Mini Theme 2103 - E Bastard

[Vorkuta]

Guys at least wait until gameplay reps out before finishing the day or something

[Vorkuta]

That one post that he links/refers to about 50 times

[Vorkuta]

Is today literally going to be shos v nom?

[Vorkuta]

i think it's a bit of an exaggerating, especially now.

why the fuck did they kill FF

Huh

Literally the first thing Cyrus after the FF NK was shade you by linking a random game

[Vorkuta]

Is today literally going to be shos v nom?

do you think that's bad?

i think that shos v nom is not T/T

you?

I mean.....
Nom's scumrange is pretty damn infinite so there's I can't use my usual methods to read that slot. I also have ~30 pages of shared scumPT material so nom might be playing around me as well.

Okhams tells me that shos is a really pissed off townie, but I've just finished a game (EMM with nom lol) where a "similar" player turned out to be scum, which forces me to scratch my head more.

Plus with the cultist recruitment what was originally VT vs VT could now be hypoCult vs VT

Can I cop out and do a lurker lynch instead of having to read either of them today?

[Vorkuta]

Ok my game plan is to pray that gameplay gets forced replaced and we get a deadline extension

[Vorkuta]

After 24 hours of an unanswered prod I will search for a replacement

@mod

Extension?

[Vorkuta]

The pissed off nature is not warranted is why I think the slot is scum, unless Chickadee who I felt was REALLY pissed about what I said, so yeah.

I think it's NAI and just something about his personality.
Anti-town for sure.

But it might just be how shos reacts to things.
Also D1 & D2 goodwill

[Vorkuta]

Anything specific?

I mean.... you just like... completely..... went all "imma ignore nom and never reply to anything nom says ever again" so....

@nom- why is shos's outrage "manufactured"?

[Vorkuta]

Chemist yeah

Jigglypuff actually high efforts as town and tries to solve
EMM- viewtopic.php?p=11261751&user_select%5B ... #p11261751
B&W- viewtopic.php?p=11291413&user_select%5B ... #p11291413
Like look at those damn wallposts and readlists in his ISOs

So his "chaotic neutral: rain fire and brimstone down upon us- I revel in this descent of madness!" thing this game really rubs me the wrong way.

[Vorkuta]

The guy didn't pick up on the fact that you should have townread him immediately upon receiving a mod confirmation that he's town

Eh I was 70% sure that he understood my desire not to out him by referencing or showing a rapid change of behavior towards him.
I don't like outing things that aren't mine to out. It feels like a dick move

But still- the """effort""" was there.
Here (in this game) he's all like 'woe is me'

The best way to make sure the powerful use their powers, sometimes, it's best to sacrifice the powerless. Considering all of the amazing powers you guys have, I feel like an empty shell. You all have no use for a powerless side character like me.

And 'burn!!!!!'

just wanted to see the chaos of a Bastard game unfold, nothing more.

[Vorkuta]

jigglypuff prod as well please and thank you

[Vorkuta]

it's a town VI guys

I swear one out of these 2 has to be our (ok mine- I'm the one parading it) wild card

Meanwhile happy scumday Vork

[Vorkuta]

oh damn- I spent a whole year shitposting here?

[Vorkuta]

what you mean by "wildcard"?

Like.... another third party (jester, lynchee/r, survivor, lover seperator, idk) or an extra cultist or literally anything.
Considering the non-bastard quota
Just a role for "insurance" reasons because 5:2:2 feels REALLY icky to me for some reason

would I really play like this as survivor ._.

@cyrus and @jigglypuff
not you

[Vorkuta]

Day 3 will end with a majority lynch or in 0 days, 6 hours, 26 minutes.

gameplay506 is being replaced.[

Deadline freeze?

[Vorkuta]

He was basically anti town every time I played him lol
Being scummy is NAI for him xD

Everyone has their cloudy days and it doesn't help when it's raining cultists

[Vorkuta]

Cyrus can you please use punctuation marks?

[Vorkuta]

1:30
Jigglypuff?

[Vorkuta]

Sorry. That was a mod error. The thread should have been unlocked.

Gave me a heart attack

[Vorkuta]

[REDACTED]

swell

Also Bookkeeping Obligations vol #3

---not-Ded---
shos- VT #812
nomnomnom- VT #790
Iconeum- prolly bastard-PR #823
cyrus62- VT #870
Vorkuta- prolly not-bastard-PR #972

gameplay506

Kelly- ??
Chickadee- VT #946

---Dead----
Chemist1422- VT #1240
PMysterious- Goon #1238
RCEnigma- VT #584
Baezu/FF- VT #765
Korina- ??? (modkilled, but I'm assuming ???) (Bastard role)
Doctor Drew- recruiter #763 (Bastard role)

---Verdict---
4 non-bastard roll flips

[Vorkuta]

Hi Kelly- hows life? have we caught up? do you have something for us?

and thanks for rep'ing 50 pages in.

[Vorkuta]

why bother
we're hunting in the VT pool today- if he has something for us, he'll share.

[Vorkuta]

Pagetop

I'm referring to bastard/non-Bastard.
Except our non-Bastard rolls are claimed VTs lawl.

I'm more interested in your thoughts on cyrus- VI or not?

[Vorkuta]

I don't know about non-bastard roles are VTs.

You... saw my bookkeeping right?


Oh
You want to say that "these guys received a VT roll!PM, but are actually bastard rolls in disguise?"
To that I reply
-too many
-okhams/cynicism/gut says "scum is lying" is more likely than "town doesn't know they're bastard"

[Vorkuta]

I don't spot a lot of references to PM

you know I called him jigglypuff right?

Here's where I actually put in effort and tryharded

Spoiler:

Chemist yeah

Jigglypuff actually high efforts as town and tries to solve
EMM- viewtopic.php?p=11261751&user_select%5B ... #p11261751
B&W- viewtopic.php?p=11291413&user_select%5B ... #p11291413
Like look at those damn wallposts and readlists in his ISOs

So his "chaotic neutral: rain fire and brimstone down upon us- I revel in this descent of madness!" thing this game really rubs me the wrong way.

[Vorkuta]

only accurate if you use an unusual definition of bastard. So I think we should mostly just play this game like normal.

Sure. Great. Everyone is completely free to solve the game in their own way, provided they don't lead town on a wild-goose chase. No objections there.

Except I disagree and will work under the best-case scenario assumptions that: my roll has been bastardized & we have an initial bastard pool of 6 players (based on wording) and 4 nonbastard flips & 5 claimed VTs.

I mean TL;DR feel free to interpret this as "I TR ico due to mechanical reasons on top of gameplay

punintended

reasons" seeing as that's the only practical effect that ^ generates this late in the game.

But I'm coming to this game with the following mentality "which 2 out of our 5 VTs is

intentionally

lying".
Like if a player isn't informed that he was recruited to the cult then..... how do we even play mafia?
I'd like to believe that a wincon exists for us and that's that.

[Vorkuta]

you don't want me to make Icon out his role

I have a TR on him AND I think he's a

not shitty

competent player.

If he has useful results or relevant information for us, he'll let us know.
If he thinks it's more pro-town to keep quiet, then it's his right to do so.

I thought you thought no

Guh.... How do I want to phrase this..... ok
My rollPM does not explicitly have any non-normal modifiers/abilities. How's that?
However I'm fine with making the assumption that the mod lied to me and bastardized it.

Another thing- if I'm non-bastard, then we have 3 liars in our pool of VTs and I don't like the math on that.

[Vorkuta]

Ayt less icon talk, more... nom v shos v cyrus talk probably

[Vorkuta]

chickadee consensus townspewed but I can't wait for your writeup

[Vorkuta]

dude what the hell are you talking about

TL;DR

his verbal diarrhea is: we have 2 votes on shos, so if someone hammers before ico comes back on tuesday the guy(s) quickhammering will have scum!equity, else.... cool

[Vorkuta]

People outside of the game

Wait for real?
Like "not even having signed up" players?

@Kelly
Favor- can we use #post numbers like #0 instead of IRL dates?
Kthnx

[Vorkuta]

This is new information innit?

Dead playerscan visit me in a dream during night

Not particularly new but eh
I buy it- has town utility, and idk how high someone would have to be to hallucinate smth like that.
Especially the visions/dreams

for us if you claimed?

Depends on how useful/honest/forthcoming/wincon-oriented the dead players are

[Vorkuta]

In terms of town points
Nom > shos > Cyrus
(Lynch preference is <- way)

[Vorkuta]

why do you want to lynch cyrus over shos?

Is this.... is this even a question?
How long are we going to give cyrus a free pass for EVERYTHING?

The mutual/consensus "he's our VI"
-doesn't cut it for me personally
-didnt apply to jigglypuff


Also nom vs shos was yesterday, and we postponed it today. Why not delay it until tomorrow?

[Vorkuta]

but you can check

+1 can confirm, scum!nom would never lie down and do nothing esp. now

[Vorkuta]

Idk, town!nom never made it this far in my games

[Vorkuta]

>doubting Ico's claim

The amount of effort necessary to hallucinate this shit up heavily suggests that... you know... he's not lying

[Vorkuta]

>doubting Ico's claim

The amount of effort necessary to hallucinate this shit up heavily suggests that... you know... he's not lying

[Vorkuta]

I hate not being in lynchpools because my read quality suffers as a result.
There's also no one I'm comfortable sheeping.

[Vorkuta]

Uhhhh

Has anyone 180'd completely in terms of tone from D1?

[Vorkuta]

Disappeared after she townspewed with her 'rolled VT 18 times'
I'm too lazy to quote myself but I'll be butthurt if it's her scumplay.

[Vorkuta]

I'm not even sure it existed after D1 now that I think about it.
IIRC, I thought town!chickadee would be more.... helpful/solvey/active/controlling/hunting wtv, but now I feel like this is honest-demoralized-town chickadee

Plus it was probably slightly kneejerky as well

[Vorkuta]

"thoughts"

Also @Cyrus
Why 3?

[Vorkuta]

Ico- so help me god, but he's scumclaiming.

Also I'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't care how much you vouch for ico, I don't know either of you two well enough to agree.
If we're going to lose because of this, I'd rather go on my own terms and feel bad about it later.
VOTE: Cyrus

[Vorkuta]

Rip game

i neverd once scum clime if i would have i would have come out and said it.

fucking hell ico is too adorable UNVOTE:

[Vorkuta]

Scum!nom would be putting up quite a fight and not take it lying down..... like this

My invaluable two cents

[Vorkuta]

my meta

Food for thought- What makes that point less credible than your defense of cyrus (which is.... meta)

Is it the 'self' part of self-meta?
Because I can vouch for nom if that's the case (not as strongly as you are vouching for cyrus, but still)

[Vorkuta]

I think his shtick is "too scummy to be scum".
Idk maybe you have a better understanding of his unformatted verbal diarrhea, but I think he's been shotgunning and texas sharpshooting the entire time.
I think throughout the course of the entire game (in his >250 posts) he's raised up LITERALLY EVERY POSSIBLE VARIANT of a scum/cult team and wants to take credit for everything.

Like this is my "cyrus level post"- (Obligatory: not meant to be offensive/insulting/demeaning, just my artistic interpretation )

"hey guys I think it could be ico, but if its not ico, it is shos, but shos and nom dont like each other and have been 1v1ing since d1 so its nom but that leaves chickadee because i didnt mention chickadee and chickadee has been quiet and not involved in the drama so it could be chickadee and then it could be chickadee and ico and i really think that its not both shos and nom together but it could be shos and nom together but ive been saying its ico since day 1 so maybe its 1 of ico and shos or ico and nom togther but ico has a role so i dont know i really dont but this is lylo so we need to vote scum otherwise we lose the game because if less than 3 people vote for scum then we lose so everyone who isnt voting scum is actually scum and nom isnt voting for shos so nom is scum because i think shos is scum and ive been saying that since day 1 and ive said it in day 2 that is ico and chickadee"

I'm sorry, but I can't townread this.
I just can't.
There's no 'good faith', he flipflops extremely and inconsistently, his reads are 80% OMGUS (watch him shade me for ^) and cyrus just has the archetype of someone who's in the game to stir up shit and chaos instead of actually solving.
Maybe you interpret his posts differently, but I don't.

His goal isn't to "solve", but to take credit/be involved in literally everything and trade the townpoints he'd get from that into a ticket to Lylo while fearmongering and pressuring us to move things forward at HIS pace which forces us to slip up and make hasty/rushed decisions.
ALSO- the self-voting BS. ALSO- more things

[Vorkuta]

hmm i did say i thought pm was town as well untill i got around to rereading them

you're right- this is the only "vaguely" related post to taking credit but again
It's the shotgunning. It's the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks"
I think it's 90% intentional disruption.
Hell- maybe it's because I don't properly understand his shos case (because every other post is about.... something else).

No ok- I've decided on my chosen wording.
Cyrus is half-assing 5 scum-team-variants instead of whole-assing 1 or 2.

@Cyrus
Can you do us a HUGE favor (hopefully before the deadline )
And give us a nice and properly formatted "be-all-and-end-all, gun-to-head" and EXPLICITLY FORMATED in the following way

{conf!town players}
{solid town players}
{town lean players}
{null players}
{scum lean players}
{solid scum players}
{

shos

conf!scum players}

[Vorkuta]

I swear, every time I read his ISO (and depending on which way I read his ISO), I have a new impression on what I think his reads on *insert random player here* are

[Vorkuta]

unvote until he delivers

[Vorkuta]

nvm can't find a VC thought he was in lolhammer territory

[Vorkuta]

If you were town you could at least have brought up the fact that your lynch is wrong no matter wha

Or as Cyrus himself so eloquently puts it

we both know my lynch would mean town loses.

hey as i said im up for loseing if it proves im right

[Vorkuta]

I read that as tempted to vote nom as a result of the dodgy post 1544

[Vorkuta]

Fuck

This is plurality
We could end up with a 50/50

[Vorkuta]

you really don't want to bank your game on a dice roll.

Wait let me think about whether my fragile ego would rather take an "RNG" loss or a "being

bad

wrong" loss and get back to you on that

[Vorkuta]

Inb4 chick is scum coasting

I told ya about chick bros

Depressed town

[Vorkuta]

So we already have... 3 people expressing support for a chickadee wagon at the beginning of day tomorrow.
That's just great

[Vorkuta]

how he did not think he was hammering!

Ty for bringing this to my attention.
Cyrus has been keeping his pulse on the game the most.
I'm pretty sure he did this intentionally while trying to play it off as an accident.

(of course I'm biased and this fits in perfectly with my story, but still)

[Vorkuta]

[REDACTED]

and another redaction...

So.... where are we?
4:1 with one more cultist?
3:1:1? with 3 scum to start the game off with?

[Vorkuta]

its very intesing why would nom only vote vork day 1?

We had quite a serious scum game together recently so I'm guessing that might've been nom's attempt at pocketing me or playing around me.
It was very uncharacteristic of scum!nom

[Vorkuta]

Vork's amazing Bookkeeping vol #4

---not-Ded---
shos- VT #812
cyrus62- VT #870
Vorkuta- prolly not-bastard-PR #972
Kelly- VT #1247
Chickadee- VT turned cultist #1653

---Dead----
Iconeum- medium #1610
nomnomnom- Goon #1609
Chemist1422- VT #1240
PMysterious- Goon #1238
RCEnigma- VT #584
Baezu/FF- VT #765
Korina- ??? (modkilled, but I'm assuming ???) (Bastard role)
Doctor Drew- recruiter #763 (Bastard role)

---Verdict---
5/7 Non-Bastard Roles used up
(nom, Chemist, Jiggly, RCE, FF)

[Vorkuta]

So why do we have a lying townie?

[Vorkuta]

aren't you missing about 4

Best case scenario I'm missing 2?
I'm assuming 3:1:1- the scum ok fine, their wincon is to lie.
That leaves 1 more from the (3) pool

Walk me through the math please

[Vorkuta]

Fuck I've dreaded this
anyway

Disloyal Redirector

you can imagine how many times the mod told me "can't answer that" in response to all my questions

TL;DW (wiki)
I take someone's targetted night action (i.e- doctor shot on X, or vig-shot on Y) and REDIRECT ( ) it on someone else.
It has literally 1 "useful" usage in this setup and the odds of that happening are.... 0.

N1- Drew -> Cyrus (Drew was town *sadface*)
N2- Jigglypuff -> Cyrus (jigglypuff didn't do the NK *sadface*)
N3- Cyrus -> Ico (idk)
N4- Shos -> Cyrus

[Vorkuta]

Literally the only usecases

1- Redirect an NK to... someone else. This is for WIFOM (scum now panicks about a protective + vig) while giving me a hard guilty
2- Redirect the NK to partner!scum. Odds of this happening are very high
3- Redirect cult recruitment (error, cannot do)
4- uh..... which one of you bastards is lying and has an active ability that I could've messed with?

[Vorkuta]

my gamesolving ability skills are inversely proportional to how townread I am so you're better off talking to a coin but I'll oblige as best I can

-We're either in 3:1:1 or 4:1. "all threats" wincon means that we can't win w/ cult alive, so either way we get knocked down to 2:1 Lylo or 4:0 win gaem.
-3 scum with a cult game with """0""" town power feels WAY TOO BROKEN. Like someone else try and justify this for me. inb4 korina had something really spicy for us but... *tableflips*
-This leaves me unable to account for the ico kill. Maybe mod shenanigans. Maybe idk nom had a random venge component that was redacted.

And ofc again- bastard quota. "best case scenario" (3:1:1), we still have a townie who's dishonest, and I'm already making quite liberal assumptions (mod wording = 6, my roll "is" bastard (which idk why it should be), and all that.

Like you see why I'm in a rut. A cult lynch is the "simplest explanation" and optimal play on paper, but something doesn't sit right with me and that leaves a few unanswered questions.

@ALL Y'ALL.
are you really VTs? is there NOTHING ELSE AT ALL in your roll PMs?

[Vorkuta]

OK- let's forget about the "VT quota" and work "backwards"
Who are our bastard rolls?

Drew, Korina, Ico. That's just 3/7
shos suggested that scum has spice: fine= + nom & jigglypuff = 5/7.
Fine. I can be "bastard" = 6/7.

Who are we still missing?
The remaining "mafia" member?
Or do we have a townie who gifts random vig shots to people (you can tell how far I'm willing to reach at this point lawl) and you guys have kept quiet?

Spoiler:

Vork's amazing Bookkeeping vol #4

---not-Ded---
shos- VT #812
cyrus62- VT #870
Vorkuta- prolly not-bastard-PR #972
Kelly- VT #1247
Chickadee- VT turned cultist #1653

---Dead----
Iconeum- medium #1610
nomnomnom- Goon #1609
Chemist1422- VT #1240
PMysterious- Goon #1238
RCEnigma- VT #584
Baezu/FF- VT #765
Korina- ??? (modkilled, but I'm assuming ???) (Bastard role)
Doctor Drew- recruiter #763 (Bastard role)

---Verdict---
5/7 Non-Bastard Roles used up
(nom, Chemist, Jiggly, RCE, FF)

[Vorkuta]

chick is cult do the math

Chickadee was originally VT: non-bastard.
Otherwise I'd be less unhappy.

day vote counts

He has a point
Can someone do a VCA?

[Vorkuta]

Do you choose the TARGET and chage it, or the TARGETTER? As in, X shoots Y. you redirect to Z. You chose X and Z, or Y and Z?

Night action- X inappropriately violates Y
Vork's action- redirect X (idgaf who Y is) to Z

So X & Z

Because N1 and N2 are sorta contradictive

I'm

disloyal

meaning my action on Drew -> Cyrus didn't go through.
I thought I'd prevent cult cancer from spreading.
*speculation*
If he was a cultist (cult aligned) recruiter, then everything would be hunky dory and I'd be able to "personally build" the cult.
Which is why I thought "might be bastardized".
That sounds Bastard to me, even thought I can't explicitly find a wiki entry confirming/denying such info.

Jig didn't do the NK - sadface - so if he did, he'd be recirected, regardless of who he targets?

Yes. I wanted jigglypuff to ""NK"" Cyrus (instead of FF, who he actually targetted) during N2.

[Vorkuta]

Vork is that wrong? It seems like that clears Shos.

that claim clears me indeed.

Uhh....

If shos scum and shot somebody, Cyrus would be dead
If shos cult, (and had a night action), Cyrus would be inappropriately touched in some way.
If shos town, with black magicry (#1677), then I did nothing.

But mod could be lying/lazy/trolling/following-his-own-rules so taking it as a hard clear irks me.

[Vorkuta]

You sometimes don't work?

yes

*ahem*
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Disloyal

I fail if I target (LAMIST) my own alignment.

Which is town. Just in case anyone missed that

I only do useful stuff if I target scum/cult.

Obviously I'm not told whether I failed because of the modifier or because of... the lack of redirect-able night actions.

[Vorkuta]

Shit
I can't even get hard guilties/clears.

i.e:
Scum A NKs person B
Vork: uses black magic powers to REDIRECT person C to person B.

Person B dies
Vork: mwahahaha I have caught C!

[Vorkuta]

Anyway- TL;DR
D5- Lynch cult, (3:1)
N5- random NK (doesn't even have to be me because I'm useless and wont provide insight)
D6- 2:1 Lylo.

This seems good ON PAPER.
But bastard quota, 3 scum w/ cult is BS, ico NK unaccounted for, etc.

However if it's town consensus then I'll hammer if need be.

[Vorkuta]

You would tell us that today.

Up to you guys how you want to play this.
Which ""3"" has the best chance in Lylo?

[Vorkuta]

This is a high effort post.

What do I do again?

[Vorkuta]

Vork do you want to discuss or can you agree to submit Kelly -> Cyrus?

Nah- I've reasoned it out on my own as well.
The math checks out I think

I will attempt to redirect Kelly to Cyrus this night

[Vorkuta]

Cyrus
Are you a jester or something?
Vengeful?

Like come on

[Vorkuta]

I will attempt to redirect Kelly to Cyrus this night

Hammer
VOTE: chickadee

[Vorkuta]

vote: Chickadee

Just in case someone missed it

[Vorkuta]

@vork dose the role tell when you fail to redirect?

No
The mod sends me no message afterwards.
Idk if I fail because of
-the disloyal modifier
-I didn't target anyone doing anything interesting

if we all agree to speed up the night action

Will do

[Vorkuta]

I'm uh....
not going to brag about this win I suppose

[Vorkuta]

@modperson

-Is there a particular reason you wouldnt share our wincon with us?
-I couldn't find drew's recruitment criteria? Random? Any restrictions?

[Vorkuta]

shoot
that damning?

ouch