Micro 898 | Forest Fire | Over

[Pyrrha Nikos]

january I am somewhat paranoid about your slot and honestly it's because you don't really have any scum reads

that's fair but i usually never have scumreads, only townreads and non-townreads

and i do think everyone HAS had a few towny posts which is kinda why im struggling

but....
here's my penguin case (sorry it's long, tldr is at the bottom)

Spoiler:

spends first 20-ish posts with one-liners (mostly NAI at this point, just a different style of play)

I townread you, Dann.

this is the first read he has and it's not really justified or explained. that'd be fine normally especially since dann WAS towny. but i still feel like up to this point penguin's been extremely low-energy
same applies past this point too, but i think the general thing that stands out to me is penguin's reactive-ness. majority of posts are like 1 or 2 sentences reaction to other people's posts or gifs (love the gifs btw, just don't think they're particularly towny)

Last Night Tomorrow

i feel like penguin's reads this game lacked reasoning behind them. wasn't sure if this was just a habit of play, or an actual scum play. i compared it to the game pyrrha mentioned (viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78060) and i think he actually does give justifications for why he's trying to lynch people in that game.
basically: penguin's reads are phrased as very strong reads but i feel like if town!penguin genuinely wanted a scumread to be lynched, he'd be giving reasons and actually trying to convince people

from what i can tell, 433 is the only real reasoning that penguin has made for a read/lynch

oh and i realize that my read on eth0s is quite different than the majority of people's read, but i think penguin's push on him can be read as pushing a scummy player without genuinely attempting to classify them. the stuff he used as reasoning for the FOS were things like "eth0s didn't read and asked a question i already answered" ([post=#p11364905]426[/post]) which generally might appear scummy but isn't really a reason to sort someone as scum.
essentially: eth0s was lynchbait (sry) and i don't think penguin was un-confident enough on that push to be town

if you don't agree w that last paragraph its ok i kinda disagree with myself a little. but tell me what you think on the rest pls.

tldr; penguin isn't genuinely trying to convince people to vote his scumreads which i think is unusual as town who seems to be presenting their own reads as very strong

I mean 1452, obviously.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

january I am somewhat paranoid about your slot and honestly it's because you don't really have any scum reads

that's fair but i usually never have scumreads, only townreads and non-townreads

and i do think everyone HAS had a few towny posts which is kinda why im struggling

but....
here's my penguin case (sorry it's long, tldr is at the bottom)

Spoiler:

spends first 20-ish posts with one-liners (mostly NAI at this point, just a different style of play)

I townread you, Dann.

this is the first read he has and it's not really justified or explained. that'd be fine normally especially since dann WAS towny. but i still feel like up to this point penguin's been extremely low-energy
same applies past this point too, but i think the general thing that stands out to me is penguin's reactive-ness. majority of posts are like 1 or 2 sentences reaction to other people's posts or gifs (love the gifs btw, just don't think they're particularly towny)

Last Night Tomorrow

i feel like penguin's reads this game lacked reasoning behind them. wasn't sure if this was just a habit of play, or an actual scum play. i compared it to the game pyrrha mentioned (viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78060) and i think he actually does give justifications for why he's trying to lynch people in that game.
basically: penguin's reads are phrased as very strong reads but i feel like if town!penguin genuinely wanted a scumread to be lynched, he'd be giving reasons and actually trying to convince people

from what i can tell, 433 is the only real reasoning that penguin has made for a read/lynch

oh and i realize that my read on eth0s is quite different than the majority of people's read, but i think penguin's push on him can be read as pushing a scummy player without genuinely attempting to classify them. the stuff he used as reasoning for the FOS were things like "eth0s didn't read and asked a question i already answered" ([post=#p11364905]426[/post]) which generally might appear scummy but isn't really a reason to sort someone as scum.
essentially: eth0s was lynchbait (sry) and i don't think penguin was un-confident enough on that push to be town

if you don't agree w that last paragraph its ok i kinda disagree with myself a little. but tell me what you think on the rest pls.

tldr; penguin isn't genuinely trying to convince people to vote his scumreads which i think is unusual as town who seems to be presenting their own reads as very strong

I mean 1452, obviously.

I don’t agree with this btw. I think he has been sorting. He also unvoted Banaki based os sorting and I also liked him not automatically sheeping Dann by jumping on Gamma before sheep was even lynched.

[january]

oh actually *edit on 1667*
i felt like gamma made a read on dann a little too fas. they gave dann as a townread by post 99 and it just felt a little early to be sorting. maybe it was just me and my read method but i'd have been wary of dann at that point just for being too active (maybe?). not saying u should have scumread dann obviously but just felt too fast and lacking in progression

[january]

january I am somewhat paranoid about your slot and honestly it's because you don't really have any scum reads

that's fair but i usually never have scumreads, only townreads and non-townreads

and i do think everyone HAS had a few towny posts which is kinda why im struggling

but....
here's my penguin case (sorry it's long, tldr is at the bottom)

Spoiler:

spends first 20-ish posts with one-liners (mostly NAI at this point, just a different style of play)

I townread you, Dann.

this is the first read he has and it's not really justified or explained. that'd be fine normally especially since dann WAS towny. but i still feel like up to this point penguin's been extremely low-energy
same applies past this point too, but i think the general thing that stands out to me is penguin's reactive-ness. majority of posts are like 1 or 2 sentences reaction to other people's posts or gifs (love the gifs btw, just don't think they're particularly towny)

Last Night Tomorrow

i feel like penguin's reads this game lacked reasoning behind them. wasn't sure if this was just a habit of play, or an actual scum play. i compared it to the game pyrrha mentioned (viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78060) and i think he actually does give justifications for why he's trying to lynch people in that game.
basically: penguin's reads are phrased as very strong reads but i feel like if town!penguin genuinely wanted a scumread to be lynched, he'd be giving reasons and actually trying to convince people

from what i can tell, 433 is the only real reasoning that penguin has made for a read/lynch

oh and i realize that my read on eth0s is quite different than the majority of people's read, but i think penguin's push on him can be read as pushing a scummy player without genuinely attempting to classify them. the stuff he used as reasoning for the FOS were things like "eth0s didn't read and asked a question i already answered" (426) which generally might appear scummy but isn't really a reason to sort someone as scum.
essentially: eth0s was lynchbait (sry) and i don't think penguin was un-confident enough on that push to be town

if you don't agree w that last paragraph its ok i kinda disagree with myself a little. but tell me what you think on the rest pls.

tldr; penguin isn't genuinely trying to convince people to vote his scumreads. i think this is unusual since he's presenting his reads as strong reads. as town with strong reads he'd be trying to convince people more

edited some dumb formatting thing and the tldr that was written in gibberish

apologies if it's somewhat incoherent, was kinda just noting things as i read so the thought progression kinda... progresses throughout the post

isn't this my post...

[Pyrrha Nikos]

I don’t know how you can honestly read his ISO and say he’s not sorting? I wanted to find quotes but there’s lots contradicting this.

[january]

ok but?

you were saying earlier that I had "no reason" to be voting penguin. and when i give u a reason then u say u disagree with it. but u have to admit... i DID have a reason whether u disagree with it or not

[Pyrrha Nikos]

no wtf where did i say i hard tr banakai

and lol i’m not the one who puts clears in my townreads that’s someone else

u and dann are my townreads like i said forever ago. and i would have told you if that changed

i think you’re interpreting me arguing with you or dann as a scumread on you, but it’s not...

No, you haven’t sr me since you replaced in, which is one of the reasons I unvoted. I know that I disagree with you on Penguin, he very clearly has been sorting this game, so your confidence on him being scum, is definitely baffling to me.

[january]

aren’t you trying to get towncredit right now lol

This doesn’t look townie. You haven’t come up with even a single reason why he’s scum. Banaki has terribad reason for sr me otoh but fhpov, it actually looks like reasons. You’re just shading Penguin with no basis whatsoever.

ok do you at least take this back then

[Pyrrha Nikos]

responding to all of gamma’s stuff, sorry quoting doesn’t work on mobile so it’s just a big block of stuff
—————
i did explain the reads i think? they definitely changed since then but if you have questions on a specific read it’d be easier to explain

i can show u the quotes i liked. i townread him more for the “what” and i think his delivery was just perceived as weaker? idk how to explain it exactly but i’ll find the quotes

can also explain this in more detail. but i think i just townread everyone else more than you. i made a list of reads and i had at least one post that i was like “i’m pretty sure this person is town” for everyone except u. clearly that was wrong but at the time it seemed valid to me

yeah i was annoyed and i kinda still am. self meta but i do it more as town. it frustrates me when i get scumread for something that isn’t even scummy. won’t say more just cuz... don’t say things when you’re annoyed right

no i think both of u misinterpreted my point. i said that DANN would not immediately scumread me if i said i sr him. the hypothetical has nothing to do with pyrrha, it was just me criticizing her response by comparing it with how someone else might respond. i’m quite aware that pyrrha would probably respond the same if i was to scumread dann

eth0s had one particular post that was Very Towny to me, i’ll find it. sure i think he was probably stronger early d1 than the rest but at that point i had set him aside as town already. don’t see how having this read makes me scum and i can’t be that bad at making reads if it’s right...

eth0s is confitown as is Gamma. We don’t need either of them sorted.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

lynched asap

I think Dann unvoted for a reason.
UNVOTE:
I will hammer if we get <3 days before DL.

dann unvoted so they wouldn't be at L-1. your unvote gives me the heebie jeebies

btw january I understand how you feel about penguin and I'm not too convinced on him either but I think you should justgo with the grain and lynch banakai if ur town because penguin just flat out isnt getting lynched today regardless of what you want.

I don’t know why BS unvoted either but I don’t see how that’s in any way scum indicative?

[january]

please can you please READ the context of what i said. please.

gamma asked me why i said eth0s was obvtown

and i responded with "i'll explain why i thought eth0s was obvtown"

and here it is rn. thanks for the segue.

-nuanced and detailed attempts to sort (lots of info and thought)

Spoiler: re-read

BS - First person to really break away from RVS and it was in his first two posts. Suggests lynching and sheeping RC if he greenflips.

RC - Clearly agitated by BS, probably NAI as a whole and someone later mentions it is within RC meta to be upset when targetted like he was. I have also dealt with this firsthand but am still not convinced that it can be found as AI.

Pine - Immediately jumps on BS for his suggestion against RC. Could be opportunistic.

Pyrrha -

I think we should lynch RC, if he flips town, we should hard sheep him.

I just finished a game with RC where scum wanted him dead. Policy lynching good scum players will just result in scum gamethrowing, so a really terrible idea, always.

not really sure what this means. Elaborate?

BS - 27 really lays on the "scummy player" flavor more than I have noticed from him in the past. Page 2 as a whole is where I get the sense that he thinks his logic is townie regardless of alignment.

24 is a really confusing post

yeah

Gamma - "You see you don’t BoP PL a player on D1, you do it D3 when they haven’t led a lynch on scum yet" this makes quite a lot of sense and even if it's his own slot he's talking about I still like the post.

Dannflor - 82 is good. I think it eliminates the idea of a BS/dann team. It could be very wolfy but I think it's too early to tell, so I will take it at face value as town.

Pyrrha - 89 and 91 read very awkwardly. And a simple unvote feels forced, or like she did it out of fear/pressure from dann? 94 feels like beating around the bush and doesn't do anything to answer why she is sticking out an RVS vote while having a legit FoS on BS. 96 feels out of place.

Wait a second.

Forest fires create CO₂

CO₂ destroys the ozone layer

The ozone layer preserves the arctic regions

The arctic regions are where penguins live

UNVOTE:

His power is for the good of tree-kind this game. Or he's one sick and twisted penguin.

Time will tell.

You aren’t by any chance a Jingle alt, right?

I am not a Jingle alt

-- on a side note I think that dannflor should be the one held to any sort of BoP PL if that's what it comes down to. Even if that happens I would like to follow Gamma's rule of thumb --

On a more serious note I get what BS was saying. I thought the logic was sound although I was uninterested in joining him. Dannflor does make me realize that the logic wasnt great. But I'm not sure if that's something BS was considering. I kinda think he truly believed his own logic regardless of his alignment

Gamma was right, the logic of lynching RC on D1 without even a single cause for suspicion, really made very little sense. I don’t know if he’s scum though. His reaction to it isn’t pinging me but the thing is he self-voted and put himself at L-1, so if he’s scum and that lynch would have gone through, it would look great for RC, so I’m thinking bad town over scum rn. I wish RC hadn’t have replaced out, because then we would know if BS continues to hardpush for this. If he did, it would be more than reasonable to assume he was probable scum. So now, we’ll never get to find that out.

I think given BS behavior up until replacement it's pretty safe to assume he was going to push RC as long as he felt the lynch possible

-- Pyrrha's page 5 continues to feel overly cautious --

sheep - 117 essentially restates what Gamma said in a roundabout way, regarding BS. But also essentially restates what I said regarding the genuinity of BS logic. However he does come to conclude BS as town as a result, which I don't think either I or Gamma explicitly did. On the whole I don't really understand or agree with sheep's logic on page 5. I think something is lost in translation between sheep and pyrra here and kind of makes the discussion feel useless.

BS - in 131 "I didn't vote, because I wanted to discuss whether lynching RC is good idea day 1, rather than directly pushing his lynch." I actually start second guessing my assumption that he thought the logic was genuine. If he really thought it was a good move I think he would have voted him. I somehow missed the fact that BS self-voted and never voted RC. I need to think about this slot more now. Continues to lay on the scummy flavor in an awkward way in 139 and 141.

bs not having wolfed on this site reinforces my read on how confident and unreserved he opened considering this a pretty respectable playerlist

This seems like a pretty genuine thought

linking this very game as his scum game, self-voting to L-1, and his general tone read rather forced to me. It's hard for me to see townie motivation for those things.

meh agree to disagree
i find that this type of erratic behavior is generally too rash to be w shrug

The main reason I disagree with his behavior here as making him town is he's sort of a walking contradiction. "Let's PL RC because town paranoia could get him (mis)lynched at a more pivotal point in time if we don't" yet he is creating a bunch of paranoia over his own slot by acting intentionally scummy, which in turn sets himself up to be lynched over paranoia. I think town!him would consider how a potential mislynch while also cementing himself as a liability is a bad way to handle D1.

what i meant was that if i was a wolf theres no way i'd make a rash decision in calling to lynch rc for no game-specific reason off the bat

There’s the fact he didn’t vote there though. I feel like he

would

have voted RC had he gotten support. That part seems wolfy to me.

i disagree but i like this read from you

@sheep

why do you disagree with this?

Banakai - 169 to 172: Weird gut feelings about 169 and 170. They both feel manufactured at a glance. 171 I disagree with actually. I think as town in RC's position I would not be as concerned as I would as scum. At least if I read Blatant's early content as genuinely believing the logic to be sound (like I did) then I would just allow the lynch to go through as I will have a strong towny voice for the rest of the game. Or make the scum waste a prime on a stump. Yes it's annoying to be ML'ed like that but you can still contribute to the game.
However if I'm scum in RC's position and still read BS the same way then I would be panicking because town being in agreement with BS could simply take me out of the game early and severely hurt my team's chance at winning.
It's hard to say how this applies to RC though as he undoubtedly plays this game in a different way than I do. I guess knowing how RC would read blatant scum would be the only real way to gain any real AI intel on him.
172: "Blatant scum would be my biggest vote RN but I won't vote and leave him 1 away from death. -- also he's potentially just one of those trolly players, which I would normally like to lynch anyway (but in this game if we lynch him and hes town he sticks around)" This assumes BS to continue "trolling" after death which I heavily do not agree with.

Penguin -

Also, if someone is about to argue that I'm the BS scum buddy in this situation trying to push an alternative. I would counter that by saying the BS vs. RC situation never happens if I'm BS' scum partner and just leave it at that.

Let's not leave it at that since you brought it up. It happened over the course of 2ish hours - read: quickly. Very likely that you weren't even present before or during the interaction.

This is a hot take. I believe this also eliminates the possibility of a PP/dann team?

Banakai - 185 is good at face value but I will want to revisit it later

I mean you didn't talk about why you found anyone else above null - and it's pretty easy to pick up on - so, no I don't really feel like it.

I find it laughable that you and pyrrha have such strong reads right now. Two slots haven't even generated any content and one is just creating noise.

Sheep being dann's lynch of choice and Penguin being skeptical of dann makes me feel a little weird about this interaction as a whole. I can't put my finger on my feelings yet.

genuinely believes that everything he's been doing is protown

Yeah uh sheep you kinda have been contradicted by the person you are defending

me too though? although I wouldn't call it defending in my case as I haven't TR'ed BS

-and this. but i realize now that ofc u wouldn't be able to sort sheep interactions on d1.

@sheep

what i meant was that if i was a wolf theres no way i'd make a rash decision in calling to lynch rc for no game-specific reason off the bat

There’s the fact he didn’t vote there though. I feel like he

would

have voted RC had he gotten support. That part seems wolfy to me.

i disagree but i like this read from you

@sheep

why do you disagree with this?

I want this question to stand out because I think the answer is important.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

This was expected.

I’m the Firefighter. I targeted Pyrrha N1 and Dann N2. I knew my claim would confirm me so I felt comfortable wagering my life there, and FYI if we had a townflip instead I still would have claimed, except i would have advocated for mass claim.

Good.

Doused Dann N1 and Pyrrha N2

.

Gamma claiming to target me over Dann N1 is sus, because no one was more obvtown than Dann D1. This reads more like, FF probably is probably saving Dann, so Pyrrha is likely ignitable.

Yeah, it’s Gamma. That fake Ff claim was pretty ballsy. Did you seriously not think you’d not get CC’d?

Btw
If it wasn’t clear already, Pyrrha is town. I don’t see her talking so certainly about my scumflip in these instances if she is scum.

Ftr, in future games I’m definitely trusting Dann’s reads on sheep and probably ignoring his reads on you.

[january]

there's more than that ^ but i guess pyrrha is right that it's not that important.

maybe i had some hindsight bias now that i think about it

still definitely don't think lynching him d1 made any sense and i feel like a big part of it was just that he pushed on pyrrha and then people pushed back on him lol. it's like an omgus except collectively (lol)

[Pyrrha Nikos]

no you really just ignored the rest of that post lol

the case was to CHALLENGE the weird townread on you. when i started the case i was only wary of you

and then when i made the case it convinced me that you were maf

but keep taking things out of context lol

I will acknowledge that his meta argument about scum!him hardbussing sheep is weak but you’re definitely not correct about him not sorting, so I still think he’s very clearly town.

[PenguinPower]

I will acknowledge that his meta argument about scum!him hardbussing sheep is weak

It's not though if you click my wiki button.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

preferably not me after i’ve towntold a lot

and yes i would like to lynch penguin but i know i’m not confident on that

(no that’s not scum setting up for a mislynch, i seriously don’t feel confident in any of my reads. i just have a gut read that banakai isn’t scum and penguin reads as scummier than me)

You really seem to have a lack of conviction here
You seem to be super doubtful of your scumreads and you are giving reasons that aren’t very strong
This kinda doesn’t mesh with the confident persons you have been putting forward imo

That’s precisely why I referenced your post re: Penguin as an example, because at the time you made it, it was clearly an accurate read on him and definitely non-agenay.

So, that’s what’s also concerning me about january, I really cannot tell whether she has conviction on Penguin being scum or not. Problem for me is Banaki isn’t playing. If I could clear him, it would make this a lot easier. Her preferring Pengin over Banaki is probably what concerns me the most because why would we want to lynch an active player who is very clearly sortable over one who refuses to help us correctly read him? So, that is the most concerning part of this for me. She is saying me and Dann are her strongest tr, so why is she so opposed to Banaki being lynched here? It’s very clear that whatever he is, he is dangerous to have in LYLO, so why isn’t she acknowledging this?

Like if we lynch january today and game doesn’t end, I am 100% powerlynching Banaki and I’m also not happy that Penguin would prefer BS over Banaki but at least he gave a valid albeit not the best reason for that.

I dunno, I’m still torn between january and Banaki. Her case on him doesn’t really make sense but is it scum indicative or not? I still can’t tell.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

the case was to CHALLENGE the weird townread on you

She actually stated this before posting the case.

The thing is the townread on Penguin is very far from “weird”. He has demonstrated plenty of conviction in his posts and much of it reads to me like it’s coming from a townie mindset.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

predetermined purpose? yes, to find out if there was a potential for you to be scum. dann quite literally asked me to do it.

predetermined read? no, i was just wary of the townread on you because i didn't find you outstandingly towny

there's a difference. i tried to make my case on you unbiased and if i had decided from reading that i thought you were towny i would have just said "i can't make a case on penguin bc i think he's towny"

of if you read as null to me i would have said that. i would not have just made up a read.

but instead when i made the case i believed what i found was scummy so that's why i called you scum

Pengin’s point about how you would view him as less townie than both Banaki and BS is decent. At any rate, we are definitely not lynching Penguin. I also think BS has been plenty townie today.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

oh actually *edit on 1667*
i felt like gamma made a read on dann a little too fas. they gave dann as a townread by post 99 and it just felt a little early to be sorting. maybe it was just me and my read method but i'd have been wary of dann at that point just for being too active (maybe?). not saying u should have scumread dann obviously but just felt too fast and lacking in progression

I was slightly concerned about Dann pushing Gamma as sheep’s buddy att, which is why I liked Penguin not jumping on that. I still hardtown read both slots.

I still think Banaki was frozen during sheep wagon and his read on me doesn’t make sense. Him saying I lead the mislynch on eth0s, just because I was the lead vote, still pings me.


VOTE: Banaki

[Pyrrha Nikos]

aren’t you trying to get towncredit right now lol

This doesn’t look townie. You haven’t come up with even a single reason why he’s scum. Banaki has terribad reason for sr me otoh but fhpov, it actually looks like reasons. You’re just shading Penguin with no basis whatsoever.

ok do you at least take this back then

I feel more confident on Banaki flipping scum than you and even if I’m wrong about that, mislynching you is objectively worse for the gamestate than mislynching Banaki. He is never going to become more readable, otoh, you definitely could be.

So, yeah I think eth0s is right here. Unless I can confidently scumlock anyone, Banaki is still objectively the best lynch today.

[PenguinPower]

I want to see what Dann says when he feels better, but I don't disagree that Banakai isn't contributing much.

[eth0s]

at least january generates content and gives us stuff to form reads off of. That's a big reason that I prefer banakai today

[PenguinPower]

Yes, yes, that's where I was going with that, but I'd like to see Dann's case to see if I'm being overly reactionary or not.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

jk as for my scumreads, pyrrha, BS is someone who I want lynched but im split on if he's scum, Psyche i was scum reading but I don't know about January now. Also in general I feel like after 2 replace outs that slots probably not scum because most ppl don't replace out as scum.

so honestly I don't have much. penguin I could maybe see being scum but I wouldn't say it's currently a read.

There is no way town!you should still be sr me here and you’re giving towncred to january

solely

based on on that slot replacing out twice is complete bs frankly. Of course, you’d prefer to have her in LYLO over me. No one needs a building to literally fall on them to see why you’d prefer her in LYLO to anyone else.

I think that maybe january is really the scum pocket and not Banaki. And shocker, his second strongest sr is BS. Can we guess a lhf who isn’t wrongly sr me for a thousand, Alex?

Like if Banaki winds up flipping scum and we lose this game because you all didn’t listen to me, I’m gonna figuratively be smacking some people post-game.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

at least january generates content and gives us stuff to form reads off of. That's a big reason that I prefer banakai today

+1

He 100% isn’t sorting here. He hasn’t honestly read my posting. I’m gonna call it rn. I think game probably ends with Banaki lynch and january is probably town.