Mini Theme 2105: Assassins Mafia (Game Over!)

[NaCl]

VOTE: Tris
Wizards>Pirates

[NaCl]

VOTE: Pine

You feel like you took that joke a bit too seriously. (I'm pretty sure Tris was joking, anyways)

[NaCl]

Hey, Pine, why do you think that post by Tris is scummy?

I saw it as an obvious joke, so I don't know why you took it as anything else.

[NaCl]

If it were a joke, why hesitate? That self-consciousness rings false to me. Town doesn’t need to be inhibited during RVS, so the FOSes are super weird

That is a fair point. Tris, what was the point in FOSing me, rather than voting me instead?

If it were a joke, why hesitate? That self-consciousness rings false to me. Town doesn’t need to be inhibited during RVS, so the FOSes are super weird

It might be a playstyle thing for tris. I need to see if she does this sort of thing in other other games. Thoughts on Princess Pops?

- OS

I'm kind of confused as to why you'd say that before checking.

Why an unvote there

She's thinks I'm the scummiest slot in the game, but doesn't want to put me at L-she hasn't counted.
Retaining an RVS vote doesn't reflect that stance.
I think that's a townie position.
See how I told you I can get reads this way
see
I'm not drinking sake btw
but I should look into where I could buy that

Please don't answer for others
I'm only going to warn you once.

^likely Town. Not just for this, but mostly this.

Is it controversial to call Oversoul town? Because I say Oversoul is town

Someone fite me

Yeah, you wanna fight? More seriously, though, I feel a bit uneasy about DNS, I'm not seeing him as town. Could you explain what you see that's town-motivated?

I do not like this. VOTE: DNS

Reading further, it sounds like this is what Oversoul is like maybe? Is it common for him to be like this?

I'll move my vote back to VOTE: Pine. I don't understand his scumread on me.

pops seems a little towny.

Tris, I don't think you were like this in Haunted Village. What's the point of moving your vote there and then back in the same post?

[NaCl]

If it were a joke, why hesitate? That self-consciousness rings false to me. Town doesn’t need to be inhibited during RVS, so the FOSes are super weird

That is a fair point. Tris, what was the point in FOSing me, rather than voting me instead?

I was already voting someone.

I do not like this. VOTE: DNS

Reading further, it sounds like this is what Oversoul is like maybe? Is it common for him to be like this?

I'll move my vote back to VOTE: Pine. I don't understand his scumread on me.

pops seems a little towny.

Tris, I don't think you were like this in Haunted Village. What's the point of moving your vote there and then back in the same post?

I already answered this. I composed the post as I read the game. So, at that point, I wanted to vote for DNS, but as i read further (indicated by the "reading further") I changed my mind and decided to move my vote back to Pine. I could have just removed the DNS vote, but I wanted to communicate how my thoughts changed as i read.

How would you say i'm different, and do you think it means i'm scum?

Was it that important that you kept your vote where it was, though?

As for how you're different, you felt a bit more directly confrontational early on in Haunted Village. I don't really have a read on you yet.

[NaCl]

it wasn't important because it was rvs, but I wanted to keep it there.

Yeah, but I want to know why you wanted to keep it there.

Anyway salty talk to me about DNS.

I'm mostly kind of confused by them. I've never played with either head, so I don't know if lying is their thing. But I'm suspicious of them saying that they can confirm themselves town. Because it's like, why would someone who can actually do it say that? Regardless, I don't actually care about pressing them on it.

Also, I just noticed this now, but they're in a neighbourhood? And confirmed town?

I'm not entirely sure if them/Pine is TvT or TvS, but it doesn't feel like SvS to me, and sorting this is probably important. The thing is I'm not really that big of a fan of either of them right now.

[NaCl]

Assassin mech is actually related to our confirming mechanic, so while I agree in principle, in our particular case I think it’s pro-town.

Ugh, not a fan of this.

If you can't actually confirm yourself right now, but might be able to later, what was the point in saying you could confirm yourself town?

[NaCl]

Assassin mech is actually related to our confirming mechanic, so while I agree in principle, in our particular case I think it’s pro-town.

Ugh, not a fan of this.

If you can't actually confirm yourself right now, but might be able to later, what was the point in saying you could confirm yourself town?

Actually, never mind. I'm pretty sure that's also fake, then.

[NaCl]

Assassin mech is actually related to our confirming mechanic, so while I agree in principle, in our particular case I think it’s pro-town.

Ugh, not a fan of this.

If you can't actually confirm yourself right now, but might be able to later, what was the point in saying you could confirm yourself town?

Actually, never mind. I'm pretty sure that's also fake, then.

No, I think your misinterpreting it. Whether or not we successfully kill our assassin target is not how we can confirm ourselves. However, why we are confirmed town and how we can do it is tangentially related to the assassin mechanic itself.

- OS

Well, I'm either really misinterpreting you or you're probably lying. But whatever. If it happens it happens. In any case, I don't want to be some idiot who accidentally reveals useful information--or gets baited by scum into falling for something, so let's just drop it.

Most of DNS's defence has felt genuinely awful, being mostly OMGUS and wine without any real substance beyond "You guys are wrong because I'm town and I can prove it during the day even with only two votes on me". It's been really bad and seems like an extreme overreaction to just putting two votes down, so back on I go.

It's awful sure
But is it scummy?

"I can prove myself as locktown in the day" as what appears to be a first line of defence feels like panicked scum, especially with one of the heads' admittance of "not being good at scum". Definitely feels like the best lead so far.

I'm kind of doubtful on this, though. This feels a bit of an overly confident read on that part of them.

LA, what do you think of Pine?

[NaCl]

Sorry about things, I'd been busy yesterday.

Also, most of the people I care most about sorting aren't really here, so that also is inconvenient.

Well, bitbringer, care to respond (in case you missed my 165)?

Anyways, DNS, questions for you, since you seem to be the only one around that I'm interested in.

Why did you unvote Pine earlier? And are you scumreading tris? Also, what was the point of saying that you can confirm yourself town and claiming you had a neighbourhood so early?

I kind of think this is town tris, but I've really only played one game with her, so I'll have to look more into her scum games.

[NaCl]

@unwnd
Why is pops your strongest townread?
And why is Lady Angel on the higher side of null?

[NaCl]

And why is Lady Angel on the higher side of null?

From memory, nothing that stood out to be scummy but also not towny, but inoffensive in a way that I didn't think further about her posts. With Weh/Dunn their nullness could have more of an underbelly, but not enough where I'd put them any lower where they are. Abu/Suji needed a spot to be and they got below Weh/Dunn probably due to my personal bias towards Weh/Dunn seeing how I said I could expect them to have some goal towards being null lol

Huh, I dislike her reason for voting DNS, I don't think it really makes sense. She's also not really commented on Pine beyond subtly calling him not-scummy.


As for pops, I guess she's alright, but a fair bit of the stuff she's saying feels like it's going over my head. I think GIF is townier, though, although it probably doesn't matter much.

[NaCl]

As for pops, I guess she's alright, but a fair bit of the stuff she's saying feels like it's going over my head. I think GIF is townier, though, although it probably doesn't matter much.

Then ask me to explain it. I don't know what it is that's "going over your head" as I don't remember using twenty letter words in this thread, but whatever it is, I can't imagine asking about it is even more useless than asking unwnd to justify a nullread on a poster who's hardly posted. [If you want to set up a context to attack a slot again skip the "ask someone about their nullread" charade and just do so ( or just claim "Lady Angel is my assassination target" that's cool )]

"I'm nullreading pops"
Has got to be the most uncommon problem I experience in my mafia career.
For reasons you will probably figure out once you have more than 0.1 games with me
Likely before 1.0
Still not a problem I'm interested in having.
Presumably I'm "not interesting to sort" if DNS is the only slot you're "interested in sorting"
What's it gonna take to interest you
I have sugar
I hear that's not your drug of choice tho

It's not that I'm not only interested in sorting DNS, but he's the only one who was actively posting. The rest of the people I'm most interested in haven't been posting in a while.

As for not understanding you, that's more to do with your history with DNS's heads, and I don't really want to look through a bunch of different games for each of you to try and understand your meta, so I can't really verify which of you is right or wrong. I don't think really explaining it is the issue, it's more that it doesn't convince me one way or another and I don't think I will put in the effort to verify it. On a smaller note, I don't understand pretty much anything you put in spoilers.

As for unwnd, it's not just that it's a null read, but he's scumreading a lot of people (idk what bitbringer has really done to earn it, mostly), and LA is his 4th read from the top. So it's not just that it's a null read, it's that it's a null read in a weird place. I don't know how common it is in general, but I tend to try and put my scum partners as weak townreads or high null reads if I think I can get away with it. So that's why I'm kind of suspicious. But I feel like LA has got a lot of interactions that could be S/S (although with way too many people), and I want to hear from her to see and get a stronger opinion on my currently weak-feeling pings.
Speaking of which, VOTE: LA.

[NaCl]

The misquote is obviously immaterial to the point I was making. I'm obviously very active

Okay, sure. But previously, I wasn't finding you as important to deal with as opposed to some other people.

I don't know how common it is in general, but I tend to try and put my scum partners as weak townreads or high null reads if I think I can get away with it.

Is your join date when you started playing forum mafia? Because this sounds sophomoric.
Is this why you're voting LA instead of unwnd when all the reasoning in your recent post would point to "unwnd, and maybe LA as a partner"?
Particularly when LA is way more townie so far
VOTE: nacl

I've played a little on another forum, but that's been 5+ years ago.
I know that that specific post made unwnd look worse, but as I said earlier, I find that LA has had suspicious interactions with a few people. Although maybe you don't care about asking about that, or trying to find out.

It's not only or even mainly a preflip assoc inference

If I see a 3 monther saying "your wincon when you roll scum is to nullread everyone, btw cool kids cut class and wear whatever sneakers the famous basketball players endorse", and the last three stances I can remember from that person are weak and pivotable I am happy to swallow Occam's razor and believe they play Associated Press/Reuters scum strats and then the weak reads being organic vs. fake is at least as good at 50/50

That's not what I meant. Rather, I mean that if I can get away with it, I tend to try to do that early on, as it creates a kind of group consensus away from those people, barring them doing anything particularily scummy. I'd rather keep the pressure off them rather than interact and risk getting caught.

LA is obvtown

Thank you for convincing me.

[NaCl]

You seem quite hung up on my unvoting what was very obviously a joke vote...

It had nothing to do with your joke vote nor the unvote actually. It had to do with literally everything except them, in fact.

The post I was talking about in that post reeked of wine, which is generally going to be enough to get me to look at you, but probably not vote until we can sort out the wine first.

aka the cowerdice. Why not vote her to sort that wine out yourself?

Why should I seriously vote four pages in? I know nothing of her except what I've seen for a few pages, so to me it's more worth waiting to see how someone acts normally to establish a baseline before applying any pressure when confronted with a player I don't know.

As an aside, past the wine I don't find pops particularly scummy.

Most of DNS's defence has felt genuinely awful, being mostly OMGUS and wine without any real substance beyond "You guys are wrong because I'm town and I can prove it during the day even with only two votes on me". It's been really bad and seems like an extreme overreaction to just putting two votes down, so back on I go.

It's awful sure
But is it scummy?

"I can prove myself as locktown in the day" as what appears to be a first line of defence feels like panicked scum, especially with one of the heads' admittance of "not being good at scum". Definitely feels like the best lead so far.

The bolded part feels highly exaggerated, if not fake. I'm not convinced that town!LA immediately jumps to the conclusion that Oversoul is not only scum, but "panicked scum" that concocted a story about being able to confirm that our slot is town in response to us getting 2/7 votes. Finding Oversoul's response scummy is one thing, but her framing Oversoul's posts as "panicked scum" feels forced/exaggerated. There is no reason for scum!Oversoul to "panic" over receiving 2/7 votes, and there is no consideration on her part that Oversoul said what he said simply because we are town and can prove as much through our role and the neighborhood.

- Volxen (Definitely Town)

This is the part that worried me as well, I was just having trouble putting it into words. When I saw DNS claiming they could confirm themselves as town, I thought it was either a reaction test, a gambit, or actually true. Like, sure, it's something that scum could do and try to play it off later. However, I don't think that attempting to ascribe some sort of emotional motivation is something that I can see from it.

DNS (well, Oversoul), how much mafia have you played with LA before this game?

Also, oops, I don't know how I got Pine and tris mixed up.


On another note, if LA is mafia, Pops is as well.

[NaCl]

Not Abu humaid or LA because their lack of content is they haven't read everything.

LA is obvtown

How do you hold these views at the same time?

Literally all you're saying in regards to LA is "she's so town" without providing a single reason. And you don't seem to care about my reasons at all, because if you did, you would have asked me.

Explain why she's so obviously town beyond just calling people's cases bad.

[NaCl]

[img]Bikes%20https://imgur.com/gallery/fKfzYNd[/img] My country brain can't figure out whether this is capitalism or socialism. Please send help

Spoiler:

Are they free?

Socialism is when you get free stuff. The more free stuff you get, the more socialist it is.

Spoiler:

Vote: Definitely Not Scum

The name compels me.

I haven't seen anything particularly scummy these few pages in but post #53 bothers me a little.

RVS ends when you have a read that feels real

kind of like
my rights end
where your rights begin
i'm not touching you
i'm not touching you
you know

you should vote me

That's the thing, though. 53 and this makes me feel like you want to be voted, which naturally makes me a little worried about actually voting you because due to the amount of wine involved in something like this, so I'd rather hold off until things develop a bit more.

That being said, UNVOTE:

What looks good for scum in this position? I'm assuming la has played a game or two since her queue post suggested it. This post is such blatantly bad image control I don't expect it to flip scum. My pizza is too hot to eat yet but it looks so good. This root beer is choice though. Scum!LA either votes a different thing so her vote is "occupied", or accepts my invitation. When have you ever found scum because someone voted a selfvoter? I didn't literally selfvoter, but figuratively did. It's so safe to vote me there.

If she was scum she'd have to be traitor in terms of how u survivalist it is. Un

I don't see why her not voting you makes her town. If she was scum, why is she unable to just...not do the exact same thing? I don't see this as alignment indicative at all. Like, what is the scum motivation for voting you? To keep her vote somewhere for a while? I don't see how voting you at the time would benefit scum.

Spoiler:

Vote: Definitely Not Scum

The name compels me.

I haven't seen anything particularly scummy these few pages in but post #53 bothers me a little.

Vote: Definitely Not Scum

The name compels me.

I haven't seen anything particularly scummy these few pages in but post #53 bothers me a little.

RVS ends when you have a read that feels real

kind of like
my rights end
where your rights begin
i'm not touching you
i'm not touching you
you know

you should vote me

That's the thing, though. 53 and this makes me feel like you want to be voted, which naturally makes me a little worried about actually voting you because due to the amount of wine involved in something like this, so I'd rather hold off until things develop a bit more.

That being said, UNVOTE:

Hmm I detect cowardice.

You seem quite hung up on my unvoting what was very obviously a joke vote...

The post I was talking about in that post reeked of wine, which is generally going to be enough to get me to look at you, but probably not vote until we can sort out the wine first.

Most of DNS's defence has felt genuinely awful, being mostly OMGUS and wine without any real substance beyond "You guys are wrong because I'm town and I can prove it during the day even with only two votes on me". It's been really bad and seems like an extreme overreaction to just putting two votes down, so back on I go.

VOTE: DefinitelyNotScum

This one stays until they come up with a good defence.

As an aside, I have both work and a class on mondays, so I probably won't be around again for the remainder of the day.

It's very circumstantially town indicative for a player to push someone who sorted fn et cetera. Scum know the soft will be real and that it'd be wasted effort, town don't know that it's not lying scum. Also the general goal is dns to spew themselves independent of a mech claim which seems town motivated. I might find that especially important after the fak mech clear in magical girls but still

Why would scum know the soft would be real or not? I thought DNS was just a liar, regardless of alignment. You don't have to be scum to lie, I do it on occasion.

Also, why am I scum for voting LA? Your argument is that she's super obviously town, but none of her actions are screaming town to me, or anyone else by the looks of it.

Also, oops, I don't know how I got Pine and tris mixed up.

what? when did that happen?

On another note, if LA is mafia, Pops is as well.

i don't think this is the case

The mixup was with DNS. I don't remember how it happened anymore, but for some reason I thought they voted for Pine when it was actually for you...or something.

For the second point, her entire case is just hard-defending LA and calling her obvtown, when I don't really agree. And the defenses she's given aren't even that strong, I don't see how anyone can look at LA and say she was super town after that. Pops's position feels too strong relative to the evidence.

[NaCl]

It's in my iso bitbringer

You pay to rent the Citi bikes

I had a big argument with my cousin over her calling that "public transportation". I argued therefore leasing a car is public transportation.

Doesn't it depend on who's renting them out? If it's the government, it's public transportation, if it's a private company, it's you know, not.

[NaCl]

Feels slow to me. Although I'm not really that into this game right now yet.

And both Pine and LA aren't posting to the point of maybe getting replaced.

[NaCl]

VOTE: Bitbringer

I'll stop vanity wagoning for a beautiful soul who sided with me on an argument about bikes

I don't really like this, but ehhh whatever. It's not so much the unvote as it is the forced reason.

@bitbringer could you explain your townread on me more?

Tris, why does it feel like you don't want to be townread? Are you 3rd party?

I'm alive.

If the argument for the bikes not being public transportation is that you have to pay for them, what would that make buses?

I would guess that there's at least one scum in Bitbringer/Tris/Shadoweh, with tris being the least likely, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about telling it yet.

Lady Angel, could you respond to 226?


Regarding the bitbringer wagon, could someone explain what they see there? To me, it seems like bitbringer has done a lot not really saying much, although I don't see anything that super jumps out as scummy.

[NaCl]

Okay, catching up now.

Huh, don't know why bitbringer isn't townreading DNS, I have a kinda-townread on them.

447 is scummy.

@bitbringer could you explain your townread on me more?

Tris, why does it feel like you don't want to be townread? Are you 3rd party?

sorry, i keep postponing putting effort into this game

Regarding the bitbringer wagon, could someone explain what they see there? To me, it seems like bitbringer has done a lot not really saying much, although I don't see anything that super jumps out as scummy.

in my case, i don't like the way he's townreading me.

but, that's apparently not the head who's here right now.

actually

I was seriously asking, though. And you seem to be putting in more effort than quite a few people (I'm certainly on that list).

Although I don't know how people around here would react to a benign 3rd party, so whatever.

in my case, i don't like the way he's townreading me. but, that's apparently not the head who's here right now.actually

Who were you responding to in this quote? That quote you quoted seems to be very buddy-that-needs-a-way-onto-the-wagon-esque.

- OS

That was me who asked the question.


bitbringer feels like scum flailing.

I don't really care for the whole semantics argument.

sheepsaysmeep replaces Pine please give him a warm welcome or I'll mod kill you all <3

Hello, Sheep!

I'm liking your posts more than Pine's but it took me like 3 minutes to understand 516.

Have you played with pops before, Sheep? How much?

Please don't park your vote on a vanity wagon, there's not much time left. I don't really have any motivation to lynch Tris, she's a pretty weak town read for me and there are far scummier people.

I have some bad news, my favorite character is Nagito

And he's the worst in DR2 so it's kinda telling tbh.

Spoiler:

REEEEEEEEEE

Sheep, how do you have a strong read on Tris? I feel like Tris is one of my weaker reads right now (well, among people with more posts than the mod).

Y'all should stop that pointless bickering and put yer vote where it matters, i.e. to LA.

Eh... I'm thinking bitbringer is scummier right now, and it's a more constructive lynch.

Who the fuck has "strong" reads on Day 1 at 24 pages? At best they should be adequate reads unless you peg all scum on D1.

I have strong reads. Not too many, but I have a few (I also have a history of being wrong, but ignore that). Why do you expect people not to have strong reads?

Oh by the way bitbringer wagon is 90% from assassination.

I highly doubt that. Unless I'm mistaken in the assassination mechanic?

@MariaR, does each person have exactly one assassin after them, or is that not guaranteed?

GIF, your list looks like you're townreading anyone who posts.

And now bitbringer's voting LA...but no, I shouldn't stay there.

DNS, I didn't really read your wall because I go more off feelings when I can't focus, but my feelings are that you're town and bitbringer is scum. I kind of want LA still, but VOTE: bitbringer

Pops??? Like, put a case on me or something because not putting a case on me with only a few days left is just parking your vote on a wagon that won't get through and not town.

Actually, I'm down to lynch pops for this.

[NaCl]

I was kind of reading and typing as I went post by post, I probably should have cleaned things up.

[NaCl]

Firebringer can you answer me?

Salt we have 3 days left.

And there's a big difference between being someone like iconeum and vanity wagoning and milking the prod timer repeatedly versus checking the vote state every 16 hours even vla

I can do what I want and it won't trigger a no lynch

I'm not saying it will trigger a no lynch. I'm saying you voting me without giving a reason is not trying to push for my lynch, and also that it's avoiding you to have to deal with considering voting for LA or bitbringer.

[NaCl]

Have you played with pops before, Sheep? How much?

never before idt so i dont have any meta info im going off of

my predecessor seemed to have a + thought about them meta-wise and i trust it tho

can you takl to me about your dns v read

If you've never played with pops before, why do you like her over her short bursts of posts? I haven't played with her before either, but this feels like it's some kind of meta-read.

As for DNS, I just feel kind of confident that they're town who likes lying (Although I'm probably a bit biased, as I lie as town and play defensively as scum). Their whole gimmick was LAMIST, but at the same time, they've been generally trying to sort people and providing good reasons for their reads. I also tend to agree with them for the most part on reads. Also, I think walls are townie.


Regarding Sugimichi, it's a low information lynch, and if we're going for a low information lynch, I'd rather that be LA.

[NaCl]

i really like tse's entrance into the thread in terms of confidence/how immediately they start solving

And you're not going to comment on the fact that he's both townreading and scumreading your slot?

Also, VOTE: TSE

I agree with his thing about the 1 scum in the neighbourhood (leaning towards pops), but I think it's really obvious that that is likely.

Also, I don't agree with most of his reads, mostly unwnd. I just don't see why that jumps out to him as scummy. Also, what has made you think pine is town, TSE? Same for dunnstral, really.

I do agree with the fact that TSE feels too certain on his reads, but it's more that it's relative to the evidence. Like the cases on sheep and unwnd feel really weak, and not explaining townreads is also pretty suspicious. Plus it makes the LA slot higher info.


Also thanks for voting me again and not making a case, pops.

[NaCl]

@TSE
Because pops had a weird chainsaw defense of LA that involved calling my case bad, ignoring LA's scummy points, and then proceeding to vanity wagon me on and off without ever putting a case on me.

And you realize that pine and sheep are the same slot, right?

[NaCl]

Neighbour*

the hood is pops dunn dns right?

dns if there is one though i wouldnt argue him wolf just because of his being in a neighborhood of others i villa read

I think it's highly likely there's a scum in there. Because otherwise that means there's 3 "masons" who can all get upgrades. Unless there's some weird mechanic where they're targeting each other in a circle or something like that.

oh no the deadline for this game is even longer now
I am not the scum cutie sorry Your username is tres appropriate though

VOTE: unwnd

Shadoweh, can you talk to me about what you're feeling? I haven't really gotten any impression on your posts up until this--why vote unwnd?

Sheep/TSE prob isn't a thing, I am very open to the idea of one though. I don't think TSE/Sheep/Bitbringer will

ever

be a thing but again you have a lot of people TRing sheep and then TSE seems like he'd give up a fight. Bitbringer essentially rolled over and I don't see why we wouldn't give him what he was supposedly wanting if I read it corrrectly.

Any chance you'd join on TSE? Because LA was already scummy enough, and with TSE around I think this lynch will yield more information, even if he's town.

I am pming MariaR to ask if it is ok if I play to the wincon of "Shadoweh unlyncher" instead of the one in my role PM.
But until she says that's ok that's probably the slot I should be on.

You all can wake up anytime about NaCl though.
NaCl next time you complain I didn't re-case you
Quote posts from my beautiful iso to re-case yourself
It would be protown

Whatever.

RN I can’t quite pin point the scum team.
All I see is Unwnd and Pop.

TSE, is there anything else you see from unwnd besides that one post? Because I feel like unwnd's done quite a bit that demonstrates a town mindset, so I'm wondering if you're just not seeing that or not believing that.

Oh, I guess you guys are serious. You should probably stop voting me, I'm pretty sure I'm this game's version of a cop since I cop people's targets and get an upgrade.

I'm kind of bothered by this because it doesn't feel like a role that benefits town very much.

[NaCl]

Pops when do we tell them?

Oh...if this is what I think, then TSE is town, I think? Or certainly not scum with any of you 3.

[NaCl]

Creature's posting was lackluster, and he's yet to attribute something that makes me townread him

All in favor?

Why would you go for this now, when you were against low-information lynches earlier? From what I've seen from Creature, yeah, the posting was meh, but I don't think that this lynch would really be that beneficial.

It probably helps to know who is trying to lynch because they want a role and who is trying to lynch for no eventual discernable reason. Do you have a particular reason to think scum benefits from knowing people's targets either?

Town benefits:
Check someone fakeclaiming target (if they survive the punishment, even)
Try to identify if someone is on the wagon for a bad reason related to their target

Scum benefits:
Manipulate the NK to deny powers to the people they can't/won't kill
Persuade townies who might be on the fence for lynching their specific target
Identify who's been upgraded so they can target them

I think it benefits scum, but at the same time, if this is your actual role, it feels like it benefits scum so much more than town that you'd just...make up something else, or not claim at all so soon.

But in either case, I'm not sure that this role would even upgrade to a Cop. Because I'm not sure on this, but it feels like the goal of checking someone's target is irrelevant to finding out their alignment, and the upgrade would make your previous power even more useless? Which is possible, but I don't think it's likely.

sheepsaysmeep(31) - Creature

Huh, a 30x voter (I've heard MariaR doesn't make mistakes).

Anyways, we need to get a lynch, and I'd prefer to have a bit more time on the clock before the lynch hits. There was something I wanted to discuss, but I don't want to bring it up until L-1 because I don't want to distract from the lynch. I still don't like TSE although I think he's a bit townier at this point (although I still think he should be lynched). Shadoweh/Bitbringer is okay.

[NaCl]

Why would you go for this now, when you were against low-information lynches earlier? From what I've seen from Creature, yeah, the posting was meh, but I don't think that this lynch would really be that beneficial.

I dunno why you're ignoring what proceeded that? Who I would lynch is all there to gander in #93

I mean, yeah, but at the same time I don't know why it would be that useful. Because it seems to contradict some of your thinking earlier. So 933 didn't really explain things for me.

Shadoweh, what is your flavor for your assassin? Judging by our assassin, flavor does not actually mean anything. But I'm curious.

- OS

I honestly want you to stop asking me for every last detail of my role.

...? Or you could be lynched?

- OS

DNS, do you think that she's hiding anything about her role? Because it really seems pretty straightforward to me.

If TP is you asking for a doc I wouldn't worry about it, no one is ever going to try to kill you mate
What do you think a Mafia Cop does exactly?

VOTE: bitbringer

I townread Shadow because this

Why is this town-indicative?


Also, on a side-note, can people please stop referring to Shadoweh as a cop? That role is not even remotely like a cop, Although if you're mafia, feel free to think she is.

As for lynches, I'm less sure of TSE because I think any scum-partners would have told him to shut up. Although I'm not sure if he'd have listened.
Bitbringer is still decent with me. I don't like Shadoweh's role, but I think she's been okay about the process and I don't see scum claiming it openly.

[NaCl]

I could vote Abu if that's a plausible lynch but I literally have nothing on him and I don't think it will be a productive lynch if it's wrong.

[NaCl]

VOTE: Bitbringer

He really doesn't feel like he's doing anything to convince us he's town right now.

If he does flip scum, we should look at the other wagons that had been popping up around and trying to get off the ground, it was likely trying to slip out and let the wagon collapse.

Neighbour*

the hood is pops dunn dns right?

dns if there is one though i wouldnt argue him wolf just because of his being in a neighborhood of others i villa read

I think it's highly likely there's a scum in there. Because otherwise that means there's 3 "masons" who can all get upgrades. Unless there's some weird mechanic where they're targeting each other in a circle or something like that.

it's not really a masonry if they don't know each other are town.

Yes, but if they all trust each other and are actually town, then they effectively have the same power as a masonry, which seems imbalanced. In a previous game I played with MariaR, I was part of a neighbourhood with a town cop where I managed to claim their results and eat the NK for them, and in the post-game discussion, the mod agreed that there was too much town power from that. So I don't think MariaR would include a neighbourhood with potentially 3 power roles that are all town.

i can't lynch tris while bitmap is alive because tris is a lover of pizza who is pure in her heart and would take me out for pizza if she took me out for food at all and bitmap led me to burgers which are inferior if only slightly

that is why shadoweh lynch feels so good she blatantly destroyed pizza in her place of work it is a sign of utmost evil there is so much darkness in her heart

I offered to buy a new one and they wouldn't let me qq

TSE literally townslipped by not realizing a "mafia cop" would be able to see people's roles, I would be highly against voting him ever.

How is that a townslip?


Also, is this site unbearably slow for anyone else right now, or is it just me?

[NaCl]

Um, in what kind of game would there ever be a mafia cop? Like GIM, or something?

I just assumed they meant rolecop rather than alignment cop.

TSE, can you explain to me what a mafia cop would do?

[NaCl]

I believe bitbringer is at L-1?

I have a request for you, bitbringer. If someone declares intent to hammer, could you please claim your target?

[NaCl]

This chapter of the game is where I became concerned with the NaCl slot, and he hasn't accomplished anything or gained any town equity since. The way NaCl asked about the LA read looked ugly force fake pretend-work posturing. NaCl's push on LA seemed ridiculously emptyhearted. Then NaCl's nullread on me is fishy, I posted about that. It's not typical for people to nullread me, so it doesn't seem like an organic outcome.

Looking at this post, NaCl said LA is S/S with everyone, yet also said if LA flips scum then I'm scum. That's pretty cognitive dissonant.

Lots of his posting lacks authenticity.

I didn't say that LA was S/S with everyone, it was more that I felt she had a bunch of interactions I thought were S/S at the time. And I found that you were the most suspicious as you jumped on me right after with no real case other than "LA is town".

I didn't really say what I found suspicious about LA because I kind of like making people ask me and see what they care about or who they're focusing on, but this is what I didn't like about her at the time.
1. In 53, LA says that she didn't find Pine's entrance scummy, which bothers me.
2. Dunnstral uses one of his few posts to offer a vague defense of LA (Although I find him generally vague)
3. I was kind of suspicious of unwnd having LA on the higher side of things despite few posts.
4. I think there might have been something else, but I can't really remember.

Anyways, since TSE has replaced in, I've changed my mind. It's because of something Dunnstral said, although I don't want to reveal it just yet. Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding things, I wound up assuming he was a completely different role in Zero Escape. But this time I think I might have a better read on his mind.

1: I'm not going to claim my results as I see no way in which it helps anything but scum. Suck my dick. I definitely got a result though.
2: I'm pretty sure Abu is town and pops and DNS are scum.
3: good news I'm about to go on vacation so I'm not going to actively be reading v much
4: A free vig on me would probably help town so I'm hoping this is what happens. My assassin target

Creature

died overnight.

VOTE: Definitely Not Scum

Results would be nice, do you have anyone you would trust to understand them?[/quote]

Shadoweh, why do you think that there would be 2 scum in the neighbourhood?
And another question, what was the point in saying your target now?

Agree about Abu. Think if NaCL somehow happens to be wrong then Dunn can be deepwolf but not gonna deal with that rn

I'd like to talk to you more about this NaCL read. What is the genesis of this read?

Pops, I would like the same analysis re: Abu

- OS

Just seems to fit in my mind. I've written paragraphs about a few people and I could selectively decide to compare the two in ways that point to similar behavior but then I'd be repeating myself. We have a fresh day on some new flips and once I live past D1 (lynched/killed) I like to start thinking about the exact reason for why wagons form. It's not exactly some new strategy, but it personally engages me. In D1, NaCL never really showed any gumption and I found a lot of his presence to be listless. I think he begs to have a greater impresssion on others but ultimately does nothing with it if that makes sense? If I can recall correctly, his bitbringer reasoning was kinda just like 'ok whatever' and just copying the consensus going around. I think in terms of how bitbringer happen and the idea of being scum it would be the person who would feign indifference in the moment of suspicion.

I agree, my bitbringer reason was pretty lackluster. I'd been scumreading LA the entire time, but at that point, I started thinking TSE was town. I didn't really have any strong feelings right then (I kind of think pops is scum, but didn't think it would go through at the time), and kind of preferred Bitbringer to Shadoweh.


VOTE: Pops
She feels like she's been going after me for forced reasons, pretty much tunneling me without putting any real effort behind it yesterday, and staying off the main wagons. Also, the case on Shadoweh feels weird. I don't see the issue with target-claiming if you feel like you're going to be lynched. It gives you more information, and you can choose to reveal the penalty to the town or not--like, literally the only case it can hurt your wincon is if you become a neutral survivor. I get that it's not necessarily town-beneficial only (mafia would probably benefit more), but I don't see why it's not something that can be from town. I do find it strange that Shadoweh said it now, rather than later.

[NaCl]

VOTE: tris

zzz

are there any actual objections to this dying

hi can everyone say their tris read

when they see this at the top of the page

everyone in the game


also gun to the head abu is w for crappy meta reasons that might not even be that reliable anymore

I slightly think tris is town, but I don't really have strong feelings on her one way or the other.

Also, UNVOTE: .

I think I've spotted something from Shadoweh that means she and Pops aren't a scumteam. It's reasonable that one of them might be, but I think if one flips scum it will confirm the other as town.
Also, the other 2 people in the neighbourhood are pretty much certainly town. If pops is town, then all lynches should go outside the neighbourhood and Shadoweh's scum, probably TSE scum.

If there is scum in the neighbourhood (probably pops), then TSE and Shadoweh are town.

I really hope I'm not misunderstanding things here, though.

I'm also kind of worried about Abu because I feel like he could be WKing me, so I could lynch there. I want to sort out pops and Shadoweh but I'm not quite sure how to get the type of reaction that would inform me. I'll go look through Shadoweh's posts later.

[NaCl]

I slightly think tris is town

why?

Because she feels more disengaged than manipulative. I don't really see what she's done to be scummy.


VOTE: Shadoweh, I think I got the reaction I wanted.
Dunnstral, I don't know if you can tell what I'm thinking, but there was a certain piece of info that I'd like to reveal in order to make my case on her. May I reveal what I suspect is the case? But essentially I feel like she slipped up in one post and is overcompensating now.

It also probably means there's scum in the neighbourhood.
TSE, I'll explain in a bit. I don't really intend to keep this hidden much longer, and I plan to reveal what I'm hiding before the end of the game day. But I just want to check so that I'm not interfering with some of my townreads' plans.

[NaCl]

Well, since no one said I wasn't ruining anything, I'll just ask.

Dunnstral (well, or the other 2), was what you were referring to in 890 mean that the neighbourhood isn't real?

[NaCl]

Okay, just to confirm, there is no neighbourhood? Since that answer was a bit vague.

Because it feels like shadoweh slipped in 1193 and forgot it existed, then immediately started acknowledging it and posturing to vote me if it didn't exist. (which would point to TSE town, Shadoweh scum with someone out of DNS/pops/Dunnstral)

[NaCl]

VOTE: Pops

I didn't realize it was her who was left out, not the whole thing being fake, that changes things. Since scum with DNS/Dunnstral wouldn't be making that mistake, while it's possible with Pops. If she does flip town, though, Shadoweh's probably town.

And once again, I've mistaken Dunnstral as a neighbour in another game...oh well.

This also means TSE's no longer confirmed to me, since it puts the neighbourhood in a different light.

[NaCl]

And once again, I've mistaken Dunnstral as a neighbour in another game...oh well.

This also means TSE's no longer confirmed to me, since it puts the neighbourhood in a different light.

I don't know what you're referring to, to either point here

The previous game was Zero Escape, where I had spent the entire game convinced that you and Shiro were neighbours that were secretly trying to signal your neighbourhood to me (I was entirely wrong on that).

As for TSE, I changed my opinion on them for focusing on the neighbourhood and his attitude in general. However, now that I'm no longer considering that there is certainly a scum out of you 3, I'm more suspicious of him because its an easy lynch to line up, saying "it must be one of X".

[NaCl]

Regarding the Shadoweh lynch, I don't really feel too great about it. It feels like no one's trying to rock the boat on it. If she flips scum, then she was likely bussed, and it's pops who was doing that. I'm not really sure on who the other partner would be. I'm not joining the lynch, though. If she flips town, then I think it's more likely for the scum to be on the early part of the wagon. I was the only one who was close to a counterwagon, and if shadoweh's town, then it doesn't really matter if they were to get on the wagon or not later on, as it would likely fall on her regardless or me otherwise.

I'm back to suspecting TSE again because I was very wrong about the neighbourhood. I actually don't think a Shadoweh town flip would mean pops is scum, though, because of 1343. I'm suspecting her, but I don't think anyone else is, and she is in a strong position to bus right there.

I mean Shadow Flip should easily help me determine who’s Town/scum.
Or at least who some are.

TSE, why do you feel really confident in everything you say but not at all worried about dying?

[NaCl]

Okay, I'm here.

1. I'm 90% sure that TSE is lying and is the kind of player who will throw by fakeclaiming guilties. And the way that he gave out that information isn't indicative of any actual role I've ever heard of.
2. I'm not really sold on Shadoweh as scum, but I do agree with DEB's list from before. I didn't see it at the time, but as things have stalled, this sort of feels like it's a scum lynch that isn't able to move further, and if I'm wrong and she does flip red, there is at least one more mafia in DEB's pool, and likely two.

[NaCl]

Yeah. It's a bit overblown, but what I mean to say is that there's likely to be scum in there if Shadoweh is scum, because I feel like after a few days of literally nothing, the wagon could have collapsed if Shadoweh is scum and the other scum are already on the wagon. But it is a wide lynchpool, yes.

[NaCl]

Could anyone who's listening to TSE tell me why they actually believe him, or if they're just hopping on his weak fakeclaim to fit their previous beliefs?

[NaCl]

I'm here, but I have a terrible headache and will try to participate more tomorrow.

Off the top of my head:
Unwnd is probably a town role. He's not an IC, but I don't think scum is as likely to have a loud role as opposed to town.

DEB, why are you voting for tris?

I don't actually think TSE is a roleblocker, that feels fake to me. I'm not familiar enough with MariaR to say, but I don't think that losing your powers is some kind of typical thing that happens to players midway through the game. Unwnd, if you can actually confirm TSE as a roleblocker, that would impact my read.

I'm reconsidering on pops because if she's town I think the game is going to grind to a halt, especially after that last day. I still need to check through her some more, though.

Right now I like TSE for a lynch the most. Sheep or Abuhumaid are also okay. I am most against lynching Dunnstral or Unwnd.
Sheep, can you go and lay out your case on why tris is the most obviously scummy scum in the game right now? Because you feel really, really confident on her while I just feel like she's more or less in the middle.

[NaCl]

I'm reconsidering on pops because if she's town I think the game is going to grind to a halt, especially after that last day. I still need to check through her some more, though.

I only understood this the third time I read it. You think if you mislynch me, the activity will drop out of the game?
My activity might drop regardless of whether I'm lynched, the game now has no Pine, no Oversoul, and no Shadoweh. One of those things is my fault, but I really thought she was scum, so I had to :/

oh, i think i had misread that. i think that's a strange reason to avoid pushing you.

Well, things are different now, seeing that TSE died. But as pops was a more active slot, I wasn't in any hurry to lynch her right away. Because regardless of how she flipped, town or scum, I don't think that would help me improve my reads on the quieter people, but lynching in the opposite order would be more useful. And if she did flip town then it would pretty much make Lylo and every day after that a coin flip, save for PRs.

From where I'm sitting.. it looks like you're a loud mafia doctor who claimed you could confirm yourself day 2 to help your slot
And didn't think enough about whether a loud town doctor is something that wants to be baiting NKs
And now you need some variant of AtE or another to clamber out of this

I don't see there being a loud mafia anything unless it upgrades into something better. I'm not really suspicious of unwnd in general, and I don't know if you are...are you? Because your stance on him feels kind of middle of the road, while I find him to be one of my stronger townreads.

Although I don't want to discuss unwnd's claim further as I don't think it matters if he's a loud mafia doctor or a loud town visitor or a loud mafia visitor or whatever. We know he's loud, all that matters is if he's mafia or not. And I think his play has been townie, and loud is more likely to come from town over scum.


VOTE: Sheep
I could also go for Abuhumaid, but sheep has been going after tris all game without making the slightest effort to actually push that through or convince anyone of it, and I don't understand why he's making the case in the first place. It doesn't feel real at all.

[NaCl]

Abu, do you know what popcorn is (you pick who claims next)? Or do you disagree with that method or something?

I think we should massclaim. I'm pretty sure it's MYLO, and I'd take any information we can get. If we're wrong, unwnd's going to die regardless, so it's not like we'll be outing a hidden doc or other PR that can stop a kill (or probably not, anyways).

P-edit.
Um...did you read the last few pages at all and see what happened to TSE?

[NaCl]

2 pages.

[NaCl]

Well, this has kind of stalled. I'm not waiting for Abu to respond, it's whatever.

I'm just going to claim, I don't think that anything changes for me since I'm not going to get more results or power up and the scum's NK is probably set.

I'm a 1-shot PT cop. I checked unwnd N1, he has no PT.

If we are massclaiming, I'd like sheep next.

Wow, lol. I was wondering why the thread was locked for a while there
I'm fine going after who the now conf town TSE was SR'ng. I also don't like Sheep's last three posts.
VOTE: Sheepsaysmeep
I still have a bad feeling about Tris.

You checked that the thread was locked but didn't read what was going on?

[NaCl]

1. I don't know if I become full PT cop if I do upgrade and I don't want to upgrade as that would involve lynching someone I feel is pretty much certainly town.
2. I can't explain why I chose unwnd. Or I really don't want to, mostly.

[NaCl]

This is slow.

Sheep, are you not claiming because you think massclaim is a bad idea, or you want a consensus or...what?


Also, I felt really good about GIF originally, but DEB is kind of not really paying attention to the game in a scum kind of way.
Sheep and Abu are still really scummy to me. As tris pointed out, sheep's read on her comes from before what he's was just talking about.
Still, I think it's slightly possible that Sheep is town. In which case the scumteam is being quiet and stalling because I feel like the hammer will inevitably fall on him. Yes, I could have kept quite about that for longer, but I hope that saying this, regardless of who the scumteam is, will get people talking.


And for most of you, do you want massclaiming or not (or if you think you're better off individually claiming, then do whatever you want, sure)? I'd prefer for people to say there opinions rather than just leave it in some weird limbo where it's really ambiguous and we're not getting anywhere.

[NaCl]

*their

[NaCl]

I don't think pops has claimed either. And I don't think people should claim their targets, because it did seem like Shadoweh got punished for it in some way that didn't have to do with removing her power. And if the person's dead, I don't see why it matters.

[NaCl]

She didn't say it outright, but I thought she was referring to:

Because they died so my ability to upgrade is gone. And tbh I was hoping I'd be modvigged but unfortunately claiming target doesn't do that. (definitely do not do it)
Why do you care about this, again, you are asking me a bunch of picky pointless questions without any scum motivation behind the answers. How would doing what the mod told us all NOT to do, under any circumstance, make me scum?

Also, her flip as well as TSE's was different compared to Bitbringer and Creatures in its format.

[NaCl]

I have to give it to everyone here: we have someone managed to bore scum to the point they practically outed themselves by submission. I don't buy NaCL's claim, it makes no sense and really serves 0 purpose especially with how Dunn/DNS neighborhood worked. Abu is begging to be lynched, and then I think tris is being truthful wrt her claim.

Well, you're wrong, but I think there's one PR who's lying. It's possible there are two, but that's far less likely to me, since that would make it both Dunnstral and tris. Zero is possible, but I don't think the scum plan is just to all claim VT in massclaim, unless they were expecting fewer PRs and more VTs.

I don't see how my power's repeated by the Dunnstral/DNS neighbourhood. Yes, it's very similar to a 1-shot cop, but at the same time. I didn't upgrade, so I'm pretty sure I would have been a full investigative or a better investigative. And my role was hampered by the existence of the neighbourhood (at least from a design perspective, not what actually happened). Plus, given who I think Dunnstral's target was (DNS, but I'm like only 60% sure of), the neighbourhood feels like it fit a different purpose and was more giving them a choice.

Shadoweh isn't really a cop, and I have no clue why people have been kind of discussing her upgrading into a cop for quite a while. The rules said that all targets were randomized unless specified otherwise. And I guess it's possible for scum to not have that and not have anyone else know about it, but it doesn't make Shadoweh's power very useful unless she'd know about that rule.

I'm not really sure which of Dunnstral or tris is the scum, though. I'm leaning towards tris, as her role is convenient enough for her to get no results for the rest of the game, and is plausible enough not to get nightkilled. It is possible that Dunnstral is lying about his informed aspect of his role or something like that. But I still believe that there's room for both my role and Dunnstral's claimed role.

I still feel most confident on sheep being scum right now, but I need to look back and see if it's possible for both sheep and tris to be scum. Because that's seeming more likely to me, but right now, I think sheep is the correct lynch.

[NaCl]

Dunnstral, how did you know DNS was informed and the same as you? Was it as part of the PT from the mod or from your PM, or did you only find out by discussing it with him in the PT?

[NaCl]

Also, what's a PT cop?

Gets results of has a PT or doesn't have a PT. So it can identify people like Masons, Neighbours, and Mafia, but not tell which is which.

Dunnstral, how did you know DNS was informed and the same as you? Was it as part of the PT from the mod or from your PM, or did you only find out by discussing it with him in the PT?

The vig powerup being only available to one of us was information inside of the neighborhood.

Knowing his target was information in my role pm. His role pm had information on who my target was. We also knew our own respective targets

Okay, if he knew your target from PM, then this is a town claim unless you've been lying about your role or his. The way I see it, if DNS had so much information about you and you were scum, it would narrow your options in interacting with your neighbour partner too much.

As for tris, I'm less inclined to believe her role, but at the same time, I don't have any real good feelings on pretty much any of the VT claims. I keep going back and forth on pops in my head, and DEB seems like he's just content to sit by and let us lynch whoever without really caring. And at the same time, neither sheep and Abu are doing anything to convince me either. I'd say it's possible that they had a different plan when the claims started, but there were too many PRs so they all decided to claim vanilla, but I still don't feel too confident...

Tris, what made you change your mind on sheep, or make you reconsider? Also, was that always your role, or did you upgrade into it?

[NaCl]

Fine, whatever

VOTE: Abuhumaid

[NaCl]

NaCl hard carried me. Playing scum is bleh.

No way. I mostly asked you "what should I do" in the mafia PT a billion times. And I really screwed up D3 and I think you would have died right after me if I got lynched because my pivot off you was terrible.