Undertale Semi-Open 1.1 - Snowdin Snowdown

[Elements]

We identify four townies and win. Townhunting is better than scumhunting and this playerlist is good for application

Been there, done that, won as scum. Let's move on and make it hard for the scum to win.

[Elements]

I recon 2:2 or 3:1. (Spare:kill)

[Elements]

Then we get some semi checking stuff going on when we get to the core.

[Elements]

We identify four townies and win. Townhunting is better than scumhunting and this playerlist is good for application

Been there, done that, won as scum. Let's move on and make it hard for the scum to win.

This doesn't sound towny tonally

I doubt my play style will be similar to last time.

[Elements]

I recon 2:2 or 3:1. (Spare:kill)

I recon we play this by ear and see where our strongest reads lie

That's what we did last time.
HURT: chennis

[Elements]

I recon 2:2 or 3:1. (Spare:kill)

I recon we play this by ear and see where our strongest reads lie

Isn't that just how one plays mafia?

[Elements]

We identify four townies and win. Townhunting is better than scumhunting and this playerlist is good for application

Been there, done that, won as scum. Let's move on and make it hard for the scum to win.

This doesn't sound towny tonally

I doubt my play style will be similar to last time.

I doubt ur town

Is this based on my entrance so far?

[Elements]

I recon 2:2 or 3:1. (Spare:kill)

I recon we play this by ear and see where our strongest reads lie

Isn't that just how one plays mafia?

What if I told you we lost last time because we played circlejerk and didnt play mafia until it was too late

What if I told you it was because of my incredible scum plays?

[Elements]

We identify four townies and win. Townhunting is better than scumhunting and this playerlist is good for application

Been there, done that, won as scum. Let's move on and make it hard for the scum to win.

This doesn't sound towny tonally

I doubt my play style will be similar to last time.

I doubt ur town

Is this based on my entrance so far?

Yea it really is

Fair, I'm feeling particularly volatile today.

[Elements]

Let’s not

HURT: Elements

Last game you entered with a heal not a hurt. Coincidence? I think not.
HURT: oversoul

[Elements]

We identify four townies and win. Townhunting is better than scumhunting and this playerlist is good for application

Been there, done that, won as scum. Let's move on and make it hard for the scum to win.

Making it hard to win for scum is what im trying to do.

The biggest problem with sparing everyone is that we only get night kill flips so can't analyse voting as easily. If we do get a scum caught up in the spares we go to lylo with one confirmed town. Purely statistically 1/3 town win is worse odds than 2/3 scum win.

[Elements]

Im 80 percent sure u did that just to get off of me elements.

HURT: chennis
fight me

[Elements]

I dont care about statistics im confident we can get four townies spared

So was everyone last game.

[Elements]

That was not a towny reaction Elements

as I said, I'm feeling volatile

[Elements]

Let’s not

HURT: Elements

Last game you entered with a heal not a hurt. Coincidence? I think not.
HURT: oversoul

Its almost as if there’s a reason for the difference.

What's the reason?

[Elements]

like im already feeling you and chennis are town
thats three already

Why are you feeling I'm town?
normally when I play this way I'm universally scum read

[Elements]

Let’s not

HURT: Elements

Last game you entered with a heal not a hurt. Coincidence? I think not.
HURT: oversoul

Its almost as if there’s a reason for the difference.

What's the reason?

U feel like ur asking questions to ask questions just like last game.

What about my play so far feels similar to last time?

[Elements]

HURT: Elements
HURT: Elements
HURT: Elements

rude

[Elements]

HEAL: oversoul

[Elements]

I don't understand how apparently eveyone except me can be obvtown. My scum game is so obvious to see. I'm so much more passive and less erratic.

[Elements]

It lloks like im the reason for tips 6 and 7

I see tip 6 but not tip 7

[Elements]

Ur scum tho!

no u

[Elements]

I strongly advocated for delayed PR spare last game.

Ah right.

[Elements]

I don't understand how apparently eveyone except me can be obvtown. My scum game is so obvious to see. I'm so much more passive and less erratic.

It’s ok. Becoming obvtown is the only thing I can do. I can’t play scum, I can’t scumhunt, but I can obvtown

can you obvtown as scum?

[Elements]

I want to try not pacifist

[Elements]

sounds like you did it last game and it backfired?

Last game most people were of the same opinion as you, but we mostly went off chennis' day 1 reads for the whole game.

[Elements]

I think youre echoing me.

I think youre echoing me.

[Elements]

now you have players like nacho and mastina here tho.

That changes things how exactly?

[Elements]

Got ya

[Elements]

Chennis was very much a town leader last game.

[Elements]

so you think the mixed route is better? what about the genocide one

Genocide is just a vanilla game. With neutral we get checks of sorts.

[Elements]

so you think the mixed route is better? what about the genocide one

The only way mixed is worth doing is 1-3/3-1. 2-2 is town loss automatically if there’s a scum I’m pretty sure. That’s what I remember from thinking about it last game

But I don’t think Neutral is the way to go

We lose 2:2 if we don't lynch scum.
So you think genocide route then.

[Elements]

so far nymph and gingie are on my radar for awkward entrances

Elements is at the top of my list

Why is this though?

[Elements]

I think I've calmed down now if anyone wants to have a reasonable discussion.

[Elements]

Post 45 really

I'm not seeing how that's especially scummy

[Elements]

I haven't really thought of what path to take because really none of them seems that bad. (To be fair I haven't thought of it in detail) The neutral ending uses both mechs even though the geno ending prob seems the best. I do think we should fight someone day one though so that makes it so we're doing the neutral route. Why can't we do 2-2 is there a major dif to 3-1 vs 2-2

If we do 2:2 with a scum spare and 2 town lynches we auto lose.
Whoever came up with the spare people we're not sure of the alignment: If we spare both scum we immediately lose.

[Elements]

I think someone asked me a question at one point. Could they repeat it plz.

[Elements]

I tr Wisdom and Xayah

----

I think someone asked me a question at one point. Could they repeat it plz.

Well, what do you have to say about this:

He asked pointless and easy questions

He is asking pointless and easy questions

He doesnt do that as town

I'm much more passive as scum.
Chennis has only seen my first and only scum game so meta can't be established.
I don't think Chennis has been in any of my higher activity town games.

[Elements]

HEAL: wisdom

[Elements]

No dude its objectively scummy as well so

I'm not going to ignore it this time

Acting scummy does not make someone scum.
Do you not think that if I was scum again, playing with a plethora of people who played my last scum game, that I wouldn't change my play style? Especially given that the main thing people said was scummy about me was my questions.
Do you honestly think that lowly of me?

[Elements]

I think Chennis is scum from how badly he's reading me

[Elements]

this is kinda funny elements

Thank you. I aim to amuse.

[Elements]

I think Chennis is scum from how badly he's reading me

Isn’t this a reason to tr him? Idk chem to me isn’t the first person that comes to mind for town hunter expert or big ballsy scum. Do you think he should be able to read you 100% of the time? If you think he should be able to read you correctly why does scum him push you? He can just tr you and be done with it. Is he making s big move to you or?

This is pretty basic thinking and I don’t like how you’re handling this

Chennis is pushing me as scum because I've been asking a lot of questions and saying that I'm therefore playing similarly to the last game where I was scum. If he was actually comparing the games he notice the massive difference of tone and post style between the two game. To me chennis is scum jumping on the opportunity for a potential easy mislynch by using only the half of the information that helps his case.

[Elements]

do it

[Elements]

I mean the energy of the crowd is that we're all waiting on mastina and Nacho to post

at least that is what it feels like


So go off

aka
do it

[Elements]

That was not a towny reaction Elements

as I said, I'm feeling volatile

@Elements:
You later said that you thought that the way that Chennis was pushing you was scummy because he should recognize that you are town, but here it doesn't read like that's the case. When did it shift from "meh" to "ok he's scum he should be townreading me by now"?

Both me and chennis are playing differently to last game. Last game channis started out as a loose flying tentacle trying to grasp onto the ideal way for town to win shooting out stream of thought style posts left right and centre. The flying tentacle bit not being present here is perfectly excusable seeing as he has prior experience with this set up. This time his posts don't seem very stream of conciousy. They seem more calculated especially the constant tunnelling on me.

Its like a kid in front of a pile of sweets:
Town chennis last game - "That one looks good, that one looks good, ooh! that one's rlly good! Maybe avoid that one, looks nasty."
Chennis this game: "Stay away from that one. I know you won't like it. These ones are all meh. Those two are good. Avoid the first one I mentioned."
The first scenario the child is recommending sweets to their friends. The second scenario the child is forcefully telling their friends to stay away from one type of sweet because they want more of it.

TL;DR
Chennis was a wibbly wobbly blob of consciousness last game and is a scheming calculated agenda pusher this game.

[Elements]

Sorry ur scumplay isnt the same it was last time elementals

Then proceeds to say I'm scum because my play is similar to last game.

U feel like ur asking questions to ask questions just like last game.

He asked pointless and easy questions

He is asking pointless and easy questions

He doesnt do that as town

undertale v 1.0 is the only completed game we've recently been together in.

for the sake of staying very far on the right side of the rules that's all ill say.

[Elements]

dont see how lynch is better

flip
but not right now

[Elements]

I think spare, spare, kill. If we kill scum we lynch again if we kill town we spare

[Elements]

I've never been in a game where the day 1 lynch isn't a town. So lynching this early and flipping a town basically forces us into 3:1. If we spare two first we have a better read on everyone when we get do a lynch.

[Elements]

Has anyone got a record of higher than 10% of lynching non town day 1?

[Elements]

sparing rakan is prolly in scums gameplan

Uh, explain?

I believe it's called flailing

[Elements]

Wisdom don't want to be slung into the spared PT
HEAL: rakan

[Elements]

Selfishly I want to keep Rakan here for obvious reason. But I get sparing him.
You know what's better though? Lynching.

Jokes on you I wanted to ego this anyway

I thought you were quoting yourself. Yours and Maria's pps are too similar

[Elements]

Why does chennis still have three votes to spare him?

[Elements]

also rakan heal yourself

[Elements]

Did everyone decide this game had no rvs and not tell me?

[Elements]

Do you mean to say that you thought rakan healing was rvs or..?

Not in the slightest.
Idk how to phase it. Chem doesn't like my oversoul interactions I feel like he's scum reading me because he needs someone to scum read.

[Elements]

Did everyone decide this game had no rvs and not tell me?

Ignore this, doesn't make sense in my head any more

[Elements]

Did everyone decide this game had no rvs and not tell me?

why are people still tring this?

Because said slot is town

[Elements]

HEAL: chemist

[Elements]

Pedit: hmmm

hmmm

[Elements]

HEAL: Xayah
Alright, since that happened I'm gonna put myself into a PT with Rakan easiest way to solve both slots and get some protective solving done.

I don't know if I like you enough yet.
I'f prefer chemist

[Elements]

Fair, I don't think anyone really 'likes me' right now. Why? I would hurt chemist right now if I had to make a choice.

Don't see him making the night kill

[Elements]

Fair, I don't think anyone really 'likes me' right now. Why? I would hurt chemist right now if I had to make a choice.

Don't see him making the night kill

Really? I had the other reaction.

why do you think he would kill chenn?

[Elements]

[fight]mastina[/fight]

[Elements]

HURT: mastina

[Elements]

Why do all my games have night owls

time zones?

[Elements]

Elements what’s your read on Chemist?

I'm going with likely town.
I don't see scum!chem seeing the TvT of me and chennis and thinking "I'll kill one of them. That seems good". He'd more likely let us continue at each others throats.

[Elements]

That actually gives me an idea

A secret idea or a sharing one?

[Elements]

I want chemist to come post

[Elements]

I want chemist to come post

Yo

I really really don’t want mastina killed after that series of posts but I do want to see where she’s at on other people

That series of posts is why I want mastina killed

[Elements]

I want chemist to come post

Yo

I really really don’t want mastina killed after that series of posts but I do want to see where she’s at on other people

That series of posts is why I want mastina killed

Why though

This goes past "scum berating town for messing up" to "insanely salty town" because of the reaction toward Ginngie

Anger is the most energy intense emotion an slips into disappointment quickly. The town of mastina's posts for an hour and a half are nothing but unadulterated rage. There's no emotional progression to frustration or disappointment. Looks like scum trying to act as enraged town by keeping the rage consistent.
TL:DR - The rage is too consistent for too long

[Elements]

reasons

mastina chart

Stoopid reasons

[Elements]

HURT: xayah
HEAL: pops

[Elements]

Wait that's wrong
HURT: gingie
627 is way tmi

[Elements]

Elements can you make a list like the one I asked Rakan to make please

Because you’re acting somewhat chaotic and I have no idea where your head is at

I do feel like I'm reading this game entirely wrong, but here you go:

Town

Wisdom
Elements
Chemist
Oversoul
nymph
nacho
mastina
xayah
Gingie

Scum

[Elements]

I don't know gingie
HURT: pops

[Elements]

I'm not liking widoms obsession with the pacifist route. I think we've discussed the last game enough for everyone to be a bit dubious of it.

[Elements]

I wasn't in the last game so i don't particularly care about it

your current attitude was the general attitude. Then it turned out a scum was spared and became lylo which town lost.

[Elements]

Okay, do you think Gin or Rakan are scum?

I'm thinking wisdom/raken could be the team.

[Elements]

yet i was at the top of your list a few posts ago

a few posts and reassesment can change things.

[Elements]

I want elements to explain his transitions of his reads and citing evidence

yeah lets spare rakan

spare rakan cmon. Just 3 days left.

Otherwise ill switch to chennis.

Pushing for the Rakan spare with three days to go and acting like there's no time.

Constantly saying he doesn't want to be spared. The first time, fine you want to contribute, the next however many times combined with "i want pacifist" trying hard to be townread and become the de facto 5th spare to win scum the game.

[Elements]

Still looks to me like you just dont want people to townread me.

well yea, i think your scum

[Elements]

*you're

[Elements]

Constantly saying he doesn't want to be spared. The first time, fine you want to contribute, the next however many times combined with "i want pacifist" trying hard to be townread and become the de facto 5th spare to win scum the game.

There’s only a 5th spare if we are wrong on the first 4. Is this a condemnation of Rakan or of this town?

This is going off my rakan/wisdom theory

[Elements]

The slot, and deepest apologizes to chenn, is not fucking town.

Lynch me and find out then.
When rakan and wisdom are scum don't say I didn't warn you

[Elements]

Unless you start producing town content I’m content with calling your bluff.

Cuz seriously, you just told one of your top scum read they’ll be sorry if they lynch you

ive moved on from you to wisdom/rakan

[Elements]

For which you gave no literal reason

i said i think wisdom pushed through the rakan spare and wants to be the fifth spare at the end game

[Elements]

but if you're lynching me tomorrow that's fine coz it means that can't happen

[Elements]

so we spare not wisdom today, lynch me tomorrow, spare the PR if alive or not wisdom day 4 then take to night kills and see that I was right and lynch rakan and wisdom. gg.

[Elements]

HEAL: gingie

[Elements]

yep

[Elements]

My problem is that both Gingie AND Rakan were heavily softing PR.

It's Rakan and wisdom so that would be rakan setting up a pr cc maybe?

[Elements]

VOTE: wisdom

[Elements]

HURT: wisdom

[Elements]

that flavor was a tear jerker

[Elements]

I’m pretty sure with these crap kills that there’s scum in the big three which makes me want to spare only the little three

HEAL: Oversoul

who are the big three and who are the little three and what makes them so?

[Elements]

who would I be scum with?

[Elements]

i don't like that im not killed

Probably because scum don't kill themselves

[Elements]

The problem with going for a pacifist ending is that there are no chances to reevaluate and that is very extremely horribly bad for town. No flip games have an obscenely high scum win percentage for that very reason; the chance that we get it 100 percent right on our first try is not great but with the chance to reassess our win % improves

HEAL: Oversoul

notice whats wrong here?

you raise a very good point here
HURT: nacho
anything to say nacho?

[Elements]

Ele how do you get from point A to B?

by changing my vote

[Elements]

Ele how do you get from point A to B? I get that your meta is supposed to be 'flip your stuff around a ton' but. Well I'll let you answer before I lead this somewhere.

More seriously. To apply more pressure to nacho so they feel like they could be a viable lynch target etc you know how the game works, and because I doubt anyone is going to follow my wisdom vote. At least for now.

[Elements]

pro tip if you want to pressure vote dont announce it as such

what am i mean to say

[Elements]

I think sparing is actually the better move than lynching. If we have spared scum already and then lynch a townie we essentially just lose

we reach the same gamestate if we go pacifist and have spared 1 scum or neutral with one town lynch and have spared one scum

[Elements]

oversoul, would you be happy sparing mastina?

[Elements]

Over myself? No

Over anyone not yourself

[Elements]

HEAL: mastina

[Elements]

Mastina, why would you not want to be spared today? If you think the two currently spared are town it clears all three of you as town - perspective from town you. No one shouldn't want to be the spare today. So why don't you want to be spared?

[Elements]

HEAL: mastina

feeling strongest on this

HEAL: pops
I want mastina to answer my question before this gets hammered

[Elements]

HEAL: oversoul

[Elements]

Hold up

Over when you mentioned the last game that made me realize we still have a PR

Which we shouldn't comment on yet

[Elements]

As for Elements/Chemist: they're my current best guess for the scumteam. I think that one of them is almost certainly scum with a high probability that both are. There's a small chance of Xayah being scum, and there's a small chance of Rakan being scum, and yes, even the chance those two are the scumteam. But far more likely is that one of Chemist/Elements is definitely scum and the other is probably their partner.

Which of xayah and raken do you think is more likely to be chemists partner?

[Elements]

HURT: xayah
Mastina, before xayah was spared who did you think was scum?

[Elements]

HURT: pops

[Elements]

That having been said: given your experience as a player versus Elements's experience as a player, I find it MORE LIKELY that Elements would make this sort of misplay than you would

I feel personally attacked and offended by this.

[Elements]

I have gone through Xayah's iso and found the scum master plan! The scum game plan was for Xaylah to push "Chem/ele/over" as the potential scum to lead to a mislynch at mylo within that group to end the game. This makes the Xayah spare make a lot of sense. It takes out the otherwise confirmed town early giving less time for them to help discuss the game state and forces the important decision to be made.

Now, you may be saying "But elements that incriminates you as much as oversoul" and by itself, yes it does. However, Xayah started to lead oversoul out from that as the game went on trying to paint oversoul in the more favourable light before the clinch moment.

Spoiler: Torn Notebook

Setting up the chem/ele/over endgame options

I feel like when I read into anything Chen/Ele/Oversoul are saying in regards to each other it’s like a clique talking in girl talk about meta I have no idea about. So you guys having reads on them has me ???

That seems like Ele/Chem/Oversoul from what I can tell. So I blame them~

Starting to distance oversoul from the group.

Really as long as Chem Ele don't get spared I'm okay with things atm. I guess Oversoul too

Xayah, why are you now comfortable townreading me when you were not before? If I'm not mistaken, wasn't I a stronger scumread for you?

I thought scum was in you Chem/Ele for some time now. But the day before when Wisdom was going on about how you and Nacho were a team and Nacho made this case. I figured the best way for me to get information was to vore Nacho. If he flipped scum then yay he was scum. If he flipped town than you're probably town. I've always had a hard time reading you. In the dance game I thought you were town when you were scum. So, I'm going to trust in Nacho and hopefully in others. I also feel better about this because it's basically a cop check fmpov. Since I'm confident in Rakan and Ginngie town.

I want to know why people townread Mastina.
I've had a scumread on Chem for most of the game and it hasn't really faded. For Elements some people say he's in his town meta but I just don't get his play. It pings me. So to say I townread you would be wrong. I think you're townier than the options left.

This post was modified from its original form in a use of mod discretion. It is almost certain Elements intended to use pop-open spoiler tags, but even if he didn't I would be interested in taking some kind of action because {spoiler} tags have known issues with mobile viewing and it is important for all slots to maintain equal access to game content.
A totally unaltered form of this post was posted in the mod PT and can be reposted if somehow necessary

Pop-open spoiler tags require some type of title and Elements' BBCode error is not providing one at all, so as an "NAI" title the Undertale item "Torn Notebook" is his pop-open title.
-popsofctown

[Elements]

Intent to hammer

Why chemist why!

[Elements]

Intent to hammer

Why chemist why!

Maybe because the self-vote was basically a scumclaim?

She was already confirmed scum

[Elements]

It relies on the scumteam planning on a Xayah spare qr something which could only happen if we missed the deadline.

This is why Xayah started town reading Oversoul over me/chem. She wouldn't have done that if the plan was to suicide spare her. That just came as a convenient way to reduce the players down to the "mislynch trio" more quickly.

Xayah also actively asked Oversoul about the scum PT:

Under your assumption that Rakan and aginngie are both town that means both scum are still alive. What do you think scum would be trying to do in this situation?
How does this change if one scum is in spare and 1 scum is out?

Well, it depends on how confident the scumteam is that they can beat the others. Today has been a rather lax day and it makes me question if scum are comfortable or if we've all just been lazy. Do scum not want to be spared or do they think they can get one of Rakan or Gin killed? I was trying to not be so hard on my stances at first to see if I could give scum a chance in thinking they can mislynch Rakan. But the only one who really is taking a 'Rakan scum' stance seems to be Mastina. She's had that read since day 1.

Tell me, do you think both scum are playing right now or are they in the pt?

That’s a good point about this day being lax. Hmm.

My thoughts are that if scum are not in currently in the spare, they would want to get into the spare to cast doubt on the current spare members and to get that additional kill. However, if scum are already in the spare they wouldn’t care if anyone gets spared or killed as long as the outside member isn’t getting lynched. They’ve already locked in the second kill and any doubt for spare members and if a lynch goes through on a townie they just win outright.

Now that I’m walking through this logic it really seems likely to me that scum are already in the spare given there’s been like no effort from town this phase.

I almost don’t want to be in the spare because if my thinking is correct people are just gonna incorrectly scumread me and after Baton Pass I don’t think I have the mental or physical strength to deal with that

Who do you think the scum in the spare pt could be? Because we obviously disagree on that. This kinda looks like, well. That's exactly what you're saying. You're about to get spared and you're preparing for it. So, if I could clear your doubts about scum in the spare pt would that make you want to be spared? Let's say the answer to that is no. Who would you spare right now if given the chance?

Under your assumption that Rakan and aginngie are both town that means both scum are still alive. What do you think scum would be trying to do in this situation?
How does this change if one scum is in spare and 1 scum is out?

Well, it depends on how confident the scumteam is that they can beat the others. Today has been a rather lax day and it makes me question if scum are comfortable or if we've all just been lazy. Do scum not want to be spared or do they think they can get one of Rakan or Gin killed? I was trying to not be so hard on my stances at first to see if I could give scum a chance in thinking they can mislynch Rakan. But the only one who really is taking a 'Rakan scum' stance seems to be Mastina. She's had that read since day 1.

Tell me, do you think both scum are playing right now or are they in the pt?

If you read through Xayah's PT, her and oversoul are so much closer then her and I

[Elements]

VOTE: xayah

[Elements]

Um ok. Have to use the hurt tags, but

Well.
There goes my plan.
I am fully expecting to be the nightkill.
But if I wasn't the nightkill, tomorrow I was PLANNING to reaction test by casting a vote using the vote tag rather than the hurt tag to see if I could bait the final scum into outing themselves.

That doesn't work though. Whoever you vote the other person will know that they're on the opposite team and vote for them. Scum or not.

[Elements]

HURT: oversoul

[Elements]

I don’t know why Elements has decided to just phone it in for the last couple of days, but I think it is an admission of defeat considering the corner he got backed into.

I was away at a Quidditch tournament.

[Elements]

What do you think is the biggest point in your favor for you being town (to both of you)

I have said that I scum read xayah since day two.
In comparison Oversoul did not give any reads on xayah until she was confirmed scum.

[Elements]

God I hate LyLo.

Ate

Chemist, I think it has been made abundantly clear by several players that I am town. I have been playing this game to my town game and more specifically to my town game from the last Undertale Semiopen. I think the biggest point in my favor is the fact that Xayah was put into the spare room to kamikaze. Scum didn’t want me in there to get 3 confirmed town. If I was scum, I would have definitely made sure to hammer myself to get into the spare room and if I couldn’t then I would have strongly urged Xayah to let me be the one to get in because I have a much weaker scum game than she does.

WIFOM

As scum I opt for the path of least resistance. I wouldn’t have killed any of the people that died especially Mastina because they either had me as town lean or didn’t scumread me. I think just from start to finish the plays that have been made point to Elements being scum, but I’m not going to bitch and moan to see that I’m town like I did in Baton Pass.

WIFOM

All of Oversoul's arguments are pure unadulterated WIFOM

[Elements]

Both Mastina and Nacho are among the upper echelon of players on this site.

I bet your feeling really chuffed with yourself for having fooled them.

[Elements]

What monster are you oversoul?

[Elements]

why are y'all making flavor arguments at this point

There are no flavour arguments. Non vanilla town get a fake vanilla town role pm to use to mitigate this.

[Elements]

Interesting how you have such an in depth knowledge of why the chennis kill happened. Almost as if you did it. Because you did. That's the point I'm making. Oversoul killed Chennis.

[Elements]

Every game I've played and where I've been set up for a mislynch it has been hard backed by the scum team because of a night kill them made specifically to incriminate me.
How many games have you played where scum killed the people scum reading them to get that voice out of the game?
Now compare that to the number of games where scum make kills based on activity and affinity to set up mislynches.
You were in the last undertale game chem, my kills were in no way based off who scum read me and my partner.
This play oversoul is making is exactly what happened in Newbie Quoteswhere the night kill was made purely to incriminate me.

[Elements]

Think about how I've been playing this game. Scum don't flip flop. I've been flip flopping most of the game which has drawn attention to myself. Scum don't want to draw attention to them self, it makes it more likely for them to be caught.
What you have to think bout now chemist is not "who has played the most scummy" but "who has been trying to be more townie". Just by being scum you're more paranoid about appearing scummy so you make an effort to look like town whereas when you're town you know everything comes from a town perspective and make less of an effort to avoid being scummy.

[Elements]

Chemist, we can't lose two back to back lylos where we're both town.

[Elements]

Chemist, we can't lose two back to back lylos where we're both town.

wow you’re really gonna play that card

Didn't want to, but idk what else to say that I haven't already.

[Elements]

that is just bad play if I’m scum.

It's clearly not If you're going to win because of it

[Elements]

ye

[Elements]

Okay this is basically exactly how elements played in Marked For Death

Told you I was easy to read