Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[eth0s]

Prod dodging I'll be around in a few hours after work

[eth0s]

UNVOTE:

[eth0s]

Almost home. We aren't quickhammering this.

[eth0s]

I think I have missed random pages of the game because I thought TL was on L-1 when I unvoted and I just noticed chem unvoted him

[eth0s]

actually damn it no. there's a VC right above my unvote, I thought I was caught up but I don't remember the chem unvote and some of the quoted posts I don't remember either. I might need to reread the whole phase again. I'll be on for quite awhile I think. Is there anything anyone wants to talk about/ask me that is urgent though?

[eth0s]

Elbirn jumping on TL when he did instead of hammering like he has been advocating for this whole time seems really odd. I agree that some of his and TL's posts could be potential distancing if a scumteam.

[eth0s]

Elbirn's whole progression on TL seems really bad... or calculated. I cannot tell. At least one of them has to be scum I think.

[eth0s]

Starting my reread of the phase. I've been inebriated more than usual and really tired when I've checked in the last few days so I don't think my memory/comprehension of the phase is up to par.

I'll keep refreshing this last page too so hit me up if you wanna talk about something.

[eth0s]

It's just an odd progression. I get that time went on and we can't wait forever so I understand why town!you would progress the way you did but I'm also not convinced that's what's going on.

[eth0s]

I don't think the heavy AtE is helping you and would prefer you drop it if town because it's rather hypocritical to be calling people scum or garbage and then say that anyone calling you scum is calling you a "fucking mouth breathing idiot"

[eth0s]

TiphaineDeath has TiphaineDied in the night! he was a

Town Copscetic

Hello TiphaineDeath! You seem to be fortunate enough to have not been corrupted, so you are aligned with the town. You have been given abilities based on a Half-full/empty water bottle, making you a Copscetic Townie.

Philosophical quandary (Copscetic): you are a puzzling dilemma of ideology, confusing Cop-type (ones that return whether you meet a criteria or not) investigations so much they fail on you.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town is alive.

I think this was already addressed but I guess SoaS was supposed to inherit this role, mastina's, and/or anyone else that has a water role?

[eth0s]

Umm also deb's info was that there was at least one role in the game that had to do with water.

If my prior post is true then I'm thinking one of JJH/Elbirn is scum. Either jjh was onto something with the traitor idea he talked about or he knocked off SoaS due to the power he could gain when others died. I do not know what SoaS knew (the roles of the players that had water) but I believe jjh stated that he knew mastina had a water role. I don't remember there being any talk of TD having such a role. It seems weird that scum!jjh would shoot SoaS given that he could just shoot mastina (or whoever else he knew to have a water role) first and then assess what role SoaS got from reading the flip. At the same time scum!jjh would have partners factoring into the kill so that isn't concrete. Of course this could all be a wifom play from scum!jjh (perhaps using this own reasoning) down the line and taking out the backup as a means of future security. That seems like a bit of a long shot.

But at the same time we see EOD of phase one jjh is somewhat defending mastina iirc which I don't quite understand from a scum perspective... unless they are a team in which lynching mastina would never be viable for jjh, therefore he needed to take out the backup on night one. If this is the case then it explains the NK quite well and even moreso since a scum!mastina and scum!jjh team means jjh KNOWS the role that SoaS would receive (and mastina was looking pretty scummy and getting a lot of flak for her late "entrance" to D1). So it seems possible that scum!jjh could have been anticipating the mastina lynch and taking out SoaS as both a future security measure and a "what was that nightkill" kind of scenario where everyone clamors for an answer. Admit it or not I think pretty much everyone does some NKA in their head to try and make sense of things.

Pair this with his stance on the Korina wagon and I'm actually starting to wonder again if jjh is a viable lynch option today. Just as I type this out I realize how significant it feels compared to the traitor idea that jjh brought up to implicate a scum!elbirn and I'm wondering why someone of Mastina's status wouldn't point it out beyond the "mastina defends jjh as any alignment" or whatever the weird explanation for their relationship was. Quite frankly I'm now wondering how

any

experienced player hasn't caught on to the fact that the backup role guy shows up dead and the one he had a pt with isn't a top suspect given the reasoning I just explained with water roles and what that could imply for the future.

On the one hand I keep coming back to "why wouldn't he just knock off mastina N1 and shoot SoaS N2" but the potential that has already been pointed out for a scumpairing with him and mastina, plus how obvious that might look to take out the water role and then the backup (that jjh knew WAS a back up) shows that there is an extra layer of complexity here.

Given the fact that TD was a half full/empty water bottle (1/2 implying 2 water roles? him and mastina?) I have to wonder if SoaS divulged that information to jjh. If he did I would think scum!jjh might know the water but not the role seeing as
1. they obviously can't be scummates after seeing TD flip and
2. why shoot a copscetic if you already know his role?

Add to this jjh's enthusiasm to townread TD after the tinfoil posts (which I don't necessarily disagree with, just seems like weak reasoning for a town!jjh given his take on the game so far) that shortly accused jjh, and then TD shows up dead.

Is it a coincidence that jjh's stance on TD evolves like this, TD turns up dead the next day, and just so happens to be a water related role? Maybe. But I do not believe so.

VOTE: jjh

[eth0s]

You’re too much of a liability to live at this point anyway jjh

If it’s true and you’re town then I think it’s reasonably likely that scum just kill you tonight as you’ve claimed that if you take any damage you die, and scum prob have something that does at least some damage

So why keep you alive when there are always gonna be massive questions over your slot, there’s good reason to believe that you’ll flip red, and decent odds that if town then we just lose two town tonight?

I've got another potential scumpairing that I'm keeping tabs on and there's a few circumstancial pieces of evidence that I've noticed over the phase but upon my reread this post made me realize there may yet be even more.

And it's probably not what you would think given the post that I quoted, it's actually very removed from what I assume people would think given the quote. I am just quoting it to remind me of a certain thing depending on what flips today/tonight.

[eth0s]

I wish chem would have answered my question awhile back about if he knew what item(s) momo submitted but 1395 (specifically the answer to it) actually (I think) got the information I wanted. Which is that chem didn't have the PT access at the beginning, therefore he probably also didn't/doesn't know what items were submitted for his slot. Both of these are mod errors if true, and the amount of time it took to replace momo was also mod error.

Therefore I do not believe chemist necessarily deserves the benefit of the doubt. Overall I do still think he is town. I think a scum!TL flip would actually confirm chemist as town but if TL were to flip green I think my trust in chem would fall substantially. Obvious jjh's flip/actions would also play a role here but I don't want to go to into that right now.

[eth0s]

That was such a WIFOMy fucking kill, my god

Probably implies 1 of (elbirn, mastina)

thoughts on 1916?

[eth0s]

The kill makes sense because TD was obvtown

That's really easy to say after seeing TD bleed green...

I'm kinda confused tbh, but TD green makes jjh highly likely to be scum.

VOTE: jjh927

Okay.. you too. Thoughts on 1916? If you're town for the love of god please give me something to work with.

[eth0s]

I am claiming a softclear on jjh

We should not be hammering him this early, and probably not at all

Elaborate

Don’t do that chem

agreed^ fwiw that seemed kind of fishy from elbirn as well

p-edit hey mena whats up

[eth0s]

I am claiming a softclear on jjh

We should not be hammering him this early, and probably not at all

Elaborate

I rolecopped jjh last night

I know his role is accurate to what he's claiming, and would likely be negative utility for scum

I will go into no further detail

Considering Elements was a scum bloodhound my likelyhood of trusting that claim is like .1%

actually mindmeld with TL here. I already addressed my thoughts on this situation but it is worth noting that TL pointing it out first gives him some sort of towncred (to me at least)

[eth0s]

I am against a massclaim right now. There's a lot of shit going on and a lot of night actions to wonder about but I'm thinking that would help scum more at the moment.

At least from my understanding a mass claim hurts town when we are this far from lylo (based on the assumption of 3 scum)

[eth0s]

Well I have too many scumreads/leans right now to say I feel 3 scum is confirmed but I have this itching suspicion of an arsonist or something similar. I guess we'll know when we all go up in flames.

p-edit
jjh as long as you don't break the rules surrounding not quoting private information then I would like to hear anything that's going to help me sort you. Because I feel like it's not really a conspiracy theory at all.

[eth0s]

I am claiming a softclear on jjh

We should not be hammering him this early, and probably not at all

Elaborate

I rolecopped jjh last night

I know his role is accurate to what he's claiming, and would likely be negative utility for scum

I will go into no further detail

Considering Elements was a scum bloodhound my likelyhood of trusting that claim is like .1%

actually mindmeld with TL here. I already addressed my thoughts on this situation but it is worth noting that TL pointing it out first gives him some sort of towncred (to me at least)

Why does TL not believe the claim when *he gave chemist the rolecop shot*

The negative utility for scum part. I'm (and TL was) saying scum had a fucking bloodhound so why should we be so certain that whatever chemist knows isn't just another weird scum role. At least that's how I took TL's post.

p-edit yeah what mena said

[eth0s]

Well I have too many scumreads/leans right now to say I feel 3 scum is confirmed but I have this itching suspicion of an arsonist or something similar. I guess we'll know when we all go up in flames.

p-edit
jjh as long as you don't break the rules surrounding not quoting private information then I would like to hear anything that's going to help me sort you. Because I feel like it's not really a conspiracy theory at all.

I mean, it's a theory that I'm hiding a conspiracy from you in the PT with deb

I'm confused. I just think that you used info deb gave you to make calculated kills. Or at the very least it factored into it. If you think giving us a summary of the PT helps your case then go for it

[eth0s]

What’s an arsonist?

With all the roles I would think scum needs more power not less, so if there were a traitor I think it’s more likely to be 3+1 than 2+1 where the scum team is slightly underpowered to compensate

agreed

[eth0s]

Oh and an arsonist douses people with gas and can continue to douse people until they choose to ignite then everyone doused will burn and die together.

[eth0s]

Well I have too many scumreads/leans right now to say I feel 3 scum is confirmed but I have this itching suspicion of an arsonist or something similar. I guess we'll know when we all go up in flames.

p-edit
jjh as long as you don't break the rules surrounding not quoting private information then I would like to hear anything that's going to help me sort you. Because I feel like it's not really a conspiracy theory at all.

I mean, it's a theory that I'm hiding a conspiracy from you in the PT with deb

I'm confused. I just think that you used info deb gave you to make calculated kills. Or at the very least it factored into it. If you think giving us a summary of the PT helps your case then go for it

The main thing to note is that deb only told me he was informed that there was at least one role in the game that had to do with water. I knew nothing else about his role

mastina outed her own water thing pretty quickly. I still think that's weird. And I still think you might've already known that before she said it. Like I said, feel free to post the not-logs if the mod okays it but the main thing I'm concerned about is something you could omit anyway so I'm just not sure what it'll prove

[eth0s]

Oh and an arsonist douses people with gas and can continue to douse people until they choose to ignite then everyone doused will burn and die together.

Sounds kinky, I’m in

found the arsonist.

On a serious note, mena. Why does it feel like you're itching to vote me and why does it feel like you've become so trustworthy of jjh given your past relationship this game?

You've made a few posts implying that you're worried about my alignment and it really sticks out to me now that you're asking jjh how he feels.

[eth0s]

Less scum than TL, more scum than everyone else in the game

Because I'm getting flashbacks to the time when a load of people lynched scum!mastina while I said she was town because of some role stuff. I've realised I just don't really try to place mastina very hard

I know I have scum colored lenses on right now but this looks weird.

[eth0s]

essentially putting her in the null-scum category for... less than optimal reasons.

I still don't totally understand the mastina/jjh relationship out of this game but it feels like a cop out. Maybe that's

because

I don't know about it but idk.

[eth0s]

Jjh you've ignored me asking why mastina was a townread all game and now shes a scumread of yours

Thefuck

I'll help you bus your buddy if you want but I'm not happy

VOTE: Mastina

I think she was a townread because it was easy for me to just say she was town and be done with it ngl. I've gained a bit of self awareness

I'm not voting there yet;

I'm looking for something when she next starts posting

her next post

Umm also deb's info was that there was at least one role in the game that had to do with water.

My role also has to do with water; I'm a 2-liter water bottle. My ability is rather different from TD's tho.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I need to think about this one.

[eth0s]

mastina is a bad vote for today because she dies tonight.

this still confuses the fuck out of me.

[eth0s]

Eth0s, since it's not actually important any more because I think I misjudged mastina's thought process, what I was looking for was to see whether or not she suddenly started to scumread me

Noted.

I need a mental break. I'm going tunnel mode and that isn't going to be helpful in the middle of my D3 reread so ttfn

[eth0s]

A Town Inventor (Rolecop, Doctor, Roleblocker)

We can all tell that this is a scumclaim yes, right?
I don't need to explain why it is one, yes?

I think I know what you're saying but if so I'm guilty of doing the same thing as town.

I still think TL has a good chance of flipping scum but you and jjh make a way more sensible team than TL + anyone else. There's more evidence that jjh flips red than you but if he does I am insta voting you.

[eth0s]

Was that it?

get used to it. I'll honestly compromise on lynching mastina this phase if she really doesn't expand on that soon because I'm tired of dealing with this. She didn't even address my big post at all

p-edit oh hey so you want to tell me why I'm wrong about jjh (and you) then?

[eth0s]

And what do you think about the way elbirn has progressed on TL over the phase

[eth0s]

if I think jjh is flipping green why would I vote jjh?

what

[eth0s]

oh she's doing the catch up thing again. Nice.

[eth0s]

A Town Inventor (Rolecop, Doctor, Roleblocker)

We can all tell that this is a scumclaim yes, right?
I don't need to explain why it is one, yes?

I think I know what you're saying but if so I'm guilty of doing the same thing as town.

That wouldn't be it then.

then it seems you should explain.

I'm not interested in commenting on why I'm voting jjh over TL until you acknowledge the giant fucking post I wrote specifically about that.

[eth0s]

Was that it?

get used to it. I'll honestly compromise on lynching mastina this phase if she really doesn't expand on that soon because I'm tired of dealing with this. She didn't even address my big post at all

What was there to address?

It was a post of self-evident paranoia. It's moonlogic based on hypotheses that violate occam's razor. I didn't address it because there was nothing in there to address. It was empty spitballing about a theory you had which has no evidence to back it.

yeah so it's just a coincidence I guess?

nice buzzwords btw

[eth0s]

What's changed since this

Okay here's where I'm at with TL. I think I physically feel a blood vessel popping in my head just trying to parse his recent posts. So forgive me if this seems heavy handed but even if I regret it later I am sticking to it.

I am going to QUICKHAMMER TL if he gets to L-1 at any point in Day 2

yes you read that right. All day one -- before it was interrupted abruptly with the bad korina lynch -- I had been trying to figure out how I am going to approach TL.

I thought to myself "do I just push a policy lynch?"
"do I wait to see some kind of behavior that differs from our last game?" (the alien talk trolling BS is the only think I have noticed here so far but that feels really weak)
"do I just ignore him and let the rest of the town decide his fate?"

like I said, I never got an answer before the day closed.

Now it's Day 2.
It's too late to policy lynch him so here is where I'm at.
If I see the differing behavior on a level that actually strikes me as AI, I'm going to deathtunnel that shit jjh style.
I can't ignore him anymore, he is actually triggering me.

SO I am left with two options in my mind.

I either avoid voting him like the plague until mylo/lylo where my working theory is that people will actually be able to somewhat read him based on PoE, OR if it comes to it, at least for the current dayphase I QUICKHAMMER HIM IF HE HITS L-1

I mentally can't try to sort that slot for the time being. Like I really just can't so

TREAT HIS L-2 LIKE AN L-1 AND GET HIS CLAIM THERE IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF YOUR VOTE BECAUSE I SWEAR TO GOD I AM QUICKLYNCHING HIM IF YOU GIVE ME THE CHANCE

For starters that only applied to day 2.
Other than that I could quote you everything I've said in the last 24 or so hours but I don't see that as a great option so I'll summarize instead.

There is actual fruitful conversation going on.
Your positioning on elements wagon was horrible, makes your stance on korina look even worse, SoaS and TD deaths make NO SENSE to anyone except you (and mastina by way of water role).
^everything else I pointed out in 1916 that I didn't cover here
I actually agree with some of TD's logic this phase particularly surrounding why it doesn't make sense to assume chemist is right about your alignment based on the role info he received, given the scum bloodhound.
And to a much lesser degree I often see the lynch after one like elements being just totally wrong. At least from my perspective when I'm apart of it. I felt very strongly that Elements would flip scum. That's why I advocated for his lynch so hard over my other scumreads. It didn't hurt that he wasn't cooperating with me or giving good answers to anyone honestly.

But then there's TL who I always have to view with the possibility of mislynch bait based on what I know from his meta. It just seems too risky because he hasn't said anything that leads me to believe he's playing a "different game" other than the weird alien/demon/ghost shit or whatever you'd call it.
what hasn't changed:
TL posting very odd and scummy things
my willingness to lynch TL if it seems like the only possible thing out of {jjh, mastina, TL}

Looks like elbirn wants to take up the reins as the quickhammer guy anyway so that may influnce my decision honestly

[eth0s]

I don't expect that anyone actually read the Crosswords game I linked but the way TL plays is just so fucking bizarre to me and having dealt with him first hand being what turned out to be mislynch bait that

absolutely

would have been mislynched if not for being a PR, it makes it really hard for me to commit to that. If I knew you and mastina were town I'd definitely be more optimistic about him flipping scum but I'm not sure if you'll be able to convince me at this point given your wagon history. And Mastina "isn't even trying" in this game due to [redacted] which would normally be rule breaking but apparently it isn't in this game.

You're equally if not more scummy than TL is and given the fact that you might have some super powerful ability coming up and all of the other "paranoid conspiracy" (-mastina) that points to you makes me really not feel safe with you in the game anymore. I was willing to give you a chance for the day but the findings of 1916 and Elbirn's approach to TL made me reconsider. Chemist saying nothing beyond "his role is probably town" does zilch to comfort me for reasons already mentioned a million times.

[eth0s]

if it's a 3 scum game then I believe it's
1{jjh, mastina}; 2{TL, Elbirn}; 3{TL, [redacted black]}; 4{[redacted black], [redacted green]}; 5{[redacted white], elbirn}; 6{mastina, ???}; 7{jjh, [redacted white]}
in order of most to least likely pairings.
These are subject to change mostly hinging on a flip at this point it seems.

a red flip in anything heavily implicates the other player in the pair.

a green flip in group 1 (jjh) most likely implicates group 3 or 2.
a green flip in group 1 (mastina) most likely implicates group 2

a green flip in group 2 (elbirn) most likely implicates group 3 or 1.
a green flip in group 2/3 (TL) most likely implicates group 1.

anything 3/4+ is a long shot but comes into the picture depending on the flip.

I don't care to expand on this right now, it's more of a reference for later.
If you think you know who I am referring to in the redacted brackets please just keep it to yourself.

[eth0s]

If it's not obvious I'm only interested in voting in the first 2 pairs today and elbirn I see unlikely compared to the rest.

[eth0s]

I wouldn't call it an "issue" so much as a fact of my perspective. But yeah more or less.

[eth0s]

wow that's a lot of content to address. falling asleep so i'll get to it in the morning.

[eth0s]

This suji/mastina argument has basically turned into
"players play a town game the same way every game regardless of outside factors" -suji
vs
"it's impossible to fake good, towny posts as scum" -mastina

and I am almost certain one of them is scum at this point. Obviously I lean scum!Mastina over scum!Suji but it really doesn't read like a TvT argument.

In a game where there are no/less factors in it than this one I would typically consider Suji to be the scum for his position but given the context of the game and my reads right now (with an honorable mention that Mastina should know better than to imply that a scum can't "my posts are so towny" their way into deepwolfing) Mastina is probably the scum of the two.

The way I see it:
a Mastina redflip means jjh is the partner like 99% (I still think given the odds that I see here jjh should go first but I digress).
a suji redflip means... I don't really know honestly. Elbirn would probably be the partner there but I don't think Suji is getting lynched today anyway so I don't feel like efforting much there. I would imagine others probably think it implicates me and that's understandable honestly.
(other likely rope candidates today)
a TL redflip points probably to elbirn but potentially [redacted black] too. his partner is straight up chemist if a pure/not-disloyal scum inventor though. I'm still interested to know why people (mena and chemist I think) believe that I would be the scummate there btw.

[eth0s]

ebwop in case this post ever becomes relevant

if it's a 3 scum game then I believe it's
1{jjh, mastina}; 2{TL, Elbirn}; 3{TL, [redacted black]}; 4{[redacted black], [redacted green]}; 5{[redacted white], elbirn}; 6{mastina, ???}; 7{jjh, [redacted black]}

I derped #7 in my method to assign players to colors

[eth0s]

shit i meant to be able to ctrl-F that easily

if it's a 3 scum game then I believe it's
1{jjh, mastina}; 2{TL, Elbirn}; 3{TL, [redacted black]}; 4{[redacted black], [redacted green]}; 5{[redacted white], elbirn}; 6{mastina, ???}; 7{jjh, [redacted black]}

~~~~~

[eth0s]

ammending something else after thinking on it

if it's a 3 scum game then I believe it's
1{jjh, mastina}; 2{TL, Elbirn}; 3{TL, [redacted pink]}; 4{[redacted black], [redacted green]}; 5{[redacted white], elbirn}; 6{mastina, ???}; 7{jjh, [redacted black]}

~~~~~

[eth0s]

Fuck why did your scumgame have to be good now I have to think again

the one with fugitive?

[eth0s]

I'm not sure how mastina is scum other than "mastina is possibly a deepwolf so we have to be paranoid"

did you even read my jjh&mastina case

[eth0s]

I'd love to talk you off of this but you keep coming back with weird shit, and you're right that nothing either me or mastina can say is likely to convince you, because you are excessively inclined to place additional value on your own logic and conclusions

I mean your stance on both lynches so far has either been wrong town or scum motivated so I'm not sure what your point is

Like, the SoaS and TD deaths make sense because I searched for a reason that they would make sense.

Your reasoning for SoaS relies on a traitor theory that you can't even find any crumbs from Elbirn to support

You have no idea what is going through Chemist's head when he looks at my role because you don't know what my role is.

Have you even tried to put yourself in my shoes? I know it's hard as scum to do so but you act like my thoughts on why keeping you alive is a bad idea has no merit.

You type out a lot of words and construct a large post that is a web of assumptions you can't make, and I feel like you've been effectively unphased by a lot of different very valid counterarguments.
This is, ideally, a cooperative game. I think we're on the same team. I might want to meta-dive you in a bit because you are somehow legitimately concerning me with things I don't think should be in anyone's scumrange, due to how vehemently you are disagreeing with me on logic that doesn't stand.

If you're actually town then obviously we approach the game differently. I steered the wagon on elements and you veered off of it in a very sketchy manner. I know this is kind of an asshole thing to say since you've already acknowledged all of this but that doesn't make it any less true.

[eth0s]

I'm not sure how mastina is scum other than "mastina is possibly a deepwolf so we have to be paranoid"

did you even read my jjh&mastina case

no

okay

1916

Read it and tell me your thoughts or else I am seeing this through.
VOTE: elements
I've given you the benefit of the doubt when I really don't have to so I don't think it's fair for you to try and shoot down my cases when you don't even fucking read them

[eth0s]

It's the consistency of it all that explains everything, tbh

You could have been scum because you somehow ended up on the right side of the Korina lynch with reasoning that I would still shoot down with hindsight, and you could feasibly have been scum bussing elements though that's less likely, but you're not because the reason we ended up on opposite sides there is that our playstyles are extremely different, and that has been consistently visible. And I don't think anyone could fake that kind of thing throughout the whole of a game

Reasoning that you would shoot down with hindsight? I literally gave the town a fucking alternative to deal with the situation where we statistically SHOULD HAVE HAD AN ADVANTAGE regardless of whether korina was scum or town.

"our playstyles are extremely different, and that has been consistently visible. And I don't think anyone could fake that kind of thing throughout the whole of a game"

I don't even get how this implies that I'm town because if I have a truly different playstyle than you it wouldn't matter what my alignment is and I wouldn't have to fake anything. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you said it just looks like you're trying to appeal to my emotion or at the very least manipulate me with bad logic

[eth0s]

Damn I think I found the game which explains why we went about the two lynches so differently

What game?

[eth0s]

The inventor is clearly not supposed to increase scum power or he wouldn't have given all his abilities to Chemist

I honestly want to comment on this one but it's gonna start a whole stupid argument that I don't want to get into so how about someone else tells me what's wrong with this post

[eth0s]

New line of inquiry:

2037 is an awful post but TL seems to take something from it

would a copscetic block a bloodhound result too? if not then 2037 could actually bring forth an important discussion.

[eth0s]

It is infuriating me to do so because I am growing more confident that you're just being obtuse on purpose here, but I'm gonna try to actually engage with you here

okay this actually looks like it could be a town response

[eth0s]

half of what you just said is literally restating things I have said in the last 10 pages and the other half makes me think you didn't even read the post

I'm so confused. Like honestly WHAT ARE YOU SAYING

[eth0s]

where the

fuck

did I say that I think jjh is town

[eth0s]

UNVOTE:

[eth0s]

Like I don't even know. If anyone else was saying what you're saying I would just think they're scum trying to misrep me but you're you and you did this same shit in crosswords and I don't fucking understand what's going through your head

[eth0s]

and my thoughts on your case are that your case implicates jjh/mastina are scum together, nothing about mastina being scum on her own

yes. That's true. But not even close to the analysis I was hoping you'd give. I'm not going to pull your teeth for something better though

and no I said it looked like a towny response and that's just a factor into everything I've seen from him this game. That doesn't mean I think he is town...

[eth0s]

Fuck why did your scumgame have to be good now I have to think again

the one with fugitive?

Yeah rainforest
Is that an anomaly?

Damn I think I found the game which explains why we went about the two lynches so differently

What game?

Newbie 1844

I dont have many scum games and that was the first one since I came back

[eth0s]

Came back to the site after not playing for about a year I mean

[eth0s]

I'm not sure how mastina is scum other than "mastina is possibly a deepwolf so we have to be paranoid"

did you even read my jjh&mastina case

no

okay

1916

Read it and tell me your thoughts or else I am seeing this through.
VOTE: elements
I've given you the benefit of the doubt when I really don't have to so I don't think it's fair for you to try and shoot down my cases when you don't even fucking read them

Who were you actually trying to vote here

Ugh, TL. Although that's pretty obvious from the post no?

TL, Elbirn, Elements, and earlier EP have all had their names scrambled in my head during this game. Mastina and Korina as well.

[eth0s]

The inventor is clearly not supposed to increase scum power or he wouldn't have given all his abilities to Chemist

I honestly want to comment on this one but it's gonna start a whole stupid argument that I don't want to get into so how about someone else tells me what's wrong with this post

I tried to analyze this before but my brain broke and I stopped caring

Tldr theres some weird circular logic here where JJ is assuming the intent of the setup design is such that a hypothetical scum inventor is supposed to power up town based on what TL chose to do with the role, but that doesnt logically follow and assumes the alignments of two players as a reason for one of those two being scum

If that made any sense which it didnt

If I were a bad person I'd also throw out some pedantic shit about how "oh he KNOWS chemist is town based on that post" but I'm not so I won't. But I feel like that might be the point you wanted made so there

I think I know what you're saying and while I hadn't independently thought of that logic I did feel that jjh's post did not feel genuine and even if it was I dont feel inclined to agree with him due to his setup spec so far. I know I'm beating a dead horse but I feel like that topic has been overlooked by many still.

I was mainly looking for someone to be a bad person and point out the pedantic shit though. I wonder if your phrasing in that regard has anything to do with the fact that both you and jjh have seemed to TMI on a town!chemist this game?...

[eth0s]

Btw starting in a couple hours I will very likely be unavailable until the deadline or close to it.

Pretty confident that jjh flips red here and this will likely be my vote for the remainder of the phase.

VOTE: jjh

[eth0s]

I was mainly looking for someone to be a bad person and point out the pedantic shit though. I wonder if your phrasing in that regard has anything to do with the fact that both you and jjh have seemed to TMI on a town!chemist this game?...

Oh no it has everything to do with slips not being real

I hate that I can't play this game as town and say "oh so and so is town" without some internet boy genius going "heh *smirks, pushes up glasses* I think you meant to say you THINK so and so is town"

If I'm catching scum I'm not doing it by analyzing word choice

I see your point in regards to jjh but as far as you're concerned you both implied that korina was going to flip green and straight up accepted chemist as conftown eod 1.

[eth0s]

eth0s you still around?

Yeah what's up

[eth0s]

o i thought you were still waiting to hammer, whoopsie

No that was dumb and a meme I just want my vote in play

I'm confused. Is this you saying you now realize it's dumb or are you saying you were joking about it the whole time.

[eth0s]

Day 4 as in DAY 4 or night 4? I haven't played with day roles before

[eth0s]

UNVOTE:
I want to think about this

[eth0s]

wait if this is a day role it makes sense I think.

what do you think mena

[eth0s]

well at least in one regard it does. god dammit role madness is hard

[eth0s]

Instead of what? I'm either still going to vote jjh, you, or elbirn. That doesn't mean I can't try to figure out what's going on before I contribute to ending the day.

p-edit what does sensitive mean in this context

[eth0s]

I'm tempted to just vote TL because I'm in a bad mood and he's antagonizing me for bad reason but I'm also interested in how mena was going to try and "sell me" on elbirn

[eth0s]

VOTE: TL

[eth0s]

scumslipped. for real this time I think

[eth0s]

jjh needs to survive to D4 (and is likely town from the claim)

Considering Elements was a scum bloodhound my likelyhood of trusting that claim is like .1%

There's only one condition I can think of where both of these posts make sense from town. So tell me why you progressed this way.

[eth0s]

I think TL is at L-1 but I cba to check the VC

[eth0s]

because jjh actually hardclaimed a role that made sense and no sane scum would ever fakeclaim given the earlier D4 claim

what? it's not the role I'm talking about. It's why you are now saying it's likely of town alignment.

Don't get me wrong, I could understand where this logic is coming from given the situation but I'm holding back reasoning because I don't think it's actually factoring into your decision here.

[eth0s]

I'm beyond lost right now but I'm done letting that deter me from voting you because it feels like you're intentionally being confusing

[eth0s]

fwiw I have no idea if TL is likely to lie in this post-hammer scenario. If one of him and jjh isn't scum I will eat a dirty tube sock though.

[eth0s]

mena I'm assuming you targetted one of them last night?

[eth0s]

crickets

[eth0s]

I roleblocked suji last night tho? so um

oops

And I roleblocked you >.>

[eth0s]

I need to know why they killed my dude deb

Honestly the main reason I wanted to is that anyone comfortable enough to play a game mode like this (more complicated than what I normally play) on a shitposting alt scares me. You reaffirmed my thoughts in D1 twilight I believe when you said he was being quite helpful in your pt or something along those lines. Maybe the timeline doesnt add up bc it has been awhile but I thought you and son would be the two least likely to be lynched and most likely to catch us

[eth0s]

After the TL flip I had a bit of a theory about a bus driver existing but I'm not sure about it

Fun fact, that was ones of the developmemt roles, specifically for eth0s

I never thought about keys like that. Glad I didnt get bus driver tho tbh

[eth0s]

Like, I'm trying to figure out what the plan would be there

But anyone he claimed to have targeted would have been mechanically cleared
Meanwhile, anyone you targeted the night before would be mechanically cleared

My plan was hoping chemist wouldn't claim such a thing. I also wanted to potentially flip it on mena claiming he must've rbed chemist but that would've been a last ditch effort because I would've likely had my claim to mena exposed in the process.

I was hoping to lynch elbirn/suji D4 and do anything possible to avoid a mass claim so I could shoot mena and think of a better role to claim tbh

[eth0s]

Jailkeeper is just not a claim solo scum can bring to lylo from that point

Also if he'd claimed to have targeted Elbirn, which is what I would expect, he'd have got caught out at massclaim when people added up the damage

I think he needed to kill you so he could start with a fresh claim there

Hehe

[eth0s]

And he thought mastina would be on you?

Fun fact. I actually targeted chem and mastina. I was motivated.

[eth0s]

I can't be the only one who assumed D4 was gonna be massclaim after we flipped a second scum

I pretty much accepted defeat when TL died. All of my goals were more dreams at that point

[eth0s]

I busted too hard this game. I didnt want to bus elements but it looked like he was destined to go down if EP didnt on D2. I couldn't push EP because I thought he was sifting some kind of loyal fruit vendor or loyal friendly neighbor or something. In hindsight I dont think there was any way for me to back up his claim as either alignment (as it seems like it all hinges on me taking damage which i did not know of).

I would have hard pushed EP if I felt safe in doing so.

[eth0s]

I bused too hard

[eth0s]

Also really wanted to avoid busing TL but his lynch seemed inevitable and I believe his perspective change was a legitimate scumslip and I wanted first grabs on that before mastina or jjh called it out.

I was a pretty shitty scummate this game sorry guys

[eth0s]

Also I think the only reason people town read me besides busing elements was my stance on korina D1 which actually had some

very evil

motivation behind it even aside from the obvious towncred I was seeking to gain. Am I wrong about that?

[eth0s]

Although you didnt agree with the korina logic you really think it was likely to come from scum? I mean obviously it did but I spent a few hours devising a stance that I personally would have found very compelling as town.

I think you and I truly do have different playstyles and overall you are more knowledgeable than me by a good margin when it comes to setup and stuff like that. I mean no offense when I ask if you are perhaps biased since I spent the majority of the game sharing you over the korina thing

[eth0s]

Shading you*

[eth0s]

Also sorry mena you were fun to play with and I felt bad for AtE'ing you like that

[eth0s]

In hindsight I dont think there was any way for me to back up his claim as either alignment (as it seems like it all hinges on me taking damage which i did not know of).

Part of our role meant that when we shot you the first time all mod messages the next phase would be missing the letters TOAST.

Heat Up: Each night you may target a player, dealing 1 hit of damage to them. A player with 2 hits of damage on them at the end of the night dies.
Toasted (Feedback Disruptor): due to the pain from being heated in a toaster, feedback received the day after a player is hit by "Heat Up" will lack letters of the word TOAST. This happens regardless of damage nullification.
Short Circuit (Conditional Bomb): if you are targeted by a liquid based active ability, your electrical parts get damaged and you blow up, dying and taking out a player of your choice.

I'm confused how this is supposed to help me clear you. I dont receive feedback for anything so if that applies to me then I fail to see how I would have any feedback to reference

[eth0s]

Yeah, I think this game is more evidence that bussing isn’t necessarily effective unless you’re hard and early, and even then you have to explain not being the NK after that. I thought you played a good scumgame, but tbh I think you prob should have made different NKs. I don’t think the people you focussed on eliminating were doing a lot, and I think that made it easier to eliminate your partners. Killing me/jjh early would prob have been better I think, as it would have let you control the momentum and direction of the game more.

I didnt have any pings on roles N1 but I felt like jjh and son would be menaces to deal with throughout the game. We were hoping to get info on jjh that night and I thought he was possibly mislynchable so I didnt wanna kill him.

I knew you were TRing me so I wanted to keep you around.

Momo/chemist was nonexistent

TD hadnt done much at that point

Mastina looked kind of bad from her catch up I think

Adorable was pretty much null to all

Elbirn also felt mislynchable

Suji/EP also felt quite mislynchable

Night 2 I still think we had no info on roles and TD started getting to read by all with his townspewing, plus I knew he would want to lynch TL so I advocated for that one


This isnt me arguing that we made the right kills, rather looking for advice on what would've been better

[eth0s]

In hindsight I dont think there was any way for me to back up his claim as either alignment (as it seems like it all hinges on me taking damage which i did not know of).

Part of our role meant that when we shot you the first time all mod messages the next phase would be missing the letters TOAST.

Heat Up: Each night you may target a player, dealing 1 hit of damage to them. A player with 2 hits of damage on them at the end of the night dies.
Toasted (Feedback Disruptor): due to the pain from being heated in a toaster, feedback received the day after a player is hit by "Heat Up" will lack letters of the word TOAST. This happens regardless of damage nullification.
Short Circuit (Conditional Bomb): if you are targeted by a liquid based active ability, your electrical parts get damaged and you blow up, dying and taking out a player of your choice.

I'm confused how this is supposed to help me clear you. I dont receive feedback for anything so if that applies to me then I fail to see how I would have any feedback to reference

Yeah this the thng I most should have made sure to have my backup aware of

I still dont understand how it would effect me? Like what is considered feedback and who would be missing the TOAST letters?

[eth0s]

Gj on the shots by EP and suji btw. Was not expecting that whatsoever

[eth0s]

I do regret busing elements. To be fair I thought he was going to claim a guilty on jjh and then I was gonna change votes but he didnt do that

I think by day 3 I really didnt have much choice but to bus TL given the way I played but if I could've avoided it I'd like to hear some advice on that too

[eth0s]

You should have killed me instead of deb

I am extremely difficult to mislynch

25% failure chance from bloodhound fucked us. You were gonna die n2 if we knew you could power everyone up

[eth0s]

I still dont understand how it would effect me? Like what is considered feedback and who would be missing the TOAST letters?

Each daystart everyone was supposed to get a message, it would have included
>nieghborhoods from Korina's role
>actions results if needed
>inventions received
>role changes triggered by jjh's role
and if none of those were there a base "nothing happened for you" message would have happened.

Oooooh

Luckily I dont think it ever ended up making a difference?

[eth0s]

I think suji put me out if my misery. Day 4 was going to be hell against you fuckers even if jjh died like he was supposed to

[eth0s]

You should have killed me instead of deb

I am extremely difficult to mislynch

25% failure chance from bloodhound fucked us. You were gonna die n2 if we knew you could power everyone up

It was an alignment check though, not a role check?

WOW I actually didnt even realize that. If I did then I forgot it immediately and assumed he would see roles LMAO

Who was 3p??? Elbirn? Chemist?

[eth0s]

For the record I don't think I usually suck this much to play with as scum.

No offense intended but I believe both of my scummate played pretty obv scummy and thought I had a pretty good chance of deepwolfing hard this game. I still regret busing them both, I've never done it that hard and feel bad about it

[eth0s]

You should have killed me instead of deb

I am extremely difficult to mislynch

25% failure chance from bloodhound fucked us. You were gonna die n2 if we knew you could power everyone up

It was an alignment check though, not a role check?

WOW I actually didnt even realize that. If I did then I forgot it immediately and assumed he would see roles LMAO

Who was 3p??? Elbirn? Chemist?

There was no 3p
bloodhound was meant as a red herring + a believable claim

Oh okay. Will mod/dead/scum/neighbor PTs be released. I am on mobile so maybe I missed it if you already said so

[eth0s]

That was a role you were supposed to get towncred for trueclaiming, while giving you a plausible out to getting results every day

Combine that with the inventor who can make a rolecop and suddenly you've got chains of clearing yourselves

That's a whole other thing. I can see making someone a role cop potentially helping us kinda (doctor and rb not as much) but TL was supposed to potentially get "benefits" for giving out inventions. I'm not sure if that was % based chance or what but I dont think he ever got benefits and I feel like his role kinda sucked for the purpose of balance?

[eth0s]

Like, you could have had TL NOT give anything out in N1 but pretend he gave you a rolecop
then, provided you didn't bus elements, you pretend you rolecopped him in N2

Didnt elements see modifiers with it tho? I suppose that could have worked but then he would just have to hang onto the role cop invention for the rest of the game to make me believable right?

[eth0s]

Yeah, I think this game is more evidence that bussing isn’t necessarily effective unless you’re hard and early, and even then you have to explain not being the NK after that. I thought you played a good scumgame, but tbh I think you prob should have made different NKs. I don’t think the people you focussed on eliminating were doing a lot, and I think that made it easier to eliminate your partners. Killing me/jjh early would prob have been better I think, as it would have let you control the momentum and direction of the game more.

I didnt have any pings on roles N1 but I felt like jjh and son would be menaces to deal with throughout the game. We were hoping to get info on jjh that night and I thought he was possibly mislynchable so I didnt wanna kill him.

I knew you were TRing me so I wanted to keep you around.

Momo/chemist was nonexistent

TD hadnt done much at that point

Mastina looked kind of bad from her catch up I think

Adorable was pretty much null to all

Elbirn also felt mislynchable

Suji/EP also felt quite mislynchable

Night 2 I still think we had no info on roles and TD started getting to read by all with his townspewing, plus I knew he would want to lynch TL so I advocated for that one


This isnt me arguing that we made the right kills, rather looking for advice on what would've been better

I would always argue to NK to increase scum control of gamestate, I think, and I think you would have benefitted from having a long term plan on who you wanted to bring to lylo with you and who you were gonna try to mislynch there.

Jjh and I were two of the most active players I think, in terms of moving the game around, and even if we were conflicting at times that weakened your hold on things. Mastina would have been a solid NK later in the game, especially if she’d become more active, or you could have targeted her via elbirn.

I would have liked either me or jjh N1, and the other N2. After talking with me in the pt, I think you probably should have nk’d jjh then hard pushed EP instead of letting the elements lynch happen D2 even with you getting credit for the bus. Then kill me N2 which frees you up to claim whatever you like if needed.

At that point you’d have a game of: you, ele, TL, TD, SoaS, adorable, mastina, chem, Elbirn

You might have needed to 1v1 mastina there if she’d become active, but I think that would have been a pretty promising gamestate. If you managed to mislynch let’s say elbirn there, you could kill mastina and then push either SoaS or adorable for the win.

I like the logic there except EP scared the shit out if me when he said I should be able to verify his claim. I felt like I couldn't touch him anymore (see all my weirdness around him following that statement)

We should have killed him n2 if nothing else though. Especially now knowing he would kill me lol

[eth0s]

Jjh seemed untouchable after he claimed and having chem to back it up. Especially given my stance on korina I think it would have been a huge red flag were I to push him after the claim

[eth0s]

Could you PM me or link me details for skyrim because I might pre in.

This was my first upick so idk if i should expect about the same thing or not from other upicks

[eth0s]

Could you PM me or link me details for skyrim because I might pre in.

This was my first upick so idk if i should expect about the same thing or not from other upicks

I'd say there are 3 distinct types of upick;

There's a basic one where you just have roles based on your pick. It's a fairly standard theme game, but it's fun because you get to influence the role PM you get with something you think is cool or funny. That bread upick I mentioned is a good example.
There's the type building on that with some kind of setup mechanic to it. This game went there to some extent, but Spring Fever, the first game I played on site, is a very good example.
And there's the lolbalance type where you go totally over the top with mechanics and it's very swingy and mostly about having fun. Here's uPicketyPicketyPick, although naturally the real master of lolbalance, and who I believe introduced minigames as a thing, is Alisae.

This is of course ignoring the difference between specifically themed upicks and anything upicks because it's not really that meaningful a difference in terms of game design.


The skyrim mod upick will be either the first or second type. I'm not doing anything with minigames for at least a good while. They're a lot of effort, and when I'm feeling particularly creative in mafia terms these days I'm writing a heavily flavour based game instead.

oh cool thanks for the info. I need to think about joining another upick for a bit. This one kinda stressed me out (really playing as scum in general does) so I'll think a bit and PM you if I decide to pre in

[eth0s]

I think you’re maybe a little too worried about seeming town as scum Eth0s

Perhaps consider that town are always in positions of doubt and uncertainty, so you can always just bullshit along the lines of, for example re: TL “I honestly believed he was mislynch bait and scum was trying to set him up”

this is true. at least in this game it was. I don't necessarily think it's something I've worried about much in past scumgames (although I think this is only like... my 3rd or 4th one? not sure) but now that you bring it up idk if I've ever thought about it.

The playerlist here scared me which really made me want to bleed town.

Also played a big part in why I tried to dance around TL so much (although I definitely took it to theatrics I genuinely dont know how tf to read him)