Micro 892 Mafia PT

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AWWWW YISSSSSSS

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I am so glad I rolled Mafia with you, you have no idea

Also, nope haha, bog standard

So we can assume that there’s a neighbour

Might wanna consider claiming friendly neighbour with me in 5p lylo if we’re well set up for it

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I will probably crumb something but in a very subtle way

I think after last game you could also 100% get away with claiming to have neighbouriser me later

You’d have to trust that you could win the 1v1 tho bc claiming a neighbouriser who then got flipped would lose ya the game when I backed up being in a neighbourhood with you

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Lol now you’re gonna see how terrible at scum I actually an

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Who have you played with before here? I’ve played with klick, chemist, and icon

Icon is a good mislynch but I don’t want it to come from us if possible

Chem is also a good mislynch

Can’t remember klick’s play that well

Also I think heaven may be an alt but unsure

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Oh yeah I think I played once with Chem but we don't talk about that game

Lmao what happened? Also yes I am a basic goon

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Oh you got RC wrecked? That happens. He absolutely ailed me as scum the first time I played with him but we killed him N1

I think quite likely? So you could also just claim your actual role

But try to crumb in a way that leaves both open I think

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I don’t think I’d worry too much about trying to get icon to TR you, he’s mislynch bait and I think if he does end up SRing you you can always try the “you always do this, my behaviour isn’t NAI and you should know better by now”

Thoughts on klick?

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TL, are we allowed redactions?

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I will probably end up trying to town lead because that’s my town game

You should potentially TR me for it based on our last game?

But most of all just keep natural to what you’d think as town as much as possible

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I mean I think you can crumb anything if you’re smart enough about it

So long as it’s well done then I don’t think town are liable to notice what’s being done , and they’ll prob miss crumbs for anything else

So you could crumb multiple things so long as it flows naturally or is well hidden

Worst case scenario if town notices two crumbs then you either outright declare you wanted to fakeclaim omas a gambit or you claim coincidence

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I’m wondering if they have an existing neighbourhood at start of day or just a neighboriser or both

I think we might be able to spot the neighbours in which case we probably wanna kill them unless we get added because I think people in neighbourhoods do tend towards TLs on each other

So if we’re in the neighbourhood it’s beneficial but if we’re not then it’ll prob be a bit harder to get either person to lynch the other

That also makes me think that again, unless we get added, it’s prob easiest if you just crumb neighbour enabler (prob just enough to crumb something to do with neighbourhoods, I think town would not wanna make it overly obvious what their specific role was, so they’d allude to the general power but maybe not the enabler part)

Or you could crumb something to do with neighbourhoods somewhere and something to do with enabling elsewhere

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I think neighbour hunting is a good move because if we think their game is weak we might just wanna try to keep them alive, kill off more confident players and then bring someone unsure into 5p lylo and try to get them to vote the others first

But again, that would be win or lose because a flip in 5p lylo basically confirms the others

So I would lean towards neighbour hunt and then kill

I think town may be pretty low on power based on our lack of power

And I think that our long term gameplan is probably similar to the one from you and korina: to set the associatives so that if I take a lot of heat setting a particular mislynch then you’re in a position to win for us in 3p

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I don’t think town neighbour enabler is ever likely to majorly backfire

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It’s just gonna be viewed as gating the neighbours I think, so I doubt they’d find it weird unless they were speculating about a lot of scum power or something

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Either way I don’t think you wanna crumb anything right out of the gate, it’s easier to throw in midway through D1 maybe in an analysis heavy post where people are more likely to miss it

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Oh fuck not 5p lylo bussing

My heart can't take that again

I mean only if we think we won’t win the 5p lylo outright

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Lmao if I now get insta lynched D1

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Also if I'm gonna be fakeclaiming i need to set up some stupid crumbs because Icon knows how much I love stupid crumbs

Define stupid crumbs btw

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I'm actually pretty nervous because these seem like good players? But that probably means they can smell fear and that is bad

I mean I don’t know anyone by reputation so I’m not overly worried about that?

Plus we have two players who are known for being mislynchable/lazy so that seems like a good start

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I may RVS you, would that bother you?

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Oh man, those are good crumbs

I dig it

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So RVS: there can be people thinking that buddies might to soft distancing early on so that’s a mild risk

But I tend to RVS whoever I like the most/have the best chemistry with unless I think of a joke

Tbf i have a good (read: incredibly bad) one for icon and I’ve also played with him so I might use that again if you’d prefer

I don’t think anyone here is ‘up’ enough on my meta to wonder why I wouldn’t vote you

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Tbh I was just thinking of like... Spelling you the word "neighbor" in like... The firat letter of the last word of my posts
Andnrhen spelling enabler later on somewhere

Yeah I like this if you can keep the posts sounding natural m, which I think you csn

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Like if you were planning on saying something like "haha datisi are you scum again" I'd rather not
But if referencing past games is your thing and not doing that would be even more sus then do it

See, the thing is this is almost certainly what I’d do as town

But fortunately I really doubt anyone here knows me well enough to know that’s almost certainly what I’d do as town

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Like that’s almost verbatim what I was planning to say ahahaha

I was thinking of something like

“VOTE: datisi

did u roll scum again?”

Before I even knew we were scum together

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My ico intro is “vote VOTE: ico for an iconic day one lynch”

But he might see that as slightly too explicit a reference to our last game together and see it as pockety because of that

It’s also an excellent 1shot vig crumb tho, just in case I ever needed to use that claim

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Probably with “iconic” in italics or bolded

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I mean we could discuss what you’d answer here

But I’m also very okay with the ico one because I made that joke twice last game with him and i DIDNOT feel it got the play it deservwd

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What do you mean? Like you agree he might see it as pockety or you don’t think he would?

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Cool, then I doubt he’d read it that way

Datisi, I’m gonna wanna interact with you a lot in thread btw and in gonna need you to try and do it as much as possible

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Like we can try and work around it if you really don’t like it but my go to thing (which anyone will see if they even caguely meta me) is that I go straight for people I’ve played with before in new games

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Yes, ofc, I normally have the opposite problem of my scum buddies not being talkative enough for me

Oh, I also may not vote you if I’m late to te RVS party and there’s something else to comment on/vote in relation to

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So, I don’t think trying to form a townbloc is a good idea because I think they tend much more to just emerge naturally

If we both do a good job and wanna avoid bussing an dfocus on scumhunting then one may very well emerge

But I think trying to curate the creation of a townbloc is something that is often scum read, certainly it’s something that would ping me

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You’ll be fine, you absolutely nailed it last time remember?

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Also, idk if you know this but it’s prob best to avoid nullreading each other as much as possible

So put me towards the top of your townreads or the bottom of your scumreads once there’s some content but don’t pop me in the middle

I think people tend towards scunreading me early game then shift to TRing me as time goes on/as I effort the game more, if you wanna know what I think typical town trajectories are on me when I’m town

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You’re not gonna be lynched D1 shhh:P

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Ugh that’s actually kind of an annoying habit for him to. have in a micro

Because I think he’s rarely the top priority scum kill in a townblco because he’s mislynchable, but if he did perceive us as such then it would raise questions how we all 3 got to lylo

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Last game I was particularly towny from early on imo, because I was pushed into being towny from early due to korina’s bad faith push

If there’s no pressure I normally just start off shitpsiting a bit then doing reads without loads of explanation and when pressure comes finally towning it up a lot

I think I can also try to produce more content from early on tho if I’m motivated

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I kinda wanna try to lead town into mislynches and then justify me still being alive as scum choosing to let me take the heat for leading the lynches while keeping their hands clesn

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Oh man I gotta sleep lol

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*make one post*

"oh god they

know

"

Also, you think we'll have the Mafia PT longer than the main game this time?

This is the goal

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Wait did you crumb? I didn’t see it

Which is good

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Really good response to ico, I think the town response is scepticism to him pushing you and him as town and I think that may have been a trsp

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Like I think it was bait but if it was genuine then not taking it prob just makes you even townier in his eyes

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Ugh I lowkey hate scum atm

I just like people so it makes it less fun trying to trick them and deliberately mislead them

I think the only thing that’s gonna keep me energised this game will be you

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On the upside, seems like there may be several people who strong push stuff which means that so long as we’re not lynched we can definitely explain not being the NK given their presence in the gane

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I like dong’s entrance, but I’ll prob come round to a TR there a lil slowly

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Also, don’t panic about me calling you out as good scum, it’s natural and it doesn’t stop me getting to a TR on you later if you keep playing like you are, TRing someone who I think is good as scum albeit with lots of paranoia is normal for me

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I think the only thing that’s gonna keep me energised this game will be you

Awwww I missed this the first time

I'm sorry if you don't like playing scum, but I'll try my best to keep thr spirits up at least

It’s weird, like when I started I really wanted to roll scum because I liked the idea of fooling people and not having the stress of trying to solve because I already had all the info

But now that it’s been a few months I don’t really enjoy misrepping people I like/respect which makes it a lot harder for me to be scum, and although I’m still not what I’d consider a ‘good’ player I do think my ability to read has improved a lot and so I enjoy trying to solve a lot more — like there was a point where I didn’t understand people who said their favourite role is VT but now I totally do, as that means you can just focus on trying to figure out the game and don’t have to think nearly as much about your own behaviour and how it’s coming across

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I don’t think the spotlight is on you so much as it’s on people reading you, so klick and ico

Let’s try to keep it there, discuss ico a bit more

Chem is unlikely to do that much (sorry if you’re reading this chem, but you know it’s true) on D1 so he’s a good option for a compromise lynch if no one is standing out as a good lynch target later in the day

Right now my thoughts are that klick/bella might be good options for that

Dong seems competent from initial impressions, good nk probably, although I think icon may well have softed neighbour/neighbouriser so if that’s true then we probably just kill him N1?

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I think probably the best thing for you to do is ignore us talking about whether people are TRing you too early and just keep focusing on sorting people

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I mean go with what you think town!datisi would do, I trust you

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Just try not to focus too much on it

Also I think we might just wanna kill him because there’s the possibility of friendly neighbour which would give him a conf!scum on you if he did do that I think

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But yeah, we can set up spec more later, it’s not overly important atm I think

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Mostly I think if both of our ISOs are full of us looking like we’re sorting/solving/progressing the game we have a good chance of winning here

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I don't trust myself tho

Also are you confusing friendly neighbor with loyal neighbouriser?

.....maybe

I’m really bad at remembering what roles do okay, don’t judge me

Whats a friendly neighbour do?

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Oh okay, well either way I think that’s something we want dead

And yeah, I think dong might lowkey SR me for softing the idea of mislynching ico there

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Okay hope classes are alright catch you later don’t die from lack of sleep pls

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I think chem mindmelding me is quite natural, I think my thoughts on you/klick/ico are a good imitation of where my hea would be at as town so I can see chem having similar thoughts and thinking he’s mindmelding me based on that

But is also let’s me push being worried about him buddying me later if I want to, which is useful

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Checking in real fast before I go to a movie, haven’t read the main thread

I think one thing we need to think about is lylo. I think a long term game plan is important, and we should work towards that. So we pick a townie who we think will vote another townie in lylo and then our entire game is getting to lylo with both of them there with us

That then dictates NKs, actions in thread etc

So if one good option is to bring one of klick/Bella to lylo, and we think song might vote them, then the play is to subtle buddy dong during D1 and 2 and push lynched on people who aren’t contributing

I’m not 100% that’s the plan, but I certainly think it’s viable.

As the thread picks up, we should figure out where we ideally wanna go long term tho, and then drive the game that direction. Of course, no guarantees, because mechanical stuff can always screw us, maybe we can’t get the lynches we want, but I still think win percentage goes way up when you know where you’re going and everything you do in thread is aimed toward that goal

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Will you be on later? We could jam after the movie and figure out where we’re going with all this

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I might do a bit of apex too though

Guess who just unlocked caustic?

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Sorry, I had a bit of day of feeling sorry for myself and being down because I haven’t been doing any productive shit and before I move countries I always wonder wtf I’m doing with my life lol

I’m prob not really gonna be around in thread tonight because it’s effort playing scum and I can’t focus properly

Also I’m a lil drunk rn

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I kinda was thinking dong might be doable as a lynch today?

Like he’s not coming across as a really strong player who we couldn’t get a compromise lynch onto imo

And going there also isn’t us looking scummyby going for someone easier to lynch, so that looks good for us too

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I think dong is fine for me to push because it (1) sets doubts in people’s minds (2) so long as he thinks my logic is consistent and that I’m in good faith (which I kind of am, I do think those posts were bad?) probably ends up TRing me for the push even if I have to move off it because he’s not viable (3) it lets us know how viable he may be in the future. If others hop on, then he’s plausible. If they don’t, then we know the TRs are good enough at the moment to maybe NK him

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I think it’s odd to say that a page 8 readslist is bad in general, but then say “oh no, just if it doesn’t have explanations”

Because I’ll often do an early readslist as town, but I won’t bother to explain the whole thing until people ask me. Plus it’s jusy good for tracking reads progressions throughout the game and if they make sense. So I genuinely disagree with dong which I think will make me SRing him look authentic

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Why? If it exists, all it does is gate the town. Like, in a larger game, I might be more suspicious, but in a micro I think it’s pretty safe tbh.

Idk if I bother crumbing or not. I’m kinda feeling lazy which makes me not want to, but I could always crumb a doc just in case, that’s a fairly safe scum claim.

I think I’d like to kill ico N1 then probably klick N2 unless someone else better emerges

I increasingly think ico needs to die because he knows us best of everyone here. But ideally he’s TRing us by end of day. The only thing is that if someone emerges as being good at leading town they might overtake him as a priority.

I wanna keep chem alive because he’s a possible mislynch and he doesn’t know my game that well I don’t think?

So really it’s dexising between who we wanna lynch/buddy out of Bella/klick/dong/Locke/heaven that’s important

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I mean go ahead and call me out if you think my post is me misunderstanding, that prob looks good for you esp if we flip dong as town today

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I would like to do dong today if reasonably possible

I think chem is a good option for our lylo mislynch. he generally doesn't effort that much in games, so it's plausible we can spin that as being lazy scum chem, esp if he's on the wrong side of a mislynch.

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bringing Bella could be nice, in which case we need to decide on the final. maybe heaven?

I could see Locke being the mislynch for today if we don't get dong. but I think we benefit a lot from getting dong because I'd really like klick gone before lylo as well, so we need to mislynch one of the two, and I'd rather it be dong because I think given the irl relationship dynamic between klick and Bella she might react more strongly negatively to anyone who pushes a mislynch there once he's flipped town.

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also, I'm gonna ignore your contribution on trying to clear up the 'misunderstanding', okay? I think town me would push that as lamist but I don't wanna draw any attention to you for it esp when the focus should be on dong for a minute now

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I think it’s fine tbh, you can always reconsider your read on him if he responds badly to the pressure and it’ll look natural

I think Vca is pretty trash mostly, because the meta around it is known and therefore easy to manipulate. So I don’t think we really have a problem with you being on or off the final wagon, or on early or late because there’s always a reasonable alternative explanation for wagon positioning

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We only need to worry about vca if the others in the game put a LOT of stock into it, imo

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Yeah I don’t love low activity games either — just spam me here! Apathy in the game is generally beneficial for scum so long as we’re not on the lynch train. In my first scumgame I remember asking my partner if we should reinvigorate the game for town points, but he said he thought apathy was more beneficial than the town points.

But also, things are still getting started, this feels like a normal lull. I think there are good odds dong and I have a bit of a thing, which will get things going

Idk if I do have a better handle on it than you? I’m like a page behind haha, I’ve only really read the dong bit, no idea re:bella/klick really

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Just remember to be chill and that we’re not on the radar rn for anyone

Like even dong wasn’t reading my critique of his posts there as scummy, he just dismissed it as drunk!logic

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Uhhhhhhh
Why
I forget how crappily playing scum can feel

I was just about to come here to post this. Like the objectively right move is prob to play on dong’s emotional state to get people to SR the validity of what he’s saying. But I’m not willing to cross that line, so I’m forced to just acknowledge it and respond in a way that doesn’t help my wincon but I don’t really have another choice?

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What’s up, school?

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I think that it’s unlikely that you’re an enabler for something that doesn’t exist in game, mostly because then scum seems kinda underpowered if there’s any reasonable town power at all

So, here’s what I’m thinking. Chem would be easy to do probably, but that makes him low hanging fruit, which is not what we wanna look like we’re aiming for. So I’m thinking of white knighting chem and pushing dong as bad for his response unless it’s really, really good. If not, then heaven is a good compromise slot, although icon would be even better if we could do him.

But we should pick soon here, and start guiding the lynch because we only have 3-4 days, didn’t notice how short deadlines were on this game aha

Hope you’re feeling better today datisi

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I don’t think we wanna /over/ speculate about PRs, but I’ll leave that mostly to you. Icon is my best guess atm, it fits with early activity, a possible soft, and him being much more passive/staying out of the spotlight here

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So I think we just kill people who are likely to be detrimental to getting to 5p lylo and then voting a townie over one of us, and I think dong is probably one of those people

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Waiting for you to respond to long term strat before I post in main thread to make sure I’m pushing an agenda we agree on

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So, here’s what I’m thinking. Chem would be easy to do probably, but that makes him low hanging fruit, which is not what we wanna look like we’re aiming for. So I’m thinking of white knighting chem and pushing dong as bad for his response unless it’s really, really good. If not, then heaven is a good compromise slot, although icon would be even better if we could do him.

But we should pick soon here, and start guiding the lynch because we only have 3-4 days, didn’t notice how short deadlines were on this game aha

This is all on the topic of D1 lynch right?

Correctaroony

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I can pressure icon, dong, or chem easily but I think we gain me from me WKing chem than from me getting him lynced

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You need to explain what it is about icon’s early content that made you TR him and then we can argue about it

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I’m trying to sow some doubt in klick’s mind about dong. Remember, town has good reasons to be paranoid about almost everyone else, we need to play off that

I think there’s a really good post by mastina somewhere on probability va possibility, basically arguing that while town live in the world of the probable (thinking: “yes, scum could have done almost anything, but what, given this particular context, are they actually

most likely

to do?”) while scum live in the world of possibility, trying to get town to think about unlikely situations that play on town paranoia (making town think: “hmmm, but what if mena is right and that cop VT clear is actually because the person is a godfather!”)

So I think this is a good mindset to approach people TRing people we wanna lynch. It’s not necessarily about forcing it through, it’s about encouraging it by pointing out the scummy things the person has done (we all do scummy things) and encouraging paranoia about the signs that the person is actually town

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Doesnt have to be rn, but do you think town!yo would just let me shade your icon read without you saying anything to me about it?

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Oh I forgot I’d linked it in 1949 lmao

Hmm, I’m not sure I agree with that. I think trying to craft your actions to what others think town!yiu would do is difficult because (1) it makes it harder to explain how you’ve been thinking throughout the game when questioned. If it’s coming from what you think you’d do, fuck the others, then it’s easy to show how you’ve changed and developed in response to the circumstances and I think that gets TR far more often than not. And (2) it’s really hard to predict why the others think town!you would do.

So I’d say just imagine you were actually trying to solve/sort, would you be worried about being called a WK or about being pressured?

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Yeah, go ahead and call me on it, I can explain it

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Sure, sounds good, although I’m going for drinks with friends so can’t promise I’ll be around a lot tonight

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Spoiler: uhhhh

Icon, he was around early game and then kinda disappeared? So I feel like that could have been busy work trying to get himself credit for the activity even while I don’t think a lot of his play was really driving the game forward. On the flip side, icon has a rep for being mislynch bait and that makes me hesitant, plus in my only encounter with scum!icon he was trying a lot harder to actively create a fucked up gamestate whereas here he’s just,.. not here?

Now I think about it. I don’t love ... datisi having him in “do not lynch” based on the content he’s provided so far

This is such crappy reasoning? Real life happens, hell, you started off strong then dissapeared for a while. And he does have some fluff posts, but I feel like him trying to sort is evident? Then in the same breath you call him possible mislynch bait and say this game doesn't fit the scum meta you've seen from him.

alright, that's cool. How much time we got to work with here?

This can work but if you TR me I’d maybe phrase it slightly more softly? But it can work like this, just bear in mind it’ll mean I have to come back at you with slightly more aggro

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I'm personally scumreading him a lot right now

welcome to the panic room

♪ ♫

where all your darkest fears are gonna come for you

♬♩

We don’t need to panic about this unless dong shows he can actually build a wagon, last time I looked it was just him on me and I like my odds in a 1v1

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I’m gonna hard push dong tomorrow

We’re probably gonna need you on wagon too to make it happen

I think chem /probably/ votes with us, so we need two more

Klick isn’t looking like he will but I’m not sure he’ll vote me either

Bella seems to have some doubts re: me but it could just be because I haven’t posted that much content so me engaging dong will bring her back on side

Icon isn’t here so idk about him

So we prob need one of Locke/heaven or ideally both to get on the dong wagon to make him go theough

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I think his pushback is quite bad and OMGUSy though, so I think I’ve got old odds of winning this

May just get us both TR so long as it’s not obvious I’m pushing in bad faith, but in that case we can just kill him

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But yeah, most significant thing is if he can get a wagon going. If he can’t, he’s not a threat

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You’re adorable

I nearly lost my passport lmao (as in it was lost but we found it)

Was super busy packing and goodbyes so haven’t properly checked the site all day

Will be back properly prob tomorrow or Monday?

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Am I wrong in thinking that dong looks awful for his response here?

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It's hard to see it from outside my own perspective, but I really feel like this reaction is straight bad

It's unfortunate chem is the first person to back it being bad tho

On the upside, if dong does manage to get any traction then kill dong obviously and push chem D2. I don't think I will, because again, he doesn't seem to be persuading anyone really. But in case this does pick up steam I'm not gonna have time to manage it which means I might lose if it turns into a fully fledged 1v1

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Hi so just to make sure we’re on the same page:

His readslist is entirely plausibly a reaction test, don’t just take it as it sits

Also, I assume we’re both on the same page that he absolutely always needs to die tonight

Because if he isn’t actually TRing me and he takes dong’s side tomorrow he actually can build a wagon and I don’t have enough people hard TRing me to not get lynched

I think optimal here is to just lynch chem kill kori lynch dong kill klick then push ico in lylo

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You’re gonna need to engage him a lot because he knows that scum!you will be just as paranoid about him as you are and that you’ll probably be avoidant if that’s the case

So drown him in interaction but in a way that it’s not obvious that you’re just defying meta

I haven’t figured out a plan yet but I probs will talk to him about being nul!town on dong

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I haven’t figured out a plan yet but I probs will talk to him about being nul!town on dong

Oh yeah, I had a vague idea of "something something says he's SRing Locke but not voting says thinks Chem is Town but ok on lynching" but uhhh

Wait who does?

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Tbh not yet sure about the Klick kill, but all in due time

I think klick is prob the most towny player atm and so killing him (1) locks us in as town if he’s still reading that way by the end of D2

But also the fact that he’s p obv town means he’s likely to be harder to lynch

Plus he’s more familiar with me at least than Bella or Locke

So while I’m happy to talk about it esp as the game develops, I do think he’s the best option for a N2 kill as things stand and that will influence how we play things if we’re planning to get Bella or Locke to vote ico in lylo

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Oh I kinda just skimmed his reads, I just think he needs to die because he’s familiar with my meta and he’s very familiar (26 pages familiar) with you!scum

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Right so we play against the coaching

I don’t really wanna have to try and figure out what kori m’a genuine reads are, so the important thing is that we keep him thinking that even if we’re scum we won’t kill him tonight so that his professed reads on us are town even if they’re not

Also I gotta sleep now, I’ll catch you tomorrow

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Well, it looks like we can do icon today plausibly, although I’m not certain that klick’s actually sold on that or if he’s fishing to see what I do re: dong

I’m inclined to just back it though

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also dong keeps ignoring my questions regarding chem and klick and i dunno how to feel about it? Am i missing something there?

Get on him for being avoidant

I wanna get dong done today and I think we can

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And yes on asking kori why he isn’t voting probably

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maybe something like "well if nobody wants to do dong I'm fine with ico lynch"?

but yeah not sure what Klick's actual intentions are here. I'd say he's being honest but probably don't listen to me

I think this sounds too down for whatever

Imo you need to make it look like you’re doing whatever you can to make the lynch you want happen, bc that’s what town would do (well, imo) so if it looks like you’re just coasting along with popular opinion then that’s gonna get SR normally

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Get on him for being avoidant

This means
Vote or just ask?
Too early to vote i think?

Imo you could do both

Like say that you don’t like his most recent posting because you think it’s shit, mention that you don’t like his more avoiding your questions, if you’re TRing me rn (can’t remember) then you can say that you think I’m right and it’s SvT — and all that is plenty of reason to make a votr

It’s a bit risky but people probably won’t assume that both scum would get on early, plus you joining me early is actually support for us if we claim neighbours later in the game

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That was for you not for me
I'm officially TRing Icon

Ohhhh lol well I went for similar

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And now

We hope that chem/kori go for the dong wagon

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What the everloving fuck are dong's most recent posts
Like what is that

Things that if they fail to be SR then we’re prob fucked bc I have no idea how to understand this town

Like my only explanation for seeing dong town at this point is TSTBS

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Hmmm, it could be that they’re masons but that you enable their PT? But then I would think it would be like masonry enabler, but maybe letting us know there were masons in the game would be too much as there’s no way there’d be a masoniser in a micro imo that’s too muc town power but there could be a neighboriser/friendly neighbour/odd or even night loyal neighbouriser so giving scum the neighbourhood enabler is a check on town power but doesn’t leave scum AS informed as masonry enabler would

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They could be loyal neighbours which is basically masons

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I’m shit at setup spec but my guess is loyal neighbours + maybe an odd or even night neighbouriser which fits all of them going down if you get lynched

This does fuck us up quite a lot though

I’m inclined to believe it with icon’s play + soft super early, plus how ridiculous reckless dong’s play has been

Even claiming masons when you’re regular neighbours prob gets you lynched D2 because you lied about the loyal modifier and one is always gonna end up flipped

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We have to kill dong N1 now probably

So we need to reconsider who we’re bringing to lylo if I’m even alive for that, or if not then we need to think about who’s going to 3p lylo with you and how to set you up as well as possible because I don’t think I make it to 3p lylo any way in hell, and I kinda think I might even die today

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He shouldn’t have outed himself as the other mason tbh, but maybe he panicked about the L-1?

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I think we just gon have to play against kori

Tbf like I said I may well die today if I can’t sell dong on me just having been tunnelled on him, in which case you’d have the chance to kill kori before lylo anyway in a situation where we were in with a shot of winning

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I think dong MUST have some kind of PT with icon at least

Maybe best case scenario is we lynch chem (which is now going to look worryingly like tmi from me when he flips town but we’re in it now) kill dong or icon and hope that the flip is just regular neighbour

Because I’m thinking the only way they’re not loyal neighbours/masons is if they’re just really really sold on the other being town and they’re gambitting to avoid the lynch today/hoping to get a lynch on scum today that will conf the other once the first flips normal neighbouriser

The only other thing I can think of is maybe they’re loyal neighbours + neighbouriser? But that seems OP because they get a conf!guilty/inno each noght

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what the fuck, I somehow missed that post entirely?

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are you serious.

I thought page 18 was page 17 or something. like I thought I was reading on from last night when I was reading 18 lmao

maybe there are two sets of neighbours?

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oh, btw, got any advice for responding to klick there? like i was thinking to ignore that post tbh
but uhhhhh
what is happening

where he SRs you for not being involved in what he thinks is a TvT? not sure rn but I'll try and think about it quickly

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also I have no idea what to do here

like if town isn't gonna lynch someone who fakeclaimed masons and self voted

then I just honestly have no idea

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idk what this game is but yeah stay on

deadline pressure may well mean that the largest wagon is the one that goes so we need the votes

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oh, btw, got any advice for responding to klick there? like i was thinking to ignore that post tbh
but uhhhhh
what is happening

where he SRs you for not being involved in what he thinks is a TvT? not sure rn but I'll try and think about it quickly

ye i meant that
like its within my towngame to ignore shit like that
but it's giving me worry for later

you could even say you just missed it in the me/dong stuff

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god, if we do get dong today then me not getting lynched tomorrow is gonna be a FUCKING STRUGGLE let me tell you right now

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God I fucking hate rolling scum dats

You’re like the only thing making this game bearable

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Tbf a lot of this game is stuff I don’t like about mafia in general

Like, yes, anti-town stuff can come from town. But if you actually think that it’s anti-town you should lynch it every fucking time because it’s going against wincon

Like what, would I be doing better this game if I’d just fucking trolled for like 18 pages? Because that’s honestly the impression I’m getting

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Actually, that post is probably quite god to make in thread with a light bit of editing

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Hahahhaa, omg, I’m so glad you’re my partner

This is such a shitshow of a game

What do you think of this

“Seriously, step the fuck up and make a decision, that’s to everyone who’s not on me/dong

If town is just gonna go “yup, personality type, all that anti-town bullshit is forgiven” then we deserve to fucking lose and that’s a fact

But if you think dong is townier than me now then you’re gonna think that in lylo when we both inevitably end up there if we don’t do one of us today

And if you do think dong is townier than me today then we’re gonna lose fucking anyway because this town is apparently incapable of not buying into TSTBS”

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Dats, if I do die today, promise me that

(1) you keep posting here so I can read along with what you’re thinking about even if I can’t reply

(2) you play your little heart out and never ever concede this game

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Also, I think I’m gonna post a final readslist as if I might die

And it’ll be roughly:

Icon/dats
Chem
VV
Klick
Locke/bella
Dong

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i think that you've already kinda created the dichotomy already tho

i think pushing this further rn would only make you seem more defensive

Okay I’ll hold off but doing what I would consider good play seems to be losing to “dong bad” being represented as my argument over and over and over again so I kinda feel like maybe worrying about seeming overly defensive doesn’t matter with this playerlist?

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sure, but not yet
makes it look like you've given up i think?

Honestly if town me is being consistent then I basically have given how everyone is ignoring my dong read and saying that if it comes down to it they’d rather vote me

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Also, if I get lynched I kinda wanna make a twilight post that’s (semi-fake) raging at the game where I say something along the lines of “and thanks a fucking bunch to my partner for not being able to resist bussing in the end”

Not those exact words, but eh

It’s wifom, certainly, but it might help?

Honestly, I do think scum lynched on D1 are almost always losing for scum in micros so I figure stirring up a bunch of wifom is something I may as well do

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idk, if town!you thing here is give up
then don't

I'm gonna be shitting out reasons to TR you here if more votes pile on you
like "y does scum mena go into this shit knowing he'll lose"

and idk like this playerlist is whatever i don't even know. just take everything i say with a grain of salt, i'm really not as good as you make me out to be

I mean spiritually give up kinda

Like, I strongly believe that at its core mafia is a p simple game

As town:

(1) don’t get mislynched
(2) lynch scum

So town!me never really gives up (apart from highly tilted self-votes occasionally) because that goes against point (1)

But if I think I’m getting mislynched and can’t stop it then I can just keep trying to push my reads but with the attitude that I’ll be conf!town soon which is kinda defeatist bc it assumes the lynch

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uhhhh, i really don't know what's the "optimal" play for scum after they get hammered
like part of me is paranoid that whatever you say regarding your "partner" they'll be able to connect with me but i also feel most of the town is just gonna ignore it anyway

also in case it comes down to it
who do i kill tonight?

That’s actually kinda tricky

If dong has a SR on you then probably dong as he’s active in the game and is p much conf!town on my flip + is maybe softing loyal neighbouriser?

So yeah almost certainly dong

Then I’d prob bring someone SRing you to 3p lylo if possible (maybe Bella?) and maybe chem or something

Probably need to sheep klick on Locke D2 and get that done, then kill klick N2

Finally it’s tricky, I think you’d need to lynch kori and kill icon. You could bring icon to 3p lylo if you thought he was much more likely to vote Bella/chem than you but I think generally scum suffer from having conf!town in 3p lylo bc it cuts down their options so much

I think Bella is a good option bc you can argue she’s been trying to set you up from today as her fall girl in lylo

Also I haven’t really interacted with her so you can put that as maybe scum indicative from me not being sure how to interact with my partner

Alternatively chem would be an option as you could suggest my defence of him was of a partner not of a townie I was trying to pocket

If chem gets lynched tomorrow for that reason probably bring Locke/Bella if possible to 3p lylo

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tbh i really wanna reply to klick along the lines of "how is it opportunistic when only mena was on wagon and the game seems to think he's voteworthy" or something

maybe add a "if i was scum with both of them town i'd be lynching mena, 1) because it's way easier and 2) because scum!me was terrified of him in 1949 and i'd want him gone here"

like flat out fucking saying "yes hello i am a partner to this man"

because fucking shit apparently that's how this game goes

I like this plan

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okay soooo
mena - dong, icon, bella?, klick?
dong - dats, mena, korina, chem?

bruh is locke gonna be deciding this shit???
or is there gonna be a third wagon??? stay tuned

I might suggest pivoting to Locke to klick bc of the fact that it’s better to lynch him than me bc I’m town

Plus that gives us night to do planning

But if Locke votes dong then game on

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Also, I should sleep too

I just really don’t wanna get hammered in my sleep and have the thread closed before I can wifon

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Also also guess how far I am from Zagreb now that I’ve moved to France? Also I may be passing through in a couple of weeks as I’m planning to go to bosnia to visit a friend

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Like from town!me POV

I think that even if I get mislynched with dong as my top SR that town is incompetent enough to not lynch him D2

So if multiple people are saying that they TR me but would still rather lynch me than dong if forced to, then for town!me it makes sense to compromise on not doing dong today if that’s what it takes to not be mislynched, even if I’m unhappy about it

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I can do that

But I think they have enough mislynches that they’ll just lynch you tomorrow to get rid of the WIFOM
Whereas making a comment about my buddy not being able to avoid bussing wifoms a greater number so they can’t afford to just lynch through everyone on/off wagon to see if it’s true

It just increases general paranoia, and should be ignored — but the way town has played I think it probably wouldn’t be
M

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Yeah, that is true, they do have 2 mislynches to spare
I mean you can comment that as well

Did you just sign your post?

....

I was very tired

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Also we only need one more

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Hmm, I like that point about icon

Also, I think double down on dong? Yes he probably SRs you for it but you can just call it OMGUS later in the game

Or you can always just not go on the thread for the rest of the day and claim you were busy

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If you do address it you could ask why icon is talking to me like I’m town (“why does scum fakeclaim here?”) while simultaneously voting me

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Sorry, chem

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I think it’s time to think about 5p lylo and who we’d want there

I think the ideal might be something like klick, Bella, locke rn

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Hi hi

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So in that case we’d need to lynch one of dong, icon, kori

Of those three, the best odds of a lynch are still dong I think, at least given my/your progression

Normally, I think that this should be simple. Dong has been crazy scummy, and has just quickhammered town, but given that he’s basically had a pass on all of that, he becomes much harder to do after removing kori as we’ll then have lost 2 people on his wagon

Locke is also dangerous as if he replaces out then it could be someone dangerous who takes the slot

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I also see the case for killing klick, but the problem is that he’s one of the people who was also hard defending me in regard to everything

If we kill him, yes, we cut away someone who is highly reluctant to vote dong, but we also cut away a defender for me which makes winning this 1v1 harder D2, plus we don’t have a chance for klick/Bella paranoia to develop further

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Or we just kill dong. If we do that, we prob do bella or Locke tomorrow if we can, kill icon N2 and go to lylo with some combo of you/me/kori/klick/one of bella/locke

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Idk i think the first thing i wanna figure out is who we kill
Because as you could see I'm a tad conflicted

I think who we kill depends on which lylo we’re going for

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Also locke's reads, what are they? I've no idea. He doesn't seem to be SRing me atm and might be on my and bella's side if klick starts pushing

If we go the klick/bella/locke read then who's the lynch tomorrow?

Pedit: ah okay
Yeah, tho idk if I'd be worried about locke's slot rn, i mean i really don't think we can kill him so not much point bashing our heads with that

Yeah, without korina I'm not sure if we could push that wagon throughi

Ppedit: yeah i think we can cross klick off for now.

Pppedit: hmmm lemme think

Ppppedit: HOLY SHIT LET ME POST

Lol whoops

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Ugh, korina in lylo is gonna be a pain though
That dude is gonna be writing wallpost after wallpost

Yeah but I’m losing this 1v1 against dong. Do I think I should be? No, I think dong has been outrageously scummy and I think I would have voted him today as town too. But the fact of the matter is I am.

With kori, who knows? Maybe I win, maybe I don’t. But maybe I don’t even have to 1v1 him. I actually think klick is quite a viable paranoia lynch in 5p lylo bc he’s broadly TR by most people but will have made it that far

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Would nking icon make any sense here?

Talk me through how we win if we kill icon

I kinda see where you’re going with it but I’m not sure

Like, we kill icon, then we lynch dong, kill kori?

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Actually, that could work, yeah

My main concern is that looks maybe a little too obviously like cutting away dong’s support

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I kinda think we should do icon prob

Yes, it’s cutting away dong’s support in a way that makes us look worse

But fuck this game so let’s jst do it anyway?

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What could the trap be that the flip would be bad for us?

I think one of them might be a loyal neighboriser, but then i just CC dong if he claims that

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As in I claim that I’m in the thread with him and he’s scum fakeclaiming it or some shit

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Loyal neighborising neighbour

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I kinda think we should do icon prob

Yes, it’s cutting away dong’s support in a way that makes us look worse

But fuck this game so let’s jst do it anyway?

Aaaagh, like
I don't wanna make a kill that makes us look worse
But idk what other kill to do
Idk would scumdong kill icon here

What could the trap be that the flip would be bad for us?

I think one of them might be a loyal neighboriser, but then i just CC dong if he claims that

That's the thing,

i don't know

Like i legit can't think pf anything
And idk if he's bsing us or if he's actually not just a neighbor

And his eod interaction with dong reads so weird

Why do we make a kill that makes us look worse tho, instead of something like kori that makes us look better? NKA is always WIFOM

Dong could plausibly make the kill for the same reason I thought of killing kori — kill your supporters and you look like you’re being weakened/framed

Also, hey, we’re in the power position here. Maybe they have something that will make us change plans, but fundamentally we know who they are and they don’t know who we are. I don’t think we should worry too much about traps especially if we can’t think of how a NK would confirm us as scum. I think we just pick who we think helps us the most with getting through to 5 or 3p lylo

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It’s not necessarily about killing the consensus TR, it’s about killing people who are interfering with the ability to control the game

That might be because they’re forceful personalities, and later game being conf!town or PR or just town!locked by everyone raises their threat level

But I think the NK should always be based on your winning objective, which is to get to lylo and get one towny to vote another.

Right now, I think icon meets the criteria well: he’s hard to mislynch now, he supports the main candidate that we’d like to lynch tomorrow, he scumspects me at a minimum, he is familiar with both our meta

We can always try to WIFOM it, but I think the main question is who is better? Because if we do dong, we’re not doing icon tomorrow. But if we do icon tonight, we might be able to do dong tomorrow.

But I don’t feel super strongly about it, if you really wanna go elsewhere I’m on board

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Yeah, I don’t think it’s guaranteed by any means, but what’s our alternative? This is why I like to think of it it terms of long term lylo prospects

Kori is a player who I think can either be widely TR or widely SR depending on the player base, but not actually that much in relation to what he’s doing, more based on how people click with him

If we do kori tonight and I don’t push dong after that hammer then I think that looks wildly out of sync with town!me who I think most always doubles down here

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I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again

You can come back and be like “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 bulletproof multitasking cop and self-targeting doctor” and I will go “okay, Locke kill it is then”

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Could icon be in 2 different PTs?

Like, he’s in a neighbourhood with dong

But masons with someone else

That would also make neighbourhood enabler much more of a check on town power imo

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Oh yeah, had a dream last night that gobble replaced heaven and figured both of us out. Might have to keep an eye on that slot.

did you miss this lmao?

Let’s kill kori

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I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again

You can come back and be like “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 bulletproof multitasking cop and self-targeting doctor” and I will go “okay, Locke kill it is then”

also this genuinely made me laugh i'm gonna sig this after the game ends if that's okay with you

pedit: i mean, not impossible? but who'd he be masons here with?

Lol go for it

Good question

Prob requires some iso digging if it may be true. Is there anyone he didn’t really interact with a lot but left as hard town or strongly townside all game?

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If there are protectives then I think this game is townsided, but I think the review board tend to err on the side of townsided so I wouldn’t be totally shocked

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Lol do u wanna no kill

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This is probably insane but you could claim a save on me

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We use that to force dong through

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Why does scum kill town!you though?

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I think because the chem flip makes me look more town as does the way that dong hopped on the hammer last minute

So he would be worried about losing the 1v1 today, and he thinks enough people TR him to survive plus me dying erodes the majority of the pressure on his slot

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Hammer before last minufr*

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Well, generally town benefits from thinking about what’s most probable and scum from making people think about possibility

But here we’re actually more like town because we have incomplete information and have to make a decision under conditions of uncertainty

I’m still down to kill either icon or dong or klick or kori depending on where our strategy ends up

I was just playing with the idea of the NK bc if there’s no protectives for real then it puts us in mylo on D3 after we get song done tomorrow

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The idea of no NK*

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I think because the chem flip makes me look more town

tho i do think that some (Locke?) were also calling that read insincere? ughhhhhhh dong is gonna bring that up again? meh fuck it i'm gonna WK you to death

I prob need to reread locke’s ISO tbh

I still think he might rep out which is a major risk because if someone like RC joined we would be getting wrecked I think

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Oh fuck how did this deadline leave so quickly!?

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I think maybe I should do the kill just in case, because I think a full investigative is less likely to be in the game than a soft one, and I kind of think they might be more likely to track me than you

But my scum equity is higher, so I think it’d be less of a loss than you because odds are slimmer that I make it through

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Ugh I kinda just wanna kill dong because I’m feeling burned out and idk how much I can commit towards pushing him badly today

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I’ll leave it on icon for now tho, hopefully I’ll get a fresh wind

I’m semi-tempted to claim cop with a guilty on dong lol

That prob gets him lynched but then tomorrow it’s me which would get you to 3p lylo for sure if it worked

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Yeah sheep me like hell

Tbf I just looked in thread and I only have 50 posts which is not me tryharding

Lol I think I’m gonna end up being sortable as scum by postcount at this rate

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Okay nah fuck it let’s do icon and I’ll 1v1 dong

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I don’t think I can say I’ve been trying that hard to win when he has twice my post count, so concluding that I’m defo gonna lose when I just don’t have that much thread presence rn is a bad choice

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Another thing to bear in mind is we could also not go for dong today but for Locke/Bella, so long as we’re subtle about it

As in, push dong, but be willing to compromise on klick’s theory that it’s TvT if it’s going nowhere

Push one of those two then kill klick

Then push dong in 5p lylo

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I kill icon

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Icon flip is gonna be interesting

I kinda think that dong claims a guilty on me whether it’s true or not

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Ehhhhh, fuck it, I kinda think an investigative watcher type role is unlikely anyway

If you wanna change it back to you for luls go for it

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Town loyal neighbouriser who targeted him probs

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tbh i think korina is gonna see right through that shit
like if anything he's gonna push why you didn't neighborize him/me

Shit good point haha

I think I could make the case that I was so frustrated that no one could see dong scum when it was super clear to me, plus that I thought that if he was actually town and I was just tunnelled it would free me up to work on finding other scum?

But yeah, town me prob does go for him/you

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I really wanna change it back for the lulz i guess, other thank klick i don't think any investigative targets me tonight, and idk if i'd be protected

i'll sleep on it

you gonna be around when the deadline hits?

I think u should change it for luls

What is mafia if not a game of luls

And docial seduction, but primarily luls

Also prob no, I think I’ll be heading off to another school here to meet people erc

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But yeah, town me prob does go for him/you

out of curiosity, who does town!mena go for?

That’s actually really tricky and I realised as I said it

I feel like korina’s approach to me is potentially just gonna be to pocket me super hard when he does role scum so this game would be ringing BELLS if I was town and I’d quite wanna have that confirmed

But on the other hand you’re literally why I’ve managed to stay motivated throughout this game and prob the person (read: definitely the person) I talk to most on site

So probably like: korina if I was in the mood to try hard the game and I was worried the paranoia there might fuck me over

But you assuming I’m in the mindset of wanting to have as much fun as possible

Which would be mostly you

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Wow I think I put as much analysis into that as I did into the NK

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Well, not quite

But close

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but on the other hand... what's the record for the longest scum PT in a 9-player game?

Asking the right kind of questions

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I remember hearing some fun stuff about gambits with a disloyal neighbouriser like not outing immediately but claiming that you’re a regular neighbouriser to see who scum try to smell you on

If I was regular in this game I’d neighborise you because I think sharing a thread with kori would just tamp my paranoia up even higher

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I mean we’re like a page behind the main thread which had 9 players worth of pots in it

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I mean it was probably a good kill tbf

I think I was SRing kori/roster D2