Open 765: Haunted Village (Over)

[Vorkuta]

Hi again to RCE, Penguin, tris, Gamma, ceejay, and nice to meet the rest of you.

Let's VOTE: Vorkuta to fast forward through RVS

[Vorkuta]

Oh shit I just noticed that I made Baezu's sig
#biasedmodding incoming

[Vorkuta]

Good stuff and insightful- ok let's do mechanics then

So based on what the wiki says we know that town has (scum PR points + 3) so whatever combination from the setup table that adds up to that,
I don't think this is the time to speculate about TPRs, but I think it's telling that nothing that messes with a cop or a strongman wasn't chosen

Also let me just UNVOTE:

[Vorkuta]

Hmm, do you prefer town or scum, Vorkuta?

I'm 2-3 as scum so I'm going to go with town because winning feels better
But I have to say it depends on the team and players

[Vorkuta]

My 2 cents
- Not picking a ghost/immortal = no priest
- Not picking bansher = no protective (healer/WH)
- Not picking avenger, and picking a zombie = no vig shot
-
So 6 points = trickster, Angel, enchantress... huhhh and of course simple PoE doesn't work

[Vorkuta]

Scum knows what they are. Town doesnt.
We're at a disadvantage so like... trying to rely on a protective when there isn't one in play is bad.

I'm trying to catch up

[Vorkuta]

There is only one true PP...and it’s the one with the ban powers.

#biasedmodding incoming

*ahem*

First impressions
-I don't like how Norskee is using appeal to his newbiness. Not a fan. My very vast experience with this (hi penguin, please confirm) makes me want to say that this is scummy.
-Ben is a returning vet player and my gut says that he'd be more cautions as scum. Like I think he'd actually tread water carefully and keep his pulse on the game instead of ^, so he can have a town point or two.
-Penguin: town greeting, town reaction to self-vote (ok fine, NAI at worst, town at best)
-RCE: 0/10 would not greet again
-Hoptic:.... the head ^ sucks. Like what even is this preemtive, 'sorry I'm about to lose town-cred'

Rest I'll bug later

[Vorkuta]

I don't like Vorkuta

Is it because of ultimate werewolf?

Problem is we could have 2-4 different roles and the only ones that can really narrow the setup down are non VT already.

I'm actually tempted to go through EVERY SINGLE COMBINATION (3-3, 3-2-1, 2-2-2, 2-2-1-1) to try and PoE this shit.
It's more fun to me that scum hunting tbh

[Vorkuta]

more cautions

english is hard

Also before anyone asks, duplicate TownPRs are allowed

Village roles: {3} -> priest (3/8); {18} -> priest (6/8); {99} -> trickster (7/8); {68*} -> enchantress (8/8)
*repeat random until a 1-point role is drawn

[Vorkuta]

I disagree. I have complete confidence in our PRs' ability to not out themselves.
HOWEVER, I want to know that if we get to the point when we have a play like "vig xxx or cop yyyy" we can actually pull it off.

Also the fact that a zombie is in play is a huge pain in the ass due to them needing to be lynched LAST.

[Vorkuta]

Trickster - 10% (91-100)

That's.... not how RNG works....

ANYWAY
Zombie:
-Last undead to be lynched
-Angel venge
-Enchant shield
-Sorc/WH shot

Am I missing another way to get rid of him?

[Vorkuta]

-Last undead to be lynched

Correction- also if lynched during LyLo/MyLo

[Vorkuta]

What? Low probability =/= impossible

*sighs*
That many tricksters would warrant a banshee (banshee strongman > trickster invis)
or they're banking on the non-consecutive-night kill

[Vorkuta]

What are you hoping to get out of the speculation?

score free and low hanging town points

HOWEVER, I want to know that if we get to the point when we have a play like "vig xxx or cop yyyy" we can actually pull it off.

+
There's a zombie in play. We can't get rid of it by lynching it, and if we have absolutely no tools to get rid of them it would be optimal to enter LyLo ASAP

[Vorkuta]

Also an afterthought- I've played an open normal (two-fold C9++) where a quarter of the players were still fucking confused about the fact that it was a MULTIBALL game ~30 pages in.
I've also played one-night-ultimate-werewolf where players were just confused.
At the very least, this setup speculation will ""inspire"" several players, or inform them of what's possible and what's unlikely.

Also... you know... zombie in play

[Vorkuta]

I don't know what you mean here.

I mean come on
You've played in games where someone goes
"Invest on X, Vig Y, Protecc Z"

What? Like purposely lynching town? Why would we do that?

I still need to think more about this, but for starters it means I'm much more open to policy-ing lurkers out of principle in this game

Also probability-wise the top setups (with 6 points) are

Spoiler:

-Priest x2 (Unlikely = no ghosts or immortals)
-Priest + WH + {Ench/Trickster} (Unlikely = too many PRs, no Vampire)
-Priest + Sorc
-Priest + Healer + {Ench/Trickster}
-Priest + Angel + {Ench/Trickster}

Huhhhhhhhh
The fact that they didn't pick a roleblocker is interesting

[Vorkuta]

I'd like to invite everyone to pretend that they were scum and playing this game with me
How many total TPRs would warrant you picking a role blockers?
3? 4?

[Vorkuta]

because it's safe yeah?

That's my issue, and I'm going to need town consensus/opinion/more experienced setup guys/

the scum team

to comment on this.

ASSUMING this game had like 5 cops.
Would you pick ghosts/immortals to fuck with the cop results
Roleblockers/stoppers/wtvs to "no result" PM them
or a Zombie because "lol fuck you guys" AND "well if they know we're going to pick ghosts/immortals, there goes our element of surprise"

[Vorkuta]

I'd strongman into that instead tbh

[Vorkuta]

17

I honestly would pick a vampire into 3 PRs- just via sheer force of RNG you have a chance of hitting something.

Strongman says "hey you guys definitely have a healer".

Shit that's a good point

and why everyone needs to chip in their 2 cents

Ok, the ONLY 6 point 100% Zombie-safe setup
Priest & Healer & Trickster (or 2 priests, or 3 healers, or 4 tricksters and.... you get the idea)
and that warrants a vamp to prevent follow-the-cop nonsense

[Vorkuta]

Ok
I would feel safe picking zombie into a 1-shot (Angel or WH), but definitely NOT into a sorcerer or enchantress

Priest (3)
Witch Hunter (2)

Sorceress (3)

Enchantress (1)

Healer (2)

Angel (2)
Trickster (1)

[Vorkuta]

I'm doing my best to refrain from brute forcing all the combinations.
But like come on- would you pick a zombie into 2 priests?

[Vorkuta]

First impressions
-I don't like how Norskee is using appeal to his newbiness. Not a fan. My very vast experience with this (hi penguin, please confirm) makes me want to say that this is scummy.
-Ben is a returning vet player and my gut says that he'd be more cautions as scum. Like I think he'd actually tread water carefully and keep his pulse on the game instead of ^, so he can have a town point or two.
-Penguin: town greeting, town reaction to self-vote (ok fine, NAI at worst, town at best)
-RCE: 0/10 would not greet again
-Hoptic:.... the head ^ sucks. Like what even is this preemtive, 'sorry I'm about to lose town-cred'

+Penguin: town for actually wanting to push the game. Reads just like in previous game with him
tris: acceptable townie level of skepticism/cynicism
RCE: setup spec'd with me. gets points
UiT: #99 gets a town lean for the openness

[Vorkuta]

The more pages ceejay misses without posting for the first time the townier he gets

[Vorkuta]

if we have absolutely no tools to get rid of them it would be optimal to enter LyLo ASAP

I do NOT want to throw the vote to get into LyLo early. It's like throwing a tribal immunity challenge in Survivor, you're playing with fire.

idontunderstandthereference.jpg

Yeah no, that wasn't my brightest idea

Huhhhhhhhh
The fact that they didn't pick a roleblocker is interesting

Or just dumb

I look at the players and.... scum is bound to have at least SOMEONE who's skilled with mechanics and all that

Easier to follow

noted

[Vorkuta]

Ghost/immortal. Roleblocker at that point can't keep up. Maybe zombie now that you put it on the table?

But you get the 'reduction ad absurdum' point of my question?

Hypothetical 2 priests

-Immortal is announced = town clears are unreliable, 2 Red,
-Ghost is announced = 10 Green, 3+ red fake guilties, and the WIFOM potential of "I WAS FRAMED"
-Zombie is announced = 10 Green, 3 Red but good luck trying to lynch a red flip

hmmmm... no.

This is a 6 AP setup... I really think we have at least one trickster/non-consecutive commuter.

Shit I keep thinking that unded/scum needs to have an answer for EVERY PR, but their solution to this could very well be "let's just ignore it lawl"

[Vorkuta]

Who are you and what makes you think you can leverage my town-cred to further your agenda?
*looks at hydra name*
oh hi orfhz

VOTE: UiT

[Vorkuta]

Ok slight seriousness

I feel like the concern about the speed of the wagon on vorkuta is fake considering it was just an rvs wagon. And I don’t like how you’re just shading an entire wagon without saying who you didn’t like on it.

Good point

@UiT- ok sure, its recently become quite trendy for the entire scum team to jump on a single person because "There's no way all scum members would do that!!11!!", but put in the legwork please

Vorkuta (5) L-2 ~ Vorkuta PenguinPower, NaCl, benhalkum, RCEnigma

[Vorkuta]

Considering a zombie/delayed lynchproof exists this might be feasibly interpreted as a scumclaim.

Yeah... if you think about it, this falls apart because unless there's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to kill a zombie, a D1 zombie lynch dies on N2. And an angel/vengeful trade for a zombie

is worth it

early on. Saying this to no one in particular at all
The D2 & D3 zombie lynches are the ones that make the role broken.

RCE's vote is L-2 but a basic RVS vote

What's the difference between PP's RVS and RCE's RVS?
Just log-on time?

vote-waffling.

Idk he shows awareness. Isn't this waffling typically a townie thing to do?

[Vorkuta]

And an angel/vengeful trade

Oh shit, an angel venge shot is disloyal (in this game- no ghosts/framers & immortals/godfathers to care about)

[Vorkuta]

The more pages ceejay misses without posting for the first time the townier he gets

page 7

[Vorkuta]

Could someone explain to me what delayed lynchproof does exactly? They activate their lynchproof ability the night before they're lynchproof for the day? How many shots is this?

Zombie

Reanimation (reactive): if lynched, the zombie will rise from the dead on the next dawn, but only if another undead exists
- will be slain for good if killed in any way other than lynching
- if dead and awaiting reanimation, the zombie cannot be put to rest by normal means
- will not reanimate if doing so will endgame the remaining players

Nope- it's REACTIVE
Because I'm not seeing modifiers like "non-consecutive" or "X-shot", I'm assuming it's... permanent.
Which is why I went through the trouble of actually trying to figure out how to get rid of one, and whether we could do anything but pray during M/Lylo

*cough* Vortuka *sneeze*.

Blow me- I've given my 2 cents on like everyone on the roster already

clear consise

paragraphs.

We can keep working on that

[Vorkuta]

pedit
your self-consciousness and self-awareness lost you a bunch of points

[Vorkuta]

What do you mean it's permanent? What does the delayed element mean, it doesn't work on the first day?

D1- Zombie Lynch
N1- Zombie laughs
D2- Zombie comes back

D2- Zombie Lynched AGAIN
N2- Zombie keeps on laughing
D3- Zombie comes back

D3- Because we don't learn, zombie gets lynched AGAIN
...
...

Delayed meaning that he's "dead" at night time.
Which means (from what I understand) that if there are 2 scum by Day X, and the zombie gets lynched, a successful vig-shot on the Zombie's buddy would win the game.
However tomorrow (on day time) the zombie would rez back

[Vorkuta]

"hey lets stop setup speccing and focus on solving" -Hec
"hey how do zombies work again?" -also Hec


*ahem*
Gamma's rapport with me feels genuine and town-solvey, and not scum out for misleading/pocketing purposes.

I have nothing on PP (firebird), but the ben vote seems kind of random/naked/unlinked so idk what to think about that

PP (sushi chef) feels townie with his

how do I phrase this without getting banned

lack of solid content

UiT's rebuttal to orfhz.... worked?
I mean what else was he going to say, but I don't think "RVS WAGON SPEED IS TOO FAST" is a scum!point to make so UNVOTE: from there

Waiting on ben to stop by and be fun

[Vorkuta]

what?

ISO the guy.
Until recently OG-PP has been semi-trolling and joke-posting which I think is a townie characteristic for him.
Now he's engaging in townie back and forth with you/us.

[Vorkuta]

Hmm it's a bit difficult to butt in with my reads

-self awareness
-OMGUSy shade given that I've accused him of overplaying his newbie card

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a winner

[Vorkuta]

OMGUS? What's that?

"Oh my god u suck"- it's "you hate me, so I hate you"

I can see why you'd think that. I've accused other people of this off-site.

Basically I'm not satisfied with this response and I think you've been shading me ever since then

Hmm.. do I buy this... do I buy this...
*puts in back on the shelf*
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for a bit, but I don't like how you're using your newbie card all the time.

Like, in exactly the same way you (plural?) are accusing me of hiding behind setup spec (which is BS because I've mentioned every single player here), you're hiding behind "hey I'm new here". That's where my issue with you is.

[Vorkuta]

Because that's just plain wrong

Your spite MAYBE slightly motivated by my prior accusations against you as well.

seem like you are "fishing" for PR's

I disagree. I have complete confidence in our PRs' ability to not out themselves.

[Vorkuta]

Ok, i'll make sure to pretend i'm a mafia professional from now on.

Good shit- it's what half the forum is doing

[Vorkuta]

i havent read the setup

you're welcome, I've been chewing it down for you

Don't read him town for the setup spec - he's done it as both alignments.

Reading me based on TwoFoldC9++

Zombie's not a great role for scum

So how do we get rid of it

I completely disagree

I too, disagree with my ability to unvote off of my own wagon.

Yeah... since when were wagons a bad thing?

[Vorkuta]

I can't wait for him to meet creature

[Vorkuta]

Wanna vote Hoptic with me?

Oh man I feel so popular with people fighting over my vote

That hydra has a really interesting dynamic with me hating everything Hec has to say and Hop being... much better, but I think we'll be able to read them better with time.

I want NaCl, Ben, and he Is to come by and start existing so I can get a clearer picture of things

[Vorkuta]

he Is

TRIS

Also chemist's story about how I setup spec as scum comes from TFC9++ and I have to stare at him long and hard if he thinks that it's a strong example of how I play as scum

[Vorkuta]

Reading me based on TwoFoldC9++

I don't think that's what he did at all.

I have 5 scum games on site, and setup-spec'd only in 1 as scum, and those circumstances were completely different.

[Vorkuta]

CogDis

Wat

Cognitive dissonance.
Feels like he just wanted to use fancy terminology to score points as opposed to making a solid argument IMHO

[Vorkuta]

Why

Solvey, active, pushing reads, developing reads, engaged in nuanced back-and-forth....

[Vorkuta]

But what the actual **** am i reading? Lmao.

I allow it this time
Hec's Gamma push makes me feel like I'm an idiot as well

or it's just plain manufactured

Wasn't asking you

[Vorkuta]

I want to see what damage control the other hydra head comes up with before I deliver a verdict on hoptic

[Vorkuta]

I couldn't tell from the setup info,

- The undead role are Zombie, Witch and Ghoul

And this is 10:3

And of course, time for Round 2:
-"Guys, setup spec is a distraction" ~BP
-"Btw, what's the scum team again?" ~also BP

[Vorkuta]

{PP, GE, BS}
{RCE, UiT}
{NosrkEE, fake-PP, Hop}

Say literally anything please tier: {NaCl, Ben, Tris, CJ}

Oh man this readlist is so not confusing at all

[Vorkuta]

Yes... you're totally the one I'm town-reading

[Vorkuta]

..........
We know for a fact that the scum team is
-1 Goon
-1 Role Cop
-1 Delayed Lynchproof
Like.....

This is "TIL THIS WAS A MULTIBALL GAEM" 40 pages in all over again

[Vorkuta]

No this, is 10:3 and I apologize for the confusion

Also an afterthought- I've played an open normal (two-fold C9++) where a quarter of the players were still fucking confused about the fact that it was a MULTIBALL game ~30 pages in.

The ^ equivalent is "we know the scum!team????!?" by page 20

[Vorkuta]

Probably means there's not JOAT or Priest then, since they don't have a framer/godfather,

Your contribution is like 10 pages late but is welcome
Also a very rich 180 from "let's stop setup spec pls"

Does framer affect the JOAT's tracker ability?

No it does not- only COPs
(Obligatory- If a JOAT tracks a ghost using their frame ability, they WILL see that "ghost has targetted XXX")

[Vorkuta]

Is there a way to get rid of the zombie outside of lynching it? Like any townie power roles?

Trickster - 10% (91-100)

That's.... not how RNG works....

ANYWAY
Zombie:
-Last undead to be lynched
-Angel venge
-Enchant shield
-Sorc/WH shot

Am I missing another way to get rid of him?

Oh answered by TL already but meh- I claim dibs

I don't agree with where Hop or Asgard is (I'm calling Norwegian Asgard because it's easier and more fun)

Sorry, I'm going by my list of "Shit people pull on D1 that make me scum-read them without exceptions".
They'll have time to redeem themselves mind you, and I'm more interested in the people in the "say stuff" tier.

[Vorkuta]

[Vorkuta]

I'm slightly butthurt and want to be vindicated

[Vorkuta]

Not a massive fan of Beta Saphire.

orfhz slot good, menalque slot really bad tone-wise and "shut up / stop posting / policy fake-PP" is horrible
Kind of like your hydra dynamic tbh, except menalque is a much worse offender in that regard

Liking a lot of the active people.

@mod

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIFF PRODS

okee

[Vorkuta]

Woah which half of our hydra is the offender here.

*inhales*
The one that spends hours trying to come up with memes to post in here.

And then setup specs anyway

.

Like this game is already unnecessarily more complicated than it needs to be without his trolling.
I love the guy, but wow sorting is going to be so painful.
Come to think of it that's 70% of why I put you on the bottom of my

tier

read list.

[Vorkuta]

(I hope)

hec pls confirm kthnx

Do you mean complexity due to setup or from something else?

-The unknown setup and the obvious disadvantage town is at from their PR's being counterpicked
-The hydra interactions and the starking difference between every head of every hydra
-The single-digit-post-count slots (oh shit tris is in double digits :/)... haven't obv!town'd themselves yet and have left no impression on me (barring ben's nice and polite opening)
-The love-hate drama between PP/fake-PP/UiT/BS/GE honestly feels manufactured and forced, but reading it without knowing player history is hard.

And yeah

[Vorkuta]

How long

Prod & Replace so ~2 more days I suppose.

Like if someone makes 1 prodge post and then lurks for another day and a half, I'm down to policy them, but I don't think I/we can beetlejuice them into existence with our votes alone.

What kind of question is this though lawl

[Vorkuta]

Because assuming they don't rep out that's a wide pool of oops deadline lynches on top of your scumreads.

So we just all vote a lurker right now?
VOTE: Salt

Interesting actually, does the rolestop just delay the resurrection or actually kill the zombie?

Enchantress

Spell Shield: protects the target from harmful magical abilities, but will not stop normal kills
-vampires, ghosts, and death knights won't affect shielded targets
-banshee wails and sorceress lightning won't kill shielded targets
- shielded zombies won't reanimate

for the night

-witch divinations on shielded targets return "no result" as if roleblocked

So if the zombie gets perma role-stopped until LyLo, that's technically a fix.

[Vorkuta]

Of all the nonposters to pick.

He's v/la...

[Vorkuta]

Doesn't show up on the activity overview- plus longest time without any activity

*ahem*

block a vig

WELCOME TO THE SETUP SPEC I'VE BEEN DOING WHERE I RULED OUT THAT PROBABILITY
please enjoy your stay

/s

Obviously we'll discuss 'but what happens if he flips zombie and doesn't die' later and try and coordinate our PRs but yeah.

[Vorkuta]

Shoot sorry
I clicked the Activity Overview button my bad
UNVOTE:

Ben has a ton of votes so let's
VOTE: CJ

[Vorkuta]

Oh cool actually vork + RCE could definitely be a thing based on the last page or so

Your insights are valuable and very much appreciated

[Vorkuta]

I can see why creature enjoys this.

Enjoys what

Realtime catchup post wall-spam

[Vorkuta]

I'm assuming it's your play style to be infuriating and unhelpful going off this

You're not helping your case with comments like that.

And is this the first time you've played

against

with Penguin?

[Vorkuta]

and vote Platinum Chenny.

My vote is being put to good use where it is right now TRYING TO BEETLE JUICE CJ INTO EXISTENCE

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: PP

it's funny because it could refer to either one of you and as a result this vote shouldn't count

Right what else can I come up with.
I have a slight issue with RCE not really taking a "controlling" or active/solvey role in the game as I remember him doing in Jazz, but his behavior is kinda similar to Musicals/NK2058/EICN so I'll let him of the hook for today.

NaCl's wall post reminds me of back when I was a newb and someone bullied me, so I wall-posted out of desperation.
It has a ton of things I disagree with and it felt "reactive", political, and slightly manufactured as if to appease other members here.

Speaking of political and reactive- norskee... has uh... also um... yeah idk what to make of his ISO

chenny is funny because I really remember having to work hard to try and squeeze content out of him in previous games, but this time it's rolling and not stopping so I have no idea what that indicates.
Like

@platinum

- are you picking a fight with the OG-PP because you genuinely hand-over-your-heart view him as scum? Because this has degraded into an 'ego-battle' and is detrimental to solving IMHO

tris should ask fewer questions and give more answers. prolly playstyle and NAI, but I'm not a fan.

[Vorkuta]

i powerplay more often as

both

alignments now

Also, please self-meta more.

huhhhhhhh
Do I buy it?...

[Vorkuta]

I'm currently looking through ISOs, but do you have anything specific you'd like to ask me about right now?

-PP vs PP: TvT or TvS? Or SvS manufactured drama?
-Lurker slots: Ben & CJ: policy or wait and pray?
-2 words about the setup so I can relax knowing that you acknowledge and more or less understand what shithole we're in PR-wise

[Vorkuta]

Like ok, I'm sorry, but his level of shit-posting, gifing, trolling, dgaf-ery, and "I am the OG PP" just isn't something I buy from a scum!penguin.
I don't want to say "outside his scum!range", but I think OG-PP is in his element when he's free to post wine-gifs without any repercussions and I don't think that can be faked
Also he was my

marathon

scumbuddy just now so there's that level of familiarity as well

[Vorkuta]

Guhh please don't tell me that's ongoing

[Vorkuta]

Quickly bury it before list-mod PP wakes up and takes action

[Vorkuta]

None of this is outside of his scumrange

I'm sure that's true, but you can't sell me that this game

"I'm townreading him because X is townreading him."

my TR on him is independent of others and was pretty much consolidated by #79

[Vorkuta]

What if I told you everything was somewhat normal?

Fuck. I buy it now

[Vorkuta]

Didn't know it was against the rules

pro-tip, don't say this when there's a player with his name in green playing with you
Nah- what's done is done, harmless, innocent mistake

totally manufactured intentional townslip

and probably no harm done.
To be honest most of us probably ISO other players' ongoing games as well, except we aren't explicitly allowed to say/reference/invoke/discuss them so yeah.
Hope you don't get punished

ANYWAY

I've been lynched day 1 so many times lately just because i tried to aggressively solve the game and got my ass kicked

Yeah you're playing with big boys now so it's ok to be as aggressive as you want to be, if that's what comes naturally to you. It might help us more than you think, even if you're mistaken or we disagree with you.

we've got more than 10 days before the deadline. No point rushing things.

>ptsdflashbacks intensifying

[Vorkuta]

Were you scum then, though

Subject: Mini Normal 2046: Autumn's Farewell [Endgame]

Please don't townread that awful post because it has a lot of words.

TL;DR- no, I was town, but

eddiecane

mbaki was dead set on making sure I was going down for even attempting to crawl my way back up

[Vorkuta]

I will both you

[Vorkuta]

Is this game just hard to get into, or is everyone intentionally lurking?

[Vorkuta]

Was that generic copy pasta that applies to every single mafia game out there?
Or does it have a practical application to THIS GAME in particular?

[Vorkuta]

Challenging site meta.
I dig it

My opinion is that
-potentially mislynching an unproductive/unreliable/annoying/

hydra

/lurking or Lylo liabilities
-getting a lynch to see associations and for the information
-lynching... you know... scum

is better than the No Lynch you're proposing.
Plus I doubt you'd get the consensus necessary considering how bloodthirsty this player base is.

[Vorkuta]

Well, obviously you have greater wisdom than the rest of us

Vorkuta:

oh man I feel honored this game

Care to enlighten your suggestion/thought process?

ISO me- I've dropped quite a few nuggets of enlightenment in this game

[Vorkuta]

I have nothing more productive to add other than continuing to rehash basic game logic we're all aware of

Self-awareness. town points

So enough about mafia theory-crafting and optimal D1 play discussion and all that good stuff.
Can we get a few reads or comments on interactions on the players so far?

[Vorkuta]

Which worked.

Yes... it was your vote that....
What else would you like to take credit for?
Just...

And you ASK us why we think your slot is scummy

[Vorkuta]

-Trying to take credit for ben rejoining us (when he was clear out for IRL issues) is complete BS
-You're scummy because everything you do is scummy.
The fights you pick, the tone with which you pick the fights, the 360-moonwalk shift in your meta from "chenny-the-lurker" to "chenny-the-powerplayer" is something I want to put back on the shelf with every single post of yours.
-Your votes are trash and are on people you have a grudge/ego battle with or low-hanging-fruit that you want to mislynch ASAP.
-Your playstyle is extremely reactive and it's almost as if you show no interest in solving the game, but rather want to stir the pot and encourage infighting.

Case in point- trying to shift the BoP is lazy, especially when it's pretty damn clear why half the roster scumreads you.
Just let me take credit for CJ rejoining us, then I'll be on your wagon as well.

[Vorkuta]

I said I sparked a discussion

you sparked discussion...
your sparked 2 posts and everything else was unrelated

[Vorkuta]

Cyclical and stupid point.

idk its quite par for this game.
Or would you prefer the phrasing "every other post you make makes me pop a vein"?

We're a very dysfunctional hydra.

So are hoptic and yet they aren't doing as bad as you are

Can you provide the votes that relate to this because you are wrong.

oh shit you actually weren't voting the people you were picking fights with.
withdrawn

Proof to the contrary

#708- 1
#710- such discussion
#711- has nothing
#712- 2
#713- inevitable
#715- 3
#717- not in response to your ben vote

*clap clap clap*
Further proof that you're trying to retroactively inflate your """achievement/contribution""" to LAMIST away your scuminess.

[Vorkuta]

If that's the case you should get some blood pressure medication.

Concern noted
Your tone and arguments are unsoothing to myself and part of the roster

Some discussion is still discussion.

SO. Let's analyze what you're doing here.
I'm telling you that you're backtracking off your ben vote which was obviously scummy, and trying to hiding behind motivating """discussion""" during a state of in-game downtime.

And instead of rebutting the point above ^, you're trying to shift the burden of proof and are derailing by making me fucking COUNT the number of discussion posts that was generated as a result of your ben vote.

Do you not see how your approach is dishonest at best and scummy at worst?

[Vorkuta]

-Your playstyle is extremely reactive and it's almost as if you show no interest in solving the game, but rather want to stir the pot and encourage infighting.

You forgot this right here which is quite a significant portion of what you guys have been doing this game.

But sure, let's reductio ad absurdum everything down to 2 measly points.

[Vorkuta]

You were scum reading me before any of the Ben stuff

I can provide similar analysis with your earlier. I just did it to the ben stuff in particular because it's recent/fresh-in-everyone's memories and kind of encompasses the issue at hand.

3? most infulencial players in the game - you, pp, gamma

paging

CJ

hoptic who's posts are infinitely more fun to read and content-packed than mine are

have been scum reading us for most of the game

Was that before or after you picked fights with them? Genuine question about chronology as it might help- did they scum-read you BECAUSE you were so aggressive, or did you become aggressive and escalate stuff afterwards?

[Vorkuta]

shit I meant to

To your credit I think more and more Vorkuta may be scum

Are you throwing down the gauntlet?

I've seen like one post defending him.

*waves*
I've made a few

[Vorkuta]

That's from a quick glace at ISO's and memory

Yeah sounds about right- I think we've avoided direct confrontation for the most part, and I just hated your (chenny's) reaction to things, but I was too busy

bullying

trying to sort hectic&norskee while setupspecc'ing while letting you big boys duke it out amongst yourselves.

Maybe it's TMI? Maybe it's Maybelline.

you get a pass because I have other things I want done, but you better deliver

[Vorkuta]

I'm just going to say this out loud to absolutely no hydra in particular: blaming shit on your other head, especially if it doesn't go down the way you want to, should be policy'd

[Vorkuta]

i don't like this post my partner made

Quote fixed- and come on. You get the SPIRIT of what he was saying even though he didn't use big-boy terminology to get that point across.

dont particularly like this

Neither do I but I've stated my grievances.
However does this come from scum who's come back from a long hiatus?

gamma pp vorky are my candidates for scum

gamma is #1

Man... elements almost might've possibly perhaps worked/politic'd his way back into a null-read.
Then you pull this shit, attack the town!block, and remind us why we SR you guys.

[Vorkuta]

You get the SPIRIT o

Clarifying- this is at you hating on norskee's response to your 'unapproved partner post'

[Vorkuta]

1) saying that elements was getting the slot less scumread with recent play isn't true

.....
I'm fucking saying it was true. And considering "recent play" has been just us 2 (hi RCE) after ben and co. left....

and why is gamma in townblock again?

*sighs*

Gamma's rapport with me feels genuine and town-solvey, and not scum out for misleading/pocketing purposes.

penguin has another post like that somewhere in his ISO.

So. INSTEAD of "what-about-that-other-guy"-ism, can you do this for me?
You've made bade posts/votes that were IMMEDIATELY followed up by "this is scummy" or "chenny rolled scum this game didn't he" from other players. And your KNEE-JERK REACTION was basically 'stfu scum'.
Could you possibly go back and defend your own statements from the perspective of being wrongly-accused by wrong!town?

[Vorkuta]

Ooh ooh.if we're doing stupid things, can I invoke my marathon meta on PP as well?

[Vorkuta]

Vorkuta's 100% guaranteed to be correct or your money back VC
Edition #1

Fake-PP

(4)

: GE(#822), Hoptic(#713),
NorwegianboyEE(#717), OG-PP(#220)

benhalkum

(1)

: UiT(#48),
tris

(1)

: NaCl(#598),
CJ

(1)

: Vork(#527)
RCEnigma

(1)

: BS(#538)
GE

(1)

: Fake-PP (#776)

Not Voting

(3)

: Ben(#740), tris(#547), CJ

[Vorkuta]

Beta Sapphire

(1)

: RCE(#553)

Now even more correct

[Vorkuta]

So completely fragmented and no counterwagon...
What does wagonomics 101 heavily imply then?

[Vorkuta]

What would the core!scum team be doing if Fake-PP was one of them?

[Vorkuta]

Ben- you're null scum and above conf!scum BP in that read list
See "all null" 2 rows above your name

[Vorkuta]

Vorkuta's 100% guaranteed to be correct or your money back VC
Edition #2- even more correct than the previous edition

Fake-PP (5)

: GE(#822), Hoptic(#713),
NorwegianboyEE(#717), OG-PP(#220), RCE(#847)

benhalkum (1)

: UiT(#48),

tris (1)

: NaCl(#598),

CJ (1)

: Vork(#527)

RCEnigma (1)

: BS(#538)

Not Voting (4)

: Ben(#740), tris(#547), CJ, Fake-PP(#885)

[Vorkuta]

693 is objectively scummy so

You guys know that you're for all intents and purposes @L-1 right?

[Vorkuta]

Ballsy stance

[Vorkuta]

So is the entire scum team already on you, or is scum trying to find a way to weasel in a hammer?

[Vorkuta]

UNVOTE:

[Vorkuta]

This is a change I did not know was made.

What was the change?
The amount of points per role?

[Vorkuta]

he called Salt’s post reactive and political, etc but didn’t follow up there

I'm 99% sure you're confusing that with norskee as thats the impression I have of him.
NaCl is just parroting at best, but I don't recall ever actually pressuring him

[Vorkuta]

I don't think they're directly relatble because of the playerlists.

The player base and mod was damn near identical...

You were Tet in Jazz, and I was a mason outed on D1, so yes the situation is not directly relatable

[Vorkuta]

This is a change I did not know was made.

What was the change?
The amount of points per role?

@

S_S- which game change?

[Vorkuta]

Shiet
So basically in previous iterations, we had no way of knowing whether cop-checks or wtv could be tampered with.

Anyway- reads please. You're already miles ahead of your predecessor but I'd like to townbin and forget about you ASAP

[Vorkuta]

S_S feels town based on ^ insights. The way he did it doesn't seem to come from scum who's complaining or bragging, but from town who's interested in everyone being informed and yeah.
NAI at worst

Who to bully next hmm....

Also 1011 from Ben misquoted me.

[Vorkuta]

Just a personal verdict.

I think a scum opening would've been much less neutral and more game-focused, but the way he's dipping his toes in the water while dropping nuggets of wisdom feels town.
And complaining/bragging isn't something S_S does lol. I just don't see scum opening with "Huh dat rule change"

[Vorkuta]

I too forgot that tris was in this game

[Vorkuta]

NaCl's wall post reminds me of back when I was a newb and someone bullied me, so I wall-posted out of desperation.
It has a ton of things I disagree with and it felt "reactive", political, and slightly manufactured as if to appease other members here.

oh shit you want some more of this?

[Vorkuta]

Anyway-it's kind of a pain to engage with people who don't engage back.
NaCl drops the occasional one liner in my direction but that's about it.

Plus... you know... there's the rest of the roster out there to aid me in my inquisition, so I rely on them to pick up the slack as well

[Vorkuta]

For one you always play differently around FL

Fake and gay.
I play differently depending on how many good players there are (including papa leaf) in my game, and depending on how over-gamed I am.
Also... I was the mason. There's literally nothing to do as a "confirmed" mason

the town leader position

ooh pick me! pick mee!!!

yeah fair I suppose

Plus FB/Elsa

get your replacements straight

I think the veterans in this playerlist are a lot more passive early and that gives scum space to work.

....
*looks at activity log*
k
oh wow S_S is so passive *smh*

TL;DR, I don't buy this analysis, I don't understand what its trying to convey, and I don't understand how that translates to potential concrete reads/tactics in this game.

[Vorkuta]

I think it's likely his partners would have explained it to him.

I think a third of the people have played dumb with the setup early on in the beginning- that's no reason to townbin them at all. My impulse reaction to half of them (after facepalming and wanting to tell them to RTFM) was to tell them to stop fake!slipping, but as evidenced with games like TFC9++, not understanding the setup is par for the course on this site IMHO

Because I'm not really the teamwork kind of guy.

*inhales*
This and the above 3 posts are horrible, but I don't think scum is usually this brazen.
Points for honesty I suppose but damn

Also what an arbitrary question to ask. Dayvig: Vorkuta

Really now.
I don't like it when you play around with toys like these

[Vorkuta]

There haven't been enough votecounts for me to really get a good idea of how wagons have been moving. Why does the wagon exist?

I've made a few as well just FYI
ctrl+f "vork's 100% official vote counts"

Right so updates and shit
S_S can be townbinned
tris is still making it very difficult for me to get a read on her, or for even me to get an impression on her, and me no likey
RCE and NaCl are grinding my gears
fake-PP has toned it down and has been 'productive' to the point of me wanting to give him town-points, however I sense that this behavior change is most likely due to the wagon on him.
norskee feels like he's activating and becoming more comfortable with the game and player-base, so that should help, I approve

The lack of a proper counter-wagon to fake-PP is still vexing.

[Vorkuta]

There's being honest, being game-solvey, and playing good faith

Then there's being honest, being game-solvey, and playing in good faith.... while being at L-1 (which he basically is)

[Vorkuta]

How is it less towny when it's done at L-1, if it still looks genuine?

What even is this question?

Contribution and gamesolves (and all the good stuff) under no pressure whatsoever vs. good stuff under L-1 pressure where the guy is willing to say anything and everything just to diffuse the wagon.
I can't and won't separate "what" a person is saying from "when" a person is saying it.

Like for example (not relevant to this game... I hope )- I believe that in a 'dead' game-state, scum has no incentive to post. Thus anyone doing the bare minimum will get town points for doing so. HOWEVER, if the same person, posted the same content, in the middle of a heated discussion, then he won't get as many town points from me.

[Vorkuta]

Look, do you want something from me, Vorkuta?

Your head
VOTE: Salt

[Vorkuta]

About time I put my vote where my mouth is

[Vorkuta]

They've been lynched every time I've ever seen them as scum (three times) and never as the last on their team, and they get lynched a fair amount as town, and they are known for weird and inventive scum play. So I could definitely see them insisting on zombie and their teammates obliging.

I'll.... take that as a compliment I suppose.

If you did research on my scum play, you'd also know that I prioritize a team victory and would never selfishly insist on a play like that when/if there are more optimal alternatives at hand.
Also what would I hypothetically even do once I "flip zombie"?

[Vorkuta]

pedit

"""""subtle"""""

[Vorkuta]

Interesting line of questioning, but you know that I'm more confident in my mechanics
I've already laid out my thought process on the setup-spec much earlier and I thought we moved past that


I'd've counter picked 'optimally', but probably not have insisted on getting the zombie if that was the play to make.

Godfather maybe because I'm traumatized from always being 'investigated' (Musicals, """EICN""", My Cats), but that's if there was a priest & another cop shot.
However it would depend on "my" scum team- if we had a veteran/experienced player who could pick out the cop invest. target, then ghost and witch.
Vampire (and witch) if only 1 priest and/or 3 TPRs as I don't think ""ignoring"" a hypo-trickster is a viable option.

IMHO Zombie is a dedicated counterpick to the "perceived" lack of shots from TPRs (prolly into angels)- all it does is potentially buy an earlier day of LyLo, and even then it's optimal to lynch a conf!zombie as it guarantees either a no-kill gambit to rez, or to give up the zombie.

pedit
Yeah I'm "not bad" at obv!towning on the first day as either alignment, but then something happens and I get caught

[Vorkuta]

I'm still against pretty much all the hydras +Vork

So there's "staged" cross-fighting against the hydras?
Mighty convenient.

Killing me off is a blatant scumclaim

Is this about #1036? Because you've literally just "k"d to it and nothing more.

I just want ohfrz to stop sweet talking me because I think half the Hydra is townish and then there's Menalque.

such original thought process, much parroting
tbf, Menalque accused you (us) of colluding so there's that to reconcile as well

[Vorkuta]

Now is as good a time as any for volume 2

{PP, GE, S_S}
{UiT, NorskEE, Hop}
{BS, Ben}
{fake-PP, RCE, Tris, NaCl}

Pretty sure I made my position on the core!town block and fake-PP quite clear so there's that.
Hop and UiT are really a mixed bag when it comes to reading each hydra head, especially with their different voices and personalities, and... 'agendas' that each head pushes, but I don't want to include a null tier so they can have the benefit of the doubt.

NorskEE has stepped it up and gotten more confident so he's allowed to be up here.

Ben.... has... disappeared.... somewhere.... once again.
BS is as above ^. I like the o head and dislike the m head.

Tris's presence in game is.... lackluster, and IMHO perfectly fits the pattern of scum who's perfectly fine with casual pop-in questions without any substance to avoid suspicion. Like MAYBE there's the offchance that she's making reads and analyzing things, but the... 'randomness' of her questions isn't something I like.
Plus- I completely forgot my impression of her, and breezing under my radar is hard (I think)

I thought I was going somewhere with my RCE analysis with around #643 but then he just completely ignores my #1036 which triggers me
His recent posting has been painful to read and is probably just okham's razor scum!posting than me coming up with other explanations for the guy.
Like I'm used to town!RCE 'dominating' and 'controlling' the game in a productive and forward way. This isn't it.

As somebody else rightfully pointed out NaCl triggers me, and I have no idea why I've been pursuing other agendas over this guy.
A reread of his ISO shows more emphasis on setup-spec than... anything else, and his #598 seems.... what's the term... I forgot the buzzword of the day to describe it.
Doesn't help that he's also on the low end of the activity count so tris's arguments from ^ apply here as well.
Lone-wolfing is a nice cherry on top that I dislike

Spoiler:

{PP, GE, BS}
{RCE, UiT}
{NosrkEE, fake-PP, Hop}

Say literally anything please tier: {NaCl, Ben, Tris, CJ}

Oh man this readlist is so not confusing at all

[Vorkuta]

Vorkuta's 100% guaranteed to be correct or your money back VC
Edition #3- back due to popular request
Just stole this from Baezu- only 2 changes since then

Platinum Phoenix (5) L-2~

PenguinPower, Hoptic, norwegianboyEE, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma

benhalkum (1) ~

Unstuck in Time

RCEnigma (1) ~

Beta Sapphire

norwegianboyEE (1) ~

NaCl

S_S (1) ~

Tris (#1076)

NaCl (1) ~

Vorkuta (#1141)

Not Voting (3) ~

Something_Smart, benhalkum, Platinum Phoenix,

[Vorkuta]

Aaand heres my Hydra rant

No like I get it

I'm just going to say this out loud to absolutely no hydra in particular: blaming shit on your other head, especially if it doesn't go down the way you want to, should be policy'd

However "all of them" in your scum pool is mighty convenient and feels like you just want as many D1 mislynch options as possible

What about 1036?

It was bad and you dayvigged me over it so, yet you still refuse to update your garbage logic there with a response

Why would I need to reconcile anything?

[Vorkuta]

-Yes you do, in a noticeable way.

Is papa leaf in this game right now?
Or am I playing differently around all the other players here as well?
This shade is unwarranted

-Elsa replaced FB in jazz

*inhales*
You know that the slot was scum in Jazz.

You count as well

I don't often see you pushing your reads hard

Because my D1 reads have pretty much always been notoriously bad/wrong/invalid and I myself am aware of this fact...?
Also I can't push a current scum!read (salt) when he's... being like this.
It just doesn't work.

I don't want to do the thing where people go "hey *random player*, come vote *this guy* with me" as I don't think so.
I have a solid case against salt in this case, and multiple people have acknowledged it. It's out of my hands as to whether people think he's worth following up on, just keeping an eye on him, or outright dismissing.


Once again- the logic and rebuttals are bad and don't come from the town!RCE that I'm used to.

[Vorkuta]

Not Mr. 'Death to Hydras', but my grievances are especially with Fake-PP who used the "that was my other head" and "I don't know why the other head did/said/voted that" point like 2/3 times so far and have a self proclaimed aggressive head.
Also the 'stop fucking posting you fuckers' from M was a huge 180 shift that I didn't approve of.

You and UiT are fine with regards to 'head brazeness' and reads, but your agendas feel slightly off.
Like the impression I have is that one head wants to push scumreads while the other wants to ask questions and townhunt, and you're lucky enough to get the best of both worlds by being a hydra, That slight disconnect gives me a tiny (probably unjustified) ping

[Vorkuta]

Vorkuta's 100% guaranteed to be correct or your money back VC
Edition #4- back due to popular request

Platinum Phoenix (4) ~

PenguinPower, norwegianboyEE, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma

NaCl (2) ~

Vorkuta (#1141), tris (#1185)

RCEnigma (2) ~

Beta Sapphire, Hoptic (#1176)

benhalkum (1) ~

Unstuck in Time

norwegianboyEE (1) ~

NaCl

Not Voting (3) ~

Something_Smart, benhalkum, Platinum Phoenix

[Vorkuta]

Awwwww yeah

Anyway, norskee's phrasing of that phrase (wtf english) can be excused via "frustration" and "newbie card" so I'm fine with that.

[Vorkuta]

Feel though as if

It's funny because now you're going to get flack for trying to 'appease' people and avoiding suspicion by not voting

I can vote for people based upon being frustrated

Honestly? Do this.
Progress is progress, and it might mean something to someone.

[Vorkuta]

>Not being paranoid enough to believe that this could be completely manufactured and staged for our entertainment *smh*

Also I dislike that exchange (read- was shaking my head while scrolling down through it) but have no idea what to take away from it

[Vorkuta]

I'm just going to say this out loud to absolutely no hydra in particular: blaming shit on your other head, especially if it doesn't go down the way you want to, should be policy'd

[Vorkuta]

is this

trying

to be

@Plat
*looks at the deadline timer* Push for a counter wagon if you don't want to be lynched.

[Vorkuta]

I'm finding the way she replied (several times) to my shade and accusations completely earnest so she has that going for her.
Not enough to weasel her way into a town-lean, but yeah.

[Vorkuta]

Platinum Phoenix (4) ~ PenguinPower, norwegianboyEE, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma

VOTE: Platinum Phoenix

VOTE: Platinum Phoenix

6: L-1
Now back to 5

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Vorkuta

Huh?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Right

[Vorkuta]

Also, I do have reasons for voting Vorkuta, as should be obvious no matter my alignment,

I mechanically cannot give you fruit in this game, no matter how much I want to

and townclaim today

Bigger font = more townpoints?

Anyway- my 2 cents is that he'll activate in a day or so and I temporarily object to a vote on him upon a reread of his ISO.
I invoke S_S's reasoning and won't explain why for now.

Lynch preference

fake-PP (keeping this slot alive...) > NaCl (reasons ^) > ben & tris (2 very quiet slots that are difficult to read and engage with on occassion- Lylo liability IMHO) > & Norskee (I can see him being dishonest but part of me wants to stop bullying a newbie) >,,,, Don't touch my town reads

[Vorkuta]

@S_S- you've been in the exact games w/ me.
Is this a fair assessment?

Spoiler:

Right what else can I come up with.
I have a slight issue with RCE not really taking a "controlling" or active/solvey role in the game as I remember him doing in Jazz, but his behavior is kinda similar to Musicals/NK2058/EICN so I'll let him of the hook for today.

[Vorkuta]

Also is RCE the hail mary counterwagon for the scum team?
Perfectly timed to be close enough to the deadline to make people sweat, but not be a fullblown CFD?

Vork you've played enough games to know that scum let's this wagon reach deadline or L-1 whichever comes first. Faux PP claims and someone goes "shit let's get this guy instead." (Probably a lurker) then we come back day 2 with the shocked Pikachu look.

[Vorkuta]

vorkuta, your read is seriously so bad.

You're chenny right?

This is honestly the first time I've heard/seen such amazing word choice come out of your mouth, and it sure makes me think that you're panicking scum.
You can feel free to invoke "but I'm a power-town player now!!!! i dun lurk anymoar!!1!" but I'm going to stand by this.

And if you are wrong town- then fine.
I have reasons that I'm not willing to share for now.
You're approaching the slot in bad faith which is exactly how you've treated GE and PP ~30 pages ago.

[Vorkuta]

Says the person who's more interested in picking fights than actually solving

[Vorkuta]

as both alignments?

town- solving
scum- mislynching and getting away with it

like........

[Vorkuta]

I'm trying to decided which one of you I want to support in this """inevitable""" 1v1
I don't like fake-PP (as clearly evidenced by me prefacing his name with "fake" every single time), but you're not looking to good either.

[Vorkuta]

to

2 good

grammar

you want to be on the right side of a flip

for towncred

.

FTFY

Anyway- remember musicals D-1 and everything afterwards?
You manage to succeed in obv-towning yourself (tet in Jazz) or at the very least completely avoiding the crosshairs when you're actually town.
Now you're literally the counterwagon.

[Vorkuta]

also
>ben- driving literally anyone's wagon
>tris- the one that supported my NaCl vote for half a second? Vote-hoppy

I'm pretty sure you've done this to yourself with the early GE and PP drama and they've uh.... parked on you

[Vorkuta]

yeah dude, GE is totally voting me right now.

it's funny because I even did vote counts

mb

Point still stands IMHO- I also don't think GE has withdrawn their SR on you- just counterwagon experiments

[Vorkuta]

"Hey dude im not the worst on this wagon"

casual reminder that I've never voted fake-PP

to be so cocky

pot - kettle

read the game so indepth, but needs to try to get a more general overview

welcome to literally every game where someone falls behind for a few pages- ok I missed GE's last second unvote because it was burried/skimmed through some pages ago and like no-one has acknowledged it.
HOWEVER- the point still stands

[Vorkuta]

"who is scummier?"

If we're pulling "only a sith deals in absolutes"- tris.

-Activity
-"haha I'm like this in all my games" when pressed
-Dipped toe in water for NaCl wagon, then decided 'nah'
-you have a redeeming hydra head
-you and your interactions (regardless of alignment) will help later in the game

[Vorkuta]

pot - kettle

That doesn't even apply here

nah you feel like ur covering up.

yes- I misread/neglected/ignored/accidentally parsed over GE's unvote.
It still doesn't take away from the points I'm making- if it did, I'd've had a more solid impression of it

casual reminder that a wagon is not composed solely of its votes

Ok- remember the part where I said I can't town-read you properly because you take vendettas/grudges/interactions with players and instead of 'solving' in good faith, you escalate into ego-battles and shit-flinging?
That's exactly what you're doing right now, EVEN THOUGH you pretty much said that you'll stop 20 pages ago.

so your view of the game is also very off.

I think all the time in the spotlight has made you slightly deluded, but let's agree to disagree for now

[Vorkuta]

You're not trying to solve my slot or defend your alignment in this exchange.
You're shit posting (and I'm feeding the troll)

[Vorkuta]

oh my god if chennis says anything about HIS OWN SLOT it's invalid

You're not wrong- if you want any hope of being TR'd in good faith by me, let elly do more of the talking.

show not tell is also working better

You're showing how bat-shit crazy you're getting and how your judgement is impaired.
Maybe my word-choice/demeanor is triggering to you. Maybe this is the straw that's breaking the camel's back. Maybe this is scum's desperation AtE.
But you aren't demonstrating anything helpful or useable, and your credibility with me is all but used up.

"i've never voted you in technicality so im totally not part of this wagon."

"ge is technically not voting you but he's voting you in SPIRIT"

such false equivalency
I've been trying to push my own (non-mainstream) reads, with little success.
GE has completely committed to SRing you by page... 10 and has never indicated otherwise

[Vorkuta]

*sighs*
[big font tag] ANYONE DOWN TO VOTE NACL? [/huuuuuge] No? K

Figuring it out between {you/tris/RCE} is more pressing and relevant at this stage in the game.
The time to push brand new reads was probably a day or two ago, but unfortunately I was unavailable to completely drive something home.

Would you rather I obstruct the gamestate we have now and hypertunnel an unpopular/unlikely-to-go-through SR of mine?


Stop trying to get cheap points with one-liners to nourish your bruised-ego.

[Vorkuta]

engaging with you is so fun because all you do is shift the burden of proof around (something a few other players have already mentioned)

As somebody else rightfully pointed out NaCl triggers me, and I have no idea why I've been pursuing other agendas over this guy.
A reread of his ISO shows more emphasis on setup-spec than... anything else, and his #598 seems.... what's the term... I forgot the buzzword of the day to describe it.
Doesn't help that he's also on the low end of the activity count so tris's arguments from ^ apply here as well.
Lone-wolfing is a nice cherry on top that I dislike
Spoiler:

you're not figuring anything out - you're trying to look good.

>Implying I want/need to look any better than I already do
And you're apparently trying to look as unlikeable as possible.

Stop shitflinging. Please

[Vorkuta]

Spoiler:

quoting is hard

I would rather you actually develop your read to a non-zero extent.

Read my shit ffs

I'm honestly at a dilemma here. I want to disengage because dealing with you (while very entertaining) is unproductive.
But you won't be able to let it go will you?

[Vorkuta]

Maybe my word-choice/demeanor is triggering to you. Maybe this is the straw that's breaking the camel's back. Maybe this is scum's desperation AtE.

So we're exhausted our supply have we?

[Vorkuta]

Third time's charm

[Vorkuta]

Were your reads affected by how pissed you are?

Spoiler:

Sorry for pushing too far, I probably got carried away and channeled an IRL grievance or two

[Vorkuta]

Fack 10 minutes?
VOTE: tris

[Vorkuta]

L-.....1?

[Vorkuta]

he day will end in 0 days, 0 hours, 8 minutes

Convenient

[Vorkuta]

Woah.

VOTE: tris That a hammer?

-Hectic

Fack 10 minutes?
VOTE: tris

VOTE: tris.

Gross, 40 minutes from deadline and the most substance in the past day was a page and a half log pissing match between Plat Phoe and Vork. Fun.

My other head is basically fine with any of the three options. I don't want to vote Plat Phoe right now. I think when he's given content it's been decent. Please more content less measuring dick sizes.

I think RCE got slightly better over the past two days so at this point, Tris is sticking out as the best Lynch option. I'd still be down to Lynch Ben, but that clearly isn't going anywhere.

VOTE: Tris

BP

We can’t just focus on one guy, need alternatives to spur discussion.
VOTE: Tris

VOTE: tris
Thing is Plat has had minimal resistance this whole time. I don't think any real counterwagons have even been attempted until now.

Shit I think we missed it

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Vorkuta

Yeah norskie was off- papa smart decided to play around with ^
Tris is @L-1 now

#biasedmodding incoming

Can we get an extension please?

inb4 Angel claiming

[Vorkuta]

.........
UNVOTE:

More heart attacks are just what I need

[Vorkuta]

Does tris claim here...
Lemme think about this

[Vorkuta]

cool dudes like Hectic and

PenguinPower

FTFY

also which one am I

papa smart

answer my RCE inquisition directed specifically towards you k thnx

[Vorkuta]

So you kill momentum because deadline is still not here?

Or tried to prevent lol!hammers because I think claiming here is more optimal, and hammering people who are in V/LA feels like a dicky thing to do?
I wanted to take a step back and think for a bit.

Also wow- OG-PP getting 'run up' in the last 2 pages to set him up for D2 (or night action of sorts if any).
Convenient

[Vorkuta]

PP is a solid town read of mine so the following will come from that perspective, and I don't think I'm going to back down from it.

I think it's a huge possibility that you guys have waited this long to express your opinion on our local sushi-chef. I kind of think that it comes from people who are "happy" with this EoD and want to start of strong tomorrow with suspicions towards PP and I really don't like it.
It also has the benefit of being a "fresh" (the first thing someone will read) impression which feels dirty to me.

[Vorkuta]

tris (4) ~ Gamma Emerald, norwegianboyEE, Platinum Phoenix , Hoptic

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Tris


V/LA until Monday the 16th in case I can't get online this weekend.

I typed up that post then forgot to actually vote. My bad.

VOTE: Tris
BP

Meh, no point in waiting. VOTE: Tris

Momentum stopping my ass

[Vorkuta]

Either a Sorceress or Witch Hunter.

70-30 Full vig
I refuse to believe that we have a witch hunter who decided to use the one shot on a non-zombie confirmed target.
Plus the math is easier for me and I can stop trying to do the probabilities.

Priest (3) + Sorc (3) => Zombie (2) + Witch (1)

I'm too lazy to completely ISO BS to determine the circumstances of their death (ben's ISO is shorter ), but idk whether a low-info no-association NK > prime lynchbait, or policy/optimal/recommended vig play.

Likewise was BS onto the scum team, was NK'd for the WIFOM of being on to the scum team, or did they just... 'piss off' the vig inadvertantly?

[Vorkuta]

So- height of fake-PP's wagon:
Platinum Phoenix (6) ~ PenguinPower, norwegianboyEE, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma, UiT, Ben (#1265)

At this point, tris has no votes whatsoever.
Then it goes like

Spoiler:

tris(1) -> +S_S #1250
fPP(5) -RCE #1264
fPP(4) -UiT #1292,
fPP(5) +tris #1315,
fPP(6) +RCE #1329 ,
fPP(5), tris (2) +GE#1330,
tris (1) -S_S #1333
tris (2) +norskie #1350
tris (3) +fPP #1461
tris (4) +UiT #1474
tris (5) +vork
tris (6) +hop
tris (5) -vork
tris (4) -UiT
tris (5) +ben
tris (6) +UiT
tris (7) +NaCL

UiT's voting pattern (late on both wagons, jumped off when worried that something wasn't going to go through, jumped straight back on when the wagon "revived" again is that of scum wanting to mislynch either of the 2 townies available) is.... erm.... yeah
VOTE: UiT

[Vorkuta]

Fuck his (their) D2 opening is also telling

wow I forgot the flip.

this and the stuff before it feels really fake no?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

if you're town, why the hell are you openly WIFOMing?

I think this is an early attempt to take initiative to drive a wagon against norskie and throw shade

This guy deserves a reread

[Vorkuta]

I hate how UiT is telling my that my 'voting pattern' case on him is a good case....
UNVOTE:

dammit I thought I was onto something.
Ah well, I'll take another townlean

norskie seems to be doing a decent/genuine job of spearheading D2- nice to see him getting into his groove. I approve

I don't know how I feel about fake-PP and whatever the "progression" argument about him is, but I initially went trying to analyze the voting from EoD1 under the impression that he was scum and was saved only due to a last minute CFD on to tris, but I don't think that gave me anything nice

The rest of my town-block has yet to show itself and idk where they went

[Vorkuta]

Volume 3, day 2 edition


{PP, GE, S_S}
{UiT, NorskEE}
{fake-PP}
{NaCl}
{RCE, Hop, BS}

Top tier stays.
PP being V/LA and not solving/helping/arguing/

shitposting

almost made me forget my impression of him, but not enough to demote him down to a town lean
S_S's impulsive vote on NaCl during day-start is meh and not something I'm used to but yeah

UiT went down, then UiT went back up as explained just in ^.
I don't think scum!UiT successfully goes "huh, that's a legit case" so I'm at a loss

fake-PP gets a purely null tier as I legit have just as many arguments for him being town as for scum and it literally depends on which side of the bed I wake up on

NaCl's been scummy/political/ugly sure, but tbh I think the lol!hammer didn't come from desperate scum, but from... bored/disengaged/uninspired/"fuck-it-let's-go-to-D2-already" town. At least that's my experience with most lol!hammers.
He also pointed out that tris outloud said "bye, won't be back until deadline" so.... idk

Hop's heads are hard. That's pretty much it.
I won't accuse them of hiding behind their trolling/memeing/sarcasm because they're done well in terms of reads and justification, but my gut does not agree with the duo.

[Vorkuta]

{BS, Ben}

Copypasting from ^ is hard
Also counting is hard
Also lack of explanation for BS scum read is self explanatory

[Vorkuta]

The rest of my town-block has yet to show itself and idk where they went

Gotta say- you being beetle-juiced in here and not having anything else for us kind of concerns/pings me

[Vorkuta]

idk you've obv!towned yourself to me... maybe do that to a few other people?
meh I think you're universally town!read so that's alright

Uh.. solve game? Provide pressure with votes?
You usually activate sometime D2~D3, so can we move up that timeline please?

[Vorkuta]

I'll start- thoughts on UiT v fPP?

[Vorkuta]

@norskie

I'll take that under advisement and get back to you in a bit
Would exactly the same logic apply to PP as well?

[Vorkuta]

Catching up here tomorrow...not a fan of how fake!PP's wagon dissapated on first glance though.

At this point, tris has no votes whatsoever.
Then it goes like

Spoiler:

tris(1) -> +S_S #1250
fPP(5) -RCE #1264
fPP(4) -UiT #1292,
fPP(5) +tris #1315,
fPP(6) +RCE #1329 ,
fPP(5), tris (2) +GE#1330,
tris (1) -S_S #1333
tris (2) +norskie #1350
tris (3) +fPP #1461
tris (4) +UiT #1474
tris (5) +vork
tris (6) +hop
tris (5) -vork
tris (4) -UiT
tris (5) +ben
tris (6) +UiT
tris (7) +NaCL

Here's how- I got bored closer to the end as you can tell
I'm quite used to the entire scum team getting and staying on a wagon early, but idk this time around

[Vorkuta]

*pokes this game with a stick*

[Vorkuta]

I'm graciously allowing other people to chip in in order to help me read them

[Vorkuta]

handy chart

High effort, 10/10, why is my color so close to fakePP

Town!Vorkuta would put more stuck in my reads

Oh you have reads this game?

/s

And no- I'm not shading you.
You're just so completely passive and don't leave a strong and.... commanding impression that I'm used to from town!RCE (brought up 50 times and idk about what S_S has said about it), so your reads just don't.... register for me to shade them.

But fine- I'll play. Kindly point out where I've allegedly slighted you.

[Vorkuta]

Mostly because he seems to be parking his vote in weird places without putting actual pressure, although he doesn't seem to be actively pursuing an agenda

That's typical of town!S_S play though, and while unfortunately I can only back that up with meta, I think that lynching him today would be a poor town play just because of the hypothetical utility/solving-power he would bring come D3.
Like when the guy activates.... he activates.

Again- I'd rather he activate sooner rather than later so yours and norskie's 'attacks' on him don't completely ruin my townread of the slot, but idk- the guy needs time to warm up I suppose

Also, plan on answering 1596?

I thought I slightly answered it by reconsidering the slot, but AT THE TIME my reread of the events around EoD1 had me believe that he was scum!UiT desperate to push through literally any (mis)lynch just as long as it was a mislynch and he had 2/3 prime "lynch-bait" targets (ben, fPP, tris) to do that with.

Why is it more likely for scum to be late on both wagons as opposed to being early on Fake-PP?

S_S already "indirectly" replied to this.
It turns out the I've been playing a... 'disproportionate' amount of games where typical/traditional wagon composition isn't followed.

The way I see it, at least 1 scum was probably early on the wagon to have it be rushed up so quickly and then stalling out for a bit.

I very nicely and conveniently digested the wagon order and progression.

I'm just waiting for more people to seriously comment on what happened @EoD1.
-Was fPP scum and had a successful last minute redirect onto tris with his scum buddies? Was fPP even "bused"?
-Were like 2/3 scum on the town!fPP wagon and 1 of them moved to the tris wagon?
-Was the town!fPP wagon INITIATED by scum, (first ~2/3 people), or did they come later?
-Why wasn't fPP hammered baaaack in whenever? scum didn't want to bus? scum wanted a townie to hammer? scum was already entirely on the wagon?
Questions questions

[Vorkuta]

@hoptic

While trying to get my chronology straight, I stumbled upon this gem

I'm kind of half-dead right now, but can we please lynch PenguinPower already? No idea why that wagon never formed honestly.

Like he's been very towny all game... almost

too

towny.
Has anyone else noticed how there haven't been many reasons to suspect him this game?
Well, I have, and this makes me very suspicious that he's a mafia who's just decided to do towny things this game to make everyone think he's town.
But actually he's mafia.

I think he's fooled most people in this game, but I see right through him like a rolecop on a doctor.

Anyone else up for this?

-Hectic

That you're not following up on.
The fact that you corrected norskie's list and omitted the ^ read is slightly suspicious and demonstrates that you.... dropped the ^ concerns.

Like I'll just come out and say it- this feels like you're throwing shade to see what sticks and if you have a shot and "mis"lynching OG-PP. I don't like my townblock being attacked like this so.....

[Vorkuta]

Everyone should continue expressing their preffered lynch btw, this will be useful post flip.

Also so Hoptic can mock you. That's an important thing for him to do apparently.

What do you mean, my good fellow Haunted Village mafiascum game player, PenguinPower?

-Hectic

Oh, the half-dead thing? Am being honest, am actually half-dead, it's way too late right now.

-Hectic

The first time I read it, I got the impression that Hoptic was apologizing for the ^ """humor""", but 1524 still held. At the very least I couldn't find any humor to apologize for in 1524

[Vorkuta]

Don't buy that you really think that's a post coming from someone trying to lynch Penguin.

Exactly.

However- does it come from someone who's town/scum!hunting? or someone who wants to shade penguin?
I think the latter.

Regarding the signing- again: you seem like a duo that discussed shit so you were collectively on board with the penguin-shade.
I suppose I'll wait until he pops in to see what gives.

[Vorkuta]

Shading my Menalque scumread when I pointed out it was only that half, but I had expressed that view from menals first few posts. The way you framed it made it seem like a groupthink read.

I've hated the m head of the hydra since like... her first post here. Where did I shade that read of yours?

The whole thing about the jazz comparison ofhrz was asking about which I feel was a miscommunication on your part or that you aren't putting my posts into context and skewing them intentionally more similar to EICN.

That was great, but I don't get the... "point" of what that entire anecdote/story was all about. As I've TL;DR'd already:

TL;DR, I don't buy this analysis, I don't understand what its trying to convey, and I don't understand how that translates to potential concrete reads/tactics in this game.

generalizing and throwing out vague adjectives to push your narrative

I disagree.
My dislike of you is driven by the fact that I think your town!game is more assertive, straightforward, and has "effort" in it.
You were decent in Jazz, EICN, and Musicals and had absolutely no problem gathering your "clout" regardless of hard you were pressed.
In this game, it feels like you've completely failed to get any, and that's not due to me at all.
So either you're having a bad day (week?) or something, or this isn't your towngame.

I make concrete points. None of that 'vague adjectives' bs so stop misrepping my arguments.

[Vorkuta]

a concussion

all the best- head injuries are horrible!

I really don't want to be that guy but.......

Spoiler:

If you will have an excessively long V/LA or will not have regular access to the internet/forums, please request replacement instead.

[Vorkuta]

Are we all collectively fine with the lynchpool being like.... 4 players?

[Vorkuta]

4 players?

Could've sworn there was something resembling a wagon on RCE as well but yeah

[Vorkuta]

Could this be a scum slip?

Eh- S_S is probably too good a player to just slip like that.
Town points for trying/hunting though

Town seems quite dysfunctional right now

Rip Activity- everyone's probably out.
I'm honestly still just waiting for penguin to obv!town himself on D2 so I can move on from that slot.

Tbh I think the way to go is wagon analysis so let's VOTE: Salt and see if that leads us anywhere useful