[CHALLENGE] September Challenge

[Something_Smart]

July. Blame BNL.


(also ego)

[Something_Smart]

Carbon Copy

Randomly choose one of the following subsetups, all equally likely:

• 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Town Gunsmith, 1 Ascetic Townie, 5 Vanilla Townies
  
• 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Town Gunsmith, 1 Town Vanilla Cop, 5 Vanilla Townies
  
• 2 Mafia Doctors, 1 Town Gunsmith, 1 Town Vanilla Cop, 5 Vanilla Townies
  
• 2 Mafia Doctors, 1 Town Vanilla Cop, 1 Ascetic Townie, 5 Vanilla Townies

[Something_Smart]

There are town ninjas in 3-scum setups too, though. Presumably they're meant to serve as potential millers for the town rolecop.

[Something_Smart]

S_S are you -also- doing named townies?

Pretty much, yes.

The original version of the setup had VT's instead of ascetic townies, but I realized that it was way too easy for guiltied scum in setups 1 and 4 to get away with claiming the missing investigatives and that made these setups significantly more scumsided than the other two.

I did ascetic because it was a named townie with the neat perk of being 100% confirmable on being checked. I'm not totally happy with it, but I definitely think it's better.

[Something_Smart]

Gunsmith doesn't get an immediate clear on VT's, btw-- mafia doctors also return no gun. Absent a scumflip or a massclaim, neither investigative can 100% clear any VT's.

[Something_Smart]

That can be trivially fixed by changing it to a Universal Backup, but the Enabler's more of an issue. I remember cfj saying somewhere that enabler is a separate role and not a modifier but the Normal guidelines beg to differ there, so I wonder how he would rule it.

[Something_Smart]

S_S, the rules explicitly stat that Vanilla slots can have a modifier. The Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler we previously a Mafia Goon, so it is ok for me to give him 1 modifier (despite Traffic Analyst Enabler being 3 words it's 1 modifier, 1 ability).

Yeah, and I mean that's the thing. While a traffic analyst enabler is not really a traffic analyst that's modified, the Normal rules define it as that for simplicity. Just like you can't have a Weak Townie or a Backup Townie, you can't have a Vanilla Enabler-- it has to be attached to a different role, meaning it has to either have a new specification as a role (enabler is a role that requires another role to be listed as the thing it's enabling) or be written as a modifier, and the latter is simpler.

[Something_Smart]

They do.

Those gunsmiths are very useful once the mafia doctor flips.

[Something_Smart]

Hey everyone forgetting about me

Here's the full list of setups:

Spoiler: Jingle

Prospective Newbie 3

1. Mafia RB, Goon, JK, Tracker, 5 VT
2. Mafia RB, Goon, GSmith, Doctor, 5 VT
3. Mafia Rolecop, Goon, Tracker, Doctor, 5 VT
4. Mafia Rolecop, Goon, Doctor, JK, 5 VT
5. Mafia Doctor, Goon, JK, 6 VT
6. Mafia Doctor, Goon, GSmith, Vig, 5 VT

Spoiler: mith

So, I don't love the balance here really, but this is the idea I was toying with that prompted the question:

2 of 2 of 4

Setup is one of the following, with equal probability:

• Mafia Godfather, Mafia Role Cop, Town Cop, Town Vanilla Cop, 5x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Role Cop, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Vanilla Cop, 5x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Godfather, Mafia Encryptor, Town Cop, Town Miller Neighborizer, 5x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Role Cop, Mafia Encryptor, Town Cop, Town Miller Neighborizer, 5x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Godfather, Mafia Encryptor, Town Cop, 6x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Role Cop, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, 6x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Role Cop, Mafia Encryptor, Town Vanilla Cop, Town Miller Neighborizer, 5x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Goon, Town Vanilla Cop, Town Miller Neighborizer, 5x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Godfather, Mafia Role Cop, Town Vanilla Cop, 6x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Godfather, Mafia Goon, Town Vanilla Cop, 6x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Godfather, Mafia Goon, Town Miller Neighborizer, 6x Vanilla Town
  Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Goon, Town Miller Neighborizer, 6x Vanilla Town

Mafia is 2 of Godfather, Role Cop, Encryptor, Goon
Town is 5 VT + 2 of Cop, Vanilla Cop, Miller Neighborizer, VT

Each combination of Mafia roles appears twice, and each combination of Town roles appears twice - the allowed combinations are (very roughly) chosen based on the number of investigators, the number of false negatives and positives for those investigators, and whether scum have daytalk and/or town has a neighborhood.

Each individual role (other than VT) appears in half of the setups, so town power roles don't have a lot of setup knowledge going in, while scum teams have it narrowed down to two possibilities and can possibly claim a power role without getting countered.

Spoiler: Not Known 15

Mafia 1+2+Player 11	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8
1:Mafia Bulletproof + Mafia Hider + Mafia Encryptor	Mason+Mason+Mason	Mason+Mason+Mason	Vigilante + Vengeful + Universal Backup	Vigilante + Vengeful + Universal Backup	Vigilante + Vengeful + Universal Backup	Rolecop + Hider + Motion Detector	Rolecop + Hider + Motion Detector	Vigilante + Vengeful + Universal Backup
2:Mafia Hider + Mafia Ninja + Mafia Encryptor	Mason+Mason+Mason	Mason+Mason+Mason	Rolecop + Encryptor + Motion Detector	Vengeful + Cop	Rolecop + Ninja + Motion Detector	Encryptor + Encryptor + Cop	Rolecop + Hider + Motion Detector	Vigilante + Universal Backup
3:Mafia Bulletproof + Mafia Ninja + Mafia Encryptor	Mason+Mason+Mason	Mason+Mason+Mason	Rolecop + Encryptor + Motion Detector	Vengeful + Cop	Rolecop + Ninja + Motion Detector	Watcher + Watcher + Watcher	Vigilante + Universal Backup	Vigilante + Universal Backup
4:Mafia Encryptor + Mafia Bulletproof + Vanilla Townie	Ninja + Ninja	Ninja + Ninja	Encryptor + Encryptor	Encryptor + Encryptor	Encryptor + Encryptor	Vengeful	Vengeful	Encryptor + Encryptor
5:Mafia Encryptor + Mafia Hider + Vanilla Townie	Ninja + Ninja	Ninja + Ninja	Ninja + Ninja	Encryptor + Encryptor	Motion Detector	Motion Detector	Motion Detector	Vengeful
6:Mafia Encryptor + Mafia Encryptor + Vanilla Townie	Ninja + Ninja	Ninja + Ninja	Encryptor + Encryptor	Encryptor + Encryptor	Encryptor + Encryptor	Vengeful	Vengeful	Encryptor + Encryptor

13 players.
Randomly pick a number between 1 and 8 to pick a column, then randomly pick a number between 1-6 to pick a row. Pick the roles associated with the row (2 mafia+11th player) and the intersection of the picked row and column(1-3 power roles), the rest of players will get a VT role PM.

Spoiler: OkaPoka

Vig 10P

Daytalk standard blah blah

1x Town Vigilante
7x Vanilla Townies

1x Informed Mafioso (You know that one of these three town-aligned players are a Town Vigilante)
1x Goon

Spoiler: popsofctown

Three Can Keep a Secret If

1

Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler

2

Mafia Goon

1

Town Traffic Analyst

1

Town Universal Backup

8

Vanilla Townie

Modnote: Normal Queue Universal Backup only triggers on own alignment, so Town Universal Backup cannot inherit Traffic Analyst Enabler.

Spoiler: Something_Smart

Carbon Copy

Randomly choose one of the following subsetups, all equally likely:

• 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Town Gunsmith, 1 Ascetic Townie, 5 Vanilla Townies
  
• 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Town Gunsmith, 1 Town Vanilla Cop, 5 Vanilla Townies
  
• 2 Mafia Doctors, 1 Town Gunsmith, 1 Town Vanilla Cop, 5 Vanilla Townies
  
• 2 Mafia Doctors, 1 Town Vanilla Cop, 1 Ascetic Townie, 5 Vanilla Townies

Spoiler: student

Sigh

Too many guns V3

2

Mafia Goon

1

Mafia Doctor

2

Town Gunsmith

2

Town Vanilla Cop

5

Vanilla Townie

I like this version because it gets rid of double days with Vig. Under Mass Claim, with a 1-1-1 fakeclaim sort, Lynching in any 1 PR pool could be disastrous if wrong (day2 1 investigate + 6VT vs 3 goons is scumsided) . Under correct lynch, it gives 1 conf town PR (other is killed) in day 2, but the investigate effects are halved: did mafia sort against Vanilla Cop or Gunsmith? (1 IC + 1.5 investigate + 6.5 vt vs 2 goons is townsided). Overall, it doesn't seem like mass-claiming day 1 is optimal.

Without Claim: Gunsmith conditional probability on is scum, when has gun is about 2/3, While Vanilla Cop is about 1/2. Seems like reasonable rewards to investigating correctly, but not so much as to game-breaking.

Spoiler: TemporalLich

Normal Setup #63 v1.1

11 players

1 Mafia Multitasking Rolecop

2 Mafia Goons

1 Town Neighborizer

1 Town Vigilante

6 Vanilla Townies

A Normal setup.

All PTs have daytalk.

Hopefully this is closer to EV-balanced.



I may create an actual setup, but the challenge requirements don't provide much in innovation. My current setup is just called Normal Setup #63 because it's a normal setup.

[Something_Smart]

What happens if they target each other? Magical bouncing bullets?

[Something_Smart]

Oh, I was intending to vote but kept forgetting to. I can put together a full list if people require but between the two I'd break the tie in favor of pops.

[Something_Smart]

Sure.

S_S - Ascetic awkward, yes, but far better than the VT alternative letting scum claim the missing investigative after getting guiltied in these setups.
NK15 - This is real interesting. Balance is definitely off in some subsetups (esp. the 11:2 motion detector ones) but that's true of literally every semi-open here.
Jingle - Pretty standard newbie-style, although a lot of these are really hard on an early scum lunch.
Mith - Innovative idea that I think can be improved on (cop + 6VT vs godfather is disgusting)... also technically does not meet guidelines because GF is not normal.
Pops - Fairly bland and probably townsided compared to Friends & Enemies, but there are a few interesting interactions.
TL - Real close to pops when I was considering the tiebreaker, but the swing of this turned me off. Vig dying before N2 screws town whereas hitting double VT's N1 screws scum.
Oka - again not a huge full vig fan, the randomness of the information, which no townie can predict, also leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
student - this has the potential to swing HARD based on results and claim order, and an early doctor lynch is also really bad for scum. Would work better as a semi-open for sure.

I like semi-opens, if you hadn't noticed