Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Aaron - 364 what convinced you to vote Kerset other than rb asking you to?

Pretty much wanted to move off of nom for the time being and onto someone else + the reasons I laid out in 295.

I linked to the wrong fucking post lmao

Meant to link to 356

You weren't on nom there though. You were on Skitter. And at 484, you said you were still scumreading her but not enough to push.

So you're still scumreading Skitt at 484, but it was Skitt that caused you to rethink your rb read and you voted rb at Skitt'direction after earlier voting Kerset at Skitt's direction. Who are you town reading and why? You said you wanted to move off of nom, but it was Skitt, so why did you want to move off of Skitt given that as late as 484, you were still scumreading her?

[PMysterious]

Just here to let everyone know I'm still here. I'll be back to post some more in a bit.

[Sirfetchd]

A few things:

- I used to think I was really good at reading newbies and then I increased my sample size and it started to even out.
- It looks like there may be some confirmation bias happening on kerset. A newbie under early vocal pressure is going to act differently to one not under that sort of pressure. That doesn't mean Kerset is town but I'm not really buying the wagon just yet. The post skit pointed out read as very town to me too.

I will post later, was skimming on my way to work and wanted to get both those points out.

[Sirfetchd]

@Billy: rb came in and didn't take everything at face value, which are much more solid reads than otherwise. I don't have to agree with all the reads to think their reading is townie.

[Luca Blight]

Kerset wasn’t under any pressure at all until after rb’s entrance, to be fair.

[nomnomnom]

Kerset wasn’t under any pressure at all until after rb’s entrance, to be fair.

I agree, the basis for my scumread is entirely Kerset's play even before rb voted there. I think the responses are scummy but if you think it's a byproduct of pressure then just stick to the more important part.

[rb]

wooper - I don't take him serious. I just hope that vigilante won't missshot because of his recklessness.

best scumclaim

[rb]

A few things:

- I used to think I was really good at reading newbies and then I increased my sample size and it started to even out.
- It looks like there may be some confirmation bias happening on kerset. A newbie under early vocal pressure is going to act differently to one not under that sort of pressure. That doesn't mean Kerset is town but I'm not really buying the wagon just yet. The post skit pointed out read as very town to me too.

I will post later, was skimming on my way to work and wanted to get both those points out.

kerset wasn't under pressure prior to me entering, where their play is extremely different to their previous two town games (not a thing I was aware of until I checked) and they were already playing like scum

after i pressured them, they responded by OMGUS voting me and that's about it

who do you think is scum, if not kerset?

[skitter30]

The statement on top of that can be read as an attempt to discredit me: on top of playing in my own set of established rule (with my theory as bogus as it might be), they're trying to *logically* prove that I don't apply the same standards to them as opposed to others, which is a very efficient discrediting tactic if you're trying to show someone is biased. So I am not sure this comes from town.

idk

i don't think this is the tack newbscum takes here. i think they focus more on the wagon and try to like ~not be~ wagoned

he doesn't actually seem to care about being wagoned that much, more about understanding the logic that's being used against him

[skitter30]

I'm still honestly confused by your Billy scumread

pedit: I have doubts on Skitter scum, I have empirical evidence that she tends to make weird reads based on a few factors

it's a read that's getting a little stale i think

but i dont' like how he basically went from voting suji for his bad reaction to my initial vote on him and then went to ~voting me for making that vote ~

it looks like he reread the game and forgot what his original position was, and made up a new one.

like i don't know how he gets to the exact opposite conclusion there when he reads the same posts a couple of different times

[rb]

so offer an alternative place to vote

this game is driving me fucking nuts tbh, despite the fact that my preferred lynch is the leading wagon.

because apparently not a single town player is interested in pushing what they think is scum, but instead in debating the finer points of why people scumread kerset

i dont think i can be fucked playing this game much

[skitter30]

verified town!kerset: has thoughts, pushes in the direction of those thoughts, calls people out when they think they are being poor town members and then PUTS THEIR VOTE ON THEM

During both of my D1 i placed vote exactly 3 times. One on the beginning, second midway and third near the end of the day. You lie if you find any difference here.

i'm going to check out his towngame when i finish catching up

[rb]

have fun being shit, see you on later days maybe if i'm not dead

[skitter30]

thanks, i appreciate that

[nomnomnom]

he doesn't actually seem to care about being wagoned that much, more about understanding the logic that's being used against him

And again that's something guilty people do, there are studies about how people that know they are in the wrong or did something bad will feign ignorance or not directly challenge subtler accusations against them. The subtle accusation that I made against Kerset (the fact that they shade people which is inherently a scummy tactic) was never challenged not even once. I'm inclined to believe that this is because Kerset is scum.

If someone was town and innocent you'd be sure that Kerset would be confused as hell with my whacky theories and say something like "what the hell are you on about???" especially as a new player but that did not happen. This is textbook guilty behavior.

[skitter30]

I don’t think I was ever close to being lynched in that game, inno or not.

yeah you're right, sorry, i was in a rush and that became shorthand for 'got taken out of the lynchpool because of the fact i fake-inno'd him', which is more accurate

[skitter30]

And again that's something guilty people do, there are studies about how people that know they are in the wrong or did something bad will feign ignorance or not directly challenge subtler accusations against them. The subtle accusation that I made against Kerset (the fact that they shade people which is inherently a scummy tactic) was never challenged not even once. I'm inclined to believe that this is because Kerset is scum.

If someone was town and innocent you'd be sure that Kerset would be confused as hell with my whacky theories and say something like "what the hell are you on about???" especially as a new player but that did not happen. This is textbook guilty behavior.

idk
but this isn't how i'm reading the situation
and maybe i'm doing a bad job putting it in words but like he isn't defensive like ~at all~. he doesn't really react to the wagon, or question the votes, or like start flailing
he just seems interested in getting his questions answered, and like that's the main thing he cares about

also i'm not sure how often i've seen scum behave in the model you've described.

like his current tactic/mode of playing is getting bad responses, he's getting wagoned. that isn't altering how he's playing or how he's interacting with the thread at all. he's still approaching it the exact same way ... just trying to get his questions answered and to understand the logic that's being thrown about. i feel like scum does ~something~ in response here, and he isn't

also i kinda have a theory but i'm not sure it's really like ~right~ to say it so i prob won't

[skitter30]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

So now you're backtracking? How did you come to this conclusion?

yeah that was the quote that confused me too

[skitter30]

I dont like the rb wagon right now. My read came around on that. Aaron isnt a bad vote at the moment, but I think Kerset is the best chance for scum at the moment.

a) what do u think of the fact that i was voting rb
b) i feel like you're positioning yourself to get onto aaron if that wagon ever happens, which i find to be a convenient read to have given that several other people have stated scumreads on aaron

[skitter30]

who is the scummiest player in the game then?

Probably aaron or bilky

I havent read any of kerset's previous games

I feel like you've been shading me a bit but haven't actually pushed me or even voted for me.

i don't really think i've been shading you

a) you feel ~very~ different to the last game we played
b) i'm not sure what the right words are exactly, but you're like reacting to the wrong things? the reasons for your early votes feel kinda fabricated.

[skitter30]

I might be misremembering but I have the impression in my head that

skitter was originally defending Kerset because of bad reasoning

used against them but at some point switched to a bona fide townread when the pressure ramped up. If it really did happen that way, it's a whiteknighting pattern.

well more that i didn't really get the reasoning against him

[skitter30]

I think that I will have better read on him during D2 (either here or in dead chat).

do u think ur getting lynched today?

[AaronFrost]

@Aaron - 364 what convinced you to vote Kerset other than rb asking you to?

Pretty much wanted to move off of nom for the time being and onto someone else + the reasons I laid out in 295.

I linked to the wrong fucking post lmao

Meant to link to 356

You weren't on nom there though. You were on Skitter. And at 484, you said you were still scumreading her but not enough to push.

So you're still scumreading Skitt at 484, but it was Skitt that caused you to rethink your rb read and you voted rb at Skitt'direction after earlier voting Kerset at Skitt's direction. Who are you town reading and why? You said you wanted to move off of nom, but it was Skitt, so why did you want to move off of Skitt given that as late as 484, you were still scumreading her?

Fuck why did I forget that I voted for skitter? I swear university has fried my brain this semester.

skitter didn't cause me to rethink anything. I didn't like rb's entrance at first either and I never once mentioned that I was townreading them. I moved off of skitter because I felt Kerset was a better wagon at that point.

See 672 for who I'm townreading.

[AaronFrost]

who is the scummiest player in the game then?

Probably aaron or bilky

I havent read any of kerset's previous games

I feel like you've been shading me a bit but haven't actually pushed me or even voted for me.

i don't really think i've been shading you

a) you feel ~very~ different to the last game we played
b) i'm not sure what the right words are exactly, but you're like reacting to the wrong things? the reasons for your early votes feel kinda fabricated.

a) Fair criticism. I am playing differently than I did in 2099.

b) Nothing fabricated here, but what kinds of things do you think I should be reacting to?

[AaronFrost]

@Billy

I'd like an answer for this

Aaron's 477 feels like a way to try and keep the discussion on Kerset and rb and off of him. I dont know that scum would be so transparent about this, but it pinged me. Liking S_S even more when hes talking about the player list rather than theory and mechanics though.

So you think town!Aaron would just allow himself to get wagoned while not voicing my opinions on players I find scummy?