Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[Korts]

I'm sorry, iamausername, but if your evidence pointing to me being partners with SC is the same thing that armlx brought up, then please read the thread this time.

[forbiddanlight]

Let me say I don't support the KortS lynch. I feel he made an honest mistake, that was worth an FoS, but he doesn't need to die for it.

If you think it was an honest mistake, why is it worth a FoS?

---

Because the comment is still questionable. Even as an honest mistake one must be open to the idea of slips. I still stand by vamp being scummy, but I will do a reread to see who I favor in the KortS/armix debate here, if either. I'm also going out, so I probably won't post my conclusions from the reread til I get back.

[armlx]

dear vigilante,
please kill vamp tonight for the good of the colony

I agree with rofl here, as per my post a page or so ago.

its like every time somebody has brought up scummy things armlx has done, he chooses the one he thinks he can most easily refute and says jack squat about the rest of the points in the case.

Except I responded to every point on the case.....

armlx, you have contradicted yourself. You said that roflcopter was bandwagoned to the point of claiming mason, which Korts said he was not. You then bring Lowell into this, implying that you knew that he asked for a mason claim. Said claim request is actually why I currently think he's scummy (remember that I was VERY hesitant to clear roflcopter of my suspicions), but other issues have come up since. Some of them involve you. So without further ado:

Of course I knew about Lowell's statement, but in no way did I assume that was the reason rofl claimed for 2 reasons: 1) he had a growing wagon on him and 2) It was one of the dumbest ideas ever.

[Korts]

its like every time somebody has brought up scummy things armlx has done, he chooses the one he thinks he can most easily refute and says jack squat about the rest of the points in the case.

Except I responded to every point on the case.....

Nice way of ignoring the points that actually made me vote you. Read the last paragraph. Setting up Day 2 lynch, ignoring possible forbiddanlight-Korts connection despite having the same basis as the SC-Korts connection.

[armlx]

Nice way of ignoring the points that actually made me vote you. Read the last paragraph. Setting up Day 2 lynch, ignoring possible forbiddanlight-Korts connection despite having the same basis as the SC-Korts connection.

Setting up D2 lynch only applies if the person we lynch today is scum, as obviously there is no connection if you are town.

I explained the lack of caring about fl because I think fl is town now, so why would a connection to you matter?

[Korts]

Any hint of a connection should not be ignored just because you think one of them's town. You can only be 100% sure of them being town if you are an informed minority. I'm fine with my vote.

[armlx]

You miss the point completely. Why would I be attacking someone I think is town based on one point? SC not only has the defense of you, but has been on actually every other wagon up till now besides yours. Why the exception?

[Korts]

You miss the point completely. Why would I be attacking someone I think is town based on one point? SC not only has the defense of you, but has been on actually every other wagon up till now besides yours. Why the exception?

Well, that's true, at least. But that's not what you said in the first place. Since your point was only that SC believed me, I called you out for leaving out the fact that forbiddanlight did the same. You could've done and cleared that mess up earlier. It almost leads me to think that you have only thought of including the been-on-every-other-wagon part in desperation. Ah well.

[armlx]

@armlx: you are trying to prepare multiple lynches. Not good. Real bad. And what is this connection that you speak of?

SC defending you.

Where does it say only SC did it.

[Korts]

@armlx: you are trying to prepare multiple lynches. Not good. Real bad. And what is this connection that you speak of?

SC defending you.

Where does it say only SC did it.

There you go, trying to misrepresent me. Again. And fail. Again.

I didn't say. Evar. That you state that

only

SC did it. I said that you

failed to mention

even in passing that forbiddanlight did the same thing.

Ye gods, you're trying. Ah well, you can try all you want.

[armlx]

You are misrepresenting me. In no way, shape, or form, did I ever say only SC defended you, as you are implying here

Since your point was only that SC believed me

[Korts]

You are misrepresenting me. In no way, shape, or form, did I ever say only SC defended you, as you are implying here

Since your point was only that SC believed me

Oh. OH. Yeah, reading is tech. There's a "that" between "only" and "SC" which means that I'm saying this:

Since your point didn't say anything more than SC believing me

[Korts]

But I thought that was obvious after reading my 284.

[JordanA24]

Vamp may seem like a decent vote due to his refusal to do anything useful for the town, but I can't help shake the feeling that his wagon is a scum-driven one on an easy target (Oh, and apologies for saying you are female btw, lol). To a lesser extent, I get the same feeling with forbidden.

And actually, now that I re-read armlx's reasoning, I realized I read it wrong the first time, as in armlx didn't deny being the vig in any way. Ah well.

This is the exact danger of your post, and hence the reason I am voting you.

I could also get behind an SC lynch. Pretty shameless wagoning. Rather lynch KortS first though, as theres a connection there now that would reveal info.

Who would you say is scummier, Korts or SC? Personally, I'd say SC, in which case, we should lynch hm first to test the connection, and really consider Korts for the next lynch if SC turns up scum.

Although, I'm not sure how armlx is scummy tbh, he doesn't seem to have done really anything anti-town. He has been accused of setting up multiple lynches, but I don't really find that scummy. If you find a strong connection between two players that imply that if one's scum, the other may well be, then it makes sense to suggest that if one turns up scum if he's lynched, the other should be a serious contender for the next day's lynch. Korts' case against him has a lot of "this isn't much of a point against armlx", which speaks for itself really. And it causes me to think that Korts may well be trying to push a wagon that's based on craplogic and weak/non-existant scumtellls.

Blakadder's a decent target for a wagon I think, his posts have mostly been one-liners with 1 exception. Plus, he gives the air of a cautious scum who doesn't really wish to put anyone's noses out of joint, a good example of the cautious aspect of his posts is this one:

True. I guess I was being a little reckless there.

His bandwagoning also makes me wary of him.

After my reread, I also find myself fairly suspicious of TinVision, he's made 4 posts so far:
1) Has a fairly obvious point about not voting the claimed Masons and a small point against Blakadder.
2) Another small point against Blakadder, not even mentioned other players yet, apart from telling people not to vote rofl and Ironman.
3) A pretty useless point about lynch numbers.
4) Says he's satisfied with Blakadder's answers, which confuses me somewhat, as I can't really see what's satisfying about them, starting to get a feeling of a Tinvision-Blakadder connection, where Tin started with him being fairly anti-Blakadder to throw the town off a little. He then places a lurker vote, which I ABSOLUTELY HATE because a player lurking does not make him any more likely to be scum than town (in fact, I think it may make him LESS likely to be scum) it's an oppotunistic vote because while the player is lurking they cannot defend themselves and they can easily be replaced rather than lynched, and then the replacement can post and we'd be able to decide whether that player is scum or not a lot better than just voting him for lurking, which is simply tantamount to picking a random role out of the hat and lynching them.

I'm fairly tempted to vote Tinvision, and maybe would if it weren't for SC, who's bandwagon hopped like hell (most recently to armlx), kept pressuring rofl long after his claim, only unvoted rofl after peer pressure (which indicates just bending to the towns wishes so as not to cause a major debate about his townness) and of course that major link with Korts, they all persuade me to

Vote: Stranger Coug

.

[strife220]

@Korts: Sorry for the chainsaw, but the first 4 (out of 5) points in your 'case' against Armix are really really poor. This doesn't look like you're voting for pressure, it looks like a serious 'lets lynch him' vote.

I'll also put in my desire to see Vamp vig'd.

Unvote

Going to do a closer reread of Korts. My initial vibe was that he was pro-town but the attack on Armix is too bad for me to ignore.

[Sun Tzu]

I agree with strife. Korts seemed pro-town to me but I'm not buying the case against armlx.

Sorry for having nothing to add. I have things to do for the 4th of July. I'll reread and post my thoughts tomorrow.

[armlx]

Who would you say is scummier, Korts or SC? Personally, I'd say SC, in which case, we should lynch hm first to test the connection, and really consider Korts for the next lynch if SC turns up scum.

I'm leaning KortS if only because I'm unsure on whether this is SC's standard behavior.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm fairly tempted to vote Tinvision, and maybe would if it weren't for SC, who's bandwagon hopped like hell (most recently to armlx), kept pressuring rofl long after his claim, only unvoted rofl after peer pressure (which indicates just bending to the towns wishes so as not to cause a major debate about his townness) and of course that major link with Korts, they all persuade me to

Vote: Stranger Coug

.

OK, I admit to the first three to various extents, but if you believe that the connection between Korts and me exists, then what do you think of the latter's accusing armlx of not taking into account that forbiddanlight has played similarly to me and practically the same connection applies to her and Korts?

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

OK, I admit to the first three to various extents, but if you believe that the connection between Korts and me exists, then what do you think of the

former's

accusing armlx of not taking into account that forbiddanlight has played similarly to me and practically the same connection applies to her and Korts?

Fixed.

[Korts]

There are

some

weak points in my case, but not all of them are. Please read: setting up a Day 2 lynch is

never

good, and trying to pin SC to me while ignoring the same tell in the case of forbiddanlight is

very

bad.

Also, blatant misrepresentation in Post 283. Either that, or scum can't read.

Who would you say is scummier, Korts or SC? Personally, I'd say SC, in which case, we should lynch hm first to test the connection, and really consider Korts for the next lynch if SC turns up scum.

I'm leaning KortS if only because I'm unsure on whether this is SC's standard behavior.

And you're sure that this isn't my standard behavior?

[armlx]

And you're sure that this isn't my standard behavior?

From what I have seen, I am sure.

[Korts]

And you're sure that this isn't my standard behavior?

From what I have seen, I am sure.

K.

[iamausername]

setting up a Day 2 lynch is

never

good

Not true. Setting up a D2 lynch is not good if it's done regardless of the outcome of D1, but I don't see a problem with pointing out connections when they're this obvious, and if one of those players turns up scum, of course the other is going to be a leading lynch candidate the next day.

trying to pin SC to me while ignoring the same tell in the case of forbiddanlight is

very

bad.

forbiddanlight does not have nearly the same connection to you as SC, and the fact that you're so desperately pushing the idea that she does just makes me more convinced that you and SC are scumbuddies freaking out because you've been caught so soon.

[Korts]

The fact that only iamausername and armlx keep pushing the "obvious" connection seems to indicate some kind of connection to me. EDIT: okay, Jordan mentions a "major link" too. I can't really defend myself against arguments saying that I'm scummy for refuting a connection and showing an equally likely possibility.

[armlx]

Where did you refute the connection?