Mini 2090 CYS: AtmosFEAR of Terrors
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> working on towngameIn post 45, Pine wrote:I’ve been working on my Towngame. The rand isn’t hard to beat if you’re *trying* for Town.
Vote, coward- Plum
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"Good job, voting >>> not voting. Also haha, yes I notice you voted me most proximaly to me telling you to vote."In post 68, TemporalLich wrote:
it's literally just "gj" in response to a vote on herIn post 67, Alisae wrote:okay, why do you think its weird
On one hand, 49 makes that post make more sense... on the other hand, I'm confused about thinking about 56- Plum
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This you consider "setup spec"?In post 70, Pine wrote:I didn’t like Plum’s reaction to implosion’s setup spec- Plum
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1. Are you seriously saying that in a 13 player game with limited opportunities toIn post 75, Not Known 15 wrote:
We can only lynch every 12 days. Which means we have a maximum of 4 votes. We need to be very careful with voting here.In post 72, Plum wrote:"Good job, voting >>> not voting. Also haha, yes I notice you voted me most proximaly to me telling you to vote."lynchit is appropriate to be extremely cautious with and even limit our earlyvoting??
2. We don't even actually win by lynching anyway, though yes, it's a resource. If we were to use five lynches and have five corresponding Nightkills we wouldn't even have 6 players alive to enter the Well of Fears so ???? I don't know what would happen then. Right now I'd guess that we may have fewer than five or even four lynches feasible. And if the Townhunting and key distribution goes well, lynches become less valuable resources.
3. This is your initial contribution to the game??- Plum
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In post 83, Pine wrote:Dude, you're acting like I showed up with a fake nose and mustache, danced a jig, and sang, "Nothing to see here, folks!"
I was effectivelyasked.
The scum PT clearly said to each other in N0, "Hey guys, Pine ML first?" "Yeah, easy mode."
Not saying that everyone jumping on me is scum, clearly not...but there's definitely a low-hanging fruit motive to this push.
You think there was a "low-hanging fruit motive" to your wagon but as for who on your wagon to that point (I didn't vote you until after you made that statement) was scum, all you can offer is a list of everyone voting you and a shrug. Okay.In post 87, Pine wrote:Alisae
skygazer
GreyICE
Katsuki
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No clue so far, it's too early to have a real readslist. But now that you self-consciously mention it, your vote IS hella scummy, and saying "no points" doesn't make it not opportunistic AF.- Plum
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... it wasn't clear that I was already strongly suspecting Pine? I'll be real: he's very scummy, was before Katsuki got here, continued to be after Katsuki got here, and I don't see a reason to play coy by keeping my vote on another suspect and having my suspects be at 4 votes and 2 votes respectively when I could pressure him as 5th vote on his wagon. Big early wagon generally is an exploitable Town resource.
Notknown and Implo are still issues. I haven't forgotten about them or anything.- Plum
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Not going to read too much into it right now. Everyone has a special ability that they can use only when they hold the key of a certain color. I'm sure Katsuki's purple key ability is nice and useful for them as whatever alignment they are. I don't have a tone/read off of whether Katsuki would lead with that the way they did as Town vs. scum (vs. third-party).- Plum
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Okay, let's be real here. We don't get a flip on the lynch. Townhunting is very very valuable in this setup. Anyone who's claiming to have trouble scumhunting, at least try to complement your efforts with Townhunting.
TL thinks Pine is scummy, thinks the Black Key stuff could be a Townslip, disbelieves one of his posts because, quote, "it has a bad limerick". I don't even. Why. Why this game. And yes, if I have to spell it out for you, I do read TL as pretty scummy.
Skygazer, MariaR need to get in here and post more so I can read you guys more pls.
Hebi-chan, the first time you had the Black Key you didnotreceive it via the post-bracketing method.
GreyICE's reads are good, no surprise.
Pine stated with some conviction that scum were driving his early wagon - before I voted him. I've asked him who among the four players voting him at that time seemed like the scum reaching for the "low-hanging fruit" he portrayed himself as. He not only had no idea, he has shown zero interest in probing their motivations or otherwise further developing reads on them. I'm skeptical that he lacks the means and material for scumhunting given that. That's what I got, that's where it stands, I won't harp any more unless someone somehow needs further clarification. This is not intended to reengage Pine when he needs a break to forestall frustration, just clarifying from me that the "lack of scumhunting" accusation here holds weight for me given the circumstances and Pine's own statements.In post 223, kuribo wrote:It's bizarre as hell that Pine gets called out for zero scum hunting in a game that's basically been "Pine is scum, here's some pictures, send me a key, don't ask what keys everyone needs, oh shit there's a black key"
NotKnown15 needs to start posting now~ also Implo thx- Plum
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... so what do you make of GreyICE faking this?In post 246, Pine wrote:Oh and D) It doesn’t make sense from a setup perspective to have all of these events, curses, and added shenanigans, but also have one player hobbled the whole game. You’d just use the limerick PR as an event/curse etc- Plum
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In post 267, Gamma Emerald wrote:
It's incredibly clear what Pine makes of it?In post 248, Plum wrote:
... so what do you make of GreyICE faking this?In post 246, Pine wrote:Oh and D) It doesn’t make sense from a setup perspective to have all of these events, curses, and added shenanigans, but also have one player hobbled the whole game. You’d just use the limerick PR as an event/curse etc
VOTE: Plum
So yeah, actually no I didn't know what side of scummy vs. NAI Pine was going to come down on. And I didn't want to just let it hang so he could teehee at his leisure.In post 271, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I thought you thought it was scummy?In post 251, Pine wrote:
I think...I dunno. It's probably NAI? Gimmick-y gameplay happens as any alignment. When Aeronaut and I made Caesar Wills It before Civ mafia, we decided to do it before roles and alignments were randed.In post 248, Plum wrote:
... so what do you make of GreyICE faking this?In post 246, Pine wrote:Oh and D) It doesn’t make sense from a setup perspective to have all of these events, curses, and added shenanigans, but also have one player hobbled the whole game. You’d just use the limerick PR as an event/curse etc
Strictly speaking, I think it means Grey decided to dick around, no more, no less. Functionally, it makes him almost impossible to fairly read, and makes questioning or refuting him frustratingly difficult.- Plum
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Merci, Madame!
Tbh Hebichan I was going to vote you as a solid Townread, so if you need the Green Key, in my book you can enjoy it to your heart's content.
VOTE: Hebi-chan
There are several other decent choices, Implo is okay.
Man I'm excited to bring Townreads out in the open and get some consensus-building going there but also I can't wait for regular lynch voting to come back (hopefully?) so we can hash out scummy guys like this one. Also a good substitute for force-replace. Can't say Notknown15 doesn't deserve it.In post 375, Skygazer wrote:off the top of my head:
I'd probably hard pass on katsuki (outted lyncher?) and alisae (probs scum/third party??)
I think implo has been very townie
VOTE: implosion
Who needed a green key again? I've had a massive migraine today
pedit: ehhhh i don't like that not known post- Plum
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Maria just barely scrapes above the bottom quartile but literally only because she said "GE is Town but don't ask why just yet", which isn't ~content or anything but may (~~~~) be a meaningful contribution down the line (honestly statistically it says a lot more about Gamma's likelihood of being Town than Maria's but still not nothing about Maria's).In post 445, implosion wrote:
Why not toss Maria in that list?In post 420, Plum wrote:NK is a scummy mess with little information or content to offer, part of the bottom quartile along with TemporalLich and Skygazer. Trying to sort those three by likelihood of being scum right now seems low-utility. But to put it bluntly, we should avoid taking any of them into the Well of Fears.- Plum
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Sure, sure, still can lean alignment indicative (at the very least it semi-locks her into having to claim information later).In post 454, hebichan wrote:Even that is a bit fishy given literally no one has shaded GE all game.
If I had a powerlynch vote, it would be here by the way.In post 478, Skygazer wrote:Wait, is hebi not a lyncher?
Short version of what do re powerlynching, well, we can't right now. We don't know what happens if we power-Townblock Key vote, but it seems likely that we'll get some public opinion-interaction mechanic after a hammer, just like we got this Green Key giveaway after lynching with time left on the clock. I don't think weneedto rush it but it shouldn't be an inherent negative for the Town to commit this early (remember, Madame is definitely pro on contributing and moving the game forward in its limited time frame - I doubt she'd reward us for dragging our feet). In some ways it's more valuable to vote someone to get a key than to lynch - it won't reset the scum kill cooldown, and it's not like we get less flip information out of hammering the Key giveaway than we would hammering a lynch. Unless I missed something, we're at 6 votes on Hebi-chan out of 7. I think anyone who feels strongly that we ought not give it to Hebi-chan, feels very strongly that we should give it to another specific person, or feels strongly that we should slow down (I would be skeptical) should make their arguments now. Otherwise, why should we wait?- Plum
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Okay, that's a valuable perspective, I hear you.In post 521, implosion wrote: The thing about maria is this:
is backwards, IMO. The "GE is town but don't ask why" thing fits to a T how I think Maria's scumgame works; it's the kind of peppering in things that are "loudly" townish that she iirc does as scum. I can't think of examples but. I do agree w/ plum that it says more about Gamma being likely town than it does overall about Maria but I think it's actually a point in favor of her being scum.In post 452, Plum wrote:
Maria just barely scrapes above the bottom quartile but literally only because she said "GE is Town but don't ask why just yet", which isn't ~content or anything but may (~~~~) be a meaningful contribution down the line (honestly statistically it says a lot more about Gamma's likelihood of being Town than Maria's but still not nothing about Maria's).In post 445, implosion wrote:
Why not toss Maria in that list?In post 420, Plum wrote:NK is a scummy mess with little information or content to offer, part of the bottom quartile along with TemporalLich and Skygazer. Trying to sort those three by likelihood of being scum right now seems low-utility. But to put it bluntly, we should avoid taking any of them into the Well of Fears.
Her boredom/catchup-post style in the first couple days fits how she played as scum in mlp. 451 is *absolutely* a line I can see her saying as scum.
Well, keep us posted on if anything valuable comes up there I guess.In post 591, Alisae wrote:also yeah
I'm in a neighbourhood with NK15
we both don't know why we're in there
I'm assuming someone put us in there?
If we already have voices for picking TL as somewhere in scum/unreadable/deadweight and for GreyICE as Town I like the idea of sending one of {MariaR, kuribo} as players who are well above the "able to function and contribute constructively" threshhold, still kinda opaque to me, but would be very helpful to the Town if someone like GreyICE came out of the game we're sending people to with a firm Townread on. Then on top of that, maybe one of {Alisae, Katsuki} as players who are vibrant, contributing, but based on their styles I would find hard to trust any Townread I generated on them based on flipless dayplay alone - if there's a chance mechanical information comes out of the game one way or another, that could be especially valuable for those two in particular. I wouldn't be surprised if one or more players get a bonusandone or more players get a malus out of the game.
VOTE: MariaR- Plum
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Not true. I also requested you answer. You might have missed it. But please do.In post 671, TemporalLich wrote:you know what screw it...
it's very clear that question doesn't deserve an answer.- Plum
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Actually, I didn't forget that. Don't know why you made that assumption. Any reason you didn't respond at the time?In post 679, TemporalLich wrote:
not really, though you probably forgot the quote of that question in 609 is a naked quoteIn post 677, Plum wrote:
Not true. I also requested you answer. You might have missed it. But please do.In post 671, TemporalLich wrote:you know what screw it...
it's very clear that question doesn't deserve an answer.
Okay now sorry to ask, but does this hold true when the setup spec isn't. Like when it isn't setup spec.In post 680, TemporalLich wrote:
It's slightly more beneficial to the town to do your setup spec out in the open, so the rest of the town can know it... that's the reasoning I got.In post 678, kuribo wrote:Yeah fuck it I think he should answer
I mean I don't actually care about the answer
But I'm willing to scream at him for fifteen pages about it if necessary
Not really out of wanting to know but more because I think it would be amusing
It means the other townies don't have to setup spec as hard as normal.- Plum
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u wot mateIn post 696, TemporalLich wrote:
... why would you attack a townread on you?In post 691, implosion wrote:
it isn't.In post 682, TemporalLich wrote:though 51/52 is setup spec and you can't tell me it isn't.
ever heard of scum buddying up to a Townie
not 100% this is a portrait of you here and now but, like
there's nothing unusual in questioning someone's Townread on you
especially if that Townread is founded on MOONBEAMS- Plum
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He was certainly accused of being a scum picker before you got all prissy about "deathtunneling" him.In post 750, TemporalLich wrote:okay I've not played with Pine before so I thought he was being deathtunneled.
If he's indeed a scum picker... then yeah that's a good reason to banish him. Pine already was being scummy but the deathtunnel was off-putting.
We really have to deal with two people who are trying to apply Abstract Mafia Theory to a game they're not even reading here? And spend pages going back and forth while Skygazer is allowed to just fade into the background because we have nothing better to do during this enforced no-lynch period? At least we got kuribo revved up, but we need Real Voting back ASAP.- Plum
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you're really trying too hard to come across as not having to try hard against NK15's accusations here. doesn't bode well tbh
I mean, doesn't matter, you're being voted into the game atm essentially because hebi wanted you as one scum read that three of the Townreads could grill so, like, fine
and you're also lucky that Skygazer still looks even worse than you- Plum
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I mean, it's pretty quiet around here with no lynch vote available. At least the Key vote was a Townread vote that could be hammered with a majority. These votes matter for something, sure, but it's not a clear cut vote Townread/vote scumread, argue about the biggest wagon(s). Right now we're in kind of a holding pattern until 50.- Plum
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Damn, it hurts but absolutely deserved.
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In post 840, Alisae wrote:ok well here's my plan
2 of {Me, Implo, GreyICE} agree to vote safety while the other votes for the key.
I think thats how we play this out because if TL votes safety, whoever votes key gets the key and banishes TL
and if TL votes key, we just give the key to whoever voted key and we banish TL
So: Alisae is voting Safety. Implo and GreyICE need to decide who's voting Key and who's voting Safety among the two of them, correct? I have a slight preference for GreyICE taking the key but the important thing is not to leave it up in the air, we have until 6:59 EDT tonight.In post 873, Alisae wrote:if ur the person I'm giving a key too, I'm giving it to you because I TR you not because I want to test an ability.
Either way I'm defaulting my vote to safety, Implo can be the one to decide if u get the key or not.
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Okay, interim plan has GreyICE, Alisae, TL on Safety and implo on Key, implo Banishes TL; if TL defects and chooses Key instead, one of Alisae or GreyICE gets to choose to Banish TL and give Key to implo
We can re-coordinate before deadline if GreyICE shows up
I'm pretty confident in GreyICE Town rn so in principle I'd be fine with him getting the Key and keeping it but we can discuss that if he shows up. I don't object to implo getting his hands on it, anyway- Plum
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Yes
GreyICE go Safety.If he hasn't locked Key in without telling us, he should default to this.Alisae, TL, also Safety.
Implo Key.
If we do this and TL does go Safety, implo gets the Key and chooses TL to banish.
If we do this and TL defects and goes Key, then GI and Alisae get to choose one of {TL, implo} to get Key and one to Banish and the choice seems obvious.
If and only if GreyICE is around before deadline we can coordinate switching to GI go Key and Implo Safety. Implo says he will probably be around at the deadline so this is an option but don't worry about this unless GreyICE actually shows up and initiates coordination on it!- Plum
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Yeah well it's not like we can choose to Banish kuribo rn regardless so it's mootIn post 978, TemporalLich wrote:
thanks for confirming kuribo is 3P and not scum...In post 977, Katsuki wrote:or maybe kuribo simply trolled and really is 3p this game but all that matters in the end is that he's not mafia
I copped him last day and got the results (not mafia)
it's still better to banish 3P than town though.- Plum
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Sure, we can worry about it thenIn post 991, kuribo wrote:In post 990, Plum wrote:
Yeah well it's not like we can choose to Banish kuribo rn regardless so it's mootIn post 978, TemporalLich wrote:
thanks for confirming kuribo is 3P and not scum...In post 977, Katsuki wrote:or maybe kuribo simply trolled and really is 3p this game but all that matters in the end is that he's not mafia
I copped him last day and got the results (not mafia)
it's still better to banish 3P than town though.
You can next round but you shouldn't until I reveal the secrets of the black key
Otherwise town and scum can get aaaaaaaaalllllll the way to the well of fears without realizing they're handing me the win instead of winning themselves- Plum
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Sounds like you would be less keen on Banishing him if he were though, to be fair.In post 998, kuribo wrote:In post 995, TemporalLich wrote:I'm not a kuribo goon.
You wouldn't know it if you were unless I got a red key which opens up a neighborhood among them- Plum
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I don't think we sent in theIn post 1023, hebichan wrote:Sorry, I napped a lot of the day, hadn't read that yet when I did my catchup post.
Considering how this game worked out I think we sent in the right people. I trust Imp/GI/Alisae a lot more now.wrongpeople per se. But I don't trust any of those threemorethan I did previously.
I don't know. Maybe it's the two claimed third parties, with one of them gumming up the game deliberately (not that Iblamekuribo for playing to his won condition but yeah) and maybe it's the no-reveal stuff - probably a bit of both. But I'm starting to feel like this game is going off spiraling into a grey oblivion. And that's saying something considering that the Pine Banish, hebi-chan Key vote were both as I would have had them, and for the game even the TL Banish + implo Key basically went as planned and the plan was decent in my book. Wellll ... sure, I would have preferred GreyICE take that Key, but he wasn't around to coordinate otherwise and so it goes. Like, these all seem like successes. I should be feeling only more and more pleased with the gamestate! But instead I'm getting paranoid that we're on the completely wrong track.
Like, I've been going along with the semi-consensus implo-Town read. But I'm not even sure how well founded that even is? I'm not exactly happy about him asking TL for a pre-Banish Key Cop result.
UhhhhIn post 1066, Alisae wrote:I am so looking forward to banishing NK16
not sure there
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Please everyone just ignore kuribo to the best of your ability and that's it. Also Skygazer. Just ignore them and don't give them Keys, the end.
In post 1083, GreyICE wrote:I’m not sold on the NK15 quick Lynch. Pine was justice. This feels like annoyance.
For a number of reasons, GreyICE is in my "I can't picture lynching them" group. Implo is not. Can you help me see why your Townread on Implo is so firm?In post 1094, hebichan wrote:Among other people (GreyIce, Implosion) are my never lynch group.
Maria, look, "Towny" third party isn't a thing. Like it really, really isn't. Also, I want to be real with you, if you feel strongly that your Town game can only really contribute lynching your scumreads, you're going to have to do better than the claimed third party who is actively antagonizing the game because that's his style and he wants to manipulate us. That's not you providing a valuable insight.
I do not want to lynch Katsuki if only because their Townreads are good. Straight up.
NK15, I appreciate that you are trying something but I have no idea what it is. Also you're wrong.In post 1187, Katsuki wrote:Sorting her while not putting pressure on her and voting me instead?
Words are cheap.- Plum
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Hey Hebi-chan, can you help me understand where your strong Townread of Implo is coming from? I pretty much trust you but I don't trust Implo nearly as much.
The claimed third parties are already in a position where we wouldn't willingly give them keys and wouldn't willingly take them into the Well of Fears. I'm not super interested in lynching there. I am super interested in full-on ignoring. I would rather use the pressure of a lynch - limited though it may be - to grill players who have a chance of being in a coalition. Players who some are Townreading and some are scumreading, like Implo and Maria (and Katsuki I guess is in that category?).- Plum
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I'm with GreyICE here
VOTE: implosion
Hebi, I'm sorry, I've definitely tried to figure this one out - I spent a day looking into this with as much thoroughness as I could - but I'm drawing a blank and will need you to walk me through it.In post 1242, hebichan wrote:Plum questioned why I liked implosion as town. The reasons are private but she should know why.- Plum
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Yes, I know you share a Neighborhood. Yes, I share a Neighborhood with him, though I'm not 100% sure he Neighborized me, technically. A few things don't add up. Regardless "I Neighborized Implo, he Neighborized Plum" may be close enough to true for our purposes but it is not a sufficient reason not to lynch him. There's quite a lot questionable going on with him that the existence of these Neighborhoods don't answer.
Hebi, we need to discuss
a) your strong Townread of Implo. If it's based on content in the Neighborhood, I would really appreciate it if you discussed it in a more specific way, enough to help me see why you feel this strongly that Implo is Town.
And also
b) what implo claimed to you in your Neighborhood- Plum
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Okay, no differences in what he claimed to both of us. Still kind of pissed about the first one to be honest, but let's pass over that. If - if - somehow - what Skygazer has to say explainsIn post 1276, hebichan wrote:1-shot neighborizer that can steal a key from the person in the neighborhood, used on plum.
a 1-shot I
Key cop that tells you if the key is "the real color"?
He can avoid an event with his orange key abilityhowhe managed to Neighborize me, I will give it due consideration. Otherwise there's a huge gaping hole in this story.
Back to the first thing - why you're so convinced he's Town. Please. If you really think he's Town because of how he acted in your Neighborhood thread, please try to give us a sense of what was so Town about it.- Plum
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1. A rolecop will tell us whether he claimed falsely to Hebi-chan and me - it could be the nail in the coffin but it can't clear him. Fine, sure.In post 1292, Skygazer wrote:my investigation on maria revealed her cys picks, my investigation on implo is a rolecop, and i get a couple more things i want to hold close to the chest if i'm given the blue key
2. You won't get the Blue Key. We may keep you alive, but Keys? No. - Plum
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