Undertale Semi-Open 1.1 - Snowdin Snowdown

[Xayah]

We identify four townies and win. Townhunting is better than scumhunting and this playerlist is good for application

While this is correct I doubt we’ll all go with this. Me being one of them cause of how bland that is. I rather go for the middle ending. Seems more entertaining.

That was not a towny reaction Elements

I’m sorry was anything you vs Ele posted real? My brain kinda went over it as nonsense then this happened with all the tags so I figured I should ask.

like im already feeling you and chennis are town
thats three already

Good thing to know Wisdom is already somewhat scummy. Another good thing to know that I probably won’t get him killed but we can try.

oversoul on the other hand looks scummy so far

You’re making this up as you go along but I feel like you’re competent enough to not be this obvious about it. Was this a test? You know, I’ll probably figure out by the time this catch up is done.

[Xayah]

We identify four townies and win. Townhunting is better than scumhunting and this playerlist is good for application

This is good. I like where this is going.

I think based on page 1 and 2 that chennis and Elements are probably town.

HEAL: chennis

Did I miss the memmo? How are you people reading anything Chen/Ele said as...anything? I feel like when I read into anything Chen/Ele/Oversoul are saying in regards to each other it’s like a clique talking in girl talk about meta I have no idea about. So you guys having reads on them has me ???

oversoul on the other hand looks scummy so far

mmmm no

I’m obvtown and this is a game I don’t even need to make myself obvtown in

Oh thank you Jingie I didn’t see this when I was going through all this.
*Ahem*
What the fuck?
How in any world do you think you’re obv town with what you’ve posted so far? Like really I wanna hear this. More so cause it made me laugh.

genocide is just vanilla though and poisoner is the worst pr in bad hands even if we have him

I think if we have poisoner theyre best off claiming and getting spared

See I get this, and I understand it. Because you’re right. Maybe I should focus on the set up a bit-no just kidding.

*2-2 or 3-1, like what Elements said

We should spare day 1 and fight day 2

Wouldn’t getting the information from a d1 flip and then sparing after that be better? At least I think so.

[Xayah]

Chemist you have to just keep rolling town dont you

Funny you say that because Chem had the worst entrance in the game.
'Let me agree and disagree with these posts while giving 0 context on why I do'
HURT: Chem

[Xayah]

This isnt meta maria its kinda obvious that asking bad/easy questions instead of actually producing content that has controversy is scummy

Yes you're right that's kinda basic mafia 101. But in the stuff you were talking about almost none of it between you/Ele flip AI to me. So I don't really know what you're talking about considering it was page 1-3 and I'd be worried if you had a lot of 'serious' questions at that point. Don't you see how much of a stretch that is?
pedit: I think that's too specific to bank on and think it's better to switch it around.

[Xayah]

So it's basically an empty read that is subject to change. Alright got it thank you.

Rakan why did you heal Ele?

[Xayah]

I haven't really thought of what path to take because really none of them seems that bad. (To be fair I haven't thought of it in detail) The neutral ending uses both mechs even though the geno ending prob seems the best. I do think we should fight someone day one though so that makes it so we're doing the neutral route. Why can't we do 2-2 is there a major dif to 3-1 vs 2-2

[Xayah]

Chemist you have to just keep rolling town dont you

Funny you say that because Chem had the worst entrance in the game.
'Let me agree and disagree with these posts while giving 0 context on why I do'
HURT: Chem

Coming back over to this

Why did you not just ask

A) I shouldn't need to
B) I don't think I'd care about your answer.

Thanks for clearing up the mechs peeps

[Xayah]

Chemist you have to just keep rolling town dont you

Funny you say that because Chem had the worst entrance in the game.
'Let me agree and disagree with these posts while giving 0 context on why I do'
HURT: Chem

Coming back over to this

Why did you not just ask

A) I shouldn't need to
B) I don't think I'd care about your answer.

Thanks for clearing up the mechs peeps

So if I had explained you wouldn't have cared anyway

And yet it's scummy for me not to explain

Alright then

No, if you explained I wouldn't be scumreading you about your actions even if I didn't care about the explanation itself.

[Xayah]

No, if you explained I wouldn't be scumreading you about your actions even if I didn't care about the explanation itself.

It's about the effort and transparency of thought heehee

Someone gets it!

[Xayah]

Sure, I have no real reason to object to a soul vote right now. I'd love to see why they think there obv town.
What do you think of chem right now?
HURT: Soul
pedit: Are you being purposely obtuse?

[Xayah]

He's been engaged enough that I like the content being made with him. Forget who but someone pointed out an issue they had with chen and it makes me want to go back and see if I can see it too. I'll make note of chen but he's a sack of potatoes for me rn.

The only real thing about Chen that I have right now is his confidence in the Ele read (It was Ele right?) felt somewhat real. Although I don't really remember scum chen. It's a base read for now. One that is 'subject to change' as people put it.

I'm obvtown because nothing I'm doing is to a scum agenda, let alone an Oversoul scum agenda?

A 'scum agenda' doesn't really exist and is subjective. But let me ask what you think one is. Since I get you're talking on a bases.
Also what would be an Oversoul scum agenda?

You tell us if your post 188 being written in comic sans is you claiming to be the power role sans

If it's not, you're getting lynched for that. If it is, we wait to see if anybody counterclaims (if somebody does, then you die) and then if nobody does our best move is, ironically, to go for either neutral or pacifist after sparing you.

No to all of this. Put on the breaks. We're not getting a claim right away. OverSoul isn't nearly as scummy as you're trying to make him out to be. So I don't get where this confidence is coming from. I get a few points that he made that I was questioning myself. But it wasn't even in a 'scummy' question it was a ??? The whole point of wagoning OS was to get more interaction out of him. At least for me.

[Xayah]

No to all of this

Do you have any other reads since you have Oversoul already solved in your eyes? How do you feel about Gin?

[Xayah]

Good thing to know Wisdom is already somewhat scummy. Another good thing to know that I probably won’t get him killed but we can try.

is it because i called myself town? Or because you disagree with my chennis and elements townreads?

The latter. But it seems you're not the only one with that opinion so maybe I'm out of the loop.

[Xayah]

Good thing to know Wisdom is already somewhat scummy. Another good thing to know that I probably won’t get him killed but we can try.

is it because i called myself town? Or because you disagree with my chennis and elements townreads?

The latter. But it seems you're not the only one with that opinion so maybe I'm out of the loop.

Do you have any reads?

I have a pretty good read on Rakan but I'm holding that back for obvious reasons
I have Gin as a town lean
Same goes with Chenn but lighter than Gin.
Chem is scummy and right now we're trying to figure out OS
Pedit: Bad logic but meh.

[Xayah]

is nymph being bad on purpose because it's an alt gimmick or

Go on.

[Xayah]

I think Chennis is scum from how badly he's reading me

Isn’t this a reason to tr him? Idk chem to me isn’t the first person that comes to mind for town hunter expert or big ballsy scum. Do you think he should be able to read you 100% of the time? If you think he should be able to read you correctly why does scum him push you? He can just tr you and be done with it. Is he making s big move to you or?

This is pretty basic thinking and I don’t like how you’re handling this

[Xayah]

I think Chennis is scum from how badly he's reading me

Isn’t this a reason to tr him? Idk chem to me isn’t the first person that comes to mind for town hunter expert or big ballsy scum. Do you think he should be able to read you 100% of the time? If you think he should be able to read you correctly why does scum him push you? He can just tr you and be done with it. Is he making s big move to you or?

This is pretty basic thinking and I don’t like how you’re handling this

Chennis is pushing me as scum because I've been asking a lot of questions and saying that I'm therefore playing similarly to the last game where I was scum. If he was actually comparing the games he notice the massive difference of tone and post style between the two game. To me chennis is scum jumping on the opportunity for a potential easy mislynch by using only the half of the information that helps his case.

While you might think your tone is dif that isn't as clear to everyone else. It's a self-bias sort of thing. Can you take a step back and say with 100% confidence that the game in question is so blatantly different?

[Xayah]

Anyone else get nothing from the Mastina and Nacho posts or is it just me

[Xayah]

The whole reason the Oversoul vote was a thing was to try and solve the slot. Although he hasn't really done much in that regard. I probably could've asked some questions but right now I'm too lazy.
Nacho is being... Well himself so I'm fine with letting him go through to the next phase
HURT: Chem

I still don't see the value of spare first vs lynch no matter if we go 3-1 or 2-2 lynch is strictly better

[Xayah]

Selfishly I want to keep Rakan here for obvious reason. But I get sparing him.
You know what's better though? Lynching.

Jokes on you I wanted to ego this anyway

[Xayah]

HEAL: Xayah
Alright, since that happened I'm gonna put myself into a PT with Rakan easiest way to solve both slots and get some protective solving done.

[Xayah]

Fair, I don't think anyone really 'likes me' right now. Why? I would hurt chemist right now if I had to make a choice.

[Xayah]

Fair, I don't think anyone really 'likes me' right now. Why? I would hurt chemist right now if I had to make a choice.

Don't see him making the night kill

Really? I had the other reaction.

[Xayah]

Honestly, there's only a few people that come right to my mind on 'who would make a chenn nk of all people' because Chen is not even close to the first person on my mind for 'good nk targets' so in my mind that would probably be someone who has him at a higher value than me.
That seems like Ele/Chem/Oversoul from what I can tell. So I blame them~
Pedit: I hurt you because Rakan was mega sring you and I wanted you try and get some reaction from you. Got nothing really but I'm iffy on you. Although idk how that makes me feel since you've legit fooled me everytime before so I'm like....

[Xayah]

Like, Nacho Wisdom Gin all good kills if they're town.

Fucking chen? No way. So I'm like ???

[Xayah]

*Shrug* I didn't know that but it's what I'm basing things off of.

Honestly, I don't think this playerlist would ever spare me so perhaps I should focus more on my scumreads. Yeah, that's probably better.

[Xayah]

honestly feels like a kill mastina would make

Why the fuck would mastina kill

chenn

[Xayah]

HEAL: Xayah
Alright, since that happened I'm gonna put myself into a PT with Rakan easiest way to solve both slots and get some protective solving done.

You weren't happy with the spare - why didn't you try to find it?

It wasn't me being unhappy because I thought Rakan was mega scummy or something (If he was I would've said so) but more so because I know it gives me less influence in the thread. Sure, I didn't mind the spare but there were much better options.

[Xayah]

Gin spell it out to me like I'm 5

[Xayah]

HURT: Mastina

Not even sure that this is correct but I don't hink that it's a much better direction than yesterday. I don't want Chemist spared. I don't think Chemist is even a valid spare target. Is one of Oversoul/Elements willing to take a stab at explaining why?

ew. nacho still scum

? Where do you get that. I'm not very clear on nacho scum game. Although idk if you'll explain or not.

HEAL: gingie

ill reread chemist, maybe ill join that, but gingie is town
I can probably heal elements too

Thoughts on oversoul?

What's this?
Surprise that THE FUCKING PERSON WHO BY ALL FUCKING RIGHTS SHOULD HAVE BEEN FUCKING SPARED YESTERDAY was the scum's NIGHTKILL?

Wow, I've never seen someone be so wrong and angry in the same post it's pretty amusing.
Also if anyone can read Rakan it's me you all know that. I'm pretty confident in what his alignment is based on a few tells. But go on.

I isod chemist and don't feel comfortable sparing him.
Lets spare gingie.

Am cool with this

We should spare me or lynch today. The content today is already 10x better than the day before (shockingly)

[Xayah]

I'll join if I can't get my mastina lynch.

HURT: mastina

???
I mean, I know why I scumread Mastina but I don't get why you people do. I dam sure know it's probably not for the same reasons so please go on.

Elements what’s your read on Chemist?

I'm going with likely town.
I don't see scum!chem seeing the TvT of me and chennis and thinking "I'll kill one of them. That seems good". He'd more likely let us continue at each others throats.

See, this is what I don't understand. You can apply this logic to the whole game. The whole game.

I want chemist to come post

Yo

I really really don’t want mastina killed after that series of posts but I do want to see where she’s at on other people

I swear to god if I can go one post without me having to rip your teeth out for reasons on

why

you like those posts I'd LOVE this.

At this point i want to hear why people are objected to saving my slot

Because you being in the thread is better then being in the spare pt. If we're going full save you should be last not second.

[Xayah]

Wait, I forgot about the scum nightkill hang on I'm stupid.
[Heal Ginngie [/v]
Fine, I'm stubborn but not that stubborn

[Xayah]

FFS
HEAL: Ginngie

[Xayah]

We're def not sparing you and we're not lynching
Heal gingie.

If you ever put me and spare in the same sentence I would scumread the shit out of you. So don't talk about my slot. You can't read me we know this. You just respect my game too much to ever have me a tr. That's fair, but don't talk about my slot ty~

[Xayah]

I don't really want to go through Ginngies whole thing and say 'I disagree with point xyz' because that's so much effort. Mostly because I expected this type of read sometime since Gin does gloat over the fact they can read Mastina 24/7 but meh. I won't fight her today.

Really as long as Chem Ele don't get spared I'm okay with things atm. I guess Oversoul too

[Xayah]

Wait that's wrong
HURT: gingie
627 is way tmi

For gingie? No.

[Xayah]

Okay, do you think Gin or Rakan are scum?

[Xayah]

I mean, I can have a chat if you want. Sure. I do need to care more since we're gonna finally go lynch route. Although I have 0 clue why we're not sparing me of all people if we wanna use it like a cop shot.

[Xayah]

HURT: wisdom

HEAL: Oversoul

The problem with going for a pacifist ending is that there are no chances to reevaluate and that is very extremely horribly bad for town. No flip games have an obscenely high scum win percentage for that very reason; the chance that we get it 100 percent right on our first try is not great but with the chance to reassess our win % improves

HEAL: Oversoul

notice whats wrong here?

you raise a very good point here
HURT: nacho
anything to say nacho?

Ele how do you get from point A to B? I get that your meta is supposed to be 'flip your stuff around a ton' but. Well I'll let you answer before I lead this somewhere.
Nacho why do you tr Oversoul.

Wisdom ask me something read related. This has a point I swear

[Xayah]

whats your nacho read

It’s not really a thing at the moment. I kinda gave him a day 1 pass because I know Nachos a really good player that if he’s town will give some results. I’ve been pretty focused on other people. I did see he made a ton of posts that I’ll have to read so that’ll change hopefully soon.

Ele how do you get from point A to B? I get that your meta is supposed to be 'flip your stuff around a ton' but. Well I'll let you answer before I lead this somewhere.

More seriously. To apply more pressure to nacho so they feel like they could be a viable lynch target etc you know how the game works, and because I doubt anyone is going to follow my wisdom vote. At least for now.

You know, saying your vote is purely for pressure kinda defeats the purpose of a pressure vote.

I think sparing is actually the better move than lynching. If we have spared scum already and then lynch a townie we essentially just lose

In other news, water is wet. I don’t really remember you having any problem with the Rakan or Gin lynch so why this outlook? We should be lynching today for information. We don’t lose if we spared a scum. I really don’t get this outlook. Can you explain it to me more?

[Xayah]

My thought is that the best way to play the game is from a neutral standpoint; you can form a strong towncore by attempting to hunt together and taking a couple shots at the scumteam and getting a ton of information early in the game (and because of the investigative aspect, scum are put in a shit position in having to try to avoid getting TOO much towncred or it fucks them later), which requires slowing down, posting a lot of content early game, engaging and listening to people. That didn't happen.

I don’t remember you really trying to do this. Like, I understand you were afk/busy or whatever. But I don’t recall you trying to push this outlook that much and that’s where I have issue.

I think the pacifist line is the poorest for two reasons. The first is that the scum strategy to play it is remarkably straightforward - kill active people until the game is dead or the voices alive are bad influences. You can fake distance your partners p much all you like because you won't be forced to go through with it, and you don't have to attack townies and deal with righteous fury because you're sparing people and pushing back against momentum usually isn't worth it. Secondly, there are no real chances to reassess. Generally, when I am in a tunnel, it takes a whole lot of work to pull me out of it, but you can push people hard enough where they can produce genuine reactions and everything's all good. However, if I'm townreading scum pretty strongly, it's much harder to pull me out - scum usually don't super fuck up in thread, so the only way I'm able to truly reassess is when my working POE is proven wrong. Pacifist doesn't allow for either of those so we just gotta hope that we didn't fuck up in initial reads and that's it.

Then we have this. This is all 100% true and it’s why this route is pretty meh. I guess I have the same question for you that I do oversoul. What’s your feel on Rakan/Ginngie? I would understand this viewpoint if you were hard scumreading some of them, but I think the only one who was sucmreading someone in the group was Mastina. You’re basically saying let us put our blind faith and keep on going. When we can very well kill and be in a fine spot. I’m just confused for the most part.

unless i was a pacifist supporter so you felt safe

i felt safe with someone who was calling me scum and shutting me down at every turn?
do you really believe that?

Are you really trying to claim that scum you is stubborn enough to take full control of the night kills considering how hard you were lurking? Like if you thought your partner could win you would you let them pick the nightkill or no?

[Xayah]

HEAL: Wisdom
HURT: Nacho

Regardless we should be hurting/healing in these although I do think hurt>heal today. People going for the heal route is so????????????? Like what is wrong with you

[Xayah]

Mastina let me know when you're around. I want to talk to you in live conversation because going back and forth on walls is gonna be bleh and something I don't care for

[Xayah]

Mastina let me know when you're around. I want to talk to you in live conversation because going back and forth on walls is gonna be bleh and something I don't care for

Live conversation is an honor reserved for players who I have a desire to engage in live conversation with.

It is otherwise something I deliberately avoid.

If you had done something which gave me a desire to engage you in live conversation, I'd consider it--but for basically the whole game you've been doing the literal opposite of what I wanted.
On D1 you refused to spare.
On D2 you spared Ginngie when I wanted to fight.
On D3, you lynched my strongest townread when I wanted to spare.

What can you give me in live conversation that will change that?
You can very easily convince me that the two scum are Elements/Chemist.
You could maybe convince me that my original scumread on Rakan was right even though I think my logic surrounding why he's town is sound.
You could maybe convince me to fight instead of spare.
But you won't be convincing me that Oversoul is scum.
And as long as Oversoul is town.
I don't see a reason to not spare him.

You see this is a 2 way road right?

You never engaged with me on any on your issues.
You never questioned me on anything either.

We've played together before and even worked well together before so saying you only give live conversation to certain people and you wouldn't do it for me is just being rude for the sake of it.
I want to have a live conversation because it's the best way I can get to read you. I don't really care much of how you read X nor do I want you to do Y right now I want to sort you for my own sake. Because if I can sort you I'm pretty confident in my readstate considering what we've had going on today.

[Xayah]

my brain is failing to actively evaluate and I didn't like your hammer D1

What is particularly bad about my hammer?

I had literally just asked Rakan to do something before they got spared and your hammer stopped them from doing it

This same exact logic can be used on you since that's what you did to me lol

[Xayah]

Elements what's your reads at right now?

[Xayah]

The one and only reason why I'd want you to have a read on me is if you having a read on me gets you to spare Oversoul.

I don't mind sparing Oversoul, yes the reason I wanted to get a read on you is mostly personal. I like Nachos case on Oversoul considering I had nothing better to do.

[Xayah]

I trust in Gin to have a better understanding on how to read Mastina so I won't spare her. I want to know why Chen and Ele want to though.
I know Rakan is lock town in my eyes. Gin well, I can't read them well but I can just go with the popular outlook and just gowith it. So I'm confident we have 2 town in the spare pt atm.

[Xayah]

Giving out candy right now, but this game feels so hard for like no reason. Sure I've got one read wrong on Nacho but besides that it feels like it's been pulling teeth. Maybe cause I haven't got my main scumread lynch I don't know.
Part of me wants to just move on but still I guess all I want is to be cocky

[Xayah]

You called?

[Xayah]

Xayah, why are you now comfortable townreading me when you were not before? If I'm not mistaken, wasn't I a stronger scumread for you?

I thought scum was in you Chem/Ele for some time now. But the day before when Wisdom was going on about how you and Nacho were a team and Nacho made this case. I figured the best way for me to get information was to vore Nacho. If he flipped scum then yay he was scum. If he flipped town than you're probably town. I've always had a hard time reading you. In the dance game I thought you were town when you were scum. So, I'm going to trust in Nacho and hopefully in others. I also feel better about this because it's basically a cop check fmpov. Since I'm confident in Rakan and Ginngie town.

I want to know why people townread Mastina.
I've had a scumread on Chem for most of the game and it hasn't really faded. For Elements some people say he's in his town meta but I just don't get his play. It pings me. So to say I townread you would be wrong. I think you're townier than the options left.

[Xayah]

Because A) That takes a lot of effort and it's a waste of my time because no one here is gonna spare me
B) The more important reason is from my viewpoint it's a cop check. Sure, scum get an extra night kill on night 5 but that can still give me the info I need if I'm wrong.

How much have you played with Chem and Ele? I feel like you've played with them a lot more than me

[Xayah]

Under your assumption that Rakan and aginngie are both town that means both scum are still alive. What do you think scum would be trying to do in this situation?
How does this change if one scum is in spare and 1 scum is out?

Well, it depends on how confident the scumteam is that they can beat the others. Today has been a rather lax day and it makes me question if scum are comfortable or if we've all just been lazy. Do scum not want to be spared or do they think they can get one of Rakan or Gin killed? I was trying to not be so hard on my stances at first to see if I could give scum a chance in thinking they can mislynch Rakan. But the only one who really is taking a 'Rakan scum' stance seems to be Mastina. She's had that read since day 1.

Tell me, do you think both scum are playing right now or are they in the pt?

[Xayah]

where Elements outplayed everyone.

Outplayed how?

[Xayah]

where Elements outplayed everyone.

Outplayed how?

He was universally townread and got spared and then town cannibalized itself in LyLo.

....You know, I wish I knew this sooner. It makes me feel better about not just wanting to dismiss him.

[Xayah]

Under your assumption that Rakan and aginngie are both town that means both scum are still alive. What do you think scum would be trying to do in this situation?
How does this change if one scum is in spare and 1 scum is out?

Well, it depends on how confident the scumteam is that they can beat the others. Today has been a rather lax day and it makes me question if scum are comfortable or if we've all just been lazy. Do scum not want to be spared or do they think they can get one of Rakan or Gin killed? I was trying to not be so hard on my stances at first to see if I could give scum a chance in thinking they can mislynch Rakan. But the only one who really is taking a 'Rakan scum' stance seems to be Mastina. She's had that read since day 1.

Tell me, do you think both scum are playing right now or are they in the pt?

That’s a good point about this day being lax. Hmm.

My thoughts are that if scum are not in currently in the spare, they would want to get into the spare to cast doubt on the current spare members and to get that additional kill. However, if scum are already in the spare they wouldn’t care if anyone gets spared or killed as long as the outside member isn’t getting lynched. They’ve already locked in the second kill and any doubt for spare members and if a lynch goes through on a townie they just win outright.

Now that I’m walking through this logic it really seems likely to me that scum are already in the spare given there’s been like no effort from town this phase.

I almost don’t want to be in the spare because if my thinking is correct people are just gonna incorrectly scumread me and after Baton Pass I don’t think I have the mental or physical strength to deal with that

Who do you think the scum in the spare pt could be? Because we obviously disagree on that. This kinda looks like, well. That's exactly what you're saying. You're about to get spared and you're preparing for it. So, if I could clear your doubts about scum in the spare pt would that make you want to be spared? Let's say the answer to that is no. Who would you spare right now if given the chance?

[Xayah]

That's, a good question. Now that you ask I don't really know why I'm townreading them as strongly as I've been letting on. I think it was mostly 'Well everyone townreads Gin and I like how they played around Mastina so there town.' I know Gin/Mastina can read each other really well. Kinda the same way me and Rakan can I left it at that for the most part.

[Xayah]

In a way I feel bad for scumreading Gingie because it is partly not his fault. Part of my scumread on him is the fact that I wasn’t on his wagon and he got quick spared and he spared himself. That reminds me very much of what happened with Elements in the last game when he was quick spared.

I wish you had a better reason to townread Gingie but I guess I can’t fault that because I don’t have better radon’s to scumread him. That said, I do think you going back and forth with me is likely town indicative of what I know about you. You’ve lurked and left Shadoweh to carry too many HH games and I really expected you to just ignore my call earlier tonight. This makes me think your own call to Mastina earlier was legitimate and the intent genuine.

Since you think Gin is scum what does that do to your Mastina read? They should be able to read each other rather well. So I'm interested to hear your take on that.

Honestly me being active or not is not AI for me. As much as I wouldn't mind the free townread. Meta on me doesn't work. The reason I let shadoweh play is cause she was new plus I hated the whole game. I can lurk as town I can lurk as scum.

[Xayah]

HURT: Xayah

[Xayah]

*yawn* This day is still going?