BooneyToonz XIII: To Boon or Not To Boon - [END]

[50 Judge Powers]

So desperate is usually a disloyal modifier

For the last time: Desperate =/= Disloyal. Desperate only works on a specified group (group Scum) and fails on anyone else. Disloyal works on anyone not Town.

[Venus and Mars]

We are not lynching thr claimed doc who claimed NAs. @A50, why couldn’t an enchantress have targeted you? It would definitely explain Creature’s actions failing.

[Venus and Mars]

My theory, which we won't know is accurate until postgame I suppose, is that scum thought they were killing a lover and thus would get a two-fer. That could override killing a doc N1. I don't want to be inconsiderate but it's also important to consider proficiency -- a doc who doesn't yet know who to target is unlikely to be effective in any case.

As for the blocking action, a simple analysis of your EOD position should show that it's likely they thought you would target one of them and that town would figure out what the results meant. It's fairly obvious that if there is an enchantress it isn't (competent) town or we wouldn't have spent all this time discussing it. I'm coming along to the point of view that we do know that your target could be predicted, and that your action could perhaps be manipulated by scum and exploited to "confirm someone as town". Someone who I won't mention rn is "right" in their scumreads but for a fairly poor reason -- or at least they haven't articulated the better reasons.

One other thing I'll bring up since it concerns 50's reads, if scum were informed the game had a Juvenile Delinquent, they would have incentive to want to find out who it was. Was anyone especially suspicious of the miller claim and did that generate lengthy discussion? This piece of evidence might help explain the NK or identify who was exploring that angle, if there was anyone.

So you think scum is informed about the roles?

[50 Judge Powers]

I'm stopping at the top of page 150, Internet to slow and I'm really tired. Will catch up tomorrow.

Also,

@Boon: Man your games are awesome, but you can't have Joan, Creature and Nips all in the same game and expect is to enjoy the game, can you??

P-edit: @VnM: You yourself have been arguing against the existence of an Enchantress to begin with. Now make up your mind, was I targeted by an Enchantress (in which case I'll vote Nips) or was I NOT targeted by an Enchantress (in which case I'm not moving off Joan)??

[chkflip]

There's no reason to believe you were.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm stopping at the top of page 150, Internet to slow and I'm really tired. Will catch up tomorrow.

Also,

@Boon: Man your games are awesome, but you can't have Joan, Creature and Nips all in the same game and expect is to enjoy the game, can you??

P-edit: @VnM: You yourself have been arguing against the existence of an Enchantress to begin with. Now make up your mind, was I targeted by an Enchantress (in which case I'll vote Nips) or was I NOT targeted by an Enchantress (in which case I'm not moving off Joan)??

I was against it until I realized Creature targeted you because if he had targeted Drew, Nips would be clear. Nips is the only one who knows Expresso, so it’s a weird kill and he’s really not doing anything if you reread his ISO.

Also, there were 3 wagons as has already been pointed out by RCE. One on flipped town - R & J, an other on mech cleared town - Haggle (Dave checked that they had no gun) and Nips.

So, not knowing the Creature target was making Titus’ theory implausible but now that I know he targeted you, which makes way more sense than Creature because YOU actually claimed D2 and Creature did not, and since he’s the only one to claim rb, it has to be one of you and Occams Razor says you, which means that no actions either on you or executed by you were possible.

So yeah, the enchantress theory makes total sense now.

[chkflip]

There's no proof 50s ability didn't go through though.

Every time you guys mention it I'm gonna keep mentioning it too.

[Venus and Mars]

I'm stopping at the top of page 150, Internet to slow and I'm really tired. Will catch up tomorrow.

Also,

@Boon: Man your games are awesome, but you can't have Joan, Creature and Nips all in the same game and expect is to enjoy the game, can you??

P-edit: @VnM: You yourself have been arguing against the existence of an Enchantress to begin with. Now make up your mind, was I targeted by an Enchantress (in which case I'll vote Nips) or was I NOT targeted by an Enchantress (in which case I'm not moving off Joan)??

I was against it until I realized Creature targeted you because if he had targeted Drew, Nips would be clear. Nips is the only one who knows Expresso, so it’s a weird kill and he’s really not doing anything if you reread his ISO.

Also, there were 3 wagons as has already been pointed out by RCE. One on flipped town - R & J, an other on mech cleared town - Haggle (Dave checked that they had no gun) and Nips.

So, not knowing the Creature target was making Titus’ theory implausible but now that I know he targeted you, which makes way more sense than Creature because YOU actually claimed D1 and Creature did not, and since he’s the only one to claim rb, it has to be one of you and Occams Razor says you, which means that no actions either on you or executed by you were possible.

So, one of you or Creature had to have been targeted because he track on you failed but he didn’t claim anything on D1 but you did, so between the two of you, who was the most likely target? So yes, this definitely does point to the existence of an enchantress, which nullifies any NA executed on you or by you, so the clear on Nips is meaningless.

So yeah, the enchantress theory makes total sense now.

[chkflip]

Still nope.

[Venus and Mars]

There's no proof 50s ability didn't go through though.

Every time you guys mention it I'm gonna keep mentioning it too.

Creature was blocked. He didn’t claim until D2, so why does scum target him? Because of Crearure roleblock, either Creature or A50 had to be the target and only A50 claimed on D1, so this isn’t exactly rocket science. The clear is extremely likely invalid and the only role fitting that is either alien or enchantress and both effectively nullify any actions taken by or on A50.

[Venus and Mars]

Still nope.

Why did Creature’s actions fail if I’m wrong?

[Venus and Mars]

I copped A50 N1 and got no result

[chkflip]

There's at least one other role I see on the list of Boon's roles that could be the culprit of such a thing. At least two other people have already named it.

Furthermore, we KNOW there's both a Renegade and a variation of a Sticky Fruit Vendor in play already as evidenced by Titus' claim of being nerfed and your claim of having recieved, ahem,

dirty laundry

. So if I'm to believe those claims (I do rn) that would mean that for there to be an Enchantress there would then be THREE Boon Bank roles in this game.

Something tells me that, alongside the claim of a SECOND nerf role on town's side (Frost's claim of being a doc enabler), that town would be SEVERELY underpowered if there was ALSO a role that could completely moot a role on top of permanently nerfing another.

[Nancy Drew 39]

There's at least one other role I see on the list of Boon's roles that could be the culprit of such a thing. At least two other people have already named it.

Furthermore, we KNOW there's both a Renegade and a variation of a Sticky Fruit Vendor in play already as evidenced by Titus' claim of being nerfed and your claim of having recieved, ahem,

dirty laundry

. So if I'm to believe those claims (I do rn) that would mean that for there to be an Enchantress there would then be THREE Boon Bank roles in this game.

Something tells me that, alongside the claim of a SECOND nerf role on town's side (Frost's claim of being a doc enabler), that town would be SEVERELY underpowered if there was ALSO a role that could completely moot a role on top of permanently nerfing another.

No, no sticky fruit just regular fruit vendor. Otherwise I would have been asked to pass it along, right?

@Titus are you a 1 shot?

[chkflip]

You're still asking me to believe that there are two Boon Bank roles on the same team that effectively do the same thing. I can't believe that to be terribly balanced amongst a visitor, a hider, a knifesmith, two enablers, three different kinds of cop variants, and a vigilante.

Especially considering this is role madness and, therefore, that would mean they're paired with at least one or two other roles as well.

[chkflip]

knifesmith amongst the cop variants, my bad. Wrote that without looking back at it.

[Venus and Mars]

As for protecting her, I mostly protected her because she is the only one I know in this playerlist.

*Sad Shiro noises*

~Venus

[Nancy Drew 39]

You're still asking me to believe that there are two Boon Bank roles on the same team that effectively do the same thing. I can't believe that to be terribly balanced amongst a visitor, a hider, a knifesmith, two enablers, three different kinds of cop variants, and a vigilante.

Especially considering this is role madness and, therefore, that would mean they're paired with at least one or two other roles as well.

2 enablers?

[chkflip]

"ArE yOu EvEn ReAdInG?"

One for cops, one for doctors.

[RCEnigma]

RCE, are the EoD vote counts an accurate representation of your ability?

Is this another cheeky walk into it joke?

[Venus and Mars]

"ArE yOu EvEn ReAdInG?"

One for cops, one for doctors.

What cop enabler?

ArE yOu?

[chkflip]

RCE, no joke. You didn't notice anything weird about the vote count?

Mars, I'm talking about Ejet and Frost.

[RCEnigma]

@mod

are all vote counts accurate from start to this point?

No it doesn't come from any ability I have. I didn't get what you were getting at so I checked back.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Mod: Do desperate slots lose their ability to act with the juvenile delinquent dead if their original role wasn't cop like?

Nancy, I'm going to try to explain those crumbs in 20 minutes.

Desperate is a modifier, the abilities get disabled.

So, no actual proof that Renegade exists.

[Nancy Drew 39]

RCE, no joke. You didn't notice anything weird about the vote count?

Mars, I'm talking about Ejet and Frost.

It also says “cop like” not just cop so any modifier can fit that if it can function as an investigative. Scum just happened to pick the most optimal NK.