[Challenge] Team Mafia 2020

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:34 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

the only time town played that setup right was when i was ic

we also lynched scum!LLD d1 :D
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:36 pm

Post by popsofctown »

I feel personally attacked
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:57 pm

Post by Micc »

I've added the setup submissions to the opening post of this thread so that they can be easily accessed in one place. Submissions can be made up until December 8th with my goal being to have a final setup chosen and formatted by December 15th. If you see a setup or idea that you really like, please express your support!
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:22 am

Post by Volpe14 »

The Four Kingdoms


11 Town Monarchists

4 Mafia Monarchists


The game phases always consist of Day, Twilight and Night.

On days there's always a standard lynch by majority.

On Odd-number Twilight, a
Commander
is chosen by majority votes. The Commander during the night following their twilight election will select one player to nightkill. Only during Night 1, the Commander is bulletproof and an invalid target for mafia factional kill.

On Even-number Twilight, a
Monarch
is chosen by majority votes. The elected Monarch, if town, turns into an
Deathproof Innocent Child
. If mafia, leaves the game. Regardless of alignment, an elected Monarch isn't a valid option in lynches or nightkills.

On Nights, mafia must compulsively choose a valid factional nightkill target, and if there's a elected commander, he also must compulsively choose a valid kill. Failure to do so will randomize the targets.

Once an mafioso is
lynched
, they must in their private topics compulsively elect a
Mafia Duke
, that if
lynched
causes town to immediately win the game. While also electing one
Mafia Duke Backup
, that will succeed the Duke title if the original Duke is elected as a monarch. One elected
Mafia Duke
is also revealed to have been the Duke before election, but the
Mafia Duke Backup
isn't revealed as a Duke Backup if lynched or elected.

Once an Town Monarch is elected, during the night following their election they must compulsively select two players as
Knights
. The two chosen Knights will be added into a Neighborhood with the chooser Town Monarch in it by the start of the next day phase. The Knighted players will not suffer a change in their original roles.

Town wins the game if they either: elect 3 Townies as Monarchs, kill 3 Mafiosos by any means or lynch the Mafia Duke. (Mafioso leaving isn't considered as killed for this win con purpose).

Mafia wins the game if they either: elect 2 Mafiosos as Monarchs or reach parity with town.

One mafioso can't target another mafioso with their
factional nightkill
. However, this doesn't apply to a mafioso elected Commander, that is able to nightkill partners with the Commander's ability .

Anything failing to reach majority decision will be decided by plurality or randomized, depending on the case.

Regardless, no one can self-target their abilities.
Last edited by Volpe14 on Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:46 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:28 am

Post by Volpe14 »

Notes:

1) I considered removing the Commander gimmick and in Odd-number Twilight the second day phase being another standard majority lynch, but I thought it was a bit less novelty than the Commander idea.

2) The flavor is that the Old King died, and the Kingdom is being divided in four smaller ones, while mafia intends to overtake all of the domains by force. Doesn't matter how it's run, there will at maximum be four monarch elections, and the reason that mafia loses with 3 mafiosos dead is because they could only ever take one kingdom and therefore are bound to lose.

3) Yes...it's a double day setup rather than a double lynch. I'll give in to RC, maybe it's stingy to gate town information with double lynches. It's also harder to do something different with double lynches. It makes sometimes more confusing setups.

4) I'm still wondering whether to remove the Duke/Flag Bearer mechanic or not. I think it would be simpler to remove it but I wonder if it's scum sided if I do so. I think winning by two mafioso elections is a good power up for mafia and the duke mechanic tries to make up for that for town. It also makes insane-levels of busing less likely?
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:40 am

Post by Volpe14 »

I'm still supporting a dance game for what it's worth.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:07 am

Post by popsofctown »

15p dance12
Vanilla Townies

3
Mafia Goons


Day Zero, there is a single lynch. Night Zero, the mafia equally divides all the players in the game into ladies and gentleman.

Starting with Day One, a lady may post a bolded proposal to a gentleman for him to dance with her. If the gentleman bolds an acceptance, the two players become lovers and receive a PT. During Day One, players can't vote or be voted unless they are lovers.
There are three lynches each day. At night, the mafia kill one lover, and may additionally kill any number of players who are not lovers. The first four players to become lovers are immune to the nightkill.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:43 pm

Post by Ircher »

Mafia Exam

15 Players: 11 Town, 4 Mafia

Daytalk is allowed and standard lynch and night kill mechanics apply
with the exception that "No Lynch" is not a valid vote.
Added in version 2.0.

Each night, every town player must submit a list to the mod of who they believe is scum. Players may include as many names as they like (including all of them), but they must include at least as many names as there are scum remaining. At the start of the following day, each player will receive back a percentage from the moderator indicating how accurate their guess was. The person who scores highest is rendered bulletproof the following night; however, if there is a tie for highest, no one becomes bulletproof.

For instance, suppose the remaining players are Alex, Bob, Charles, Diana, Esther, Fiona, and Giles. Of those seven players, Alex and Fiona are scum. Suppose Bob guesses that Alex, Diana, and Esther are scum. Then Bob will receive "33% correct" back at daybreak since 1/3 of his guesses is correct.
Deleted in version 2.0.

At the end of each day until only one scum remains, every town player will receive a pm from the moderator noting the percentage of their votes that were on scum during the day. The town player(s) with the lowest percentage die at the end of the night while the town player(s) with the highest percentage are rendered bulletproof that night. (Note that voting the same person twice in a row does not count. If Alex, Bob, Charles, Diana, and Esther are playing and Alex and Bob are scum and Charles votes Alex --> Diana --> Alex --> Alex --> Diana, then Charles should get back 50% since the fourth vote shouldn't be counted.) Added in version 2.0
---
Maybe this setup is too swingy, but I think it leads to an interesting game. I don't think there is a breaking strategy as scum can fakeclaim even if someone receives 100% back. I could also drop the bulletproof reward for being the most accurate.

Edit: Changed it to be based on votes since flips broke the previous version of the setup. The elimination of the player(s) with the lowest percentage disincentives people from voting only a few times. This also reduces the odds of someone receiving 100%.
Last edited by Ircher on Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:48 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

yeah, getting 0% or 100% is really busted
time will end
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:56 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

It wouldn't surprise me if Mafia Exam had a 100% breaking strategy, perhaps one that's possible even if half the players don't stick to it.

The basic idea is to change your vote a huge number of times (probably in the tens of thousands range) until every possible scumteam gives you a different percentage. Then if you survive the night, you'll know the whole scumteam.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:27 am

Post by gobbledygook »

Next Stop11:4

24 hour Pre-game phase where the mafia team select two teammates to be
Consigliere
and
Godfather
.
-
Consigliere
Day 1 Neighborhood will be revealed to contain Consigliere
-
Godfather
last mafia allowed to leave, mafia immediately lose if Godfather is lynched

Day 1 will be 14 days, broken up into two 7-day sections
- 1st 7-day section game will broken up into 5 3-person neighborhoods. Neighborhoods are completely random except that Consigliere must be with two townies
- At the end of this 7-day section, the Consigliere's neighborhood will be revealed. This neighborhood will also be revealed as containing the Consigliere
- 2nd 7-day section is a regular day ending with a lynch

If mafia lynched Day 1, mafia get 2 nightkills on N1. Start to leave on N2
If town lynched Day 1, mafia get 1 nightkill on N1 and 1 leave on N1.

No lynches are not allowed, if a majority has not been reached at any point in the day phase, the day will end with plurality lynch.
Mafia can leave every other night. Therefore, if Mafia are lynched Day 1, they will be able to leave N2, N4, N6. If town are lynched Day 1, they can leave N1, N3, N5.

Wincondition for mafia is Godfather must leave, or nothing can prevent the same.
Wincondition for town is lynch two mafia, or lynch the Godfather.


I like the fact that mafia have a lot of choice in how to play this game starting in pre-game. I also like how this messes with the race to the bottom that we commonly see in games like the Flags and other mostly vanilla games.

I have no idea if this is balanced, but I think we should probably aim for something that is 30-40% winnable for town seeing as the Team Mafia mechanic is inherently townsided.
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:37 am

Post by popsofctown »

Let's not run a team mafia setup where tons of teams win or lose as a consequence of a scumslip from 1 player that was on 1 team
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:26 am

Post by popsofctown »

Look like fewer submissions are coming in and it's getting to be about which setup is best.

Excluding mine for intuitive reasons:
The "visible normal queue" setups I like the best are RC, Alisae, and Klick's.
The "paradigm shift" setups I like the best are Volpe, NK15's, and OkaPoka's.
Those setups seem balanced, minimally monopolized by any one slot, interesting, sufficiently low swing, in my amateur estimation.
Among the normals, RC's is particularly appealing to me because it uses the fewest power roles which means massclaim should occur later.
Among the paradigm shifts, NK15 is most appealing to me because Volpe's setup has a tolerable amount of all-star dynamic and OkaPoka's might come out surprisingly scumsided with the potential power of redistricting.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:28 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Mine wasn't out on the spoiler list so im assuming it was rejected
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:30 am

Post by popsofctown »

I'm assuming Micc was skimming for area tags and just missed it.

At worst he was waiting for S_S to resubmit it with the named townie machofied which I agree is strictly better and Micc wanted to ensure S_S stole thunder that way.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:56 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

O

Ok SS can steal thunder, I agree with machoification anyway
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:06 am

Post by Something_Smart »

RC's Thunder
3 Mafia Goons

Town Odd-Night Cop
Town Jailkeeper
Macho Townie
9 Vanilla Townies
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:13 am

Post by OkaPoka »

my setup is def scumsided as i think nightless games are "50/50" at 1 scum :3 town odds (i think)

and 4 v 11 leans towards scum sided ness

and they get a conditional nightkill

and they get redistricting

idk if the info gained from town is enough to outweight this potential scumsidedness on paper in a team mafia setting
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:10 am

Post by popsofctown »

S_S wow that's a really well designed setup you came up with!

I love it.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:13 pm

Post by Micc »

Sorry, I've now added RC's setup to the opening post. Let me know if I missed anything else while scanning through the thread.
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:21 pm

Post by Alisae »

In post 144, Micc wrote:Sorry, I've now added RC's setup to the opening post. Let me know if I missed anything else while scanning through the thread.
for my setup since you have the 17p version up
-1 VT
-1 Goon
GTKAS
| here.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:29 pm

Post by Micc »

Edited that change into the OP.
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:07 am

Post by Farkran »

Hello, decided to try this because it sounded fun while i was thinking about it

YOU SHALL NOT ACT
2 Mafia Multitasking Roleblocker
1 Mafia JOAT (Roleblocker, Rolestopper, Rolecop, Tracker) all 1-shot

1 Town Roleblocker
1 Town Doctor
1 Town Vanilla Cop
1 Town Fruit Vendor
1 Universal Backup
7 Vanilla Townies

Mafia has Daytalk
Mafia roleblock take precedence over Town roleblock
Mafia rolestop does not block kills

Heavily PR loaded setup to encourage PR hunting by scum and nk/rb dodging by town. Massclaim is very dangerous.
Farkran is back poggers
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:24 am

Post by callforjudgement »

I don't think massclaim is dangerous here (although you might want to delay it until day 2). The idea is to not rely on the roles at all and just use the town power roles as though they were named townies; that gives you a huge advantage because they're either counterclaimed (giving you a 1v1), or not counterclaimed (giving you an Innocent Child).
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:38 pm

Post by popsofctown »

I think You Shall Not Act looks like it has a claiming strategy but is only slightly townsided or maybe even o.k. after executing it.

With wide disparity in power ranging from Vanilla Cop to Fruit Vendor you probably massclaim "vanilla" or "not vanilla" day 2, I think
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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