Micro 890: CultD3 [Game Over; Korina Rules The World]

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #8 (isolation #0) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:55 am

Post by Light and L »

Ez clap
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Post Post #15 (isolation #1) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:14 pm

Post by Light and L »

cultsided by 80%
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Post Post #69 (isolation #2) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:02 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 33, Pine wrote:
In post 32, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Light and L can you guys set up an avi?
done
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Post Post #70 (isolation #3) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:02 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 33, Pine wrote:
In post 32, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Light and L can you guys set up an avi?
done
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Post Post #71 (isolation #4) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:03 pm

Post by Light and L »

this is unproductive

this won't help you get any reads

and scum is going to hide in your noise
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Post Post #72 (isolation #5) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:03 pm

Post by Light and L »

so, stop?
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Post Post #74 (isolation #6) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:08 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 73, chennisden wrote:
In post 59, chkflip wrote:VOTE: Elsa Jay

Not RVS.
this is also a really easy and really anti-town post for you to make
This is my very helpful friend offering me some very helpful in-game advice on Page 3.

(this is a hydra slip)
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Post Post #76 (isolation #7) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:15 pm

Post by Light and L »

Sup coldhearted.
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Post Post #77 (isolation #8) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:16 pm

Post by Light and L »

I'm annoyed at the Chemist wagon right now and it's not because I don't scumread him.
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Post Post #78 (isolation #9) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:17 pm

Post by Light and L »

Good job guys, we're making the game miserable for someone by p1
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Post Post #82 (isolation #10) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:30 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 81, chennisden wrote:i think independently, chemist's posts are pretty scummy

but this is ignoring the fact that people've went out of their way to be like "sup im going to POLICY VOTE you" which probably wouldn't make anyone happy?
wow

- chennis
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Post Post #83 (isolation #11) » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:32 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 24, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In post 22, Chemist1422 wrote:
In post 21, EspressoPatronum wrote:Oh, and VOTE: Chemist
why am I the default early wagon
Because you lurked really hard the last time I played with you. I found it rather frustrating + would like to either:
1. Force you to be more active to stop the lynch on you, or
2. Lynch you if you lurk again.
In post 26, Chemist1422 wrote:
In post 24, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In post 22, Chemist1422 wrote:
In post 21, EspressoPatronum wrote:Oh, and VOTE: Chemist
why am I the default early wagon
Because you lurked really hard the last time I played with you. I found it rather frustrating + would like to either:
1. Force you to be more active to stop the lynch on you, or
2. Lynch you if you lurk again.
And an early wagon on me for no reason other than policy is supposed to help my motivation how?
In post 27, Elsa Jay wrote:Well you DID also try and replace out of Fire's game earlier? Was it cuz they were rude or something?
these posts were really goady.

by "i don't like," i'm not talking about the usual way people use "i don't like" - as in "your viewpoint sucks" or "you're scum." i mean "if you treated my slot this way i would flip out."
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Post Post #107 (isolation #12) » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:35 am

Post by Light and L »

elsa, why isn't your claim something scum could make?
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Post Post #108 (isolation #13) » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:35 am

Post by Light and L »

- chen
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Post Post #109 (isolation #14) » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:36 am

Post by Light and L »

In post 16, Chemist1422 wrote:VOTE: Korina

claimed cultist already
In post 18, Chemist1422 wrote:
In post 17, Pine wrote:VOTE: Chemist

Woo! Left RVS on page one!
Not again...
this in a vacuum is scummy, gameplay
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Post Post #157 (isolation #15) » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:04 pm

Post by Light and L »

bad direction to lead town towards, chemist.
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Post Post #160 (isolation #16) » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:07 pm

Post by Light and L »

it's a very unreliable way to try to kill cult.
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Post Post #161 (isolation #17) » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:08 pm

Post by Light and L »

trying to kill cult leader also ironically takes focus away from scumhunting,
the one day we can reliably do it without justified paranoia,
and focuses on "who seems like cult LEADER" rather than "who is scum," which is pointless and bad.
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Post Post #171 (isolation #18) » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:07 pm

Post by Light and L »

hi tmi, my name is chennis
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Post Post #185 (isolation #19) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:48 am

Post by Light and L »

you don't find scum by
forcing
stances out of them when they don't have any.
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Post Post #188 (isolation #20) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:52 am

Post by Light and L »

In post 187, chennisden wrote:people are already bad enough at distinguishing "im meh on this" and "these are my few, confident, CORRECT" reads. they can't distinguish it for themselves or from other people.

forcing people to get reads out gives them shitty reads and makes the whole situation worse.
sorry korina
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Post Post #189 (isolation #21) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:52 am

Post by Light and L »

espresso, if i had to characterize your play, you're either saying blatantly obvious or subtly pro-scum things.
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Post Post #190 (isolation #22) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:53 am

Post by Light and L »

and you're also really appeasy, as seem by

- chennis.
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Post Post #194 (isolation #23) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:38 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 193, chennisden wrote:
you
posted "i'll let you lead town because you have a lot of posts,"
NOT
me.
sigh.
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Post Post #195 (isolation #24) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:38 pm

Post by Light and L »

that's it, i'm changing the color scheme on this account
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Post Post #196 (isolation #25) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:41 pm

Post by Light and L »

anyway,

that's not a misrep. i don't think what you did earlier was even scum-indicative, just bad. i'm not liking your response to me though.
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Post Post #198 (isolation #26) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:55 pm

Post by Light and L »

i don't like the direction he's trying to push the gamestate.

as soon as i say that, he goes "YOU'RE misrepping ME"
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Post Post #223 (isolation #27) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:12 pm

Post by Light and L »

espresso, the way you give out your reads, pretty much nobody has any idea which ones of them are actually worth listening to and which ones are absolute shit.
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Post Post #224 (isolation #28) » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:13 pm

Post by Light and L »

also, if you're town, i don't think you know which reads are worth shit.

- chennis
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Post Post #245 (isolation #29) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:45 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 232, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In post 219, EspressoPatronum wrote:
Spoiler:
@Drew - recall the parameters I requested of you: No null reads, sort everyone.

Town
Chemist - I was initially wary about potential lurkiness, but he's really stepped up to my request. I find myself agreeing with most of his reads. He's proactively giving information instead of reactively waiting to be prodded.

Elsa Jay - I don't like that he revealed as UT, but he has a respectable stance as to why he did it + it seemed town motivated. He has also been very active.

Townlean
Gameplay - on memory alone, none of gameplay's posts stand out. I recall gameplay helping us out Elsa though, so that's worthwhile and shows town initiative to solve.

Chkflip - probably my weakest townread. Chk seems to be involved in discussion and questions though, so I'm happy with a weak townlean for now.

Scumlean
Ceejayvinoya - nothing really standout from ceejay. Not a lot of activity due to the late start. I recall ceejay's entrance being kinda meh, but I can't remember any of the posts off the top of my head.

Light and L - haven't seen much from Gamma, but I'm not liking chenn's content. Chenn started coming after me once I voted Drew. He was also twisting my words into conclusions that I did not make.

Pine - Pine has been a bit lurky this game. He did the same thing in Ruby Mafia. He did give us warning that he was busy with work in that game, but I don't think it detracts from his willingness to lurk as scum.

Scum
Doctor Drew - before I started prodding him, all of his posts looked like attempts to blend in. After prodding him, he's been extremely reluctant to provide reads, citing his reactive playstyle as the reason.
@Chenn

EP
Chemist
Elsa
Gameplay
Chk

Ceejay
LightL
Drew

Put simply, the list means this: I will lynch anyone at the bottom and nobody at the top.

I'm not pretending my reads are perfect. This is my perspective on the gamestate as it is rn + am happy to work with people to lynch my scum pool and solidify my town pool. If you're town, you should be willing to do the same.
i'm not saying "what does your list mean" - i know how a list works.

i'm saying that a list obfuscates the
accuracy of your reads to everyone,
including yourself if you're town.
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Post Post #246 (isolation #30) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:56 pm

Post by Light and L »

your lynchpool consists of people who're telling you you're playing anti-town and your townreads on people are because they're entertaining your bullshit, espresso.

i dunno if it's because of the bastard element of this game or the fact that this setup is just for the lulz. but you're really fucking adamant about YOUR way of doing things and the type of content YOU want to see from people and you have a disgusting lynchpool that looks lazy, half-hearted, and scum motivated.

if you're town please take a step back, realize that though you may have good intentions you're leading town down a really bad path, and start playing with the nuance and good-will that i've seen in your other games.
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Post Post #249 (isolation #31) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:46 pm

Post by Light and L »

mafia is a game of dominoes. solve a few crucial slots, look at how they've approached other slots (and how other slots have approached them) and you've got a good portion of a gamesolve.

stressing on cult leader, shallow reads, forcing interactions, etc etc is distracting. we have one day to play this game of dominoes before the inherent mechanics of cults makes all our progress worthless. wasting your time on a lynchpool,
or even finding someone to vote,
does not help.

topple the dominoes.
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Post Post #250 (isolation #32) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:48 pm

Post by Light and L »

i would say elsa and EP, and maybe chemist, are the dominoes. if you're a domino your job is to be cooperative and make it easy for you to be townbinned, and play with the goal of figuring out how scum is trying to manipulate the topping of the dominoes (aka - how they're trying to manipulate your interactions.)
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Post Post #251 (isolation #33) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:49 pm

Post by Light and L »

you can be right on almost every other slot, but if you can't topple the domino, it'll be hard to know if you're right. the rest of town won't care about your reads because they lack depth.
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Post Post #255 (isolation #34) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:56 pm

Post by Light and L »

dominoes aren't even
about
lynching.
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Post Post #256 (isolation #35) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:56 pm

Post by Light and L »

they're not about establishing a towncore.

they're not about establishing a lynchcore.

they're about finding the slots that will solve the rest of the game for you ez mode when you solve those slots.
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Post Post #257 (isolation #36) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:58 pm

Post by Light and L »

take viewtopic.php?f=51&t=80198 (grey flag nightless) into comparison.

the dominoes were NerfedBuJ and geometry (a chennisden alt). i obvtowned (so i knocked down that domino), and RC pointed out buj was obviously defending partner before he died. looking at bitmap was all you needed to ez mode the game.

so no, it's not a "vague analogy".
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Post Post #258 (isolation #37) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:00 pm

Post by Light and L »

it's also about
reliably
solving the dominoes.

giving a read on every player without differentiating between your reliable and unreliable ones is worthless. and strong is not a substitute for reliable.

even a really good player will have worthless reads on around 30-40% of the playerlist, if they even bother focusing on those slots. they can determine which slots they can sort reliably and which ones will ez mode the game for them.
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Post Post #260 (isolation #38) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:03 pm

Post by Light and L »

fair.

i like that you're reconsidering your approach.
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Post Post #263 (isolation #39) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:10 pm

Post by Light and L »

it's true lynchpools can be helpful later in the day - but making lynchpools/townblocks and calling it a day is really not going to help because scum know how to get in a townblock. it's not that hard - you just post and be a little funny.

on the other hand, planning around dominoes is NOT something scum usually does.
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Post Post #264 (isolation #40) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:11 pm

Post by Light and L »

i think signalling who you're willing to vote is
okay
later in d-1 but this early, trying to surface read everyone is useless.
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Post Post #266 (isolation #41) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:32 pm

Post by Light and L »

I like ceejay and chk and im not happy with chemist.
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Post Post #269 (isolation #42) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:18 pm

Post by Light and L »

. . .
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Post Post #270 (isolation #43) » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:18 pm

Post by Light and L »

that's how we're supposed to play d2, but ok
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Post Post #273 (isolation #44) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:23 am

Post by Light and L »

Not following too well but why are we townhunting in a cult game
-I think I'm the Light head, this is Gamma
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Post Post #280 (isolation #45) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:57 am

Post by Light and L »

In post 279, chkflip wrote:161 - Pushing discussion to go the way of "find scum" over "find the cult leader" (which I've already outlined is bad)
I read that myself and your synopsis is rather simplistic, but honestly I get the sense this is a shitpush already which has me really up in arms rn.
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Post Post #281 (isolation #46) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:59 am

Post by Light and L »

Fyi I'll try to be as active as I can because me being inactive in a hydra from past experience has been awful for me as any alignment.
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Post Post #282 (isolation #47) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:59 am

Post by Light and L »

Both the above -Light
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Post Post #292 (isolation #48) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:00 pm

Post by Light and L »

i mean - you really don't need to have a flip to make use of associatives. i think that's objectively right.

- L
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Post Post #293 (isolation #49) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:01 pm

Post by Light and L »

i've been on record 1000 fucking times saying why town needs to CARE ABOUT BEING TOWNY.

i'm fucking amazed that you think our slot being good makes us scum.
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Post Post #294 (isolation #50) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:02 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 284, EspressoPatronum wrote:I like the case, Chk!

VOTE: Light and L
you had me as a scumread in your list, so no, you didn't actually fucking read the case.
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Post Post #295 (isolation #51) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:08 pm

Post by Light and L »

also, you really think the best way for me to take control of town is to give you the domino theory? instead of also faking reads on the dominoes? here's a hint: they're dominoes because they've got so much information as slots. it'd literally be so easy to to straight-up in-your-face push my agenda and have people call me towny for my efforts, especially in this playerlist.
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Post Post #299 (isolation #52) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:42 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 296, chkflip wrote:Which is literally how gamma reacted as well.
I did none of the above, fuck off.
-Light
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Post Post #301 (isolation #53) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:39 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 283, chkflip wrote:Like, I get it. You're still trying to seem cool and casual but you need to respond with a sense of "give a fuck," yeah?
Also, okay, I'm trying to get into this game and also trying to have fun? Like what the hell is your problem with what you described.
-Light
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Post Post #302 (isolation #54) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:40 pm

Post by Light and L »

I don't see where you listed your points against us btw
-Light
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Post Post #303 (isolation #55) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:45 pm

Post by Light and L »

  • I don't recall ever talking about "if I was scum" or my scum meta
  • Don't recall talking about Patronum's vote
  • Don't believe I've said anything that can be construed as acting better than you.
Saying I'm doing "the same things Chennis is doing" just isn't true. If you want to push something else we'll see but don't push that stupid line again.
-Light
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Post Post #305 (isolation #56) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:25 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 278, chkflip wrote:Okay, so...

Mainstream Mafia was six years ago. It consisted of a team of five mafia, a serial killer, and a cult leader as scum. You're more than welcome to see if you can find the pattern for yourself. When in a massive game with alignments that'll kill you twice over (meaning you could die by either a night kill or by attempting to cult them) it's a little different. The cult leader there was IFM, who was eventually replaced by Thor665.

I feel that's a bit different than what we're playing here; however, I just wanted to show it as a base model for where my head is. You play a different game as cult when you've got
threats
like that. THIS GAME IS NOT THAT GAME. The cult here have no opposition save a couple (at random) power roles that'll probably make shots in the dark because they don't know wtf they're doing. This game is cult-sided. Period. Point blank. So we, as town, absolutely fucking need to lynch the cult leader by end of D2. What does that mean, chkflip? To me, that means three things:

1. We look for scum as usual. The flavor of the scum is inconsequential to a certain degree. Mafia, wolf, alien, fucking hermaphrodite, whatever. Unfortunately, though, we have no NKA. Even VCA won't lead us to the right path fast enough. So our scum-hunting skill has to be pushed. We have to accelerate our process to help attain this goal. This lurky bullshit is just a lazy town waiting to get culted so they can auto-win after the other lazy town don't fucking do anything about it. It's gross. Play to your Goddamn win condition.

2. We
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES
claim a Goddamn thing unless a hammer is provoked. We DO NOT NEED TO KNOW who the other unrecruitable is. We NEED cult to go aiming blindly in the dark in hopes that they hit the 1 out of 6 of us that is unrecruitable. (I'm aware I'm parroting this, but this is where my brain's at rn kthx)

3. We needn't rely on the average scum tells that lead us to lynching average mafia. This isn't mafia, like, almost at all. It's town vs cult, a faction that grows against us instead of dwindling us down. We have exactly 3 mislynches (on ANYONE but the leader) before we're completely fucked. Even if we keep them down to 2 cult ALL GAME, that's 5 mislynches (on ANYONE but the leader) which is better but not great without any sort of night action to assist us. So, like point one, this game is up to us and how we deal with the fact that we have to lynch correctly now more than ever. The only cult member flip we get that'll give us solid associatives is TODAY; any other scum member flip is completely worthless to us because we have no idea when they were culted or if they started as cult. It's all 100% WIFOM. Period.

Now, why Light and L? I thought you'd never ask.
meta is trash
In post 279, chkflip wrote:Mainstream Micro I - Cult Leader: JacobSavage
Mainstream Micro III - Cult Leader: TheIrishPope
Mainstream Micro IV - Cult Leader: Wisdom

The 2nd micro isn't linked correctly in my wiki or I'd have that one up as well.

The general synopsis of cult in micros is to look TOWN AS FUCK so that they don't get lynched. Now,
my micros
are only different in the sense that cult leader starts 100% alone and doesn't speak among its members (because there's no cap to real cult [sorry not sorry mod] so daytalk would potentially make them too powerful a force). Eliminating that, though, and you have a very small sample of what your average player does when given the role to simply grow and survive.

What is Light and L doing?
- Offering advice in regards to my silly push on Elsa Jay and the grandstanding EJ did with DD.
- Pushing discussion to go the way of "find scum" over "find the cult leader" (which I've already outlined is bad)
all six or seven posts defending the chemist wagon - it's easy af to just come in and white knight the policy lynch to look town
the domino theory - it places them at the lead of town and allows them to take charge and "sort" their three dominoes while leading town wherever they want

This is all well-orchestrated attempts at looking AS TOWN AS POSSIBLE while setting themselves up to lead us down the path.

Not only no, but FUCK no.

Lynch Light and L. They're the cult leader.
this isn't even a fucking case

why chk? i thought you'd never ask

he puts words in our mouth - and when he calls us out for it he flails instead of manning up

so he's caught scum

(this case was about as convincing and meaningful as yours - i just skipped the surface bullshit to get to the core of the bullshit)
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Post Post #306 (isolation #57) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:36 pm

Post by Light and L »

In post 279, chkflip wrote:Mainstream Micro I - Cult Leader: JacobSavage
Mainstream Micro III - Cult Leader: TheIrishPope
Mainstream Micro IV - Cult Leader: Wisdom

The 2nd micro isn't linked correctly in my wiki or I'd have that one up as well.

The general synopsis of cult in micros is to look TOWN AS FUCK so that they don't get lynched. Now,
my micros
are only different in the sense that cult leader starts 100% alone and doesn't speak among its members (because there's no cap to real cult [sorry not sorry mod] so daytalk would potentially make them too powerful a force). Eliminating that, though, and you have a very small sample of what your average player does when given the role to simply grow and survive.

What is Light and L doing?
- Offering advice in regards to my silly push on Elsa Jay and the grandstanding EJ did with DD.
- Pushing discussion to go the way of "find scum" over "find the cult leader" (which I've already outlined is bad)
all six or seven posts defending the chemist wagon - it's easy af to just come in and white knight the policy lynch to look town
the domino theory - it places them at the lead of town and allows them to take charge and "sort" their three dominoes while leading town wherever they want

This is all well-orchestrated attempts at looking AS TOWN AS POSSIBLE while setting themselves up to lead us down the path.

Not only no, but FUCK no.

Lynch Light and L. They're the cult leader.
71 - letting you lead the town with that bullshit is a good way to lose, as evidenced here
161 - we're going to be spending this day looking at associations so it doesn't go to waste if we lynch the member, since associations aren't tainted at d1 yet.
chemist wagon - wow, preventing shitty wagons is towny, who knew. so as town i'd let it happen and not do anything about it. 10/10
domino theory - no? if you actually fucking solve those slots, every alignment including mine becomes really easy,
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Post Post #307 (isolation #58) » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:40 pm

Post by Light and L »

also "well-orchestrated"? the reason my posts seem so "towny" to you is because they're on the spur. my style is stream of consciousness and that's something really hard to fake.
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Post Post #348 (isolation #59) » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:40 am

Post by Light and L »

Hi sorry I was busy
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