Mini Normal 2107 (Game Over)

[Looker]

Hello, people; we don't know each other.

VOTE: Saudade

[Looker]

Zote gets it

Of course I do. I am the Great Intelligent Zote the Mighty after all.

I appreciate the readability and brevity of your posts. Even with the third-person referencing, your stances are easy to understand.

Again, self hammering is literally against the rules.

Again, Day 1 sucks because I have nothing to actually work with, so, yeah, I'm willing to hammer at L-1 Day 1.

• I agree
• I agree, but I wouldn't blindly hammer. I don't feel the majority's always right, so, a group of players getting someone to L-1 wouldn't automatically require me to hammer

---

I am very comfortable with my Saudade vote.

[Looker]

If self hammering is against the rules do you have a problem with scum self hammering at L-1 to limit discussion and hinder town - that’s pro-scum and if they didn’t do it would break the play to your win con rule

That underlying point is people are saying “rules are rules” but the rules conflict each other so let’s not get bogged down in that

I have a problem with rules being broken. If rules are disagreed with, they should be addressed and reviewed, not broken.

• If discussion is still needed, any member on that wagon can unvote
• It's up to the Moderator to interpret and deconflict the rules - not me

[Looker]

Is there anything important I need to know about the Wimpy/Vork/profii discussions that have clogged up the last three pages?

I attempted to skim it, but it was obnoxious trash.

how is it possible you have 62 posts and you have not done any scum hunting?

I don't understand the word vomit either.

Wimpy has requested replacement

That's disheartening.

Wake88 you gonna say anything this game or nah

More importantly,

@Wake88

, does it require someone being at L-1 for you to vote? Do you not want the hammer to go to anyone else as a personal preference?

---

After everyone's had a chance to vote, I'd like to press forward with consolidating wagons.

[Looker]

Right now I think Saudade is town. I don't much care for his minimalistic posting style, but he seems to want to progress the game along and get us away from the pointless discussion that has clogged the past few pages.

I don't see this. Can you point me to a post where he was progressing the game as opposed to spamming the thread? I'm trying to determine whether my distrust of him is based on alignment or personality.

[Looker]

Looker: scummy, can't quite put my finger on why, prob gut and post #272 as well as the other posts being fluff

Trash, also known as unsubstantiated garbage.

Right now I think Saudade is town. I don't much care for his minimalistic posting style, but he seems to want to progress the game along and get us away from the pointless discussion that has clogged the past few pages.

I don't see this. Can you point me to a post where he was progressing the game as opposed to spamming the thread? I'm trying to determine whether my distrust of him is based on alignment or personality.

Okay, you guys stop it now and move on.
The last 10 pages of content are literally useless (well almost, its only use is for townreading wimpy but thats very narrow)

WHERE ARE THE OTHER PEOPLE

Also you are spending so much energy arguing with wimpy but it doesnt bring us an inch closer to our goal, so, again, vorkuta!!! Focus child

Its not about who is right in this argument its about making sure we lynch scum d1 and then do it again tomorrow

Whether or not he's successful in progressing the game along remains to be seen, but the point is that there an attempt/desire to move the game past the shenanigans of the previous pages. I don't think these wretched scum would make these posts.

I reluctantly concede.
UNVOTE:
I just really wanted him to be scum so that we could lynch him and cut the page count moving forward in half. I'm sorry for my selfishness.

Precept Twenty-Three: Identify the Foes Weak Point. Every foe you encounter has a weak point, such as a crack in their shell

or being asleep

. You must constantly be alert and scrutinising your enemy to detect their weakness!

This made me smile and laugh out loud.

---

I haven't read Wake yet, but I will. I do remember enough to understand the irony of this situation, though.

[Looker]

This post... Rubs me the wrong way.. in multiple places at once..

I feel like vague statements like this allow you to feign logic you don't have. Could you be more specific?

We should probably stop the quote quoting

Sadalaman: I'm not happy with his contributions so far.

Down to wagon on: Looker, Sadalaman, profii depending on his answers.

Join me fren

Ye sure thing mason buddy, your post 308 makes sense

VOTE: Sadalaman

You guys arent going to believe who my mason partner is

It's me obviously

I don't understand if I'm supposed to take these as jokes or serious claims. I feel that this is intentional. I feel you blast so much bullshit and fake news that you intentionally obfuscate the thread so that people can't get solid reads.

I Townread Wimpy's/Elbirns slot, so I will not be voting for him the remainder of the game, nor will I accept any votes directed his way. I do not believe Scum would just replace out like that, and I think that could be tactical replacing out (don't quote me on that).

I'm not comfortable making that bold of a statement. Regardless of emotional outbursts or choosing to replace out, I don't believe anyone is above review.

I'm not comfortable with Looker's activity level.

If you want my family, you can have them, but fair. This is why I emphasize asking pointed/directive questions. I don't have that much time, so, when I log on, I try to process and output as much as possible.

Because it’s easy for scum to sheep wrong town and be like yep I just agreed with that dude he sounded clever

I'm slowly remembering that this is the soul of every mafia game.

[Looker]

Im giving you plenty of space and opportunity to make reads.
However Im not letting you read me as easily as you'd like.

I'm not understanding the intent of the concealment.

I don't understand if I'm supposed to take these as jokes or serious claims. I feel that this is intentional. I feel you blast so much bullshit and fake news that you intentionally obfuscate the thread so that people can't get solid reads.

Wait so....

You're ignoring all the other people saying 'Papa Mason' and just straight claiming Mason with no partner but you think that I 'blast so much bullshit and fake news that you intentionally obfuscate the thread so that people can't get solid reads.'

Are you sure you're not only attacking me because.... I'm voting for you?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... d_You_Suck

• You're deflecting; I'm targeting the concept. Saying "They did it, too!" doesn't make it any better. My sentiment still stands.
  
• I'm familiar with OMGUS; it typically involves a vote. I'm also familiar with attacks - this is not one.

---

VOTE: Elements

[Looker]

Lack of protest of the wake wagon falling down is noted. Any thoughts from anyone?

I feel it was opportunistic scum, honestly. When people don't have to give reasoning, anybody can jump on a wagon.

Can someone TL;DR key points the wagon on looker?
I've caught up but I still don't get it

It's pretty much

the post below

.

Off you go then start the scumhunt

You've mentioned Looker a couple times and have casted some suspicion towards him, but I was hoping you could be more specific. Also,

I don't like how little he's contributed to this game, and I think putting some pressure on him is merited.

VOTE: Looker

Why would i bother regurgitating reasons?

Because it’s easy for scum to sheep wrong town and be like yep I just agreed with that dude he sounded clever

I don’t like that post, at all.

VOTE: ultimateplank

So instead I should use other people's reasoning to place my own vote?

I feel like the point is that you should at least have

a

reason or

some

reasoning for voting.

Can someone TL;DR key points the wagon on looker?
I've caught up but I still don't get it

You have a reason for not wanting Looker to be pressured?

That was a very weird thing to say. He asked you for your reasoning and you pretty much said "I have none." It was the equivalent of "Why" versus "Why not".

My reason for pressuring Looker is that he has basically no content. I'd forgotten all about that slot until I saw others vote him, and then I realised that was actually a good place for a wagon right now.

In any case I'm very comfortable seeing how poorly profii and Vork have responded to Looker suddenly getting a few votes. I think we should keep the pressure on Looker, or one of those two

• Elements has no content and, up until now, you've championed him being scum
• Forgetting a slot doesn't make that slot scummy; hopping on a wagon just makes you opportnustic
• Saying it's "a good place for a wagon right now" shows a lack of conviction - you're sheeping
• People will respond poorly to your lack of reasoning regardless of who you are voting, as you will soon see

Um no, maybe others can weigh in on this, but OMGUS

does not

have to involve a vote!

You specifically quoted and called me out on doing it and tried to paint me as intentionally doing it (I was) to blast bullshit and fake news to obfuscate the thread (????), when I was clearly doing it as a joke as a reply to saudade's claims and also Vorkuta's.

• They can; I did; it doesn't. That's what the word 'typically' was used for.
• I specifically questioned whether it was a joke and you exploded. You were doing it on purpose, though, so okay. Either way, it's not helpful to me, and so I will state as much.

I have a really bad headache I'll play later

Hope it goes away soon!

Finally, the wake wagon filled up really fast with a very small amount of resistance, and fell away as fast.
Whereas this looker wagon has some real resistance to it. People are either not commenting on it or parking their votes on people with just 1 vote. We need to pressure this slot more.

Join me on this wagon!

I would investigate those members on the Wake wagon. My wagon's experiencing resistance because: (A) The reasoning is weirdly selective - you target me over Element despite him having no content (B) The scum that jumped on Wake looking for a quicklynch would look hella scummy if they hopped on my wagon with no hesitation

The only thing in Looker's ISO I dislike right now is his vote on Elements.

Is there a reasonable opposition or just a lack of understanding?

Finally, the wake wagon filled up really fast with a very small amount of resistance, and fell away as fast.
Whereas this looker wagon has some real resistance to it.

That's basically what I'm feeling at the moment, for what it's worth.

I really, REALLY hate Day 1 because I've got nothing tangible to work with.

I've got both profii and Zote getting fussy over putting pressure on Looker, and I'm not so sure how to read that so early in the game.

Fair, but I feel it would be more helpful if you addressed their actual reasoning. I didn't vote you - does that make me scummy?

That's basically what I'm feeling at the moment, for what it's worth.

I really, REALLY hate Day 1 because I've got nothing tangible to work with.

I've got both profii and Zote getting fussy over putting pressure on Looker, and I'm not so sure how to read that so early in the game.

Go ahead and read Zote's ISO. Theres a shitload of posts, but he's probably said the same amount of non-fluff as you.

This was improperly quoted - that's not what Zote said in post 319. (Is this part of your blast bullshit and fake news M.O.? ) [I was joking. Notice the smiley.]

Elements is being prodded

It's cool; I have time.

Where is the part where he's genuinely trying to figure out Saudade's alignment exactly?

I see Zote having a townread and Looker saying that he isn't sure about that. But where does Looker actually go out of his way to show that he is trying to sort Saudade?

I feel that's subjective. Who's to say what scumhunting looks like and what it doesn't? I feel like your expectations are a stretch for D1.

I'm very surprised that Elements isn't participating when the town has a lot of divided opinions

So did you forget about him? Do you find this scummy? Or does he not meet your vote quota to be found scummy?

VOTE: profii

Actually this is where I want to vote. Looker's probably a wolf with profii, but profii's actually actively doing wolfy things right now. I think profii is a surefire bet to flip wolf.

If I'm probably a wolf and have a wagon, why would you hop off of it? Especially if you're not going to provide reasoning to compel a wagon?

Ugh the votes are all over the place. Its hard to analyse when people start a 1 vote wagon all over the place.

I would think it'd be easier to analyze when people are genuinely voting how they feel. I feel wagons are where people get to hide under bullshit. Blasted bullshit.

So you think Looker is town because he is trying to figure out if someone else is town or not.

Which is what most of us here are doing?

Most of us are town, alimdia.

---

So, here's the deal: I'll keep my vote on Elements until he returns or is replaced out; however, upon his return and input, I'm prepared to place my final vote of D1.

[Looker]

Wait so post #396 or #414 is me exploding? I just had a look at both of them and.... its just me defending myself against your claim that I'm intentionally obfuscating the thread. FYI you're still only pointing at me for doing that.

I read exclamations (!) as excitement. Also:

• "You think you know a guy and he does something stupid."
  
• "You are stupid."

When saying "you" in the blast bullshit post, I was using the first version.

Your next post, which is the post I am quoting, suddenly straight up slips that wake is town. Hmm? Where did that sudden town read come from? I think it's definitely a slip

If we assume that's an accident.... who is the opportunistic scum on the wagon? Why is your vote on Elements, who needed to be prodded by the mod and thus actually hasn't posted in a while.

• I draw reads from circumstances sometimes. It looks hella scummy if somebody (or a group of people) jumps on Person A with no reasoning.
  
• My vote was on Elements to remind the thread that he existed. I want input from everyone before the end of D1.

Why don't you do some investigation yourself instead of putting a vote on an afk person until they come back? That makes no sense. 5 other people aren't gonna magically jump onto his wagon before he gets replaced or comes back.

That's subjective - I

am

investigating. My intent was not to quicklynch, so I don't see why "5 other people magically jumping on his wagon before he gets replaced" would be important. Are quicklynches important to you?

If my case convinces people, I don't see why they have to find some other extra reasoning to vote with me.
It's only when its like ... the wake wagon where there's not really a case that its suspicious.

• So you agree with me that the Wake wagon was suspicious? But fault me for finding it suspicious?

I assume you're referring to me questioning your vote on Elements, to which I'd reply that I don't understand where it comes from. Why did you vote someone who has been V/LA most of the day?

Because the day's not over and input's preferred from everyone.

Do you expect me to have full cases on people when we're still early in Day 1 and little has been established? I find it troubling that you are so confident in your reads.

With such flimsy reasoning.

So basically the case against Looker is his lack of contribution or substance in his posts. Is that not very similar to the case that was against Wake in the beginning? I find it odd that the players in support of the Looker wagon were the same people who were against the Wake wagon are in support of the Looker wagon despite the similar reasoning.

Most cases have been founded on lurking.

VOTE: Looker

Back to this after that last page. Have to go to work.

I feel that if you have time to vote, you have time to explain.

After rereading the game and focusing on Looker's posts,
well

guy posts like a robot

I don't know what that means. 404: Comprehension not found

2. Why do you instead continue to have a bizarre fixation on Elements instead? If there was a time to move on over to bigger and better things it's with this post, but instead you posture about how you're going to move and continue to vote park someone who at the time wasn't even here.

"Continue" and "bizarre" (and "fixation") are exaggerative. "Bigger" and "better" are also subjective. Day 1's not over, input is required from everyone, and it worked - Elements returned and contributed as opposed to his previous lackluster posts.

I mean look at how fast the wake wagon went, and how slow this Looker wagon is, even tho my case on Looker has way more content than the case on wake.

It's more verbose, but equally lacks validity.

I think while finding connections is crucial in this game in terms of looking for scum partnering possibilities, we shouldn't have 2 seperate wagons.

I need to read Plank later

to see what you are saying, but for now if you think Looker is scum, you should be on the Looker wagon.

This is the same phrasing I used when referring to Wake. Why did you find it scummy?

Welcome to Mafia, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Looker

True, but it'd help if you provided justification.

VC 1.5

Wake88 (5):

Saudade, profii, Vorkuta, Zote the Mighty, Saladman27

(L-1)

Saladman27 (3):

Elbirn, UltimatePlank, alimdia

Elbirn (1):

Elements

Not voting (2):

Wake88, Looker

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2019-11-18 03:00:00)

VC 1.8

Looker (4):

Wake88, alimdia, UltimatePlank, Elbirn

(L-2)

UltimatePlank (3):

profii, Saladman27, Elements

Wake88 (2):

Saudade, Vorkuta

Saladman27 (1):

Zote the Mighty

Not voting (1):

Looker

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2019-11-18 03:00:00)

---

Mod Notes:

Saladman27 is V/LA until 11/14

It's pretty strange that those 2 wagons comprise of no overlap.

I just want to keep this in my ISO.

Interesting how those three on mine jumped onto Salad instead.

What three?

Looker

, I would ask you to please claim.

No quick-lynching, the rest of you. I want this information.

I'll claim on Friday, or you can find out earlier by hammering.

---

I feel alimdia's attacks are because I accused her of unsubstantiated garbage. I think Wake88 just wants to end Day 1. Elbirn confuses me; however, UltimatePlank has been consistently sheeping wagons and contradicting himself. I was trying to draw connections and see who he sheeped more, but I'm comfortable leaving my vote on him for the rest of Day 1.

VOTE: UP

[Looker]

Looker

, I would ask you to please claim.

No quick-lynching, the rest of you. I want this information.

so you can declare yourself as a quick-hammer'er but when you are on the wagon we have to wait until you are satisfied?

I am not going to quick hammer but this double standard is outrageous

But is hypocrisy scummy?

I'm a big fan of pressuring this slot actually

VOTE: Looker

Why do you keep on sheeping others without any good reason? Why not even regurgitate the other wagoneers’ reasoning?

Looker - if I said Salad looks like he is trying to discourage people from voting you by belittling their reasoning here what would you say ?

Two things:

• I agree that demanding justification for votes promotes accountability and makes future scumhunting easier - it makes it easier to point out inconsistencies in certain player relationships
  
• I also think it could be low-risk daytalk to a partner who's jumping around too obviously

No you had 0 mention of wake, and then suddenly you assume wake is town. 0 analysis in between. You didn't express any reads in between.

Are you expecting reads to be given out pre-Day 1? Where do you think they come from? They're derived in-game from interactions, so I don't see why you'd expect them to be telegraphed in RVS

You still haven't investigated the people on the wake wagon, conveniently ignores my post 443 where I help dissect the wake wagon and how Looker has almost 0 scum reads on the 5 people on wake's wagon.

Hm... "Are quicklynches important to you?" Where did that question come from? I was saying your vote is useless on Elements because nobody was gonna wagon him at the time. Your vote is very important for analysis later. The fact that you parked it on someone to 'waste your vote' was highly suspicious when combined with the rest of my case- that was what I was saying

• Define "investigate"
  
• You didn't help me dissect anything. If anything, you're making it difficult by pushing for a hammer before everyone can chime in.
  
• You saying my vote was useless is opinion. I stand behind every vote I make.

• So you agree with me that the Wake wagon was suspicious? But fault me for finding it suspicious?

You've just said it was suspicious with a sudden blindsided town read on wake when you previously had nothing on Wake. Where are your actions to support your words?

If someone does something scummy and you find it scummy, is that a sudden blindsided scum read?

I think while finding connections is crucial in this game in terms of looking for scum partnering possibilities, we shouldn't have 2 seperate wagons.

I need to read Plank later

to see what you are saying, but for now if you think Looker is scum, you should be on the Looker wagon.

This is the same phrasing I used when referring to Wake. Why did you find it scummy?

I didn't have a sudden town or scum read on Plank with nothing in between a few posts later? Whereas you did.

So deduction is scummy?

Its Tuesday now. You need 3 days to make a claim?
Looker basically didn't defend the meat of the case at all other than 'flimsy reasoning' and 'unsubstantiated'. Someone else has to see this right?
Someone that has a similar viewpoint state an intent to hammer and force a claim immediately please.

I need 3 days for every player to be available to provide input and vote. I really don't get your case. You say I'm scum for finding Wake's wagon suspicious, but you weren't on it either. I legit thought this was you being upset over the trash comment.

2. Why do you instead continue to have a bizarre fixation on Elements instead? If there was a time to move on over to bigger and better things it's with this post, but instead you posture about how you're going to move and continue to vote park someone who at the time wasn't even here.

"Continue" and "bizarre" (and "fixation") are exaggerative. "Bigger" and "better" are also subjective. Day 1's not over, input is required from everyone, and it worked - Elements returned and contributed as opposed to his previous lackluster posts.

I'm sorry, but it reads here like you're saying my return from V/LA had something to do with your vote on me? What planet could you be on to possibly think that? I do not believe for a second you genuinely think that your single vote on me changed my activity level or was likely to in the slightest. You just didn't want to vote plank and had to come up with some excuse.

Just hammer this wake idc for a claim at this point.

• I don't like moving forward until everyone's provided input; it makes D2 more D2 than D1
  
• I'm positive we're on the same planet
  
• Regardless of whether it influenced your activity level, I wasn't going to let slide the fact that you hadn't contributed and chose to highlight it
  
• Why wouldn't I want to vote Plank?

I'll not be hammering. I want Looker and Salad to come back at least before I go anywhere near it

Salad won't be back until Thursday

Looker, both alimdia and I asked you essentially the same question and you took the time to make an entire wall of text without addressing either of us about it. You even took the time to *remove* my question from your quote wall while you responded to my point #2, so it's not like you didnt see it.

My vote stays until i have an answer. Stop dodging the subject.

• I don't care about your vote
  
• I can't answer a problem in the middle of solving it - I wanted Salad's assessment of me being at L-1 and his response

---

I'm not moving my vote, I'm secure in it, and I'd like to see what Saladman does with his when he sees that I'm at L-1

[Looker]

Do you not agree that Salad was being a bit too cautious when announcing intent to put Wake at L-1?

As for Plank, some of his reactions have been pinging me. In particular I did not like his hop on the Looker wagon. 408 is a sketchy post as well and it feels like a jump reaction to someone questioning the Looker wagon. Sort of like a 'why would you not vote for this person?' kind of reaction.

Do you expect me to have full cases on people when we're still early in Day 1 and little has been established? I find it troubling that you are so confident in your reads.

Yes he was a bit too cautious, but that could have been a mariad of reasons - e.g. town afraid of someone quickhammering, or scum trying to not look opportunistic are the top 2 that come to my mind.

I don't need you to have a full case. Just more than what you had for Salad, where you went from "Salad is lynchbait" to "Vote Salad because of L-1 thing"

Regarding your comments about Plank, those comments would have been good ... when you made the accusation of Plank being scummy, instead of only now, you know what I mean?

You don't think there was a reason I withheld my reasons for finding Plank scummy, cur? I wanted to see if Plank would continue his pattern of suspicious behavior and if you lay out the reasons that you find that person suspicious, then they're more likely to intentionally change their behavior which doesn't help me get solid reads.

Does not everyone play this way?

This is bad. I'm assuming you were aware that Elements was on V/LA and given that his V/LA was scheduled to be over long before our deadline is reached, I don't understand why you were so concerned about this.

I don't trust V/LA's - not blindly. It's too easy for someone to post bullshit fluff, go "V/LA", and then lurk while everyone else contributes perspectives to which we can hold them accountable. I just don't think it's a fair style of play.

Looker, despite your uhh standoffish nature I can read between the lines and see where your head is at. That being said I don't agree with sitting on our hands for days at a time while you wait, for the second time this phase, for someone to come back from VLA before you play. California is on fire. Like, all of it. All the time. Saladman isn't coming back any time soon.

Why do you pick Plank over Saladman in this scenario? From where I'm sitting it seems odd that you're so confident in your plank read, and your stated reasoning is that he...sheeps wagons.

• I didn't think I was standoffish. Standoffish would be lurking and going V/LA.
  
• If you don't like absent players, consult the Mod; that's not my fault
  
• Salad's not in California; he's in Australia
  
• As opposed to being confident in alimdia's "Looker doesn't sheep wagons"?

Except your post 334, 393, 403 are not pre-Day 1 anymore. Its after a crapload of stuff has happened

A crapload of stuff that influenced my perspective.

If wake88 flips scum Looker is scum as well

After me who do we go to?

obviously if someone pushes a wagon hard and that wagon turns green, you look at that person? you don't immediately consider they're scum, but you look at that possibility for sure

but he questions why we would do that, saying, "obviously alimdia is just cock sure"

like, what?

You will find that being wrong is not a scumtell.

I don't like that lack of accountability. What's the difference between being "wrong" and intentionally lynching town?

Friday is gonna roll around and Looker is gonna be like 'Yeah I'm not on L-1 I'm not claiming' and then when we get them to L-1 again they're gonna stall more.

I said what I said and I meant it - all players need to play if we're going to play this game. If majority want me to claim, I'll do it; I don't care.

Then as the game progresses looker has this unusual observational style of contributing to the game so initially in my mind I gave him the benefit of the doubt as perhaps he just comes from a different era of the site where that’s how those dudes play but as the game carries on and he continues to be “diplomatic” as I called it, I think I should vote him, so I did

• What's the difference between my "unusual observational style" and others'?
  
• Is "diplomatic" your way of saying insincere? That would be ironic.

---

Is the extent of Wake's contribution to D1 going to be hammering?

[Looker]

You're just tunneling on wake at this point

Is this humor?

Looker - I mean you seem to avoid direct questions or give elusive answers

What question did I elude? Was it the one about Salad?

initially he has a bunch of fluff posts, gets into a scrap with wimpy, then lurks after Wimpy replaces out.
He asks about main poins on Looker wagon, then doesn't respond.
0 interactions with Looker
0 proper interactions with me other than saying I need to post more and you'll follow up but never doing so.

I don't much much on that slot unfortunately.

Yes- because I've ISO'd you and all that but the case on looker seems iffy and nowhere as decent as the wake case is.
Also he posts sporadic walls so idk what I event want to ask him.

I mean back pre-wimpy replace you didn't have too many posts so *shrugs*

Whats the wake case other than speed hammer day 1?

I think it's clever that you took my sentiments and expressed them but called me scummy for expressing them. I say I don't like the case on Wake and it's scummy, but you say it and it's scum

hunting

.

You literally only post if you're being mentioned
You're blatant weak and reactive scum with zero active actions done this game

The same could be said of Elements and Salad.

This is bad. I'm assuming you were aware that Elements was on V/LA and given that his V/LA was scheduled to be over long before our deadline is reached, I don't understand why you were so concerned about this.

I don't trust V/LA's - not blindly. It's too easy for someone to post bullshit fluff, go "V/LA", and then lurk while everyone else contributes perspectives to which we can hold them accountable. I just don't think it's a fair style of play.

Does everyone have to share what is going on in their life if they do go V/LA? We all have lives outside of this game. I, as a knight of great renown, slay many beasts on a daily basis.

One valid criticism that you could bring up is to say that Elements's play since getting back from V/LA has been lackluster.

• No one has to share anything, but I also don't have to trust it.
  
• That's my point: Certain players* don't post unless they're forced - I don't like that. It's unfair to the players who post and offer perspectives regularly. (*Elements, Salad, Wake) It also throws off reads.

I said I think almidia is town because he is driving the looker wagon from scratch but at what point should I consider that he could be using it to not really get involved in all the other slots in the game whilst still appearing active and participating

The moment you criticized the lack of reasoning.

1. You have a way of deflecting or approaching conversation in a way that seems disingenuous. I will also insist for the second time that you respect that other players go on VLA for personal reasons.

2. I'm not the one here who has a problem with people going VLA. My point here that you should have grasped is that you don't get to use other peoples absences as an excuse for not playing the game.

3. You know something you're right, I saw him mention wildfires and just assumed he was from Cali. Its immaterial to the game but yeah.

4. Your "whataboutism" doesn't appeal to me bud. I want you to talk about your scumreads, not deflect. Play the game instead of stonewalling, it makes you difficult to read and if you're town you should want my support on your preferred lynches and I've been really transparent about wanting to work WITH you. If you show me you have a thought process re: plank/salad then I can come around to a townread on you and possibly support for a lynch on one of those two.

• You can insist whatever you want - I don't have to trust bullshit play. Also, I don't get this "disingenuous" projection you're pushing.
  
• I don't have a problem; also, I
  am
  playing - it's impossible for me to be in this thread and not play the game.
  
• @Mod:
  Can we prod or replace Saladman?

That's not a hammer..

Looker

was already on there.

We need Elbirn (cos saudade clearly isnt) to states intent to hammer and Looker to claim already

Are Wake and I the same to you?

---

Just because someone creates an alt account with three weeks on site doesn't make them a newbie. Conversely, just because someone created an account ten years ago and didn't do shit with it doesn't make them a pro. I remember reading that argument a few pages back.

[Looker]

Looker, Saudade has claimed intent.

We need you to claim please.

i cant believe you let this slot live

I'm doing what I can.

Looker, if you do get lynched today, which players would you recommend being lynched next?

I'd recommend increased scrutiny of you, Plank, Salad, and Elements.

man idk anymore but wake wagon is not better than looker wagon

gonna need more than

"wakemanbad"

what OTHER wagon do you want saudade

honestly id vote saudade over wake at this juncture

Is this a

reference

to a television show or something that I missed?

This looker wagon is made out of players mostly having a hard time getting into the game who were awfully silent in the first 10 pages, odds are its a bad lynch and my wagon on wake is far better

Can you come up with a better wagon than wake? This game state sucks but I'm not lynching someone because

"man play game bad, bad game play man badman"

What are your scumreads aside from Wake?

@Mod:

Can we prod or replace Saladman?[/list]

Due to his V/LA, Saladman27 has been prodded

Any contribution would be helpful.

---

I'm so confused.

[Looker]

That was rough. Sorry to leave you hanging.

[Looker]

Town win rate: 66% (excl <7 player games)