include in coalition.

My thinking rn
Town, would include in coalition: myself, RCMA, Spangled, EP
Town, would not include in coalition: Hectic OR Alchemist, YAG
Null: NC 39
Scum: LUV, Hectic OR Alchemist
Fyi YAG is in the tier she is because I don't think anyone has discussed her as a coalition option and I'm trying to be mindful of the collective here.

remind me why you wanted one of me and Alchemist in but you weren't sure which one of us?
i think i know why but i want to hear from you

[Hectic]

oh, that was for not including

same question but for your scum section then

[Hectic]

@Great: explain your hectic and NC scumreads please, and why you think there's exactly 1 scum in there

[Hectic]

sky give extension

-nsg

This plz
The short deadline kinda makes forming a decent coalition hard. Even if we just get an extended D1 deadline I'll be happy

The bitching about the deadline is annoying. The coalition is not isn’t the be all end all. I’d be pissed as scum right now if Sky granted this.

@Espresso: Outside of the coalition, I would lynch LUV>Great

torn about LUV though, like the quote above, how likely is Sky to extend the day if scum are so openly against it in the thread like this?

but then i don't like LUV's pop ins this game and i dislike his buddying of RCMA so i'm not sure

[Hectic]

oh and his LAMIST posts earlier in the game

[Hectic]

Gamma's responses are really lazy but they feel genuine to me, like he's not overreacting or being really defensive, just taking the criticism as criticism of his town game

[Hectic]

@Hectic
I really don’t want to do this mod-WIFOM game; I don’t think it will help us considering all the corollaries and possibilities — scum!LUV could have given an okay in the PT but been opposed to it in-thread, etc, etc. It is a waste of time.

fair enough, NAI then

[Hectic]

Gamma's responses are really lazy but they feel genuine to me, like he's not overreacting or being really defensive, just taking the criticism as criticism of his town game

I just feel like in his cop game he was actually more active and proactive and less sheepy, which seems like the opposite to what you’d expect...
I’m very conflicted on how to read his general nonchalance, actually.

yeah, i'm in two other games with him but they're both ongoing, so can't comment unfortunately

[Hectic]

Gamma's responses are really lazy but they feel genuine to me, like he's not overreacting or being really defensive, just taking the criticism as criticism of his town game

I just feel like in his cop game he was actually more active and proactive and less sheepy, which seems like the opposite to what you’d expect...
I’m very conflicted on how to read his general nonchalance, actually.

yeah, i'm in two other games with him but they're both ongoing, so can't comment unfortunately

[Hectic]

lul, RCMA is obvtown here now, right?
unless someone can say they've seen RC do this before as scum?

still happy to lynch Alchemist. 721 is just so bad and he's contributed nothing of value since

my preference atm is Alchemist>LUV>Gamma/Great?

VOTE: Alchemist

How is RC’s alignment relevant to Alchemist’s?

I think RC is obvtown regardless.

did i say it was?
but obvtown RC scumreading Alchemist does make me more happy with my read

[Hectic]

sky give extension

-nsg

This plz
The short deadline kinda makes forming a decent coalition hard. Even if we just get an extended D1 deadline I'll be happy

The bitching about the deadline is annoying. The coalition is not isn’t the be all end all. I’d be pissed as scum right now if Sky granted this.

@Espresso:

Outside of the coalition, I would lynch LUV>Great

torn about LUV though, like the quote above, how likely is Sky to extend the day if scum are so openly against it in the thread like this?

but then i don't like LUV's pop ins this game and i dislike his buddying of RCMA so i'm not sure

LUV was inside the coalition, so why then Alchemist > GREAT?

Why aren’t you voting LUV or GREAT then?

whoops, i meant LUV>Great inside the coalition, but Great wasn't even in the coalition so disregard please

outside the coalition: Alchemist>>Great

inside the coalition: LUV>>Gamma?>???

[Hectic]

sky give extension

-nsg

This plz
The short deadline kinda makes forming a decent coalition hard. Even if we just get an extended D1 deadline I'll be happy

The bitching about the deadline is annoying. The coalition is not isn’t the be all end all. I’d be pissed as scum right now if Sky granted this.

@Espresso: Outside of the coalition, I would lynch LUV>Great

torn about LUV though, like the quote above, how likely is Sky to extend the day if scum are so openly against it in the thread like this?

but then i don't like LUV's pop ins this game and i dislike his buddying of RCMA so i'm not sure

oh and his LAMIST posts earlier in the game

Gamma's responses are really lazy but they feel genuine to me, like he's not overreacting or being really defensive, just taking the criticism as criticism of his town game

^these basically, Spangled

[Hectic]

Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-14 23:59:59).

votes for LUV and Alchemist are curently:

Lil Uzi Vert (3): Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum, Alchemist
Alchemist21 (3): RC most awesomest, Hectic, Spangled

put your vote down, NC

[Hectic]

interested to hear what the sample size is

still all for lynching Alchemist, could you put your vote back on please, RC?

[Hectic]

oh, i'm a bit late

[Hectic]

you're flailing

i think me saying that makes us both more likely to be scum now, so even happier with this lynch

/s

[Hectic]

can we hammer before i call it a night?
want to see this flip

[Hectic]

sending my thoughts and feelings over to you guys while i'm away

@mod: V/LA 17th to the 21st.

[Hectic]

ayy i'm back

briefly skimmed through and stuff has happened i guess

yes we should prefer to lynch in the coalition, but lynching the scummiest player is more important imo

also, i don't scum would put THAT much of a focus on getting 1 scum in, and one scum out of the coalition, their main focus D1 is just gonna be getting townread enough so that at least one of them is included in
actually removing their scum buddy from the coalition if they both have a chance of being in is just far too obvious and not something that's too likely
WIFOM and all that. Espresso was the one basing a lot of logic on it iirc, didn't really like that post, because i don't think it's that much if a focal point, and i disagree with stuff like "it would be suicide for scum to both be in the coalition" - well no, it wouldn't at all because we have people assuming there'll be 1 in and 1 out, WIFOM basically

anyway, i like this turkey guy, back to townreading that slot

question to gobbled: why am i your 2nd biggest scumread (or 2nd lowest townread)?
question to NC: when you say i'm scum, are you talking about who you think is scum outside the coalition?

and yeah, LUV is a good lynch but i would like to see him weigh in
best wishes to Gamma on a speedy recovery btw, hope you're up and running at 100% very soon

people are overanalyzing why RCMA was killed, the simplest reason is because they were consensus town, not because of this kill inside/outside the coalition nonsense, i think you guys are putting far too much emphasis on scum ensuring there's 1 in and 1 out - we should just treat it as knowing there's at least 1 scum in the coalition because we know that for a fact, we shouldn't think too much about inside/outside otherwise

Gamma would be my second pick for scum in the coalition after LUV. i still townread NC

Espresso is mixed, still a townread overall

probably forgot people but I'll have more to say tomorrow

[Hectic]

i see, i honestly see it as likely

since we know 1 in 5 in the coalition is scum, the other scum is either in the other 4 in the coalition, or the 4 not in the coaltion, so 50/50 in terms of odds alone, though it's 3/3 now

why do you think 1 scum outside is more likely? because scum are actively trying to keep 1 of them out? i don't think that's as much as a focus as you guys think, especially because of what seems to be meta here

though it's skewed from our perspectives i guess. i like both Spangled and gobbly so i currently think it's 2 in

something like Gamma/Espresso + LUV is possible
even if we follow your logic of scumtrying to keep one of them out, scum!LUV lurks and doesn't contribute much since he expects Gamma/Espresso to be in the coaltion, and he gets unexpectedly added in last minute

[Hectic]

Hectic, I mainly scumread you because I thought it was odd you didn’t try to include yourself or fight for yourself to be included. The only time you wanted to include yourself was when LUV was out. An individual townie knows that a coalition with themselves included is more likely to succeed than a coalition without themselves in it.

ah right, interesting. i didn't think i could really fight for myself to be included, anything i say is just self-meta/analysis and NAI imo
i actually included myself in the coalition vote late on just in case people changed their minds on me, but i think NC? asked me to replace myself with the popular choice (Gamma or LUV iirc)

where did you get the impression i only wanted to include myself when LUV was out? i always wanted to be included

[Hectic]

UNVOTE:

Hectic, if LUv is town, who do you think is scum in the coalition?

Gamma individually speaking
can't remember who wanted who in/out to see what LUV!town would mean for that kind of stuff

[Hectic]

Nancy honestly I’m not scum here

. Don’t you remember Mathblade’s flipless game?

Still, this kind of thing is more likely to come from town than scum.

I still tr everyone in the coalition over LUV but would LUV make this kind of post as scum?

really? why?
isn't that just NAI through and through?
it looks really LAMIST and scummy on its own, true, but it fits with the type of game LUV has been playing if he is scum, as in the uninterested slightly lurkery townie he's trying to portray
like the Nancy thing could factor into that, he knows she's a different Nancy but is bringing that up because it explains why he'd be lurking and hoping for her to metaread him, while he knows that's not possible because it's a different Nancy
or he actually just got confused there regardless of alignment


hmm, i see what you mean though, my gut tells me it's town even though it really shouldn't be

[Hectic]

huh, a lot of town vibes from LUV on page 49 though
like so much of it is LAMIST, but it's really reading as genuine..

[Hectic]

I think I want to do this

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Let’s do it.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Um hi
What's going on, kinda out of the loop

hmmmmmmmmmm, the timestamps here kinda suggest to me that Gamma is actively lurking
like he didn't post anything before but then posts a few minutes after the two votes on him?
sorry if it's any way related to your situation though

[Hectic]

I think the thought process is so bonkers/absurd that that’s what makes LUV town. Like he can’t honestly believe he is obvtown if he was scum right?

Nancy, can I interest you in a Gamma vote?

lul, i agree with this

[Hectic]

Plus I think the team is Hectic/Gamma and Hectic gladly put Gamma in over himself

huh, what suggests that to you?

[Hectic]

VC 2.04 Gamma Emerald (2): gobbledygook, Lil Uzi Vert Lil Uzi Vert (1): EspressoPatronum Not Voting (4): Hectic, Spangled, Gamma Emerald, NC 39 With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-23 19:25:00).

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

L-1

[Hectic]

Hectic, I mainly scumread you because I thought it was odd you didn’t try to include yourself or fight for yourself to be included. The only time you wanted to include yourself was when LUV was out. An individual townie knows that a coalition with themselves included is more likely to succeed than a coalition without themselves in it.

ah right, interesting. i didn't think i could really fight for myself to be included, anything i say is just self-meta/analysis and NAI imo
i actually included myself in the coalition vote late on just in case people changed their minds on me, but i think NC? asked me to replace myself with the popular choice (Gamma or LUV iirc)

where did you get the impression i only wanted to include myself when LUV was out? i always wanted to be included

That is untrue. It was Alchemist and Spangled I wanted over you.

i think it was Espresso then

[Hectic]

true, that vote is really opportunistic lol

[Hectic]

hmmmmmmmmmm, the timestamps here kinda suggest to me that Gamma is actively lurking
like he didn't post anything before but then posts a few minutes after the two votes on him?
sorry if it's any way related to your situation though

I mean you both were active lurking, but

no? other than my V/LA, i post every time i read the game

[Hectic]

@Spangled my progression and reasons for LUV

Spoiler:

@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?

NC raises an interesting point, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to put LUV in my coalition.

First, I want active people in my coalition so I have a better chance at correctly sorting them. Putting LUV in because of inactivity and everyone else's behaviour seems backwards.

Second, all of my previous thoughts on LUV still apply. If we consider LUV's universal scum read ("USR") as a town factor in reading him, I'm still left with:

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

LUV, for

two

three

four reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
4. I don't like the OMGUS vote

To expand:

1. My experience thus far has scum lurks surprisingly often. I even advocate for lurker policy lynches in most of my games bcz of how often I've seen scum skate by under the radar by lurking.

2. He wasn't helpful early. Telling us to ignore the mechanics of the game was anti-town. His early RC tr looks like he was trying to avoid attention. Alchemist gave a meta reason for his read, but I recall LUV leaving the TR without any reasons.

3. I disagreed with most of his catch-up posts. I also think that anyone touting a 'low activity' meta for town is doing a disservice to everyone else playing.

4. He again provided no reasons for what he was doing. I'm not even sure if OMGUS is scum indicative, but it's not a good look either way.

And NOW we have a problem.

3 people outside of the Coalition voting for it is a red flag.

HURT: Gamma

HEAL: Alchemist21

Who’s the 3rd?

Spangled

Spangled has GREAT in his. It isn't the same.

m

Oh, whoops. Thought he had completely aligned his with the others.

That makes me feel a bit better about compromising again.

Compromise is the only way I see this coalition getting passed. Everyone is too paranoid and it's making things chaotic.

I don't feel great about LUV in the coalition and I don't know about Gamma, but I'm keeping them in to get the coalition passed.

I also agree that Gamma is more town out of LUV and Gamma.

VOTE: LUV

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote.

@Gg, Hectic? thoughts on this?

so Espresso here didn't want LUV in the coalition badly, but then used that same logic to say NC and LUV could be a thing because NC didn't want LUV in the coalition too?
is that what you're getting at?

[Hectic]

yeah, this game is hard
who was RCMA scumreading again other than Alchemist?

[Hectic]

true, would like to hear some expansion from Espresso on that association actually, seems kinda hypocritical and loosely based
i could see Gamma+Espresso

once again, i don't think the 1 in 1 out is that big of a think
gobbly, are you still basing you reads on that? why do you think it's so likely? isn't this exact approach most people are having this game makes the 1 in 1 out in some ways worse than 2 in?
because once we lynch 1 in the coalition, we're inclined to lynch out because of this meta, so 2 in can actually be not a bad thing at all, if not even an advantage

[Hectic]

holy clucking feathers...

I am thinking that Hectic is town which is like further destroying me

If he is than that probably means two scum in coalition? So, LUV/Espresso wouldn’t be clear then in case of a Gamma scum flip.

like this kind of reasoning is exactly why scum don't have to focus on 1 in and 1 out

[Hectic]

(i mean the reasoning that LUV/Espresso would be clear with a Gamma scumflip)

[Hectic]

and him disappearing right after to not have to answer any questions is pretty scummy
if it's LUV+Gamma, it makes sense though, LUV could tell one of them was getting lynched so an early vote to start the wagon there would be useful for townie points

then again, his nonchalant vote on Gamma does fit the rest of his play this game
like careless posting without thinking, scum would give a little more thought/explanation there. probably
so i'm still leaning Gamma over him right now for the lynch

[Hectic]

So where I’m at is I read Gamma not voting as non-survivalistic but by not voting, even if you and me were to vote LUV, that would still lead to a no lynch, so do we wait for that or should I just hammer Gamma?

let's wait to see LUV respond to accusations even if we're set on Gamma, might be useful to see what he has to say
also. hopefully Espresso returns tomorrow

[Hectic]

good nightkill i think because gobbles was one of my stronger townreads by the end of yesterday
i know this is partly my fault for being absent at the end, but unhappy we lynched LUV there after we started deciding how some of the stuff he was saying was more likely to come from town
remember to not vote btw because we're in LyLo
if i had to guess a scumteam now i would probably say Spangled and Gamma
so afraid of a sleeper wolf in Espresso/NC though despite townreading them whole game, but mostly paranoia i think
remembering NSG's case on Spangled again and don't really like this introductory post by him
like seems to be over analysing i guess? idk, might just be something he always does

very confused all in all, think i need to reread the game, will try and make time for that in the next few days

[Hectic]

alright, time to reread this game

[Hectic]

i like Gamma's early game (P1/P2) play - feels natural and genuine, and i like his talking about him playing scum in this setup before, and his forgetting about losing day 1 in 39 is slightly town-indicative

I was telling Nero that we need to keep an eye on nsg because if she posts, that hydra is more likely to be town. Apparently scum!nsg flakes, so I’m leaning town on RC/nsg hydra for now.

i like NC39's early townread on NSG, bringing up NSG's meta to townread her and it eventually leading to a UTR is town-indicative

Spangled's early game is rubbing me the wrong way, mostly from tone

I find it a bit strange that Hectic is being so normal this game. His town play usually has a chaotic posting + formatting style and he likes to fake claim random stuff.

Either he's getting tired of a 'hectic' playstyle, or this is his scum game. I think it's the latter.

Espresso saying this and then not pushing me for it in future posts is slightly scum-indicative

RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.

I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.

this post is pretty bad tbh, didn't think much of it at the time because i didn't think scum wanted to start a 1v1 with RC so early, but this read is weird, like knowing RC's rep around here, i think he's one of the least likely people to have to give excuses for playing differently

Hmm, 97 where Espresso explains his thoughts is a lot better though

uhhhh, i'm up to page 7 now and kinda forgot to keep commentating on what i'm thinking
i'm just gonna read the whole thing first and then give thoughts

[Hectic]

alright, i think it's Espresso now

on Espresso:

not sure of what to make of Espresso's interactions with RC early

370 ignore the fact Spangled's partner could already be in the coalition

don't really like 475

485 is busywork

don't like 605, like if he scumreads LUV and townreads me, surely town!him would try harder to get me in and leave LUV out? but he accepts it far too easily, there's no push for it before this post either

then 685 and 689? i mean his reads don't line up with the coalition picked at the end so i don't like those two posts

dislike 777, but unsure if it's town!Espresso putting

far

too much emphasis on scum having 1 person in and 1 person out of the coalition, or if he's scum giving out easy pairing/reads based on stuff like this. but the impossible pairings section really rubs me the wrong way, like that's not very helpful, is it? it's self-explanatory that two people outside the coalition can't be scum. gives me the impression he's trying to look helpful basically

halfway through his ISO

[Hectic]

don't like 1021 for similar reasons to before, and looks like more busywork, i could see it being Espresso+Spangled here with him pushing this agenda here

1055 and 1081 seem a little off to me, selling myself on this i think

should i be scumreading someone for the number of 'h's and 'y's in 1406? seems kinda silly, but isn't it more normal to have lots of 'y's after 'wh' to express emphasis in a word? having exactly 4 of each as well? lol, i'll stop, i shouldn't consider this at all

1419 is odd, has been townreading me the whole game and has not expressed anything about me being suspicious before this post. i suspect he made this post because of my talk of him being hypocritical about NC+LUV associations in 1284, but i don't think it's a valid reason to scumread me for, more like i misunderstood. the 1v2 argument part is a little weird too

1420 seems unnecessary after i'd already brought that up in my first post in the day

[Hectic]

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

I also don't see myself winning a 1v2 argument with them, so there's also that.

I’m not liking this post. First, you push LUV as my buddy and now Hectic? He was in my original coalition remember? It’s really beginning to get to me that you clearly aren’t reading my posts at all. :/

this pings me, like is him saying that really indicative that he isn't reading your posts? might have just forgot or not believe in the 1 in 1 out thing anymore

i do think NC vs Espresso is unlikely to be SvS though, so my scumread on Espresso does make NC town here

[Hectic]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum.

So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled.

If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

[Hectic]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum. So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled. If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

I'm at a 50/50 between you and Gamma. Pushing either of you is not counterproductive. Saying otherwise is just an attempt at gaslighting me and taking the focus off of yourself.

Fmpov, it’s obviously the same. Fine, push me then. I’m not the reason coalition failed.

But if you’re going to be useless, I will wait for others who are actually interested in helping figure it out. If you’re town here . . . you know what nevermind. It’s blatantly obvious I’m talking to a brick wall. If you were actually interested in solving this game, you’d try to engage me but I’m not going to waste my time if you persist on refusing.

this pings me as well tbh, why you have to be like this NC?
overall the Espresso/NC interactions today still read as SvT though (with Espresso being the scum)

[Hectic]

okay, now to find his partner

[Hectic]

ugh, rereading the game and ISOing Espresso took way too long, not really bothered right now to properly ISO NC given the post count, and Gamma seems fine from a quick skim, think i'll stick to my Espresso + Spangled solve for now

[Hectic]

Uh... Hectic... where did you previously state the idea of an EP/Spangled scumteam... and why/how did you settle on it in the end; what interactions make you think that that particular scumteam is most likely?

1055 and 1081 interactions between you two i don't like, and i just think you two are most individually scummy right now after rereading, not 100% sold on Gamma though, could be wrong
don't think i've mentioned it before

[Hectic]

Hey Hectic, do you want me to do a line-by-line response to your posts on me?

definitely

[Hectic]

Because he’s been continually pushing me without even given a single reason for it and none of it is making any sense to me. I’m trying really hard to solve this game and it feels like pulling teeth, the way he’s been interacting with me, so I was getting really frustrated by that. I wouldn’t have responded that way, had he even given at least one single reason for this push, which seems to come out of nowhere, so I got fed up with banging my head against a brick wall.

i see, if anything, it does make me townread you a bit more for it, the frustration seems genuine, might be being completely played here but i don't think so

[Hectic]

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

What do you think the deeper meaning would be?

i wasn't sure, that's why i asked, i just thought it a bit odd that she would say "it can't be me because i know i'm town", i mean that's evident for everyone from their perspective, so not really something i see worth bringing up

[Hectic]

Uh... Hectic... where did you previously state the idea of an EP/Spangled scumteam... and why/how did you settle on it in the end; what interactions make you think that that particular scumteam is most likely?

1055 and 1081 interactions between you two i don't like, and i just think you two are most individually scummy right now after rereading, not 100% sold on Gamma though, could be wrong
don't think i've mentioned it before

Did you read 1067, which was between and in the same exchanges etc.?

and I actually can’t understand how I’m very individually scummy from your pov, and I don’t think you’ve stated anything to back that up, besides how my ‘tone early-game was bad’. I’d love if you could, perhaps, case me...?

honestly, i actually townlean both you and Gamma but there's two scum this game, so guessing you right now with Espresso based on the interactions i linked
kinda tired right now, tried reading that post you linked several times now, but not really taking in what it's saying, will re-examine it tomorrow
could try casing you as well, but it'll be similar to the Alchemist one where i'm just trying to look for scummy stuff rather than actually believing it, probably best i do that anyway though, and will do it on Gamma too if i have time

[Hectic]

oh, damn, didn't realise the day was ending so early. really busy till Friday so this is annoying, i'll try and give as much time as i can tomorrow

[Hectic]

am so so sorry about this but just don't have the time to read this game until Friday, so i'm just gonna place my faith in NC at this point and sheep their vote
i'm still on Espresso+Gamma/Spangled from my last engagement of the game
well played if you've bamboozled me, but will login periodically and vote when i see NC has voted

[Hectic]

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

[Hectic]

Sigh. Well played, NC and Gamma. Damn NC deepwolfing to the end.
Sorry for my terrible read on you, Alchemist.

Makes me feel a little better that no one called NC as scum in the dead thread either.