can I, without giving a long winded explanation of why these kinds of posts even made ironically throw me off and make me dislike the game, ask everyone who wants to win as town to not do this
Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]
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this is already a game i have no desire to play.In post 10, Alchemist21 wrote:if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.- RC most awesomest
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my plan always has been and likely always will be to simply pass a coalition of the towniest players – reads above anything else. i fully intend to win day one and i don't believe that making any trade off for the contingency is worth giving up a higher probability of winning.In post 10, Alchemist21 wrote:I think the Coalition should be the 5 strongest/Towniest players not just for the obvious reasons of the D1 wincon but also as a weak investigational tool if it fails - if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.
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yeah, i agree.In post 23, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?
this setup isn't exactly that new, really. there's not a lot in terms of mechanics that hasn't probably already been discussed.
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wrong???In post 34, Gamma Emerald wrote:
No. I think they've gotten close in the past.In post 33, Hectic wrote:has town ever won by correctly selecting an all town coalition D1?
you were literally scum in the game that town won day one????
???
wiki link for the unaware – The Coalition
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mind elaborating? i find it a bit hard to imagine that the posts i've made so far could come across that way, so i'm interested to hear how you got that vibe.In post 65, Gamma Emerald wrote:
NSG seems a little I'd say overzealous, in a not genuine way. Trying too hard is probably the best way to put it.In post 62, Hectic wrote:why do you suspect RCMA, Gamma? i thought his reaction to my heal vote was a little over the top, but i've never played with him before so i'm not sure
in general i try to sign my posts, so you should know when it's me.In post 70, Hectic wrote:were RCMA's first two posts from NSG or RC?
i don't think rc is the kind of person who needs an excuse when he's playing scum.In post 75, EspressoPatronum wrote:RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.
I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.
i said that i scumleaned you because i felt like your posts were somewhat contentless and reminded me of a classic scum tactic of just talking about mechanics in an attempt to make it look like you're solving the game. specifically, the "what's the optimal approach" and other statements like that. i've entered threads the exact same way before as scum, and i've seen others do it not infrequently.
keeping in mind that i've both moderated this setup and played in it – i would say that town has won before by actually just putting towny players in the coalition. sounds simple, but goes against the third point that you noticed of winning by putting readable people rather than towny people – the dark wanderer, skitter, the worst and irrelephant as a collective probably rank among the top scum players on the site, and yet they (along with myself) made up the winning coalition. i really don't think there are any "tricks" or something along that line. i think focusingtoo muchon the mechanic takes is a distraction – figure out your reads, update your coalition accordingly, and try to come to a consensus. that's about the best advice i can give to win the game.
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it's not about my feelings, it's about the fact that it's objectively wrong to do soIn post 63, NC 39 wrote:I promise if it fails I won’t immediately point fingers at your slot because I know how you feel about people lynching you just based on your reputation as a strong scum player.
the only way that feelings come into play is how everyone ~feels~ about the prospect of losing to me
it's not some kind of personal fucking favor to me to treat me like an actual player in a game of mafia- RC most awesomest
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why do you townread spangled? is it just this question?In post 159, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Elaborate? Firstly that's rather vague and second I dont really agree with that read or logic rn.In post 153, RC most awesomest wrote:He says things that scum would say in the manner that scum says them.
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SKYIn post 161, NC 39 wrote:In post 29, Skygazer wrote:With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-08 18:00:00)
why would you run this game with seven day deadlines???
could you give specific examples of what sorting you're looking at, perhaps?In post 163, Gamma Emerald wrote:More that I think his sorting is towny
perhaps you should try to expand that understanding of RC's "normal style"? radiantcowbells is the top poster on the entire website by a margin of overIn post 164, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'm treating you exactly like I treated Formerfish in the Purge game.I have a small understanding of your town game and have concluded you're not playing within that normal style.eight thousandposts.
i was about to begin a statement by saying that i understand where your read is coming from, but on reflection i'm not actually sure that i do. near as i can tell, you're scumreading RC because he's behaving differently than in games you've played with him where he was town. understandable – my question is, to what extent have you factored in the fact that he is playing in a hydra with me, and to what end do you believe any perceived differences in his play would further some scum agenda?
your application of meta seems misguided to me. you also don't seem to have much of an interest in sorting me. when you said "scum!nsg could very easily post more", was that actually backed up by any sort of knowledge regarding me and my habits? or was it a simple dismissal of a meta-based behavioral tell with the reasoning that "it's not hard to just do X or not do Y"?
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Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.
It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.- RC most awesomest
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-shrug-In post 190, Hectic wrote:so not only did i self-reflect at your suggestion, but i went and really deeply contemplated my actions for a good few days. this was a real eye opener to me and it made me realise something, something huge. something i've been lying to myself about for years. something i'd always known to be true deep inside of me but had constantly repressed to the point of unbearable pain. you know what that was? that's right, i think you already have the answer, and what you were looking for was right in front of you all along
i have now returned with a crystal clear mindset, and am ready to reexamine your ISO
i'm making a genuine effort to get anyone who's town to reconsider what i know to be a counterproductive line of discussion and to challenge anyone who's scum and attempting to leverage this situation to their benefit. i'm sorry if i came across as condescending at all, but i don't think there's any need to be snarky towards me.
yeah, i've definitely been not particularly forthcoming with reads. in most games anyways i prefer to sit back and gather more information before really doing or saying anything decisive, but this game especially given that i'm in a hydra i've been putting most of my in the moment thoughts into the hydra PT.i agree with and have liked everything you've said setup-wise, haven't seen many reads or other content from you, and the ones you have provided are null for me
you answered a question with a question in 160, i'd also like to hear an actual explanation for why you and RC scumread Spangled
RC scumread spangled before i did, but i've come around to see where he's coming from. take a look at spangled's pop-in here:
Spoiler:
i don't think there's any actual sorting or even attempt at game-solving in those posts (no offense to spangled). rather, it seems to me like going through posts and just finding things to respond to, perhaps one of the most consistently scum-indicative tells that i've ever encountered. if you believe that our slot has few reads, we should still look like a library compared to spangled's ISO.
here's another thing about me (in addition to the hanging back) that i mentioned in the last coalition setup i completed – i dislike it when people ask the generic question "what are your reads" without any seeming deeper purpose. and when you actually look through spangled's iso – i meanactually really read it– i noticed that there really wasn't much of any solving that i could see beyond that generic question, and i also noticed how often it came up.
Spoiler:
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and this isn't meant as a criticism of anyone – it took RC mentioning a scumread on spangled for me to actually read his ISO in a critical manner and realize that i was being lazy to just write him off as town. i think spangled as he's played so far is an incredibly easy person to townread: he's fairly active, he's responding to discussions in a fairly reasonable manner and he's asking people questions. it's just that when you look closer, i think it becomes apparent that everything he's doing makes a lot of sense coming from the perspective of scum!spangled.In post 194, RC most awesomest wrote:i think it's a significant mistake for anyone to have spangled in their coalition right now and i feel like doing so is literally making the classic mistake that loses towns games: overlooking the silently scummy people coasting by in favor of focusing on the outrageous or distracting things.
there have been no controversial stances from him, and indeed seemingly no strong stances whatsoever. most of his responses are reasonable, yes – but none of them offer any insight into his position as someone uninformed of everyone else's alignment. in fact, i'd say it's quite the opposite:
if you look at this quote, i think it's not a stretch at all to see it as someone who wants to contribute to a discussion in a positive manner but who has no personal stake in the meaning of the discussion (given that they already know the answer). someone who wants to be seen saying something, but who doesn't particularly care about what the other people are saying and what it means aboutIn post 173, Spangled wrote:
I don’t think he’s trying not to engage with you as hard as you think; if you give him time and ask him good, pointed questions, rather than deciding as the be-all and end-all on page 7 that he’s probably scum choosing to ignore larger meta in favour of his own experience of your meta — which people are going to naturally default to, especially if they haven’t actually properly meta’d you — we won’t get any kind of consensus on him for a long time, and it will probably be impossible to do so.In post 172, RC most awesomest wrote:Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.
It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.them.
(basically this is a long version of saying that it kind of reminds me of TMI, although not in the scumslip sense)
i mean, where's the comment about what RC's reaction means for his alignment? where's the "i wonder if scum!RC would say this about EP"? where's the "EP has been playing towny this entire game, he's not trying to discredit you"? there's no comment about anyone's alignment at all, just a comment that RC's being unproductive and that "we won't get any kind of consensus".
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no, i don't have hard data indicating that scum do it at a rate more often than town. (the only scumtell i have hard data for relates to wagon formations.)In post 199, Gamma Emerald wrote:That was poorly stated. Do you have it on record that scum do it more? Could you provide examples if that's the case?
consider it as a part of the larger scumtell of "pretending to contribute" or "lackluster scumhunting".
do you often ask for hard data proving that scumtells are valid, or do you simply disagree with my application of it? (also, i hope you realize that me simply linking games in which scum said "what are your reads" wouldn't really prove anything)
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In post 123, RadiantCowbells wrote:Oversoul was throwing in questions in a way that was pretty safe and common for scum to do, perpetual gather info mode without taking a meaningful stance. Not lockscum but definitely +scum.In post 125, Commie Catgirl Coalition wrote:oversoul's questions make perfect sense from a town perspective and i'm struggling to see why you think theyre specifically "safe" questions scum would ask.In post 1220, northsidegal wrote:Oversoul was lynched. He was a...
Spoiler: Role PM
Night 1 begins now and ends in (expired on 2019-08-11 09:21:59). Should all living players agree, I will accelerate the night.- RC most awesomest
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like i know the kind of reads i have that are usually correct but end up getting shit on by towns because they don't have the skillset to see what i see and this is squarely in that alley
you'll forgive me if your very shallow townread on him doesn't exactly faze me or make me want to change my mind- RC most awesomest
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if that's all you're going to say you don't leave me a lot of room except to say that i think your intuition in 169 for what's genuine, what you think scum would do, and what actions show town motivation are all wildly off. i would wonder who you scumread this game if you still find spangled's posts to show a town desire to solve upon a close reading. (i would imagine it would be people with less content, but that's just my own speculation)In post 205, Gamma Emerald wrote:As for the actual point it goes into, I disagree that Spangled is pretending to contribute, for why see my wall post I made earlier. I don't think what he's posted is pretend contribution.
regardless, if you want to fast track a coalition, i don't think keeping spangled in it is much of a step in the right direction. you don't have to agree with us on the read, but for now i think it's fair to say that from an objective standpoint keeping him in your coalition will only serve to delay a majority consensus.
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i disagree – i think that whatever benefit to town could potentially arise out of your attempt to prevent something seen as counterproductive, the gains you would make as scum in appearing to be playing pro-town would outweigh them. perhaps especially so in a setup like this where being townread is of the upmost importance, rather than just going under the radar.In post 234, Spangled wrote:I would disagree about ‘having no personal stake’ in the discussion; I very clearly had a stake in the discussion or I would not have asked RC to stop hounding EP in the way they were. If I were scum, I would have no reason to want that to stop; I would make no comment, indeed have no reason to want to appear to be contributing to the discussion in a positive manner — after all, there were (and are) a few people pretty much flat out ignoring this particular discussion (Alchemist being, I think, the best example).
TL;DR: me!scum want counterproductive, but me!town want no counterproductive. other scum ignore counterproductive; they not make comment
you said that we could start to move forward, but you've skipped over perhaps the most substantial posts that i've made this entire game and all of the surrounding discussion.In post 241, EspressoPatronum wrote:I liked Spangled's posts, but his town reads of me might be biasing my thought process. I'll take a look at his ISO when I can. This week is pretty busy for me, so no promises on my timeliness.
I'm not feeling as good about my Gamma coalition read anymore. As above, I'll look into it more when I can.
you're not exactly making a great case for your engagement with me being "pretty good", as you say.
who are you talking to?In post 242, NC 39 wrote:instead of complaining about the deadline why not try to solve?
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inactive scum lose day one in this setup, if past results are in any way indicative of the future.In post 232, Spangled wrote:I would like to offer an opinion, here — that maybe some of the fairly inactive people could be scum here, doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing; coasting, hoping I get lynched today and generally sheeping you, hiding behind the reasoning of how you’re ‘just that awesomely good’, and then maybe letting you lynch EP, and then shooting you N2 once you’ve served your purpose. Or maybe shooting you N1 if Coffeelad is, actually, scum, or if you change your mind or something, I don’t know.
This is not me saying you’re bad at the game, either RC or nsg — but scum can use people whose reads are pointed in the wrong direction.
i'm not sure i understand what exactly you're trying to impart upon me here? mind elaborating?
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you know that recognizing that this setup was really (in my opinion) not mean to be played with 7 day deadlines and scumhunting are not mutually exclusive things to do, right?In post 245, NC 39 wrote:
anyone that's moaning about the deadline.In post 243, RC most awesomest wrote:who are you talking to?- RC most awesomest
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so i think i have about 5 people to fill 4 spots in my coalition so basically i need to exclude one person
luv, espresso, gamma, alchemist, youaregreat
haven't really put in the effort to read nancy at all this game and it might be too late to do that (or thats just an excuse for me being lazy)
hopefully at most only one scum is in that group or i shall look Foolish
anyways i guess right now i lean towards excluding youaregreat. maybe i should reread alchemist
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haha.In post 575, Spangled wrote:If we believe that coalition is all town, anyone who’s not voting for this without a good reason is scum. Let’s go people!
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maybe you forgot that when i said "4 spots in my coalition", the fifth spot was me?
in fact, i don't think you actually read the post that you're replying to.
it's really interesting to me to see you go gung-ho about a coalition that doesn't include you, though. if i'm to continue my spiral of confirmation bias when it comes to your being scum, obviously it would point towards your partner being among one of those people. i think even from a standpoint of not previously scumreading you, an argument could be made that that interpretation makes sense – after all, you were just talking about paranoid you were of everyone. passing a coalition that doesn't include you doesn't seem to me like the actions of someone who only trusts themselves, but that's just me.
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sky thats not twoIn post 572, Skygazer wrote:RC most awesomest (2): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, Lil Uzi Vert, RC most awesomest
omg bad mod
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the funny thing (to me, and pretty much only if spangled is scum) is that given that spangled townreads gamma, he will need to come up with a last minute reason to scumread me if he does not want to sheep my coalition by removing youaregreat and adding me.
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