Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[Hopkirk]

Important thing to remember too is that half the game was inactive around the time of that wagon and it grew fast. Scum wouldn't necessarily be around to bus, willing to bus, or bus in time.

Titus and Cliff are on Elements. Other bits of the scumpool were inactive (eg Rooster). Not sure where Kop was since he's missing. One sec.

[Hopkirk]

Hey Titus, where's your Cliff scumread gone?

Although based on that logic it is possible cliff could be scum but what makes you think you arnt wrong about any of those in that list

Shy do you not think one of the scum would have bussed cliff during that wagon

-4 are literally confirmed town (me/masons/Elements)
-1 is Hectic (I'm not wrong here)
-1 is Tchill (claim)
-1 is Billy (claim)

Does it get to 8 then not get scum on it if it's a wagon on town? Wagons were collapsing at the time and that could've easily become a lynch.
If one of Billy/Tchill are scum 7/8 town is still super pure.

I'm town and I actually was actually coming to a conclusion in my last post how I would think it's more likely that hectic is scum over you but okay

this is supposed to change my mind how?

you and tchill are far from conftown LOL

You might have missed the part where he was asking for my fucking opinion where I'm the towniest damn bastard ya evah saw. You definitely missed that Tchill wasn't listed as confirmed town.

[Hopkirk]

Most likely bus if there is one there would be Billy.

Kop was on Rooster and hadn't posted between the wagon getting serious and getting to 8 as far as i can tell

[Hopkirk]

Okay you don't have him listed as conftown but you act like his claim makes hit vote on me any more valid because you are desperate to deflect negative attention onto me right now and are grasping at straws. Refute that.

I could have coasted by with an easy Alonzo lynch days ago if I was aiming to avoid attention.

[Hopkirk]

Okay you don't have him listed as conftown but you act like his claim makes hit vote on me any more valid because you are desperate to deflect negative attention onto me right now and are grasping at straws. Refute that.

I could have coasted by with an easy Alonzo lynch days ago if I was aiming to avoid attention.

One scum on the wagon and it'd still be super pure.
There's only 2 slots that can be scum.
Both have claimed stuff believably.

[Hopkirk]

Your movie didn't have a fucking plot.

[Hopkirk]

You know what I'm not looking for d2? Deepscum when we haven't lynched scum yet.

Plenty of people can be deepwolfing. That's not what I'm looking for.

The point of listing possible deepscum is to not obvtown them prematurely.

See 2936 for reads.
If you take that post and add my more recent comment on Hectic you should get that he isn't a proper scumread, but certainly not a townread either.

I'm still seeing lots of hand waving and not much explaining of scumreads. If there are implications invovled I'm horrible at reading between the lines, just so you know. Why are you voting them?

Why I voted Gobble: After the Alonzo/Eevee wagons on low activity players I wanted to see if anyone would join a vote on an inactivey player I didn't like. The ISO is questionable which I'll go through eventually but I'd like to hear what you think on it and see if I actually need to. I Would have gone Kop if his V/LA wasn't still on at the time. Would have worked better if anyone else joined it so I got nothing out of that. Not that anyone else really had a wagon going. No Alonzo counterwagon sticks out there.

Why I voted Aaron: I was planning to follow with a case. On a reread he was town.
Why I voted Kop: There's stuff I don't like but if I post about him before he catches up it'll be handwaved away.
Why I voted Cliff: He seems pretty obvscum now right?

I didn't have any lockscum reads until today, so I haven't cased anyone. A large part due to not having time to go through stuff in the depth I'd like (Hectic was visiting for half of last week so with that and work I didn't have a chance to actually play mafia.

[Hopkirk]

Your movie didn't have a fucking plot.

This is almost worth a vote

His movie. You at least had a character arc. He had the whole wife thing brought up and abandoned for no reason then wasted a perfectly good opportunity to explore cults.

[Hopkirk]

You know what I'm not looking for d2? Deepscum when we haven't lynched scum yet.

Plenty of people can be deepwolfing. That's not what I'm looking for.

The point of listing possible deepscum is to not obvtown them prematurely.

See 2936 for reads.
If you take that post and add my more recent comment on Hectic you should get that he isn't a proper scumread, but certainly not a townread either.

I'm still seeing lots of hand waving and not much explaining of scumreads. If there are implications invovled I'm horrible at reading between the lines, just so you know. Why are you voting them?

Look at any of my old games and you'll see I reread and change my reads a lot. Townreads now aren't all going to stay that way d5.

[Hopkirk]

I could have coasted by with an easy Alonzo lynch days ago if I was aiming to avoid attention.

My alt got caught once as scum based on a post just like this.

wait so I'm not crazy in thinking that was a scumslip then? or are you implying something else

I swear nobody knows what a scumslip is.

[Hopkirk]

You're acting like I'm under so much pressure? That's because I'm making a scene. Pretty fucking explicitly what I'm going for since I didn't like how the game was going- one wagon that's been going for days without a counterwagon or any good justification. The best thing i've heard is 'it's basically a policy lynch' and a townflip would tell us nothing... well nothing except we lose a mason then go back to the exact same place we are now with one less inactive.

Shame we've got half a dozen of them and some of them are actually scummy.

[Hopkirk]

It's okay to admit when you've be caught instead of running to Rick.

[Hopkirk]

It's nice to see you're begging for help from so many people right now.

[Hopkirk]

can we get prods and votecounts @Lil Uzi Vert

[Hopkirk]

Texcat can be town purely from a YouAreGreat reread. There's so much newbtowntelling/almost slipping mixed in there.

[Hopkirk]

Does anyone have a good Titus soulread? I could have sworn she posted content either alignment, but that's from a while back.

[Hopkirk]

@Billy: how are you reading Aaron now?

[Hopkirk]

So at this point we've had what 6 pr claims and 4 implicit claims? Am I missing any direct ones?

[Hopkirk]

Billy's town. His scumgame was reserved/cautious/as far as I can tell he subbed out due to pressure from it. He has a lot of natural feeling posts this game.

Oh man, hectic and hopkirk are both going to make this game fun to read and infuriating to play. I don't have a clue how to read them, but it's enjoyable at least. Can't tell if carcalilly was joking, because that was a bit LAMIST. Carca were you joking?

VOTE: Carcalilly

Hectic's survivor crumb had me dying.

bad post

vote: billy pilgrim

JEEP's guide to catching mafia told me that naked votes with little explanation like this are usually bad.
Do you dislike his post because he's LAMISTing it up and not scumhunting?

i don't know what LAMIST means, tbh.

i didn't like the post because it was a long way of saying "i have no reads" while trying to appear to be substantive. and the questioning of carca + the immediate vote makes me feel like he genuinely wasn't interested in learning carca's perspective, and did it as filler.

is hectic an alt

no

he's town then (or rather, not lying about being survivor)

How does this knowledge affect your Hectic read?
I liked your entrance.

because his tone is extremely earnest and passionate about the game. but if it was an old user doing a "haha i'm so new" gimmick then it wouldn't be as genuine

What if he was an experienced mafia player, not necessarily with the experience being from mafiascum, with a 'sordid' history of memeing, and who had a humorous discussion with me last week about the flailing statistics.

he's probably still town in that case. i'm sure some of the stuff he's saying is a meme, though.

Ok makes sense. It's early, so this was basically my way of directing a question to Carcalilly while we are still in LIVS. LAMIST means look at me I'm so town. Her comment about worrying about Hectic pointing out breadcrumbs in response to what I thought was a pretty obvious joke came across to me as her trying to score easy townpoints. That's why I asked if it was a joke. And I didn't read it as a joke initially, which is why I directed the vote there.

And as for my comments that I can't read Hectic and Hopkirk, I mean that. The jokey posts come across as though they're not game solving, but they're legit nai, so sorting them is tough. Yet for some reason I decided to torture myself by replacing into this game.

Tone is super sincere here, and in general in discussion to memeing and Hectic.

@Gamma - I agree that I'm probably having trouble working my way into this game. It's ALOT larger than I'm used to, and it's insanely active. I think games been up for 36 hours and we're on page 22 already. So I'll be along.

Pedit: I'm not playing devil's advocate. My pm jumped out at me this time, because I'm used to them being green or red. Not sure why that wasn't noticeable for others, but it seems like everyone's letting this slide, and your play felt like you were sorting. That felt like the first scummy thing I could see, so now I'm left with nothing.

UNVOTE: Carcalilly

Wait why didn't you vote me here. Carcalilly using 'green pm' to mean town makes sense, but I clearly didn't realize there wasn't colour in the pm- as you mentioned earlier.

-Hop

Couldn't tell whether yours was a test or whether it was a slip. Given that there had already been discussion I thought you may have been fishing for reasoning which I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my post. I thought hers was the bigger outlier since she used it. You defending was suspect, but I figured it may have been you trying to draw out my reasoning.

This is the kind of thing newbscum latches onto and spends half the day tunneling. Billy seems to consider whether it's actually likely (see follow on in his iso). Reads aren't influenced which seems like a townie play, avoiding focusing on something he could call a policy lynch for a few days.

Judges recent posts are making me like that slot more. I think I've already said I like tchill's slot. I'm not sure why YAzg keeps voting my townreads, but it's definitely making me more skeptical of her slot.

My gut is telling me that this is simply you trying to back track on a push. While also using it to stear towards another. Makes me your scum thinking after Judges claims it would be to risky to push there. With you instead hoping to stear instead to another player that has been pushing him. All the while making a point of no longer scum reading him. So what made you like his slot more, that would of been the case before?

I just dont get why the first part was even posted. And on the later half care to tell us why YAzg pushes on those players you townread makes you as you put it skeptical of her slot. So why a scum leaning over a leaning toward town making misguided pushes. And what in the posts makes you feel its not genuine scum hunting


Your the other player that has pinged me so far. There is just this uneasy feeling im getting on your slot.

Did I really push Judge? I said there wasnt what I would consider game solvey content there, then it changed. If you don't see a difference in Judge's content then I guess this makes sense, but it started to look alot more like sorting and much less memey. And I posted that part because I had answered a question from Carcalilly about his slot earlier.

I liked the way she came in the game, and immediately started sorting. I probably read too much into the comment about the green pm. But if someone is scumreading your townreads, that is tough to square. I didn't say I'm scumreading her, I said it's making me more skeptical of the slot, which means I need to re-read it with a fresh eye.

Tone is super sincere. Easy to follow thought process.

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

Don't see this admission coming from scum. More likely to get defensive. His slot hasn't really been that bad so it sounds more like town guilt than anything.

@AaronFrost I agree that taking care of college stuff first is the right priority. Replacing in is good for the site, but it's better when you do it only when you're ready to play.

What was this in response to?

Nevermind, found it. Damn this game is unwieldy.

What he subbed out for as scum last time.

Ok, I'll be the IC or I'll get a guilty on a claimed vanilla cop. Check me I'm a VT.

No one else claim VT. Jailer can be on me to keep me alive. I'm not going anywhere. Although if there's a possibility that scum have a watcher maybe don't be on me.

Still don't think scum want to claim this. Not unless they've got a backup watcher (like town watcher/scum backup, scum tracker/town backup seems plausible). Even then it's clearly easier to just target Carcalilly.

[Hopkirk]

When you actually read the iso, Eevee is super obvscum.

[Hopkirk]

Super may be an overstatement, and we all know Dave has a problem with that kind of language.

I'd prefer a wagon to be on someone who can defend themselves. Even if he gets subbed, the sub wont know his reasoning, or why hes gone.

My defense of him is purely for altruistic reasons. Id hate to be a sub, subbed into a slot thats almost dead. Wouldn't you?

You missed my point. The sub wouldnt be able to answer those questions. They would only be able to read from a post-post perspective. So asking them anything about roster wouldnt get you anywhere

Didn't like these interactions we were having at the time. Eevee was very inconsistent logic wise in relation to the Roosterwagon. This line from Eevee specifically 'His reasoning for not being here his reasoning for having done nothing.' which does not gel at all with

someone getting force replaced for inactivity

. Disliked Eevee at the time for that since they seemed to be changing their position on the whole thing two or three times during the conversation, but fell off my radar.

besides that I have a little list, in order. town top.

gamma
hectic/

Dave

garmr
yag/profi
Bob/billy
Jjd
Dalton/Kop
Eevee/Eleme
Cliff

hopkirk

/tchill

I'm aware I haven't explained the lowest end much yet. I'll do that someday.

Fixed this for you.

That being said I don't understand why gamma is a top town read.

Could you explain your dave townread?

This is oddly out of place with Eevee's general impulsive posting style, not really asking any questions. I think it's the only request to explain a townread. Sort of implies Eevee agrees with the other townreads which we don't get a particular sense of anywhere.

im not really sure what to think of the watcher claim. its a weird fakeclaim for scum since watcher always felt better for a scum than a town. and cop/tracker would be better roles to claim here right? its easier to excuse not dying since a doctor can save them easier while i dont think a host would let a watcher doctor combo happen without super strong scum prs. all together i think we should let him be today. but if theres a vig feel free to shoot him.

Fence sitty. The last bit about a vig shot is particularly bad from someone who's 'not sure' about the claim.

Elementis if you are town always check the wiki. Thats teh first thing i would expect any player to do. Just looks liek your trying row back

im more disappointed he didnt ask the host

Don't see this comment really coming from someone who 'doesn't buy the claim' like Eevee allegedly doesn't at this point.

is me guessing and you saying yes or no allowed?

Other similar interactions with Elements around the claim like this don't fit the tone of Eevee's scumread of the claim. Eevee is going too hard on 'lay in out specifically' while not really delving into the more obvious 'how is it possible you can't claim' for someone who allegedly doesn't believe the claim.

I am not a fan of Bob. He initially voted for Elements for reasons 'setup spec'ing very early' etc

He then left the wagon, but came back when the lynch actually went through and when he put his vote on he said he didn't believe the macho/one shot claim.

My concern is that if I am casing a slot for being scummy I'd be like "woah guys I'm voting elements because he was setup speccing over in this post, plus now look at this macho claim it's gotta be BS" - i.e. case the whole ISO for a scum evidence - Bob didnt mention his initial setup spec concern when he votes due to his claim concern, which makes me believe he is looking for a reason to be on the wagon rather than actual scum hunting properly.

VOTE: Bob3141

Obviously I will hear him out but I'm just going to vote there for now.

I've looked at Tchill's ISO and someone is going to have to take me through the case here, he doesn't come across super town of the players I've looked at so far but I dont think he is the most scummy either at this point unless I've missed something of course.

That seems pretty reachy to me. Are you going to pick out everyone that voted for elements early in day one. By the time elementis made his watcher claim i was already sorting him as town. With me even calling out those who continued to push him.

Wasn't with till after his one shot macho watcher claim plus himself voting that made me reluctantly vote for him.

Straight watcher i believed. Macho watcher could be possible role but no townie should have mentioned the macho bit. Added to all that self voting. It just looked bad for town

Oneshot talk tipped me over the edge when it came to voting for him. I cant see why he mentioned that as he flipped just a macho watcher. I wonder if he was responding to once

per a night

---

I find it odd you overlook my scum hunting aswell. Did you not think kop has been scummy this game. Has he not done anything in your opinion to justify my vote on him before the wtacher saga. For you to think that doesnt even count as scum hunting.

He has yet to answer any of my points i think

I honestly think he shouldn't have said macho. He was in a really bad position as either faction. I probably shouldnt have voted him myself but i really wanted a lynch to go through and he became too much of a liability unfortunately.

Overjustifying the next day.

What do you think of Billy's VT claim?

I can see it as an opportunistic claim from mafia but it would put them in an extremely bad situation unless scum has a way to stop nea. If he is vt idt we should lynch him but its a tough call

Not taking a stance (resembling the rest of this iso). Tone reads poorly here.

Can you postpone the hammer until we get answers for the above questions

This is the first post I read since I was going backwards initially and why I said superobvscum. This is so Lamist. Eevee hasn't had a stated problem with Tchill before this. Eevee isn't concerned at all about the hammer, they're just saying 'let's wait a bit first'. Looks like they're actively avoiding the wagon. They hadn't voted ALL day to this point but are implicitly in favor of/happy with Tchill being lynched here.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

@LUV: can i prod Hectic in a way he's more likely to see?

[Hopkirk]

Not entirely sure why I disliked Tchill initially on a reread there. @Tchill: what's got you struggling to get into the game?

-Kork

[Hopkirk]

oh yeah, also the Tchill wagon collapsed without any votes going to the almost equally sized Eevee counterwagon. That feels odd when Alonzo then got wagoned for things Eevee was doing as much/more of.

[Hopkirk]

Ok I'll go through Kop like you asked yesterday Dave. Watch him handwave it with 'It was a month ago' then do a low effort catch up that results in nobody caring about his d1 play.

If cop did check the miller claim and actually gets a guilty, we're no further forward to the truth, because that claimed miller still could be scum. It would create a lot more WIFOM than anything else because we're left with a debate on either believing the claim or lynching said claim.

I also don't get why we are discussing what possible roles are out there. Rolefishing is scummy.

The last sentence is written unnaturally.

I'm guessing that there's only so much we can talk about day 1, even though for a large game 32 pages isn't much.

I expected us to lynch someone soon but either scums playing real good or the lynchbait is laying low.

Wanna predict the nightkill? Do you think scum will be cautious of jjd's whatever-the-fuck-cop-claim? Or will they realize it's a joke? Or is it?

What are we going to achieve by trying to predict the nightkill? You do realise that there is most likely going to be more than one kill.

im not liking the fact your speculating on the set up this early.

Is it early to start speculating? I just quite like doing it.

Im hoping for a third game were my initial impressions turn out to be right

Sorry to disappoint

I find rolefishing to what roles could be out there scummy, especially on day one. Because it just feels like it could be scum looking for reactions and get a feel of where the possible PR's are.

Setup speculating should be done at least day two once we have a night out of the way to see what we are up against.

Kop focuses a lot on this minor setup/night stuff 800 posts in without really giving reads. Read like he's looking for something to focus in on.

VOTE: Roster

Naked vote quoted for comments below.

I'm guessing that there's only so much we can talk about day 1, even though for a large game 32 pages isn't much.

I expected us to lynch someone soon but either scums playing real good or the lynchbait is laying low.

Wanna predict the nightkill? Do you think scum will be cautious of jjd's whatever-the-fuck-cop-claim? Or will they realize it's a joke? Or is it?

What are we going to achieve by trying to predict the nightkill? You do realise that there is most likely going to be more than one kill.

1. Who are you, where did you come from, why is this one of the first times I'm aware of your presence?

2. If town can work together-subtly-with the prs to prevent or predict a NK it will be favorable. Town can WIFOM scum with protective roles. Giving them a hard time is worth a minimal effort. Predicting can urge scum to rethink their decisions and possibly make ones less favorable to them. It prepares us for day two. Nobody was saying anything on the thread and I wanted something-anything-to talk about.

3. How the fuck is everyone so sure about a third faction or alternative killing role?

I don't know why this is the first time that your aware of my presence, maybe I never got involved with the whole RVS stage properly, or properly announce myself.

I have never played a game where we have tried to predict the nightkill so apologies on not seeing what kind of benefits it has. If I had actually participated in a game where I've seen it done and seen the affects it has, then I could have possibly had a different view on it, but since I've never been in a game where it has been done, I had a hard time seeing the negatives and positives it has.

And as for your third point, I thought I had seen someone quote a phrase that mentioned serial killer and I thought it was from the Mod. Reading back at the mods posts in this game, there was no mention of it so my bad for misreading into it, I don't know who quoted it so I can't check back on that either. However a game of this size, I'm going to presume that there will be a alternative killing role, possibly a vigilante, or another scum faction, or possibly a lone serial killer. Otherwise it's going to be quite a big mafia team if we're going to guess the ratio is 1 mafia to 4 town.

Again, oddly focused on speculation.

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

I don't like this vote, and also the explanation isn't up to the vote either. I just feel that it is a clean sheep vote because he likes the people that are on the wagon, I understand following your town reads, but there could be a possibility that there could be scum on the wagon that he is town reading. Or the other possibility is that Billy is scum and can have that confidence in the people on the wagon are town because he would know for sure they are town. He didn't like the Rooster wagon, but he would know that it would look bad for sheeping onto that wagon because of the manner and way the votes went.

He also states that he is not a fan of the Cliff slot, but hasn't really divulged into why he doesn't like that slot, or also interact with Cliff to debate with him to why he doesn't specifically like that slot.

VOTE: Billy

Hectic, we're trying to move onto a Cliff wagon given so many people don't want to vote roster

I see, I'll take your word for it O Great IC.

VOTE: Cliff

Don't like this vote either. No substance, but if it happened to be a lynch at some point, any questions aimed at this vote, wouldn't be justified because he can easily hide behind it was a pressure vote and I was told that this was the thing so I joined.

Guys, that’s my stunt double. I need him, or else I’d have to do my own stunts. I’m an alcoholic, how am I supposed to that drunk?

Sorry, but I think it's time to drop the gimmick and play Mafia. Prove to me that he has done some kind of scum hunting and I will let him be. I feel like his posts are mostly hollow though, so I don't see why you can't drop him and hire a double stunt that actually can do the work for you,

Can't disagree with any of this.

From above- two posts chainsaw defending Cliff without a clear townread on the slot.
The comment directly above has an odd abscence of mentioning Cliff's gimmick when Kop has a problem with Rick's gimmick - makes it look like his lack of Cliff interaction isn't just an accident. Scum equity or trying to pocket, either way not a fan.

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

I don't like this vote, and also the explanation isn't up to the vote either. I just feel that it is a clean sheep vote because he likes the people that are on the wagon, I understand following your town reads, but there could be a possibility that there could be scum on the wagon that he is town reading. Or the other possibility is that Billy is scum and can have that confidence in the people on the wagon are town because he would know for sure they are town. He didn't like the Rooster wagon, but he would know that it would look bad for sheeping onto that wagon because of the manner and way the votes went.

He also states that he is not a fan of the Cliff slot, but hasn't really divulged into why he doesn't like that slot, or also interact with Cliff to debate with him to why he doesn't specifically like that slot.

VOTE: Billy

So if you dont think it was a townie thing to sheep teh rooster wagon. Why did you also sheep it?

Based on someones comment that Rooster done naked votes in a previous game and he was scum. I believed it warranted some pressure. I was also never going to be on that wagon right till the end of the day.

Yeah, really don't like this one. The Rooster vote looked like everyone else's on a low activity slot let's build a wagon. Now Kop is trying overly hard to assign reasons and I don't buy he just saw that comment and thought 'I'll pressure that'

without evenen reading enough to see that Rooster was going to be replaced from inactivity

. Feels manufactured after the fact.

VOTE: Aaron

I can't disagree with any of the votes on him, I don't think it's a good idea voting a non counter claimed PR claim. Yes he may be fake claiming, but I believe in giving him a chance to try prove his claim, rather than lynching him without that chance.

lamist again but who cares, that's probably not an actual scumtell

I want elements or Cliff atm.

A last second flash is near certain to hit town. Scum will lurk it out.

Can you put your case out to why you would vote for both of them?

Is your elements vote based on what is usually used by scum, but IMO that's not exactly a concrete reason because 'usually' isn't exactly a motivation to scum read someone. But you've never built on that or necessarily interacted with him, and seem to be going on what everyone else has been given him and making your own mind up.

I do get what your saying about a last second flash wagon is likely to hit town or possibly out another PR. I would rather not go for the watcher, and if Cliff is anything other than a PR, I'd likely like to go for the VT.

Still odd that he hasn't given any sort of read on Cliff or interacted with Cliff (or even tried to interact) when he immediately seems to discount the Cliff wagon as a possibility here. Goes for different ones.

Man I've got a lot to catch up on, I've just got back off holiday. This is going to take some time.

VOTE: tchill

Im not fully caught up, but why are you Voting for a claimed tracker? We fucked up and ended up lynching a claimed watcher which proved true.

Why are you voting for people who either vote for you or shout for your lynch?

This is all we've had d2. Honestly I feel like anyone who doesn't post for two weeks should just be force replaced.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Titus is a hard null with minor scum equity from voting patterns. I want other people's thoughts on the slot, how Titus usually acts, and I want to actually hear stuff from Titus.

[Hopkirk]

Solid town from what I've reread today: Aaron Frost/Hectic/Carcalilly/Texcat/Garmr/Billy/Tchill
More may join, but I haven't got the full reread done yet.
Alonzo feels town purely from the pushes surrounding them, not from content.
Titus is null.

VOTE: Eevee
Eevee is scum. Kop is likely scum.

Still to reread:
Cliff Booth
Rick Dalton
Judge Joseph Dredd
Titus
roosterfoster/gobbledygook
davesaz
profii
bob3141

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

tchill is on my never lynch list hopkirk. along with gamma carcalilly. ive been looking for a third to add. someone suggested profii which i dont mind.

You don't say you scumread him directly. What you said, and what I quoted, is this:

Can you postpone the hammer until we get answers for the above questions

The reader of this can easily infer that you don't have a problem with someone hammering Tchill since you ask for the hammer to be

postponed

instead of saying you don't want the hammer or asking any questions about it. It's implicit from your actions that you wouldn't have a problem with the hammer, but you don't directly say you want it either.

[Hopkirk]

@Dave: how come you haven't wanted an explained readslist from Eevee, or Kop, or Titus, or Gobble, or Tchill who never explained his scumread on me beyond a sentence, or Rick who just says stuff (which I think is his meta though), or literally anyone else?

[Hopkirk]

Looking back Dave lurked as scum when I played with scum-Dave too. I remember someone else mentioning that Dave lurked as scum when they played.
Are the townreads there basically meta like a Creature read?

[Hopkirk]

@JJD: what's your RickFD read?

[Hopkirk]

i don't remember a doctor claim that looked serious. Maybe I forgot since doctor shuldn't claim here

[Hopkirk]

how do you know it's a he. It is but how do you know

[Hopkirk]

I don't think there's anything I dislike about Gobble.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

i just went to the generic term. if u know who did could u tell me maybe?

Rick. Doesn't change my read on him.

The search this thread (idk if this works on mobile which I guess you might be on) came up with it.

[Hopkirk]

JJD has an odd lack of interactions with a lot of people and some pretty odd interactions in general.

pedit- it's essential if you play any of those greatest idea style games.

[Hopkirk]

going to go through the voting history. will do that this weekend as i will need to make my own vote counts of day one to analysis.

but first thing that stands out from lil vc is this

roosterfoster (5): Elements, Gamma Emerald, Kop, davesaz, profii

roosterfoster (5): x, x, Kop, davesaz, profii

Now we might have 8 players more but we also have more scum.

Im fleeing its very likely one of kop, dave and profi is scum.

doubt its dave and with me feelign strongest about kop

This is why I really liked Bob. It felt so nonsensical he doesn't feel informed/feels more like new town who thinks they've got something (when what he's saying is actually less effective when he said it than literally picking names at random).

I'll reread Bob properly eventually.

[Hopkirk]

I'll look at Bob/Profii eventually but I'm very busy and this is pretty much the only evening I could spare to dedicate.

(Eevee, Cliff, Kop, Titus, JJD) is the scumpool (excluding deepwolves and potentially the two i didn't look at today)

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Just came in to say I'm NOT gonna read. I have hit the point of no return with how apathetic this game has become. I gained no new info from D2 posts that I had read, and I don;t see much of anything going on. It's like everyone is isolated on a different island and every single one of us believes the world ends where their line of sight does.

I can understand this sentiment honestly. This game has been very chaotic and hard to follow. I think scum is content with the current gamestate because there's been a lot of confusion and very little cohesion with this group of players.

Basically why I'm leaning against scum Alonzo. There hasn't been a counterwagon and it got too quiet when the wagon started to build.

I can see a fair few scum just lurking.

Any thoughts on my recent thoughts?

[Hopkirk]

I'm only in this game because Elements/Hectic signed up- so I'm rapidly losing interest when there's this little posting going on, half the game is barely posting (which really kills my enthusiasm too), and those two are dead/inactive.
Currently working full time + studying for exams every evening + other commitments/studying all weekend gives me very little time for mafia. That should probably explain why I haven't put/won't be putting all that much work into this beyond occasional bursts.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Fortunately you're both in my townblock so neither of you are getting mislynched from here on out.

[Hopkirk]

tbh i thought you and KOP were the same person for a while LMAO

Guess you could call him...

Kopkirk

Do you

mind

Unfortunely for Kop if he ever wants to hydra with Hectic, he probably won't go for Koptic.

[Hopkirk]

although the name is growing on me. Hit me up after December 11th if you want to make the Kopkirk hydra happen Kop

[Hopkirk]

well my vote is there, let's do the wagon

[Hopkirk]

Titus flips scum if JJD does btw.

I should reread JJD more thoroughly too but I don't think it's a townread from me.

[Hopkirk]

Obvious place to look would be after Tchill claimed where Eevee was the second biggest wagon but didn't get any increase to the wagon, the votes around then that could lead to alternative wagons, and the Alonzo wagon that actually arose afterwards instead of Eevee. titus fits in pretty nicely for one.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

You're on 3 or 4 votes Eevee. What made you think you could have been hammered.

[Hopkirk]

@Dave: how come you haven't wanted an explained readslist from Eevee, or Kop, or Titus, or Gobble, or Tchill who never explained his scumread on me beyond a sentence, or Rick who just says stuff (which I think is his meta though), or literally anyone else?

Oh heya couple pages happened.
My supply of round toits ran out.

Hi, it's your local Dave translator here. What does Dave's unexplained obscure phrase that understanding his post relies on mean this time? Well that's anyone's guess. Apparently 'toits' can mean 'rooftops, tight or tits' none of which make any sense in that context, and a search of 'toit' on mafiascum doesn't come up with anything. It's almost enough to make you think he doesn't care about people understanding him and would be more comfortable just yelling at a wall or something. Preferably a short wall since he'll need some sunlight to counteract all this shade and these personal attacks I'm throwin' at 'im.

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk doesn't look good with the what about others defense.

You're going to need to be a lot more specific by what you mean here. Currently this is you just handwaving/trying to avoid commenting on anything specific.

Hopkirk doesn't look good with the what about others defense.

Do you think that's all he's doing?

In that post, yes.

In this poorly thought out post we see Titus referencing a single Hopkirk post despite there being 30 of them and giving absolutely no indication which one she's talking about.

Right now, I think Alonzo has a high chance of being scum due to the last second counter on EEarmy

What counter? The Eevee wagon collapsed because there was no momentum earlier when it became the leading wagon.

Currently we lynch Eevee and we vig Titus.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Alonzo

We need to consolidate

Just get back on Eevee and we won't have any trouble.

How are you happy with Alonzo and Eevee wagons? Are you thinking the scum weren't able to drive a single wagon the entire day (when there's probably ~5?) I guess I could see that with some of the suspicious inactives.

-Hipkork

[Hopkirk]

What's your Eevee read Bob?

[Hopkirk]

By trouble I meant 'I want you to vote Eevee. If you don't I'm going to threaten you in a manner than means absolutely nothing, but the phrasing of which sounds funny to me'.

About half the Alonzo wagon was allegedly willing to vote Eevee there.

[Hopkirk]

Remember everyone, the big shoots titus tonight.

[Hopkirk]

Remember everyone, the big shoots titus tonight.

How do you know a vig exists? Personally I prefer Eevee. I feel like their reaction to getting voted “oh you hammered” was fake.

I could see the benefit in a wagon on Eevee tomorrow.
Although given Eevee is confirmed scum at this point might as well just shoot.

[Hopkirk]

So lets see who was on Eevee and who said they'd consider being there

[Hopkirk]

Rick Dalton/Hopkirk/Texcat
Aaron- up for voting Eevee
Dave- up for voting Eevee
Gobble- only not voting as wanted lynch
(6 definite votes)

Billy- maybe.
Eevee- maybe.
JJD- wanted it earlier. Doesn’t acknowledge it now.

Bob- huh, hasn’t done anything in the last week
Titus- against
Kop- Literally didn’t post (except a prod dodge) for the entire 2 week day phase. Not sure why this wasn’t force replaced.
Carcalilly- against
Tchill- ?
Garmr- ?
Hectic- he’d have gone on Eevee but he probably wouldn’t have been online before deadline.
Cliff- hasn’t mentioned Eevee yet this game.

[Hopkirk]

The amount of inactive town is revolting.

@Hectic
@Carcalilly
@Tchill
@Garmr

Step it up tomorrow.

[Hopkirk]

i dont get how you went to confirmed scum yet didnt answer my question?

Which question

[Hopkirk]

if this flips red what are potential partners people who lynched this

I'm still saying this flips town due to wagon dynamics so I don't think you meant this one.

whats like the lead reason to scumread me? my weird tone? or lackluster activity overall?

I made a case yesterday.
Your tone clearly comes from your normal gamestyle being hour long at most games.

[Hopkirk]

I probably die tonight unless scum are dumb. Either Eevee or Titus dies too.

Lynch: Cliff/JJD/Titus/Eevee.
Look at closely (Kop/Profii/Bob).
Consider if scum or pocketed after the JJD scumflip: Dave.

[Hopkirk]

wait, was alonzo the doctor claim from earlier?

also.....your read on me hasnt changed at all since yesterday?

What are you talking about. I've been online for twenty minutes today. Why would you expect my read to have changed after I spent about a thousand words casing you yesterday?

[Hopkirk]

@LUV: can i prod Hectic in a way he's more likely to see?

[Hopkirk]

btw, I need this game to finish by like early-mid November for exam stuff. If we have another night as long as the last one then I'll probably sub out if I'm still alive since there's be no way I could see it to completion without taking a month long V/La (which might be allowed actually looking at the Kop situation).

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk doesn't look good with the what about others defense.

Hopkirk, I'll admit I haven't been my best here. Real life got dramatic and it's just now stabilizing.

How about you explain what you actually mean here before night? I feel a rewording would do.

[Hopkirk]

Rick claimed Doctor earlier.
I did not believe that claim.

[Hopkirk]

It's getting hard to find a good time of the year to play online mafia.

October-December: exam prep
January-March: busy season in audit
April-June: exam prep

At the moment this game marginally more interesting than gift relief on share undervalues. That's unlikely to still be the case by day 5.

[Hopkirk]

Have you got a read on JJD/Cliff btw Aaron?

[Hopkirk]

Mafia flat out instalose if it gets to lylo unless they kill either me or Hectic before then.
Killing me quiets the game down a lot.
I've crumbed more than I should have.
People are expecting the Carcalilly kill which makes it bad.

[Hopkirk]

Plus ya know, the gamesolve.

[Hopkirk]

I mean yeah you clearly die here but let's make it a tougher choice for them.

[Hopkirk]

I've been kind of assuming you're Flavor Leaf here?

[Hopkirk]

Ah, the whole third person bit was a bit confusing for a moment but I got it.
I think one of my most recent games (had a bit of a break for work/exam stuff) was us as masons. I remember we gelled well.

What's your Cliff read looking like?

[Hopkirk]

I was townreading him based on the assumption he was flavourleaf.
'You’re acting like townFL' made me want to confirm since that's an odd way to talk about yourself.

[Hopkirk]

How big is the neighbourhood cliff? Probably looking at some town in there.

Kop can you give a reads list with enough detail that I can have any confidence you've caught up?

I'll post sometime after work.

-hop

[Hopkirk]

Proffi is as close to confirmed town as anyone outside Carca/hectic are going to get.

I'm happy to see my scumpool appears to be the only people we are considering voting for.



-hop

[Hopkirk]

What's the reason for claimed watcher/voyeurs to not reveal results?

There's no claimed watchers for one thing.

-Kork

[Hopkirk]

the gobble kill makes me wonder why him

we have claimed tracker , voyer. a suriving mason. And a few other claims

There could be a chance that they are leaving them alive, to keep some doubts that they are telling the truth about there claim.

I understand that leaving those roles in the game, it gives them a chance of finding scum or hitting lucky and catching one of them out, but scum must have confidence in a game of this size they might not be anywhere near them and they won't get caught at this stage of the game.

but the shear amount of claims wouldnt scum of knocked one off. Unless one of teh pool is scum and they dont want to reduce its size

the gobble kill makes me wonder why him

we have claimed tracker , voyer. a suriving mason. And a few other claims

There could be a chance that they are leaving them alive, to keep some doubts that they are telling the truth about there claim.

I understand that leaving those roles in the game, it gives them a chance of finding scum or hitting lucky and catching one of them out, but scum must have confidence in a game of this size they might not be anywhere near them and they won't get caught at this stage of the game.

but the shear amount of claims wouldnt scum of knocked one off. Unless one of teh pool is scum and they dont want to reduce its size

I agree with you. That could be another factor of why they haven't shot inside of that pool.

You know one of the claims is a mason right? I don't think shrinking the pool scum can be in is a concern there.

[Hopkirk]

So we're going for Eevee, then JJD, then Titus then we decide whether we want to go Cliff/Bob/Kop next.

VOTE: Eevee

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Am I confirmed town yet Garmr?

[Hopkirk]

Well tell me why we should do one of those other 5 first.

Hey Hectic, you want to gamesolve a bit?

[Hopkirk]

Very disappointed Tchill didn't have me as locktown last time he posted.

How about you Garmr-the-town?

[Hopkirk]

titus has best scum equity here

[Hopkirk]

Proffi is as close to confirmed town as anyone outside Carca/hectic are going to get.

I'm happy to see my scumpool appears to be the only people we are considering voting for.



-hop

Why hectic I missed that
Why not query anything I said

Because either
a.) another neighbor claims and we consider which is real.
b.) the setup contains a traitor and their scumpartner, there's nobody else in the hood, and the traitor knows who their scumpartner is. IN ADDITION the traitor crumbed traitor several times and the scum killed their traitor instead of a mason just to make you look more town.
c.) it's real and you're basically confirmed town

B requires 3 unlikely stretches and I'm not even close to buying the first stretch. That makes it C for now and C guaranteed if nobody else claims within the next day irl

Hectic is just town.
@Hectic: can you also confirm I'm just town?

[Hopkirk]

@LUV

: can you go through the old vote counts and adjust the numbers voting, or confirm that they're accurate and there's double votes/similar in play?

2782- 5 on eevee 4 names on
2946- 2 on eevee 3 names on
3340 - I wasn't using the doublevote here and I'm on twice. Wrong numbers on Alonzo. Texcat on two people.

Probably more, this is just from a glance at 3 of the VCs

[Hopkirk]

On Rick
1st: seems meaningless.
2nd: feels too on the nose. Definitely a traitor crumb, not convinced it's a message to Rick specifically.

Hopkirk
1st one: Relevant context is that I gave those comments about everyone.
2nd one: That sounds like Gobble is asking why I scumread Tchill which I hadn't actually said at that point.
3rd: Not sure what you're pointing to there.

Gobble doesn't vote Eevee until the Eevee wagon breaks down a bit.

Given Gobble said to Profii that he wanted to check Eevee or me, I can see him having the plan to check and defend Eevee afterwards.
@Profii: how exactly did Gobble present his picks to check and did he argue much for an Eevee check? He'd have had to either tell you that Eevee had a gun (scum) or not afterwards based on his fakeclaim.
He needs to make it look like he's against Eevee day end to do that, but doesn't consider joining the Eevee counterwagon when it starts again, moving to Alonzo instead to 'consolidate'.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Could the scum team be like

Judge/Hopkirk/Rick/Eevee?/ Traitor gobble?

You're saying if Judge flips town Titus doesn't? What?

What are your thoughts on the Eevee/Alonzo wagon yesterday with this scumteam in mind?

[Hopkirk]

A bit too obvious dont ya think?

@which post?

[Hopkirk]

There's no way a traitor is stupid enough to <3 only scumpartners unless they're doing it specifically for Wifom which is dumb in itself.

[Hopkirk]

The roleflip makes it very clear he knew his partners.

gobbledygook

has died during the night. He was:

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome, ____, to Large Normal 223. Your role is Mafia Traitor Rolecop Neighbor

You are a Mafia Traitor. The remainder of your scumteam is [REDACTED]. If you are the last remaining member of your scumteam, you will be endgamed by town.

Once, during the night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn that player's role.

You are part of a neighborhood [HERE], in which you may talk at any time while you are alive.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

[Hopkirk]

Not killing the Mason = Garmr town imo.

[Hopkirk]

A bit too obvious dont ya think?

@which post?

The 4 scum post

What do you mean 'too obvious' then?

On Rick
1st: seems meaningless.
2nd: feels too on the nose. Definitely a traitor crumb, not convinced it's a message to Rick specifically.

Hopkirk
1st one: Relevant context is that I gave those comments about everyone.
2nd one: That sounds like Gobble is asking why I scumread Tchill which I hadn't actually said at that point.
3rd: Not sure what you're pointing to there.

Gobble doesn't vote Eevee until the Eevee wagon breaks down a bit.

Given Gobble said to Profii that he wanted to check Eevee or me, I can see him having the plan to check and defend Eevee afterwards.
@Profii: how exactly did Gobble present his picks to check and did he argue much for an Eevee check? He'd have had to either tell you that Eevee had a gun (scum) or not afterwards based on his fakeclaim.
He needs to make it look like he's against Eevee day end to do that, but doesn't consider joining the Eevee counterwagon when it starts again, moving to Alonzo instead to 'consolidate'.

-Hop

"Check" means nothing since he claimed gunsmith to him right? Or did he claim the investigation gunsmith not the give dayvig gunsmith

You might want to read what Profii said too. He claimed the investigative type to Profii so he'd have hard commit to his check being an innocent/guilty (or vig).

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Could the scum team be like

Judge/Hopkirk/Rick/Eevee?/ Traitor gobble?

You're saying if Judge flips town Titus doesn't? What?

What are your thoughts on the Eevee/Alonzo wagon yesterday with this scumteam in mind?

well the scum positioning on alonzo makes sense but two on eevee makes me feel like the crumb wasn't meant for eevee but judge.

Their were no potential crumbs before that post with eevee so it's possible that He was trying to communicate with judge about his neighbourhood and not actually crumb. Which would mean profii is even more confirmed town.

VOTE: Judge Dread

VOTE: JJD

This is also fine. JJD has bad positioning around every wagon. There's interactions we had before I didn't like. He left Eevee and didn't come back yesterday too so more scum association point there.

Profii is so town he's almost as town as Hectic.

[Hopkirk]

Scum doc on Eevee makes sense to why our vig didn't shoot successfully last night

[Hopkirk]

Why does someone think that gobble accidentally outted one of his scumbuddies?

Wouldnt the traitor be trying to steer people away from scum? If so, wasn't the kill to try and frame someone? And if so, wouldnt that mean the people that gobble was scumreading are more likely town?

Read the latest post also accidentally outing is not a controllable thing. What do you think about judge?

So are you saying accidental or intentional outing?

[Hopkirk]

Hectic has been known to reference the wiki from time to time JJD is saying.

Hectic is clean because I say so. Throw in some meta and a few trust tells and it'll be fine. Welcome him to our townblock family Carca

[Hopkirk]

You trust me fully right? I'm vouching for him here. Come on, my last hydra avatar was an anime rat girl. We're basically family here.

[Hopkirk]

I wouldn't quite call it a trust tell so much as vague mumbles about scumrange.

[Hopkirk]

Yeah, it doesn't count as a trust tell if he doesn't even know what it is I'm looking at.

[Hopkirk]

Proffi is as close to confirmed town as anyone outside Carca/hectic are going to get.

Sorry I missed it, but why is Hectic confirmed again?

to quote myself

Hectic is clean because I say so.

I'm vouching for him here.

Hectic is just town.

-H
-O
-P

[Hopkirk]

claiming masons?

It sure looks like it, and the start of Hopkirk ISO confirms it.

Can you quit trying to out prs. You saw what happened to the first set of masons. Why are you trying to kill the 'effective masons' now.

-Hec

[Hopkirk]

Anyone mind if we start posting as Hoptic now as long as we sign our posts really well?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Let's just say you're not getting lynched today

[Hopkirk]

Can you summaries what you were saying about me earlier Carcalilly? Was it more than 'you get ridiculously passive aggressive when people shade you'?/anything you wanted a response to?

what if there's some wild reason that scum keeps killing

half

of neighborhood/mason communities

what if they're planning something

Oh damn it Hectic, JC must have slipped

that

role in here. Didn't realize

he

was allowed in normals.

[Hopkirk]

Random power role- I don't think we should lynch garmr today becuase of my role.

Everyone else- Lets run a counter wagon on garmr against probable scum and pretend there isn't any case on judge.

was this me or some other pr?

[Hopkirk]

so we have carc and proffi prety much confirmed now. Well unless profii is 3rd party


profii claims back up tracker. Which means we have a tracker.

I swear if people keep forgetting me and Hectic there... it's like you want me to

dissolve

[/i] you.

The fact that I wasn't killed last night makes me suspect JJD and Eevee believe it or not. And Cliff is unfortunately being cleared of suspicion in my eyes.

Is this for

reasons

or can you expand on it?

[Hopkirk]

He'll claim what I tell him to claim.

Do you still think he's a survivor too and do you believe the miller part was a realclaim (scum claiming it counts too).

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

I like to make my thought process clear so I tend to spew flow of consciousness /don't generally reread a post after I finish typing it.
I think the ones you quoted were where I was also attacking what was being asked of me because the questions were dodgy/indicated odd thought processes from the perspective of the person asking.

I do need to try rereading posts and cutting out every word that isn't 100% necessary sometime though. Want to see how that would go.

-Kirk (an essential word)

[Hopkirk]

You letting Hectic in the confirmed town block with us or nah? What if I said I

hard

vouched for him?

[Hopkirk]

I found 4 yesterday. You're welcome.

[Hopkirk]

It's like nobody even pays attention to crumbs.
Or two killers I guess.

Do you have a problem with Hectic here? Do you have him as anything other than a strong townread? I'd like to know why if not.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like you don't want us talking about the Cliff wagon here Bob.

[Hopkirk]

Why would you out a role that gets weaker when outed based on a result on someone who's already obvscum.

-hop

[Hopkirk]

If anyone ever has a problem with hectic later then think about how they don't have one right now. Last chance for scumreads there.

[Hopkirk]

Next two properties after the scumslip are Titus and Eevee. Everyone

remember.

[Hopkirk]

I don't like how hop has been on my case hard and seemingly tried to pussyfoot around it other than implying I'm town that just hindered my own power role

Considering he was scumreading you and based on the context, I think he was calling you the obvscum. I may be wrong here.

No, JJD is/was the obvscum. I had a scumread there since the end of D2 and JJD flips scum whether cliff is legit town or bussing scum.

Cliff I've got concerns about. In one of the most recent games I played (modded) I saw a scum reveal a guilty (received through a medium) when they realized their partner was getting lynched. I'm not discounting cliff being a scum fruit vendor (no modifiers), but I'm also consider that cliff could be legit. That's why I'm saying we lynch JJD/Eevee/Titus as top priorities, not lynch cliff now.

How was that Carca?

[Hopkirk]

@hectic who was in that game- can you confirm Prometheus/samthony happened like I described there.

[Hopkirk]

It's been

over a month

since Kop posted actual content- taking a stance, giving a read, or talking about anything other than minor setup spec.

Cliff gets lynched today, but Kop is a policy lynch for me at this point.

[Hopkirk]

Was Profii confirmed or semi-confirmed? I've forgotten stuff over the irritatingly long night.

[Hopkirk]

100% Confirmed town or this isn’t a normal

Carcalilly
Davesaz

I have reasons to townread pool

Billy (VT/fruit vendor stuff)
Hectic (meta- not mechanical)
Rick (without doctor CC)
Texcat (townread/track)
AaronFrost (townread/some meta- not mechanical)

Claims

Garmr
Profii

Everyone else

Kop
Cliff Booth
EeveeLution Army
Titus
bob3141

If Cliff flips town Bob is town hence (Kop/Eevee/Titus) are scum. If a scum backup watcher flips then we lynch Profii. Otherwise we don’t lynch Profii.
If Cliff flips scum I’d also want to lynch that pool of 4 (Titus/Eevee/Kop/Bob).

[Hopkirk]

Billy is in the pool of people we reconsider after lynching everyone in the scumpool (you, Kop, Eevee, Titus, and bob if you flip scum)

[Hopkirk]

Billy is in the pool of people we reconsider after lynching everyone in the scumpool (you, Kop, Eevee, Titus, and bob if you flip scum)

If you flip town he's confirmed town.
If you flip scum I townread him anyway until we get to massclaim time at which point we're at the point we can start resolving prs.

[Hopkirk]

Ok, I'll be the IC or I'll get a guilty on a claimed vanilla cop. Check me I'm a VT.

No one else claim VT. Jailer can be on me to keep me alive. I'm not going anywhere. Although if there's a possibility that scum have a watcher maybe don't be on me.

Given Billy mentioned Vanilla Cop rather than neapolitan, if he's scum he's a goon.
Still leaning to town though.

[Hopkirk]

Do you disagree with any of the categories I have people in (excepting yourself/Bob)?

[Hopkirk]

You're still claiming you got fruit right?

Is there a way that can happen without you getting roleblocked and JJD getting coincidental fruit from elsewhere?

[Hopkirk]

Oh the hood is why Profii is in the confirmed town catagory. I forgot about that.

[Hopkirk]

Hop I'm confused. I never got fruit. I lied about that.

I sent fruit to jjd n1 and he didn't receive it.

To billy n2 and he did receive it.

To bob n3 and he did receive it.

Can you link where you explained exactly why you lied about it.

[Hopkirk]

I don't see why you'd ever fake a second guilty on someone you've already got the one guilty on.

-Kork

[Hopkirk]

I've never had anything at night fruit wise.

[Hopkirk]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80577&user_select[]=33131
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80540&start=925
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=80753&user_select[]=33131

I'm going to go with a nice townread on Aaron actually.

1950- scumgame finishing the same time this started. Aaron doesn't really give a read on anyone for 200 posts. Barely townreads anyone, scumreads aren't particulrly justified.
1949- Catch up is very similar to this game. Gives a lot of reads early on. Changes reads (two townreads for most of the game flip to scumreads)
1954- frequent reads

This game- catch up mirrors thought process in 1949. Mind changes frequently enough (excuse the formatting). Not afraid to give reads. The previous scumtopic (1950) that ended when this started makes me think Aaron wouldn't go into this as confidently as he did with the reads list. Some of the Ate earlier sounds legitimate.

This is where I changed my mind on Aaron @Hectic. How different to you think he feels to what you've played with? I obviously wasn't in these games so it's kind of second hand. I'll probably reread the slot sometime soon.

[Hopkirk]

I'll get to you Billy.

sad that my scumread got confirmed town. what roles can actually do that in a normal? publishing cop?

And that's a sad thing why? Because you're scum and can't push that mislynch anymore?

Scum pool right now (in the event Cliff flips town) is {Eevee, Kop, Titus, tex, Hopkirk, Hectic}

Mostly slots with low content who've been sitting back watching town destroy itself.

In the event Cliff flips scum, Dalton could be a partner. Not too sure who else atm.

Are you expecting Cliff to flip town? You seem to have less thought put into 'if he flips scum' here.

I'm not confirmed town and neither is Hectic. Hopkirk keeps insisting Hectic is town but I don't trust it.

You got a problem with Hectic 'Hectic' Hectic?

Since I've basically exposed the entire reason I'm wanting an answer for this anyway,

I should clarify that the person that I actually sent fruit to on night one

hasnt answered yet.

I am very close to laying down my Cliff vote.
I'm happy to hear out how this is going to go but I think Cliff has to go.

Obviously Cliff is going to say 'well I really sent my fruit to xxxxx on N1' and I cannot see any kind of subtle nod from anyone suggesting they got the fruit and being ok that Cliff was posing a guilty on JJD when someone else knew it was infact just a guess.

So whoever this is person ends up being, Cliff + that person are going to have to go some to convince me that it's true.

My best guess is Cliff is a scum disloyal simple FV and he gave Billy the fruit to try and give credit to his own narrative as obviously Billy claimed so that was an easy win for Cliff.

That would suggest Bob is a VT which would be proven if Cliff flips as per my prediction but I dont know as I'm just musing right now so I will sit patiently and wait for the tale of this fruit and we will make a decision from there I guess

If Cliff flipped exactly that then there's obviously also the possibility he'd have not used his action (on one/two of the two nights) so a partner could be fake confirmed.

Ah, was confusing Vanilla Cop with Neopolitan. So many roles I've memorised from the wiki that I sometimes get confused in my own mind palace.
Makes your claim slightly town-indicative in that case.

Only slightly town indicitave? There is zero reason to claim vt in that situation when we thought there was a nea.

Hectic I can never get a good read on you.

I want to hear more about how you feel about me and Hectic.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Billy's town. His scumgame was reserved/cautious/as far as I can tell he subbed out due to pressure from it. He has a lot of natural feeling posts this game.

Oh man, hectic and hopkirk are both going to make this game fun to read and infuriating to play. I don't have a clue how to read them, but it's enjoyable at least. Can't tell if carcalilly was joking, because that was a bit LAMIST. Carca were you joking?

VOTE: Carcalilly

Hectic's survivor crumb had me dying.

bad post

vote: billy pilgrim

JEEP's guide to catching mafia told me that naked votes with little explanation like this are usually bad.
Do you dislike his post because he's LAMISTing it up and not scumhunting?

i don't know what LAMIST means, tbh.

i didn't like the post because it was a long way of saying "i have no reads" while trying to appear to be substantive. and the questioning of carca + the immediate vote makes me feel like he genuinely wasn't interested in learning carca's perspective, and did it as filler.

is hectic an alt

no

he's town then (or rather, not lying about being survivor)

How does this knowledge affect your Hectic read?
I liked your entrance.

because his tone is extremely earnest and passionate about the game. but if it was an old user doing a "haha i'm so new" gimmick then it wouldn't be as genuine

What if he was an experienced mafia player, not necessarily with the experience being from mafiascum, with a 'sordid' history of memeing, and who had a humorous discussion with me last week about the flailing statistics.

he's probably still town in that case. i'm sure some of the stuff he's saying is a meme, though.

Ok makes sense. It's early, so this was basically my way of directing a question to Carcalilly while we are still in LIVS. LAMIST means look at me I'm so town. Her comment about worrying about Hectic pointing out breadcrumbs in response to what I thought was a pretty obvious joke came across to me as her trying to score easy townpoints. That's why I asked if it was a joke. And I didn't read it as a joke initially, which is why I directed the vote there.

And as for my comments that I can't read Hectic and Hopkirk, I mean that. The jokey posts come across as though they're not game solving, but they're legit nai, so sorting them is tough. Yet for some reason I decided to torture myself by replacing into this game.

Tone is super sincere here, and in general in discussion to memeing and Hectic.

@Gamma - I agree that I'm probably having trouble working my way into this game. It's ALOT larger than I'm used to, and it's insanely active. I think games been up for 36 hours and we're on page 22 already. So I'll be along.

Pedit: I'm not playing devil's advocate. My pm jumped out at me this time, because I'm used to them being green or red. Not sure why that wasn't noticeable for others, but it seems like everyone's letting this slide, and your play felt like you were sorting. That felt like the first scummy thing I could see, so now I'm left with nothing.

UNVOTE: Carcalilly

Wait why didn't you vote me here. Carcalilly using 'green pm' to mean town makes sense, but I clearly didn't realize there wasn't colour in the pm- as you mentioned earlier.

-Hop

Couldn't tell whether yours was a test or whether it was a slip. Given that there had already been discussion I thought you may have been fishing for reasoning which I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my post. I thought hers was the bigger outlier since she used it. You defending was suspect, but I figured it may have been you trying to draw out my reasoning.

This is the kind of thing newbscum latches onto and spends half the day tunneling. Billy seems to consider whether it's actually likely (see follow on in his iso). Reads aren't influenced which seems like a townie play, avoiding focusing on something he could call a policy lynch for a few days.

Judges recent posts are making me like that slot more. I think I've already said I like tchill's slot. I'm not sure why YAzg keeps voting my townreads, but it's definitely making me more skeptical of her slot.

My gut is telling me that this is simply you trying to back track on a push. While also using it to stear towards another. Makes me your scum thinking after Judges claims it would be to risky to push there. With you instead hoping to stear instead to another player that has been pushing him. All the while making a point of no longer scum reading him. So what made you like his slot more, that would of been the case before?

I just dont get why the first part was even posted. And on the later half care to tell us why YAzg pushes on those players you townread makes you as you put it skeptical of her slot. So why a scum leaning over a leaning toward town making misguided pushes. And what in the posts makes you feel its not genuine scum hunting


Your the other player that has pinged me so far. There is just this uneasy feeling im getting on your slot.

Did I really push Judge? I said there wasnt what I would consider game solvey content there, then it changed. If you don't see a difference in Judge's content then I guess this makes sense, but it started to look alot more like sorting and much less memey. And I posted that part because I had answered a question from Carcalilly about his slot earlier.

I liked the way she came in the game, and immediately started sorting. I probably read too much into the comment about the green pm. But if someone is scumreading your townreads, that is tough to square. I didn't say I'm scumreading her, I said it's making me more skeptical of the slot, which means I need to re-read it with a fresh eye.

Tone is super sincere. Easy to follow thought process.

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

Don't see this admission coming from scum. More likely to get defensive. His slot hasn't really been that bad so it sounds more like town guilt than anything.

@AaronFrost I agree that taking care of college stuff first is the right priority. Replacing in is good for the site, but it's better when you do it only when you're ready to play.

What was this in response to?

Nevermind, found it. Damn this game is unwieldy.

What he subbed out for as scum last time.

Ok, I'll be the IC or I'll get a guilty on a claimed vanilla cop. Check me I'm a VT.

No one else claim VT. Jailer can be on me to keep me alive. I'm not going anywhere. Although if there's a possibility that scum have a watcher maybe don't be on me.

Still don't think scum want to claim this. Not unless they've got a backup watcher (like town watcher/scum backup, scum tracker/town backup seems plausible). Even then it's clearly easier to just target Carcalilly.

@Billy: meta is why I switched on you when I had time to do some stuff.

[Hopkirk]

The dozen posts I make surrounding that one are where I reread most of the game and got townreads on you/Tex, higher scumread on Titus/Eevee etc.

[Hopkirk]

Although that was after I switched to a townread on you^ I'd done some reskimming on you and Tchill beforehand and decided I bought the claim.

It's getting hard to remember exactly with these super long nights which irritatingly cover the periods I can actually post during. I'm basically not free from Thursday/Saturday/Sunday this week so tonight/maybe Friday briefly are the only times I can really post.

Not sure why you're saying I said you were 'obvtowning' when we clearly established that was just my townreads (since I had 3 catagories, superobvtown obvtown and scum). Adding the 'obv' thing here makes your question seem less genuine.

[Hopkirk]

As a side note, it's going to be fairly hard for me (and maybe Hectic) to post from the 29th-1st as well.

I feel like Aaron 'fucking' Frost is the top reread priority for Hop 'Hopkirk' Hop at the moment. Let's look at those Titus/Eevee/Cliff interactions. I'll throw in Bob and Kop too if i'm feeling generous. I still need to reread Bob properly at some point don't I.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

@Tex: Cliff should 100% be the lynch. Cliff likely just self hammers at L1. Are you voting him because you're happy for the day to end?

[Hopkirk]

Aaron FF also shaded me for it I think.

[Hopkirk]

Aaron 'waits until Hectic says he doesn't townread Aaron to decide to not townread Hectic' Frost.

I gave him so many opportunities to say anything negative about Hectic when I made a dozen posts about Hectic being close enough to confirmed town.
I said anyone who wants to say anything bad about Hectic should say it then or should read him as town.
Aaron's problems with Hectic are clearly something that he had a problem with back when I said this.
I want to know why he didn't raise his problems with reading Hectic then.

[Hopkirk]

Obviously he disagrees with my townread but he never goes to say why he doesn't townread you/why he scumreads you.

Let's take a look through Aaron.

[Hopkirk]

Searching for where he mentions you is very complicated.
Stop giving people sig quotes.

[Hopkirk]

I hope Aaron is ok. He never made that readslist he said he would two weeks ago. I'm hoping he isn't faking his death to avoid the thread (pulling a 'Kop')

[Hopkirk]

Let's not hammer until we've forced Kop to actually exist.

[Hopkirk]

I don't understand what your problem is with Aaron, Kirk.

Why isn't cliff hung yet?

He said he didn't 100% trust hectic. You've gotta admit that's dodgy.

Although Aaron isn't even in my top 5 scumreads. I still have a townread on him.

[Hopkirk]

@Cliff: I'm seeing something that makes me think this is plausible. Did you soft anywhere else?

@Hectic: how are you reading Titus?

[Hopkirk]

And I'm looking at a yes or no on that Cliff.

[Hopkirk]

I'm only lynching in (Cliff/Eevee/Titus) unless we have results.
Titus would be viable here.

[Hopkirk]

Aaron is not scum if Cliff is scum based on votecounts.

The strategy of keeping Cliff alive requires 2 or 3 more VT claims right?

If Bob claims not-VT we auto lynch Cliff obviously.

[Hopkirk]

Vig would have shot if we have one.

We have enough confirmed town massclaiming and coordinating to prove actions might be reasonable.

Eevee/Titus first then I'm happy to claim.

[Hopkirk]

Problem with the strategy is obviously that a scumroleblocker results in a false guilty.

If cliff is town there's a good chance he's roleblocked.
If cliff if scum he claims he must have been rbed after we lynch the townie who he says he gave stuff to.

Cliff remains the best lynch, then we lynch titus.

[Hopkirk]

If we lynch cliff then we don't MC. Otherwise we need to sort of massclaim.

[Hopkirk]

The idea would probably be something like get 2-3 VTs to claim, get cop if any to go on Cliff, and if anything unexpected happens commit to lynching Cliff.

[Hopkirk]

??Kop
??Cliff Booth
??Sharon Tate
??EeveeLution Army
??Fish Monger
??rosterfoster
??Garmr
??bob3141
??Skellen

This is a list of players that are not actually playing this game yet. If any pf them has something to contribute it's better to say it no rather than after a wagon had formed on you.

Excuse me?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Translation: You suck. I rule.

Loyalty goes a long way in life, which is why I am so trusting of my buddy, Rick. Quite

simply

I think he sees what I see in Hopkirk and I find it both saddening and mildly surprising that no one else has pointed it out (profii came close but it wasn't enough -- won't hold it against the guy though). As for you, JJD, you're a capable scum hunter, so why are you looking for low activity, low hanging fruit rather than making a case based on what the words right in front of you? Sell me on the idea that us "not actually playing the game" by default have more scum equity than, say, Hopkirk, Elements, or Roster, and I may forgive you. But for now you've began to lose my trust. You're better than this.

This is the specific 'is this a crumb' I was thinking about since you never use any other words starting with simpl and it's in the crumb post.

[Hopkirk]

What did you see in me back then.

[Hopkirk]

Mainly at the start of D1.

[Hopkirk]

Oh no.

[Hopkirk]

I'll have to sort that out after work

[Hopkirk]

I'm intending to vote Cliff. I'm not going to be doing this before Kop gets replaced.

[Hopkirk]

I'm intending to vote Cliff. I'm not going to be doing this before Kop gets replaced.

Has Kop asked for replacement? Has he even been prodded?

In the last month he's made no meaningful posts. A couple of comments on setup stuff but no actual content, no comments about players.

Last we heard was 2-3 days ago where it was unclear whether he'd keep playing. He's due a prod again.

[Hopkirk]

Plain and simple i think your scum. Thus there is no solid clear on me and billy.

If you are town which i doubt then you flip does confirm me and billy

Cliff is probably a scum disloyal fruit vendor which would still clear you and Billy.

Why in God's name would he play this way to create two confirmed townies if hes trying to die?

Because in that case either one of them could be his partner. Giving them fruit so a tracker/voyeur sees the target happen then they just claim they got it to be fake confirmed.

[Hopkirk]

We already lost one result from Tchill's tracker due to a replacement/self hammer. Let's not end today until we're sure the alleged 'Kop' is actually playing.

[Hopkirk]

As promised, some to make up for my tragic omission earlier.

Cliff Booth

I trust Cliff Booth more when he says he’s town than I trust the moderator confirming it.

Playing mafia with Cliff Booth changed my life. Playing mafia as mafia with Cliff Booth and nothing could change my death.

I just blacklist anyone who scumreads Cliff Booth. At that point you might as well just quit playing mafia.

When I heard Cliff Booth hadn’t been made patron saint of scumhunring yet that’s when I decided the church just wasn’t right for me.

Some people kill time playing mafia. Cliff Booth kills time and it flips scum.

Subs

Last time Texcat talked the scumteam into conceding pregame I thought it was a miracle. Texcat just calls that a Tuesday.

When Alonzo tells people it’s time to get serious even Hectic stops memeing.

If you ever want to know how many scum there are in a closed setup just count the amount of people voting Goobledegook page one. They’re hoping he’ll get lynch him before he solves it. Alternatively, wait until page two and sheep his solve.

I’ve recently realized I’ve never seen AaronFrost trying to find mafia. I’m pretty sure he just always finds them page one but pretends he hasn’t so the rest of us don’t feel so bad.

You can scumread Blatantscum as much as you like. It just depends how quickly you want to get lynched.

Hectic (because these ones are true

I don’t actually understand any of Hectic’s reads but it’d be far too embarrassing not to follow them since I wouldn’t lynch scum that way.

Hectic managed to lynch my imaginary friend.

Whenever I vote Hectic I have to make a new account after the game. I couldn’t show my face in a game afterwards if everyone knew I was that bad at mafia.

Whenever I’m in a game with Hectic I get paranoid free will doesn’t exist since it feels like I’m just typing exactly what he wants me to type.

[Hopkirk]

)

going to feel bad all day if i don't close that.

[Hopkirk]

May the wiki-gods smile down upon you, Titus.

Time to end this day.

Re

VOTE: Cliff

@LUV: Shouldn't Kop be replaced based on the number of times he's entered prod range this game?

Why do you want to lynch him before we've heard from Kop?
We lost Tchill's tracker result due to an early hammer/wait for a replacement.

Kop absolutely should have been replaced already.

[Hopkirk]

Having just 'finished' a game where the mod siteflaked I'm growing more concerned about spending time on this game.

-Hip

[Hopkirk]

Also. I want hopkirk claiming first if they haven't already. I'm starting to have some minor issues with that slot.

What are the issues?

Is this you asking for a claim? If so I'm fine claiming now as long as you agree to trust Hectic afterwards.

[Hopkirk]

I unvoted off of Cliff when there seemed to be some interest in a mass claim.

If no one wants to massclaim then the people who feel like Cliff needs to eat rope should just vote there.

I think Cliff should stay and conf!town out of the VT pool. I think that prospect scares scum, which is why some folks started pushing harder for a Cliff lynch. And I think I'm the only one that's proposed this, and I think that scum would have pushed for my idea if they wanted to sabotage it by role blocking. But something needs to happen to advance this day.

VOTE: kop

I'm fine with Hop going first. I'd like a massclaim before I decided where to vote, but if I'm going blind within my PoE I will start here.

So you've been saying 'we should end the day now', 'people should vote Cliff off if they scumread him'.

Literally the only reason I'm not voting Cliff now is because I've been asking for about four days about the Kop replacement, and I want that slot to be forced to do something at some point before lylo.

Why do you want to end the day before Kop gets replaced. How come you're shading me and don't acknowledge concerns that you clearly agree with if you're willing to vote Kop?

[Hopkirk]

So you want a claim or nah?

[Hopkirk]

Vanilla Townie

[Hopkirk]

I kind of hoped mafia would do something about me last night since I was basically claiming Cop yesterday and I made this post page 4 (I AM COP. HARDCLAIMING COP). With the amount of extended nights/issues this game has had I really wanted to die at some point since I've got a 1.5% sub out rate, I wasn't in danger of having to sub out if the game took a normal amount of time (instead of four-six day night phases and days that've dragged on due to waiting for replacements). Realistically I'm going to spend 2-3 weeks prodging from mid November onwards.

I don't Actually Mind hectic pointing out breAdCrumbs. It's Only a Problem if mafia kills tHe person who is doing the breAdcRumming. Don't Care if Losers Aren't In My traIN of thinkinG here, we Can dO this without People like that dragging us down.

Is the flailing thing cumulative? It sounds like we should all just accuse the d1 lynch target of flailing before we hammer (I call the lolhammer btw) to increase their chance of flipping scum.

@Hectic: if anyone gets to L2 and you want to lolL1 I'll lolhammer or vise versa.

I kind of strongly implied I barely looked at my role pm during the whole 'the word town isn't actually colored in this game' thing d1. Otherwise

[Hopkirk]

For Cliff to flip town we have to have had a d1 wagon where 8 town voted for him (me/Hectic/Billy who's town if Cliff is/5 confirmed/dead town). A wagon that the scum didn't try and push then, or later in the day.

[Hopkirk]

Actually, how much detail does Voyeur give in a normal? Would it say what kind of Fruit vendor targetted someone?

[Hopkirk]

If anyone can find a crumb from tchill (he makes those, I was a mason with him before and he actually introduced me to breadcrumbs) that shows who he was likely to target the night he died then I will believe scum shot him.

But why wouldn't a conftown or a doctor-claiming Rick get killed by scum instead? The only logical reason I see is that Tchill crumbed a target.

I mean it could be as simple as town!doctor!rick was going to be on one of the conftown so take out a claimed PR instead. But where does that leave Garmr? I might be missing others but if it was just Tchill and Garmr, I think a tracker is more powerful than a Voyeur?

Cliff

didn't post at all day 3

because JJD 'antitown gamethrower' JJD decided he wanted to selfhammer before we got a replacement for the tracker who could have been killed. Also because it was taking a while to get a replacement (also irritating) but I guess that's just more info we should have got that we lost for no good reason.

Kind of contributing to why I've been on the Kop train the whole day and I'm very concerned about people wanting to end another day early.

Tchill probably died since he had two track results to claim.

[Hopkirk]

He claimed Texcat visited nobody n1.

He subbed out n2 so didn't give a result.
He wasn't replaced d3.
He died n3.

That's two unclaimed results right there.

[Hopkirk]

Claimed because

exactly

and because I want to get Eevee/Titus claims.

Mason-jar

That reminds me, have I ever told you how much my grandfather

hated

the masons? He used to go on long angry rants.

[Hopkirk]

Let's add Profii to the list and edit them out if they recover.

[Hopkirk]

Though I guess you were at very little chance anyway.

Was your

exactly

referring to this?

Not

exactly

.

[Hopkirk]

Why'd your grandfather hate the masons so much?

Let's start with Cliff first; how would you like to be killed, Cliff? Make it something strange so we can add you to the list.

I'm glad you asked. I'll give you the condensed version instead of scumhunting.

It all began back in the good old days where you could start a secret society and actually get tax breaks for it. Now those were the days. You used to be able to walk down the street and nod knowingly at people in the windows and a good half of them would jump out thinking they'd been caught. You might think it was a struggle wading through the bodies, the coffin sellers being on strike what with Thatcher and everything, but it was surprising easy when you got the hang of back flipping over them. My grandfather was an exceptional back flipper. I'm not sure if he learnt his skills walking down the street, in the war on drugs, or the war on eyes. He always just told me he learnt it in a 'cruel senseless war'. Whenever I tried to get more out of him he locked me in the broom closet until I could break out. Good man, but he wasn't good with money. Spent a fortune on doors. I always used to think it must have been the war on eyes, that's the cruelest and most senseless war I could think of (although I can't think about it too long since it really doesn't make sense and my head starts hurting and then I start making bad decisions like lynching anyone except Elements day one). He also had a blind army buddy, so either that was from the war or he was pulling a Hectic and pretending he was blind to get people to townread him. In the end it didn't really matter how he got them. He'd back flip over twenty corpses with ease and if he landed on anyone and squashed them he could just claim he was trying to back flip over twenty one corpses. All things considered it was pretty much the perfect crime.

It might sound like I'm getting away from my point, but I feel like whenever I fail to establish my grandfather's skillset at the start of the story then the whole thing just falls flat. The important takeaway from my story is that my grandfather had an impressive set of skills. It's like granny always said, 'he doesn't mean what he says when he's on the hooch laddy, the south willne rise again'. I think she was usually drinking at the time too since she didn't have the accent at the start of the sentence. You're also probably thinking that doesn't sound like it did much to establish his skillset. Well let's just say you weren't there to see how much hooch the man could put away. Never told me what hooch is and I never asked and I think we're all a lot happier that way.

Unfortunately he couldn't live a quiet life caring for his family, consuming excessive carbs, and paying what he thought was his fair share of taxes. As was the fate of all non scrounging commie dumpling crungers at the time, in the end he had to get a job. After all, he had a wife, kids, and a serious cocaine habit to support. Nothing serious, he just got an odd thrill from squirting it on the cat. As were most government jobs at the time, it turned out to be a pretty secret job, they wouldn't even tell him what he was supposed to be doing for the first two years. Turns out some of the paperwork went missing which pretty much sums up the government for you. Made him feel a lot more justified about not paying his taxes, not that I'm entirely sure he knew what taxes were. Always made a fuss about paying 'old uncle sam' which never made much sense to me what with us being British, his not having an uncle, and aunt Matilda being the one who had all of the pictures. He always paid her mind you and it was money well spent. Much better than getting a couple of pencil plodders to sent a very skilled man after the latest in a wave of secret organizations who just wanted to impress daddy Khrushchev.

You're probably wondering at this point where this is going. You'll want to reread the last couple of sentences and realize you've missed some brilliant foreshadowing. I'll wait a minute or two for you to pick yourself off the floor, stop typing for a while and let you recover. If you didn't fall off your chair then I'd advise taking a quick break here anyway since otherwise you lose the director's intent for the pacing and the whole thing just falls apart really and then you've got nobody to blame but yourself, Jack Aubrey, and I guess Stalin. I'll trust you've taken the break now and we'll get back to the main story. In case any of you didn't get it, the skilled man was my grandfather and that secret organization was the masons.

Being part of the uninformed majority he'd quite naturally held a hatred of informed minorities all his life. We prefer to avoid talking about his thoughts on affirmative action that turned out to be the obvious extension of this. We prefer to talk about how he lived and died a hero and how we changed his first name to we just before he died and we changed his last name to died a hero just to make it difficult to say he was pretty damn racist without also making we died a hero sound like a hero. He was a hero, but that was beside the point, unless you're after my original point about the masons, if you're still reading this I love you, which I feel I should get back to. Quite naturally the group drew his ire, and when they were finished they wade a sketch of his lyre which he got for a discount of ten lire after he'd lyer a particular turkish gentleman who prefered to be a lier to a stander and who'd called him a liar twelve years prior in the war on ears and subsequently recognized in a bar. Don't ask why he'd lyer him in the bar because the government couldn't either at the time.

My grandfather of course decided he'd infiltrate the masons. He had the perfect plan. He'd join up with a local recruiter, learn about the organization, make his way up the food chain, grow to love the organization and his new brothers, accept it into his heart, become one with it's teachings, start to grow bitter about the newer younger members who were starting to take his place and quit in disgust. All things considered he'd definitely taken a realistic view of how easy it is to get sucked into a cult. Remember, if they're not feeding you enough and they're keeping you tired and they keep insisting you can leave whenever you want but it's a thirty mile walk to the nearest town and the car always happens to be out of gas whenever you feel like leaving then you might be in a cult. Looking at you here Aaron Frost, you'll thank me when you're older.

Like most plans, it didn't survive first contact with the enemy. My grandfather went into the recruiting station just like he planned, but the moment he saw the smug little mason rat girl recruiter at the desk he flew into a rage and burned the place to the ground. Over the next thirty years, and my details get a bit shaky here since gran always made me leave the room when he really got into it, he systematically killed every mason man he could. He left the women alive, but I later discovered he was just leaving them alive so they could have more mason children so that he could kill the children. I'm not defending eugenics and forced breeding programs here or anything, I'm just saying you need to walk a few miles in his shoes before you could understand exactly how deep his hatred of the masons ran. He saw things in those years and they changed him. Who can say if he'd been changed for the better, certainly not Galinda.

Sadly as time passed by my grandfather grew older and had grandchildren of his own. The government decided to slash his department's budget, needing the money of course to bribe every single person in the department into never telling anyone what their job had involved, plus a few extra bribes to cover up the fact they were bribing people then a few bribes to cover up those bribes and then it just kind of snowballed and people have to pretend we don't know why we've got such a huge national debt. He was never the same after they told him he couldn't hunt down masons any more. He retired, and this modern day Cincinnati returned to his family, his cocaine habit, and his oldest and truest love of putting together really badly planned sessions of alcoholics anonymous.

He turned in his gun and badge and I think they recognized he was a broken man at the time since they didn't even ask where he'd got the gun or the badge. I never saw him smile again apart from when he took those long walks and came back covered in red paint. Gran would always ask him where he'd been and he claimed he'd been having an affair and the woman just liked throwing red paint over him, but I think from the way she smiled Gran always knew the truth.

As he grew even older, towards the final days of his life, he did grow to accept that not all masons were evil, in fact not even all of them were bad people. Over the years he'd met thousands of the vermin. In that time he noticed one quality in particular that stood out. He told me in fact, that every mason with this quality turned out to be a good person. He theorized that without this one particular quality, no mason could be good. 'The only good mason', he whispered to me and only me with a smile that spilled out memories of a life well spent me and as he lay on his deathbed, 'is a dead mason'.


Hopkirk "Hop" Hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

I didn't intend for that to get to almost two thousand words and I have many regrets about how I spent the last forty minutes.

[Hopkirk]

cincinnatus* because it matters

[Hopkirk]

I've been kind of assuming you're Flavor Leaf here?

I still actually do not buy that he missed the first 10 times people pointed this out

I literally called him FL several times d1 earlier in the thread since I thought it was FL which it was. What are you even talking about here?

[Hopkirk]

90% sure Eevee posted several times and avoided claiming VT when we thought there could be that VT cop when Eevee seemed to.think it was reasonable to claim. Need to check if I'm remembering right.

[Hopkirk]

I'm talking about the vanilla cop thing that Billy claimed in response to ages ago. Not sure what you're quoting there?

[Hopkirk]

90% sure Eevee posted several times and avoided claiming VT when we thought there could be that VT cop when Eevee seemed to.think it was reasonable to claim. Need to check if I'm remembering right.

Isnt the same true of you?

Iirc you claimed before I posted on the matter.

[Hopkirk]

Yep that's true

[Hopkirk]

also I don't get your infatuation with hectic, Kirk. What have you two been doing in that PT?

Woah, are you implying I'm some kind of a

cop with an innocent on hectic

? I never said that.

My activity is going to be fairly limited this week since at any given time I'll be either at work, or within ten feet of someone in this game (I'll let you guess who).

[Hopkirk]

Hey hopkirk wanna share your results before I call bullshit on your cop claim?

Night one I checked hectic and got mafia but he claimed miller so it's fine.

Night two I checked hectic because I forgot about checking his night one and didn't feel like reading my old PM's and I got mafia.

Night three I convinced LUV to let me check myself and I got mafia but I'm pretty sure he was just trolling me. Obviously my 'mafia rolecop' role means that I can check people's roles and see if it's mafia.

Night four I checked hectic since I had a hunch and the mod told me to stop submitting actions so far in advance.

(I still claim VT)

[Hopkirk]

Woah, if only i could have seen hectic face at that reveal.

Still think lynched before the replacement is dumb. Given Kop should have been replaced weeks ago I don't see how luv could have justified not giving an extension.

[Hopkirk]

I haven't been on 'nearly every mislynch'.

d1 lynch- consensus, my vote wasn't on it.
d2 lynch- actively against it.
d3 lynch- obviously I was on it, we had an effective cop claim.
d4 lynch- was not on as waiting for Kop.

The 'POE pool' you mention was literally just you saying 'if 4 people vote someone then one of them is X% scum' where the X% you used was actually just the same % as a randomly selected player being scum iirc.

(Titus/Eevee/Kop) remain scum based on the d1 Cliff wagon I agree.

[Hopkirk]

You should probably factor in scum inactivity in any anlysis.

[Hopkirk]

I went over the vote history and noticed that hopk is very suspect.

I remember when i found a poe pool on teh rooster wagon and he moved to dismiss it. Of the 4 only one now is alive and thats kop.

He has been on nearly every mislynch

He was even on cliff wagon day 2. Got upto 7 votes and of which only 2 are either not confirmed or dead. I would of expected atleast one scum to be on wagon the size of 2. Only those left undetermined are hopkirk and hectic

I really don't understand how you would reach this conclusion organically when AaronFrost and you have both been on all 4 wagons.

[Hopkirk]

i also believe aaronfrost is scum. But in your own words you said that cliff must be scum otherwise one of you and hectic would have to be scum. Only 2 not flipped players on cliff. And that was when proffi ahdnt fliped yet

I'm 99% sure I said that if Cliff flipped town then scum were mostly/all inactives. I never said it would make me/Hectic scum since I haven't said a negative thing about hectic at all.

Come to think of it, Hectic hasn't said a negative thing about my top 3 scumreads and he's followed most of my other reads.

[Hopkirk]

Woah, if only i could have seen hectic face at that reveal.

^ oops didnt mean to send that yet

why is me being eth0s a big deal

Hectic had spoken fondly irl about a certain 'eth0s' who'd been in most of his games to that point. He suggested we join a game since 'eth0s is in it, oh wait he subbed out nevermind'. We joined this one instead.

[Hopkirk]

hopk it was day one wagon

12thCliff (7) - t(1065), Hopkirk(1071), t (1075) , t (1090), t(1092), t (1097), Hectic (1142),

13th Cliff (7)- , Hopkirk(1071), t(1075) , t(1090), t(1092), t(1097), Hectic (1142), t(1210)

2 days of that wagon and teh only none flipped or confirmed players are you (hopk) and hectic

I'm aware of this wagon. I said several times d2/d3/d4 that I couldn't see any scum on the wagon.

[Hopkirk]

@Hectic: I'm kind of concerned that you never say anything bad about Kop/Titus/Eevee while they write the word 'Hectic' a combined total of once over all of their posts. Should I be worried?

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk why would you think scum would consciously avoid this wagon. Scum often end up wagins even when they dont intent too.

I've literally said the complete opposite of this

three times in the last half a fucking hour.

Kop/Eevee/Titus probably avoided the wagon because THEY WERE NOT POSTING IN THE THREAD AT ALL WHEN THE WAGON WAS HAPPENING.

i also believe aaronfrost is scum. But in your own words you said that cliff must be scum otherwise one of you and hectic would have to be scum. Only 2 not flipped players on cliff. And that was when proffi ahdnt fliped yet

I'm 99% sure I said that if Cliff flipped town then scum were mostly/all inactives. I never said it would make me/Hectic scum since I haven't said a negative thing about hectic at all.

Come to think of it, Hectic hasn't said a negative thing about my top 3 scumreads and he's followed most of my other reads.

You should probably factor in scum inactivity in any anlysis.

I haven't been on 'nearly every mislynch'.

d1 lynch- consensus, my vote wasn't on it.
d2 lynch- actively against it.
d3 lynch- obviously I was on it, we had an effective cop claim.
d4 lynch- was not on as waiting for Kop.

The 'POE pool' you mention was literally just you saying 'if 4 people vote someone then one of them is X% scum' where the X% you used was actually just the same % as a randomly selected player being scum iirc.

What did I post that made you attribute 'scum avoided the wagon' to me?

[Hopkirk]

I haven't been on 'nearly every mislynch'.

d1 lynch- consensus, my vote wasn't on it.
d2 lynch- actively against it.
d3 lynch- obviously I was on it, we had an effective cop claim.
d4 lynch- was not on as waiting for Kop.

The 'POE pool' you mention was literally just you saying 'if 4 people vote someone then one of them is X% scum' where the X% you used was actually just the same % as a randomly selected player being scum iirc.

(Titus/Eevee/Kop) remain scum based on the d1 Cliff wagon I agree.

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much

How about you say what you disagree with instead of throwing random shade?

Also, what do you think about Eevee/Kop/Hectic who you haven't bothered to mention whatsoever this game?

[Hopkirk]

Not sure what benefit you get out of the d3/d4 votecounts where we were following cops.

[Hopkirk]

I haven't been on 'nearly every mislynch'.

d1 lynch- consensus, my vote wasn't on it.
d2 lynch- actively against it.
d3 lynch- obviously I was on it, we had an effective cop claim.
d4 lynch- was not on as waiting for Kop.

The 'POE pool' you mention was literally just you saying 'if 4 people vote someone then one of them is X% scum' where the X% you used was actually just the same % as a randomly selected player being scum iirc.

(Titus/Eevee/Kop) remain scum based on the d1 Cliff wagon I agree.

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much

How about you say what you disagree with instead of throwing random shade?

Also, what do you think about Eevee/Kop/Hectic who you haven't bothered to mention whatsoever this game?

Yeah I have mentioned Evee. He even corrected me on his name abbreviation that I can't remember.

I haven't been in the thread as much so I have not reacted with as many slots as I'd like. My real life is taking up much more time than I expected.

Going through your iso you never write the word 'Eevee'. You might quote him, but you never bring up how you read him/mention anything about him.

Your current shade on me doesn't gel with your lack of reading the game.

[Hopkirk]

Ok so you're saying you have mentioned Eevee because you say

Alonzo has a high chance of being scum due to the last second counter on EEarmy

that's fulfilling the technical wording of the problem I have but not the actual reason it's a problem.

Your attacks on me there I address and you ignored my responses. You've been throwing very minor shade without following up and you're clearly positioning.

How come you didn't mention anything about Eevee after Alonzo flipped town given what you say in 3242?

[Hopkirk]

Titus is almost confirmed scum. But can we PLEASE GET KOP REPLACED BEFORE WE LYNCH.

It's honestly a joke at this point that the slot hasn't done anything in 4 in game days now. I'm trying not to let it factor in that LUV extended the night for every replacement except this one, but it's pretty difficult to ignore that.

[Hopkirk]

Sorry I don't use your method of referencing EE. Sorry real life has prevented me from posting but I am trying to catch up.

This is a terrible response. Looking through your entire posting and you don't mention Eevee by any other names either, except for that one reference you made that you quoted above which wasn't about Eevee at all.