[CHALLENGE] September Challenge

[popsofctown]

All vigs are either northsidegal, or northsidegals wearing fetters of doubt in their own majestic beauty and power. EVs not calculated accordingly are erroneous.

[popsofctown]

@NK15: Are the Ninjas in Row 4 Column 1 intended to function as named townies who share a name with eachother but don't have meaningful power?

If so I would suggest, for identical functionality and slightly more elegance, that they be Informed Townies, information: "You know that there is only two mafia." or "You know that there is one other Informed Townie".

[popsofctown]

S_S are you -also- doing named townies?
Gunsmith gets "no result" on ascetic townie and knows to clear the slot, which is a sane innocent result the same way it would be if he investigated a VT.
Vanilla Cop gets "no result" when investigating the Ascetic townie. That lets him immediately clear the slot rather than wait for the first flip as with the VTs, I guess, but that's so very marginally different from getting a "Vanilla" result, since in the only subsetup where a town vanilla cop can hit the ascetic townie, the slot will -eventually- be clear.

It doesn't break the setup or anything, I guess. It's just kinda weird.


pedit: ah. I scanned for ninjas in the 3 scum setups but didn't see the ninjas sprinkled in there.
That's true. I can't think of a vacuous informed modifier to use, then.

[popsofctown]

Gunsmith doesn't get an immediate clear on VT's, btw-- mafia doctors also return no gun. Absent a scumflip or a massclaim, neither investigative can 100% clear any VT's.

Yeah I don't play enough Normal games to learn these things.

[popsofctown]

Wiki page is totally silent on whether lovers is normal (and whether neighborlovers or masonlovers would be more normal since it's not mentioned at all)

[popsofctown]

Three Can Keep a Secret If

1

Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler

2

Mafia Goon

1

Town Traffic Analyst

1

Backup Town Traffic Analyst

8

Vanilla Townie

[popsofctown]

The 7-2 version of the setup would be the same mechanics with different names, 1 Mafia Gunsmith Enabler, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Gunsmith, 1 Backup Gunsmith, 5 VT.

But I think the setup concept is funner for scum if they can "sacrifice" the Enabler for either of two possible deepwolf wincons (or also sweeping 5 man lylo), rather than being restricted to one, less flexible.

Certainly not to say it's not a setup concept worth challenging in and of itself on whether it'd be fun or not.

[popsofctown]

S_S, the rules explicitly stat that Vanilla slots can have a modifier. The Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler we previously a Mafia Goon, so it is ok for me to give him 1 modifier (despite Traffic Analyst Enabler being 3 words it's 1 modifier, 1 ability).

I didn't notice the thing about Backup Traffic Analyst, there's kind of like two ways of thinking about Backups, "It's a Traffic Analyst, but modified to have this restriction: you may not use your power yet unless <> dies", versus "Here is your role: the one thing you do is hope <> dies and absorb all his powers". I tend to think about it the latter way. The former way is probably better. It resolves Gunsmith on not-yet-active Backup Vig more intuitively.

Universal Backup just kind of forces you to think about it the latter way (and like, it has to be described the latter way). So I'll do that change.

[popsofctown]

Three Can Keep a Secret If

1

Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler

2

Mafia Goon

1

Town Traffic Analyst

1

Town Universal Backup

8

Vanilla Townie

Modnote: Normal Queue Universal Backup only triggers on own alignment, so Town Universal Backup cannot inherit Traffic Analyst Enabler.

[popsofctown]

A Traffic Analyst Enabler is a "modified Traffic Analyst"?

But a Traffic Analyst Enabler can't analyze traffic.

How does that add "simplicity"?


It seems equally logical to saying that Informed with information "This setup has a vigilante", is actually a Vigilante with a modifier.

[popsofctown]

I think your setup is too townsided. If we loosely call a vig shot a lynch, vig can shoot night 1 and holster the rest of the game to compensate for the evens/odds issue, and mafia's win condition is mislynch 4 times. The informed mechanic is just about guaranteed to remove the vig before it can generate strong advantages on being a clear, but I think needing to mislynch an entire additional player is a bigger deal then the missing few clears you'd generally expect in a setup of this size. Additionally you need to remember you're making removing the vig cost something for the scum, they're losing NK/mislynch push freedom.

It is pretty slightly townsided and I'm pretty sure I have really scumsided setup preferences so everyone else might say it's about where they want it. Also I'm not that smrt.

[popsofctown]

callforjudgment can you comment on whether my setup is legal or possible to make legal?

[popsofctown]

Power roles outnumber vanilla 7:5, so it's invalid.

[popsofctown]

Scum neighborizer is ok, if a slot that investigates is scum is what you're really pining for

[popsofctown]

Oh hey the month ended

[popsofctown]

TemporalLich
popsofctown
OkaPoka
Jingle
SS
student
NK15
mith

[popsofctown]

There's seven, I added NK15. If you count subsetups separately this technically has the most submissions.

[popsofctown]

I know that a watcher setup would fit these guidelines and that is what you truly wanted from me Jingle
But I can never give that to you

[popsofctown]

Vigilante is probably my favorite allowed investigative role.

I fixed it for you.

[popsofctown]

Traffic Analyst Enabler enables traffic analysis as long as he is alive, not once he dies. You evaluated the balance in reverse. Town can actually get as many as 2 purely mechanical lynches before finding any scum with dayplay, as opposed to needing to lynch a specific scum with dayplay to unlock their cop.

[popsofctown]

If I wanted killing power in the newbie queue I think I would do 2 townies that have an inverse bodyguard ability, where each night they target a player, and if they get nightkilled, the nightkill skips them and travels onward into their target instead.

Is there a name for this role?

Also am I on acid?

[popsofctown]

What happens if they target each other? Magical bouncing bullets?

Good point.
Not sure whether it moves towards balance to say "ignore this effect if this would redirect endlessly" or "You are Informed: x is the other Passthrough and is not a valid target for your ability"
I really feel like it's a role that should be like a normal queue role though, not because I'm some genius but because there's lots of consensus Town Bodyguard is one of the cooler untoxic PRs in mafia, so anything that is essentially a rebranding of that is probably also good.

It might be more feelsbad for scum if town was not using their agency to specifically protect their nightkill target, perhaps, but can't ever be more feelsbad than BP town.

EDIT: On second thought, making the passthrough bullet Strong and Unredirectable might be the best angle to go in the sense of making it a role that you put into closed setups. Like if I tossed it into a Large Theme that would give the least away about the rest of the setup.
Strong is unnecessary but has this nice aesthetic once it's unredirectable anyway and minorly maybe fixes resolution questions somehow.

[popsofctown]

Condorcet Method Results
There has been a tie. The winners are: Temporal Lich and popsofctown.
A tie occurs when there is no candidate that emerges unbeaten in all pairwise elections. Normally, it is possible to find the candidate who had the least votes against them in any pairwise election. However, in this case, Temporal Lich and popsofctown had equal numbers of voters voting against them in their poorest showings (n/a votes). As a result, a second election may be necessary to determine a winner.

Copeland Method Results
Copeland's method returns the same result as Condorcet's.

Smith Method Results
The Smith Set consists of: Temporal Lich and popsofctown.

[popsofctown]

Oh noes

I didn't really check to see whether the 3rd or 4th place person was in firing rage before I closed the webpage.

Possibly since Concordet is preference based that only has the possibility to generate a tie, though?

You should do a full list because it is fun.

[popsofctown]

I doubt anyone besides me wins that since the ones you ranked above TL and Pops were pretty unpopular in general.

[popsofctown]

I neber won b4

[popsofctown]

Something like 1 PR per setup, only protective roles allowed, must use standard lynch and day night cycle, does that sound spicy?

[popsofctown]

I'll make a challenge later today