Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[Something_Smart]

Why did so many people pick not-1 for their second number?

[Something_Smart]

If there's a governor, they should claim.

[Something_Smart]

Lol. What for?

You know scum governor getting to LYLO is an instant scum win right?

[Something_Smart]

I almost feel like scum wouldnt have gone for governor because it's such an obviously scummy pick

Probably not. But if anyone, scum or town, did, we need to know about it.

[Something_Smart]

Town governor in lylo is an instant town win too

No it's not? Scum aren't going to quickhammer if they don't know if there's a governor.

[Something_Smart]

If it's a role that you're only going to see scum pick why would you waste breath trying to solicit a claim?

I'm at work, I have plenty of time to waste. Especially compared to all the incredibly productive things I could have been doing on page 1...

[Something_Smart]

Sure, that's fair. It's slightly more convenient to scum if the governor claims before LYLO.

However it's also materially more important to town, especially if the governor is scum.

[Something_Smart]

Like you took what I did and assumed a scum motivation with a tiny benefit rather than a town motivation with a significant benefit.

[Something_Smart]

It may not be tiny, but the way I see it, if there's a TvT vote in LYLO after massclaim, that voter's not likely to change their mind (although it can happen), and so even if the person they voted is lynched (not quickhammered) and it's governed onto scum, they're still probably going to vote them again.

This is of course a simplification, but regardless, I don't think that trying to fish for, and subsequently NK, a governor (which is a hella scummy pick) is at all a smart mechanical play with this many strong roles running around.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah.

You're not wrong about it being a scary role. But it's scarier for town than for scum.

[Something_Smart]

I would make a strong case for taking it as scum and claiming JOAT. The only JOAT ability you'd have to explain away would be the vig.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, that's a good point. The type of person who would pick governor over JOAT as town is not the type of person who would D1 claim it because I gave a logical argument for why they should.

[Something_Smart]

Oh, it's not a normal universal backup. Maybe but that would be a weird edge case.

[Something_Smart]

We had every number less than 12 except for 2 and 7. I don't think that's significant.

[Something_Smart]

The thing is, the advantage for picking a number in the 7-12 range is there for town as well as scum. The information from which pick you received benefits town and scum alike.

[Something_Smart]

I like you.

[Something_Smart]

I think Kerset is town for a really dumb reason.

[Something_Smart]

My theory was the opposite. If one scum (i.e. Kerset) had understood the rule, they'd have explained it to their partners, but clearly that didn't happen.

[Something_Smart]

...or it's possible that a townie just read the wiki page.

[Something_Smart]

Scum have intentionally collided in previous PYP games if memory serves me right.

[Something_Smart]

It took like two clicks to find the page that the mod intended to link to. And I think he put the right link up before the draft number deadline, though I might be wrong there.

[Something_Smart]

Nice to see you again Maria.

[Something_Smart]

You know I would open the game talking about mechanics no matter my alignment.

I have nothing against talking about non-mechanics, but it's page 5. It'd be unreasonable to expect anyone to have serious reads.

[Something_Smart]

It's never worked before?

[Something_Smart]

Swear to god I get the worst pagetops.

[Something_Smart]

Seriously though. I'm not easier to read under pressure.

[Something_Smart]

I know others were doing it, but s_s stuck out there.

Wouldn't scum try not to stick out?

[Something_Smart]

Not when they're trying to ride setup spec for easy town points so they can deepwolf.

Is that a thing people do?

[Something_Smart]

Vork literally did this in Haunted Village. You were in that game. I know you replaced in after all the early setup spec, but yeah, it happened.

Okay, when I ask the question "is that a thing people do?" I should start appending "other than Vork." Dude plays like he's from another planet, especially as scum. He lives off of dumbtelling and derpclearing himself.

It's not a normal thing. Setup spec is not how you deepwolf, least of all me, who has no deepwolf mode to begin with. I, like most people, setup spec because I find it important to talk about the setup, and I've clearly thought harder about it than most people given that 12/14 players didn't pick 1 as their second number.

[Something_Smart]

Oh yeah this is a good idea too, but that player would probably have to be very confident and believe that they're likely to be alive in lylo

They just have to not get vigged; using the governor when getting lynched is still a huge boon to scum.

[Something_Smart]

I agree that there are better things we could be doing right now than setup spec

It's a false dichotomy anyway. It's not as though we have a limit on how much we can post; that's the beauty of forum mafia. We can carry on as many simultaneous conversations as we want to.

[Something_Smart]

I think Kerset is town for a really dumb reason.

do tell

100

[Something_Smart]

really? i feel like it's ridiculously suboptimal as scum

The advantage from WIFOM is almost tautologically proportional to the harm it causes them.

[Something_Smart]

This isn't an accurate statement given you don't know the goals of all of the players when picking their numbers.

All else being equal it's better to be higher because you put a known alignment over a bunch of unknown alignments. The only time you'd want to be low is if you thought you were significantly worse than average at playing as a PR, so by necessity, only a few players can be justified in believing this.

[Something_Smart]

I think you are projecting your observation of the gamestate to others rather than understanding their own. If someone comes into a game with content that they were not a part of, nor they have made themselves, why are they assumed to have to delve straight into said content rather than participate in a manner that allows them to acclimate to the game.

I mean she said it was due to experience, not deduction, so I don't really see how her opinion of the gamestate affects that.

[Something_Smart]

I'm not sure I understand. Her definition of RVS is based on her own experiences, true. She is projecting that to others when she states that "we are out of RVS" when that may not be true to others.

I think it's pretty objective? The game's out of RVS when people start making votes that aren't jokes and giving actual reads.

[Something_Smart]

the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly"

Nice to meet you, I'm Something_Smart and this is how I operate.

[Something_Smart]

I would lie if his 9|1 choice wasn't in the equation though.

I picked 9/1 for the simple reason of looking at the most recent PYP games and seeing 9 as the lowest number frequently not picked. As for the 1, well, I've already explained that.

[Something_Smart]

Also to note that S_S tends to be very game spec oriented in a lot of his scum games, and that's my observation. In a marathon game I played with him he used setup spec to justify a completely insane event in order to clear himself and his partner from suspicion by claiming they were both doctors protecting each other. In Guns and Roses 2 his game contribution boiled down to extreme pessimism regarding the game because setup spec and making the worst town move which would be voting me.

In fact the only game he hasn't done that in was the Undertale large theme I played with him, and in there he was really "hey guys take it easy I know I will " and did not contribute one iota to discussions, only showed up once or twice to say hi. So there's that to consider, but that's obviously my limited experience with him.

That is much more setup dependent than alignment dependent. I talk about the setup way more in open games than closed ones.

[Something_Smart]

As opposed to most other games, which are completely solved by page 11.

[Something_Smart]

Why haven't you vote?

I don't usually vote on D1 until there's someone I actually want to lynch.

[Something_Smart]

@nom

Do you expect them to respond to that?

[Something_Smart]

What kind of response? "I'm town, so I'm not buddying you"?

[Something_Smart]

Huh I actually kinda like this response.

Eh, it's all projecting. I don't think projecting is that towny as it's super easy to fake as scum.

[Something_Smart]

More likely than not everyone is some kind of PR in this game, so the logic of "I'm playing different because I'm a PR" doesn't hold up as well here.

It can still feel different for him, though. Especially since he got to pick so he probably has a pretty strong one.

[Something_Smart]

Noms was. "S_S was scummy because he did something I do as scum."

[Something_Smart]

SS is playing with more activity than i've ever seen him play

idk what that means for his alignment tho

Nothing. It means I have more free time now

[Something_Smart]

Both rb and Kerset are arguing in super bad faith here which is really throwing me for a loop.

[Something_Smart]

leantown: {Kerset}
null: {wooper, Sirfetchd, Sujimichi, skitter30, nomnomnom, AaronFrost, Flubbernugget, Billy Pilgrim, rb, Luca Blight, Xayah, PMysterious}

[Something_Smart]

A low ratio indicates someone that is more worried about finding reasons to shade and point fingers at people, rather than analyzing things and saying "yeah, let's vote here".

wouldn't that be town indicative? town just want to say their thoughts no matter what but scum are always using their thoughts to advance a specific agenda.

[Something_Smart]

Shades are thoughts though.

[Something_Smart]

But if shades are thoughts, then what makes them scummy?

[Something_Smart]

Sure thing!

VOTE: Something_Smart

[Something_Smart]

But you do equate different as anti-town, and that's almost as bad.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I've been playing here for close to four years. Do you not think that I'm doing what I am because I believe it helps the town?

[Something_Smart]

Voting is not objectively pro-town. It may help people like you form STRONGER reads, but they are not necessarily BETTER reads. Given that my play heavily de-emphasizes finding scum early, I'd either be voting on bullshit gut feelings or picking names out of a hat of my nullreads. I don't really see how doing either of those helps you read anyone better.

[Something_Smart]

I am asking for you to make some sort of vote or scum call to help me.

Okay, that's reasonable. What method would you like me to use for determining who I vote?

[Something_Smart]

Why's that wrong?

[Something_Smart]

Brushing off rb's actions as 'well that's just how rb behaves so what so let's jump back on this irrelevant wagon instead.' She clearly hasn't taken anything I've said since her initial vote on me and analyzed it.

I mean, what if she's right? Wouldn't it then be pointless to dwell on it? Sometimes people take personality traits as alignment indicative, god knows that's happened to me enough.

[Something_Smart]

For Sirfetchd.

VOTE: Billy

[Something_Smart]

You townread Billy?

[Something_Smart]

My vote was a direct response to current discussions.

[Something_Smart]

this sequence seems designed to get aaron to question his townread ? i'm not sure how else you can even read this

...well, yeah. Is that problematic?

[Something_Smart]

apparently nom isn't reading it that way

I think she meant she didn't think it was scummy, and if she did mean that, she'd be correct.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think it's manipulative? Like he's not trying to trick Aaron into weakening his Luca townread. He's straight up trying to break down the read. It's not as though Aaron might change his read without realizing why he had changed it or that rb was trying to get him to change it.

[Something_Smart]

how is my argument in bad faith?

kerset talked mechanics, then did nothing but make vague complaints about town sucking, with zero effort to do anything about it, and is now just OMGUS voting me

does that seem like a town-aligned progression of play to you?

...yeah? Why wouldn't it be?

Do you think scum-Kerset thinks "I'm gonna complain without doing anything, and then I'm going to OMGUS whoever pushes me, and then everyone's going to townread me!"?

[Something_Smart]

That's why I thought it was in bad faith. You conflated weak play with scum play.

[Something_Smart]

how does outright asking Aaron to clarify the reasons for their townread of Luca equate to manipulative?

It doesn't. Skitter is the one who said it was.

[Something_Smart]

This assumes that scums do not display emotional traits

No, I'm suggesting that scums (with the exception of Vorkuta, hi Billy ) don't intentionally make weak plays in order to be townread. So Kerset playing like they did is a byproduct of their experience level and playstyle, even if they do happen to be scum.

[Something_Smart]

what i wanna know is why something smart scumreads billy

I don't.

[Something_Smart]

lol this is so weird to read this while being conscious of me having a history of being extremely weak plays on purposes to be townread

Well, as I mentioned earlier with Vorkuta, there are people who do it, but they are in the extreme minority. It takes a lot of faith that people won't just lynch you for being dumb.

[Something_Smart]

I dont like the way he's going about the bolded

What about it don't you like?

[Something_Smart]

Because i dont know why town tries to undermine/break down a townread

...if they think the reasoning for it isn't sound?

[Something_Smart]

Noms you seem to have some experience with skitter. She's made some pretty weak points at this juncture. Is that normal; is it indicative of her alignment?

[Something_Smart]

there's awkward new and there's awkward new scum

What's the difference, in your opinion?

[Something_Smart]

one is the thing you lynch

Don't sidestep the question

[Something_Smart]

i can generally tell when someone's just new or when they're new scum

What is your success rate at doing this?

[Something_Smart]

so why are you voting them

Because Sirfetchd said it helps them.

[Something_Smart]

I think skitter looks way worse on a Kerset townflip than on a Kerset scumflip.

[Something_Smart]

kerset in both of their newbie games are markedly different to here

Well this isn't a newbie game...

[Something_Smart]

Admittedly, I haven't played in newbie games since I was, well, a newbie. But it seems to me that the assumed level of competence in a complex game like this-- even for newbies-- is a lot higher than in a newbie game.

[Something_Smart]

god you're shit to play with btw SS

I'm sorry, is there anything in particular that bothers you?

[Something_Smart]

I love SS stfu

He's right though, I can get annoying sometimes. I appreciate that he's willing to point it out to me.

[Something_Smart]

This Kerset/rb 1v1 doesn't seem right. S_S pointing this out makes me dislike S_S's slot less.

Fwiw I understand rb's side of it now. It's mostly gut but he was trying to give an explanation people would understand, and not really succeeding.

[Something_Smart]

@S_S - in 486, why me over either of the other leading wagons that that moment?

Didn't want to encourage the fight between Kerset and rb.

[Something_Smart]

@S_S I'm confused why Skitt looks worse after a town Kerset flip. Care to explain? I dont generally do pre-flip associatives but I'd like to know where you're coming from.

The timing of 610 right after multiple people expressed suspicions of Kerset would be putting up a mostly ineffective argument that would look bad but probably not save them if both were scum; but it's a great way for scum to gain towncred if Kerset later flips town.

I might be misremembering but I have the impression in my head that skitter was originally defending Kerset because of bad reasoning used against them but at some point switched to a bona fide townread when the pressure ramped up. If it really did happen that way, it's a whiteknighting pattern.

[Something_Smart]

wooper - I don't take him serious. I just hope that vigilante won't missshot because of his recklessness.

...huh?

[Something_Smart]

I think your early push w/o a vote on Suji was bad. I think you then misrepped the situation and acted like you had voted him. And you did the same thing, acting like you voted me and I reacted to your vote, when I had voted you first, and your vote was probably a reaction to mine.

Can you link the relevant posts here?

[Something_Smart]

Thank you.

I don't see anything logically wrong with 684, other than that she forgot 50 didn't contain a vote. The sentiment is valid; you voted Suji for a bad reaction to 50 and then later voted skitter for 50-- it raises the question of, what changed between 60 and 77 that suddenly made 50 worth voting?

[Something_Smart]

A question, I'll note, that skitter didn't pose, nor did she seem to care about the answer to it.

[Something_Smart]

I don't see her suggesting that you reacted to her vote on you anywhere in the linked posts. "My initial vote on him" in 684 refers to her (imaginary) vote on Suji, not her (real) vote on you.

[Something_Smart]

Okay yeah I see it now, mb.

Did he ever answer?

[Something_Smart]

Another question.

it looks like he reread the game and forgot what his original position was, and made up a new one.

Why is this something scum are more likely to do than town?

[Something_Smart]

Makes me feel like the thoughts arent real

Why would he change his tune, other than because his opinion changed?

Unless you think he puts so little effort into his scumgame that he forgot what his position was and made something up rather than bothering to look back one page to check?

[Something_Smart]

I’ve got a bit of experience playing with billy and I think this is his scum game.

What are the differences?

[Something_Smart]

It looks to me like you got this timeline wrong.

I got the timeline wrong.

[Something_Smart]

I did notice that in the scum post you linked, as well as here, he (a) put a lot of emphasis on mapping out an accurate chronology and (b) put suspicion on someone for a relatively minor inconsistency at two different points in said chronology.

Has he done either of those things as town?

[Something_Smart]

The argument is completely meta-driven as well so I am unconvinced

Do you see meta arguments as necessarily unconvincing?

[Something_Smart]

It's the Slaughterhouse-Five

[Something_Smart]

S_S didn't you say you parked your vote to stop being pestered about voting someone? Why are you still on Billy?

Luca's argument is easy to understand and moderately compelling, and with four days left, it's better to have a wagon than to not have one.

[Something_Smart]

Oh that's a timely pedit.

[Something_Smart]

Now we have two wagons. I guess in a sense that's better.

[Something_Smart]

Luca's town, which is nice I guess.

[Something_Smart]

S_S why is the argument on Billy so attractive when it's main component is meta, but the same meta argument made on Kerset does not convince you?

Because rb said, "I know a scum newbie when I see one, trust me," and Luca said, "this is what Billy has acted like as town and as scum, and this is why his play seems more similar to scum-him."

[Something_Smart]

The only thing that makes me doubt Skitter is her defence, or rather lack or suspicion, of Kerset.

What's concerning about it?

[Something_Smart]

Kerset hasn't been scum yet. I won't accept a player meta-based scumread from experience of only one alignment.

[Something_Smart]

And to be honest, I don't even find Luca's case THAT compelling. But the threshold for who I'm willing to lynch on D1 is basically the null line, and I'd be lying if I said Billy being dead last in the draft wasn't also a factor.

[Something_Smart]

How is being dead last in the draft order an indication that someone is scummy?

It's not, but it means he probably won't flip PR

[Something_Smart]

when i reread something, and new information hs been provided, i don't usually do a complete 180 and form the opposite opinion i did the first time

But you and Billy are not the same person.

I bet you wouldn't do what he did if you were scum, either, right?

[Something_Smart]

but i also feel like this isn't something most people do, not just me ?

No, you're right, it isn't something most people do.

But that's not the important question here. The important question is, is it something that a lot of people would do as scum but NOT as town? I think probably not.

[Something_Smart]

As I said, if you were to watch interrogations of guilty suspects, you'll see that every single one of them do this, it's actually kinda crazy

They think that if they show emotion or dare challenge subtle accusations they'll inevitably appear more guilty, but what they don't know is that psychologists know that the contrary is true. So what they do is shut down emotionally, feign ignorance, and side-step important questions in favor of completely irrelevant points.

For the record, I think in-person tells and online tells are totally different. Online you can take as much time as you want to think about stuff.

[Something_Smart]

? i think this behavior is significantly more likely to come from scum than town

Why?

[Something_Smart]

because if you read the same thing twice and are trying to figure out someone's alignment i dont' understand how you can come to totally opposite conclusions each time

like this just doesn't happen to me when i play town ...
that i like read the same twice in a relatively short timespan, without getting any new info, and feel different things about it each time.
i reread things to remind myself what i thought about it the first time because sometimes i forget and i nearly always have a very similar impression the second time around that i did the first time

This is just an argument for why it's unlikely as town, not for why it's less likely as town than it is as scum.

You could prove that, for instance, only 0.5% of people would do it as town, but if only 0.1% of people would do it as scum, it's not scummy.

[Something_Smart]

I feel that i voted bc people force me to rather then bc i want to.

Who forced you to vote?

[Something_Smart]

@Something_Smart now is safe for at least today because of 766. I think it's the first person that got the reference.

Lol.

[Something_Smart]

For the record, I legitimately scumread Billy now.

[Something_Smart]

Your posts from 868 onward seem way more focused on justifying yourself than on actually forming reads. As in, you're not saying "this is what I think and this is why I think it," you're saying, "look at everything I'm doing and why it could be coming from town."

[Something_Smart]

Man, I was thinking you were town earlier, but now I'm not sure.

This is one of the worst lines in the entire string of posts, because it sets your previous reasoning aside and frames Luca as untrustworthy because he made a subjective comment that incriminates you.

[Something_Smart]

It's a fair characterization? Do you disagree that the behaviors I described are scummy?

[Something_Smart]

Those are the three games I played with Luca. Please tell me how he subjectively interpreted that as good. And tell me how that wasnt an attempt to think that my bad playstyle, which is my norm, was somehow off from my normal game. That's why I made that comment S_S. Because my game isnt good. And I actually have experience with Luca, and I dont know how he reaches that conclusion.

The problem wasn't that you disagreed with him. You're perfectly entitled to your own opinion and so is he.

The problem is that you immediately jumped to "he's suspicious for saying something that I disagree with" and even worse, you discarded a previous townread for something completely unrelated. That doesn't help anyone read him better, and it also makes it harder to discuss the issue because now it's a question of you challenging his motives instead of trying to understand his perspective. In short: it's anti-town.

[Something_Smart]

It's a fair characterization. I dont disagree that they're scummy behaviors. I wasnt being sarcastic, sorry if you thought I was.

I didn't think it was sarcastic, I was just confused. If you agree that you did them and you agree that they were scummy, why not endeavor to fix that?

[Something_Smart]

I mean, from copious experience I can tell you that (people will kill you if you don't vote) isn't always true.

You shouldn't ever let yourself be bullied into anything. I think what they were getting at is that a common town mindset accompanies pressure with a vote; but if you don't like that, you should be true to yourself. Not everyone is common.

[Something_Smart]

Would you like to talk about wooper usefulness? I am curious how do you feel about having him around.

I love having him around.

Other than that I'm not sure exactly what you're asking? I don't have any strong opinions on him yet, I was a little weirded out by him locking me as town so quickly but maybe he just knows me better than I know him.

[Something_Smart]

‘If I’m scum who is it with?’

Btw that’s a really stupid question for D1.

It's a town question though. Who asked it?

[Something_Smart]

Someone give me the cliff notes on billy scum case.

889 - 890

[Something_Smart]

Xayah.

I’m not so sure it’s a town question though - it reminds me of how I used to play as scum. If you can’t logically prove that I’m scum then you have no right to vote me.

Maria doesn't focus on logic like that especially as scum. I don't think she's a good D1 lynch anyway and I don't think anything's wrong with that question for sure.

[Something_Smart]

In isolation there’s nothing wrong with it, but when used as a defence I think it is sketchy and a bit disingenuous

I mean, it was dumb, but it wasn't her only defense-- she accompanied it with three other reasonable questions.

[Something_Smart]

Who is scum with Frost and why?

Don't fight dumbness with more dumbness.

[Something_Smart]

This is a really bad stance. Everyone should be lynchable every day because otherwise everyone just argues to be left alive and we get nowhere.

I mean objectively some people are harder to read on the early days. It's not like everyone has equal claim to be exempted the way I just said Xayah should be.

[Something_Smart]

so if we don't lynch xayah, we're lynching S_S imo

your pick S_S

I pick myself then, good luck.

[Something_Smart]

It is. I've lynched day 1 a lot players who are without question better players than the both of you and had them flip scum. And all of them argued this point. It's not a scum tell, but it is a dick move.

weird flex but ok

[Something_Smart]

But theres this weird thing where she originally calls S_S obvscum because of the setup spec. Then when Suji addresses her about why S_S is obvscum, she cases it.

Then about 2 days later, she walks it back saying that she over blew the case a bit.

She does this shit all the time.

[Something_Smart]

Sirfetchd it's not that I don't think Maria can be caught on D1. It's that I don't think she has been caught in this game, even if she's scum, because the reasoning against her is superficial and not sufficient to actually read her with > rand accuracy.

[Something_Smart]

Does no-one agree that we’re better off lynching someone less likely to be a Pr on D1?

I do.

[Something_Smart]

Not if we lynch Billy.

[Something_Smart]

Which is also Billy. What a coincidence.

[Something_Smart]

Also, that's not even true. I'd rather lynch a vanilla with a lower chance of being scum than a cop with a higher chance.

[Something_Smart]

My point is that we have a chance of lynching a pr no matter who we go for.

That misses the actual point though. Billy has a far lower chance of being a PR than Xayah and if he is, he's likely to be a weaker one.

[Something_Smart]

Also I just realized your avatar is the album cover for Origin of Symmetry by Muse.

It's an awesome album.

[Something_Smart]

And if we hit a scum PR, then that's a huge advantage for the town.

A good PR like redirector or vig, sure, but those roles aren't going to make it to Billy. I'm not scared of a scum gunsmith, or a scum commuter, or a scum UB.

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE:

I'm getting tunneled.

I blame Sirfetchd.

[Something_Smart]

rb was 1026 a bluff or what?

[Something_Smart]

About to leave work but this:

Someone give me the cliff notes on billy scum case.

889 - 890

And then his recent posting felt very reactive. Don't remember any more off the top of my head.

[Something_Smart]

Do you think it's instinctual for newbtown to ignore pressure on them and instead go into hyperfocused solving mode?

False dichotomy. I would expect a natural response to be "damn, gotta show them how town I am," which isn't completely incongruous with what he did but it's definitely closer to the natural scum response of "damn, gotta get them off my back."

[Something_Smart]

My main issue here is I don't see how you think his defensiveness in this gamestate is scum indicative

I don't remember where I heard this

But someone talked about explaining how what you did COULD make sense from town is a scumtell, and it's super accurate to how I played as a newbie, and that's what I see

Idk why you're asking me to justify a read I just admitted I was tunneled into.

[Something_Smart]

Also sorry if you will be around in a few hours I can have much better real time interaction. Preparing to hand out candy to trick-or-treaters so I'm confined to my phone which makes this much harder.

[Something_Smart]

You got no other scumreads or avenues worth pursuing this close to deadline?

One scumread from me D1 is above average, you should know this...

[Something_Smart]

I think the read is phoney.

Why would I depart from my usual meta only to abandon it just when the wagon started to pick up?

[Something_Smart]

I'd also probably argue that backwards - what COULD make sense as a towntell is usually a towntell !

You probably misparsed it which in retrospect doesn't surprise me. Wording is hard.

Defending yourself by saying "these are the things I did, and this is why it's possible they're town motivated" is a scumtell.

[Something_Smart]

-terrible distracted mobile readlist incoming-
{noms, Luca} town
{Kerset, Flubber, Xayah} leantown.
{Aaron} I think I had a town leaning thought but idr
{rb, wooper, Sirfetchd} confusing and weird, {PM, Suji} I got nothing
{skitter} I thought town skitter was different from this but I may be wrong
{Billy} you are now exiting the tunnel, please keep all hands and feet inside the vehicle

[Something_Smart]

Back this up with actions pls.

You mean you want me to link where Billy did this?

[Something_Smart]

Noms felt really interactive, iirc she kept her distance in Undertale
Quite frankly scum Maria is not this LHF-y.
Skitter just felt overly showy like she was trying to maintain thread presence but not actually accomplish anything with it idk. Would have to look back when on computer.

Also it just started pouring, poor kids

[Something_Smart]

you are being blinded by your tunnel in to selectively scum reading people. I think it's probs Conf-bias you just aren't noticing.

Yeah of course it is, that's why I'm annoyed you guys keep asking me to explain.

[Something_Smart]

Hey SS, do you have any distinctions in your reads? Like say the day is ending and we need a Lynch and the two main wagons are Kerset and Xayah, where would you be going?

Neither probably, unless it's deadline and then whichever is more viable. I guess if I had to pick Kerset because lower on the draft.

[Something_Smart]

Fair, see above. Lets have a heart to heart. I'm in your null pool and you are in my town pool. Lets have some healthy discussion my friend.

Any chance it can wait a few hours

Like I can do it now but you'll get a lot clearer thoughts when I'm on my computer.

Pedit: yeah that

[Something_Smart]

I liek mechsolving

[Something_Smart]

oh i actually thought it was townie that you ignored it at the time

I didn't ignore it. I double down in response (1053), which he ignored.

[Something_Smart]

@ss i missed your post where you reacted to rb calling you out, i guess. I distinctly remember thinking it was townie that you didnt respond to it

Why would you think that though? I try to respond to all questions directed at me as town, and I will usually only let something intentionally drop if I'm scum hoping it gets forgotten.

[Something_Smart]

Separated because the submit button disapears for me if the post becomes too long on mobile

You can fix this by clicking any link on the page and then hitting the back button, at least that works for me. May not work on all OS/browsers.

[Something_Smart]

In a vaccuum i feel like scum is more likely to respond to that kind of bait

Highly player dependent. I certainly don't think I'd be more likely to challenge him like I did as scum, unless he were my partner.

[Something_Smart]

Yes, and...? Does that make Sirfetchd's point invalid?

[Something_Smart]

I'm the type who votes at 15 minutes, not 24 hours. It's all the same in the end.

[Something_Smart]

Lol, just realized this game's deadline falls at 1:30 am... but

which

1:30 am?

[Something_Smart]

Oof.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Aaron

[Something_Smart]

Yikes, hope everything's ok.

[Something_Smart]

> implying you do get meaningful wagonomics otherwise

[Something_Smart]

Does 1073 read as a scumclaim to you too?

[Something_Smart]

why is this a scumclaim?

If you stopped and thought about it for two seconds you'd realize that there's no way in hell Billy wasn't vanilla.

So why was this posted?

Well, so Aaron could emphasize of course that there's NO WAY he knew what Billy's role was because they're DEFINITELY NOT PARTNERS.

[Something_Smart]

Well gee, if only we had a cop to help us figure it out

[Something_Smart]

I don't see why anyone wouldn't take UB over role cop.

Scum would probably take rolecop.

[Something_Smart]

Well, let's hope there is one, then.

[Something_Smart]

how do you reconcile the fact that your top 2 scumreads are people that scumread each other

having two people as top scumreads does not imply that you think they are scum with each other, when only two scum remain.

[Something_Smart]

SS, do you agree that Flubs should claim?

Only if he's investigative, otherwise it doesn't really matter what he is.

[Something_Smart]

At the end of D1 the only thing that he talked about was Billy.

This is the only thing anyone wanted to ask me about.

I was the first person to actually case Billy (iirc). Why would I do that and then drop off just when the wagon started to get serious?

[Something_Smart]

This would be like classic scum distancing - generate a read which seems unaligned but get off when there's a chance of the lynch actually going through

That's not classic scum distancing, that's stupid scum distancing... when I bus, I commit to it.

[Something_Smart]

1536

[Something_Smart]

That plus soft defense of Billy plus lack of anything towny.

[Something_Smart]

No i'm p sure that was me, i thought ur vote boiled down to 'i'd rather lynch someone who i dont particularly scumread but is prob vt than someone i scumread who is prob a pr'

Well it did but I cased him after I voted him.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think there's much to talk about today.

[Something_Smart]

something_skittery where are your reads @ atm

{Luca}
{everyone}
{Aaron}

[Something_Smart]

Then why don't we just lynch someone and get this day overwith?

I'm all for that!

[Something_Smart]

I don't see [redacted].

Will finish that sentence before too long.

[Something_Smart]

A Jigglypuff for a Jigglypuff. What are the odds?

[Something_Smart]

Oh yeah. That's what 1727 was about.

I don't see scum-noms intentionally colliding with a partner and then not bringing it up while getting wagoned.

[Something_Smart]

Wanted to see her get to L-1 and react to L-1, in case she was saving that card for when she really needed it.

[Something_Smart]

Uhhh that's defeatist.

It's like when people go "I'm not a cynic, just a realist." Like dude you can be both.

[Something_Smart]

Do you guys think this is an actual slip from nom?

Not a snowball's chance in hell.

[Something_Smart]

Is it just Aaron/noms lmao

That would explain noms giving up and Aaron being hypertunneled on her.

[Something_Smart]

Gonna assume it's not for now because we never lose to that team.

[Something_Smart]

noms feels survivalistic

wut

[Something_Smart]

she's trying to look survivalistic rather than survive

See this sounds accurate. I don't think on any level she looks like she's doing anything to stay alive; she's voting Aaron because she purports to scumread him and not because he's the counterwagon.

[Something_Smart]

I think yesterday's flip also makes sense with Fetchd being scum.

It's possible, pig.

[Something_Smart]

This conversation





My head

[Something_Smart]

Take a guess at me, we've played a few games. I'll give you a hint. I am fairly sure I've hated playing with you in the past.

People who've hated playing with me... :thonk:

Pops?

[Something_Smart]

Is there a reason that Aaron should not claim here

[Something_Smart]

d3 we might wanna massclaim tbh

When we get a second scumflip and not before imo

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Aaron

[Something_Smart]

No, doesn't involve you just your theories.

Do you want people to talk about the theories or no?

[Something_Smart]

I still don't see the benefit of a massclaim, anyone with investigative results should be crumbing them, if you want to extract a specific type of information from anyone you can probably just state what specifically you're looking for and have people claim it.