Grand Idea uPick [Game Over]

[Rautherdir]

4th

[Rautherdir]

Oh really? Well I'll show you a worse RVS vote.
VOTE: Almost50

[Rautherdir]

Oh really? Well I'll show you a worse RVS vote.
VOTE: Almost50

you mad lad, you actually voted the IC

I'm not sure whether to SR you hard or SR you a little for this

But, you do agree it was a worse RVS vote, right?
UNVOTE:

[Rautherdir]

Can we modify this game of GE's so that you can't neighborize the IC. Because I'm pretty sure that would just be everyone.

[Rautherdir]

Neighborize A50 so I have at least one person I can privately bounce thoughts off and scumhunt with knowing for sure they're on my side

Also,
Do I not count? (I know I said I wasn't going to be this obvious but turns out I'm terrible at that.)

Cop Inferno390
Neighborize Gamma Emerald
Vig ofhrz

Also, VOTE: ofhrz
This ones a touch more serious.

p-edit:
Yeah, I knew to make sure to remove the vote as soon as possible and make it clear it was a joke.

[Rautherdir]

Yeah, joke.alreadyBeenMade() is true

[Rautherdir]

I shall now treat pisskop as an IC solely to prevent that from happening

Wait what.

[Rautherdir]

Oh really? Well I'll show you a worse RVS vote.
VOTE: Almost50

you mad lad, you actually voted the IC

I'm not sure whether to SR you hard or SR you a little for this

i like Rautherdir
dumb play which attracts attention
not good for scum
but then again, scum knows that
so NAI

I mean, I admitted I knew what I was doing, so it's definitely NAI at best.

p-edit
Look at one of Gamma's first posts for what the game is. I think it's a decent idea. (and at the very least should carry us out of RVS)

I'll also note that not all of the IC's in Grand Idea are actually town. So yeah, voting an IC isn't terrible. Just ill-advised. Let them get night-killed by scum instead.

[Rautherdir]

Neighborize A50 so I have at least one person I can privately bounce thoughts off and scumhunt with knowing for sure they're on my side

Also,
Do I not count? (I know I said I wasn't going to be this obvious but turns out I'm terrible at that.)

Cop Inferno390
Neighborize Gamma Emerald
Vig ofhrz

Also, VOTE: ofhrz
This ones a touch more serious.

p-edit:
Yeah, I knew to make sure to remove the vote as soon as possible and make it clear it was a joke.

joke?
vote is I mean?
must be because ofhrz hasn't posted
right?

Well, I did say only a touch more serious
Mostly because I can claim I voted ofhrz for lurking.

p-edit:
And we all know we should have the utmost respect for legal systems comprised of one person.
That may or may not be because doing otherwise will get you killed.

[Rautherdir]

Alright, sure. ofrhz actually started posting anyways.
VOTE: Hectic

[Rautherdir]

I’m loving how my “Dayvig” was counted as a vote

I cop Turin, Neighbor Gamma, and Vig

myself

Orfhz I guess

This is really starting to hurt my feelings guys

Eh, I'm pretty sure most of us are just putting players who haven't posted as their vig.
Speaking of, vig Arcfield.

[Rautherdir]

All aboard!

VOTE: Hectic

VOTE: Hectic

Choo choo!

Alright, sure. ofrhz actually started posting anyways.
VOTE: Hectic

VOTE: Hectic

let the fireworks fly

scummy scums
i wouldn't be surprised if like 2 people here are scum
what did i do wrong?
nothing
bad wagon
all of these votes are without reasons as well

Oh, you wanted a reason?
Voting Pisskop without a reason.

[Rautherdir]

I'll admit my vote was still not that serious originally. Less so now.

[Rautherdir]

Point to one of my posts where I'm acting towny. I challenge you to find one post of mine where I'm not acting scummy.

[Rautherdir]

Point to one of my posts where I'm acting towny. I challenge you to find one post of mine where I'm not acting scummy.

what?
you're trying to act scummy?

No, I'm just saying I haven't been purposely acting towny. I don't need to act towny if I am towny. I would need to act scummy since I'm not scummy.
Voting someone you think is town in order to have a wagon to analyze is an interesting reason. Especially since you tend to taint the wagon analysis by being on it.

[Rautherdir]

(Also, if anyone who's played with me before is wondering why I'm playing differently, it's because I almost got lynched in Project Arch for my day 1 play and this game I don't have a Mason partner to bail me out, so... yeah. I'm not going to repeat behavior that almost got me killed in a previous game.)

[Rautherdir]

Point to one of my posts where I'm acting towny. I challenge you to find one post of mine where I'm not acting scummy.

what?
you're trying to act scummy?

No, I'm just saying I haven't been purposely acting towny. I don't need to act towny if I am towny. I would need to act scummy since I'm not scummy.
Voting someone you think is town in order to have a wagon to analyze is an interesting reason. Especially since you tend to taint the wagon analysis by being on it.

i see
so much for that though
though a wagon on myself is as good actually
still get to see reactions
and who hops on/off

what's your read on me now?

Useful bait for an early day 1 wagon to get reactions from and a decent place to park my vote while waiting for a better place. Hasn't really changed. I'm kind of waiting for more people to show up before I get more serious. (None of my votes so far have really been serious. While I did get second thoughts about you for a moment, turns out I just completely missed your stated reason for voting pk)

[Rautherdir]

(Also, if anyone who's played with me before is wondering why I'm playing differently, it's because I almost got lynched in Project Arch for my day 1 play and this game I don't have a Mason partner to bail me out, so... yeah. I'm not going to repeat behavior that almost got me killed in a previous game.)

Hmmmm.. ok, since you mentioned it... are you 3P?

Nope. Just town, not even confirmed to anyone this time around.

[Rautherdir]

What even is this game

Grand Idea uPick, hosted by Korina

[Rautherdir]

Ooh, I can answer that one!
It was an easy vote on someone who even dared to make a possibly-not-joking vote on an IC

[Rautherdir]

But why would you vote hectic when you can VOTE: Inferno

(... still not really serious, btw)

[Rautherdir]

If by hammered you mean L-4 (Well, L-5) then yes.

[Rautherdir]

But why would you vote hectic when you can VOTE: Inferno

(... still not really serious, btw)

I said all feathers, talons, and peaks inside the wagon at all times. Get back on there, mister

Is it really a wagon if it only has 3 votes? Well, I guess it would be a wagon with 4 votes, but still.

p-edit
The real question is why

shouldn't

we vote Inferno.

[Rautherdir]

Not in this thread. They did post in the sign-ups though.

p-edit....
Ha, I'm not the only one who can't keep secrets! But I was keeping that one.

[Rautherdir]

(That was just going to be a soft that I'm in other threads. Not that ofhrz is or isn't in any threads with me.)

[Rautherdir]

Suffice it to say I'm in that thread as well and can confirm what Pisskop said. I won't be confirming anyone else as being in that thread or not though.

I will note that both the doc and kill are apparently factional abilities, even though we don't have a factional win con? (Or at least I don't)

[Rautherdir]

Alright, serious time I really don't think Inferno is scum. Lack of content and contentless posting in RVS is honestly NAI, and (albeit while pressured) he has started posting pretty good content.
UNVOTE:

[Rautherdir]

(That was just going to be a soft that I'm in other threads. Not that ofhrz is or isn't in any threads with me.)

What the freak does she have to do with this? You're confusing me even more than if you had kept quiet.

I'm in the hood ofhrz and pk are talking about. I wasn't going to reveal who else was in the thread at the time. (still not, because I'm pretty sure scum is going to try and kill the neighborhood with shared vig.)
In the post previous to that I accidentally made it sound like ofhrz was also in that thread, which hadn't been my intention with that post.

[Rautherdir]

Ah, I see what you're doing there gobbledygook. I'll raise you a VOTE: on chennisden

(I mean seriously, comes parading in saying they're going to solve the game and then... silence.)

[Rautherdir]

Ah, I see what you're doing there gobbledygook. I'll raise you a VOTE: on chennisden

(I mean seriously, comes parading in saying they're going to solve the game and then... silence.)

Uh. What am I doing?

Voting a lurker/someone with little content?
Right?

[Rautherdir]

I mean, I don't really see that as much, but okay. (I'm just leaving my vote on chennis for now, I think they need the pressure anyways.)

[Rautherdir]

Sliver. And yeah, it automatically fills with 1/3 + 1 of the playerlist if at least one sliver is picked. Also I have no clue where our factional doc ability came from, I'm pretty sure it isn't a sliver role. (I legitimately can't find anything that can give that ability to us in Grand Idea, so maybe the mod just gave it to us for some reason?)
The role that gives us the hood and factional night kill is Muscle Sliver though.

[Rautherdir]

(That was just going to be a soft that I'm in other threads. Not that ofhrz is or isn't in any threads with me.)

What the freak does she have to do with this? You're confusing me even more than if you had kept quiet.

I'm in the hood ofhrz and pk are talking about. I wasn't going to reveal who else was in the thread at the time. (still not, because I'm pretty sure scum is going to try and kill the neighborhood with shared vig.)
In the post previous to that I accidentally made it sound like ofhrz was also in that thread, which hadn't been my intention with that post.

isn't this scummy?
like what neighbourhood isn't gonna be a scumchat?
this is Grand Idea
so how would people randomly be selected for one?

See, Grand Idea Mafia has Slivers: viewtopic.php?p=10129364#p10129364

[Rautherdir]

Also: Masonries, normal neighbors, (I'm pretty sure I could think of a third example but I can't)

[Rautherdir]

Ah, I see what you're doing there gobbledygook. I'll raise you a VOTE: on chennisden

(I mean seriously, comes parading in saying they're going to solve the game and then... silence.)

pretty lazy there Rautherdir
you said Inferno was NAI for non-content?
bad fabrication

Rautherdir

I mean, there's non-content, and then there's broken promises. This was broken promises. (Feel free to prove me wrong chennis)

[Rautherdir]

I claimed because pk claimed. Also, from my perspective chennis showed up after I voted him, so I see no reason to not unvote... he just said something and abandoned ship again.
Welp, guess I'll leave my vote on chennis then.

[Rautherdir]

also i think mafia IC is so so bastard/unlikey
so no harm really for scum!Rau
knowing most people will disregard if said D2/D3

So, let me mention a few things:
First, it's a uPick. You pick your own roles. There's no randomness unless you pick one of the roles with randomness.
Second, in GIM there's only a mafia IC godfather (though I'm pretty sure Korina wouldn't allow that), and also a cult IC (and also what's basically town jester IC, which is actually a pretty interesting role) You're probably right that the Mafia IC would be ruled out, the Cult IC is probably fair game though considering this is Korina we're talking about.
Third, I really don't think A50 is actually scum. I just said that because at the time I had wanted to make sure that A50 was actually confirmed 100% town myself, and I felt keeping that information private would be anti-town. (I saw a lot of crazy roles in GIM while picking mine, so I will double-check things if I need to. Town should know what they can trust implicitly and what they can't.)

[Rautherdir]

@Hectic:
I'm not saying it's not NAI, I'm well aware it's NAI. I'm saying it would be alignment indicative

not

to say it, so it's definitely NAI. There's also (in my opinion) better IC roles to pick then the Cult IC role, so I'm not suggesting that's likely (I mean, getting shot by scum is a high probability for any IC role, so roles that can do some direct damage to scum and win with town are usually preferable.)

Also, while we were actually given the option for a balanced game, I'm not sure anyone actually signed up for this expecting a balanced game. Honestly, signing up for this game you should be anticipating cult being at the very least likely, and cult is rather difficult to balance correctly. (Not saying Korina can't put cult in a balanced game, if anything Korina would probably be one of the more likely game moderators to get cult into a balanced or at the very least semi-balanced game.)

I'm not sure if you're just misinterpreting what I'm saying, purposely misrepresenting what I'm saying, or just clueless about what to expect this game. The only reason I'm really responding to this is to resolve our miscommunication if it's the former, make it obvious if it's the second, or inform you if it's the last. As far as I can tell, all you have as a case for me is 'he backpedaled on a vote on me after realizing a mistake he made, and I think that's towny; but everything else is pretty scummy' and while I honestly don't think that's something scum would do, it's also not really a case. I mean, the only thing you pointed out, you said was towny. That's not really how a case works, and it's not really trying to convince anyone or create discussion. If this was later in the game I might think you were scum who had given up, but this is day 1. Your actions perplex me and I'm not really sure what to do about it. I'm not really worried about defending myself at this point, I'm just letting you know that it would be very easy for scum to build a convincing case against you for doing what you're doing right now, and as I kind of have to come to the conclusion that you're town that isn't something I want. (And if you are scum that just succeeded in pocketing me, then bravo, gambit success, I honestly don't care)

[Rautherdir]

Wait how did you originally think I claimed scum with Inferno?

because a neighborhood with a kill sounds suspiciously like a scum PT

But I didn’t say Inferno was in the PT with me

... oh

I misread that then.

I still SRed inferno.

What did you even misread to get that conclusion from? No one ever brought up Inferno being in the hood, and as far as I can tell nothing close to it or softing it either. That does explain your confusing read on though.
I'd say to put this day's lynch between you and Inferno or you and pisskop, but chennis and Bingle still aren't active/caught up.

p-edit
Umm, you might have to just read the game. I mean, it's less then 20 pages, and I'm not sure it's worth it to summarize. (but, I'll try to hit a few highlights) Almost50 was confirmed in the game's opening post to be a Town Innocent Child. There's a Sliver 'faction' with NK and doc abilities consisting of at least me, pk, and ofrhz that outed itself. The mod has confirmed that they're able to do/have done actions outside the scope of a normal GIM game (Read 330 for info on this). Town bounced around between (If I remember correctly) wagons on Temporal, Inferno, pisskop, and Hectic so far, and appears to be coming down to a decision between Temporal, Inferno, and pisskop. (At least, I'm guessing. Not sure if I'm reading the game-state accurately or not.)
In more recent new, Hectic appears to be copying Gamma's game of cop, neighborize, vig

[Rautherdir]

^ confusing read on ofrhz though.
Guess I forgot to finish rewriting that sentence.

[Rautherdir]

Why would you even pick a role that difficult to win with? In other news, Inferno is confirmed not to be a Pikachu. (Despite their avi)

(Also Inferno, Hectic made more then one reference, which is not an optimal way to play that role)

[Rautherdir]

@Inferno:
Yeah, it's not anywhere near the most difficult role to win with in GIM, but it's basically survivor except you have to fake-claim your role and be subtle with a reference and hope no one calls you out on it. (To be fair, with Sword and Shield coming out soon it would probably be easier to make a subtle or not-so-subtle reference and live with it.) I, personally, would have counted the first reference; but I'm not Korina so take that as you will. (I do agree it could be a pretty fun role though.)

p-edit
In retrospect, I'm not really sure why I asked that question since I knew the answer.

p-edit2
Definitely. You picked 3 to 5 cards, and the mod picked one. You couldn't submit the same role twice, or the same role but with differing alignments. If for some reason you picked all cards of the same alignment, then you would be guaranteed to get that role unless the mod had to change your alignment to keep within the 'at least 3 town-aligned and at least 2 mafia/werewolves' constraint or changed your role to vt because your picks were overpowered.

p-edit3
Well, at least now I'll learn if Almost 50 is definitely town or not.

[Rautherdir]

Really? Well explain to me how it works then

What I said in my post. (except after looking, I noticed it's 1 to 5 picks, not 3 to 5 picks)
Speaking of, how would your theory work with 1 pick?

[Rautherdir]

@Almost50
To be fair, I thought it was 3 to 5 also, and did start wondering if what you mentioned was the case after you brought it up.

p-edit:
Did either of you read the post where A50 killed Bingle? To be fair, I think Bingle was just saying that A50 was almost definitely going to be the scum kill, but that really wasn't the best way to phrase it.

[Rautherdir]

Did either of you read the post where A50 killed Bingle? To be fair, I think Bingle was just saying that A50 was almost definitely going to be the scum kill, but that really wasn't the best way to phrase it.

Yeah, it was poorly phrased and I did misunderstand at first, but then I thought he wouldn't be calling for my death so blatantly and I reread it.

If Bingle is a Cult Leader

he would

have recruited me.

Yeah, that is absolutely the case. At the very least it shakes up town and scum after the flip because the town player wasn't actually town. (To be fair, in a situation where I'm a solo cult leader I might wait a night before recruiting you because town learning cult is a thing day 2 can be problematic, and scum

might

shoot you night 1 if they haven't found anyone better to shoot. That's not never recruit though, it's wait a night and recruit, which is rather different.) Also, we have two claimed healing abilities already. Scum might not hit 'obvious' targets because those targets are obvious. ALSO, I've made several statements to the effect of 'IC might not be town' which I was hoping would make you even less of a target for scum. (I figured out what you softed and realized you would very easily be able to prove whether you were town or not, and it doubled as a nice opportunity to see if anyone jumped on you for it. I wasn't actually sure if you would try to hold your shot a day or not, so I decided to see if I could potentially make it safer to do so.)

p-edit
I doubt it's just a reaction test. Read Almost50's opening post with the knowledge that Town 1-shot dayvig IC exists as a card.

[Rautherdir]

but do you die if he is town?

Does the IC that can never be scum (Unless recruited by cult I guess) die if they accidentally shot town? No, I don't think they do.

[Rautherdir]

Oh, I thought you meant lynching A50 if Bingle flips town. No, here's what Almost50 softed/claimed: viewtopic.php?p=6260678#p6260678

[Rautherdir]

can you add people to the hood?
add me please

Unless you have an ability of some sort that can get you into the hood, no. We don't have the ability to recruit. (The exception to this is if this role exists: viewtopic.php?p=10131344#p10131344 Thing is, that role isn't itself a sliver and wouldn't be in our hood, so we wouldn't know if it exists or not day 1. And that wouldn't be us recruiting you, so... yeah)

[Rautherdir]

Why is the hood secret?

We decided to keep membership secret unless a member decided they were fine with outing their participation. (And then proceeded to accidentally out spam.)

p-edit
The 25% chance of Mafia was just for the Muscle Sliver
Everyone else had their alignment left unchanged, I mentioned before how the Slivers will automatically and randomly pick players to be made Slivers to fill a certain quota.

[Rautherdir]

Alright, looked up slivers.

Sliver kill happens outside of the sliver thread, decide publicly. No real reason to hide slivers, since they're not confirmed to be any alignment distro and the ability is shared. Sliver doc probably happens inside of the sliver thread to prevent slivers from being taken over by a scumsliver.

Otherwise, ignore it.

I mean, mechanically speaking, we have to vote in the sliver thread for both. But we can work with town on who to make the kill on. Preferably multiple options based on how the lynch flips. I should note we're probably not able to use the night kill on other Slivers though, it's technically a factional night-kill and if I remember correctly it's usually against the rules to purposely use a factional kill on a member of your own faction. Which is probably actually why it's a factional kill and not a shared vig, thinking about it.

[Rautherdir]

Just telling town that option's probably not on the table. (and I've been wondering for a while why it was a factional kill and not a shared vig, previously I thought it was because if I remember correctly there's an investigative that can tell if you have factional abilities, the not being able to purposely kill another sliver with it makes more sense, helps prevent scum from taking it over.)

Speaking of, any ideas on good shots?

p-edit
Yeah, depends on the ruleset. Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure the rule I'm thinking of is just an interpretation of the 'play to your win-con' rule.

[Rautherdir]

(Theoretically, we could also probably joint win with a faction if at the end of the game all remaining players are slivers of that faction. At least I see no reason that couldn't happen. But yeah, thus the reason we aren't supposed to use the nk on ourselves and the reason we really don't have to worry about scum taking us over.)
Oh yeah, I should also mention that the additional wincon wasn't a thing at game start.

[Rautherdir]

There's still at least one other member that hasn't been revealed. Also, I outed myself.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, mechanics of Sliver player count are public, so anyone can do the math and figure that out. There is the question of which number it is though.

[Rautherdir]

A few of the roles actually say third of the playerlist plus one. (As if Slivers weren't complicated enough already) The Muscle Sliver does list the more standard 1/3 rounded down number though, so you can all rest easy knowing it's probably that. Also, what post is Gobble outed in??

[Rautherdir]

I do see where you could misinterpret that. I'll go ahead and confirm that Gobbles isn't a Sliver though. (I'm operating under the assumption there aren't renegade Slivers in this game.)

[Rautherdir]

Sorry about the wait.
I did not pick any explicitly cult roles. I did post a role with a random chance of being cult.

[Rautherdir]

Are you kidding me

Who the fuck do you think answers that

I'm pretty sure this question wasn't necessary.
Also, I've asked the mod a few questions and got answers, so... yeah.

Also, just a theory... It would only put Korina into the cult and change Cultists into Cult of Dog if that role is actually rolled randomly. In a uPick I'm guessing only the flip and mod answer replacements would occur.

Anyways, if you're going to be making statements like that Chennis, could you at least make them a bit more relevant so it doesn't seem like you're only trying to appear to be doing the barest minimum of sorting.

I'm legitimately thinking about moving my vote back onto you.

[Rautherdir]

Wow. One of those rare moments when I read a wall post and end up disappointed there wasn't more (I'd want to hear your thoughts on everyone else's claims. Except maybe Turin since they seem to have just, uh, disappeared.)

Are we actually mass-claiming today?

I'd want to lynch within the following:
- NMSA: Might be scum for reasons I explained in the sliver thread, that I can't give here without revealing NMSA's role. Read-wise I guess they're null for me though
- Chennis: I do hope their absence has been purely because it's day 1. That said, we do have a flip and a good amount of content to sort with, so that really shouldn't be an excuse
- Turin: Turin somehow has fewer posts then Chennis and I didn't even notice that until just now. That's, not great.
- DEB? ofhrz?: I have no experience with them (At least as far as I know), but if someone can convince me that one of them is probably scum then I'll be okay with lynching there.

I don't want to lynch any of the following today:
- Almost50: There is no scum Innocent Dayvig. Guaranteed to be town unless recruited by cult on a later night.
- Gamma: I'm fine with accepting Almost's read on Gamma
- Temporal, pisskop: I get the feeling both of these can be sorted later in the game; and I don't see anything that strikes me as making them likely scum.
- gobbledygook: I'll believe your claim of cult cop. I'll also note that your possible alignments as a cult cop are Town, 3p (wins when Cult is dead), or... Cult. At least two of those roles also guarantee that there's a cult.
- Inferno, KidAmn: Not today's lynch, at the very least. Will be able to sort later.
- Hectic: I've come to the conclusion you're town.

[Rautherdir]

Oh hey, I can actually browse the site now. Ofrhz asked why people who weren't voting NMSA, well, weren't voting him. NMSA's role has already been proven (not just claimed) to the slivers. (It isn't a clear cut inno or guilty, I'll say that much. But you already knew that, ofrhz) I'll wait until NMSA claims (if he does) to explain further publicly. In addition to that, I'd rather not end the day until LUV catches up, he might be able to get some informative reads that other people have missed.

[Rautherdir]

And... chennis and Hectic have been consistently defending each other. (Hectic started heavily scum reading me after I voted chennis the first time, and brought it up again after I brought up putting my vote back on chennis for lack of a better option. And just now Gobbles voted Hectic and chennis begins shading Gobbles.) I was originally just going to wait a bit and then vote chennis to see if Hectic brought up a scum read on me again for a third time and bring this up after that, but chennis defending Hectic is confirmation enough.

So I'm going to VOTE: chennisden and propose that if this flips scum lynch Hectic tomorrow. (Most of my argument for why Hectic is town was predicated on Hectic not having a good reason to scumread me. The vote on me being a chainsaw to distract from chennis would explain that.)
Alternatively, slivers can night-kill chennis and then we lynch Hectic tomorrow based on flip, or lynch chennis today and slivers night-kill Hectic tonight if chennis is scum.

[Rautherdir]

Hectic's original vote on me was an OMGUS. It cleared up fairly quickly, but then I voted chennis as a joke and these posts happened:

Ah, I see what you're doing there gobbledygook. I'll raise you a VOTE: on chennisden

(I mean seriously, comes parading in saying they're going to solve the game and then... silence.)

pretty lazy there Rautherdir
you said Inferno was NAI for non-content?
bad fabrication

Rautherdir

i think they're as likely
from town/scum i mean
infact
wouldn't scum have more to lose in breaking them?
lazy vote on someone with one post
there's better votes Rautherdir
i'm dissapointed

VOTE: Rautherdir

That eventually led to me concluding that Hectic is town, and after the votecount was reset I was no longer voting chennis.

Later, I post 849, which admittedly doesn't provoke a response (interestingly, 909 happens between this and the next post of interest, which puts me at the bottom of Hectic's FoS list), then later I post 971 where I effectively state I would personally most want chennis or Turin to be lynched today and this exchange occurs:

(NMSA is responding to 982)

it helps town, but it also helps scum, which I really don't want to do in a role madness/multiball(?) game.

what's the offer?

glad you asked
can see you've got good experience
your hours are flexible
you're hired

Rautherdir is scummy scum scumming around as scum
townreads me so would feel bad attacking him
need you to scumcase him for me please
there are scummy things there i can assure you
you will find them
do this for me and you will be rewarded
even if you like Rau
try and see what he could be doing that's scummy

thanks Spammy
you're the best

[Rautherdir]

^ 849 didn't provoke a response from either Hectic or chennis, so it's possible they just missed it. Chennis defending Hectic happened just now on this page (chennis's previous read on Hectic as far as I can tell was in 635 stating that he understood why Bingle (fated to die at that point) voted Hectic, if you count that as a read on Hectic as well)

[Rautherdir]

402 is where I came to the conclusion you are town, however after you made 985 I realized you might have been chainsaw defending chennis which would sufficiently explain the lack of a case on me, though I didn't want to note that was a suspicion until I saw more proof for that theory.

Also, obvious bus is obvious. (Until I brought up the fact you two might be partners chennis was a null or town read for you. Then I point it out and you immediately change your mind and vote him.) I mean it's the proper play in this scenario, if it wasn't also the obvious play as well.

[Rautherdir]

Oh hey, I can actually browse the site now. Ofrhz asked why people who weren't voting NMSA, well, weren't voting him. NMSA's role has already been proven (not just claimed) to the slivers. (It isn't a clear cut inno or guilty, I'll say that much. But you already knew that, ofrhz) I'll wait until NMSA claims (if he does) to explain further publicly. In addition to that, I'd rather not end the day until LUV catches up, he might be able to get some informative reads that other people have missed.

But doesn’t his card mean his alignment isn’t confirmed?

I believe that would be the implication of a confirmed role not being a confirmed inno or guilty.

I’d also support a Chennis wagon ig but I don’t really think lazy is a reason to not vote NMSA

Nmsa wanted to lynch tl fairly early in our PT when I thought it was too premature to make that call

I'm not voting chennis just for being lazy. I'm voting chennis because chennis and Hectic have both defended the other through the use of shading or voting the attacking player and are thus likely aligned together; as such a lynch on chennis should yield more information then other lynches currently proposed while also being a decently likely hit on scum. (I'm willing to say that if chennis flips town then Hectic is also town unless ever recruited by cult. And if chennis flips scum then I'm fairly certain Hectic would also flip scum.)

[Rautherdir]

I believe that would be the implication of a confirmed role not being a confirmed inno or guilty.

Right so why wouldn’t we vote for him again?

-answered in the slivers thread-
Basically, my argument is that I believe chennis is more likely to be scum then NMSA. If NMSA claims then I can post my full response to this question here, or if someone can give me a different reason/argument to vote NMSA that isn't related to his role then I can respond to that in the public thread.

[Rautherdir]

I'm not seeing how a chenn lynch does anything for the town.

It might do something for the slivers, but I ain't no stinkin' sliver.

In my mind this is sacrificing a lurker to get an inno or guilty on a lynchbait player. Which would be worth it. That does assume the rest of town agrees with my logic, which to be fair might not be the case. But I mean seriously, this is two players who have each done a chainsaw defense of the other. That's either group-scum or masons in any likely scenario as far as I know, and Hectic voting chennis tells me they aren't masons.

[Rautherdir]

Huh. I honestly thought people were more likely to vote chennis then Hectic, thus why I originally voted chennis. But I can go either way, and with Hectic no longer bussing and Gobbles and Almost50 saying no to the lynch...

VOTE: Hectic

Slivers can kill chennis tonight if town agrees.

[Rautherdir]

... Alright then. Can we please actually get a lynch in before deadline? Or are slivers just going to have to kill chennis because we couldn't get this done today? Either way, chennis you might want to claim now because otherwise you're almost definitely dying before day 2 starts.
VOTE: chennis

[Rautherdir]

I had just finished this too:

Spoiler: votecount

VOTE COUNT 1.13 (Unofficial)

KidAmn (4):

pisskop, Hectic, chennisden, TemporalLich

TemporalLich (3):

Gamma Emerald, NotMySpamAccount, Docter Easy Bake

chennisden (3):

KidAmn, gobbledygook, Rautherdir

NotMySpamAccount (2):

Almost50, ofrhz

pisskop (1):

Inferno390

Hectic (1):

gobbledygook

gobbledygook (0):

Inferno390 (0):

Rautherdir (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

Almost50 (0):

Lil Uzi Vert (0):

Dr Easy Bake (0):

ofrhz (0):

No-Lynch (0):

Not Voting (4):

Lil Uzi Vert
With

14

alive, it takes

8

to lynch.

(expired on 2019-10-08 23:20:00) remain in the day.

Mod Notes

:
- Remember: Flavor is just flavor. Don't use it to make arguments.
- Deadline has been changed due to the dayvig.
- Deadline has also been changed due to site-lag.
- Still seeking replacement for Inferno390.

Also, 4 votes and L-3? Is someone on that wagon a double-voter?

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: Inferno

I'd rather join the IC on Inferno then vote KidAmn.

[Rautherdir]

We have 12 hours left and the IC didn't like any of our wagons. And so we get left with this. Inferno is at L-3, by the way.

[Rautherdir]

Oh hey, my read on chennis was correct. Now let me think about my earlier logic about why chennisden was scum. Oh right, partners with Hectic, yeah.
VOTE: Hectic

p-edit:
Slivers did use their heal, so that might have stopped a kill.

[Rautherdir]

I'll let the people who didn't originally vote to heal you answer that. Also, someone in the hood got tracker results on Gobbles, tracking them to LUV and KidAmn. And the town cult cop can't target multiple players, so...
VOTE: Gobbledygook

[Rautherdir]

... The slivers shot chennis.

[Rautherdir]

Universal Miller basically makes any investigative that visits them Insane for that visit. It is impossible to track the Sliver night-kill.

[Rautherdir]

^ Paranoid, not Insane.

[Rautherdir]

Paranoid tracker sees a person visit the Mafia/Scum night kill along with any other results.

Let's just clear this up.

I received a message from the moderator on day start saying that I tracked you to LUV and KidAmn. I'm not a tracker, and I didn't know what to make of it at first, thinking it might be a message sent by scum, and also noting that it tracked you to both of the non-sliver night-kills I thought it might be Insane or some variant thereof. But the best way to figure these things out is to claim it, so to avoid going through the complication of what actually happened I just said that one of the slivers tracked you to those targets.

UNVOTE:

p-edit:
Mafia could have been swapped for Scum by Korina. Might want to confirm if that is the case, gobbles.

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: NMSA

It's going to be this, Hectic, or maybe Tempral.

[Rautherdir]

I don’t really know how to read ofrhz so until someone convinces me otherwise, I’m keeping my vote on Hectic

VOTE: Hectic

[Rautherdir]

Hectic, voting someone does not mean you aren’t aligned with them. Also, you still haven’t given any reason why I’m scum other then that I voted you, and that two of your other reads were correct. (And I was the first person to push scum!chennis so, what alignment do you think I am?)

[Rautherdir]

wow
how are people actually suspicious of me?
after my scumreads yesterday?
obvious counterwagon is obvious
and no one else for Rau?
really?

missed the Almost backing Baker up
apologies

the wagon on me makes me lot more suspicious of Gamma
it's like he's Mussolini and they're coming after me because i'm Stalin's son
i may have bad blood but i did nothing wrong
now Mussolini on the other hand...

for now will stay on Rau
but will change to Gamma if it comes to it

Which counterwagon are you talking about?
Inferno's wagon was last minute and started by Almost50 the IC.
KidAmn's wagon was started by Gobbles, who later retracted their scum read on KidAmn (Though to be fair KidAmn ended up flipping WW)
Chennis's wagon was started by me
The wagon on you yesterday was (also) started by Gobbles
Temporal's wagon was, umm.... I don't actually remember how that one started. It was off and on most of day one if I recall correctly though, so not a counterwagon.

(If you're talking about today's wagon on you being the counterwagon to Gamma, your wagon came first. Gamma is the counterwagon to you. I also didn't start you as a counterwagon for NMSA as my intent has clearly been to lynch/nk you if chennis flipped scum, which he did.)

I outlined why chennis and you were scum together on day 1. I straight up said that if chennis flipped scum I would flip you next and that's what I'm trying to do, and whether that's through today's lynch or tonight's sliver kill makes no difference to me. You persist in saying I'm scum without giving any reason why. There is no reason for town!you to continue doing that, and there have been multiple attempts on my part to get you to give a reason.

[Rautherdir]

Well, that probably could have gone better. Can we lynch someone who is actually scum now?
VOTE: Hectic

[Rautherdir]

Interesting that Bingle didn't get revived on night 1. We did (try to) kill Hectic. We'll probably try again tonight, unless Gamma agrees to desperado Hectic please? Also Gamma, wouldn't you be able to crumb a role that can convert cult to their original alignment and then self-target?

[Rautherdir]

Like, win condition wise Gamma cannot win as guiltied solo(?) cult, so... Gamma you're going to have to figure out how to be not cult and with your role you're in a unique position to do so.

[Rautherdir]

LOL

pisskop accidentally outed in the sliver chat. Gamma, pisskop asks why you targeted DEB, the friendly neighbor.

[Rautherdir]

But seriously, the unlynchable also having night protection basically confirms Hectic as being scum. They won't have protection for day kills though so Gamma if you can desperado Hectic before crumbing a different role (that can get you to being town) that would be great.

[Rautherdir]

Oh, I hadn't considered full deathproof. That's not fun. Let me look and see how many deathproofs are town.

[Rautherdir]

Hectic could actually be cult, or survivor (2-shot deathproof), a town 1-shot doctor, mafia lover, or mafia lynchproof + doctored by partner.

[Rautherdir]

Yep. if Gamma doesn't turn himself town that probably means Hectic is cult deathproof. If anyone here is a lover with Hectic then that confirms Hectic and gives us a way to kill him. If we flip a Mafia doctor/other healing then we can probably assume that Hectic is just lynchproof. Otherwise Hectic is town or survivor.

[Rautherdir]

@TL how is NMSA scummy?

Actually, NMSA is your slot.

[Rautherdir]

Hmm... VOTE: TemporalLich
Scum in slivers has already flipped. Assuming there was only one scum in the slivers, PoE says Temporal is the only other option along with Hectic.

p-edit
Gobbles can't be scum as far as we know. (assuming the tracker results I got night 1 were valid) Also gobbles, who was your kill?

[Rautherdir]

,,, You mean pisskop? Because they didn't flip doctor.

[Rautherdir]

I already said it went on Hectic. As far as we know there should actually be four kills, one Mafia, one Werewolf, one Sliver, and one vig from Gobbles. Unless Mafia and/or Werewolf only had one member.

[Rautherdir]

Umm... Was it DEB?

[Rautherdir]

Well, as far as we know there wasn't a heal on ofhrz. Interesting, there wasn't a heal on you either from us. (We did heal DEB.)

[Rautherdir]

I received a pm saying someone shot me.

Being informed of being shot at is not part of the role you claimed.

Bulletproof gets informed if they're shot.

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: TemporalLich
I was only going to bring this up after Hectic flipped, but since that's not happening... The only reason most of us didn't vote you was because Hectic claimed a meta clear on you.

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: TemporalLich
I was only going to bring this up after Hectic flipped, but since that's not happening... The only reason most of us didn't vote you was because Hectic claimed a meta clear on you.

I see plenty of "bad" in TL's ISO but I'd like to hear an explanation of how it's "scum".
I'm nowhere near done with reading in...

PoE, the alternatives are your slot and ofrhz. Once Gamma figures out how to make himself town he'll probably be confirmed. DEB is confirmed town. Almost50 is confirmed town. Hectic is lynchproof. Either none of the slivers are werewolves or the werewolves didn't kill night 1. Not sure which I find more likely at this point. In the former case either Temporal or Hectic is a werewolf or there are no other werewolves. I have no clue what to do if it's the latter scenario.

p-edit:
When getting desperado Gamma said he had to tell the mod what the crumb was for.

[Rautherdir]

Alright I'm a Saulus now. I checked, if it is any alignment that isn't town it changes alignment to town on death. Also, pisskop was the only cultist, so no fear of further conversion (though Rautherdir might want to speak up about why he was certain I was a lone cultist).

I wasn't? Hectic might also have been cult, and I said as much.

[Rautherdir]

BTW just remembered this tidbit: offers is scum.

Explain?

Also: VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Might as well proc Saulus now unless we have anyone better to kill.

[Rautherdir]

UNVOTE: Thought it could only proc on lynch. Nevermind, Slivers will just shoot you tonight, we can use the lynch for something more productive.

pedit:
Well okay then. VOTE: ofrhz

[Rautherdir]

Bold added by me.

~ Everyday, you may crumb an

ability

in the game thread and submit it to the mod. You will then receive that ability from the mod.

Something that I have paid a great deal of attention to in all the great/greater/greatest/grand games I've played in is the difference between ability and alignment. There is something wrong with Gamma's claimed plan...

I believe the action claimed by gobble combined with the flipped role was highly relevant.

Something

pierced a BP, and gobble's action didn't seem to have any effect. We're starting to get too many things "going wrong" to be accounted for by the claimed roles and it's bothering me.

Saulus is an ability that self-converts to town as a replacement to dying

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Between a scum protecting through a night-kill and Gamma getting protected through a night-kill I'd rather have the former so we aren't surprised in LYLO.

p-edit
GIM Saulus is an ability independent of alignment. TL wants to lynch within slivers because the only other alternatives besides him are Hectic (lynchproof or deathproof) or Gamma (confirmed town soon but probably the correct 'lynch' today regardless)

[Rautherdir]

Alright I'm a Saulus now. I checked, if it is any alignment that isn't town it changes alignment to town on death.

Does your death on D2 count or do we have to lynch you today?

It wouldn't. Saulus doesn't trigger if you're town. (Even if Gamma had been Saulus at the time.)

[Rautherdir]

Lynching Saulus ends the day. VOTE: ofrhz

[Rautherdir]

dave Rau and Temp are scum
let's start with what i've been saying since the start
shall we?

Are you saying me, dave, and temp are scum on the same team? Because that would have resulted in a win last night (Me and dave would have had control of the sliver's shot and today it would then be 6 alive, 4 to lynch with 3 scum)

And as a more general note: the only known protective at the moment is the slivers heal. So if we're not getting kills then scum is either holstering or isn't in the slivers.

VOTE: Hectic (L-2)

We should let GE get a new role before ending the day, so leave hammer for him.

[Rautherdir]

I don't have to explain TL. If you're town then slivers shoot TL tonight.

[Rautherdir]

dave Rau and Temp are scum
let's start with what i've been saying since the start
shall we?

Are you saying me, dave, and temp are scum on the same team? Because that would have resulted in a win last night (Me and dave would have had control of the sliver's shot and today it would then be 6 alive, 4 to lynch with 3 scum)

And as a more general note: the only known protective at the moment is the slivers heal. So if we're not getting kills then scum is either holstering or isn't in the slivers.

VOTE: Hectic (L-2)

We should let GE get a new role before ending the day, so leave hammer for him.

nope
probably 2 mafia and 1 alien/werewolf
maybe you and TL mafia?
and dave as werewolf/alien

Then why aren't there any kills? The only protective we know about is the slivers heal, why isn't anyone else dying if scum knows where the heal is?

p-edit:
- dave is known to be either Mafia or Town.
- Slivers are me, DEB, and dave.

[Rautherdir]

leave hammer for him.

Spoiler:

I mean, after thinking about it we should probably leave L-1 for him in case Hectic is scum with a partner and self-hammers. I'm just not sure how likely that scenario is.

[Rautherdir]

rautherdir how likely can you trust yourself to be town this game?

I'm really not sure what you're trying to ask with this question.

Probably about 99% though.
I doubt there are any secret alignment changes in play here and none of the cards I picked could secretly be another alignment.

[Rautherdir]

I can, in fact, now confirm that DEB is still a friendly neighbor, and is town-aligned.

[Rautherdir]

Why are we saving Hectic for tomorrow? As far as I can tell scum either isn't in the slivers or is holstering, that's the only real way I can explain the lack of kills.

[Rautherdir]

UNVOTE:

We should probably let Gamma strongman kill Hectic in case Hectic is full lynchproof. That leaves the lynch and the slivers kill to decide.

[Rautherdir]

If dave is mafia then mafia probably holstered last night to convince us there isn't scum in the slivers. So I can see a situation in which scum is in the slivers. I'm just not sure how likely that scenario is. Regardless, excluding me and Gamma the choice is between lynching Temporal and slivers kill dave, or lynching dave and slivers kill Temporal, or lynching one of them and slivers not shooting tonight/shooting Hectic tonight.

[Rautherdir]

How about lynch Temporal, Gamma vigs Hectic, Slivers kill dave/me? Or lynch Temporal, and Gamma and slivers both kill Hectic?

[Rautherdir]

why are we lynching temporal?

I'm possibly town

I mean, me and dave and technically Hectic are all also possibly town. Your point?

[Rautherdir]

You know, you'll still win even if you die as long as you're town. So why does it matter that you might be lynched?

I believe everyone's ready, so.. VOTE: TemporalLich L-1?

[Rautherdir]

We lynch Hectic tomorrow. He is 1-shot Unlynchable so he can be lynched the next time. Maybe I'm gullible; but I couldn't find a totally unlynchable scum role in the roles thread.

viewtopic.php?p=7981155#p7981155
There's also a few full deathproof scum roles. (I listed them out day 3)

Also, with that logic we could just lynch Hectic today.

[Rautherdir]

The whole reason we're not lynching Hectic today is so that Gamma can strongman kill him. If you're suggesting Gamma not strongman kill Hectic then we might as well lynch Hectic now.

[Rautherdir]

In retrospect, I shouldn't have put Temporal up to L-1 until I knew for certain we had an agreed-upon plan.

[Rautherdir]

<Realizes that wasn't a hammer>
Nevermind that.

[Rautherdir]

Cool!

@Gamma: Please shoot Rautherdir. If he flips town we lynch Hectic. If he flips "not town" we lynch TL.

How's that?

Who are we lynching today then? Dave?

[Rautherdir]

@ Hectic:
A) I thought there was a plan. At which point it would have been okay to proceed with the plan.
B) I also thought that even if there wasn't an agreed-upon plan, all currently proposed plans (except those proposed by Temporal) involved lynching Temporal

[Rautherdir]

Wait! Gamma shoots at night???? I had always thought we wanted him to have a DAYVIG ability today. Bollocks.

Now I need to re-do all my plans for today/tonight/tomorrow.

Well at least that explains where you were coming from... I had no idea what logic you were operating on for most of that.

[Rautherdir]

Suppose I should also claim. I'm a town die: viewtopic.php?p=9583086#p9583086 (Ironically also claimed by ofrhz in the slivers thread, though I didn't need to counter-claim someone with a guilty)

Night 1 I rolled tracker and tracked Gobbles since he claimed Cult Cop and not Inquisitor which is what a cult cop is called (Unless it's actually a

cult cop

).
Night 2 I rolled nothing.
Night 3 I rolled jailkeeper and targeted NMSA/davesaz.

(Apologies for saying I wasn't a tracker day 2. I really wanted to last though so I faked a less powerful role while still finding a way to claim my results (the fakeclaim almost backfired horribly actually))

p-edit
That's why Gamma is a strongman. So he can definitely kill Hectic

[Rautherdir]

Oops. Been a little bit since I looked to see what it was called. (Point remains that Gobbles didn't give the correct name for the role he claimed which made me suspect a fake-claim there.)

[Rautherdir]

Alright then, that works. VOTE: Hectic

(I just have to point out that your plan doesn't account for me dying in the night, but in the event that happens I'm sure you can figure something out.)

[Rautherdir]

Temporal is the only one who hasn't claimed as far as I can tell.

[Rautherdir]

DEB is conf-town. Gamma never crumbed something that could resolve to Cult Leader yesterday as far as I can tell, and I got confirmation that day that DEB was town, so unless that's bastard then DEB can't be scum.
Dave is either Town or Mafia.
Gamma is either Town, Cult, or Mafia.
I'm town, but unfortunately not confirmed. (Additionally, I rolled bulletproof last night)
Assuming there is one scum left and they have a recruit, this is MYLO. (If they have a night-kill, it's not necessarily MYLO, but the game would end before day 6 if slivers kill, if slivers don't kill then the game could continue to day 6 if slivers and/or me manage to block the night kill.)

The missing kill night 3 could have been if Gamma picked bulletproof or deathproof that night and the mafia kill was on him in addition to the sliver kill... or possibly because I jailkept a mafia!dave and inadvertently stopped their shot. (Dave's role doesn't have an active component to it, so my jailkeep was purely for the protection in my mind. I didn't realize until today that I could have stopped that night's kill with it.) In my mind it's between Gamma and dave (With an unfortunate slight chance of being both). But I'm not sure who it would be. I need to look at the results of night actions again to try and figure out where the kills may have gone.

However, I do know that if dave is scum and I am lynched, (or in a theoretical situation where I am scum and dave is lynched), the game probably ends immediately, unless Gamma is bulletproof, deathproof, or a doctor/roleblocker of some sort. So Gamma needs to become one of those before we lynch me or dave. But not deathproof. Because that's a scum claim right now. (And one we can't do much about, so... yeah.)

[Rautherdir]

And, yeah it's MYLO. Correct play is to no lynch/heal DEB/no kill to get it to a three person LYLO, right? (Alternatively, if Gamma crumbs anything that could be resolved to cult leader, lynch or kill Gamma to prevent a 2:2 town:cult or 1:1:2 town:mafia:cult win day 6)

Also, just realized Gamma almost certainly isn't mafia, strongman would affect both the vig and the factional kill in that case and we'd have had three night kills last night, not two. So Gamma is either cult or town. (Besides, I don't think they crumbed anything that could resolve to Judas that day.)

p-edit:
Hmm, let me figure out what the strategy with a jailkeep and a heal is. (Unfortunately, the sliver heal is compulsive, so we can't remove that variable)

[Rautherdir]

Alright, here are all the night actions as far as I can tell. Gamma did you use an action night 1? (You may have already claimed it, I'll go back and check in a bit.)

Spoiler:

n1:
Mafia nightkill KidAmn
Slivers nightkill chennisden
Slivers heal pisskop, DEB, Rautherdir
gobbledygook nightkills LUV
gobbledygook bulletproof
DEB friendly neighbor visits Almost50
Rautherdir tracks gobbledygook
KidAmn jailkeeps ?
Werewolves nightkill ? (Or holsters?)
chennisden nightkills ? (Or holsters?)
ofrhz strongman kills ? (Or holsters?)
ofrhz bulletproof
Hectic bulletproof
pisskop revives ? (Or holsters?)
Gamma Emerald ? ? (Or holsters?)
Werewolves eliminated?

n2:
gobbledygook nightkills ofrhz
mafia nightkill pisskop? (Or holsters?)
Werewolves nightkill pisskop? (Or holsters? Or eliminated?)
gobbledygook bulletproof
ofrhz strongman kills gobbledygook?
slivers nightkill Hectic
Hectic bulletproof
slivers heal DEB, NMSA
pisskop revives Gamma Emerald
DEB friendly neighbor visits ? (Or holsters?)

n3:
slivers nightkill Gamma Emerald
slivers heal DEB, Almost50
mafia nightkill ? (Or holsters?)
werewolves nightkill ? (Or holsters? Or eliminated?)
DEB friendly neighbor visits Rautherdir
Rautherdir jailkeeps davesaz
Cult eliminated?

n4:
mafia nightkill Almost50? (Or holsters?)
werewolves nightkill Almost50? (Or holsters? Or eliminated?)
slivers nightkill TemporalLich
Slivers heal DEB
Rautherdir bulletproof
DEB friendly neighbor visits ?
Gamma Emerald strongman kills TemporalLich
werewolves nightkill ? (Or holsters? Or eliminated?)
mafia eliminated?

[Rautherdir]

^ Night 1 Gamma Emerald watched Almost50, seeing DEB's visit.

[Rautherdir]

Mysteries:
I am assuming that if scum is in the slivers then they won't nightkill the slivers heal targets. Mechanically speaking I believe to get to this point then DEB must be town, Gamma is cult or town, davesaz is mafia or town, and I am mafia, town or werewolf (Excepting that there is no scenario where both me and davesaz are mafia). The only scenario, mechanically speaking, where I can be mafia is a scenario where Gamma is cult, or a scenario where mafia holstered that night or shot the sliver heal (While knowing it would be healed. If I am mafia then the mafia nightkill on night 3 was either Gamma, DEB, or Almost50; as davesaz's heal that night came from me and while a situation where mafia in the slivers targeting a sliver heal is conceivable, mafia healing their own nightkill is not, especially if there aren't any investigative players left where such a scenario might remotely make the slightest amount of sense.)

Night 1:
ofrhz's kill missing, possible causes: ofrhz holsters (unlikely), KidAmn jailkeeps ofhrz, ofrhz nightkills KidAmn, or ofrhz nightkills LUV
werewolves nightkill missing, possible causes: werewolves holster, werewolves nightkill chennisden (probably no sliver werewolf), werewolves nightkill Hectic/ofrhz/gobbledygook, werewolves nightkill LUV, or werewolves nightkill pisskop/DEB/Rautherdir (no sliver werewolf)
pisskop revive missing, possible causes: pisskop holsters, KidAmn jailkeeps pisskop, Bingle or Inferno were scum with a false flip (unlikely)
mafia nightkill missing, possible causes: KidAmn jailkeeps the mafia performing the kill, mafia nightkill ofrhz/Hectic/gobbledygook, mafia nightkill LUV, or mafia nightkill pisskop/DEB/Rautherdir (no sliver mafia)

Night 2:
werewolves nightkill missing, possible causes: werewolves eliminated, werewolves holster, werewolves nightkill Hectic (probably no sliver werewolf), werewolves nightkill ofrhz/gobbledygook, werewolves nightkill pisskop, werewolves nightkill DEB/NMSA (no sliver werewolf)
mafia nightkill missing, possible causes: mafia holster, mafia nightkill Hectic (probably no sliver werewolf), mafia nightkill ofrhz/gobbledygook, mafia nightkill pisskop, mafia nightkill DEB/NMSA (no sliver mafia)
ofrhz's kill missing, possible causes: ofrhz holsters (unlikely), ofrhz nightkills gobbledygook, ofrhz nightkills pisskop

Night 3:
werewolves nightkill missing, possible causes: werewolves eliminated, werewolves holster, werewolves nightkill a bp/dp Gamma Emerald, werewolves nightkill davesaz, werewolves nightkill DEB/Almost50 (no sliver werewolf)
mafia nightkill missing, possible causes: mafia holster, mafia nightkill a bp/dp Gamma Emerald, mafia nightkill davesaz, a jailkept davesaz performs nightkill, or mafia nightkill DEB/Almost50 (no sliver mafia)

Night 4:
werewolves nightkill missing, possible causes: werewolves eliminated, werewolves holster, werewolves nightkill Almost50, werewolves nightkill TemporalLich, werewolves nightkill Rautherdir, werewolves nightkill DEB (no sliver werewolf)
mafia nightkill missing, possible causes: mafia holster, mafia nightkill Almost50, mafia nightkill Rautherdir, mafia nightkill DEB (no sliver mafia)

[Rautherdir]

I got my role changed by TL, I am Odd Night JK now. So imo we lynch Dave/Rauth, I jail the other of the game doesn’t end, and we lynch the person I jailed D6. Any objections, ladies?

I mean, if you're cult then this leads to you winning. DEB is the

only

conf-town player here.

I don't think we can use the jailkeep to reliably solve the game. It's a double-edged sword, it can stop the nightkill in scenarios where the target is scum and scenarios where the target is town. The only way it helps us solve is if you jailkeep someone and you die that night, but having said that it probably isn't going to happen.

I think we should either no lynch to try to get to a 3 person LYLO on day 6 (With the bonus that if you use your jailkeep and you die that night the game can be solved); or lynch you, and if that doesn't end the game use the sliver night-kill to do the LYLO during night 5. The former is probably safer, though you would have to decide who between me and dave to jailkeep and announce it publicly or crumb it in some way in order for the solve in the event of your death to work.

VOTE: no lynch

[Rautherdir]

Actually, considering what we just learned from the moderator, it's possible every remaining player is town. The game doesn't end until every win condition is resolved, and right now the sliver win condition is unresolved (as both a sliver and a non-sliver are still alive). So, I'm going to assume that that is what is preventing the game from ending and VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Rautherdir]

New Site Rule:

DEB should be PL'd in every single game regardless. Switching sides willingly is bad enough an idea, but -also- doublecrossing me and Gamma was even worse. Fuck me if I trust you again even if you were a mod-confirmed IC

DEB only became Mafia in the simulated future where I shoot DEB (night 6 in most possible endgames.)
DEB was Town at the end of the day 5.

I'm fine with the Werewolf and Sliver PTs being released.

And finally, wow I didn't think for a while that I could pull this off.

[Rautherdir]

New Site Rule:

DEB should be PL'd in every single game regardless. Switching sides willingly is bad enough an idea, but -also- doublecrossing me and Gamma was even worse. Fuck me if I trust you again even if you were a mod-confirmed IC

DEB only became Mafia in the simulated future where I shoot DEB (night 6 in most possible endgames.)
DEB was Town at the end of the day 5.

This assumes that DEB doesn't use Friendly Neighbor the night I kill him though... So DEB could have also endgamed as town.

[Rautherdir]

New Site Rule:

DEB should be PL'd in every single game regardless. Switching sides willingly is bad enough an idea, but -also- double-crossing me and Gamma was even worse. Fuck me if I trust you again even if you were a mod-confirmed IC

I never intentionally switched sides. I just wanted to win no matter what so I went for the easy Sliver win at endgame. I very strongly felt if one of them was not Town it was Rauth, so in the end, I could've won Town the game, but that risked my win
I don't feel like I double-crossed you

Actually...
Even if you did choose to kill me there was a chance my Prism would block the kill.

[Rautherdir]

I very strongly felt if one of them was not Town it was Rauth, so in the end, I could've won Town the game, but that risked my win
I don't feel like I double-crossed you

Yes you did. I laid down a plan for you, dave and Gamma to follow. I said to lynch Rauth today. That would have still let you win, but you chose to backstab me and Gamma (I did a lot of solving and Gamma did a lot of action, and he could have chosen something different that could've won him the game but he stayed loyal.)

Next time don't send me the FN note cuz I won't acknowledge receiving it.

The mod told the Sliver thread that we needed to kill Gamma in order for slivers to win. Everyone involved played to their win condition. (And needing to kill Gamma was legit a surprise. I had previously though along with the rest of the slivers that slivers had already won.)

Also... I correctly stated that Gamma could have still been cult. When I said DEB was the only conf-town player on day 5 I meant it. (We never openly stated that Gamma could be cult before day 5 in case Gamma chose deathproof, bulletproof, or lynchproof to avoid getting killed after that.) No lynching and getting to a 3 person LYLO was the correct town play in that scenario. (And then the mod told the slivers we could guarantee victory by lynching Gamma, which DEB decided was better then a chance of winning as town. Kind of like how me and KidAmn were originally going to go for the Sliver win-con ourselves before KidAmn had to take Bingle's role instead of waiting for a Sliver to die. The whole thing where I said the slivers could have an extra player was crumbing that, actually.)

[Rautherdir]

Now that I think of it, the Prism wouldn't have blocked the kill, so yeah, town would have won.

With less then 5 players alive (and in LYLO) the sliver kill and heal must each be performed by a person. If I was only targeted by the kill then I had an (I believe) 7.5% chance of roleblocking the correct person. Every other action on me would increase the odds I roleblock the kill.

And I also had a decent amount of evidence that NMSA/davesaz was mafia, for example:
Night 1 after I suggested KidAmn for the heal, NMSA replied that we should heal within slivers. That night KidAmn was the Mafia kill.
Night 3 I 'jailkept' NMSA/davesaz and there was no Mafia kill. (Post game I can now reveal it was just a heal, and I didn't actually know who it targeted.)
Day 4 Temporal (knowing they were going to die) townread me and scumread dave. I believe Temporal had also previously scumread me and hadn't given a read on NMSA/davesaz

[Rautherdir]

I'm not talking about a night kill though, my bad for saying kill. Your prism wouldn't have stopped a lynch, which is how we would have tried to kill you. Not necessarily saying I would have been able to convince Gamma/Dave, but it was possible. Though if it wasn't for me you wouldn't have gotten the lynch off on Gamma.

I was originally going for a no lynch on day 5, actually. (I thought it was more likely for me to win in a scenario where there wasn't a lynch, due to the fact that Gamma would probably target me with jailkeep and proc my Prism ability.) After lynching Gamma, lynching me wouldn't have been an option. Since I had vision of the heal, then I also would know who wouldn't get healed, if you were healed I could just shoot dave, and in a scenario where we heal dave for some reason, I could just shoot you.

At the start of day 5 I was only trying to allow KidAmn to win, I thought my victory was guaranteed as a Sliver (Until it wasn't...)

Me and KidAmn possibly should have both outed Day 1 so we could orchestrate turning KidAmn into a sliver and then go for a joint town/Sliver victory. The joint town/Sliver win was actually our original plan. After KidAmn turned into a sliver we would have conceded the Werewolf victory to allow the joint with town to still happen even if one or both of us were still alive at the end of the game. But then KidAmn had to claim, and we couldn't save his graverob for a sliver death, and after that I decided to go for the Werewolf victory because it wouldn't be nice to abandon my partner just because I had another win condition. I honestly didn't think I would actually succeed for most of the game.

@Korina: Wouldn't it be safe to assume that DEB used their friendly neighbor ability the night they died in an endgame scenario? (Unless DEB wanted to switch sides)

p-edit:
You weren't conf-town Gamma. There was a very real chance in our minds that you picked bulletproof or deathproof instead of Saulus, and were still cult. (One of the reasons the night 3 kill could have gone missing is if it landed on you and you were bulletproof or deathproof instead of Saulus. And while there were other explanations for that kill going missing, they relied on the sliver heal being what stopped it, or my 'jailkeep' being what stopped it. Neither is compatible with me being mafia.)

[Rautherdir]

Ah thanks
There seems to be a lot of death stoppage lately

^ this.

[Rautherdir]

Ah thanks
There seems to be a lot of death stoppage lately

^ this.

Remember how I always said deathproof/bulletproof?
My reasoning was that you crumbed deathproof with that post, and may have gotten it downgraded to bulletproof by the mod. And before you point it out, we had no trustable confirmation for when you activated your crumbing ability. You could have just as easily said you did and then make the actual crumb later on in the day, when people were less likely to look for alternative crumbs from you.

This was never me making something up to get you lynched or shot, it was something I was legitimately worried about because you had one of the easily most overpowered scum roles in existence and my only hope for a werewolf victory was to downplay it and make you think you couldn't win with it, or after that day to prevent you from realizing that the slivers knew you weren't conf-town so that slivers could shoot you without you being bulletproof.

[Rautherdir]

Like, win condition wise Gamma cannot win as guiltied solo(?) cult, so... Gamma you're going to have to figure out how to be not cult and with your role you're in a unique position to do so.

I mean, this post was a blatant lie. You essentially had a guaranteed cult victory, and until you flipped I literally had no idea whether or not you were cult.

My plan at the start of day 5 was to no lynch and then get the sliver kill on you that night. The mod kind of interrupted that after noting that the Slivers couldn't win with Gamma still alive though...

Oh yeah, and the speed-lynching you was because if you hadn't actually targeted Temporal on night 4 and were still a crumber, we didn't want you to have a chance of getting lynchproof or deathproof. Speed-lynching you was the only way we could win in that scenario.

[Rautherdir]

Lol I was apologetic at first because I wasn't even thinking about the whole betrayal thing. I just saw the win and had my blinders on. But in retrospect I'm glad I did I love being the heel.

... I'm going to stop defending you now.

@Gamma:
Your first crumb was about the same level of vagueness. I never did ask the mod if that would have been accepted though, I just assumed it would be based on the fact your first crumb was accepted as what it was, and how your role was worded when you had flipped earlier.

p-edit
If you had stayed cult then making an act of wanting to be town was the best way to draw attention from another crumb, and deter other people considering that you might not be conf-town. Like I said I had no idea whether or not you were cult until you flipped, it was an occurrence to me that started to make more sense as more pieces of the puzzle were revealed to be out of place.

And Temporal, it's not all that overpowered for town. Scum can usually still endgame a deathproof townie.

p-edit 2
The slivers killed Temporal.

[Rautherdir]

yeah crumber is OP and idk if it should go to GIM...

if I rolled nostalgia trip I'd pick town medium from unstable mafia I guess...

The original incarnation of the role was NOT as OP. Firstly, I had to post crumbs constantly or risk punishment in the original game, and I had a PT to log them in. I also wasn’t given assurance of when or what power I would get. In addition all my picks were roles I had in the past. I just used Nostalgia Trip for the one with no way to replicate it through what GIM had to offer.

I was thinking a crumber that isn't something you have control over (but you'd still know which power you got and it otherwise works like the crumber here) would be an interesting very high power level role.

Ok this sounds interesting. Are you saying it doesn’t point out its crumbs, but instead the mod finds something that looks like a crumb and give them that ability?

That would probably be a lot better actually (considering scum can get the role as demonstrated in this game). The player could still guide it but it would probably have to be a lot more obvious if they did.

Or maybe whenever someone - that you don't have private communication with - posts (public or pt) that you may have claimed 'x' role, you gain that role's abilities for the next phase?

p-edit:
Shooting Temporal was a "let's end this game" thing where everyone just did it because the mood was that it didn't matter and we had won. Also, if we had shot anyone else it probably would have been you because again, we thought you might be cult, and you hadn't crumbed anything like bulletproof the previous day.
Throughout the game I was looking to see if you ever crumbed something that could be Leader, you hadn't. But I didn't know if you would want to or not. (Crumbing leader would be risky and could get you killed if someone noticed)
As for why no public alignment reveal, on day 4 Hectic needed to be dealt with; after ofhrz flipped I realized deathproof scum might be possible with two players that could bypass it (you and ofhrz. I did think Hectic was deathproof mafia or that Hectic was lynchproof and Temporal was a mafia doctor). I would have had you do it day 5 but Temporal was Indigo goo so you were either no longer a crumber or you were cult.

[Rautherdir]

^ In addition to two players that could bypass deathproof, there was a player who could revive either of those players (Pisskop) and a player who could take one of those roles should one of them die (KidAmn)

<sudden realization>

@Korina: If KidAmn had graverobbed pisskop, would revived players have been cult, werewolf, or had no alignment change?

p-edit:
I would have either won that night, or be in a situation where it was impossible for me to get a werewolf win. As such I wasn't really worried about you changing your alignment again.

[Rautherdir]

(Or, you know, just gone for a joint town/sliver victory. Like the werewolves' original plan for victory. Me and KidAmn really should have just outed day 1 that we could do that, this game would have been like ten times less stressful for me if we had.)

[Rautherdir]

Also, just going to point out that I was guiltied from night 1 onwards. I had heavily softed neighbors with KidAmn and KidAmn didn't flip as a neighbor. (And I literally straight up claimed it in the Slivers thread. I have no idea why no one ever brought that up.)

[Rautherdir]

Go ahead and blame DEB or the mod if you want, but I should have been dead night 2 at the latest. Kind of everyone's fault for not noticing that.

[Rautherdir]

It wasn't a comment. It was a response to davesaz asking if the slivers had won. (Everyone else had assumed we had because of majority, dave didn't know that and asked Korina, then Korina replied that we haven't, there was at least one non-sliver [you] alive.)

[Rautherdir]

Yeah, kill gamma was my spin on it.

[Rautherdir]

(Yeah, I probably should have clarified that better since it was post-game)

Also, who was it that said there couldn't be Werewolves in the slivers on day 2? Thanks for giving me the slightest possibility of actually getting a werewolf victory. (The alternative to the logic you used was that werewolves didn't have a kill, but I wasn't about to point that out.)

[Rautherdir]

(Yeah, I probably should have clarified that better since it was post-game)

Also, who was it that said there couldn't be Werewolves in the slivers on day 2? Thanks for giving me the slightest possibility of actually getting a werewolf victory. (The alternative to the logic you used was that werewolves didn't have a kill, but I wasn't about to point that out.)

On day 2 Almost50 said I couldn't be Mafia, then later also said the slivers can't have a werewolf. And you wondered why people didn't listen to you asking for my death...