Micro 892: TemporalLich's Micro Normal [Game Over]

[Datisi]

VOTE: Locke

Guess who's gotta go to class after only sleeping some 90 minutes last night?

Spoiler:

[Datisi]

Tbh Icon being jumpy is pretty NAI I think

Tho why do you still say that it's a panic claim?

[Datisi]

@klick, disagree. It was funny, but not worth the hassle - as seen by ice's still calling it 'panic claiming'. Imagine lylo and still chatting about it.

From

you

,it's totally nai

P-edit, also what datisi said

Knowing this game we probably will be still chatting about it if/when lylo comes

Is the "you" here icon or klick?

[Datisi]

Imagine lylo and still chatting about it.

Nailogical!

I mean, the main reason was because I found it hilarious.

There's also a reason related to getting out of RVS or something. But mostly lols.

Klick explained his reasoning here, and you said you "buy" them being lovers irl? Do you like/dislike this post?

[Datisi]

Yeah, I agree with that not being made up, I just thought the fact kinda gives merit to their claim being a joke? What do you mean by it being off?

[Datisi]

Eh, it was def

weird

, but don't think it's necessarily out of the realm of T/T RVS shenanigans
Like Bella comes from that situation looking a bit scummier than Klick imo but I wouldn't yet bet on either of them being scum

Can't wait for LYLO

Funny to hear this coming from you now

[Datisi]

> says they're good RVS shenanigans
> tries to dayvig the person doing them

so we are both town

Spoiler:

[Datisi]

For some reason I thought "good shenanigans" also meant "Town shenanigans", i need sleep

Though if you're more sus of Bella (which I assume why the vote?) why "dayvig" Klick?

Pedit: Bella, I asked that question, not Icon?

Also see y'all later, gotta run now

[Datisi]

Though if you're more sus of Bella (which I assume by* the vote?) why "dayvig" Klick?

(ebwop) Icon, I think you missed this question (and some of Mena's as well) earlier?

[Datisi]

Dongempire, what changed between 77 and 82? Seems like a weird progression on Icon.

[Datisi]

Also in regard to 83 and 84, not sure how you come out with TRing Bella over Klick? I don't find the posts you listed in 84 as particularly scummy. Also, while both their posting at the start of the day was null-ish, I don't think Bella's further posting has been especially great.

[Datisi]

Dongempire, what changed between 77 and 82? Seems like a weird progression on Icon.

Based on context I’d guess it was based off 80

80 is your post though? You mean that 80 made them read 72? Though that post doesn't seem to be overly positive of Icon, so I'm not sure what you mean here.

[Datisi]

Oh

Not sure how you can draw a TR from

that

post (if 82 was even a serious read to begin with, which maybe it wasn't and I'm dumb?), but... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Datisi]

Dongempire, what changed between 77 and 82? Seems like a weird progression on Icon.

Nothing?
I hadnt read up on the game yet when i made the post, and just saw that icon was in the game and menals comment. Then i read up properly and saw he was towny.

Gotcha. Thought your read had changed because of the posts made between 77 and 82.

I dont tr bella, nor do i sr klick. I'm going through the motions, i think saying that i have strong reads on either would be stretching it right now.

I didn't say you do. What I meant by saying you "TR Bella over Klick" (and I see if my wording could've been a bit confusing there) is that you think Bella is more Town than Klick.

Not gonna fly with just saying the last posts are bad, provide examples if you want this cart rolling.

Examples of Bella's posts I'm not a fan of are 52 and 65. Sure, she's asking questions, but I'm not sure I see her using the answers for anything? To me it just reads like passive questioning of others.

[Datisi]

@datisi, this is what I do day one - I ask a lot of questions. I'm trying to get a read on people, not necessarily direct the thread.

I mean, asking a lot of questions is fair game, hell I often do it a lot myself, but I kinda don't see the answers being used? Like, did Mena's answer impact your Mena or Icon read?

[Datisi]

Hmm, I don't know how I feel about this.

Regarding Locke's mistake, I'm not sure that it's necessarily scum indicative, but I've made the mistake of letting things that shouldn't slide slide, so we'll see.

Overall liking datisi, always like an active sorter, klick is there, not really sure how to feel about him at the moment, liked menal's entrance, chemist is mostly nothing at the moment, pot calling kettle black I know, dong's funny so my read maybe bias but leaning town currently. And the rest of your posts don't make me feel more inclined to consider you town so I'mma keep my vote on you

Though I can't help but wonder if Bella does raise a good point here. You said you liked Mena's entrance, and he did spend a few posts talking about me (poor man must still be traumatised), so I kinda find it odd as well you didn't bring it up? Maybe I'm just overly paranoid of potential buddying.

At the time of making the post 95, had you read everything?

[Datisi]

Regarding Bella... It's nice to see them engaing in discussion with someone, but posts like these still seem a bit off to me.

Ive asked two (now three) questions - one of which to iconium, who hasn't replied to me - but from others' response, I'm guessing he's just like this. I can't read this slot well yet.

It's pretty obvious iiked the thought that went into menalques answer and they cleared up an issue I had with two different reactions that didn't make sense to me (to klick and ice).

It's should also be easy to reckon I'm not impressed with Locke's posting.

Feels kinda uncommitted? (To be fair, it is page 5/6, so it may be too early, but still.) You liked the thought that went into Mena's answer, but I still got no idea how you're reading him (or the majority of the game) now.

[Datisi]

I know it was fake, but you said in 51 that you dayvigged who you found scummy, so I'm a bit confused is all.

[Datisi]

I know it was fake, but you said in 51 that you dayvigged who you found scummy, so I'm a bit confused is all.

And didn't I say I thought him 'panick claiming' lovers for the least amount of pressure was scummy?

You did, I was kinda asking about your vote, since your dayvig was on Klick but vote on Bella.

[Datisi]

Jezus how difficult can you make something?

Klick claims lovers with Bella. I 'shoot' Klick. They both die. Problem solved.

but it was a fake dayvig

I'm being called out for interacting with the 2 players whoms interaction I found, at the very least, weird.

What is this

Bleh, just potentially worried if your actions are off, since you said you don't think they're s/s

I'm probably overthinking it

Then vote me, honestly surprised you haven't yet

Did you misread my post? Maybe I posted it weirdly?

I was agreeing with you that Bella was overdefensive there, and she's my top scumread right now but it's early for something concrete

While I'm not a fan of that defensiveness from Locke, this did make me laugh

[Datisi]

but it was a fake dayvig

but it was a fake lovers claim

they why did you shoot him for being lovers eh

[Datisi]

Bleh, just potentially worried if your actions are off, since you said you don't think they're s/sI'm probably overthinking it

If I were actually a vig, and Klick actually claimed lovers like this game, I would 100/100 shoot in them and kill them both.

...excellent plan, right.

[Datisi]

@Bella, how is Icon one of your confident reads now? You said earlier you can't read him well, and 144 doesn't seem that sure either? (also I can't see the colors either rip)

@Dong, why is a readslist on page

7

8 bad "either way"?

[Datisi]

Also, my thing about colours was sarcasm

...okay I'm actually dumb

but his real response to it suggests that I'm putting too much faith in people being able to 'tone read' and also clarifies why some people are having 'shes fence sitting ' as a reaction. I feel like im clearly describing 'apple' and some people are getting 'banana'.

It's normal for my town day one, tho.

This part makes me uneasy, tho

It may just be a playstyle thing, but this game is feeling really weird right now, with how little people have used their vote/only voted in RVS. We've got 1 person inactive, 3 people who haven't voted at all and 2 who haven't changed their RVS votes at all, I know its still early days but still makes the game feel almost passive for lack of a better word

> complaining about gamestate and people being inactive
> his recent posts are 133, in which he's knee-jerk defensive at the sight of someone possibly saying he pings them, and 139 which doesn't add anything and is partly just a joke
> the only time he provides any reads he's saying the most obvious things

oh look, my RVS vote isn't random anymore.

The only thing giving me pause is Bella also being on this wagon. Hmm.

[Datisi]

but his real response to it suggests that I'm putting too much faith in people being able to 'tone read' and also clarifies why some people are having 'shes fence sitting ' as a reaction. I feel like im clearly describing 'apple' and some people are getting 'banana'.

It's normal for my town day one, tho.

This part makes me uneasy, tho

Why?

Kinda reads like "uhm guys this is town!me I promise you".

I wasn't being defensive in 133, I was being 100% sincere, I thought icon found me suspicious, which would have been understandable since quite frankly if I wasn't me I'd be voting me right now, so I told them to vote me, you know the thing I'm complaining that people aren't doing enough of?

I wasn't complaining about people being inactive, which is a lack of posting, it was about a lack of actively voting, you know the thing that is literally the only thing the majority of town can actually do to provide pressure?

I mean sure, it's understandable someone would find you suspicious, but that thing with icon did feel off.

Words can also provide quite a bit of pressure. Plus, voting comes naturally after people actually find someone they want to vote for, which is achieved by discussion. I don't think you've got a right to complain about that when you're not exactly trying to drive anything forward.

[Datisi]

Mena, I think you misunderstood Dong's posts the same way I originally did?

When I first read 153 and 154, I thought the point was that a readslist on page 8 is bad either way, as in inherently bad. The answer to my question in 161 made me think that's not actually the point they were trying to make.

So, uhhh, Dong, clear this up for me pls? Did I get it right?

[Datisi]

Hm, Bella's posting is getting better.

You say asking questions is along your town day 1? What's your other days usually look like?

UNVOTE:

I like that locke pointed out that it's weird more people weren't all over his mistake. It also means other people are happy with disinformation.

Also, where did he point this out?

[Datisi]

Oops, ignore the second question, I found it

[Datisi]

Do you feel like that's a mistake that scum are more likely to make than town?
How did that mistake happen?

Noticed that I missed this last night. I think it depends on whether or not you think the mistake is the genuine one I said it is, or a scum trying to slip misinformation against another player into the discussion without getting noticed and the actual mistake being stupid enough to think that would work.

Upon seeing a mistake like that from another player, would your first thought be that it's a genuine mistake or malice? If you thought it was a genuine one, would that be more likely to come from Town or scum?

Also, how's your reads looking at the moment? You're still voting Bella, is it still an active vote?

[Datisi]

Datisi, where's your mind at currently?

At human bones, but I assume you mean game-wise:

Do not lynch today pile: Icon, Klick

Currently in the Do not lynch today pile but if they make an extremely good case I could get persuaded: Mena, Dong

Slowly getting into the Do not lynch today pile: Bella

Do lynch today pile: Chemist, Heaven, Locke

[Datisi]

His actions and responses to me feel like town!Icon, so mostly gut/experience with him

Even though it's been proven time and time again that I don't actually know how to read him

[Datisi]

Icon, he was around early game and then kinda disappeared? So I feel like that could have been busy work trying to get himself credit for the activity even while I don’t think a lot of his play was really driving the game forward. On the flip side, icon has a rep for being mislynch bait and that makes me hesitant, plus in my only encounter with scum!icon he was trying a lot harder to actively create a fucked up gamestate whereas here he’s just,.. not here?

Now I think about it. I don’t love ... datisi having him in “do not lynch” based on the content he’s provided so far

?

Sure, some of his posts are fluff, but I feel like I can see genuine sorting there as well.

Also, you call him scummy for his activity (which is a Bad reason, btw), but then in the same breath call him possible mislynch bait and say that this game doesn't fit within his scum meta?

[Datisi]

@Datisi

Was Bella's readslist the basis of your read change on her?

If you mean 150, no. At first it made me even more wary of her, since I noticed an "inconsistency" regarding an Icon read (159) and saw that as a possible buddying attempt

I really liked 195, at which point I decided I should probably reconsinder, pull my head out of my own ass and stop being overly paranoid about things that are probably NAI, like:

It's normal for my town day one, tho.

[Datisi]

Uhh, sorry y'all, busy day, then a friend of mine had a birthday
Quite a bit of alcohol involved
Responses coming tomorrow

[Datisi]

I'm anxious about datisi - they keep throwing shade on me even when agreeing with me: votes locke with me for similar reasons but still calls out her scum rwad on me and doesn't want to be sharing my wagon? Keeps making a thing out of a fairly innocuous comment about my day one meta, even on this page...but hasn't voted me.

At the time, I was SRing both of you. I both felt that you were asking empty questions to appear busy and that Locke either wasn't reading or was purposefully ignoring Mena's earlier posts, and that he was hypocritically shading others. But I didn't feel that you two are S/S, that's why I was conflicted.

I made a thing out of your comments because they pinged me at the time I was thinking you were scum. As I said in 253, after I stopped to reconsider my read on you, I realized I was making a fuss out of posts that are most likely NAI due to my own tunnelling/paranoia. I was not trying to shade you in that post btw, I'm sorry if it came out that way. I was simply showing an example of a post that I was (unfairly) using to SR you, but have since changed my opinion.

Not as sold on your point about Datisi, but there is something there especially the part about the lack of voting you at any point during their scumread of you. If her read of you had came after her read on me it would make more sense but it was the opposite, so why didn't she vote you at the time she seemed to scumread you? Datisi def interested in your response to this. Overall not enough that I would consider dropping my townread at the moment but possibly worrisome deponding on the response

My early SR of Bella wasn't strong (and my early reads are often super off), I was interested in hearing their responses first before voting. Then your and Bella's page 5/6 discussion came around, from which point on I didn't like either of you, so I didn't bother to move my vote.

[Datisi]

Hmm a mistake of that magnitude probably malice. Smaller mistakes I may pressure a little if it feels a bit off but would probably assume genuine and NAI.

I think there's an interesting discussion to be had here, though I'm not sure if it'd help us sort anyone.

For now Icon is townread, may change after his activity picks up again, he seemed engaged with the game at the beginning to a degree I'd feel would take a very confident scum player to pull of, and since I have no meta knowledge of him I have to take it at face value for now

It is kinda weird that Icon went from pretty active to his most recent activity being one defensive post and then disappearing again.

Locke, can you clear up your thoughts on Icon? I still feel that "inactivity" is a bad reason, especially if I think that player's shown to be Towny and sorting.

[Datisi]

I think chemist is town, not because of any of his posts but because of menals irrational townread of him feeling like its there to get easy credit.

I'm not sure I get this? I don't see why you're ruling out scum!Mena trying to protect scum!Chemist.

[Datisi]

Datisi, for me icon made a lot of noise early game but it was more surface than it looked (declaring you town, making a thing out of the fake day vig, pressure on me), went quiet and then popped up to refute something I hadn't even said, where ethe context had been discussed. That's not just activity, that's a change

Hm. I get where you're coming from, but I kinda disagree, Icon's content so far looks like town!him to me. I don't find his inactivity AI, since I'm used to him taking VLA weekends, and I know it's well within his Towngame to read things wrong, or to appear from the void, throw a weird comment and then disappear again.

[Datisi]

Haven't actually seen it (except once in a game I was in for a very short time with a weird/unbalanced setup, so I'm not counting it).

However, I'm seeing Towny things from him, and most of the "scummy" things that others are caling out are things that I've in the past used to wrongly SR him (and incorrectly vote him in mylo/lylo, twice). I'm aware that my read

could

be wrong, but with scummier players and other discussions being present here, I'm feeling fine with him being in my "Do Not Lynch" pile for Day 1.

[Datisi]

Dongempire, what changed between 77 and 82? Seems like a weird progression on Icon.

Based on context I’d guess it was based off 80

80 is your post though? You mean that 80 made them read 72? Though that post doesn't seem to be overly positive of Icon, so I'm not sure what you mean here.

i have no idea what ur even trying to say here.

Was trying to figure out why would Chemist think that post 80 would change Dong's reads on Icon.

Datisi, where's your mind at currently?

At human bones, but I assume you mean game-wise:

Do not lynch today pile: Icon, Klick

Currently in the Do not lynch today pile but if they make an extremely good case I could get persuaded: Mena, Dong

Slowly getting into the Do not lynch today pile: Bella

Do lynch today pile: Chemist, Heaven, Locke

care to explain why?

Icon - see 288 and 290. Trying to sort Bella/Klick during RVS, poking me, going after Bella's reads are what I feel is Towny. Also, he's not lurking, he's V/LA.
Klick - Reminds me of Klick from Mini Normal 2095 (the game recently ended, both of us were Town there), I can follow his thought process
Mena - Similar like Klick, feels like Mena from Newbie 1949
Dong - Felt they were Towny, mindmeld on Icon read
Bella - see 253 and 283.
Chemist - don't see why I should be TRing him
Heaven - 4 posts.
Locke - see 171. I feel like his recent posts've been getting better, but it's not convincing yet

Also, why do you think Chemist's "town-ish"?

[Datisi]

I think chemist is town, not because of any of his posts but because of menals irrational townread of him feeling like its there to get easy credit.

I'm not sure I get this? I don't see why you're ruling out scum!Mena trying to protect scum!Chemist.

for example i doubt he is partnered with either chemist or klick for different reasons.

Dong, can you answer this for me please? And can you explain the Klick thing too?

[Datisi]

@Klick, sorry, I do not see the case for scum!Icon here. I'm not voting him for things I know he does as Town.

@Mena, I thought this was an answer enough

Icon - see 288 and 290. Trying to sort Bella/Klick during RVS, poking me, going after Bella's reads are what I feel is Towny.

[Datisi]

@VOTE: Dong
Would you be so kind?

I think chemist is town, not because of any of his posts but because of menals irrational townread of him feeling like its there to get easy credit.

I'm not sure I get this? I don't see why you're ruling out scum!Mena trying to protect scum!Chemist.

for example i doubt he is partnered with either chemist or klick for different reasons.

Dong, can you answer this for me please? And can you explain the Klick thing too?

[Datisi]

tbph, id prefer a chem lynch over mena lynch today.

Any reason you're not voting then?

[Datisi]

i will notify you when i do remember.

please do

also what the fuck are those end of page 15 posts

[Datisi]

tbph, id prefer a chem lynch over mena lynch today.

Any reason you're not voting then?

currently i have little reason to vote chem imo. im thinking hes town, and i dont wanna lynch that. if were just about to be at deadline, (prob like 12ish hrs from now), and it seems like everyone is fine with voting chem, yea, sure, ill vote him. however, atm, i feel like ico is scummier and should get lynched first.

Okay, any reason your vote's not on Icon/Locke?

[Datisi]

well since that page was basically just dong being a toxic asf, I can sum my thoughts up pretty quickly:

If it were 3 years ago i'd self vote and replace out. Hell i probably would have done it 5 pages ago.
Keep pushing, im not going to bite the bait.

Honestly dong, fucking go for it, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

pretty sure both of these posts are against the rules
can this bullshit please stop

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

[Datisi]

It's almost true

...what?

Full disclosure: I'm in a PT with Dong, NOT confirmed town

...what?

VOTE: Dong

Dong isn't inherently scum for claiming what he did, he even talked about it in the PT. However, the single easiest way to see if he's scum or not is lynch Menalque

He did? And if Mena flipped Town (which I rn think is more likely), how would that confirm Dong?

[Datisi]

(@Datisi/Icon)

I'm drawing heavy comparisons between Menalque/Dong here and Luca/Tchill from last game (and it also feels a bit similar to the argument Icon and I had early D2 when I felt his actions were unjustifiable from a town perspective).

Don't remind me, I've been trying to repress that game from my memory...

I can't remember exactly (and maybe I wasn't actually reading carefully oops), what's the comparison? Other than the obvious "argument that keeps on going".

Was your and Icon's argument about him fakeclaiming Cop? (I'd go check, but MS machine is broke.) If so, I feel like there's a difference between fakeclaiming Cop when you're a Loyal Mailman (which is basically a stronger, more flavorful Cop) and fakeclaiming Masons when you're not a Mason, then claiming some mysterious role things that justify it.

PEdit: that list sure does contain a lot of anti-town things. I've (unfortunately) seen town do many of those things. Hell, last game town-Tchill fake-claimed Tracker in Lylo to spite town-Icon fake-claiming Cop earlier in the game.

Also last game, scum!Gobble claimed that his slot's predecessor fakeclaimed VT when he was a N3 BG.

Sure, some things on Mena's list can come from Town. But shit, I've lost enough games where scum did some obviously scummy things for Town to then completely ignore it because "personality", "scum wouldn't do that" or whatever.

[Datisi]

also same, took an unfun time for the post to go through

[Datisi]

Datisi's progression onto the Dong wagon isn't pretty. She goes from feeling Towny about Dong to voting Dong after Dong doesn't answer her question, and after the Mason gambit thing, she places her vote back on Dong. I'm not super convinced Datisi has put much thought into whether Dong is actually scum - her jump onto that wagon feels opportunistic and safe. She fits the bill.

I was TRing Dong in the first half since I believed that they're Towny, I felt we were thinking similarly on our Icon read and the whole DongvMena thing felt like Town talking past eachother. Dong had been getting worse imo, and when I was trying to interact with them, I felt they were ignoring my questions. Then that Mason/not Mason/basically Mason? thing that is really rubbing me the wrong way came around. And how is that wagon safe? Mena was the only one on it at the time, and a good portion of players seems to believe he's voteworthy.

You either have to adjust your standards of play or make sure you're playing with people who won't be anti-town.

Hnnnng, this logic feels so flawed to me.

[Datisi]

Town motivation in doing what I did, which is calling out obvious bullshit that really shouldn't get a pass but for some reason is getting one?

Dong, I thought you were ignoring my questions (after your responses to Mena had been getting worse, and funnily after you mocked him for saying that you were evading his questions), so I voted you. Then you claimed Masons, so I obviously unvoted.

Then

Icon said that you two are not Masons. You weren't willing to explain why you were claiming it, saying it's gonna be obvious when you flip. You self-vote. Get run up to L-1, still refuse to explain because it would complicate things. Is 515 the explanation? Because it doesn't seem that complex. Then you quickhammer Chemist? But you didn't know it was L-1, sure.

I'm just fucking done losing Town games from scum who spends the whole game doing the most anti-Town things imaginable for the Town to then go "haha personality yep they're

Town™

!" Maybe the part that annoyed me the most was this part of Klick's post:

Anti-town stuff comes with the meta these days. You either have to adjust your standards of play or make sure you're playing with people who won't be anti-town.

Like, dude, we were just in a game (Mini Normal 2095) where two slots who were arguably acting the most anti-Town like were the goddamn scumteam - LUV lurking the majority of the time, only to pop up every few days with word-salads of posts and making cases that were over 50 pages old, and A50/Gobble lurking the whole time as well, having "no SR's", claiming VT during mass, replacing out, the replacement

immediately counterclaiming itself and claiming N3 BG

, and nobody even blinked. (Except for Luca later, but he was blinded by LUV's bs, so eh.) Like, I've played like crap that game too, so I can't blame anyone for it (and I'm not trying to), but looking at the shit this game I'm getting the feeling that it's history repeating itself.

I do not see why I should be trusting Dong.
VOTE: Dong

[Datisi]

Oh yeah, you said this in 473:

What my goal is with this post is hopefully persuade datisi and chemist to think things through.

Implying you thought I was Town? I hadn't even posted from then to now, why am I suddenly rubbing you the wrong way in 515?

[Datisi]

I have never ignored your questions. There was one time i missed one, and you got butthurt over it and you keep shoving it in my face as some sort of proof im ignoring you. Im not. Dont fool yourself into thinking that.

Cheers, you're not ignoring me.

At the time

, I felt it was a good enough reason to vote.

There was 15 hours remaining on the clock, and you are town for parking your vote and then staying afk and im scum for quickhammering? Sure.

If voting the person I'm SRing and then not being online when they decided to quickhammer makes me scum, then fuck this game honestly.

And besides, i have something that will make me confirmed town at an instant.

Joy, I can't wait.

[Datisi]

So, two Town Neighbors, one of which is also an ungated Follower (with the other possibly being some fuckery as well), and an ungated Doctor? Right.

Sau, I know it's your thing, but could you please not be (fake)claiming Masons here?

Bella, what's the thought here? Oh, and when you get to it, why does Vex look worse on Chem flip?

I'm a Dr. Phone posting so not sure of post numbers but I crumbed with 'apple'(an apple a day) 'operation' and 'check-up' - two of them were directly in responses to klick,

so it makes me more happy he's town if he missed these crumbs.

[Datisi]

2 PRs already outted

might as well out what's left to avoid any scum gambits in the future

Allegedly 3 actually, since Dong is also a Neighbour with Icon.

missed ico being saved. id have to sleep on what that makes my reads.
also, im gonna case the locke/sauce slot tomorrow and prove why they're scum.

the thing is in a proper town process, first you think about what makes someone scum or town and then go from there.
you go backwards, you pick someone as scum and then think why they are scum.
lol

Vex said yesterday they were SRing your slot. Why do you even replace into a game if you're not gonna read then make BS accusations like this?

pedit: ohhhh boy that's a lot of text

[Datisi]

@Vex, you had both me and Klick at the same "level" of reads in 668. Why do you bring up scum!Klick but not scum!me?

[Datisi]

ye but i want to hear it from them

also Icon's on his weekend VLA people

[Datisi]

I'd also really appreciate you at least giving an idea of how strong your PR is.

Seconding this btw. Any reason you didn't comment on it the first time Klick's brought it up?

[Datisi]

i assure no such balance problems

Icon, I think there might be balance problems.

[Datisi]

i assure no such balance problems

Icon, I think there might be balance problems.

You cannot possibly know that until you have full setup knowledge

The times I thought 'imbalance' until after full disclosure so yeah

sigh

I'm a Neighbor Enabler.
And I'm seriosuly starting to think over how many PR's does this Town actually have.

[Datisi]

inb4 anyone asks, here's my crumb

Spoiler: First letter of the last word of the posts

For some reason I thought "good shenanigans" also meant "Town shenanigans", i need sleep

Though if you're more sus of Bella (which I assume why the vote?) why "dayvig" Klick?

Pedit: Bella, I asked that question, not Icon?

Also see y'all later, gotta run

n

ow

Though if you're more sus of Bella (which I assume by* the vote?) why "dayvig" Klick?

(ebwop) Icon, I think you missed this question (and some of Mena's as well)

e

arlier?

Dongempire, what changed between 77 and 82? Seems like a weird progression on

I

con.

Also in regard to 83 and 84, not sure how you come out with TRing Bella over Klick? I don't find the posts you listed in 84 as particularly scummy. Also, while both their posting at the start of the day was null-ish, I don't think Bella's further posting has been especially

g

reat.

Dongempire, what changed between 77 and 82? Seems like a weird progression on Icon.

Based on context I’d guess it was based off 80

80 is your post though? You mean that 80 made them read 72? Though that post doesn't seem to be overly positive of Icon, so I'm not sure what you mean

h

ere.

Oh

Not sure how you can draw a TR from

that

post (if 82 was even a serious read to begin with, which maybe it wasn't and I'm dumb?),

b

ut... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dongempire, what changed between 77 and 82? Seems like a weird progression on Icon.

Nothing?
I hadnt read up on the game yet when i made the post, and just saw that icon was in the game and menals comment. Then i read up properly and saw he was towny.

Gotcha. Thought your read had changed because of the posts made between 77 and 82.

I dont tr bella, nor do i sr klick. I'm going through the motions, i think saying that i have strong reads on either would be stretching it right now.

I didn't say you do. What I meant by saying you "TR Bella over Klick" (and I see if my wording could've been a bit confusing there) is that you think Bella is more Town than Klick.

Not gonna fly with just saying the last posts are bad, provide examples if you want this cart rolling.

Examples of Bella's posts I'm not a fan of are 52 and 65. Sure, she's asking questions, but I'm not sure I see her using the answers for anything? To me it just reads like passive questioning of

o

thers.

@datisi, this is what I do day one - I ask a lot of questions. I'm trying to get a read on people, not necessarily direct the thread.

I mean, asking a lot of questions is fair game, hell I often do it a lot myself, but I kinda don't see the answers being used? Like, did Mena's answer impact your Mena or Icon

r

ead?

Hmm, I don't know how I feel about this.

Regarding Locke's mistake, I'm not sure that it's necessarily scum indicative, but I've made the mistake of letting things that shouldn't slide slide, so we'll see.

Overall liking datisi, always like an active sorter, klick is there, not really sure how to feel about him at the moment, liked menal's entrance, chemist is mostly nothing at the moment, pot calling kettle black I know, dong's funny so my read maybe bias but leaning town currently. And the rest of your posts don't make me feel more inclined to consider you town so I'mma keep my vote on you

Though I can't help but wonder if Bella does raise a good point here. You said you liked Mena's entrance, and he did spend a few posts talking about me (poor man must still be traumatised), so I kinda find it odd as well you didn't bring it up? Maybe I'm just overly paranoid of potential buddying.

At the time of making the post 95, had you read

e

verything?

Regarding Bella... It's nice to see them engaing in discussion with someone, but posts like these still seem a bit off to me.

Ive asked two (now three) questions - one of which to iconium, who hasn't replied to me - but from others' response, I'm guessing he's just like this. I can't read this slot well yet.

It's pretty obvious iiked the thought that went into menalques answer and they cleared up an issue I had with two different reactions that didn't make sense to me (to klick and ice).

It's should also be easy to reckon I'm not impressed with Locke's posting.

Feels kinda uncommitted? (To be fair, it is page 5/6, so it may be too early, but still.) You liked the thought that went into Mena's answer, but I still got no idea how you're reading him (or the majority of the game)

n

ow.

I know it was fake, but you said in 51 that you dayvigged who you found scummy, so I'm a bit confused is

a

ll.

I know it was fake, but you said in 51 that you dayvigged who you found scummy, so I'm a bit confused is all.

And didn't I say I thought him 'panick claiming' lovers for the least amount of pressure was scummy?

You did, I was kinda asking about your vote, since your dayvig was on Klick but vote on

B

ella.

Jezus how difficult can you make something?

Klick claims lovers with Bella. I 'shoot' Klick. They both die. Problem solved.

but it was a fake dayvig

I'm being called out for interacting with the 2 players whoms interaction I found, at the very least, weird.

What is this

Bleh, just potentially worried if your actions are off, since you said you don't think they're s/s

I'm probably overthinking it

Then vote me, honestly surprised you haven't yet

Did you misread my post? Maybe I posted it weirdly?

I was agreeing with you that Bella was overdefensive there, and she's my top scumread right now but it's early for something concrete

While I'm not a fan of that defensiveness from Locke, this did make me

l

augh

but it was a fake dayvig

but it was a fake lovers claim

they why did you shoot him for being lovers

e

h

Bleh, just potentially worried if your actions are off, since you said you don't think they're s/sI'm probably overthinking it

If I were actually a vig, and Klick actually claimed lovers like this game, I would 100/100 shoot in them and kill them both.

...excellent plan,

r

ight.

[Datisi]

you did

tho i might have stolen this idea from an older game oops

pedit: WhaTs ThE ProBaBiLiTy

[Datisi]

Oh yeah, you did say D1 that you suspect masonries?

And I'd say it is. But the sheer amount of claimed PR's is making me think it's unlikely all of them are Town?

[Datisi]

...did you forget that Dong claimed Follower

pedit: ah okay

[Datisi]

- 1 Neighborhood - a claimed ungated Follower and a claimed Tiny PR
- suspicion of additional Neighborhoods for??? whatever reason???
- an ungated Doctor
- a Neighbor Enabler

like that's at least 4 Town PR's in a 9p game. I dunno, never seen more than two.

pedit: ah goddammit i need to redo the list

[Datisi]

What was your NA, and why did you suspect additional Neighborhoods? Because of being a Messenger?

also Icon sending messages to players again lmao what were the odds

[Datisi]

okay wiki tells me Messenger and Mailman are the same thing
that's funny.

So Neighborhood with an ungated Follower and a Mailman
then there's an ungated Doc
and a Neighborhood Enabler

uhhhhh, I'm not that great at balancing
but just by experience from other 9p games I've played
seems off?

[Datisi]

no, the way I'm looking at this is
you got a Doc and a Follower (which I'm gonna compare to a Tracker since that's a role I'm more familiar with and I feel like they're kinda similar? Maybe the Follower being a bit stronger?)
which by itself would be a maybe balanced game I feel? (because i know Doc+Tracker is a Newbie setup, or at least was)

and then you throw in an (all-Town??) Neighborhood
and a Mailman

and you balance it by adding an Enabler?

like maybe it's just me having only been playing semi-opens and closeds are balanced differently
but how is that "not much Town power" when the Doc saved the NK and then apparently got Followed?

btw why no Night Action?

[Datisi]

Bella claimed Doc tho.
Mailman isn't useless, like if someone got confirmed it could basically work as a Friendly Neighbor.
And there's also a Neighborhood.

It feels off to me because I've never seen such a wide array of things crammed into a 9p game. Like, out last 9p normal had one (1) PR.

pedit: No, obviously I'm not saying a Mailman and a Loyal Mailman are anywhere close to being the same in power
but pretending that a Mailman is a completely useless role isn't true either

[Datisi]

That's the thing Icon,

I don't know.

All I see is that there's PR claims left and right. Two claimed PR's in a same Neighborhood, with additional hints of there being multiple Hoods. And for someone used to 9p games having one, maybe two PR's this setup just seems strange. That's why I wanted to out, because my gut is telling me that there's too many claims. Like, I'll admit it, maybe I'm wrong and this is close to a (balanced?) role madness game. But with Bella most likely dying tonight anyway (if her claim is true, which I'm assuming so far it is), I didn't see a downside in actually coming out and having this conversation, especially since some are calling for a massclaim anyway.

pedit: yeah sure I just claim the exact role I am as scum. And I also crumb it.

[Datisi]

@icon
on wagon was {Locke/Sau, Bella, Icon, Dong, Klick}
off wagon was {me, Mena, Vex, Chem}

Going from on wagon since Chem is dead, I'm TRing Mena, and from a quick skim from Vex's iso it doesn't seem they were pushing the Chem lynch while being off-wagon (tho I am interested in their case against sau/locke).

Bella and Icon, barring some extreme bs, are pretty Town. Nothing's been said about Klick that makes me wanna lynch him rn, since just the being on-wagon isn't that convincing. Leaves Sau and Dong. I still heavily dislike the vast majority of Dong's play, but at this point I don't even know what to make of all the claims. Sau's just... there. Doing... nothing?

pedit: yo Sau enlighten us then?

[Datisi]

I don't have a Neighbor, I'm a Neighbor Enabler.
...crap i gotta paraphrase this
If/when I die, Neighbors are no longer able to privately communicate

[Datisi]

@Klick, you say you think the team is Vex/Sau, but then that the Day 1 wagon had high enough odds of being all-Town?

[Datisi]

@Dong

I think she fakeclaimed a role like that to discourage us both specifically from voting her.

My crumb's from posts 54-143, and the Neighborhood was claimed in 414 (392 of you count the Mason claim).

UNVOTE:

This was in response to me claiming masons with ico. If you were neighbour enabler like you said, why did you unvote here? You'd either know i was lying since you know there is a neighbourhood or just be vary about the claim, instead of just unvoting.

1) Being an Enabler does not guarantee that the main role actually exists in the first place.
2) My role PM is worded in a way that implies I'm not an Enabler "just" for Neighbors. A possible Neighborizer's created Neighborhood would also be covered. For all I knew at the time, the setup could've been Masons + Neighborizer.
3) A Mason pair + a Neighborhood pair would also be a theoretically possible setup.

In the heat of the moment, these possibilities crossed my mind, so I unvoted. Plus, I figured if you two were really the scumteam claiming Masons, that would've become evident sooner or later, and I wasn't gonna risk pushing a possible Mason's mislynch that would then most likely follow with my own.

[Datisi]

@Datisi and Ico
I'm already voting boys my stance is clear.
his progression and fos this day has been dishonest and fabricated

The fact Vex was SRing your slot doesn't change anything?
Also, in a two-scum game, a solve generally assumes two people

[Datisi]

Basically the point I'm making is that 'there has to be 1 scum on the Chemist wagon' isn't valid on its own. Taking my reads out of the picture, I see no problems with five town deciding to lynch Chemist yesterday.

Eh, it's very unlikely I think, but definitely

possible

.

@Datisi and Ico
I'm already voting boys my stance is clear.
his progression and fos this day has been dishonest and fabricated

The fact Vex was SRing your slot doesn't change anything?
Also, in a two-scum game, a solve generally assumes two people

do you want to teach me how to play?
and no, it doesn't. my vote is based on today's interaction with him, he could mention that he fos'ed me due to my predecessor but he didnt, it wasnt on his mind, there is no such linear thought process from a to b he's just going to make things up as things go

I'm sorry I'm trying to understand your thought process here?

[Datisi]

And i trust icos claim, think he is town and dont see a reason for scum to have a whisperer.
As i said i dont see a reason for scum to have a enabler either but im still thinking about it.

why the assumption that scum PR is gonna claim PR - especially the one they are?

[Datisi]

Eh, it's very unlikely I think, but definitely possible.

Well assuming you're town it's significantly less possible - the only option left for two scum off the wagon is Vex/Menalque

Thoughts on PR stuff? I struggle to see the balance in Doctor/Messenger/Neighbor-Enabler being the only town power (unless anyone else is planning on claiming).

Well yes, that's why I said I think it's very unlikely

uhhhh, I don't even know anymore tbh. Maybe it was wrong of me to be trying to break the setup, especially since i have very little knowledge of closeds (is that even the right plural form?). Like, I kept thinking whether it would MecHaNiCalLy be more likely for the Neighborhood to be T/T or S/T... And I've frankly no idea.

Tho the more I think about Dong's actions, the less sense scum!Dong makes. UNVOTE:

[Datisi]

Vex, have you started the case at least? And can you answer 689?

[Datisi]

L1 ico, announce these damn things

Haha you'd almost think i do these things on purpose, amiright?

ha

ha

funny thing is

the majority is still 5

it isn't even L-1

[Datisi]

yeah, i got it, i was just asking since you said "fully flesh out" if you've started it

and I'm aware you did

[Datisi]

Ah, right. I was asking because I vaguely remember reading a theory piece about scum fakeclaims in closed setups - why it's generally more advantageous for Goons to claim Town PR's and for scum PR's to claim VT. I'll link it if anyone cares/I find it again.

Also, I didn't see a thing about proxy votes in the mod's rules, and Icon's target isn't on L-1. Why not just vote them normally?

[Datisi]

This feels... wrong. I'm not sure if scum!Vex basically gives up this easily, he wasn't playing like this in our game together.
VOTE: Saudade

[Datisi]

At this point, PoE? Like if it's between Sau and Vex, I think Sau has better odds of flipping Red

[Datisi]

At this point, PoE? Like if it's between Sau and Vex, I think Sau has better odds of flipping Red

why

because it just feels off. scum!Vex jumps on any opportunity to argue with people/start a 1v1. he enjoys it. him barely even addressing your attack is not giving me a good vibe about his flip

[Datisi]

I kinda read it as "a cautious Townlean"? Like - they think I'm Town, but are aware that scum!Datisi is potentially able to fake that? I'd kinda found it more concerning if they busted in with a strong TR on me.

PEdit: Datisi, do you think if Vex is scum in this situation but also super busy with a group project, he's more likely to ignore his project to engage with the game than if he was town?

Uhhh... I would say yes, honestly. Though I'm not sure how likely that is in the first place.

I know he has playstyle differences/alignment preferences between the two accounts, but I just struggle to see scum!him be

this

passive.

[Datisi]

No, both Vex and Sau are at L-2.

[Datisi]

Yes, and...?

[Datisi]

Right. First and foremost, I think that selfhammer was fucking bullshit.

Dong and Icon, barring ungodly levels of shenanigans, are both Town, and I'll take the loss with pride if it somehow turns out one of them (or both) are scum.

Which leaves {Vex, Klick, Mena}. Means definitely at least one scum in my old TR's. Shit.

[Datisi]

Smh if it’s kori/dats two games in a row

as much fun as that would be...

I have been directly engaging with you a lot more so im süre you're scum whereas

while im certain on vex now,

i did have my doubts a few times before. I wouldnt object flipping to vex here because i think ıts solved.

What do you mean by "now"? Like, between your last post or...?

[Datisi]

That's not quite how that works I don't think. Wouldn't Follower be functionally identical to Tracker here?

if we assume no more visiting Town PR's, then I think Follower = Tracker pretty much?

And it's no guarantee he's not scum.

[Datisi]

A softclear really doesn't mean that much.

And they don't do the same thing?

The

Tracker

learns who a player targeted, but not what action that player performed.
The

Follower

learns what action a player performed, but not who that player targeted.

Though at this point in the game they're pretty similar.

And I'm also assuming 862? Was still thinking TvT tunnel at the time, I'll go reread a bit later

[Datisi]

Upon a double-ISO with Datisi and Vex, the two say hardly anything at all to each other in a way that makes me think they're not partners.

Like, I think Datisi in particular would be trying a bit harder to interact with her scumbuddy even if he was a bit inactive.

What makes you say that? At first I thought it was because you're familiar with 1949 (I remember it being linked in 2095), but you later said you don't know about that scumtell of Vex.

[Datisi]

Also, in 922 (and i think in some other posts tho I haven't gone and looked) you say Mena's acting towards Dong made you think he's Town, but in 936 you bring up his scumgame and potential similarities? Why only bring it up now?

[Datisi]

Ugh, rereading the last two pages, I keep wanting to Townbin both Mena and Klick when I know it's pretty much mechanically impossible. And regardless of the team, some weird things are happening. I think I kinda need Vex to show up here.

pedit: Hm. That's a fair read I guess, it's just funny how I was in a game where my partner (unintentionally) ignored me a lot in-thread.

[Datisi]

Sorry guys, school keeps leaving me exhausted, I'll get to this properly soon

Sure would love it if Vex appeared

[Datisi]

(I still haven’t had time to ISO anyone (I’ll do it tomorrow and this is a firm commitment)

Please do.

Rereading everything, I cannot get past this feeling Dong has been trying to pocket me since the very beginning tbh. He fully knew we weren't town to each other, and yet he treated me as a conftown from the getgo just for having a PT with him.

Can you please not

Datisi/Dong/me townbloc.

Why am I in the Townblocc this time but Klick isn't?

Pedit: also what is hedging I'm bit tired

[Datisi]

Yeah yeah I got was just asking since you left him out of your lynch pool in 1008

And uhhhh
That post was made at the time Mena and I were still voting for Dong? Yeah I see what you mean but I'd still like it if they were actually here

Pedit: Follower
But close enough i guess

[Datisi]

I guess y'all are right, Vex is most likely scum here.

VOTE: Vex

[Datisi]

OH MY FUCKIBG GOD QR FUCKIBG DID IT AAAAAAA

[Datisi]

Okay yall i gpt a class now or something thoughts comibg čater

Also dibs on shooting icon tonight thanks

[Datisi]

Coming later
Oh my god
Cheers

[Datisi]

Sorry icon

[Datisi]

Consindering i was our only PR, I don't really get it either. Interested in seeing the full setup.

[Datisi]

No redactions in the scum PT.

[Datisi]

Holy shit, after realizing what happened Night 1 I thought there was no chance in hell we could pull this off.

[Datisi]

No offense taken, Kori. But I do agree, I think this game was kind of a train wreck for both sides.

Icon, why no N1 action?

[Datisi]

Yeah, I know I said I was gonna redact some stuff, but I'll be surprised if anyone reads that PT anyway.

[Datisi]

I assume at this point that scum definitely have a pr.

Its not doc because scumdoc is useless and i know im Town.

I assume that ıts something strong like a rolecop or escort

since we have two town prs and i believe your claim so i doubt you're scum. That leaves Datisi to be the scum pr to claim.

Now there is a problem in that a lightkeeper role like she claimed is just as stupid of a scum pr as doc is.

I think she fakeclaimed a role like that to discourage us both specifically from voting her.
That said maybe the scum pr just havent claimed and im grasping. Problem is this only leaves menal and heaven to be scum and im getting town vibes as of Kate. İll think about the crumb for a bit, but i will definitely consider her as a possible lynch

I think Dong put it here pretty nicely.

Pedit: you moTHERFUCKER

[Datisi]

smdh after everything I've done for you

[Datisi]

Oh also I made a couple of memes during N2 while I was procrastinating on things so

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Datisi]

...we spent probably at least 5 pages going back and forth on whether you are the real Follower or if you're claiming Follower to eat the nightkill away from Icon
and you're telling me that you forgot??
No wonder you weren't acting as a Follower Day 1 lmao

Also Mena was doing the kill Night 2 so it wouldn't have mattered anyway

pedit: what he said. Jeez I have a feeling we read into Dong and Icon way more than we needed to

[Datisi]

No no, I don't regret a second of our theorizing, don't get me wrong

[Datisi]

My plan was to just lynch you today and make a definite case on the last scum partner anyway, the hammer came out of nowhere. I didnt even want vex lynched today tbh

Yeah, I was really worried about this, that's why I started absolutely losing my shit in the PT when I realized Vex is in the quickhammer-range

Btw, if anyone's got any feedback for me, I'd appreciate it. I still feel like a headless chicken half the time I'm playing.

[Datisi]

Yeah, sure, I'd love to read it. I had almost lost all hope when you made that post on the Mena/Dats team.

[Datisi]

Take it easy, there's no rush

[Datisi]

did you see my great "fake" claim RC?

[Datisi]

Oh also I made a couple of memes during N2 while I was procrastinating on things so

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

i have nothing better to do i swear

Spoiler: