Micro 905: High Noon (GAME TERMINATED)

[Amrun]

I guess I expected too much of town for thinking they wouldn’t do this.

VOTE: not_mafia

[Amrun]

What makes you think Not_Mafia is town?

I don’t, really. Anti-town at best.

However, I can’t imagine he thought immediate dueling was a scum claim or he wouldn’t have done it.

I guess I expected too much of town for thinking they wouldn’t do this.

VOTE: not_mafia

Does this mean you're not town?

Is this a real question?

[Amrun]

I assumed we would be leashing duels as extra lynches, essentially making this a semi-night less game to the advantage of town.

But I should have known chucklefucks wouldn’t let that happen just because.

[Amrun]

If anything Amruns post makes it seem like they know NM is oging to flip town, but then votes there anyways.

We think that NM has a high scum equity as a result of this play, and if he flips scum we are following what RC said and killing QT

-F

Literally everyone would be referred to in this same way. If I was scum I wouldn’t even be mad at this. All players, scum or town, should be trying to appear town, and should be playing pro town instead of blatantly anti-town. Everyone is the same for the purpose of that statement. What I was saying is I would have expected players not to be so anti-town and I’m annoyed that someone decided to play like this.

I don’t know what not mafia will flip, or the duelee. They were null since they hadn’t posted prior to that. I think this is anti town behavior, and therefore more likely to flip scum than the player who hadn’t even posted, but I also don’t think this player cares or expected to be killed for it, if he did, which gives me pause. However, it doesn’t really fucking matter since now we are stuck killing one of two with basically zero content, so I’m passed.

[Amrun]

GL dont condescend to us please, we are a hydra, not a newb.

I see that we are just going to have a different view of the game and thats fine. Your read is wrong though, so while you have an idea of what we are, your incorrect ping on us makes me wonder if you are town who has a shit read, or scum who is making a push on us because we voted your buddy after he dueled in his first post.

This is a shitty, scummy stretch. It’s a poorly veiled attempt to justify OMGUS.

[Amrun]

pretty sure 93 is town

ff is more likely town than scum but I wouldn't like be surprised if he was scum

Wait I think I have that reversed

I think FF is town here and I'm uncertain if GL is

actually idk if either of them are town

This progression is garbage as well. What wishy washy mess. You called 93 specifically a towny post and then reverse your position twice in the next few posts. Reeks of scum fabricating reads and definitely the worst thing in the game so far.

[Amrun]

GL strongest townread so far.

[Amrun]

It's possible that correct play is simply to quicklynch NM for it because allowing scum In a good position to force duels with townies to keep weak scum alive increases scum equity a lot

I need to stop making assumptions this game because this is 100% what I thought we would be doing and I’m annoyed NF isn’t dead yet.

We cannot allow people to break the duel leash. It’s pretty objectively the correct play in this situation.

[Amrun]

Quantifiable Conundrum (L-4)

: noone

Not_Mafia (L-2)

: Fishy Logic, Amrun

RadiantCowbells, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Lovebird, eth0s

nothing else to say about having been dueled?

I literally hadn't noticed, I didn't read any of the thread.
Please vote for no lynch guys, I think this whole thing was just an (admittedly dumb) joke, and this is TvT.
Still, if you want to policy lynch someone for dueling someone who literally hasn't posted yet, I understand.

Man I think this is a scum response

Aaand RC immediately goes against his own self admitted optimal play

[Amrun]

My expectations for how I'd feel about this situation: fuck NM let's policy lynch him so he doesn't gamethrow again

Reality: lol

Does he have a history of game throwing?

[Amrun]

#154 is good posting

[Amrun]

@Dann:

The part I specifically did not like is calling post #93 town and then not knowing who he townread out of the pair. Like... wouldn’t it be ... the author of post 93?!

But actually in hindsight, scum would probably be more composed in that situation, so I concede your point.

As for not rushing this phase, I don’t see why it matters either way, since it doesn’t end the day. But in that post, I didn’t mean I was annoyed that the phase wasn’t ended. I don’t care about that. I was annoyed that there doesn’t seem to be an immediate consensus that we are making the obviously correct play.

[Amrun]

EBWOP: I know I actually said “annoyed NM isn’t dead yet” but functionally I don’t care that he’s not dead, just that there’s no clear intent to make him be that way soon. Though I don’t see the point in dragging it out since we still get to discuss after, regardless of outcome.

[Amrun]

Amrun calling it townie is like, something I'm not a huge fan of but can't dive much deeper due to site rules

I don’t understand this post, and if you can’t talk about it, then why bring it up at all? This bothers me.

[Amrun]

He's not stating that's what you said and ending it there, but asking for clarification. I'd say he's genuinely trying to sort you.

So how would you feel if I had quoted this post

if QC is scum he's bad/newb scum

which is def possible but I'm not sold on him being "obvscum" level yet

and said

"so you think qc is newbscum but also think he isn't scum?!"

because that's what he did to me.

Ok, I understand now.

Obviously I don’t think you think that. However, I endorsed his post because it seemed like a good place to push you and I wanted to add pressure to your answer.

“Good posting” has many meanings but I understand your take on it now.

[Amrun]

And fwiw I feel better about ethos now.

[Amrun]

I lean Guilty Lion as town due to 172. It has a lot of reasoning and he also argues against claims that my first post was somehow "bad," which is so ridiculous (I've already explained before that I literally did not read a single post in the thread before making it, which is extremely plausible.)

Is “a lot of reasoning” = town?

[Amrun]

I lean Guilty Lion as town due to 172. It has a lot of reasoning and he also argues against claims that my first post was somehow "bad," which is so ridiculous (I've already explained before that I literally did not read a single post in the thread before making it, which is extremely plausible.)

Is “a lot of reasoning” = town?

It leans town, yeah.
I'm trying to contribute to the broader game, but I'm a bit preoccupied with the duel.

Do scum not provide reasoning?

[Amrun]

GL/Eth0s?

I think no on this one. Don’t think their interaction was s/s.

FL/eth0s, on the other hand... I could get behind that.

[Amrun]

Radiant Cowbells (L-4)

: noone

eth0s (L-3)

: GuiltyLion

Amrun, Dannflor, Lovebird, Fishy Logic, Quantifiable Conundrum

Can two duels even happen simultaneously? This is getting out of hand. At least this duel is pretty good.

[Amrun]

For this one going to have to go with who has a higher likelihood to flip scum.

VOTE: ethos

[Amrun]

Radiant Cowbells (L-3)

: Quantifiable Conundrum

eth0s (L-1)

: GuiltyLion, Amrun, Fishy Logic

Dannflor, Lovebird

You're welcome to explain it too RC, even just acknowledging my suspicions would go a long way. If I'm right, then I'll unvote amd probably stay out of this duel unless it begins to drag out into our time to debate our lynch.

What suspicions? Do you actually suspect RC?

Something can’t be half PL / half scum read. That makes no sense and is disingenuous.

[Amrun]

So much cog diss

eth0s/QC scumteam ez game

[Amrun]

@Dannflor:

Actually, it was you who had me reconsider! I did note that in a post somewhere. You said it would be more likely scum would post more carefully and I re-evaluated and decided that was true, and even though the posts were wishy washy, they were so noncongruous that scum would have been more careful. Right now I feel like eth0s will flip scum, as well, and there’s zero chance of eth0s/RC team.

I never townread eth0s. I slightly scumread eth0s, then he answered my questions and they were satisfactory, which is when I said I was feeling better that you quoted. However, his reaction to the slightest amount of pressure on him reads like scum throwing a fit so I think he will flip scum.

[Amrun]

I see. How strong is your town read on RC now?

Also, where do you look if eth0s flips town?

You've listed eth0s/QC and eth0s/FL as possible teams. Are these strictly team reads or do you have a strong individual scum read on one or both of those two slots?

I think QC is scum independent of eth0s flip but I do think the case is much stronger if eth0s flips scum.

I certainly understand your questioning re: RC as I didn’t make myself very clear. I have been busy with holiday travel, a sick toddler, and a sick husband (like a big toddler ) and haven’t had time to post much but slapdash, and frankly, the way the dueling mechanic has been handled has demotivated me. I don’t personally see a problem with allowing my reads to transition as the game progresses, though. Right now, with the progression of the emotion-fueled eth0s duel and expression or regret afterwards, I don’t see that coming from scum. I think RC is town.

[Amrun]

BTW a big reason amrun is scum is the way her read has developed on me. Specifically saying she thinks I would flip scum now even tho there's literally no reason for me to be lying right now since the day continues as normal anyway.

Think about it. No more duels today, and we aren't going straight to night. Her feelings on my slot are straight up fabricated.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

I have a migraine so I’m a little disconnected right now. I didn’t notice you saying that until after I made that post. I do doubt you would lie post hammer.

Regardless, I did think you would flip scum. It seems you won’t. Sorry, because I enjoy playing with you, but I really don’t understand your obstinance this game if you are town.

[Amrun]

Hi, I'm back. Sorry.

This isn’t enough.

[Amrun]

VOTE: qc

[Amrun]

Radiant Cowbells (L-4)

: noone

eth0s (L-3)

: GuiltyLion

Amrun, Dannflor, Lovebird, Fishy Logic, Quantifiable Conundrum

Can two duels even happen simultaneously? This is getting out of hand. At least this duel is pretty good.

Scummy post from amrun

In what way?

[Amrun]

Radiant Cowbells (L-4)

: noone

eth0s (L-3)

: GuiltyLion

Amrun, Dannflor, Lovebird, Fishy Logic, Quantifiable Conundrum

Can two duels even happen simultaneously? This is getting out of hand. At least this duel is pretty good.

Scummy post from amrun

In what way?

It's an empty comment.

Sure it is. It does at least state that the duel contains a scumread for me. It’s less empty than 90% of your ISO. I have plenty of content. This is a stretch.

[Amrun]

It’s less empty than 90% of your ISO.

Omgus

Basic fact.

[Amrun]

Radiant Cowbells (L-4)

: noone

eth0s (L-3)

: GuiltyLion

Amrun, Dannflor, Lovebird, Fishy Logic, Quantifiable Conundrum

Can two duels even happen simultaneously? This is getting out of hand. At least this duel is pretty good.

Scummy post from amrun

In what way?

It's an empty comment.

Sure it is. It does at least state that the duel contains a scumread for me. It’s less empty than 90% of your ISO. I have plenty of content. This is a stretch.

Which duel had a scumread in it? Who's the scum read?

Very, very clearly, the RC/eth0s duel with eth0s as the scumread.

I didn’t develop my QC scumread until well after the duel that involved him.

[Amrun]

^ scum scum scum scum scuuuuum

[Amrun]

You’re doing a fine job of elaborating for me every time you post.

[Amrun]

Worry about associates post flip.

[Amrun]

Amrun serious question

Are you good at mafia

Questionable. I’ve been away for a long time. This is my first stint of games back in like six years.

Traditionally in the past it was game dependent. I might be misread as scummy in one game and mislynched, and in a concurrent game killed N1 by scum scared of me.

[Amrun]

Amrun serious question

Are you good at mafia

Are you?

[Amrun]

Not asking about your mislynch rate

How consistently are your scumreads scum

IMO, higher than the average player. But I have been away a long time. In fairness.

[Amrun]

Amrun serious question

Are you good at mafia

Are you?

I've been thinking about how to answer this.

When you played, players existed that had reputations as phenomenal townies but numerically your top performers with decent sample sizes only hit 65%ish winrates max.

My current winrate as town is over 70% having to juggle being essentially policy scumread in situations like Eth0s (notably no one besides me who was ever a top town player was a top scum player), having to juggle the fact that my playstyle makes people decide to be my enemy on principle a lot of the time, having to juggle the fact that I really do need certain things from town to be able to perform and the difference between me getting them is me solving games D1 or D2 versus just struggling.

The only people who beat my town performance statistically are Ellibereth who uses computer programs to help his scumhunting and Northsidegal who 1) is the absolute greatest tbh and 2) learned a lot from me.

Yes, I'm good at mafia.

I think towns tried a lot harder and the overall game had a little more nuance to it when I last played. I think you take someone like Glork in this meta and he would fucking destroy. But the point I was trying to determine is, you have confidence.

[Amrun]

That said I really don't know.

I'm assuming based on historical present that scum is lurking because almost universally when I misread slots it's because they lurked.

I can see worlds where QC is town or scum, but I would really want to know what his partner is first. Like, I think he would be a good slot to not bring to 3 way as a 4 way lynch but the idea of lynching him here scares me with GL and Dann in absentia

I think QC could be scum with quite a few people. I don’t see any lack of scum team pairings here.

QC/Lovebird is the easiest solve, but probably ONE of this pair is town. GL and dann could work as QC partners.

The easiest example of a QC partner that makes sense is you, though.

However, I prefer to speculate about this things to the full extent once we have the flip in hand.

If the player is scummy, lynch them. It’s not that hard. It really is that simple sometimes.

[Amrun]

I think GL is my strongest townread

[Amrun]

Also...

Elements: please kill cyrus62 slot so we don’t have to replace it. His predecessor was scummy. Firebringer has said he will kill FL

[Amrun]

Quantifiable Conundrum (L-2)

: Amrun, GuiltyLion

Lovebird (L-3)

: Quantifiable Conundrum

Guilty Lion(L-2)

: Fishy Logic, RadiantCowbells

Dannflor, Lovebird

Fuck, wrong game for that last post. my bad.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Lovebird

I would townread her at this point if she was town

I would be ok with this wagon, but who is scum with Lovebird, according to you?

[Amrun]

Amrun, why is GL your top town read?

General feeling of genuine solving throughout the game and mindmelding. I’ve been feeling this way since very early on. It’s not like”oh, GL is never scum here,” but right now he’s who I’d want at endgame with me if we got there.

[Amrun]

I only trust Amrun right now and I think anybody turbo dueling is scum claiming

That’s funny cuz I really really really want to turbo duel before someone else does it stupidly. But I’m being good for now.

[Amrun]

QC/RC scumteam calling it fuck now, will duel either one to death.

[Amrun]

Amrun why RC as the partner over Dann?

I'm waffling a lot on that one and FMPOV it feels like both of them tried at various points to set me up as the fall guy if QC got flipped

He blatantly sidestepped calling QC scum for weak reasons but stopped short of defending him.

[Amrun]

If everyone is going to ignore QC scum just because he’s a newbie I will duel him.

[Amrun]

No one is ignoring QC scum

I am literally the only person in this game who has townread him ever

Literally no one but me cared to lynch him yesterday, so no.

[Amrun]

I'm tired

I wouldn't be ~the way I am~ in this game if I were scum

QC from your point of view if you're town I should be clearer than from anyone elses because it would have been trivial to let Lovebird lynch you and then lynch her today for it and the fact that you're turning on me doesn't give me any good feelings about your slot

My scum play to avoid BoP this year has pretty consistently to let town mislynch each other while I pushed my 'deepwolf reads' but wait to kill those deepwolf reads until too late in the game for town to react to their townflips. If you think that I'm scum I deliberately dueled Eth0s to have an excuse to avoid the nightkill, I wouldn't then also shit lynch Lovebird when I could have lynched essentially anyone and fmpov it's kind of obvious that QC/me isn't a thing?

Amrun you just finished a game with me and you know that I was trying to meticulously plan our associatives. Do you really think that I interact with a partner the way I interacted with QC?

Like fmpov town should be more concerned with me that I was holding QC around so that you could all mislynch him in lylo a la Gameshow Mafia but no one has even brought it up?

This is a fair point but there’s a reason QC should die first. He’s one I’m 100% sure on. Dann COULD be QC partner. But I think it’s you.

[Amrun]

Definitely wouldn’t have let Dann sweet talk me into taking off my tinfoil about RC if I was scum with RC. Just sayin.

Can we be lynching QC please now? Thanks.

[Amrun]

Amrun, you don't think me and RC can be buddies right?

What does it tell you that I still maintain a strong town read on him?

Uh, I kind of do?? But I don’t think it’s especially likely. Just not impossible.

You probably know RC better than me, so your read on him is probably more reliable than mine. And it’s not an especially self serving stance to take to townread RC at this juncture (for you). So town points for you I guess.

[Amrun]

I just want to lynch QC, see who gets NK, and re-eval tomorrow.

[Amrun]

If I’m not dead. But either way I think the NK will be illuminating.

[Amrun]

Wait why?? Have I missed some aspect of this set up?

[Amrun]

Yeah I kinda forgot about that I guess. I was thinking of lynching but it does make more sense to duel here.

[Amrun]

Quantifiable Conundrum, Radiant Cowbells,
Dannflor, Amrun, GuiltyLion

Nah I just get caught up in other stuff and forget details. Especially because I’m usually posting at work.

If I sat down and thought about what game I’m in and what the set up is first I wouldn’t do that.

[Amrun]

Which is probably an indication I need to do that before posting but WELP

[Amrun]

I don't think Amrun should just get to mislynch me because she scumreads me when I think I've been objectively obvtown

This is a scummy thing to say.

[Amrun]

Like the best reason to scumread me last game was me lurking instead of calling Dongempire on his shit. You're scumreading me for doing the opposite of that

Do you really think you would have scumread me if you were town last game, Amrun?

Last game? No probably not.

[Amrun]

I just caught up.

VOTE: QC

[Amrun]

Excellent game, RC. I had a lot of fun.

I just went with my ~~soul~~ last dayphase. Hope it was fun for you.

Sorry we couldn’t do any of our planned gambits in either game.

[Amrun]

WHAT ARE THE ODDS THAT AMRUN/RC ARE SCUM TOGETHER IN TWO DIFFERENT GAMES

not gonna lie I was straight up gambler's fallacy-ing that possibility

It is actually pretty funny.

We abandoned a plan to speed duel each other this phase because the other game ended and we were worried people would realize we were fine bussing each other.

[Amrun]

Well I was right about amrun scum and right that rc wasnt really scumreading me so I'm okay with these flips tbh

Eth0s, you were right. So sorry.


I had a slow start to this game anyway because of how the start fell over the holidays and stuff.


Ok to release scum PT

[Amrun]

The win feels so empty

Even when I effort as scum and win it feels so devoid of meaning. I need a break.

It may be because it’s short. Short scum games with no scum lynches go so fast.

[Amrun]

lmao stop rolling scum you two

Never

[Amrun]

Menalque, do you spectate every micro?