Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[skitter30]

yo

VOTE: teacher

@implosion i am regularly vla on fridays and saturdays

[skitter30]

Serious vote. The party time post rubbed me the wrong way.

i don't really see anything in that post

[skitter30]

but there's a little party hat

Why are you defending Plum? If it was a random statement they could say so. Now you’ve given them an out.

are you usually this aggressive ?
i feel like you're trying to attack tris here for a fairly innocuous statement

[skitter30]

yo

VOTE: teacher

@implosion i am regularly vla on fridays and saturdays

I just want to be friends with this vote so much.

heya teacher <3

[skitter30]

what's garcia'ing?

[skitter30]

i mean ... that's kinda how this game tends to be played

[skitter30]

math what was tris's post fishing for and what were you expecting?

[skitter30]

Yes. I like to get things started fast and quick. Whether my first impressions are right or wrong it helps get people talking and moves us out of RVS into content and gives less room for scum to hide in.

i kind of want to vote you but i'm not sure if it's a playstyle thing

early townpings on plum, i think

[skitter30]

lol

[skitter30]

They did. Quite simply put the post is unnecessary. It fishes for what I was expecting then you can mirror. Garcia’ing in the early game is almost always bad.

"bad" as in scum equity from tris or "bad" because perceived reduced utility in grilling me over the phrase "it's party time"

Bad as in denies reads which is proscum.

Unless you have a good reason garcia’ing in the early game is bad as it tends to monopolize conversation through one spot.

Also bad because if denied me reads on you and if my gut was correct or not.

you realize you're railing against p much exactly what you're doing, right?

i'm not saying it's inherently a bad thing, as you did just single-handedly move the game out of rvs, but i think your complaint about garcia'ing is kinda silly

[skitter30]

how did you get scared out of that, pray tell?

pedit @math

[skitter30]

actually maybe not townpings on plum

[skitter30]

math what was tris's post fishing for and what were you expecting?

Tris’s post was fishing for what I expected out of Plum.

Didn’t seem all that bad >> I either explain how it is bad, giving Plum an out if they are scum with Tris
Or if Plum is town Tris scum >> Gets me shit talking about town.

Either way it was just bad.

i think it's a response to 'it's party time' and that you're reading too much into it

[skitter30]

Why does this feel truthful and icky at the same time? I don’t know why. Does anyone else see this or is it just me?

oh yeah that's why i rescinded the townpings, it felt weird

[skitter30]

it (usually) takes me a while to move votes
(although i guess i've been kinda breaking out of that meta recently)

idk why i didn't actually switch the vote there

i kinda want to vote plum tho

VOTE: plum

[skitter30]

rc are you going to be communicating through those for long, because it's going to get annoying really quickly

[skitter30]

ya

[skitter30]

ok, why do you like my vote on you?

[skitter30]

I'll tell you honestly the only reason for me to say "it's party time" there was a reference to the avatar thing me and my team have going on. However you read the choice to open with fluff, I'll tell you 100% NAI the reason that phrase came up is that

I'm saying this to try to help you get back your lost gut read in some capacity

this felt weird tonally ^

like too defensive and aggressive and i don't know the right words but like too ~strong~ a reponse to math calling her out for a what was basically a meme rvs post on a read that was basically irrelevant

[skitter30]

If you have a point please shrink your pictures or ideally use words.

mostly because they're massive and are bigger than my computer screen; i wouldn't mind as much if i didn't have to scroll past so many

i could see tris/plum being tvs

[skitter30]

ok

i was just going to shitpost but it's already that time

VOTE: Mathblade

this is scum.

ok why?
i can't tell if i don't like his playstyle or what he's posting

@teacher i'm on chrome and they were massive

[skitter30]

math i was using it generically like 'i could see there being one scum and one town in that pair' but i don't know which is which yet, atm i'm leaning towards plum
i could actually see svs too tbh

[skitter30]

do you two have a thing math/rc?

[skitter30]

ya i was a little surprised that he called you town for voting him @rc

[skitter30]

And their tone leans a lot further to their scum game atm.

what's the difference?

[skitter30]

math i was using it generically like 'i could see there being one scum and one town in that pair' but i don't know which is which yet, atm i'm leaning towards plum
i could actually see svs too tbh

So can you like back anything up with reasons? Like thoughts?

VOTE: Skitter30

i literally just described what i didn't like about plum like five minutes ago
and i say a lot of things/reads/opinions without like always listing all of the reasons for them, if you want more information you can just, like, ask

[skitter30]

eh i don't think it's ai for him tbh but i would like some thoughts on the game tbh

[skitter30]

ari might be town, rc might be town actually,
don't particularly like mathblade
don't particularly like plum

tris i don't really think i can read
teacher hasn't done anything ai for him

i don't have thoughts on anyone else who's posted, i think

i'm exhausted and going to bounce; i may or may not be around tomorrow depending on work, if not then not till saturday night

[skitter30]

Ok i have 20 min, let's see how far i get

[skitter30]

rc might be town actually,

why

Idk, it was kinda gut.
Trying to put it into words think it's stemming from the fact that you feel utterly agendaleas

[skitter30]

you have never townread me as town in the last 2 years of our mutual history. why are you townreading me here?

Should i be alarmed by the fact that i feel this way, then?

[skitter30]

Trim talk about Plum town or scum and why?

eh, not much of a read yet. the skitter read might come from town.

Then who are you supposing I am scum with? Your vote is on me.

What are you doing to find my nonexistent buddies?

This is an asinine question at this stage of the game

do u want to just antispew and stop wasting everyone's time because your slot is done.

I am sorry. Since when do we wait on flips to get people to talk about slots?

Bleh this is lamist

i think that mathblade is scum with implosion

i am a gunsmith and can confirm that implosion has not one but two guns

Can you like stop faking shit already?

We all know you’re a super arrogant asshole and I am trying desperately not to repeat my mistake when you fake claimed PGO and I had proof it was impossible but ugh you are making it really hard not to rage at you right now.

Rc in like a general sense, how does scum!math interact with you?

. Reread the opening.

Does the assumption hold? If yes why, if not why not?

If not what of your beliefs are right and what are wrong?

You’re just stating things and not having umph behind it.

I feel like how ylu expect tris to be reading/analyzing the game is a fairly high expectation given that the game had been ongoing for like .... two hours in-real-time and people had been posting fairly continuously throughout, and tris had been posting fairly continously throughout too

Meh, I like Math for town atm. Good strong read tbh.

Why tho

[skitter30]

ok so who are we voting now

i have a better vote

VOTE: Plum

no i never called you town but I was mostly just looking to see how people reacted to an early push

Huh

[skitter30]

Going “omg I am being voted” is antitown.

no I don't think responding to/commenting on your strongest scumread moving their vote to you is "antitown" but depending on what you say it could look *scummy*, sure

PEDIT: Okay hm

UNVOTE:

I'm confused by the unvote

[skitter30]

Actually kinda like the reasoning for plum's unvote
UNVOTE:

Dont particularly like tw's entrance tho.

[skitter30]

It felt very ... hesitant is a good word

Unfortunately i gotta get to work now and i'm not sure i'll be around for the rest of today

[skitter30]

I havent read that far yet, i'm working on it. I'm on like p9 or something

Wrt to plum i continued reading

my vote was half because I thought you were more capable of reading MathBlade through his playstyle than me and were indicating a strong read and half because I held out a faint hope that seeing how he responded to pressure might make him more readable to me in and of itself

your unvote means that neither of those is really incentivizing a MathBlade vote anymore, so

I thought this bit was kinda townie ^
It demonstrates a level of analysis and carry-through that i think is kinda hard for scum to fake, esp since the unvote was instantaneous and in like real-time/in a pedit

[skitter30]

mm early townpings from mathblade are shrinkign

Lol the fact you have town pings at all is a bad look for you considering the powers game where you if I recall correctly said you’d be slower at giving them out. Like certain people townreading me fast is a bad thing. You’re one of them.

Do you like base your perception of tw's game off of this one or something ^

[skitter30]

I'm not sure i see what everyone is seeing in ari

[skitter30]

mm early townpings from mathblade are shrinkign

Lol the fact you have town pings at all is a bad look for you considering the powers game where you if I recall correctly said you’d be slower at giving them out. Like certain people townreading me fast is a bad thing. You’re one of them.

Do you like base your perception of tw's game off of this one or something ^

I base my perception of people based on prior games of them yes. It’s meta reading.

The way you worded it pinged me but i dont know why yet

[skitter30]

What has Ari done besides buddy me and RC?

Ok where do you think he did that?
I'm not sure this is the right question to be asking / right approach to be taking wrt him either

[skitter30]

Tw what's your read on ico?

[skitter30]

anyone have strong feelings on this
ico it feels like you've compiled a list of things which ~look~ bad about plum but i don't feel really compelled to believe that these make you think she's scum

Oh
Yeah

This is kinda basically what i was thinking too
It kinda felt like he saw plum was a thing so he decided to join it and come up with reasons why

And i didnt like that he started his entrance calling my plum vote yuck, and then voted/cased her without really getting back to why he didnt like mine

[skitter30]

What has Ari done besides buddy me and RC?

Ok where do you think he did that?
I'm not sure this is the right question to be asking / right approach to be taking wrt him either

The quick townread on me.
Meme posting with RC.

I thought him going after tris was p good, actually, for him
The meming i dont think is ai at all
The townread on you was kinda weird, yeah

[skitter30]

4 pages in and my notes say lynch one of plum, math, Skitter, Ari.

Tris and Teacher town. RC is townish.

Do tell on me and teacher

[skitter30]

starting to think ur town duck, hopefully i'm not wrong cuz i'll b mad

I dont see it

[skitter30]

Here’s a question to think about while I am at work Skitter:

His scumreads iirc are Plum Tris and you. Do you think that’s really off base and advantageous or genuine?

I agreed with plum at the time
Tris i didnt but there i liked the way he approached it, i can pull it up in a second
I dont think he particularly knows how to read me so i didnt pay much attnetion to it. Honestly didnt know/realize/remember that he was scumreading me till you said it just now

[skitter30]

i wouldn't say so. sometimes i guess.

Cool cool cool

I ask because while your initial post about the party hat was innocuous, your responses to Math calling it out were a little less so. I could see it from a newbie or someone like Nancy Drew (sorry my compadre but it's apt and I know you understand) who is more likely to take things more emotionally or personally on a quick read. You seemed a lot more ruffled by Math than you needed to be.

VOTE: Tris

I think this a decent start to the game and have a few decent reads already, which is nice

I thought this was a townie approach, even if i didnt agree with it ^

[skitter30]

I'll go into the why after Teacher answers my question but I'm reading the why and not the read itself. Which is where the inferred meld comes from.

I'm p sure he was responding to me saying i didnt like the giant rc images and not giving a read of rc there

[skitter30]

So Ico what's your take on me rn

UNVOTE:

I dont understand this unvote

[skitter30]

I have another scumread shared with a teammate in teacher, which I'm holding for the moment in case the lack of desktop access was changing stuff there.

I dont think he's done anything ai yet

[skitter30]

that's the read that piqued my curiosity the most too - she's finding him a bit too compromisey, doesn't feel like his posting trajectory reads true and like he's been responding to kinda.. odd things.

i don't disagree with her, but i'm not confident i can read him yet.

I dont really get where any of this rce is coming from

[skitter30]

Ok i didnt quite finish but i gotta bounce
Town: probably rc, probably tris, maybe plum, maybe rce, maybe ari
Not town: ico, tw, bella

Math i'm on the fence, i put him on both lists like three times but kept switching him since neither feels quite right. Gun to head i would say town and that what i dont like is more a playstyle difference than anything else

I kinda feel like math/rc would clash more if they were tvs

i like both plum/tris independantly, but i've been getting plum/tris vibes together, which might be a weird thing to say, but there you go

Teacher still hasnt done anything ai and i'm waiting for the weekend to form a read cuz i think he will be around more then

Oh yeah xtoxm's entrance was p bad too

VOTE: ico

[skitter30]

I dont think you have

[skitter30]

What do you think i ought to be thinking is town-indicative?

[skitter30]

1. Been monitoring your post count and it has not reached the threshold that i can point to it and say: this is unlikely to come from scum!you. That's not to say that i think it *does* - i'm saying i dont know yet and the information i need isnt here yet, and i'm aware of that
Actually i'm kinda baffled why you'd think i'd be able to make that determination at this point, i dont think i've ever called you town for this reason this early like ever, it's the kind of determination that comes later after more like real-time had passed
In fact this game looks a lot like c9++ wrt your activity imo and i was saying that for like irl days, if not weeks, iirc
You're not in the game yet, you often can't post during working houes on week days, and i feel like your contributions have been flat. It could be entirely access/time-of-day related, which is why i'm holding off

2. I pushed back on the tl because i dont think you've reached that point yet

3. Idk entirely what you're trying to say here. I feel like i am being *very* conscious of the fact that town!you takes time to ramp up which is why i am *not* making a read here yet

I feel like you're conflating 'not wanting to make a read yet because i think i can read you better later' with 'scumleaning/reading you rn', and i feel like you're imposing an unrealistic standard on what my read on you should currently be given how i historically have read you

[skitter30]

Also what's the second thing that i have called town-indicative in the past?

[skitter30]

Ok.
I dont remember that being particularly town-indicative for you

[skitter30]

I mean, i didnt think so either ...

I dont particularly like this push on me, i think

[skitter30]

You do you. I was wrong and owned it. Dunno what else you want. It felt like more than it was.

i want to circle-back to how/why you were expecting me to be able to read you (i.e. on postcount) by that point

[skitter30]

96 of skitters is really, really damaging to my town read. 'could be this, or that. or that'. Yes, that's the game.

if i knew, i would have said so, and i said which one i thought was more likely, ty

343 etc were the posts I felt bad about 'theory crafting' from Enigma earlier. Posts like 359 are making me wonder if this is just my personality disliking the self aware/removed tone.

i think that's a normal tone for him

Skitters posting is not improving.

do tell

why do your teammates like that plum checked in with her team about ari?

[skitter30]

Rescinding my early townread on Teacher, we aren't on the wavelength regarding RC that I thought we were. The timing just made it seem like he was seeing what I was seeing. I'm also kind of attributing it to the fact I wasn't around during that time.

what were you seeing about rc there?

also i think that this probably comes from town ^

[skitter30]

Ok

VOTE: skitter this is so upsetting

oh *do* tell

[skitter30]

Mathblade's page one is super weird, really aggressive for no reason. Stands out the worst 13

Given it was a pretty odd opinion and Mathblade is smart I figured he was taking a stance on something in order to kick the game off. This is what promoted my initial weak townpings actually - it felt like he seemed unafraid to look like kinda sloppy and not-towny in exchange for generating content.

I think I like this from you but I'm not fully sure why yet. Let me wake up.

ya that's what i thought he was doing too
the thing is that i think he's capable of doing that as scum and i don't think it's ai

and i kinda hate the lamist-y stuff he says
and the aggressiveness
and his demands are kinda unreasonable for the stage of the game that he's asking them for (i.e. with asking tris for who his scumbuddies would be)

=

I will prod Dodge for a few days to let people get a more solid footing if the pace is already too high. This is rescinded if anyone hits L-2

UNVOTE:

tyty i appreciate it and i'm trying not to spam either
idk if i'm doing such a good job at it either, but i'm trying

=

Still don't feel teacher has done much AI and ngl I don't see why he unvoted skitter

i don't get the vote *or* the unvote or why he thinks i should be thinking he *has* done ai stuff

=

Plums a bit of a posting non-entity to me. Like they are posting, and jiving, but nothing's sticking to the me or the gamestate.

i disagree on plum here
i do agree with you on bella and xtoxm tho

[skitter30]

tris is townie, i think

[skitter30]

This is also super weird: you vote Skitter30 for a meme vote but you're kinda acting like it's a serious vote.

i'm p sure it was a serious vote but it doesn't really make sense with his teacher read, i think

=

not like this. being worn out might be the reason but yeah.

i'm not sure he's like ~high-energy~ as town anymore
at least not until like later in the game

even saying that he feels more like ~washed-out~ than the last few times i've played with town!him
i don't particularly want to push this angle unless it's like still a thing by like ~eod/sod2

=

~special gamestate read~ exactly 1/2 of Tris/Plum is probably scum.

i said this before but from a gamestate perspective, i don't think they're both town and although i townread them independantly the first like ~4 pages of the game gave me svs vibes

=

none of skitter + plum + iconeum can reliably play on weekends as a general rule, i believe

yep, plum has the same kind of vla as me and ico also has weekend vla

=

*cough*
hey ducky
hows the scumhunting going?

this is icky

=

I read it the opposite way, feels like an artificial way of making the decision about a tone read look logical and impartial.

sure but i don't think ari tries to fake post in that fashion as scum
i probably should have specified like 'for ari' or something

[skitter30]

Rescinding my early townread on Teacher, we aren't on the wavelength regarding RC that I thought we were. The timing just made it seem like he was seeing what I was seeing. I'm also kind of attributing it to the fact I wasn't around during that time.

what were you seeing about rc there?

also i think that this probably comes from town ^

Specifically the image posting. Thought it was a good way for RC to give content/reads without being engaged in a way that makes him a target.

Town!RC has to figure out how not to be the night 1 target in this playerlist right. The aggressive approach gets him fearkilled or lynched. It's reasonable with this playerlist, I don't think there are many slots afraid of town!RC as scum here.

With that said, no one has tried to discredit anything coming from RC at all. So without RC posting anything strongly scum indicative, the gamestate says there's a nonzero chance RC is just scum here.

That's a really off-putting read for me and it feels weird saying it. Im inclined to out it out if my mind till tomorrow.

i was actually thinking the same thing about the images, that he was trying to be like non-antagonistic and like non-making-himself-the-center-of-attention

which i thought for him was townie

i think that scum!him would be more worried about setting the agenda, would try to play up the thing with math unless maybe they were scum together, wouldn't be as worried about taking over the thread/making it pleasant for other people

[skitter30]

yeah that's p much exactly what i was thinking

they're either tvt or svs because i think scum in that pair would have forced the argument earlier

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

yeah, town mathblade never ever ever calls me town on page 4 of a game.

Lol you haven’t played with me in more than a year and I have called you town early on before. Please continue being factually incorrect. It was the game we don’t speak of where I fucked up. Then you wouldn’t let it go and it caused me to scumread you. Don’t do this again please RC.

also he's called everyone voting him scum besides me b/c he knows that voting me really doesn't go anywhere. the townread on me is straight TMI.

That’s rich. You realize I called Plum/Tris/Skitter scum before their votes.

Dude I get it you hate my guts/think I suck/whatever

It’s really antitown what you’re doing here.

why am I town though?

Mix of Titus/ when you’re scum you don’t fake claim so early/ you’re less of an asshole (but still one)

i thought he was trying to de-escalate here ^

[skitter30]

How does Mathblade trying to de-escalate a conflict with me point away from Mathblade being scum and me being town?

Like if anything that looks like they're trying to appease me which if anything points to us not being aligned (or being TvT)?

i feel like you both have personalities where you'd try to force it day1 if you were scum, from what i've seen of you and what i understand of him

[skitter30]

i have no idea who's on his team
i don't perceive you as being conflict-avoiding as scum whatsoever

[skitter30]

like i think you're more conflict-forcing as scum than as town ...

[skitter30]

teacher i think can read me ok but his scumread of me here is p bad and concernign and i'm following up on that
want to talk to tw more about his scumread on me, yeah, kinda waiting for him to be around
bella's read was p bad but i have no reason to believe she can read me so. was kinda thinking that she saw the other reads and was band-wagoning cuz i don't entirely understand why she's scumreading me beyond 'dislike my posting'

not sure who else called me scum

i'm also aware that i sometimes start off a little slower but that i'm p good at obvtowning under pressure so i'm not particularly concerned

and i'm not calling you scum. i was more responding to something rce said

==
math i'm thinking of that mastina game which i wasn't in but vaguely spectated and as far as i know you two have a tendency to get toxic (jjh was also basically like 'yeah that's going to be a shitshow' when i said that math had repped in) and i think either of you would try to exploit that as scum to make the gamestate harder for everyone else to navigate

i think that you *not* doing that is town-indicative for you here

[skitter30]

i didn't ...

[skitter30]

i said if you're scum you're scum with math

i didn't say i thought you were scum and i don't know why you thought i did, i thought you were talking about rce

[skitter30]

it was more like i was saying that those are the worlds i think are most likely

and that's not how i read the situation

[skitter30]

yeah but that's not how i'm reading it rn and that's not me calling you scum rn

[skitter30]

rc you're really not good at reading me these days

[skitter30]

i mean ... you thought i was scum in the newbie we just played
thought i was scum in nomnom's open
thought i was scum in a different newbie that i was town in a dead thread that i can't find at the moment but i'll look for again if needed

so like in the past three games that i know you've read and/or were in you were wrong
and my game/playstyle has evolved a *lot* recently so no, i don't think you can read me rn
also since when do you think i lead towns off of cliffs ... ?

i think that you're only scum in the case where math is scum. i kinda hate his playstyle and there's particular things i don't like but i don't read your dynamic as svt rn, i think that your'e both the same alignment. that is how i read the situation, and i dislike that you're accusing me of trying to set up a mislynch on you when i am *not* going after math and i am *not* going after you and when i dont' know what either of you will flip.

i don't even know how you get to me trying to go after you when i'm trying to go after neither rn
and i feel like if i said i thought you were svt you'd have said the same thing ?
like the dynamic you're portraying means that there's no good answer to trying to give a gamestate read on your pair

i also don't particularly want to turn this game into a thing between us
(which is why i did blacklist you but was apparently ignored)

[skitter30]

i purposefully try to de-escalate as much as i possibly can so i'm actually kinda pissed that you think i'd go out of my way to force this

[skitter30]

and that you're going to drag me into this anyways when this is literally the last thing i wanted to do in this entire thing

[skitter30]

i was going to say something else but it's probably against site rules

[skitter30]

I townread you until you called me scum if a person whose lynch I was trying to prevent flipped town. (your reads sucked, mine didn't)
In this game you're essentially saying that if I lynch someone who you townread (again you having wrong reads and me not) then I'm scum because of it.

nope i acutally had better reads than you, at the point that you decided that i was scum pushing shitty reads, i went back to check
and now you're like pre-emptively saying that i'm trying to set up a lynch on you for saying that i don't think your dynamic is svt (again there is apparently literally no answer here that i could give that *wouldn't* be setting up a lynch on you apparently)

i'm literally going after *neither* of you and you're imagining scenarios that are several days away that necessitate both my reads be wrong and scum!me deciding it would be a good fucking idea to pick a fight with you, on purpose

and my reads aren't usually that shitty, definitely not my gamestate reads

and i'm pissed that you're setting me up to fail and that you're setting up an environment where we both know i'm going to rise to the bait and pick a fight with you
and yeah this does make me wonder about your alignment because why the fuck would you think that this is a good idea as town, to force this
like, what, you think i'm ultimately going to get paranoid so it's better to have a 1v1 and take over the whole game now when you know i think that this is an awful idea and you know i hate this

[skitter30]

Like put yourself in my perspective what am I supposed to do to avoid this besides lie down when you inevitably decide that I'm scum for whatever reason you're going to decide that I'm scum?

i mean ... i'm trying to read you and i was trying to play nice and not make a thing and wasn't even scumreading you so you just decided to pick a fight first just in case i later read you differently .. ?

like this is kinda where i was worried scum!you were going to go with math, basically

[skitter30]

you couldn't make it 22 posts in a game where the vast majority of the game has expressed townreads on me without calling me scum.
I do not think that you can handle the idea of me being alive in a game with you as town without the paranoia eating you alive. It's just not going to happen.

i don't know what the first line is referring to
and i think that the second line is an unfair characterization of my play

and yeah, congrats
you've kicked off the paranoia, good job

[skitter30]

I won't go after you, you don't go after me, if both of us are alive like way later in the game we do this but until then you don't go after me?

i mean ...
that's what i was trying to do ...

and now i'm thinking that you've decided it would be a good idea to lynch me or something because i have no idea why you think this entire conversation was a good idea as town

[skitter30]

do you need me to pull quotes, because if you need me to i will

and re-living that argument here is great for escalation, yay

[skitter30]

*de-escalation

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

i've disagreed with almost all ur takes in the recent games of urs that i've scumread and then i've called you scum and it's just turned out that you were wrong

idk what to say shrug

i think we're going to have a lot of trouble with each other / each other's reads this game

my top scumreads are

georgebailey

and

arkias

:v

i don't think us disagreeing on reads has to lead to personal conflict but i'm not going to derail a lynch that i want solely out of respect for you, is what i'm trying to say.

my third would be the late

pvturist

but i'm not sure if i'm reading him correctly on account of the fact that i'm mostly scumreading him for having a bad iso when most people have bad isos this game

i think we're going to have a lot of trouble with each other / each other's reads this game

i meant more in the sense of 'our reads aren't compatible at all' than in the sense of 'personal conflict', to clarify

vaguely townie:

naerys

,

georgebailey

,

pvturist

vaguely scummy:

bugspray

,

bigfatdonald

null / idk: everyone else

confidence level: pretty low

well

yeah

that's a problem

there you go ^

this is why we shouldn't play together
i dont' understand why you're picking a fight with me
i don't understand why you've decided to make this literally the least enjoyable you possibly can for me

i don't understand what possible town motivation you could have for doing this

[skitter30]

like "this isnt what I think is true" isnt a defense when clearly I don't agree with you that Mathblade is town? Like if you said "oh if [top mutual townread] flips scum" sure

ya and again:

- literally put me in a scenario where any possible read i gave on you/mathblade is wrong and gives you a reason to go after me
- i see like no reason to believe why i should trust your reads over mine

[skitter30]

ok here's the thing
my reads at the beginning of the day mean nothing
your reads at the beginning of the day mean nothing
you know that i don't police the early reads that i declare because i consider it all part of a process to get the same results
so you bringing up the argument "well BEFORE rc was actually sure who he wanted to lynch he was wrong" doesn't say a whole lot

having a correct read at one point in a day doesn't mean anything if you turn around and push a mislynch anyway.

yeah i don't agree with this mindset
my point is that this argument mirrors that one

[skitter30]

rc why are you picking a fight with me

[skitter30]

rc my point is that we literally had the exact same argument at the point of the game where my reads were better so i have no reason to listen to your reads here

and yeah so now i think you're scum trying to tilt me out of this
and yeah you've induced the paranoia that you're apparently trying to avoid

i think it's unfair and scummy to characterize me scumreading you as me trying to pl you (especially when i was not, in fact scumreading you at that point, as we clarified about four different times)
i think it's unfair and scummy to pre-emptively take action against that at a point when you literally had no indication that i was going that route, and when i was walking carefully around you to make sure i *didn't* go that route until/unless i really did scumread you

rc just like ...
what the fuck

[skitter30]

like i don't even have words to properly explain how upset this has made me

i want to vote you now but i don't know if i scumread you or if i'm pissed at you or both

[skitter30]

and i can't believe that all 4 of you decided that this was a good idea

[skitter30]

i wasn't mad at the werewords tokens i was just saying that the images were annoying because they were massive and scrolling past them was a pain

that wasn't me instigating anything, that wasn't me getting mad, that was just me saying that it was annoying and i would have said that to literally anyone else

and yeah this situation was shitty from the time the pls were announced but i think the way you lot decided to handle it was wrong on about 4000 different levels
and i think you should just know better than this

and i think you're being unfair wrt your expectations of how i would play this
and i don't know why you'd ever do this as town but i can imagine a lot of reasons you'd think this is a good idea as scum so

[skitter30]

yeah it really fucking wasn't

[skitter30]

i tried responding to that about 4 times but i don't even know how to articulate how messed up that thought process is

i think i'm going to bounce now

[skitter30]

well that was for the post above that one

you realize that there's a decent chance i just get resolved by eating the nk here, right?

[skitter30]

My team said this would happen and I opened this can of worms.

yeah i was trying to avoid it, thanks

[skitter30]

well that was for the post above that one

you realize that there's a decent chance i just get resolved by eating the nk here, right?

no

you don't

because you're defending scum

rc i've gotten n1'd recently after lolhammering a town doctor

i think it's ridiculously unfair and scummy and just .... egocentric of you to decide to fucking pl me before i made any indication that i was going after you
so that you could avoid being n1'd

just like ...

you realize i'm good at this, right?
a) so there's apparently no other way i could get resolved here
b) instead of letting me do my thing (which we both know i'm good at) for a bit you decide that pl'ing me and forcing a shitty gamestate and just removing me from the game was the best course of action

like ...

[skitter30]

Sorry. I should have avoided the question. But I also didn't want you to continue avoiding me because my paranoia was escalating.

i have no idea how i'm avoiding you, sorry
but i really think i should stop posting now

[skitter30]

VOTE: rc

i really think i should stop posting now

[skitter30]

vla for like a day

i've been having a ~not great~ weekend and i don't think i'm up to this rn
i've been kinda reading a long but i haven't taken super much in

[skitter30]

this is an utterly pointless wagon if he isn't even around

[skitter30]

eh maybe i am up to it.
let's see how far i get

[skitter30]

I’ll circle back with you. I feel like I’m being freer here (yea, as plum(?) notes one liners and jokes) than I am when I’m scum, where even if I’m forcing content I’m forcing it to be contentful. Like the last time we talked I think I was a pure sortable by post count player. I don’t think that’s true any more, since I became aware of it, but after my last roll and reread, I still think the weight is different. It’s something I had made a note of, and so figured it would be something your meta mind might note as well. (Of course, bow that I’ve indicated awareness, and yoda yada).

Bottom line, I think we’re just still stuck at you not really reading me. Independent of our interactions, I still don’t “like” you that much this game, but I need to reread the RC 1v1 again to check myself. One of my teammates feels you for town in a way I don’t yet.

this is still the single-most important factor in my mind that i associate with reading you, and i don't think i've ever actually read that newbie scumgame of yours.
and by that metric, i don't think you'd obvtowned, and i don't think that it was reasonable of you to have expected me to think that you'd obvtowned at that point

and given how we've talked about 8 bajillion times about how i get ~wary~ when it sounds like you're pocketing me, and given that you're aware of that, your vote kinda made me wonder if scum!you would be trying the opposite tack here given that the scumread didn't make super much sense to me

who on your team thinks i'm town?

i'm p sure it was a serious vote but it doesn't really make sense with his teacher read, i think

I thought it was serious too, but what does his read of me play into it. Like ya I was voting you, but I think his read of me was -?null- so why/how should the fact that someone who is rand! affect his scumread at all?

was trying to parse where his read on me was coming from, thought it was a little funny that we were meshing on at least some reads (i.e. you) but that he thought i was scum

even saying that he feels more like ~washed-out~ than the last few times i've played with town!him

The snip above is about tw. He actually feels quite similar to me from the normal I played with you back in oct/nov, right before I took my break. What’s different for you?

feels ~less energy~ than there

=

I am having trouble figuring out if they are numbers or not. The only time I played iirc with Skitter we were scum so I don’t have a good basis.

@ math ? when did we play together ?

i actually kinda like math's readslist

[skitter30]

bella how are you reading me rn?

[skitter30]

oh ~that~ game
it was a fun one

i wasn't scum tho, you were with chip (? i think ?)
you n1'd me for nailing you iirc

[skitter30]

ok give me a bit, i'm a few pages behind

i'm also kinda planning on avoiding rc a bit if i can

[skitter30]

i may have been in a hood with you (?) i'm not sure, i don't remember the details @math

[skitter30]

This is another post of Bella’s that ignores the main track of conversation and starts another wagon about a recent scumspect. I don’t see her like of thought either.

i thought the timing of her vote on me was kinda off, it felt sort of band-wagon-y because it came just after teacher/tw were suspecting me and her reasons for voting me basically boiled down to 'don't like her posting'

=

what are you finding scummy abt this tho

i didn't say i found it scummy
i said i didn't like it, and it's the sort of thing that is making it hard for me to get a solid read there

historically this is very far from my expectation. town!rc thrives off forcing friction and reading the fallout; scum!rc tends to be towny enough to coast until he's called out and THEN forces conflict
wouldn't say he does bare minimum as scum but he feels more like he needs reads here imo

this isn't really how i'd say i understand his game tbh

=

@math, how have i gone from derp-town (possibly) to scum based on an opening that didn't engage much with the game when like, I made it clear i was skim reading and had paid the most attention to the last few pages, and then went back and literally said 'wow, my read on rce was dumb'.

You've basically invented a narrative.

ok
let's get into this
what narrative do you think that math invented here, because i'm not sure i'm really seeing what you're seeing ?
as best i can tell you're talking about his read on you in 586 but i'm not following where the rce vote comes int

=

the math/rc bickering thing is kinda exhausting me

[skitter30]

tw
hi

let's talk about why you think i'm scum

[skitter30]

1. Post count by your previous logic
2. Pushing back on RCE’s gratuitous TL of me.
3. Raising matters of interest in my own time and not being driven off how I approach the game for the sake of appeasing the others who’ve voiced the same view as you. They don’t know better, you do, and it gives me the vibes of blendy laziness with a side of leaving me open.

I think that while this is more evidence that teacher is lock!town, the reasoning is imho bad.

Post logic should never be contributing to alignment unless some meta reasons.

I don’t see why the TL of you is gratuitous? You are one of my strongest townreads if not the strongest.

I don’t understand the last one?

to be fair there were/are meta reasons

[skitter30]

i'm purposefully ignoring the posts you lot made about me, i think

[skitter30]

I also think Teacher is weirdly town
like I'm not quite sure what I'd point to for why but I don't think he's scum

i'm actually kinda befuddled by the teacher tr's
i don't really see it tbh

[skitter30]

Or to put it this way

I don't think Bella is scum unless Ari is as well I think

i'm acutally really confused why everyone is so fixated on ari

like when he shows up we'll try to sort him
i think his entrance was lowkey townie, i don't get the urgency in this rn at all

[skitter30]

like out of everyone in the game what's the point of wagoning the guy that's not here and isn't going to be here for like a week ...
i just feel like there's better avenues to pursue rn

if we need to build wagons for the sake of building wagons let's pressure xtoxm or the replacement dude who at least might give an interesting response

[skitter30]

I'm voting marhblade for pushing a narrative that just isn't happening. I find it weird they are trying to set up a big story about my what, five posts?

can you like summarize this narrative?
because i'm not entirely sure it, like, exists

[skitter30]

Aloha Muchachos. Hectic and Hopkirk have told me to sheep RC until they have a chance to look at the thread (might be a while). I'm not sure if they're joking or not but they've been quite relentless. It's 23.31 here so I'm gonna head off but I would like to reassure you that I will not replace out too, probably.

VOTE: mathblade

meh

[skitter30]

I ask because while your initial post about the party hat was innocuous, your responses to Math calling it out were a little less so. I could see it from a newbie or someone like Nancy Drew

(sorry my compadre but it's apt and I know you understand) who is more likely to take things more emotionally or personally on a quick read. You seemed a lot more ruffled by Math than you needed to be.

this was like ... really random ...
but idk like how this thought process even like enters his head if he's scum here

[skitter30]

They aren’t here either

X one shot and poof

well maybe wagoning him will unpoof him

either way i think in a vaccuum if we're just searching for someone to wagon this would be better than the guy who's not going to be here for like half hte phase

[skitter30]

If anything this means that if Ari is scum Tris is town due to the risk of a wagon actually succeeding and not being able to move his vote would be bad.

also like no this isn't how p2 wagon-based associatives work

[skitter30]

I ask because while your initial post about the party hat was innocuous, your responses to Math calling it out were a little less so. I could see it from a newbie or someone like Nancy Drew

(sorry my compadre but it's apt and I know you understand) who is more likely to take things more emotionally or personally on a quick read. You seemed a lot more ruffled by Math than you needed to be.

this was like ... really random ...
but idk like how this thought process even like enters his head if he's scum here

I do. Buddying me.

i mean:

a) that's a remarkably egocentric way to read that interaction
b) why'd he push tris here and not me or plum given that iirc you were going after both of us there too

[skitter30]

@Skitter Tell me what you make of me + RC and RC not voting Ari when you get caught up and not before please.

you + rc are exhausting to read rn ngl
i don't have super many thoughts but i think that you trying to work with rc/his reads is probably +town for you
i don't think i can give a good read on rc rn

i agree with him that voting ari is not going to accomplish super much rn

i think i want to go here
VOTE: bella

[skitter30]

tbh i've been kinda skimming your posts sorry
i guess i can see that tho

[skitter30]

I am considering Ari is a tmi scumread from RC and Bella is a TMI townread. It’s a minor thing but if voting Ari is so useless he wouldn’t be scared/not do it but he is. And he doesn’t vote. He just posts.

i feel like rc is the last person on the planet to be scared to bus ari
i don't really get this read, he's been amping up to vote there for a while now

[skitter30]

Hiconeum

tttttttttttwwwwwwwwww

i feel kinda ignored

[skitter30]

decided to 180 on TW because honestly I don't think this is how he engages with the Skitter situation as scum, does scum him really try to keep open a Skitter mislynch, and w/e

honestly probably not but i kinda hate that all he's been doing this game is taking swipes at me and refusing to talk about it

also i disagree with your bella read

[skitter30]

Plums a bit of a posting non-entity to me. Like they are posting, and jiving, but nothing's sticking to the me or the gamestate.

i disagree on plum here

how would you describe plum entity-ness then?

i kinda liked a few of her takes that she made in-real-time
and at the time i wrote this post, like several days ago, i disliked with this take on her posting

but since then i've been kinda feeling that she's ~faded into the background~ a bit, and i don't remember much of what she's said since like ~friday, so i don't disagree with this take as much as i did at the time

[skitter30]

I am considering Ari is a tmi scumread from RC and Bella is a TMI townread. It’s a minor thing but if voting Ari is so useless he wouldn’t be scared/not do it but he is. And he doesn’t vote. He just posts.

i feel like rc is the last person on the planet to be scared to bus ari
i don't really get this read, he's been amping up to vote there for a while now

Are you caught up? He like refused to vote any of his scumreads for like a page.

i'm not sure, i feel like you had this discussion with him yesterday ?
i don't really feel like scum!rc gets caught doing something like this tbh wrt his partners, he's too aware of associatives

[skitter30]

I am considering Ari is a tmi scumread from RC and Bella is a TMI townread. It’s a minor thing but if voting Ari is so useless he wouldn’t be scared/not do it but he is. And he doesn’t vote. He just posts.

i feel like rc is the last person on the planet to be scared to bus ari
i don't really get this read, he's been amping up to vote there for a while now

Lol RC could bus me anytime if we were scummates and probably would if it made us look good. Scared to bus me? The most bussable player??? As if

yes, that's kinda my point
this feels like you're lampshading it tho and it feels kinda gross actually

[skitter30]

skitter wanna talk about this?

i kinda think i laid out what i didn't like about it, but sure:

- felt band-wagon-y since that was the wagon du jour at the time you showed up
- disliked that your post started with calling *my* plum vote bad, but by the end of the post you decided to vote her without really circling back to what you were thinking about my vote and/or if your opinion of mine had changed given that you too were scumreading her
- your list of reasons to sr plum kinda felt like you decided you were going to vote her and then retroactively found reasons to do so

[skitter30]

I gotta go but I will take that under advisement but I feel something weird and can’t put my finger on it.

ok, we can talk about it more when you get back

[skitter30]

just vig him 4head
reeks of scum saving an easy lynch for later
how often do you get vigs in a mini normal

good god what is this

[skitter30]

flopz entrance/catch-up is p bad imo; it actually reads kinda partner-y with ari that he scumreads ari for 'the usual reasons' but neither added anything to the discussion nor did anything about it (i.e. by voting him when he unvoted ari)

[skitter30]

be back in a few

[skitter30]

Also no clue what lampshading is so...

you're like highlighting the you/rc connection and it makes you seem v self-aware so it feels kinda gross

[skitter30]

honestly probably not but i kinda hate that all he's been doing this game is taking swipes at me and refusing to talk about it

also i disagree with your bella read

at the risk of picking a fight with him over this I absolutely hate what the worst has done this game. i just question whether it's actually scum indicative.

ya that's kinda what i feel like too, i'm starting to feel like he's avoiding me and i don't like it

[skitter30]

could be like rce/ico but i don't know how likely i am to get mathblade to vote RCE.

where are you even like getting this from?

[skitter30]

i feel like i've tried to get him to articulate his sr on me like ~3 times now and he's not acknowledging the posts

like i'm not sure it's scummy exactly but ... it's annoying and not helping me read him

[skitter30]

why are we not wagoning bella again?

[skitter30]

ok i would like to hear that then because i'm liking my vote there rn

[skitter30]

- i don't get any of her votes
- including her vote on me which is basically 'i dont' like skitter's posting vote:skitter' at a time that i was a hip cool read
- i don't understand why she dropped it
- i don't understand why she's accusing math of making up a narrative around her, i can't even figure out what the narrative is
- in general i just don't track what she's doing or thinking at all

[skitter30]

i don't really have any experience with her, as far as i know

i don't think that the naked votes/unvotes are townie tbh, it kinda makes me feel like there isn't a clear/consistent thought process that they're using to read the game; that's one of the key ways i try to read people and when i can't track what they're doing and why it makes me kinda dubious, and i just don't really see a consistent underlying narrative/approach under her posts/pushes/votes

[skitter30]

sorry i just don't really see it :/

that's kinda my preferred vote rn but you can maybe sell me on ico?
i don't see the rce/ico thing either and i don't think you brought it up before tonight

pedit @rc

[skitter30]

i can see scum!ico

i think rce is townie

i don't think i see the associative that you're talking about

[skitter30]

hm. this is interesting
i'm not sure i get it tho.

do you mean that rce was like trying to continue an old convo as if it was like ~important~ in real time later?
otherwise not sure i get where you're going with this ?

[skitter30]

oh i actually associate notes with townieness tbh

[skitter30]

idk don't really have an opinion on the notes thing

not sure rce starts teh game by setting up a trajectory to try to lynch/sr me if he's scum

also is this more of a 'i sr rce and think ico might be a valid partner' type thing or do you sr them both?

because i'm kinda approaching this from the opposite angle - like i think that rce is townier than not and ico's the one that i'm not sure about

[skitter30]

i'm ok with a flopz vote, i think

[skitter30]

well i'm not really motivated to convince you of something you're already willing to believe, if that makes sense?

fair enough

[skitter30]

ari are you going to share any of your thoughts or ... ?

[skitter30]

and my notes say lynch one of plum, math, Skitter, Ari.

also the hyper indirectness of 'my notes say to do x' as opposed to something like we should do x is a big scumtell

so what was this then ? ^

[skitter30]

i think i do that as town tho?

[skitter30]

esp. in wallpost mode

[skitter30]

i'm reasonably confident people called me out on that at least twice in wallpost!me mode, but i couldn't point out where off the cuff rn

pedit
huh

i will have to keep track of this then

[skitter30]

rce can you hit me up with a readslist real quick?

[skitter30]

the voices in my head are telling me that bella is town, but i don't really see it :/

[skitter30]

tw!

hi!

why am i scum?

[skitter30]

rc do you wanna wagon flopz or ico with me?

jjh tells me i am very wrong on bella and that she's easy to read and that i'm biased cuz she voted for me

[skitter30]

@rce why is tris town?

also would you be interested in a flopz and / or ico wagon?

[skitter30]

actually idk

not more than like ~3 i think now tho

[skitter30]

let me check

[skitter30]

actually i'm wrong, tw, math, rce, plum, are all now voting him

[skitter30]

Has Amrun said anything about this game?

none, i prodded her earlier today to see if she'd been following, haven't heard back

[skitter30]

bleh i really hate tw's popins too

[skitter30]

who actually said just vig him btw

no idea, let me check
it may have been tw actually

[skitter30]

Xtoxm votes would be cool.

Vig or replace would be better.

Ari at least has some content.

[skitter30]

yeah i feel like he's purposefully avoiding engaging me/the game at this point

[skitter30]

tw!

hi!

why am i scum?

i'm going to head to sleep soonish tho

[skitter30]

i'm p sure i'm out of my scumrange wrt ~heatedness~

[skitter30]

ya fair enough

[skitter30]

just like ... don't pull that again

[skitter30]

i don't super love that you kept on taking swipes at me and then kinda ignored me for a few days when i tried to get you to talk about it

[skitter30]

i'm kinda thinking tm might be a last hurrah and that i'm going to take a break after

[skitter30]

idk i kinda felt like i kept reaching out and that you just kinda like ... didn't respond, which i don't entirely know how to parse and i don't know why you'd do that as scum but i don't know why you'd do that as town either

ignoring his thing with me ... i said this already but i think he'd be trying harder to force 1v1s to make the thread difficult for town to navigate if he were scum here

part of why there is a bit of paranoia tickling the back of my mind is that, well, from my pov he did kinda try to do just that via steamrolling me to a pl

[skitter30]

actually this is me, don't steal my ideas. although it hasn't been quite the hurrah i wanted.

been thinking this for a few months, but yeah

[skitter30]

can you get ank to give a read on me @tw?

[skitter30]

was on the fence about even doing this tbh

[skitter30]

i hope everything is ok with you tw :/

[skitter30]

idk can you just like update me where you're at in general ...

i kinda feel like you're popping in and talking about ~tangential topical~ things and i don't have a good sense for what you're thinking rn

[skitter30]

yeah you sound a bit ~exhausted/drained~ so yeah i just hope things are going well in general, happy to hear that emotionally things are good

[skitter30]

i need to sleep i think

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

should i vote flopz or do we want to do ico?

[skitter30]

Today is gonna be a weird day, may not be able to catch up till late tonight depending on how work is

[skitter30]

I'm ok with giving tw a pass till day 2

If he's posting like this then / not really ~motivated~ still then i'm going to have to push him and be sad

[skitter30]

hi skitter

i'm here

wanna talk about stuff

before you say that i am dodging you again

I dont think i said you were dodging me?

I have to get ready for work in approximately 2 minutes so i'm about to bounce

Did you respond to what i said about your plum read? If ya can you point me to it?

[skitter30]

duck you are being unpleasant this game in a way that i have never seen from you before and i think you should just take a break here.

I dont think he's being unpleasant?

Just like super unmotivated/not interested rn which i think isnt ai rn and i thought he was getting a pass till day2

[skitter30]

Tbf i do think you should have been townreading me earlier than you did

[skitter30]

Also are you like conflating rc's reporting of nsg's read and rc's own read and accusing him of losing nuance when all he did was share nsg's read or am i misunderstanding ...

[skitter30]

Share as in report, to clarify
Not share as in agree

[skitter30]

Tbf i do think you should have been townreading me earlier than you did

other then your scumread on me, our scumreads are about the same, and I already mentioned what you quoted here just now. So if I'm scum, what's my play here?

I was talking to tw there, not you

What's your read on me?

[skitter30]

Ok really gotta go now, later

[skitter30]

@rc you asked about amrun; her baby has been ill for the past few days and this has been fairly low priority for her

she's reading through slowly and atm she's at:
ari strongtown, plum scummy, tris scummy, math scummy but she is the least confident in that one

[skitter30]

if you want me to into 'stuff' details, I could. If you wanted to.

yes, that would be nice
i'm not feeling super great about my plum read rn so i'd like to see what you think

also i feel low-key buddied by you rn

[skitter30]

Tbf i do think you should have been townreading me earlier than you did

other then your scumread on me, our scumreads are about the same, and I already mentioned what you quoted here just now. So if I'm scum, what's my play here?

trying to talk me out of wanting to vote you, apparently

[skitter30]

Tbf i do think you should have been townreading me earlier than you did

objectively this wouldn't surprise me; I think going back ~a year I locktown you over your conversation with RC happening at all (if not earlier) but like I've mistakenly townread you a couple of times recently so I'm kinda being careful there as a matter of pride

tfw when you have a good scumgame

kinda impressed with myself that i had you going there for a while in the pyp a few months back

[skitter30]

I think I’d rather Xtomx to Flopz of those two. I also don’t like how the Bella wagon kinda stalled and dissipated without sig analysis. I’d love to bear a Bella towncase or reasons to get off that current vanity.

I also tend to think the game has been mostly town in thread. I don’t get RC’s repeated suspicions of RCE in the quick ketchup, I’m pretty good on both being town, but found the notes interchange interesting if Townie for both.

Skitter remains the slot I’m most unsure of. I liked the genuine emotion in the RC 1v1, but I feel like she’s good enough to know that might be needed. The thing I’m having the hardest time pasrsing is the specific timing of her vote relative to the claim - like RC isn’t being lynched day 1 after that claim, so it seems like it could be LAMIST theater?

agree with bella, i don't see it at all
the voices in my head tell me she's easy to read and that i shouldn't vote her rn tho
don't super love that she didn't even react to the pressure tho

wrt my vote on rc - i was kinda ~really annoyed~ with him at that point and didn't want to talk to him anymore
i was voting more to demonstrate that i was kinda pissed off than because i actually sr him, i think. i knew he wasn't getting lynched there

[skitter30]

don't super love the flopz ate in