Changes to Normal Games (update September 2022)

[Dunnstral]

Note that in the case of an ascetic, they can still be targeted by abilities in a backup state, as their role does nothing. The key difference in the case of the doctor is that "investigate as having no gun" is

not

a passive property of the doctor.

It's a passive property of the gunsmith

, that they investigate doctors as having no gun. The backup role doing nothing does nothing to affect the gunsmith's result, because even though a backup doctor does nothing, it

is

a doctor with a modifier on it, and in normal games gunsmiths get no gun results on doctors.

A quick look at the Gunsmith role tells me that my interpretation is correct:

Normal Guidelines

In Normal games on mafiascum.net, a Gunsmith gets guilties on all Mafia (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops,

Backups of roles with guns

and JoATs that have any of these listed powers.

[gobbledygook]

I will hard veto and lobby against any game especially normals to include Vanillalizer as a role. That role is so incredibly unfun to play against as town.

[Amrun]

I will hard veto and lobby against any game especially normals to include Vanillalizer as a role. That role is so incredibly unfun to play against as town.

I don’t see why?

I mean, straight up mountainous is fun. For me at least.

I don’t think it should be used often. I just don’t know why it’s not an option.

[Wake1]

I think we need more flavor roles like Gunsmith.

Like how a role can check for guns across various roles, have another check for, say, specific clothing, etc.

[gobbledygook]

I will hard veto and lobby against any game especially normals to include Vanillalizer as a role. That role is so incredibly unfun to play against as town.

I don’t see why?

I mean, straight up mountainous is fun. For me at least.

I don’t think it should be used often. I just don’t know why it’s not an option.

For balancing purposes, it is like giving the mafia a vigilante kill. It removes a town power in addition to the factional kill.

[RadiantCowbells]

For balancing purposes, it is like giving the mafia a vigilante kill. It removes a town power in addition to the factional kill.

A vig kill speeds up lylo

This is a really bad take

[skitter30]

I think we need more flavor roles like Gunsmith.

Like how a role can check for guns across various roles, have another check for, say, specific clothing, etc.

i like this idea

[Wake1]

I think we need more flavor roles like Gunsmith.

Like how a role can check for guns across various roles, have another check for, say, specific clothing, etc.

i like this idea

Like, create a role called the "Tailor," who can check and see who's wearing a suit or isn't. Then we decide which PRs wear suits and which don't.

[gobbledygook]

Vanilla cop and it’s ilk already do that to an extent. Same with PT cop and traffic analyst.

[Gamma Emerald]

I will hard veto and lobby against any game especially normals to include Vanillalizer as a role. That role is so incredibly unfun to play against as town.

MAFIA vanillaizer sure. Town vanillaizer can be interesting (though I still firmly believe it to be not-normal).

[Gamma Emerald]

What Town roles would wear a suit btw
I like the idea but imo it has very limited unique utility

[Amrun]

I will hard veto and lobby against any game especially normals to include Vanillalizer as a role. That role is so incredibly unfun to play against as town.

I don’t see why?

I mean, straight up mountainous is fun. For me at least.

I don’t think it should be used often. I just don’t know why it’s not an option.

For balancing purposes, it is like giving the mafia a vigilante kill. It removes a town power in addition to the factional kill.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

It would need to be balanced carefully but it is NOT like a vigilante kill.

[Wake1]

What Town roles would wear a suit btw
I like the idea but imo it has very limited unique utility

Or maybe a uniform?

Cops wear uniforms.

A doctor wears scrubs.

I don't know.

I do know the Gunsmith role is an example of where Mafia could be expanded next.

I should create a themed Mafia game using this kind of angle, and perhaps those roles could become Normalized.

A Tailor could check what kind of clothing someone is wearing. A Chef could perhaps tell what kind of food a PR would like. I don't know.

More roles exactly like the Gunsmith. That, I think, is the way to expand this game Normally.

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright, so Cops would pretty clearly like donuts, what about some other roles?

[Amrun]

I don’t think those types of roles belong in Normals. However, they could be very fun in a theme.

[Gamma Emerald]

Says the guy lobbying for Normalized Vanillaizer

[Wake1]

Alright, so Cops would pretty clearly like donuts, what about some other roles?

We've got Babysitter, Fruit Vendor, Defective, Mailman, Psychologist...

We Just need to create more job-like roles, and then flesh them out more. And these jobs could act similar to the Gunsmith, providing information without definitely proving someone's guilt.

If I create another large theme game I could create many more roles similar to the Gunsmith, and try to flesh out identifiable information attached to each role.

[Wake1]

I don’t think those types of roles belong in Normals. However, they could be very fun in a theme.

They're basically just like the Gunsmith, but different variations.

The Gunsmith checks if someone else owns a gun. The "X" role checks if that other player has a "Y".

[Amrun]

Says the guy lobbying for Normalized Vanillaizer

A vanillaizer is a long standing role that everyone is familiar with.

These new variants change how we think about the game and would have people needing to look them up, so they’re not normal. Totally viable roles though.

[chennisden]

I think gating vanillaizer would be ideal if it were used

Probably limited shot

I think it rewards scumteams who can find PRs better significantly more so the pro is it gives them more agency but the con is it might introduce swing.

[Gamma Emerald]

Says the guy lobbying for Normalized Vanillaizer

A vanillaizer is a long standing role that everyone is familiar with.

These new variants change how we think about the game and would have people needing to look them up, so they’re not normal. Totally viable roles though.

Wasn't Gunsmith like that when it was introduced?
And "long standing" + "familiar" doesn't make it fair at all.

[Amrun]

Says the guy lobbying for Normalized Vanillaizer

A vanillaizer is a long standing role that everyone is familiar with.

These new variants change how we think about the game and would have people needing to look them up, so they’re not normal. Totally viable roles though.

Wasn't Gunsmith like that when it was introduced?
And "long standing" + "familiar" doesn't make it fair at all.

If I thought vanillizer was unfair, I’d agree with you. Being long-standing doesn’t give it a pass. Being new doesn’t make it not good. I don’t think there’s a need for Tailor, but if we normalized/standardized what roles had what clothes, it could work. I just think that design space is already filled with gunsmith.

But I agree that vanillizer rewards good scum play and can even have cool design application as town. I don’t think it should be used a lot but I think nothing makes it ABNORMAL.

[TemporalLich]

vanillaizer is a very strong scum role and a pretty weak town role

It's almost as strong as giving scum a vigilante, but town might see it as negative utility.

[popsofctown]

I think a Disloyal N1 Town Vanilliser is an ok role for a normal

[gobbledygook]

did we ever fully put to test addressing the motion sensor/follower/voyeur stuff? I think those roles can be broken into component parts/modified enough that putting them into circulation would increase the diversity of normals.