TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Ankamius]

I've been working from both scum! and town!anka POV when reading your posts. You are not aggressive nor inquisitive, which is usually a scum trait in my experience, but i have seen town players do that so it's nothing decisive.

I'm only aggressive when I'm confident in my own conclusions and find inherent value in pushing them, I'm not going to be aggressive when I'm not expecting any results from what I'm pushing

I had a lot of issues with deathtunneling years back so I'm more careful about what I push and why

Ok, trying from a different angle: how are you scumhunting in this game? What are you looking for in people's posts to form reads, besides activity and effort?

Because my problem with you now is that i don't see you doing any of that. It is early, but you're feeling way too cautious and you seem to be expecting the game to solve itself, but contrary to a lurker you are also paying enough attention and posting stuff that i see as empty. This is the point of me asking you "why am i wrong?", because surely you don't think your posts are empty... i guess?

Also what's the point of having a readlist that almost coincides with post count? Did you notice it at all?

oh

yeah you just don't understand my playstyle

[Ankamius]

I don't look at what people are doing

I look at WHY they're doing what they're doing

I compare what people are trying to do with what I think scum are trying to do and see if they match

and rinse and repeat with any contradictions until I have a solve I'm comfortable iterating on until I have enough information to reliably solve the game for real

I don't just look at posts and find shit wrong with them unless I'm beyond lost and confused

[Ankamius]

You think Elements is scum Ank? I'm still doubting on that slot.

Convince me.

I'm barely scumreading him

it's basically the awkwardness around how he handled the pressure around him

[Ankamius]

Ank, why is your read of me influenced by what is in/not in my scumrange?

I ask because there’s nothing especially notable about my posts so far. I haven’t posted anything that I “wouldn’t be able” to post as scum.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that there is good reason for other people to think I’m town here, but your focus on my “scumrange” feels lazy.

it's a focus because I can't be confident on you being town or scum

you're experienced enough to know how to keep thought processes/trajectories in order, I don't know you well enough to tell the difference, and you have a playstyle I struggle to accurately parse

[Ankamius]

volpe are you ok

[Ankamius]

I'm actually reasonably confident that the major conflicts are either TvT or irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

it's more productive to look on the outliers for that and see who's working the sides of it than anything

this reminds me that chenn mentioned stuff about this that would indicate town although I'd need to double check to lock that

if the pieces are falling into place properly, GIF/Deas/Gamma/'lurkers'/EP/elements should probably have the scumteam

I'm struggling to see most of the other players fitting into this right now

[Ankamius]

tl;dr it's a work in progress

[Ankamius]

Ank, why is your read of me influenced by what is in/not in my scumrange?

I ask because there’s nothing especially notable about my posts so far. I haven’t posted anything that I “wouldn’t be able” to post as scum.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that there is good reason for other people to think I’m town here, but your focus on my “scumrange” feels lazy.

it's a focus because I can't be confident on you being town or scum

you're experienced enough to know how to keep thought processes/trajectories in order, I don't know you well enough to tell the difference, and you have a playstyle I struggle to accurately parse

Wouldn’t that indicate you may need to take a different approach to reading me? Rather than thought processes/trajectories?

I'd have to find it first!

[Ankamius]

volpe vs fl
gif/volpe vs nom

those are the two I'm referring to

I either never even noticed or had forgotten that you had 1v1s with chenn and nom, although really I'm pushing half the plist vs nom in the same thing

a lot of it is irrelevant or TvT

I don't believe that scum has been under the spotlight except for the possible exception of Elements; scum are more likely to be on the outskirts or just not here entirely

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE:

I'm going to bed, not feeling this sorry

[Ankamius]

and I personally believe that the site has a higher level of play, at least the higher level players, are stronger now than they were 5 years ago.

How

I feel like townplay is on the downturn since 2018

[Ankamius]

Town inherently can’t win a 1v1 against a scum because scum have teammates to back them up and help warp the gamestate to make the townie lose. This is a big reason, I feel that scum should always work together like a team, and that’s the main thing keeping scum players from moving forward. People always try to play the solo game, but I think the better play is to always try and work with players, even if you’re town thinking someone is scum. You can always be wrong, and it doesn’t hurt to talk about possibilities.

I guarantee you this is a big reason

I've noticed towns working together less in all my games in 2019

[Ankamius]

I think the Farkran kill was made for the last standing player utility, which means one of the two living players is Scum.

What makes you say that?

Why else would they kill Farkran over at least half of the players list? It's not like he a reputation for catching, and his team isn't the most experienced either.

Gif, nomnom, volpe

[Ankamius]

Wtf why did that quote

[Ankamius]

Also we have to consider that Leading Actors are still standing up despite Elements having been killed so the chance that the 2 people remaining in that hood are town or both scum are higher.

Or they don't want to risk confscumming one of them

[Ankamius]

I can't see volpe as scum at all, sorry

[Ankamius]

huh

my first thought was not having farkran's read hang over me would help me get more into the game

but I'm even more uninvested than before

strange

[Ankamius]

Which I think necessitates that I reconsider how I'm viewing the game.

do you want to talk for a bit?

[Ankamius]

are scum necessarily proactive though?

I'm pretty certain that Volpe is town, just kinda hitting the overly paranoid town that tends to drown out the game
nomnomnom is pretty firmly in her townrange I think

there's not a crazy amount of people that are being very proactive about the game otherwise unless you're partially referring to people that are more midrange

chenn maybe?

Ankamius

Volpe14/Farkran/nomnomnom

DeasVail/

Flavor Leaf

/davesaz/

Almost50

Gammagooey/MariaR/chennisden/GuyInFreezer
Vex Vience/Volxen/kuribo/Dr Easy Bake
Elements/EspressoPatronum

I'm not budging on these reads right away

I can maybe be convinced on davesaz or deasvail, but I haven't seen any real reason to think I'm wrong on davesaz based on what's been posted so far; deasvail more because I don't actually understand his playstyle like I do the others (and in farkran's case, I think he fits enough of the general mold I have for logic styled players that I'm ok being confident in it for now)

everyone on the line below that I'm open to being wrong on

next one is null line

elements and EP are weak scumreads

are scum necessarily proactive though?

I'm pretty certain that Volpe is town, just kinda hitting the overly paranoid town that tends to drown out the game
nomnomnom is pretty firmly in her townrange I think

there's not a crazy amount of people that are being very proactive about the game otherwise unless you're partially referring to people that are more midrange

Apparently, Volpe is good scum, I’ve never seen it, though. I can fake paranoia better than I can show real paranoia. I didn’t like the early parts of Flavor vs Volpe and there’s a part of me that thinks his death tunnel was completely fake, but I’ve backed off from that because most people seem to think he’s town, so I’m just kinda slightly lean towning volpe from it for now.

Volpe snowed me completely on baton pass, but I don't see the same Volpe there as I do here

namely the tone is very different this game

I'm actually reasonably confident that the major conflicts are either TvT or irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

it's more productive to look on the outliers for that and see who's working the sides of it than anything

this reminds me that chenn mentioned stuff about this that would indicate town although I'd need to double check to lock that

if the pieces are falling into place properly, GIF/Deas/Gamma/'lurkers'/EP/elements should probably have the scumteam

I'm struggling to see most of the other players fitting into this right now

Anyway here's my read until the aforementioned re-evaluation. I will only list whether I think they're town or not, "not" being null - scum range. Strength of townread not included on purpose.

Ankamius - T

Dr Easy Bake -

Flavor Leaf -

davesaz - T

chennisden -

Vex Vience - T
Volxen -

MariaR -

Gammagooey - T
DeasVail -
kuribo - Just wanna call this T for absolutely no reason at all tbh.
GuyInFreezer - T
Elements -

Volpe14 - T

EspressoPatronum -

Almost50 - T

Farkran - T

nomnomnom -

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this

GIF is a high value flip I think, although I necessarily believe it is much higher value as a nightkill than a lynch if it's early enough

but this is something that should be gone back to if GIF ever flips scum

Why do you town read A50?

I'm not as confident I can read him as before, but I don't think I'm entirely wrong that he can be read based on a combination of what he talks about and how he talks about it

and I'm seeing generally good takes with the impression that he believes what he's saying

that's good enough for me on D1

what do you think of this general take of the game?

or even really what's confusing about it since it's very rare that I explain thoughts like these correctly on the first try

[Ankamius]

I'm not sure how to take Farkran being dead yet

I have theories, but it takes more to really be sure about any of them

[Ankamius]

alright, neat, we're somewhat on the same page at least

does anyone in particular stand out as being on the sidelines to you? I didn't really have an opportunity to go digging with all the everything going on yesterday and I took the night phase to relax from mafia a bit, so I'm fuzzy on details

[Ankamius]

ok volxen

did you really find that one post the only thing to respond to after reading through the entire thread?

[Ankamius]

I don't really think that lynching in that list is particularly useful in the first place but whatever gets you guys off I guess

[Ankamius]

I don't want my hood's abilities to be outed

sorry

[Ankamius]

I think enough has been said about the neighborhoods in general

[Ankamius]

because this is the first step in micromanaging the mechanics of the game

and I know this playerlist well enough to fully believe that if this first step is taken, then it's going to be forced through all the way to the end.

and I'd really rather not play to try to maximize potential of the roles when there's a very real possibility that it will just blow up in our faces instead and leave us with no use of basically any of them

we'd be sacrificing too much for ~M~A~Y~B~E~ getting some use out of our PRs, and honestly beyond that I don't think town is in a position where we are able to properly use whatever we have even if we can manage to get use of them properly

[Ankamius]

essentially

I have a nasty feeling that the scumteam would get a lot better use out of all this shit than town would, and I fully believe town would just barge through with forcing the issue anyways

[Ankamius]

I take a mirror and

VOTE: Volxen

[Ankamius]

volxen looks townier as scum

[Ankamius]

volxen looks townier as scum

Boy howdy that's some ass backward reasoning to call someone scum

that was a direct response to deas???

[Ankamius]

why exactly is it optimal to lynch within the commuter hood again?

[Ankamius]

and it's not weird at all that people came in suggesting to lynch within that neighborhood immediately and to create lists of what order people would be willing to lynch each slot?

[Ankamius]

a thought just occurred to me

Deas, how much are you basing your interpretation of my game off starry night?

[Ankamius]

and it's not weird at all that people came in suggesting to lynch within that neighborhood immediately and to create lists of what order people would be willing to lynch each slot?

No, I think the only weird part is that this was suggested today, as opposed to yesterday. This plan could have perfectly been proposed yesterday but this was only suggested at start of day, so this could signify that scums want to push this now and coordinate this, for one reason or another.

did you take this into account when you made your initial post?

[Ankamius]

volxen looks townier as scum

Boy howdy that's some ass backward reasoning to call someone scum

that was a direct response to deas???

I don't care who it's in response to it's a weird reasoning.


You vote the guy, DV asks why, you say the guy you're voting looks townier as scum. You obviously think he's scum or else why are you voting him? But if your reason is he looks too townie, then I have to question if you're just pulling stuff out of the aether because there are better reasons to vote someone than they look townier as scum on day 2.

I dont feel like this is some insane leap of logic on my part, this is me questioning why you voted someone for looking "townier as scum."

no, deas essentially asked me why I was voting somebody who popped in, said something he said was well reasoned, and vanished again

my response is that he's townier as scum, aka his logic looks better

[Ankamius]

and it's not weird at all that people came in suggesting to lynch within that neighborhood immediately and to create lists of what order people would be willing to lynch each slot?

No, I think the only weird part is that this was suggested today, as opposed to yesterday. This plan could have perfectly been proposed yesterday but this was only suggested at start of day, so this could signify that scums want to push this now and coordinate this, for one reason or another.

did you take this into account when you made your initial post?

Not really.

What do you think of all of this? You seem to think this is strange and all. Explain.

because isn't it weird that it wasn't really pushed yesterday despite all the pressure on each slot, and yet the start of day was people suggesting lynching within the neighborhood without pushing any specific slot?

that's two entirely different approaches that achieves very different things

...but it's weird that this gets backlash?

[Ankamius]

you got me kuribo

I'm voting volxen because I think he's town

[Ankamius]

because idk how the hell I'm supposed to even respond to that

that's not my reason for voting volxen, that's me telling deasvail why I don't agree with the townread

how am I supposed to respond when I literally tell you that and you keep going on about it?

[Ankamius]

maria have any of your partners caught up with the game at all

[Ankamius]

I'm just looking for more takes really

[Ankamius]

idc as long as it makes any sense

this game in general hasn't made sense to me in a long time

[Ankamius]

btw

I explained what was going on in my team's discord and duckling told me that this game looks like a town loss

I'm inclined to believe him honestly

[Ankamius]

Well I'm right here ya know :( You more than anyone should know my opinion on where I think this is gonna go

to hell?

[Ankamius]

I wish I knew how to fix that, but I think that depends on people completely switching their approach to the game and I really don't think I can cause that here like I can in other games

I have a bad feeling that we're going to have to lynch town to fix the game and it might be too late at that point

[Ankamius]

I'm surprised you haven't talked about me more, but that's beside the point. Who do you want to talk about? I can't just tell my team to spit out a read since I've asked them to not read it.

well the things that are really throwing me off are:

1. how many people are scumreading nomnomnom when I'm townreading her
2. how many people are scumreading volpe when I'm townreading him
3. how many people are hard disagreeing on my FL townread
3. how many people are saying I'm not town or not acting like myself

something's just fundamentally off about this game and I can't pinpoint exactly where it is

I feel like a lot of the game is TvT fighting
I feel like people are tunneling too hard on things that don't functionally matter
I feel like there's no actual THREATS in this town

like

scum have the advantage in this game but I don't think town is in a position to really recognize and reverse that, and I can't dig into it myself since part of it is trying to figure out why the hell I'm not showing as town despite being sure at multiple points by now that I've been pretty blatantly town in my posting

[Ankamius]

Well Ank, I'm pretty sure your town and I think most of the game is townreading me (I never thought I'd make that statement in my life) so, if I agree with you (and I do already to some extent) I can help out. Because I don't really want to keep going down the path we're going on. We're focusing so much on mechs. What we should be doing is shutting up and playing mafia at the moment. Mech talk isn't useful this hood talk is anti town. At first I wanted to call people scum for it but so many people are focused on it I guess I'm just not getting the hint across.

1: I'll comment on this later

2: Volpe is null for me, mostly because I've had pings on both sides

3: Lol trying to read FL. As I said, wait to see if FL is trying to take an advantage in the game state and look at flips. I feel like he's one of the players you need flips to solve with.
4: What are the TvT fights?
5: Y E S
6: Lol threats hahaha
pedit: Don't give me this amount of power Kuri I'll go mad

I guess this is as good a starting point as any

my townread is essentially I can't reconcile these two different occurrences and still come up with volpe being scum:

Spoiler:

Ank that is a pretty wall saying that basically I shouldn't scum read you but I've no reason to actually town read you and we're in a 50 page game already. I'll highlight the fact you're saying you're inconsistent in your games and your wording gives me the impression you acknowledge the fact that you aren't doing much but you also mean to say that you still have not got a good foothold in this game.

But if that's the case why you think it's odd or anything for me to you out on it?

Like, your reaction to it first was to be nonchalantly, and the second one to write a lot of question marks as if what I was saying was mismatching reality. But in your post you basically are saying "that's not a reason to scum read me".

But as much I'm highlighting what I think it's not cool in that wall I don't find that wall AI. Instead of writing it, acting nonchalantly in thread or saying you're just disinterested in the actual content, you could...help me produce content?

I felt you were very comfortable with the game being without direction though and you didn't even attempt to push or interact with Espresso.

Chennis I'll say please go away with the mentality that Ank wallposting "frustation" automatically makes her town.

From a quick glance at that wall she was frustated that RC was warping gamestate and it wasn't getting readable to her apparently. Here she isn't actually frustated on not getting into the gamestate, She is saying "people don't get how to read me" for being called out.

In that game it was like, page 32 and she already was pretty confident in a scum team apparently. Here she didn't even bother with Espresso or trying to get a handle on nulls. It's not the same to me.

Ank so far you lack like

your sass

your drive

your insight

You lack everything I actually like about Ank and think it shows her thought process

Here you've "tried" to interact with people almost as if it's a bad copycat version of how you go about it usually, what would make sense because it was in a very comfortable gamestate for you that you wouldn't feel like intentionally changing as scum?

I want to work with you if you're town and I don't want to tunnel but like

time's up let's rock this place man, what do you think of elems jumping on you too right now?

I'm starting to feel like Ank easy reads on nomnom/FL might even have been TMI to be honest like

Chennis explain in depth why you think Ank is likely town here

Nomnom is getting hard suspected now and was before but like, Ank doesn't seem to really mind it?

I think we should really focus on people who aren't brazenly scummy but more feel like they're playing from the sidelines

Dave and Elements are the poster kids of this

Ank is playing from the side lines as fuck and the fact you aren't seeing it irks me

I also doubt scum Ank fakes being in a bad headspace for this game

Do you think that scum!Ank would have all the usual sass/drive that town!Ank has and begin to limit her lynch pool/lynch possibilities in the game if she was content with gamestate?

Like, if we consider now town!nomnom getting wagoned, scum!Ank couldn't jump on her because nomnom would get sus, so throwing a TR and being lukewarm on it would be a good play to let town eat itself and...

exactly what happened??????

Honestly I'm dropping my confidence on you being town because you seem trying to justify why ank is town here rather than approaching this from a "is ank town or scum?"

Ok Ank let's start talking about your read on me in that case.

I know scum!me had a lot of sass about being obvtown but I'm serious this time

Why I'm not one of your strongest town reads here?

The amount of direction, flopping, emotion etc I did put in this game just sticks out like a shining beam compared to my scum games where I was far more one-directional.

Not only you didn't put me in a very high TR, you didn't approach me either.

For argument/devil's advocate sake, I want to talk about a world where both Ank/Nomnom is town.

Ank, where would you be looking at?

Guts are fine.

Ank I was starting to like you but you not giving me anything here makes me just want to go back to hard scum you.

Like, can't you give me anything...?

Anything with more substance*...

Ok I was lying, I actually thought that scum!ank would be more eager to try to make minor stuff at least when I hard asked for something but...

Hmm, should I town read that...

hmmm...

UNVOTE:

I feel like if she's scum that was...slightly cheap

not really cheap but very slightly cheap hmm.

VOTE: Elements

Time to do some justice wagoning maybe

Nomnom what's your opinion on Ank last reaction?

[Volpe] - Town
[A50, GiF, Ank??] - Likely town
[Vex, Chennis, Dave, Espresso, DeasVail, Dr EB] - nulltown
[Gamma, Volxen, Fark] - null
[Kuribo, Flavor, MariaR] - nullscum
[nomnom, Elems] - likely scum

Fark is on null now. I'm starting to get into this game again.

Spoiler:

I particularly want to play as town supporter from now on, and as town I would have either gone with you or Ank if she was putting a bit more of effort (I see why she didn't though)

Man I wanted to coast this game with Ank/RC so hard but rolling scum just made me go "bleg!" and it let me down in a spiritual level

I was scum reading Oh for associatives before replacing though

Mostly GG that had a super wordy read on them when he gave one-liners for everyone else TRs

and again gj

you got me good with that bus

I think if you had more time/more info to reconsiderate you would have eventually got fwiw but I wouldn't let you live that long if it was that kind of game :lol:

if I was at the point where I could judge shit like that, I would've been universally townread and impossible to lynch

I meant more that I would NK you if I sensed you were getting close to solving the game/understanding game state

my guess is that volpe considers me enough of a threat as scum to think it's inherently risky to try to push me from a state where I'm not particularly getting into the game into one where I'm into it and pushing my own agenda, and the game that the second set of posts come from doesn't have any real engagement with me in the first place despite the amount of time we were in the game at the same time

here volpe pretty blatantly reaches out despite scumreading me and pushes me to do more of what he's expecting me to do instead of letting me apparently underperform before I even realize that there's even a difference

I can't see how that's a scum mindset unless there's already a lot of confidence that nothing's going to change even if he pushes me, and idk if that's even possible at the point of the game that the engagement happened in

[Ankamius]

That relies on you thinking that his scummates wouldn’t be setting up gamestate elsewhere, though? Cover all pockets. I didn’t read every quote, but what I got from it is you town read him because you don’t think scum him would push you when you weren’t playing the game?

and who are these scum 'setting up the gamestate elsewhere' exactly?

[Ankamius]

ok

do you think I'm right or wrong that scum are mostly on the sidelines

[Ankamius]

volxen looks townier as scum

Voting to pressure me is one thing, but where is this coming from? We've played four games together: Nomination Mafia, Chain of Command 1 (where I hydra'd with Nancy), Chain of Command 2 (where I hydra'd with Nancy and Auro), and Micro 889 -- Good James Mafia (where I hydra'd with Chennisden). I'm not counting Vengeful Ghosts since I didn't really post in that game. In NM I was town and you were scum, and by the end of the game I was widely townread. In COC1 we were both town, and you and Krazy had me/Nancy as a top townread very early on in the game. Granted Nancy's posting had a lot to do with your townread on our slot in that game, but you and Krazy also picked up on individual towntells from both Nancy and I in that game. In COC2 and GJM I was scum and you were town; in COC2 you were mostly null on my posting, but you immediately started to scumread me in GJM once I started posting. I wasn't really townread in either of those scum games, whereas my slot was widely townread in NM and COC1.

So saying that I look townier as scum doesn't make sense even if we are just going by the four games that you and I have played together.

Thank you for proving my point

All of this is true, and it again shows that I wasn't explaining my scumread, I was explaining to Deas why his assumption wasn't correct

[Ankamius]

One thing I will note is that I helped mod starcraft 3, which you were scum in and got townread until lategame
I spectated BoP2, where you were townread for your posting as scum
I somewhat kept an eye on that newbie outside the newbie forum thing, where you were considered scummy and ended up lynched as town

I'm aware of your general reputation of looking bad as town on day one and improving in readability over time and cam believe that to be the case by what I've seen. I think I've been able to read you fine because I take that into account when I try to read you, so I can prepare for it.

[Ankamius]

I think I can get a better pic than this

I need to experiment a bit...

[Ankamius]

Thanks for that kuribo

I'm blaming you for my nightmares tonight

[Ankamius]

Funny enough

I'm realizing that I might be close to a solve without really analyzing for one

[Ankamius]

I maintain that its unlikely town has any actual threats as of yet

[Ankamius]

Funny enough

I'm realizing that I might be close to a solve without really analyzing for one

I was feeling the same way, however, like I said yesterday, scum are in the town reads.

'The' or 'my'?

[Ankamius]

I maintain that its unlikely town has any actual threats as of yet

I’m always pre-coital.

Scum have paranoia threats, i bet you that.

Yet Farkran died?

[Ankamius]

It makes a lot of sense for me to kill farkran, yes

It makes sense for nearly everybody to kill farkran, yes

If you got that I was saying farkran died for no reason, then you're just putting words in my mouth. I think farkran died because he was a universal townread and generating the most information. Who in their right mind doesn't kill farkran?

[Ankamius]

I posted 1969 because farkran was expecting me to look at people's posts and just get reads, when that's generally how I go about it when I don't have any reads at all.

My process is very different after I have any sort of grasp on the game.

[Ankamius]

Alright genius, who exactly do you kill in his place than

[Ankamius]

You'd nightkill into the single biggest source of tension in the entire game?

[Ankamius]

Certainly not the play I would've made!!!

[Ankamius]

Anyway

I still don't see any basis for assuming town has any threats

And yes I'm attacking your argument because despite whatever reasons you attribute to it, this isn't exactly the first time I'm saying this

[Ankamius]

Certainly not the play I would've made!!!

Sort of the point that was being made here from the beginning.

Ok

[Ankamius]

I think FL is focusing on the wrong things here but I don't think it's scummy

Flip EP scum and ask me again though

It isn't

[Ankamius]

Remind me again why EP is scum

[Ankamius]

I've been talking to a cute duck about him and forgot everything

[Ankamius]

Shrug

I want volxen tomorrow

Probably gif after that

VOTE: EP

[Ankamius]

What are the odds I become a wagon at some point today?

[Ankamius]

Are you going to wagon me daddy

[Ankamius]

I'm disappointed

[Ankamius]

Oh baby this will be good

Who am I killing tonight?

[Ankamius]

Ok daddy

[Ankamius]

FL is very distracting

[Ankamius]

Ngl deas

The fact that I've basically obvtowned myself and there's still multiple people that seem to think I'm just faking my town game has pretty much destroyed my ability to care about how I look

There's no point when I know nothing will convince the people that aren't already convinced

[Ankamius]

I plead the fifth

[Ankamius]

I was starting to wonder where you were

[Ankamius]

I'm skimming but can't do more atm

I'll be back a bit later

[Ankamius]

I don't think FL/nom3 is a team unless they're doing some kind of discredit campaign to throw me off or something

It wouldn't be out of the question, actually, it does make sense with FL suddenly turning on me d2 and I can see that team having that general strategy based on our past games

[Ankamius]

Idk why FL would call me a SK over scum though

[Ankamius]

I can see why, especially with an SK pm available

[Ankamius]

Sadly that entire freakout by itself really isn't anything, he's pulled all that same shit as town enough times that I just shrug at it.

I have a theory for how to read him, but it's untested as if yet

I think I'd be able to determine his alignment accurately eventually if this theory is correct

[Ankamius]

Ftr I think you aren't necessarily wrong

I think volxen is a lot more likely third scum than kuribo is if it's the case anyways

[Ankamius]

I was already planning on it for months

[Ankamius]

Uhhhh I main astrologian but I have my eye on machinist

They fixed it for 5.x so it's actually a pretty cool class now

[Ankamius]

Machinist in stormblood was basically spam your ogcds on cooldown and manipulate your heat gauge so that you would overheat at the same time that your burst tool would come off cooldown

Then you would spam 50 abilities in 10 seconds

Rinse and repeat, with the caveat that any minor mistake would drastically cut your dps and the class would be outright unusable if your ping wasn't great

Now it has a similar feel of having burst windows and a lot of stuff to do, but it's way more intuitive to figure out and isn't anywhere near as conditional

[Ankamius]

so this is a thing huh

[Ankamius]

didn't I make a post somewhere asking about the odds of being wagoned

I think we've hit the point where it counts as a 'yes'

this amuses me greatly

[Ankamius]

because like 90% of the thread is useless

[Ankamius]

I mean putting aside the dumb spats I think there's a lot of content here.

Can I get your reads on Volpe, Chennis, Gamma, EP and DV?

locktown/town/slight town/slight scum/slight scum

[Ankamius]

@Ank what happened with your scumread of me from D1 to your read of me today?

my reads changed

[Ankamius]

I'd hope that was obvious since I kinda made a big deal out of it

there's very little I haven't outright put in the thread, people just aren't reading my posts

but that's not exactly different from the norm, so

you know

[Ankamius]

Ank u reek of low effort scum with nothing to do

if I was low effort scum, I wouldn't be posting at all

[Ankamius]

Fark was the best NK for FL/nomnom and a below average NK to a team outiside of nomnom/FL that should be more worried about Ank the paragon reaching the conclusion that it's a lot of TvTs.

Comment on this, Ankamius, please.

Because we talked earlier about something similar.

except I have

I literally said earlier that the only way you two are scum together is if part of your gameplan is specifically to discredit or throw me off

that specific scenario is possible enough because that was my general stance throughout day 1 anyways and Farkran himself had attacked me for that stance

I put enough stock in NKA that it's a realistic enough tertiary reason to be part of a game plan if part of the scumteam's agenda is to keep me in a state of "why aren't you doing enough" that was shoved down my throat endlessly d1; it's proven to be effective so why NOT go with it?

[Ankamius]

Ank u reek of low effort scum with nothing to do

if I was low effort scum, I wouldn't be posting at all

and does this make you high effort scum

or at least medium effort scum

no

because I'd also be faking being more into the game than I am if I was scum being higher effort

[Ankamius]

I think people don't really understand that it's actually much easier for me to get into a game as scum, because I don't need to do the step of "figuring out what scum are probably doing"

generally if I'm just trolling around like this as scum, it's because the game is going absolutely nowhere and I need more from specific slots to push what I'm trying to push further

this is essentially the difference between my scumgame and my disinterested towngame and I think nobody has really ever figured that out properly within the last couple years

[Ankamius]

ngl I'm actually curious whether this wagon on me can somehow threaten an actual lynch

I'd probably die laughing

[Ankamius]

I think I'm coming back around to FL town

[Ankamius]

Is it just me or is all the scum within like 6 players

[Ankamius]

Why does FL have to be town at my expense this isn't fair. I wanna be called town too.

I always thought you were town

[Ankamius]

Ankamius - cancel food

Dr Easy Bake - The Maurauders

Flavor Leaf - Wild Cards

davesaz - Busboy Revolution

chennisden - Quick Attack

Vex Vience - Doomsday

Volxen - Derp Wolves

MariaR - Ripple's Krazy Mistress Dunn

Gammagooey - Old Hat

DeasVail - The Lit Torches

kuribo - The Four Horsement

GuyInFreezer - Bird That Carries You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

Volpe14 - Tea Gathering Club

EspressoPatronum - Newb Kids on the Block

Almost50 - You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

nomnomnom - SubOptimal Math

[Ankamius]

granting my vexvience/gammagooey/davesaz reads are weaker than the others but that's roughly where I am atm

[Ankamius]

What did you get from my games EP?

[Ankamius]

@Gamma:

Is hito following along or is planning to in the future?

@chennisden:

How much of the game has cheeky read and does she plan on reading the whole thing?

@Dr Easy Bake:

What is Titus' and Mathblade's read on A50?

@Flavor Leaf:

How are you doing and what are Jingle and SS' thoughts on the game?

[Ankamius]

Thanks bb love you

[Ankamius]

Ftr my team is starting to get their bearings in this game so I might be prepared to make a move before day end

Watch out for that

[Ankamius]

Nom isn't ok lynching me anymore

Is this the apocalypse?

[Ankamius]

Gambles???

[Ankamius]

yes I was trying to get townread gamma

[Ankamius]

Trying to get townread?

That doesn't seem like you honestly

it's also not like me to be a contested read after going through my process

[Ankamius]

ok volxen

did you really find that one post the only thing to respond to after reading through the entire thread?

only time I explained it directly

[Ankamius]

I'm waiting for my team to catch up and offer their thoughts before making any major pushes

There's some agreement that there should be time put into this game but it hasn't happened yet, sorry

[Ankamius]

volxen

my #1 issue with you is that you claimed to have caught up overnight

and yet the only things you can think of to comment on are my scumread on you and some random post???

[Ankamius]

From what to what

[Ankamius]

Interesting

[Ankamius]

so Deas, what you're saying is

1. you're scumreading me
2. you're also scumreading two of my scumreads
3. one of your other scumreads is scumreading both of your other scumreads

[Ankamius]

I think it might be worth looking at your townreads and seeing who you're wrong on

because just... what lol

[Ankamius]

and yes I'm explicitly scumreading nomnomnom now

if me leaving her out of my townreads on 2/3 the playerlist wasn't indication enough of that

[Ankamius]

you had some really bad posts today

[Ankamius]

And u reek of fish

ank, this is more important

can you answer it?

I eat a lot of fish

[Ankamius]

Nonetheless, Ankamius, if you vote nomnom, then I will as well. What do you reckon?

I'm waiting until I can sync with eddie

I want any push I make to count since I don't have the credibility to change my mind later on willy nilly

[Ankamius]

so Deas, what you're saying is

1. you're scumreading me
2. you're also scumreading two of my scumreads
3. one of your other scumreads is scumreading both of your other scumreads

I think it might be worth looking at your townreads and seeing who you're wrong on

because just... what lol

I don't think this actually makes sense when you think about it.

Mafia is very much a game of continuously updating reads as you go, at least for me it is. I don't expect to be right about everything at the beginning. Over the course of Day 1 and Day 2 some of my reads have undergone massive overhaul.

Also one mafia member merely having a scumread on another mafia member at a single point in time does not greatly increase the chances of scum being lynched, especially given the above.

the problem with this is:

1. nomnomnom has been consistently scumreading me since single digit pages
2. I was hard defending nomnomnom when it was very unpopular, and now that it's starting to die off compared to yesterday, I'm switching to scumreading her
3. there's plenty of low post/effort slots, yet I specifically chose volxen to pressure on d2 when there was none on him
4. I'm clearly not getting towncred for defending nomnomnom, and I clearly didn't get credit for defending volxen

what about this screams scumteam? I'm not the best scum at hiding in the thread but I'm pretty up there with planning things behind the scenes

[Ankamius]

pedit: the credibility to what? I've never heard you say such a thing in all the games we've played together

this is one of those things that I am always taking into account but generally don't say in the thread

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

Here we go again.

You're ultra tunneled.

If for 2 days straight you have the same read even after a V/LA there is a serious problem, so either you are playing terribly as town or this is just a scummy way to pass by.

Your posts literally contain nothing pertinent to the gamestate either it's just self centered and you went past through everything else, it's crazy.

You're ultra tunneled.

That's all you've to say to me?

You were literally super suspecting me but suddenly I'm not a plausible scum pushing you but you go direct for "You're tunneled!"

Your "scum slip" on GiF too, already gave up on that?

This is ridiculous.

I like to consider every possibility. You are either tunneled, or you're pretending to be as a way to go through unnoticed, so if it's case 1, maybe it's time to read the game proper.

Both of us aren't the lynches today either so that's why I am asking you to stop being tunneled hardcore.

pedit: I change my mind often because this is mafia where people NORMALLY change their views over time. I read your games and that's my own conclusion, feel free to disagree.

By the way I'm not doing this shit again, read the gamestate or I'm not bothering interacting with you and you gain scumpoints bye

pedit: rofl a sheep vote. Okay you clearly didn't read the game. I'm starting to think maybe I was right on the money the first time I voted you.

Both of us aren't the lynches today either so that's why I am asking you to stop being tunneled hardcore.

Why aren't you lynches today?

What kind of conceited view is that?

Also weren't you pretty hot on lynching on hood today?

180º without reason again?

Dude you clearly didn't read today, do me a favor, stop spewing garbage all over the thread and read what's happening because CLEARLY none of us is getting lynched and the top wagons are elsewhere.

pedit: Yes voting the same person as someone else is always a sheep vote. You're a dumbass.

Well tbf when I said "none of us is the lynch today" that takes into account you don't do something terribly scummy like only posting shit about you in the catchup and not addressing the gamestate.

I don't think it's impossible EP, DV or Chenn are scum, but I feel better about you guys lynches so...???

my gut is screaming for a Volpe vote right now ngl.

This is straight up ignoring the gamestate and this is an ultra scummy post in general.

VOTE: Volpe
Nah I just can't let that go through. I refuse.

I refuse to believe that a townie would go this fencesitty on the gamestate and say "yeah they could all be scum but my reads are better". Nah, even someone like RC who's likely to pull that shit off would tell you why you suck at this game and why those people are not scum, or at least why they're not lynch worthy.

You're making awfully scummy posts and I wanted to go for Chennis/Gamma but you coming in and doing this is just so bad. Like here's where I'm at with your slot: either you're town and you give so little of a shit that you don't even bother with this game anymore, or you're scum making the lowest minimum effort then pulling this AtE shit of "I don't wanna play this game" to make the pill go through. Which version do you want me to go for here?

pedit: No what I said is that if you were town I'd expect a lot more commentary than "these top wagons? nah no thoughts about them die scum".

????

I'm at loss of words.

Can't wait for someone in this playerlist to proclaim this is a TvT again btw.

this entire exchange on your side is basically blubber and trying to discredit volpe without saying anything of substance whatsoever

and considering you came in 3 hours later and both responded to volpe in the same tone AND showed that you were still in your right mind makes it very hard for me to believe that you're just overcome by emotion

[Ankamius]

volpe's sitting here making actual points and putting content out there

and all you can say is that volpe is tunneled and posting nonsense

without going into why

and now you're sitting here telling me that it's substance

[Ankamius]

VOTE: nomnomnom

[Ankamius]

VOTE: nomnomnom

Stop! Just stop right there. Vote Volxen with us. Be productive. If not, then at least don't be the throne in my side.

I have been fighting tooth and nail to sway skitter away from you for a while now, but with your actions and their justifications I am afraid I am losing that debate real bad right now.

Listen, we are NOT lynching in that hood today. Period. Ig you are Scum and want nomnom dead soon you'd have to shoot her at night. (And the same applies to nom if she wants Ank dead soon enough).

And since I'm at it: nom is starting to come out a winner in this face-off between her and Ank. At least nom is playing ball and trying to work with other players in the game, not to derail any collective group effort by going against the grain just to appear like she has a different opinion. (Sorry if that sounds harsh, but really.. be a team player or go sit on the sidelines).

Thank you

wtf is this post?

[Ankamius]

And since I'm at it: nom is starting to come out a winner in this face-off between her and Ank. At least nom is playing ball and trying to work with other players in the game, not to derail any collective group effort by going against the grain just to appear like she has a different opinion. (Sorry if that sounds harsh, but really.. be a team player or go sit on the sidelines).

legit a50

what is this even saying? my team is just as confused as I am about this

[Ankamius]

my reads have been mostly aligned with the majority for a while now
nomnomnom scumread isn't going against the grain unless you mean against my past reads
nomnomnom is at least playing ball when I had just quoted her doing the exact opposite???
why would I feel the need to have a different opinion when I've been under pressure for most of the game?

none of this makes any sense and it makes me wonder about you a50

I'm used to you being crazy but not this type of crazy

[Ankamius]

also skitter and I have a history of being hyper paranoid of each other in game after game, it's almost every time we're TvT if not literally every time we've ever been TvT that one of us has gotten so paranoid of the other that we just fall apart and derail the game

she's a strong player I have respect for, but she's not the best source of accurate reads on me (and vice versa, I wouldn't advise people to trust my scumreads of her)

it's a sad truth but a truth nonetheless

[Ankamius]

why am I always expected to lead

[Ankamius]

ok, legit

I'm in a state where I think I have an ok idea of what the game state looks like, I have a PoE I'm willing to work from and no real reason to deviate from it because nobody is doing anything to shake up the game or really do anything other than what's on the agenda itself; which is pretty funny considering that's what I'm being suspected for this time

I'm finding it likely that the scumteam are trying to make the game either stall out completely or create a general state where scumhunting is more prohibitive than it normally would be even with how stagnant the game was on day one:

1. Farkran, the single biggest slot pushing the game forward, the slot being the aggressor in the most ways, and the slot that was most widely townread, was killed night one.
2. There's no strong pushes towards anything but the same slots that there have been pushes in yesterday; namely EP/nomnomnom/myself, with Volxen obviously being a newer one but hardly more exciting than the stale wagons of yesterday
3. half the playerlist hasn't even posted in close to a day or longer

obviously the modkill had something to do with the game stalling out, but it really goes to show how LITERALLY ONE SLOT can cause the game to screech to a halt by not being there while the same shit keeps being pushed as yesterday

that's a sign that there's unresolved tension in the game that needs to be resolved in some way before the game can truly move on, and to put it bluntly, I don't see any good way to go about that except to go along with what's happening right now since I'm literally townreading the majority of the people that are actively here.

Ankamius - cancel food

Dr Easy Bake - The Maurauders

Flavor Leaf - Wild Cards

davesaz - Busboy Revolution

chennisden - Quick Attack

Vex Vience - Doomsday

Volxen - Derp Wolves

MariaR - Ripple's Krazy Mistress Dunn

Gammagooey - Old Hat

DeasVail - The Lit Torches

kuribo - The Four Horsement

GuyInFreezer - Bird That Carries You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

Volpe14 - Tea Gathering Club

EspressoPatronum - Newb Kids on the Block

Almost50 - You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

nomnomnom - SubOptimal Math

this is still where I'm at:

I'm town because obviously
Flavor Leaf is town because I've seen the shit he pulls from other games, and the general sense I get from his posting is that there isn't a uniform agenda behind it; his chaos is more chaotic and less controlled chaos
davesaz is town because I've liked his takes and I've gotten the sense from past games that he focuses on random bullshit that doesn't mean anything when he's scum; I don't get that sense at all this game (albeit I'm less familiar with him than other players here and so it's a weaker townread)
chennisden is town because I'm not really seeing an agenda in his posting; this is one read I'm taking a liberty on since I can see him stepping back as scum after creating this monstrosity, but I'm not willing to humor that at this point since flipping him would be a very risky snipe if he's town for essentially no benefit if he's scum outside of the scumflip (which anyone who knows me knows I don't inherently value)
Vex Vience I can believe is trying and is just getting hung up based on outside factors; it's another liberty but he's nowhere near as egregious as other slots (although I kinda would like a transcription of his notes)
MariaR is town because she's had generally good takes and is trying to push the game forward, plus she reminds me of starry night; I'll reconsider this later if I absolutely have to but I kinda get the feeling that she's going to get paranoia'd some other day down the line and I really just don't want to accelerate that because it really isn't at all productive
Gamma is town because I've liked his takes; weaker townread but I think he's a net positive for the thread regardless and the thread needs that more than an accurate read on him since it will make him more readable regardless later
kuribo is town because I don't see scum!him having this overall approach to the game
Volpe is town because I strongly doubt scum!volpe ever interacts with me like he has throughout the game
Almost50 is town because his thought process is consistent and he's not doing really convoluted shit to try to look busy

so who's left is:
nomnomnom, EspressoPatronum -> stale scumreads from day one
Volxen -> new scumread and one that I was pushing before anybody else in the thread but apparently me not being on him is weird now and is liable to give skitter an aneurysm if a50 is to be believed
Dr Easy Bake -> who the fuck knows with him, I don't even remember how I caught him in vengeful ghosts
GIF -> my very old experiences (like 2014 old) was that I'd just know he was town when he was town; I don't KNOW that he's town now and I feel like that should still be valid if he's tryharding; plus I still think the way he handled the neighborhood thing was really off somehow and it pings my intuition every time I think about it
DeasVail -> not getting townvibes from his posting and I didn't like that I reached out to him and got only lukewarm responses... and then got scumread for dropping it, plus I don't get the same impression from him that I did in starry night

so what exactly do I need to do that's not "following the leader" or "sounding like myself," because what I'm seeing is a gamestate that is both stalled to fuck and back as well as not seeing any good way to save it since I strongly doubt that steering the course away from where it's going will work with how inactive a lot of slots are (and that the PoE includes slots that have done essentially nothing), and I really doubt that it's even fixable without having a fresh set of flips to reset people away from the modkill and give more of an ability to solve for different slots

I get that people think I'm some amazing town player and it's generally more enticing to try to sort me than a lot of other players, but I really struggle to work in games where I don't see an effective out for what the issues in the game are; the only real difference is that I'm blowing up the thread with sarcasm and annoyance rather than outright anger and scorn

I'm okay with leaving the thread where it is because I frankly don't see a town willing to put the effort in to save it, and there's very little I'm going to be willing to do when the game is full of players that are either townreading all the same players and/or focusing almost entirely on the same 3-4 slots or just outright not playing the game; I'm not here to carry town, because I don't believe that it's a good way to play the game in general, I'm here essentially to keep the game onto a track where town is going to win in the long run

prove that you guys really want to win and I'll be more interested in taking an active stance in the game; until then, I'm going to be sitting back and watching until shit happens or my team gets around to catching up with this game

and ftr, 2 of them find this game boring and the third has yet to say anything about it, so don't count on the latter

[Ankamius]

...but nom engaged me on my read of her and the vote was a direct response to that engagement???

[Ankamius]

thanks kuribo

[Ankamius]

I appreciate you

[Ankamius]

Why are we talking about my discussion with Ank like it's a lesbian porn scene about to blow up wtf a50

lmao

thanks, I needed that laugh

[Ankamius]

Where we at fools. Need me to push someone?

Eddie says you should vote nom

[Ankamius]

Tbh the only real reservation I have with lynching nom is a volpe nightkill

[Ankamius]

My team and I are fairly aligned on Ank and Gamma scumreads. None of us townread volxen.

For the sake of maintaining town focus, I'll consolidate on volxen. I think Gamma's push on me was disingenuous, but we can save that for tomorrow.

I'm very curious what the source of your team's scumreads came from, especially since your team includes a member that has personally seen how I handle the back end of scum

[Ankamius]

My team and I are fairly aligned on Ank and Gamma scumreads. None of us townread volxen.

For the sake of maintaining town focus, I'll consolidate on volxen. I think Gamma's push on me was disingenuous, but we can save that for tomorrow.

I'm very curious what the source of your team's scumreads came from, especially since your team includes a member that has personally seen how I handle the back end of scum

In case this isn't clear already, Blake Belladonna is me.

[Ankamius]

Idk whats going on atm but volpes questions are bad according to one of my teammates

[Ankamius]

Oh

I forgot to mention, they're town bad

[Ankamius]

Lot of volpe, nom, me, and kuribo

A few others were kinda active too

[Ankamius]

Worth noting that my scumre

Why to this too

[Ankamius]

Wtf

I meant the scumread on me lessening if volxen is scum

[Ankamius]

if volpe does get vigged and flips town

I'm not going to be happy

[Ankamius]

lmao

is d3 worth reading so far or should I just start making pushes to shove this game back on track

[Ankamius]

If you sons of bitches think making me voteless is gonna shut me up after I got 3P blood on my hands, y'all don't know kuribo




I told you that shit wasn't town, kiss the fuckin ring

I'm with you.

VOTE: Ank

I told Ank and chenn that if they silence you that I'm outing my hood. We are the hood that got it's abilities exposed at the start of D2. The last standing ability is obviously the Vigilante, so THAT (and tbh ONLY THAT) is what made me think this had to be an all-Town hood, because I didn't see the Mods giving Scum an extra kill when they manage to kill/lynch 2 Townies.

ALSO, Ank was furious and and accused me to have redirected the lynch off -my scum p- nom. I told her skitter's read was still valid as Creature (Volxen) flipped NOT Town, and she said she didn't care.

chenn on the other hand has been looking for any reason at all to call me scum. I think he is Town still (stupid, but Town), but it got me furious I told them I won't be posting in the hood anymore unless it was to say who I was voting to become voteless (btw, I submitted Ank's name as I told her I would). They both opted to silence kuribo, and I lowkey think Ank wanted to get him mad to obfuscate the game status more. She explicitly said she was silencing him so he doesn't go after her. What intrigues me is why chenn seemed to agree.

As I said, I told them both that if kuribo was silenced then I'd be outing the hood, and -again- the stupid Townie of the two said it was OK because I was scum anyway.

I would lynch Ank today, and if either I/chenn got killed at any point the other should be lynched the very next day.

LOL

SILENCING KURIBO WAS MY IDEA AND YOU SERIOUSLY THINK IT WAS FOR ANY OTHER REASON THAN IT BEING FUNNY TO ME???

[Ankamius]

lmao

is d3 worth reading so far or should I just start making pushes to shove this game back on track

baby, my posts are always worth reading.

how u doing ank?

this game has been the biggest trial in maintaining my own sanity that I've ever had on this site

except for skull's undertale

[Ankamius]

ank, rc wants to know how cute he is on a scale of 1-10.

i say -1

unknown

[Ankamius]

a lot better than that other undertale

even if the role skull gave me was a lot more interesting in theory

[Ankamius]

ALSO, Ank was furious and and accused me to have redirected the lynch off -my scum p- nom. I told her skitter's read was still valid as Creature (Volxen) flipped NOT Town, and she said she didn't care.

chenn on the other hand has been looking for any reason at all to call me scum. I think he is Town still (stupid, but Town), but it got me furious I told them I won't be posting in the hood anymore unless it was to say who I was voting to become voteless (btw, I submitted Ank's name as I told her I would). They both opted to silence kuribo, and I lowkey think Ank wanted to get him mad to obfuscate the game status more. She explicitly said she was silencing him so he doesn't go after her. What intrigues me is why chenn seemed to agree.

you didn't read my posts if you got to this conclusion

just going to say this point blank because I pointed out to you

twice

that I found it really fucking weird that the nomnomnom wagon struggled to get off the ground for so long and yet the volxen wagon got shoved through so easily it's fucking insane

the difference between scum and not scum is a lot more pressing with that than town and not town

[Ankamius]

one of these days I'm going to strangle bitmap

[Ankamius]

alright

I'm going to be consulting my team for a while because I want to solve the game today

now that I'm fully outed as being in the writer neighborhood, I don't trust that I'm going to be alive much longer

[Ankamius]

Volpe being the NK is actually a hugely informative kill and the fact that Volxen flipped 3p instead of scum should be a huge red flag to people

[Ankamius]

just going to say this point blank because I pointed out to you twice that I found it really fucking weird that the nomnomnom wagon struggled to get off the ground for so long and yet the volxen wagon got shoved through so easily it's fucking insane

the difference between scum and not scum is a lot more pressing with that than town and not town

[Ankamius]

why do you think volpe died FL

[Ankamius]

why do you think volpe died FL

So Chennis can push me and Nomnom.

X

[Ankamius]

chenn-scum going that route is really stupid after what he's been saying in the neighborhood N2

and I wouldn't call chenn-scum stupid

[Ankamius]

he agreed to push on kuribo for the silence with me and then had the same response to A50 threatening to out the neighborhood

he even called A50 scum for it

making a NK on a slot that isn't a particularly popular townread to push two players as scum after pushing one of his neighbors as scum just a day or two before doesn't make any sense

[Ankamius]

You asked me why I thought he was killed. I gave you my reason. Don’t X that.

You can X it post game IF and only if Chennis is town.

I Xed it because it's untrue

[Ankamius]

and if you're town then continuing along that track will not help you get to the right answer

[Ankamius]

You asked me why I thought he was killed. I gave you my reason. Don’t X that.

You can X it post game IF and only if Chennis is town.

I Xed it because it's untrue

I disagree that it’s untrue. I know I’m town, I see Volpe dead flipping town, I see Chennis pushing Nomnom and myself, I think it’s entirely fair of me to believe that’s what’s happening.

Explain without neighborhood stuff, why that’s something not happening

because that is such a random reason to kill somebody who isn't even that widely townread when there is a much simpler more easy answer???

[Ankamius]

Speaking of which I did say that a SK would be interested in killing volpe if they thought volpe was scum and here we have FL reminding everyone that he thought Volpe was scum.

HhmmhmNMHMMHHMH!!!

Okay, why the fuck are you turning on me now? I’ve had your back near the majority of the game because I saw you as the townier of the 3 of your neighborhood, and it seems like every time there’s any kind of momentum towards me, you’re the first person to turn to these kinds of shade posts.

this is a bad post

[Ankamius]

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

still hashing but I'm like 80% sure this is my lynch target today

[Ankamius]

Fire: Dann says hi

[Ankamius]

I gave it a pass at the time partially because he's an older style player before that kind of logic was really a thing and partially because he wasn't alone in having that opinion

but it does look worse now that I look at it again after seeing how hard kuribo pushed volxen out of nowhere for similarly iffy reasons yes

[Ankamius]

ftr my team has convinced me that Gif-slot is town and that my change of heart on Deas being more of a townread was unfounded

both eddie and dann agree that EP is probably scum

[Ankamius]

why nom

[Ankamius]

dann wants me to look at who had bad reasons for staying off volxen

[Ankamius]

he thinks both Deas and EP treated volxen like they knew he wasn't town

[Ankamius]

wasn't scum sorry

[Ankamius]

okay...I really just wanted dannybois number. and wanted to know how he has been and what he is wearing, and whats new with him.

can u get those answers for me?

his number is 867-5309

he's been great now that he's had a chance to talk to you again

he's wearing his usual stuff except no pants

[Ankamius]

I'm just kidding he didn't say any of that

[Ankamius]

what does your team think atm a50

[Ankamius]

I'm most interested in Amrun's I think

[Ankamius]

I'm going to lol if nom is scum andvolpe was killed partially to protect her

[Ankamius]

hi maria want to talk?

[Ankamius]

Sure thing! What about?
Besides the fact I was about to call out the survivor for the biggest scummy replaceout when I was catching up but now I can't take credit. HUFF

what do you think about the volpe nk

[Ankamius]

what does your team think atm a50

This is MY game now. I will listen to their reads/advice and will discuss in the PT, but I am not sharing the source of anything I say anymore.

I think it's would be FUNNY for me that way. :twisted:

ok

[Ankamius]

if you're going to be like that a50 then I'm just going to assume everything you say is you and just ignore it

ty

[Ankamius]

and that's not a dig at your skill level or really anything other than how you've been responding to me

so

[Ankamius]

alright

where are your reads at atm

[Ankamius]

I want an update because I feel the game has undergone a pretty significant shift

[Ankamius]

vote EP with me?

[Ankamius]

dunn

I've had confident townreads on mariar before

it's not the most common thing ever but it does happen at times, and really there's no point in second guessing a read like that when there's much more scumworthy slots out there

[Ankamius]

btw dann thinks gamma is like... really town

and he was able to explain it in a way that convinced me of it, so gamma's under my protection today

[Ankamius]

Ankamius
chennisden/Gammagooey
MariaR/Almost50/Flavor Leaf/Firebringer
panthaleon/davesaz/Dr Easy Bake
kuribo/nomnomnom/DeasVail
EspressoPatronum

this is where I'm at roughly atm

[Ankamius]

I don't believe there's any scenario where anybody in my bottom 4 has any business hitting endgame

[Ankamius]

I'm listening. To the Gamma part anyway.

Dunn wants you to link a game where you've confidently tr me before.

forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=10826574#p10826574

and I was confidently townreading maria by the end in starry night; the only reason I didn't want my pairing to endgame is because I valued holding town together over burning all my credibility to try to force it

[Ankamius]

I'm listening. To the Gamma part anyway.

Ayyyyy firebringer

VOTE: DeasVail

Also I'm

V/LA

from tomorrow until the 25th (going on vacation to Universal Studios), I'll probably check in most evenings though.

Also for anyone who cares my vote on Deas is reinforced by the fact that his behavior around volxen feels like scum setting up to take advantage of a town-volxen flip while he also seems very unconcerned by both Anka and Almost/skitter coming in with "hey this is actually just what volxen does as scum"

And I still think nom looks very town from her initial fight with volpe early game and 180'ing her read on him at the beginning of that so if you think Deas has a mitigating factor of 'maybe he's right about nom being scum' plz tell me why I'm wrong

Dann thought Gamma specifically pointing this out was like... really really town

and he specifically hunted for scum that were trying to keep their hands clean on the Volxen townflip, which Deas and EP exhibited the strongest from his quick readthrough

[Ankamius]

btw just noting for the record also

that just from a quick skim, Gamma was pretty consistent about scumreading BOTH deasvail and ep, as well as setting up to get as little benefit out of a volxen townflip as possible

I'd be shocked if gamma flipped scum at this point

[Ankamius]

I don't think the nomnomnom townread is really scum indicative at all

going all out on just townreading nomnomnom instead of trying to protect her doesn't make sense from a SvS perspective and it doesn't make sense from a SvT perspective either since there's not a whole lot of point in bothering at all if he would just kill volpe anyway

the entire mindset behind his posting is just town

[Ankamius]

I think FL is skirting around, kuribo is lol pushing EP to get FL last man standing ability (as he overreacted to elements) and nomnom is taking the same approach she has taken with elements and not getting her feet warm in the most hot wagon of the day that it's not me.

In the hood I made clear that I was commuting Ank. I think that a scum team outside of nomnom/FL especially would kill either me to frame them or Ank because she would have such a good solve by TR both of them/me.

They killed Fark that was lukewarm about nomnom, FL, Gamma, Ank and that the NK wouldn't make a nomnom/FL team look bad.

I don't see Ank as scum here so the most reasonable deduction is that it's probably FL/nomnom. Alternatively almost all the scum team is in the lurkers but I think I would go with the first guess.

We know as a fact that elements was town and the ultra lynchbaity in the game. Do you think that scum see'ing me pushing them would likely jump on it like Ank?

I don't think so. I think scum see'ing that wagon would get a bit shy about it and even kuribo voted elements mostly behind the shield of "it's trust tell and needs to die" which isn't like kuribo was actually scum reading Elems or at least he could have passed off like that in the next day.

There was two people that besides me paid attention to Elements:

Ank and Fark, and I think in the hood I said about me giving town points to them (and one of the reasons I commuted Ank anyway). One of them flipped town, do you think Ank isn't?

Nomnom/FL were also shading Fark by the way while I was town leaning the guy (and I'm see'ing the same pattern to their treatment of Ank).

VOTE: flavor leaf

I think I scum read FL even more than nomnom.

You know Ank, I'm just gonna treat you as my mason now that Fark is dead. I don't feel bad about GiF and I do understand he might have IRL reasons but his lack of reply in the hood makes me want to move you to my top town read.

By the way we should retire after this game.

yup volpe was definitely scumreading me

[Ankamius]

This whole talk is making me want to retreat into my PT and talk with Dunn honestly, but he's fine with your reasoning around me. I just feel uneasy.

I don't think Gamma voting Deas is that groundbreaking. I'm not following you on the nomnom townread line. Mostly because I don't fully understand it.

if nom is scum, then I can easily see one of the reasons Volpe was killed being so that people would protect her from being lynched today since there was such a huge deal made about the last man standing power in that hood (and GiF being almost entirely absent for most of the game), especially since there was a good amount of talk made about not lynching in that hood specifically for that reason before

even if I'm misremembering and it's just A50 pushing that both days, then it just makes a50 look really bad and a prime mislynch target later, so

and nomnomnom has been such a popular scumread over time that just townreading her outright is a much harder road to protecting her since it's far more easy to challenge in a way that could potentially out both of them as scum.

in the case that nomnomnom is town and gamma is scum, that's still a weird stance to risk going toe to toe on since it's still a somewhat unpopular stance and it would be hard to justify with the rest of his reads being fairly standard and workable otherwise

main thing is that I expect scum to be wanting to protect scum!nom indirectly via having town protect her rather than protecting her themselves, and this way also potentially keeps nomnomnom as a permanent mislynch target without outright derailing it for the future in a town!nom world

[Ankamius]

Ank asking me for my reads kinda hit me in the gut because I had to pause and go 'uh' and that's bad on day 3 to me. Along with the whole 'game state shift' thing that makes me go ??? Like, nothing has made me really change my mind much. I don't feel like my reads have shifted much yet my confidence level on certain reads isn't at what I want them to be. This is kinda just a ramble

ngl

I've been a lot less willing to put effort into this game up until d3 started

I haven't really been retaining most of the game

[Ankamius]

the posts I quoted are far more recent than either of those

[Ankamius]

FL and Firebringer are ones I'll need explanation on along with why Panthaleon isn't locked town for reasons I explained

FL is one of those headache slots that I'd rather just leave as town and wait on because he's just... idk, reminding me of vengeful
Firebringer mainly because both dann and eddie think that slot's town

they're both reads that are prone to being reassessed later if I feel the need to

[Ankamius]

if it helps

I don't think A50 would be this sloppy in how he's playing as scum

[Ankamius]

Not that anybody cares, but did you know that both NK'd players had ANK as a STRING SCUM READ? Like, Farkan had both Ank & chenn as explicit SRs, while Volpe had nomnom & Ank at his likely scum tier which was his lowest rank.

Interestingly, Elements had both nom & chenn as scum (only 2 explicit SRs) but had Ank as Town. But then Elements was not NK'd so..

I know, I know.. they're dead so they have no say and their reads mean shit because we know better (and we being still alive proves it. Right?)

like

this is so easily proven wrong that I don't feel like he'd be so aggressively confident in it unless he was town believing it

[Ankamius]

I think my head is just a mess because I've experiencing things in this mafia game that has legit never happened to me before.

oh believe me, you're not alone in that