Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #12 (isolation #0) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:50 am

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In post 8, Hectic wrote:this looks like fun

HEAL: Hectic, NC 39, Spangled, Alchemist, Espresso

VOTE: RC most awesomest

i can provide a few walls later if people doubt these reads
can I, without giving a long winded explanation of why these kinds of posts even made ironically throw me off and make me dislike the game, ask everyone who wants to win as town to not do this
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Post Post #13 (isolation #1) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:51 am

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In post 10, Alchemist21 wrote:if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.
this is already a game i have no desire to play.
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Post Post #35 (isolation #2) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:59 pm

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In post 10, Alchemist21 wrote:I think the Coalition should be the 5 strongest/Towniest players not just for the obvious reasons of the D1 wincon but also as a weak investigational tool if it fails - if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.
my plan always has been and likely always will be to simply pass a coalition of the towniest players – reads above anything else. i fully intend to win day one and i don't believe that making any trade off for the contingency is worth giving up a higher probability of winning.

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Post Post #36 (isolation #3) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:00 pm

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In post 23, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?
yeah, i agree.

this setup isn't exactly that new, really. there's not a lot in terms of mechanics that hasn't probably already been discussed.

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Post Post #37 (isolation #4) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:01 pm

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In post 34, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 33, Hectic wrote:has town ever won by correctly selecting an all town coalition D1?
No. I think they've gotten close in the past.
wrong???

you were literally scum in the game that town won day one????

???

wiki link for the unaware – The Coalition

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Post Post #38 (isolation #5) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:04 pm

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HEAL: rc most awesomest

gonna chat with rc before doing anything else, but i'm townleaning luv. scummiest slot so far to me is probably espresso.
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Post Post #43 (isolation #6) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:34 pm

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exact overlap with nsg's reads at the time of her readslist, without commenting on whether I changed them after.
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Post Post #90 (isolation #7) » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:09 pm

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EP why do you as town think that going out of your way to tilt me to get maybe 2% win equity if I'm scum is worth sacrificing a massive amount of win equity if I'm town?
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Post Post #94 (isolation #8) » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:46 pm

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In post 65, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 62, Hectic wrote:why do you suspect RCMA, Gamma? i thought his reaction to my heal vote was a little over the top, but i've never played with him before so i'm not sure
NSG seems a little I'd say overzealous, in a not genuine way. Trying too hard is probably the best way to put it.
mind elaborating? i find it a bit hard to imagine that the posts i've made so far could come across that way, so i'm interested to hear how you got that vibe.
In post 70, Hectic wrote:were RCMA's first two posts from NSG or RC?
in general i try to sign my posts, so you should know when it's me.
In post 75, EspressoPatronum wrote:RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.

I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.
i don't think rc is the kind of person who needs an excuse when he's playing scum.

i said that i scumleaned you because i felt like your posts were somewhat contentless and reminded me of a classic scum tactic of just talking about mechanics in an attempt to make it look like you're solving the game. specifically, the "what's the optimal approach" and other statements like that. i've entered threads the exact same way before as scum, and i've seen others do it not infrequently.

keeping in mind that i've both moderated this setup and played in it – i would say that town has won before by actually just putting towny players in the coalition. sounds simple, but goes against the third point that you noticed of winning by putting readable people rather than towny people – the dark wanderer, skitter, the worst and irrelephant as a collective probably rank among the top scum players on the site, and yet they (along with myself) made up the winning coalition. i really don't think there are any "tricks" or something along that line. i think focusing
too much
on the mechanic takes is a distraction – figure out your reads, update your coalition accordingly, and try to come to a consensus. that's about the best advice i can give to win the game.

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Post Post #95 (isolation #9) » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:01 pm

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HEAL: spangled

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Post Post #96 (isolation #10) » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:05 pm

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nancy, clem, where are youuuuuuuu

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Post Post #98 (isolation #11) » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:28 pm

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fair point on people who haven't played this setup before

here's the one i was referring to

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Post Post #145 (isolation #12) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:11 am

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for my part i'm just going to treat EP like a nonparticipant in the game and hope that we win via coalition not including them regardless of their alignment.
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Post Post #146 (isolation #13) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:12 am

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In post 63, NC 39 wrote:I promise if it fails I won’t immediately point fingers at your slot because I know how you feel about people lynching you just based on your reputation as a strong scum player.
it's not about my feelings, it's about the fact that it's objectively wrong to do so

the only way that feelings come into play is how everyone ~feels~ about the prospect of losing to me

it's not some kind of personal fucking favor to me to treat me like an actual player in a game of mafia
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Post Post #147 (isolation #14) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:13 am

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HURT: spangled

removing from our heal list, will discuss it with nsg later.
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Post Post #149 (isolation #15) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:17 am

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this game is the summation of everything I dislike about mafia and it doesn't help that the most universally healed slot is my top scumread.
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Post Post #151 (isolation #16) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:24 am

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I was referring to Spangled, not EP.

I'm not going to talk to or about EP, you can ask NSG for her read.
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Post Post #153 (isolation #17) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:28 am

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He says things that scum would say in the manner that scum says them.
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Post Post #160 (isolation #18) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:19 am

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In post 159, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 153, RC most awesomest wrote:He says things that scum would say in the manner that scum says them.
Elaborate? Firstly that's rather vague and second I dont really agree with that read or logic rn.
why do you townread spangled? is it just

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Post Post #165 (isolation #19) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:10 am

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In post 161, NC 39 wrote:
In post 29, Skygazer wrote:With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.
Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-08 18:00:00)
SKY

why would you run this game with seven day deadlines???
In post 163, Gamma Emerald wrote:More that I think his sorting is towny
could you give specific examples of what sorting you're looking at, perhaps?
In post 164, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'm treating you exactly like I treated Formerfish in the Purge game.
I have a small understanding of your town game and have concluded you're not playing within that normal style.
perhaps you should try to expand that understanding of RC's "normal style"? radiantcowbells is the top poster on the entire website by a margin of over
eight thousand
posts.

i was about to begin a statement by saying that i understand where your read is coming from, but on reflection i'm not actually sure that i do. near as i can tell, you're scumreading RC because he's behaving differently than in games you've played with him where he was town. understandable – my question is, to what extent have you factored in the fact that he is playing in a hydra with me, and to what end do you believe any perceived differences in his play would further some scum agenda?

your application of meta seems misguided to me. you also don't seem to have much of an interest in sorting me. when you said "", was that actually backed up by any sort of knowledge regarding me and my habits? or was it a simple dismissal of a meta-based behavioral tell with the reasoning that "it's not hard to just do X or not do Y"?

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Post Post #168 (isolation #20) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:37 am

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EP transparently has no interest in engaging with our slot outside of calling us scum
whether that makes them scum is yet to be determined.

also... why are the deadlines 7 days...
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Post Post #171 (isolation #21) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:18 am

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I don't agree and I don't know what to cite besides I'm better than you.
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Post Post #172 (isolation #22) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:32 am

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Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.

It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.
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Post Post #189 (isolation #23) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:19 pm

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if you're ignoring me in forming a read on our slot then what you're doing is focusing on things you find outrageous or things you disagree with and not actually looking for scummy play, and you should take a moment to do some self-reflection on that.

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Post Post #193 (isolation #24) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:56 pm

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In post 190, Hectic wrote:so not only did i self-reflect at your suggestion, but i went and really deeply contemplated my actions for a good few days. this was a real eye opener to me and it made me realise something, something huge. something i've been lying to myself about for years. something i'd always known to be true deep inside of me but had constantly repressed to the point of unbearable pain. you know what that was? that's right, i think you already have the answer, and what you were looking for was right in front of you all along

i have now returned with a crystal clear mindset, and am ready to reexamine your ISO
-shrug-

i'm making a genuine effort to get anyone who's town to reconsider what i know to be a counterproductive line of discussion and to challenge anyone who's scum and attempting to leverage this situation to their benefit. i'm sorry if i came across as condescending at all, but i don't think there's any need to be snarky towards me.
i agree with and have liked everything you've said setup-wise, haven't seen many reads or other content from you, and the ones you have provided are null for me

you answered a question with a question in 160, i'd also like to hear an actual explanation for why you and RC scumread Spangled
yeah, i've definitely been not particularly forthcoming with reads. in most games anyways i prefer to sit back and gather more information before really doing or saying anything decisive, but this game especially given that i'm in a hydra i've been putting most of my in the moment thoughts into the hydra PT.

RC scumread spangled before i did, but i've come around to see where he's coming from. take a look at spangled's pop-in here:
Spoiler:
In post 133, Spangled wrote:
In post 123, Hectic wrote: what's a UTR? ultra townread?
A UTR is a universal townread.
In post 134, Spangled wrote:
In post 131, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Alchemist, you haven't updated your coalition in a while. Is it still reflective of your current stance?

If yes, can you tell me a bit more about your NC and RCMA reads?
In post 130, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'm liking Hectic's content and reads, but the difference in his playstyle is really nagging at me. It's almost like he's too good to be true now that he's playing normally, and I'm seeing that as a possible scum tactic.

@anyone else who has played with him, what are your thoughts on his behaviour? Do you think the change in his posting style is AI? Why/why not?
He has played every game differently, as far as I’m aware, from my occasional readings of newbie games, each with a different gimmick. It is true that he lacks a gimmick this time... but I don’t know if he’s been scum before or anything about that so...
In post 135, Spangled wrote:
In post 132, Alchemist21 wrote:If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.
Whoops, ignore that quote up the top.
In post 132, Alchemist21 wrote:If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.
Why would you take out NC and Gamma? Is it just the lack of a townread, or is there a more substantial reason?
In post 136, Spangled wrote:
In post 135, Spangled wrote:
In post 132, Alchemist21 wrote:If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.
Whoops, ignore that quote up the top.
In post 132, Alchemist21 wrote:If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.
Why would you take out NC and Gamma? Is it just the lack of a townread, or is there a more substantial reason?
Oh wow I did it again :facepalm:


i don't think there's any actual sorting or even attempt at game-solving in those posts (no offense to spangled). rather, it seems to me like going through posts and just finding things to respond to, perhaps one of the most consistently scum-indicative tells that i've ever encountered. if you believe that our slot has few reads, we should still look like a library compared to spangled's ISO.

here's another thing about me (in addition to the hanging back) that i mentioned in the last coalition setup i completed – i dislike it when people ask the generic question "what are your reads" without any seeming deeper purpose. and when you actually look through spangled's iso – i mean
actually really read it
– i noticed that there really wasn't much of any solving that i could see beyond that generic question, and i also noticed how often it came up.
Spoiler:
In post 53, Spangled wrote:Do you have any reads yet Gamma?
In post 104, Spangled wrote:@Alchemist
Got any reads yet?
In post 110, Spangled wrote:@Clemency
Any reads yet?
In post 174, Spangled wrote:@LUV
Any reads yet?


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Post Post #194 (isolation #25) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:58 pm

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i think it's a significant mistake for anyone to have spangled in their coalition right now and i feel like doing so is literally making the classic mistake that loses towns games: overlooking the silently scummy people coasting by in favor of focusing on the outrageous or distracting things.
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Post Post #195 (isolation #26) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:58 pm

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Post Post #196 (isolation #27) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:08 pm

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In post 194, RC most awesomest wrote:i think it's a significant mistake for anyone to have spangled in their coalition right now and i feel like doing so is literally making the classic mistake that loses towns games: overlooking the silently scummy people coasting by in favor of focusing on the outrageous or distracting things.
and this isn't meant as a criticism of anyone – it took RC mentioning a scumread on spangled for me to actually read his ISO in a critical manner and realize that i was being lazy to just write him off as town. i think spangled as he's played so far is an incredibly easy person to townread: he's fairly active, he's responding to discussions in a fairly reasonable manner and he's asking people questions. it's just that when you look closer, i think it becomes apparent that everything he's doing makes a lot of sense coming from the perspective of scum!spangled.

there have been no controversial stances from him, and indeed seemingly no strong stances whatsoever. most of his responses are reasonable, yes – but none of them offer any insight into his position as someone uninformed of everyone else's alignment. in fact, i'd say it's quite the opposite:
In post 173, Spangled wrote:
In post 172, RC most awesomest wrote:Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.

It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.
I don’t think he’s trying not to engage with you as hard as you think; if you give him time and ask him good, pointed questions, rather than deciding as the be-all and end-all on page 7 that he’s probably scum choosing to ignore larger meta in favour of his own experience of your meta — which people are going to naturally default to, especially if they haven’t actually properly meta’d you — we won’t get any kind of consensus on him for a long time, and it will probably be impossible to do so.
if you look at this quote, i think it's not a stretch at all to see it as someone who wants to contribute to a discussion in a positive manner but who has no personal stake in the meaning of the discussion (given that they already know the answer). someone who wants to be seen saying something, but who doesn't particularly care about what the other people are saying and what it means about
them
.

(basically this is a long version of saying that it kind of reminds me of TMI, although not in the scumslip sense)

i mean, where's the comment about what RC's reaction means for his alignment? where's the "i wonder if scum!RC would say this about EP"? where's the "EP has been playing towny this entire game, he's not trying to discredit you"? there's no comment about anyone's alignment at all, just a comment that RC's being unproductive and that "we won't get any kind of consensus".


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Post Post #200 (isolation #28) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:22 pm

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In post 199, Gamma Emerald wrote:That was poorly stated. Do you have it on record that scum do it more? Could you provide examples if that's the case?
no, i don't have hard data indicating that scum do it at a rate more often than town. (the only scumtell i have hard data for relates to wagon formations.)

consider it as a part of the larger scumtell of "pretending to contribute" or "lackluster scumhunting".


do you often ask for hard data proving that scumtells are valid, or do you simply disagree with my application of it? (also, i hope you realize that me simply linking games in which scum said "what are your reads" wouldn't really prove anything)

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Post Post #202 (isolation #29) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:23 pm

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sky give extension

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Post Post #208 (isolation #30) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:37 pm

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In post 123, RadiantCowbells wrote:Oversoul was throwing in questions in a way that was pretty safe and common for scum to do, perpetual gather info mode without taking a meaningful stance. Not lockscum but definitely +scum.
In post 125, Commie Catgirl Coalition wrote:oversoul's questions make perfect sense from a town perspective and i'm struggling to see why you think theyre specifically "safe" questions scum would ask.
In post 1220, northsidegal wrote:
Oversoul was lynched. He was a...


Spoiler: Role PM
PUBLIC COP 9P
Image
You are a
Mafia Goon
, along with your partner,
TODO
.
At any time you may confer with them here.
As a member of the Mafia, you have access to a factional nightkill - at night one of you may kill another player.

You win when the mafia constitutes a majority or nothing can prevent that.


The game thread is here. After reading this, please confirm by responding with your role or by posting in your private thread.
Image
///////


Night 1 begins now and ends in (expired on 2019-08-11 09:21:59). Should all living players agree, I will accelerate the night.
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Post Post #209 (isolation #31) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:39 pm

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like i know the kind of reads i have that are usually correct but end up getting shit on by towns because they don't have the skillset to see what i see and this is squarely in that alley
you'll forgive me if your very shallow townread on him doesn't exactly faze me or make me want to change my mind
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Post Post #210 (isolation #32) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:42 pm

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In post 205, Gamma Emerald wrote:As for the actual point it goes into, I disagree that Spangled is pretending to contribute, for why see my wall post I made earlier. I don't think what he's posted is pretend contribution.
if that's all you're going to say you don't leave me a lot of room except to say that i think your intuition in for what's genuine, what you think scum would do, and what actions show town motivation are all wildly off. i would wonder who you scumread this game if you still find spangled's posts to show a town desire to solve upon a close reading. (i would imagine it would be people with less content, but that's just my own speculation)

regardless, if you want to fast track a coalition, i don't think keeping spangled in it is much of a step in the right direction. you don't have to agree with us on the read, but for now i think it's fair to say that from an objective standpoint keeping him in your coalition will only serve to delay a majority consensus.

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Post Post #211 (isolation #33) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:43 pm

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HEAL: Alchemist

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Post Post #212 (isolation #34) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:43 pm

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VOTE: Spangled

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Post Post #214 (isolation #35) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:52 pm

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@skygazer would you extend the deadline if unanimously agreed upon?


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Post Post #215 (isolation #36) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:58 pm

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this game is 100% a loss if we don't win d1. there is no chance that town doesn't end up turning on us if the coalition fails. we can't afford to have to use precious hours arguing
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Post Post #226 (isolation #37) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:13 pm

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hi alch you scum?
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Post Post #243 (isolation #38) » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:28 am

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In post 234, Spangled wrote:I would disagree about ‘having no personal stake’ in the discussion; I very clearly had a stake in the discussion or I would not have asked RC to stop hounding EP in the way they were. If I were scum, I would have no reason to want that to stop; I would make no comment, indeed have no reason to want to appear to be contributing to the discussion in a positive manner — after all, there were (and are) a few people pretty much flat out ignoring this particular discussion (Alchemist being, I think, the best example).

TL;DR: me!scum want counterproductive, but me!town want no counterproductive. other scum ignore counterproductive; they not make comment
i disagree – i think that whatever benefit to town could potentially arise out of your attempt to prevent something seen as counterproductive, the gains you would make as scum in appearing to be playing pro-town would outweigh them. perhaps especially so in a setup like this where being townread is of the upmost importance, rather than just going under the radar.
In post 241, EspressoPatronum wrote:I liked Spangled's posts, but his town reads of me might be biasing my thought process. I'll take a look at his ISO when I can. This week is pretty busy for me, so no promises on my timeliness.

I'm not feeling as good about my Gamma coalition read anymore. As above, I'll look into it more when I can.
you said that we could start to move forward, but you've skipped over perhaps the most substantial posts that i've made this entire game and all of the surrounding discussion.

you're not exactly making a great case for your engagement with me being "pretty good", as you say.

In post 242, NC 39 wrote:instead of complaining about the deadline why not try to solve?
who are you talking to?


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Post Post #246 (isolation #39) » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:34 am

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In post 232, Spangled wrote:I would like to offer an opinion, here — that maybe some of the fairly inactive people could be scum here, doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing; coasting, hoping I get lynched today and generally sheeping you, hiding behind the reasoning of how you’re ‘just that awesomely good’, and then maybe letting you lynch EP, and then shooting you N2 once you’ve served your purpose. Or maybe shooting you N1 if Coffeelad is, actually, scum, or if you change your mind or something, I don’t know.
This is not me saying you’re bad at the game, either RC or nsg — but scum can use people whose reads are pointed in the wrong direction.
inactive scum lose day one in this setup, if past results are in any way indicative of the future.

i'm not sure i understand what exactly you're trying to impart upon me here? mind elaborating?

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Post Post #247 (isolation #40) » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:37 am

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In post 245, NC 39 wrote:
In post 243, RC most awesomest wrote:who are you talking to?
anyone that's moaning about the deadline.
you know that recognizing that this setup was really (in my opinion) not mean to be played with 7 day deadlines and scumhunting are not mutually exclusive things to do, right?
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Post Post #248 (isolation #41) » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:37 am

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Post Post #249 (isolation #42) » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:40 am

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happy scumday alchemist

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Post Post #269 (isolation #43) » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:10 am

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By misgivings about me what you mean is ignoring all the data points in favor of me being town, correct?
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Post Post #272 (isolation #44) » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:55 am

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I chose not to post my 1500 word rant.
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Post Post #377 (isolation #45) » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:47 am

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i think youaregreat is going to be the reason scum wins regardless of what their actual alignment is
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Post Post #548 (isolation #46) » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:19 pm

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HEAL: luv

i think is a townpost

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Post Post #549 (isolation #47) » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:20 pm

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no reason for spangled to be in anyones coalition

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Post Post #550 (isolation #48) » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:21 pm

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i do honestly think espresso is town

i think rc would be mad at me for doing this but i'm not sure how much he's still interested in playing this game

HEAL: espresso

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Post Post #551 (isolation #49) » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:23 pm

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not sure who to add last

maybe gamma

if you can't tell i'm officially lazyposting. sorry about that. wish rc were still here.

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Post Post #552 (isolation #50) » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:26 pm

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@youaregreat

we have a pretty good amount of overlap in our coalitions. why should i townread you

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Post Post #553 (isolation #51) » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:28 pm

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so i think i have about 5 people to fill 4 spots in my coalition so basically i need to exclude one person

luv, espresso, gamma, alchemist, youaregreat

haven't really put in the effort to read nancy at all this game and it might be too late to do that (or thats just an excuse for me being lazy)

hopefully at most only one scum is in that group or i shall look Foolish

anyways i guess right now i lean towards excluding youaregreat. maybe i should reread alchemist

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Post Post #576 (isolation #52) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:06 am

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In post 575, Spangled wrote:If we believe that coalition is all town, anyone who’s not voting for this without a good reason is scum. Let’s go people!
haha.

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Post Post #577 (isolation #53) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:08 am

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maybe you forgot that when i said "4 spots in my coalition", the fifth spot was me?

in fact, i don't think you actually read .

it's really interesting to me to see you go gung-ho about a coalition that doesn't include you, though. if i'm to continue my spiral of confirmation bias when it comes to your being scum, obviously it would point towards your partner being among one of those people. i think even from a standpoint of not previously scumreading you, an argument could be made that that interpretation makes sense – after all, you were just talking about . passing a coalition that doesn't include you doesn't seem to me like the actions of someone who only trusts themselves, but that's just me.

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Post Post #578 (isolation #54) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:12 am

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In post 572, Skygazer wrote:RC most awesomest (2): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, Lil Uzi Vert, RC most awesomest
sky thats not two

omg bad mod

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Post Post #580 (isolation #55) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:14 am

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HEAL: gamma

thinking that i will go with my gut and exclude great
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Post Post #582 (isolation #56) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:16 am

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the funny thing (to me, and pretty much only if spangled is scum) is that given that spangled townreads gamma, he will need to come up with a last minute reason to scumread me if he does not want to sheep my coalition by removing youaregreat and adding me.

(again, i look foolish if i'm wrong, but i guess i'm used to that by now)
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Post Post #583 (isolation #57) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:17 am

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anyone have any last minute strong meta based townreads that i should be made aware of

speak now or forever etc

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Post Post #584 (isolation #58) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:19 am

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alchemist what do you think about gamma over nc39

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Post Post #585 (isolation #59) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:21 am

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just gonna say now that this is not really my proudest game so sorry if i let anyone down or am currently in the process of gamethrowing

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Post Post #586 (isolation #60) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:22 am

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so just for clarity:

{rcma, alchemist, luv, gamma, espresso}

is my coalition

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Post Post #588 (isolation #61) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:27 am

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RC was scumreading nancy earlier in the game and didn't want to bring it up. now that he's mia and the day is nearly over it's probably not really important to keep that top secret anymore.

both of us i would say have really good handles on reading nancy. i haven't really put in any effort to read nancy this game, i put a not insignificant amount of weight into rc's read there and i would rather err on what i believe to be the side of caution.

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Post Post #589 (isolation #62) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:30 am

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something to consider is that nc39's coalition is more different to yours than mine is—and is unlikely, in my opinion, to change very quickly. if you were to heal nc39, you would not necessarily be able to rely on nc39 reciprocating by also sharing your coalition.

gamma, on the other hand, still has an open coalition. (
@gamma
)

basically, even if you consider the two options relatively equal in terms of reads, the quicker path to a compromise is by healing gamma.

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Post Post #593 (isolation #63) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:38 am

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oh, i might have been looking at hectic's coalition accidentally

shrug

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Post Post #594 (isolation #64) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:39 am

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alchemist, if you were scum in this setup do you think you would townread your partner or scumread them

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Post Post #601 (isolation #65) » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:20 pm

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HURT: alchemist
HEAL: nc39
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Post Post #624 (isolation #66) » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:15 am

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In post 611, NC 39 wrote:@nsg, are you ever planning to answer my Hecking question?

How is it that you have a read on everyone else but him?
shrug

i guess he's just the most null to me.
In post 621, Spangled wrote:Or even if you don’t want to talk to me about that you could at least try and engage with me rather than levelling of a few sarcastic posts my way and otherwise ignoring me. I do not get why you’re doing this, especially as you’ve admitted you’ve been ‘confbiasing’ toward scum!me.
i'm not trying to be sarcastic towards you, sorry if that's how i'm coming across.

ideally we win today and the whole point is moot. if that doesn't happen i'll try to be a bit more wordy.
In post 622, NC 39 wrote:I’m very frustrated with nsg. She makes reads without ever explaining them, which would be really helpful.

Why did she swap me and Alchemist? I have absolutely no clue. This is probably setup realated since she was a lot more forthcoming in other games she’s been in.
that was RC, not me. (i'm still signing my posts)

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Post Post #625 (isolation #67) » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:28 am

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In post 597, YOUAREGREAT wrote:
In post 552, RC most awesomest wrote:@youaregreat

we have a pretty good amount of overlap in our coalitions. why should i townread you

-nsg
a better question would be: do you have any reason to think that i'm not town?
well—yes, actually. but, ignoring that for a second, from an epistemic point of view there's no reason by default to townread any one person. yes, the majority of the playerlist is town making it more probable than not that any person picked at random is town, but in mafia and particularly in the setup we're playing, i'm of the opinion that it makes far more sense to start by default with everyone at "null".

so, if the first and only thing you have to say in response to why i should townread you is "why wouldn't you townread me", that doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence in me. (i don't think it's actually a better question)

i mean, a coalition is ideally a strong townblock – would you want someone who you don't townread but just don't have any reasons to scumread?


as for the reasons to why i actually scumread you, i think the way that you entered with massive quotewalls of responses but then slowly transitioned to just saying "after doing some re-reading" to justify a relatively unexplaind , as well as the way that your posting in general has slowed down is probably scum indicative. i understand that you seem to be busy in real life and in no way am i holding that against you – rather, it seems to me that even with the time that you have to post in thread, the rate of your "scumhunting" has gone down, and it reminds me of scum losing motivation to continue faking a lot of thought.

to go a bit further in-depth and be a bit more specific when it comes to posts, i think that this question towards NC39 is probably disingenuous:
In post 340, YOUAREGREAT wrote:that's cause i just joined this game.

but that means i should be on your null-list.

why am i on your scum-list?
that's given your apparent opinion on clemency before you joined the game.
In post 311, YOUAREGREAT wrote:for the record, i replaced into this slot because i iso'd clemency's lines and thought he was extremely blatantly town

looking forward to living up to his reputation
after all, someone who just joined the game still had a predecessor, who nc39 might have had a read on previously.
you yourself
even indicated that you had a read on who you replaced, and yet not only do you seem to ignore the possibility that NC39 could have scumread you because of clemency, but you don't really seem to commit to the argument that clemency played towny. after just saying that you thought clemency was extremely blatant town, you then argued that you should be nullread because you had just joined. don't the two seem mutually exclusive to you?


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Post Post #626 (isolation #68) » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:38 am

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anyways, if i'm not mistaken that's three people who share the coalition at the moment.

given LUV's previous reads he might be reticent to heal it. i think gamma will probably be willing to. that means we need one more person.

@spangled
one of the reasons i'm so reluctant to townread you is because of really suspicious reactions like the one you had to youaregreat not being included. if you really are town, are you going to delay (and possibly entirely derail) the coalition just because you feel a bit better on great than on NC39?

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Post Post #694 (isolation #69) » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:08 am

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ouch
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Post Post #696 (isolation #70) » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:09 am

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Post Post #707 (isolation #71) » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:31 am

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that coalition contained two slots i hard vetoed being in the coalition, btw.
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Post Post #708 (isolation #72) » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:33 am

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if you're not voting EP or NC39 you're gamethrowing.
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Post Post #715 (isolation #73) » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:48 am

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VOTE: NC39

bye
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Post Post #730 (isolation #74) » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:35 pm

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maybe I should be voting EP
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Post Post #779 (isolation #75) » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:06 am

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VOTE: Alchemist21

sheep me if you want any reasonable probability of winning

his partner is someone with whom he distanced heavily
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Post Post #783 (isolation #76) » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:20 am

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you're actually garbage EP if you're town but if you're scum making the correct play to derail any chance of getting a wagon through today good job.
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Post Post #784 (isolation #77) » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:21 am

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like the concept of "I'm trying to lynch my top scumread" doesn't really need the explanation that you seem to think that it does

particularly when my reads are actually worth something unlike those of the other players in this game
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Post Post #785 (isolation #78) » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:26 am

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I stopped playing this game because you guys talk about the game and play the game like everyone thinks you're hot fucking shit when in reality you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about
I don't think the concepts of

not trying to policy lynch a slot that I'm in
not ignoring the reads of the strongest town player in this game (debatable wrt NSG but she's in my slot so)
not going out of your way to shit up the game for me in a way that's going to screw over both my investment and my capacity to generate good reads

really if any of you are town what exactly is it that you think is going to happen?

it has taken absolutely ridiculous levels of awful for town to lose games that i've been in this year and you guys managed to throw the coalition and no lynch

sorry, when you guys failed the coalition and can't get a lynch through before the deadline the play isn't to hyperscrutinize my actions

you can't get a fucking lynch through, you don't stand a snowballs chance in hell if i'm scum

so
FUCK OFF
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Post Post #786 (isolation #79) » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:29 am

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you can accept that I'm your best chance of winning if I'm town and still despite all the damage done win a significant portion of the time if I am, or you can have an 100% chance of losing regardless of my alignment

but don't expect me to coddle and handhold you.
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Post Post #787 (isolation #80) » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:32 am

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like actually the audacity of going out of your way to play into every single one of my pet peeves, pet peeves which are widely known, and then get mad at me for not wanting to play the game
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Post Post #806 (isolation #81) » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:58 pm

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I'll probably get scumread for saying this but I think it's pretty unfair to scum to have the deadline extended here.
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Post Post #820 (isolation #82) » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:43 pm

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if EP keeps trying to derail Alch we lynch them instead
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Post Post #887 (isolation #83) » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:16 am

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Wow so entitled, wanting to be treated like a human being and shit
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Post Post #888 (isolation #84) » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:32 am

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Also I have a phenomenal record not just in general but specifically reading Alchemist21, and Alchemist knows this yet hasn't, in the slightest, reacted to my scumread on him that makes town coming from town who should expect town me to read him correctly.
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Post Post #891 (isolation #85) » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:23 am

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So you just... don't plan to do anything about that?

I feel like you would be a lot more proactive in terms of forcing my hand: even now your engaging me as if I'm definitely acting in good faith by arguing that you did in fact try to sort me as opposed to prying for said info. Given my record reading you, you should be worried I'm scum setting you up as a mislynch.
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Post Post #892 (isolation #86) » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:25 am

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Like, you're doing the things you should do to prevent me from lynching you if you're scum but not the things town you should do to deal with the situation if I'm in fact scum
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Post Post #893 (isolation #87) » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:27 am

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Also arguing that you can't be scum because you have no viable scumpartners sounds like something scum says because they think they've done a hella woke job of distancing
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Post Post #895 (isolation #88) » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:35 am

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You're still talking about this like scum!

I've never heard you argue for a meta townread on me, ever.

And you were exceptionally vague regardless.
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Post Post #897 (isolation #89) » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:47 am

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Me being obvtown only works if you don't ignore that I'm obvtown and call m scum regardless
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Post Post #899 (isolation #90) » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:52 am

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I wasn't referring to your approach to my slot.
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Post Post #900 (isolation #91) » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:56 am

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Other people pretending that my scum proficiency isn't the reason they won't townread nsg and I
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Post Post #931 (isolation #92) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:36 am

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Nc39 how is it possible that town you ever forces a no lynch as opposed to following me onto alch?
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Post Post #932 (isolation #93) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:37 am

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Cuz that's what you're doing right now transparently

There's 1 Lynch that has any potential of going through and that's alchemist and yet you're not supporting it and trying to make EP the reason for that.

Jesus Christ that coalition was terrible
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Post Post #933 (isolation #94) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:43 am

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U guys are fucking horrible town players, no offense

Not just your reads but your approach to the game

Managing to get two consecutive no lynches despite a deadline extension is really really appalling.
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Post Post #934 (isolation #95) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:43 am

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Like you can't all be scum since I know alch is 1 scum
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Post Post #935 (isolation #96) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:49 am

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Like you're saying it's apathy: no. Players aren't apathetic. Just that the shit tier players in this game are stubbornly holding onto bad approaches to the game. It's not a question of lynching in the coalition vs not, it's a question of lynching the objective scummiest player in the game with the Hydra with the most valuable reads certain that they are scum versus no lynching to stick it to RC. Is throwing the game to stick it to me worth it to you?
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Post Post #936 (isolation #97) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:52 am

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Seriously just lynch us after if alch flips town win win situation for everyone
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Post Post #938 (isolation #98) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:55 am

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It's going to be a NL if you don't switch right now

Decision is yours.
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Post Post #940 (isolation #99) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:58 am

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That's not the question right now

The question is lynch Alchemist versus no lynch

And I think my read quality makes my scumread the optimal lunch.

We proved that you guys as a collective don't have great reads when your coalition failed, shouldn't we rely on someone else now?
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Post Post #942 (isolation #100) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:59 am

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We won't get that fifth if you wait until last minute to switch.

We will get that fifth if you vote now.
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Post Post #950 (isolation #101) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:18 am

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UNVOTE:

Not voting anymore, enjoy the well deserved loss whichever of you are town.
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Post Post #951 (isolation #102) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:21 am

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I think it's exactly Gamma/alchemist but with the terrible play from EP and NC39 there's really no way of knowing and either of them could be the actual buddy. So, no point in making an uncertain Lynch on the coalition as opposed to lynching literally outed scum outside of it.

I'm really disgusted by all of you.
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Post Post #952 (isolation #103) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:22 am

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NC I'm really hoping you're scum having a good game as opposed to town doing your utmost to ruin towns chances of winning, regardless of what you think your actual motivation is.
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Post Post #954 (isolation #104) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:25 am

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The question is already answered in my post, because I have an 100% reliable record reading Alchemist21 and I don't have one reading you and several other coalition members are conceivably the buddy.
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Post Post #955 (isolation #105) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:26 am

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And I think that you ignoring the fact that I already answered your question to call me irrational says more than anything I could say.

But EP and NC are being equally awful in terms of discrediting me for my Alchemist scumread so it could be them too!
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Post Post #957 (isolation #106) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:27 am

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In post 946, NC 39 wrote:
In post 936, RC most awesomest wrote:Seriously just lynch us after if alch flips town win win situation for everyone
If Alch flips town, people will assume you’re wrong and not scum, so I don’t see that happening.

Bruh Gamma I don't owe anyone flies after everyone spent this whole game being awful to me and continue to do so.
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Post Post #959 (isolation #107) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:27 am

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I don't need to win this game to prove the point that I want to make.

I'm just waiting for it to be over.
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Post Post #961 (isolation #108) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:31 am

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Everyone bashes the relatively low activity players who mostly follow the consensus of the townreads when in reality that style of player often wins a ton and is rarely responsible for the loss. Town would have already won this it certain people knew when to shut up
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Post Post #965 (isolation #109) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:33 am

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I haven't so much as had even a below average performance this year and I'm fairly sure you're aware of that!
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Post Post #968 (isolation #110) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:36 am

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ND are you hedging on me being scum or are you not familiar with the fact that I have an 100% record reading Alchemist21
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Post Post #971 (isolation #111) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:38 am

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In post 968, RC most awesomest wrote:ND are you hedging on me being scum or are you not familiar with the fact that I have an 100% record reading Alchemist21
Is the question is RC scum faking a read or is the question you don't trust my alchemist read but townread me
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Post Post #974 (isolation #112) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:42 am

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I have not to date.
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Post Post #975 (isolation #113) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:42 am

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Even Alchemist himself would verify that.

And given that he should be a little concerned with me scumreading him.

But he's not, he's just kinda rushing to get a lynch that's not him through
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Post Post #976 (isolation #114) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:44 am

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Starting to townread NC which mostly makes me feel worse.
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Post Post #979 (isolation #115) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:50 am

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I consider lynching outside the coalition to be +town equity for reasons.
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Post Post #980 (isolation #116) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:51 am

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In post 723, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 721, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 713, Hectic wrote:
In post 703, Alchemist21 wrote:Ffs Hectic who could I be scum with at this point?
anyone on the coalition that didn't want you on?
There’s absolutely nobody on the Coalition I could be scum with. I would not be agonizing over the decision to compromise on my own inclusion if I had my buddy in it that already guaranteed its failure. My only logical partner there would be Gamma, and that’s who I’m trying to lynch!
Aka I can't be scum because I'm bussing
Image
Also, there's this.
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Post Post #981 (isolation #117) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:53 am

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I think that the odds of Gamma/Alch overwhelm the odds of any other scumteam.
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Post Post #985 (isolation #118) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:55 am

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Answer: because he's trying to make my scumread on him go as under the radar as is humanly possible.

Let's just say reasons reasons.
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Post Post #989 (isolation #119) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:57 am

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VOTE: Alch
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Post Post #990 (isolation #120) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:00 am

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In post 986, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In post 981, RC most awesomest wrote:I think that the odds of Gamma/Alch overwhelm the odds of any other scumteam.
I am willing to move onto Gamma to test this.
You're the other likely Alch partner though, so...
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Post Post #992 (isolation #121) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:02 am

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That does.
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Post Post #994 (isolation #122) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:07 am

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:|
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Post Post #999 (isolation #123) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:47 am

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I feel like there'd be more urgency here I'd you were town

You don't particularly seem to care.
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Post Post #1002 (isolation #124) » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:02 am

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Why don't you vote Gamma alch?
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