TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[DeasVail]

Heyyyy

[DeasVail]

Scum is probably busy in their PT about how to handle my slot

For real?

[DeasVail]

Okay.

Moving onto more important topics.

Do we have any single ladies in the house tonight?

[DeasVail]

I'm a pringle mingle and ready to single

Now put your hands up!

[DeasVail]

I don't know what hellscape timezone the forums I have somehow switched to on my forums account, but I don't think it's 8am friday morning because I'd be off work by then.

vote:DeasVail

long time no see

It’s been too long!

[DeasVail]

‘Cause if you like it then you shoulda put a ring on it

[DeasVail]

All the single ladies

(All the single ladies)

[DeasVail]

Hey Deas

What's the worst post in the game so far in your opinion? I don't need an explanation atm but I might bug you about it later when everyone's shown up and posted something meaningfulish

I didn't feel especially passionate about any single post up to this stage, however if I absolutely had to pick one it would be 67.

[DeasVail]

Despite my being a big fan of flavour, I hope DeasVail's future posts will stray away from it.

I can't feel your halo

[DeasVail]

You already messed up when you didn't have me in town.

In your recent posts I need to remind myself you're GiF and not actually RC.

Is there a reason why this is relevant?

I feel that we as a game need to get over this.

[DeasVail]

I worry that the GiF/RC meme is becoming over-used to excuse people from taking stances on GiF.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Espresso Patronum

[DeasVail]

I worry that the GiF/RC meme is becoming over-used to excuse people from taking stances on GiF.

Now I can't not ask.
What's your stance on me owo

I can feel your halo (halo) halo

[DeasVail]

Espresso hasn't made any new posts between these - did you reread and change your mind or is Espresso's iso worse than the sum of its parts in your opinion?

My response to you was only considering posts prior to the post you made.

[DeasVail]

ugh finally finished reading everything

You ain't never seen a fire like the one I'm gon' cause

Spoiler:

Okay that probably makes it sound like I'm going to be much more exciting than I actually will be.

I think FL is town
I think Volpe is town
I think GiF is town

I even think nomnomnom could be town (less sure of that though)

I still can't really feel Espresso's halo

Dr. Easy Bake
chennisden
Volxen
Almost50

are also concerning to me either based on their posts or a lack of posts indicating town to me. There is definitely post-count bias here but whatever.

[DeasVail]

Deas

what do you think the most important part of the game so far to read through is?

uhh I'll see what I can dig up

[DeasVail]

Page 24-25 was where I came to an understanding of the FL/Volpe/Nom/GiF situation that I felt comfortable with.

[DeasVail]

That's what mafia is all about though

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Espresso Patronum

Naked vote.

[...]
I still can't really feel Espresso's halo
[...]

Why?

What have you got against nudity?

[DeasVail]

Okay, I'm back up to date.

I think that nomnom and Almost50 are scum.

I probably think that dave is town but I need to go over his posts again. I will probably still think he is town.

More on all this will arrive soon.

[DeasVail]

I don't think I would be very good at doing that

[DeasVail]

So I've been thinking a lot about the neighbourhood thing, because that was such a BIG EVENT and one could easily take the thought of, "oh that's quite the standout thing to do, and ultimately town-motivated to TAKE A STAND and OUT THE SCUM in your neighbourhood", and this was actually my initial thought.

However, given my reconsideration of the event and the progression since then, I'm more inclined to believe it was actually just fake outrage and hot air in the nomnom-scum style. There has since been a lot of bemoaning of "the disaster" GiF created, focus on the fact that she was receiving accusations whilst not having people vote her (totally irrelevant distraction) and a BIG MOVE VOTE on Farkran without any real attempt to progress this (despite outing her neighbourhood in dramatic fashion earlier in order to justify suspicion of Volpe).

Her play started out with initiative (which I now believe to be scum attempt at looking town), and has now become largely reactionary, while I expect that initiative would have continued if nomnom were town.

[DeasVail]

My feelings on Almost50 essentially boil down to,

almost every post he makes (over 50 of them now) seems designed to show off the fact that he has real townie feelings and thought processes.

[DeasVail]

Regarding dave, I feel that the main reason to believe he could be scum is that "walking on eggshells" impression that someone else mentioned, the fear of putting a foot wrong and this coming across in his posting. This is indeed the kind of thing I would expect from dave as scum.

However, I actually think there are situations where this is clearly not the case. 614 is such an awkward post for someone to make as scum if they're scared of putting a foot wrong. It's just, such a tangential thought in relation to the situation and high risk of drawing ire from other players. I also like his general posting in regards to neighbourhood that seems to have rubbed others the wrong way?

[DeasVail]

It looks like he chose a Beyonce-Loving gimmick but ditched it real quick.

My love you've given me a taste of your honey, I want the whole beehive

[DeasVail]

It looks like he chose a Beyonce-Loving gimmick but ditched it real quick.

My love you've given me a taste of your honey, I want the whole beehive

yeah I definitely want that beehive

Also

UNVOTE: Espresso
VOTE: nomnomnom

[DeasVail]

I'm mostly just indifferent to elements? I don't feel passionate enough about him to oppose a lynch there, but I feel nom is actually more likely to be scum.

[DeasVail]

^ above questions may also be addressed at vex vience, deasvail and chennis, actually

I still think nom is scum.

I also don’t agree with the Ank post you quoted being scummy, but if there’s more then I’ll look into it

[DeasVail]

Ank, why is your read of me influenced by what is in/not in my scumrange?

I ask because there’s nothing especially notable about my posts so far. I haven’t posted anything that I “wouldn’t be able” to post as scum.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that there is good reason for other people to think I’m town here, but your focus on my “scumrange” feels lazy.

[DeasVail]

Ank, why is your read of me influenced by what is in/not in my scumrange?

I ask because there’s nothing especially notable about my posts so far. I haven’t posted anything that I “wouldn’t be able” to post as scum.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that there is good reason for other people to think I’m town here, but your focus on my “scumrange” feels lazy.

it's a focus because I can't be confident on you being town or scum

you're experienced enough to know how to keep thought processes/trajectories in order, I don't know you well enough to tell the difference, and you have a playstyle I struggle to accurately parse

Wouldn’t that indicate you may need to take a different approach to reading me? Rather than thought processes/trajectories?

[DeasVail]

How fun. Glad all our time got put into that. Thanks Ele.

VOTE: DV

I'm bigger than life, my name in the lights
I'm the number one chick, I don't need no hype

[DeasVail]

Vex scumleaning me here doesn't make sense to me at all. (Actually, most of his reads don't make sense to me).

This concerns me

Everybody’s part of the conclusion we lynch in the Commuter group, right?

I'm interested in why.

--

Anyway, I was pretty big on nomnom-scum overnight but I'm actually losing interest in that now. Which I think necessitates that I reconsider how I'm viewing the game.
However, I'm also not super passionate about lynching in the Commuter hood. If someone has a compelling reason that I'm missing then feel free to convince me.

My townlist btw is pretty much as follows.

Pretty confident:

Davesaz
chennisden
Volpe14
Vex Vience
MariaR
kuribo

Not as confident:

Flavor Leaf
Gammagooey
Ankamius
GuyInFreezer
Volxen

(nomnomnom) - this one requires more thought before I can commit to a townread but it could end up getting there.

And then there's everyone else. None of whom I feel especially passionate about.

I want to scumread Almost50 but there's an element of oddness to his posting that gives me second thoughts. I want to scumready Espresso, but that just feels... insubstantial...

[DeasVail]

ok scum

but then stuff like this just makes my scumsenses tingle

[DeasVail]

Sure! What would you like to talk about?

[DeasVail]

I like most of your quoted posts from a theory standpoint, except the one about the value of a GiF lynch. I don't really think in those terms.

But even though it attracted some controversy at the time, I liked your point about looking on the sidelines in 1856, and I don't have an issue with a reads list that follows a post count trend.

I don't find anything about you to be overwhelmingly town, but I generally like the content of your posts, even if a lot of it is not incredibly AI to me.

[DeasVail]

There are some people that you could argue as being on the sidelines (such as Gamma and Kuribo), that I think are more likely town.

In a lot of ways I do feel like A50 is an active linesman. And Espresso a less active linesman.

[DeasVail]

dv, why are you now being active, compared to yesterday?

My activity is largely the same. There are just less posts from other people.

[DeasVail]

Hmmm actually

VOTE: Ankamius

I want to sit on this for a bit, but essentially I think it’s a case of there being a lot of town that are actually showing themselves as town, but I don’t actually have anything from Ankamius that makes me think she must be town.

Also, I townread Davesaz. I will explain why when I have more time.

[DeasVail]

I take a mirror and

VOTE: Volxen

Why would scum drop in and make a (very well reasoned) post about one specific player and no one else and then disappear again?

[DeasVail]

expected him to be better than he has been so far
VOTE: Deasvail

I expect I will be better today or tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

a thought just occurred to me

Deas, how much are you basing your interpretation of my game off starry night?

Not at all, actually.

[DeasVail]

I am in the process of reviewing all my reads and putting together my thoughts on everyone, because I think the game needs that right now. I will post my thoughts on Akamius now and the rest (including my thoughts on the gamestate) will arrive over the next day or so.

Spoiler: Ankamius

10 TIMES OUT OF 9 I KNOW YOU LYIN'
BUT 9 TIMES OUTTA 10 I KNOW YOU TRYING

General Impression: Leaning towards scum. Her posts convey an impression of “looseness”, of being somewhat apathetic, but I actually think this is Ankamius trying to look town. There is not much about her posting thus far that I actually find to strongly indicate town (compared with me having townreads on most of the game) and I don’t think she is sincerely trying to scumhunt or help the town, despite making posts that seem designed to make a display of this.

Specific posts:

1255 causes me some doubt about my read, but my concern about Ankamius’ play in general weighs in stronger for me.

1969 – Dismissing Farkran’s suspicion as not understanding her playstyle.
The initiation of conversation with me in 2174 doesn’t really go anywhere, and seems more focused on herself than actually reading me. Why isn’t she scumreading me? Why doesn’t she have some kind of proper stance on me other than that my posting is within my “scumrange” (see 1968). What even is my scumrange? A quick look at some scumgames of mine will reveal much more ABILITY than what I have shown so far. It feels like it comes from a scum position of deciding to keep me as a mislynch option for later but without the risk of going after me early.
Comparing 2177 to later posts about how scum killing Farkran just makes sense is odd? It feels like an attempt to join in on the NKA but I don’t actually see it as a natural progression.
2236 – Isn’t really trying to convince me of Volxen being scum.
2275 – On the surface, can be thought of as “Why would scum post this?” but the even more pertinent question is, why would town? It’s demoralising and unhelpful.

[DeasVail]

There's no point when I know nothing will convince the people that aren't already convinced

Tell me how should I feel, when I know what I know and my female intuition telling me you a dog?

[DeasVail]

There are some people that you could argue as being on the sidelines (such as Gamma and Kuribo), that I think are more likely town.

In a lot of ways I do feel like A50 is an active linesman. And Espresso a less active linesman.

I forgot to ask what linesman means in this post.

Like soccer referees that are on the sidelines

[DeasVail]

Spoiler: Dr. Easy Bake

Just tell me how it's lookin' babe, just tell me how it's lookin' babe

General impression: I don’t really know what his alignment is but I like him! I guess I generally lean town on him because he clearly doesn’t seem to care what people think? And he’s not playing in a way that’s actually set up for long-term longevity in this game.

Specific posts:

I actually kind of like 1407? He’s been asked a question by his neighbor-buddy and is clearly not taking it seriously, which kind of makes sense given that he was annoyed with his neighbourhood at the time!
I also feel like 2452 is more likely from town DEB than scum.

All that said, I need more from DEB. He’s not a strong townread by any means.

Spoiler: Flavor Leaf

I love his big ego
It's too much
He walk like this 'cause he can back it up

General impression: I’m not ruling out scum, but from a quick re-skim over his posts, I think FL is still probably town? He seems fairly transparent and this townread initially started during that weird FL vs. Volpe 1v1 where FL’s thought processes actually seemed quite dynamic in a town way.

Specific posts:

There are too many of them

Spoiler: davesaz

I don’t know much about fighting, but I know I will fight for you

General impression: My thoughts remain the same! I think dave is attracting scumreads because his posting style generally comes across as cautious which creates a scummy feeling, but for me, all evidence still points to Dave being town.

Specific posts:

614 is such a weird post for scum to make!
1222 – I like that he’s highlighting that his team aren’t very involved in the game. Often as scum in TM I think there can be pressure to pretend that your team is more involved than they are.
I like the 2054 and 2066 interaction with chenn and the development of a townready on chenn from it. I feel the temptation for scum here would be to ride the wave of FRUSTRATION as an excuse for having doubts for chenn’s alignment.

Spoiler: chennisden

Our love was stronger than your pride

General Impression: Coming out of Day 1 I think my townread on chennisden was stronger than it is now that I’ve gone over all of his posts again. However, I still think chenn is town! I like the progression of his reads on dave and gamma throughout the game. I can get a pretty good idea of how chenn is thinking about the game behind his posting, and I think that there is a lot of town conflict of thought in his posts that I feel scum would be worried would come across as wishy-washy.

Specific posts:

My read is more based on a general impression of chenn’s play than any specific posts, but these are a few that stood out to me.

435
1371 – not wanting to strongarm dave read
1607 sensible conflict of thought in regards to kuribo.

Spoiler: Vex Vience

Love forgive me I’ve been running, running blind in truth

General Impression: Town!

Specific Posts:

- The notes are cute. There’s also a lot about me being scummy without actually using that to push a scumread on me. Seems like a waste of effort for scum!
[post=2197]2197- I think this post in regards to hoods and how scum will night-kill does not come from a scum mindset. I actually think that scum are quite likely to kill in all-town hoods. They would be the most scary things to me if I were scum. Vex’s post also places a lot of emphasis on scum wanting the power, but I actually really doubt scum care and I certainly wouldn’t really as scum. But while I think it makes total sense for scum to shoot in an all-town hood and then create paranoia like this about the shot, I really don’t think scum would go about it in the style of Vex’s post.

Also the Maria neighbourhood thing.

Spoiler: Volxen

My love you've given me a taste of your honey
I want the whole beehive

General Impression: Super short ISO I love it! I don’t really understand the scumreads here? I like the posts. They show good thoughts on the game while my guess is that scum would pay more attention to being active and that their effort would be more devoted to keeping up a pretense of activity rather than actual decent posts.

--

I’ll stop there for now, but insight into what my other reads will probably be:

MariaR- Cautiously town
Gammagooey- Not actually sure, but I was previously leaning town
Kuribo- Town
GiF- No idea. I really need to reread his posts.
Volpe14- Town
Espresso- Probably town
Almost50- Probably town
Nomnomnom- Probably scum

PEDIT: I disagree that it's scummy though?

[DeasVail]

Spoiler: MariaR

… Boo hoo, oh, did you expect me to care?
You don't deserve my tears
I guess that's why they ain't there

General Impression: Actually potentially scum? There are posts and aspects of Maria's play that I like, but there are also worrying things for me that make me very uncomfortable thinking of her as town.

Specific posts:

There's a lot of complaining about the gamestate. I get it, the gamestate sucks. I've been complaining to my team about it the whole time. The Elements modkill REALLY disrupted things. But at least from my perspective, her posts about the gamestate are more demoralising than actually helping it.
2577- I understand how it is to feel like no one is paying attention to your posts, but that's what happens in mafia. And for example, with me, there wasn't much effort put into actually getting people to vote for me, or into understanding why people weren't voting for me. I liked 2267, but where to from there? 2295 could be considered an effort to get things going, but it's not the kind of thing that can really be responded to. It's not addressing anyone in particular.
2707- Again, I get it, but is it actually helping?
2708 Reads as "things suck, but I'm not going to do anything about it"
2721 Similar theme.

That all said, I'm not sure, and Maria, I think we should talk. I agree that things here have sucked and I want to do something about it. I'll start it off by saying that I still need to properly review my Espresso read but I think he is town for the weird pushing for everyone to out their neighbourhoods. I agree with you that the neighbourhood outing was a bad idea, but it seems even more unlikely for scum to actively and publicly try and make everyone out themselves.

[DeasVail]

I don't really think Maria is scum anymore.

Spoiler: Gammagooey

I'll be there for you if somebody hurts you

Even if that somebody is me

General Impression: I think he's town. The way that he's going about the game is very town and there are so many opportunities in his play to just play in ways that are more scummy but he doesn't take them! Woah

Specific posts:

1993- love it. So good.
2204- Obvious attempt to convert the gamestate to something productive.
2380- I don't think that vote on me comes from scum. I think that scum would try to come up with better reasoning before voting for me than "I expected him to be better".
2815- Super sensible posting! Scum could easily just contribute to the chaos by continuing to push me there.

Spoiler: kuribo

I'm a host of imperfection, and you see past all that

General Impression: I've thought all game that kuribo is town. I think this read is at risk of becoming stale, but not yet!

Specific things:

Early townread on me - I'm not going to bother linking the posts, but an uncharacteristically strong early townread on me would be weird coming from kuribo-scum. I'd expect him to at least fake more paranoia in regards to my alignment even if he was planning on pocketing me.
I thought that Kuribo's reaction to the whole Elements thing came from a town place rather than scum.
2712 I feel is possible as both alignments, however I think he's less likely to care about that kind of thing as scum.

Spoiler: GuyInFreezer

If you thought I would wait for you, you thought

wrong

My read on GuyInFreezer from his early play is leaning town, but I think my read will largely be influenced by his play when he returns, so I'm leaving this there for now.

Spoiler: Volpe14

When you leave, I'm begging you not to go
Call your name two or three times in a row

General Impression: Town!

Specific posts: Read them!

Spoiler: EspressoPatronum

Remember those walls I built
Well, baby, they're tumbling down

General Impression: Sorry Maria, but I still have Espresso as a townread. I think a lot of his play is a bit ~tone deaf~ for scum, who I think would make more attempt to read the mood of the room.

Specific posts:

I still read his general neighbourhood-outing stuff as town, and more recently:
2755- The existence of this post in combination with sassy posts at other times feels kind of town rather than scum going for a style of play.
2785, 2790- I think this comes from a town sense of self-importance rather than scum.
2793- Why is he still pushing the neighbourhood-outing thing!! It's just going to piss everyone off.

Spoiler: Almost50

I love you even more than who I thought you were before

I'm just going to leave it there for now. If anyone wants to talk to me about it, I'll explain it later.

--

I know I have too many townreads, and that's a problem I can sort out later.

BUT I think Ankamius and nomnomnom are scum. The nomnomnom read I'll explain later when I'm in a better place to because I want to make sure I explain that right. (My team also backs me up on the nomnom read)

I don't know where the vote count is at right now, but I feel like the current lynch options are town and I don't like that.

[DeasVail]

Actually I've probably changed my mind on Volxen

[DeasVail]

I'm reconsidering my previous townread

[DeasVail]

I don't think know is the time for me to rage on about a nomnom scumread, particularly given that I also scumread Ank and am weighing up the possibility of Volxen being scum.

I want to see what Volxen does now that they have votes.

[DeasVail]

I don’t actually know. It made sense in my head at the time but I don’t know why

[DeasVail]

so Deas, what you're saying is

1. you're scumreading me
2. you're also scumreading two of my scumreads
3. one of your other scumreads is scumreading both of your other scumreads

I think it might be worth looking at your townreads and seeing who you're wrong on

because just... what lol

I don't think this actually makes sense when you think about it.

Mafia is very much a game of continuously updating reads as you go, at least for me it is. I don't expect to be right about everything at the beginning. Over the course of Day 1 and Day 2 some of my reads have undergone massive overhaul.

Also one mafia member merely having a scumread on another mafia member at a single point in time does not greatly increase the chances of scum being lynched, especially given the above.

[DeasVail]

Nonetheless, Ankamius, if you vote nomnom, then I will as well. What do you reckon?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: nomnomnom

Let's do it!

VOTE: nomnomnom

[DeasVail]

VOTE: nomnomnom

Let's do it!

VOTE: nomnomnom

Please don't add more fuel to the fire. I mean, I still somehow have a Town Lean on you (despite the fact having too many TRs is usually a scumtell, because scum struggle to find fake reasons to SR/suspect someone they know is Town, are too afraid to go out of their way and move into the center of the stage, and they want to buddy-buddy with everyone so as not to have as many foes). I say, despite all that I still SOMEHOW lean Town on you, so please don't trigger my paranoia (which usually gets triggered when we run in circles and have no red flips).

Thanks for the advice and I am incredibly grateful that you somehow don’t scumread me, but I would like to vote for who I want to vote for!

Also I will post more about nomnom tonight! A quick look through my (fairly short) ISO will show reasons for me scumreading her previously if anyone requires that. I mean, I could easily fake some reasons if people want me too but actually explaining why I read someone the way I do in a way that makes sense to other people takes more effort. Also reading nom’s reaction to the votes has been useful!

[DeasVail]

I really don't like the feel of this counterwagon.

Especially if someone already thinks voxlen looks scummy.

You're either willing to lynch a slot or you're just pissing in the wind with your vote. A slot asking for replacement isn't going to change alignment.

Why do we need to limit the focus to one slot while awaiting a replacement? That doesn’t feel very productive to me.

[DeasVail]

I agree re: Ank but her vote of nom after I suggested it makes me doubt my scumread slightly.

[DeasVail]

Can we end Volxen already so we can solve this game

Are you interested at all in what insights into the slot a replacement would be able to offer?

[DeasVail]

I'm not as certain that Volxen is scum. I can't really justify a townread on him after further thought, but I'm feeling cautious.

[DeasVail]

Also, thinking with perhaps slightly more certainty that you are scum, nom, is a complicating factor.

For the record, there are many little things in nom's posts that I get the impression are faked reactions, or approaches to the game that don't come from a genuine town-place.

I don't like the re-fixation on Volpe, the importance of noting Volxen-scum --> Volpe-scum (makes me worried about nom-scum/volx-town tbh)
- 2894- Superficial reasoning with added "look at how town I am!"
My team didn't like the interaction with Volpe going from 2528 to 2550. They felt like it came from a fairly widely townread nom-scum who felt able to dismiss Volpe's suspicion due to "gamestate".

The approach to my slot is incredibly passive compared to people like Gamma and Maria who were actively trying to sort me/engage in discussions about me. The well-intentioned by misguided cheerleading in 2888 "DV looks really bad" and the 2480 "something isn't quite right" aren't really good enough. It's as if she's got me as a scumread ready to go but not until she has permission from the town to act on it.

[DeasVail]

You think the slot's town? Convince me.

But you know I don't have a reply to this

[DeasVail]

I still need to read up on Day 3 stuff, but I just need to say.

I looked away for an hour and there were ten pages. Neat.

I don't buy the push on kuribo right now. It just looks like nonsense to me.

Also for fun all of the notes from the previous player in this slot are handwritten in a notebook that was then photographed and uploaded. As near as I can tell, they had a pool so I'm going to park my vote on one of these folks for now.

VOTE: omnom

If anyone can give me a SHORT tl;dr off whose scummy or what for the first two days is relevant, I'm happy to have somewhere to start looking.

Hey! I'm really glad you're here.

I strongly thought your predecessor was town so I'm hoping we'll be able to work together here. I can assure you I'm town so if you need anything from me to be convinced of that, be sure to let me know.

[DeasVail]

pedit: DV did you read why I said Vex was lock town? No one commented on it

This was in Day 2 right? If so, it formed part of my reason for townreading Vex.

[DeasVail]

Also for anyone who cares my vote on Deas is reinforced by the fact that his behavior around volxen feels like scum setting up to take advantage of a town-volxen flip while he also seems very unconcerned by both Anka and Almost/skitter coming in with "hey this is actually just what volxen does as scum"

And I still think nom looks very town from her initial fight with volpe early game and 180'ing her read on him at the beginning of that so if you think Deas has a mitigating factor of 'maybe he's right about nom being scum' plz tell me why I'm wrong

I'll take you to my thought processes during that time:

- When I was going through my reads, I thought Volxen was town
- I did notice A50 mentioning that the posts were similar to what Volxen does as scum. This is what caused me to make the post about reconsidering the Volxen read. But I remained hesitant about this, because I didn't have a scumread on Volxen from his posting, and I was pretty hesitant to trust A50/Skitter's opinion (even if I assumed he was town).
- People seemed overly eager to vote Volxen RIGHT NOW and I thought a replacement would be good insight into the slot. I'm pretty sure I didn't do any defending of Volxen at this point though and specifically told kuribo I didn't have reason to townread Volxen.
- Cephrir and Klick were both backing up my nom scumread and so that felt a more interesting wagon to pursue.

If the above doesn't help then all I can say is that you're wrong about me being scum. And as much as people are justifying yesterday's lynch I actually think how it came about and the fact that it happened was pretty bad and we need to stop justifying bad town play. Gamma, I think you're town and I want to come to a situation where we can townread each other because I honestly feel beaten down by how this game has gone and I feel I need to try a different approach to bring people who I think are town together so that we can actually sort this shit out. Call this AtE, call this me trying to manipulate someone out of a scumread of me, call it whatever, I don't care. But I'm desperate not to let this game continue as it has.

PEdit: Why are people going over Volpe reads lists?

[DeasVail]

I think I will want to lynch nom or kuribo

[DeasVail]

Tell me the secrets behind your reads why is nom such a good lynch and what draws you to voting kuribo over others in the game

I honestly think nom is scum. I think that her posts are designed to make herself look town. I think her posting after the final vote on Day 2 and her posting about the kill Day 3 are scum pretending to have been convinced that Volxen was scum.

I've come around to thinking that kuribo doesn't actually care about the (game-related) things that he is saying. I think that he's pretending to have stronger opinions about things than what he actually does. For example, the Volxen scumread yesterday. Whatever he's been talking about today, I honestly forget. It all seems like white noise to me and is not as town goal-directed as I would expect from kuribo.

[DeasVail]

Tell me the secrets behind your reads why is nom such a good lynch and what draws you to voting kuribo over others in the game

I honestly think nom is scum. I think that her posts are designed to make herself look town. I think her posting after the final vote on Day 2 and her posting about the kill Day 3 are scum pretending to have been convinced that Volxen was scum.

Can you point out a post or two that you think shows that really well? I can go back and find the context to it myself if you link it.

I remember you waffling around on your nom read earlier in the game (I want to say day 1 but it could have been early d2), do you remember why you had nom as possible town and why you think it no longer applies?

End of Day 2:
- 3099
- 3109
- 3112
- 3141

Day 3:
- 3280
- 3283
- 3292
- 3305

As for what made me doubt my scumread, I don't remember. I think it was just in that moment that I wasn't feeling as confident in nom being scum.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Kuribo

[DeasVail]

DV who's starting to worry me because he's becoming erratic

What is worrying about that to you exactly?

[DeasVail]

DV if you think nom is scum, why are you voting kuribo?

You're not scum again are you >:(

DV if you think nom is scum, why are you voting kuribo?

DV I'm trying to delve deep into your heart here and then you go and make another vote I don't understand it's frankly quite rude

I read a few of your links and they're not great but nothing super damning imo (though I'm going to read them again tonight when I'm not on mobile), there's a few posts around there that felt pretty genuine though (particularly nom mentioning she was laughing at creature coming in basically the second he was hammered)

The vote on kuribo was not the first time I had indicated suspicion of him, and in responding to gamma I did have some doubt on nom being scum.

I've also felt pretty low in confidence in my reads and so with my team being quite passionate about kuribo and nom being scum I wanted to push there.

[DeasVail]

Nonetheless, I am fairly confident in these people being town:

davesaz
chennisden
panthaleon (he didn't respond to my greeting though :'( )
Gammagooey
Almost50

Ankamius and MariaR are almost there for me I think.

That leaves DEB, FL, kuribo, Espresso, Firebringer, nom

I don't want to lynch FL today.

But apart from that I don't have super strong feelings personally.

[DeasVail]

I still need to catch up on latest posts, but what’s the rationale for role-blocking the ability of a hood. It seems very anti-town?

[DeasVail]

Nonetheless, I am fairly confident in these people being town:

davesaz
chennisden
panthaleon (he didn't respond to my greeting though :'( )
Gammagooey
Almost50

Ankamius and MariaR are almost there for me I think.

That leaves DEB, FL, kuribo, Espresso, Firebringer, nom

I don't want to lynch FL today.

But apart from that I don't have super strong feelings personally.

Those reads are a bunch of horseshit and completely contradict what you said previously.

You're playing according to where others want to lynch and trying to get by.
VOTE: DV

Confidence in reads changes and is influenced by what my team says and other people post? There’s really no scum benefit to me adjusting my reads to fit the game state.

[DeasVail]

DV who's starting to worry me because he's becoming erratic

What is worrying about that to you exactly?

You wanted no part of a wagon on someone that you couldn't even be bothered to claim was town. You looked at that wagon on an extremely scummy player (volxen), said you didn't have any reason not to lynch it, and then wouldn't put your vote where your mouth was. It makes me wonder why you'd avoid a wagon on someone you said you couldn't make a town case for. You can excuse not voting voxlen all you want by saying you thought a replacement would offer insight (how'd that work out) but I still maintain that if you're THAT sure a slot is scum, it won't offer insight. Ever. I've been making this stand for years. Hell, I've had people hand me the hammer on replacements I'm scumreading because they know I won't hesitate to save the mod the trouble.

You can say all you want that you'd been building to your vote on me for a while, but your posts don't indicate that either.

You think nom is scum, but you're not voting there either.

You've said you don't think I "care" about the game. Have you played with me since 2012?! I don't fucking pretend to have stronger opinions than I really have, dude. And if I have some apathy, have you considered I've already explained that this game is complete dogshit for me? Do I really need to go on another multi-paragraph rant about why I hate being alive in this shit?

Bottom line: You're playing it safe with your votes. You were confident enough in nom scum to counterwagon off volxen (who you didn't townread) and yet today you're trying to stay off a nom wagon.

So yeah, dude, I'd say your behavior is worrying.

I don’t think I have played with you since 2012.

And I never actually had a scumread on volxen. He’d made hardly any posts so it would make sense that I would want to wait for more info before lynching that slot.

My suspicion of you was to a large degree influenced by discussion with my team and I’m pretty sure I’ve indicated that.

I also think you’ve taken a vote to mean more than it actually does. I don’t need to be super confident in a nom scumread to vote nom Day 2. I haven’t had much confidence in any scumreads to be honest.

UNVOTE: Kuribo
VOTE: Nom

I’ve decided that this is where I want to go. I will have to talk with my team about the kuribo read because I do think he could be town while they were strongly scumreading him. Watch this space.

My team, however, is aligned on nom being scum and I think that they’re justification used to vote me is further evidence of that. I think that nom has been looking for an excuse to suspect me for a while and the reads contradiction thing is... super weak? There was not even that much change in my reads and I think it would be expected by town that reads would change. This feels like scum deciding that they want to be on my wagon or want to “suspect” me and have been searching for a reason to justify it. It does not feel like town considering a slot’s posts and forming a read based on that.

Gamma, you’ve said that no one is trying to convince anyone of nom being scum but I have pretty consistently throughout the game been talking about why nom is scum.

—

Dave, I’m interested in why you haven’t used our hood to try and form your read on me. I still think you’re probably town but I’d like to hear from you about it.

I also really do need justification from Maria/kuribo about why roleblocking an unknown hood’s ability is considered a good idea. Isn’t it most likely that this ability will be mostly town-controlled?

[DeasVail]

Dave and I were in the hood with Farkran and I still think it was an all-town hood. I think it makes a lot of sense for scum to kill in an all-town hood because they are dangerous to scum and it causes suspicion.

I also think it is unlikely that Dave is scum because Farkran was confident in our hood being all-town so why not milk that?

[DeasVail]

I also really do need justification from Maria/kuribo about why roleblocking an unknown hood’s ability is considered a good idea. Isn’t it most likely that this ability will be mostly town-controlled?

Asked and answered. We were scumreading Dave and figured that's as good a place as any


Are you under the assumption that each group only has one scum? An ability could be scum controlled. And esp on N1 when we don't know what's going on. So you block a scum read and wait for the fallout. Dave coulda been scum with another group member and controlling a vig shot for all we knew. And don't say that's a dumb idea because I've co-modded with tripod. We did a game where two neighbors shared a vig shot and had to vote secretly to agree on it. They didn't know they were opposite scum team members.

Thanks for the answer. I’m interested in hearing Maria’s perspective as well.

[DeasVail]

DV who's starting to worry me because he's becoming erratic

What is worrying about that to you exactly?

You wanted no part of a wagon on someone that you couldn't even be bothered to claim was town. You looked at that wagon on an extremely scummy player (volxen), said you didn't have any reason not to lynch it, and then wouldn't put your vote where your mouth was. It makes me wonder why you'd avoid a wagon on someone you said you couldn't make a town case for. You can excuse not voting voxlen all you want by saying you thought a replacement would offer insight (how'd that work out) but I still maintain that if you're THAT sure a slot is scum, it won't offer insight. Ever. I've been making this stand for years. Hell, I've had people hand me the hammer on replacements I'm scumreading because they know I won't hesitate to save the mod the trouble.

You can say all you want that you'd been building to your vote on me for a while, but your posts don't indicate that either.

You think nom is scum, but you're not voting there either.

You've said you don't think I "care" about the game. Have you played with me since 2012?! I don't fucking pretend to have stronger opinions than I really have, dude. And if I have some apathy, have you considered I've already explained that this game is complete dogshit for me? Do I really need to go on another multi-paragraph rant about why I hate being alive in this shit?

Bottom line: You're playing it safe with your votes. You were confident enough in nom scum to counterwagon off volxen (who you didn't townread) and yet today you're trying to stay off a nom wagon.

So yeah, dude, I'd say your behavior is worrying.

I don’t think I have played with you since 2012.

And I never actually had a scumread on volxen. He’d made hardly any posts so it would make sense that I would want to wait for more info before lynching that slot.

My suspicion of you was to a large degree influenced by discussion with my team and I’m pretty sure I’ve indicated that.

I also think you’ve taken a vote to mean more than it actually does. I don’t need to be super confident in a nom scumread to vote nom Day 2. I haven’t had much confidence in any scumreads to be honest.

UNVOTE: Kuribo
VOTE: Nom

I’ve decided that this is where I want to go. I will have to talk with my team about the kuribo read because I do think he could be town while they were strongly scumreading him. Watch this space.

My team, however, is aligned on nom being scum and I think that they’re justification used to vote me is further evidence of that. I think that nom has been looking for an excuse to suspect me for a while and the reads contradiction thing is... super weak? There was not even that much change in my reads and I think it would be expected by town that reads would change. This feels like scum deciding that they want to be on my wagon or want to “suspect” me and have been searching for a reason to justify it. It does not feel like town considering a slot’s posts and forming a read based on that.

Gamma, you’ve said that no one is trying to convince anyone of nom being scum but I have pretty consistently throughout the game been talking about why nom is scum.

—

Dave, I’m interested in why you haven’t used our hood to try and form your read on me. I still think you’re probably town but I’d like to hear from you about it.

I also really do need justification from Maria/kuribo about why roleblocking an unknown hood’s ability is considered a good idea. Isn’t it most likely that this ability will be mostly town-controlled?

DV can you please explain your town read on kuribo and reconcile it with your team's scum read on kuribo? This would go a long way in making me think that you're not scum.

I wouldn't say that I townread kuribo like I did earlier in the game but I do get think there is a reasonable chance that he is being genuine, particularly in his responses to me. My team started out scumreading nom, then thought that kuribo was nom's scumbuddy, and then Klick became more sure on Kuribo being scum than nom. Their reads are also mostly just responses to parts of the game that they're reading (a lot of saying people are scumposting or obvscum without necessarily articulating why , but I understand because there are just so many posts!), but Cephrir didn't like Kuribo's arguments that Volxen should be lynched instead of trying to lynch scum. (I think they felt it was a likely town lurker lynch)

[DeasVail]

I skim over the last few pages and I see a lot of talk about LMS and neighbourhoods and I don't really get much of it. I feel like it's mostly overblown in terms of importance?

I just want to lynch nomnom and I think I'm going to stick by that. She's the person I've most consistently thought was scum throughout the game.

I saw mention of Maria liking nomnom because of consistency of play, but I feel like that's just as likely (if not more likely) to come from scum paying attention to what they're doing.
I don't like nom posting that she's "likely the night kill anyway" because I really don't think that's true and I doubt that nom does either.
And I don't like the fear being drummed into town by the thought of FB-SCUM ( :O ) having their LMS.

I want to lynch nom.

Please?

[DeasVail]

Cephrir didn't like Kuribo's arguments that Volxen should be lynched instead of trying to lynch scum. (I think they felt it was a likely town lurker lynch)

Cephrir obviously wasn't reading the damn game then because I never suggested volxen as a lurker lynch. It was a scum read of mine and it didn't flip town.

I don't think this is fair on Ceph.

[DeasVail]

Like don't try to frame it that I ever said "oh hey let's lynch a lurk instead of scum"

I did say "that slot is scum and no replacement into it can ever redeem it."


Those two sentiments are so far apart that they're not even the same continent

I'm not commenting on what you said, I'm commenting on what the perception in my hood was.

[DeasVail]

Apologies, I realised that what I posted implied that what you posted was that we shouldn't lynch scum. I meant that they felt it was a distraction from lynching scum.

[DeasVail]

I need to learn to read.

I don't believe in coincidences, this makes Maria look pretty bad.

How dare anyone not know on day 1 that Dave would claim on day 3 to be part of an investigative group


The nerve

I'm sure this is covered somewhere in the next few pages, but I'll answer anyway just in case.

Nom is suggesting that MariaR and one of Dave/DV are scum. The scum in the invest would would tell the scum in the RB hood to block the invest hood. I think A50 brought this up earlier.

It shouldn't be too hard to guess that the one who brought it up in the first place because they were outraged that the invest has been denied is town.
At least someone is paying attention.

I don’t understand this line of reasoning. Why does you bringing it up in public make you town?

[DeasVail]

DV Ank FB is looking like a promising pool. Let's discuss those.

One time I took a swim in the Nile
I swam the whole way, I didn't turn around, man, I swear

[DeasVail]

I’m actually pretty cool with wagons on both FB and nom? I don’t have townreads on either but my vote stays on nom because I find her more actively scummy than FB.

[DeasVail]

I kind of want them to be scum together but I’m not sure if that’s actually possible here. Maybe not.

[DeasVail]

I kind of want them to be scum together but I’m not sure if that’s actually possible here. Maybe not.

If they are not scum together, which one is town?

Firebringer

[DeasVail]

Also hi

If you want to chat about anything in semi-real time, let me know. As you’re aware, I’m working, but I haven’t been called for anything at the moment!

[DeasVail]

I have a sinking feeling that people are aware enough that nom is a good kill

but that they don't want to specifically because it's firebringer in the hood

and that's the single most dismaying thing I've read all game

If you switch the names around, that’s kind of where things are at for me.

[DeasVail]

extremely scummy post when FB flips scum.

Looking forward to it!

[DeasVail]

I kind of want them to be scum together but I’m not sure if that’s actually possible here. Maybe not.

If they are not scum together, which one is town?

Firebringer

Can you tell me how firebringer is town? I'm having trouble distinguishing anything from the trolling

I don’t have any reason to think Firebringer is town except that I really think nomnom is scum

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Firebringer

fuck it we're killing this

Awww

I can't believe I believed everything we had would last
So young and naive for me to think she was from your past
Silly of me to dream of one day havin' your kids
Love is so blind it feels right when it's wrong

[DeasVail]

HEY NOM have you considered that actually answering people's questions instead of ignoring them might help people actually read you better

and also that you ignoring questions and only talking about your scumreads and not your townreads when this is the 3rd time I've asked you about it is KIND OF GRATING.

yes you have mentioned your opinions on DV & FB recently so I've crossed that out but please give me your townreads at the moment.

DV Ank FB is looking like a promising pool. Let's discuss those.

yes let's and also answer what I asked you this morning please

Hey nomnom, what are your thoughts on DEB and DeasVail?

I wouldn't mind hearing some other more detailed thoughts from you too (if X is scum Y is a likely scumbuddy or who you think looks particularly town at the moment) but I gotta go now so I can't give you more specifics than that of what I think would be cool to hear from you atm.

I would lynch both of DV and FB, DV for reasons I've already said and FB because (as someone else mentioned or at least implied something similar to recently) GiF is a good player but his day 1 play was garrrrrrrrrrbaaaaaage

you are fine with DV getting lynched, why is that your opinion on him? also what are your thoughts on why you want FB dead

, and what are your thoughts on dave in general?

DO ITTT. LYNCH NOMNommmmm

[DeasVail]

HEY NOM have you considered that actually answering people's questions instead of ignoring them might help people actually read you better

and also that you ignoring questions and only talking about your scumreads and not your townreads when this is the 3rd time I've asked you about it is KIND OF GRATING.

yes you have mentioned your opinions on DV & FB recently so I've crossed that out but please give me your townreads at the moment.

DV Ank FB is looking like a promising pool. Let's discuss those.

yes let's and also answer what I asked you this morning please

Hey nomnom, what are your thoughts on DEB and DeasVail?

I wouldn't mind hearing some other more detailed thoughts from you too (if X is scum Y is a likely scumbuddy or who you think looks particularly town at the moment) but I gotta go now so I can't give you more specifics than that of what I think would be cool to hear from you atm.

I would lynch both of DV and FB, DV for reasons I've already said and FB because (as someone else mentioned or at least implied something similar to recently) GiF is a good player but his day 1 play was garrrrrrrrrrbaaaaaage

you are fine with DV getting lynched, why is that your opinion on him? also what are your thoughts on why you want FB dead

, and what are your thoughts on dave in general?

DO ITTT. LYNCH NOMNommmmm

Hey bud what's going on over there?

I’m the dragon breathing fire
Beautiful mane, I’m the lion

[DeasVail]

Imagine being obv town unironically

Also DV for serious the fuck are you doing? You're usually better than this.

I don’t really understand.

I’m having fun with the game and my role, sure. But I have a scumread on nom, I’ve explained reasons for my scumread. And I am pushing it.

What more do you expect from me?

[DeasVail]

@kuribo: I am starting to feel apathetic about this game (and the whole tournament. tbh), so I', willing to make you a deal. How about you use ME to vote whomever you want? I am your proxy vote today.

I feel that, though Xtoxm came through with some reads I'm about to share.

My problem is typical of me as town in that I have too many scum reads. I can't focus and I feel isolated out here and doubly so in Team Mafia.

DV/DEB/Ank/FB. Dealer's choice. The latter two are annoyance lynches, but if the idea is that there's scum in Dave/Ank/chenn, I don't think it's Chenn. FB just annoys me and is in a bad slot, I probably wouldn't vote that right now because i don't scumread it as much tbh. DV's responses to the wagon against him have been bad and the same applies to DEB. I don't want DEB in endgame. I've explained to DV why I've cooled on him, and I haven't liked his responses.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why nom is scum. But since I have no vote, no one will bother.

What were my responses to the wagon against me? I wasn’t even aware that there was a wagon.

[DeasVail]

Whose sympathy is nom trying to get?
Because those posts are shit at getting sympathy

I felt momentary sympathy

[DeasVail]

I don’t count!??? Rude!

[DeasVail]

I want to lynch nom

[DeasVail]

What were my responses to the wagon against me? I wasn’t even aware that there was a wagon.

That's fair, wagon is way too strong a word for what's essentially a voteless man pushing back against a guy who has a baseless read on him.


Now let me tell you something you might not know since you haven't played with me in so long:

Do you know one of my super secret scum hunting methods? Sit close because I very rarely reveal this one:


I wait for them to accuse me. Oh, you might say that's OMGUS, but Lemme tell you, I've caught dozens of scum for using the same soft-accusation techniques you're using. I've strung up entire teams because they tried to throw subtle shade on me. It's then that I step back, I pay closer attention. I watch every movement, watch for the slightest manipulation. Things I wouldn't notice if they hadn't tried to call me out.


It's the mislynches, you see. I haven't been mislynched in EIGHT YEARS. Scum teams just can't help trying to make a name for themselves. Make the game fun because they know I'm hard to lynch. GreyICE and curiouskarmadog are the only people in my twelve years here to get me lynched as town. Scum don't like to NK me if they can help it because y'all know I tend to derail games by arguing with idiots. My fury leaves towns decimated with the scorch and ruin of the other town players that cross me. And as long as that anger stays directed at town, y'all keep me alive.

But you can't do that forever, you need to line up an endgame, don't you? So you have to throw shade here and there, say things like "oh it's fake rage" or "oh my team thinks he's scum." Maybe by endgame someone will be sick of me and vote with you, and you won't have to NK me. Maybe you can save it for some PR with a good claim.

But that's not going to happen. You're not going to get me mislynched. NOBODY fucking gets me mislynched. Eight years since scum has successfully pushed wagon on me. There will be no glory for you or your scumteam this day, DV.

This is a pattern I've seen more times than I can count in my years on this site. I wanted you to be town! I offered you brotherhood and you slapped it away to try and taste the impossible. For that, DV, I will gladly hang your head on my mantle of fallen scum.

This is lovely and all but I’m town.

Is everyone who ends up expressing suspicion of you scum?

[DeasVail]

I'd prefer a lynch in DV/dave over one in nom/FB for now.

Why?

[DeasVail]

We should complete the mass claim before we end the day.

yes complete the massclaim before ending

Correct me if I'm wrong, but here is the information we still need:
- LMS of the Composers (Dave/DV)
- Flavour name of Gamma/DEB's
- LMS of Gamma/DEB
- Flavour name of kuribo/MariaR/Panth
- LMS of kuribo/MariaR/Panth

Our LMS is JOAT with tracker/watcher/commute

[DeasVail]

I'd prefer a lynch in DV/dave over one in nom/FB for now.

Why?

What were my responses to the wagon against me? I wasn’t even aware that there was a wagon.

That's fair, wagon is way too strong a word for what's essentially a voteless man pushing back against a guy who has a baseless read on him.


Now let me tell you something you might not know since you haven't played with me in so long:

Do you know one of my super secret scum hunting methods? Sit close because I very rarely reveal this one:


I wait for them to accuse me. Oh, you might say that's OMGUS, but Lemme tell you, I've caught dozens of scum for using the same soft-accusation techniques you're using. I've strung up entire teams because they tried to throw subtle shade on me. It's then that I step back, I pay closer attention. I watch every movement, watch for the slightest manipulation. Things I wouldn't notice if they hadn't tried to call me out.


It's the mislynches, you see. I haven't been mislynched in EIGHT YEARS. Scum teams just can't help trying to make a name for themselves. Make the game fun because they know I'm hard to lynch. GreyICE and curiouskarmadog are the only people in my twelve years here to get me lynched as town. Scum don't like to NK me if they can help it because y'all know I tend to derail games by arguing with idiots. My fury leaves towns decimated with the scorch and ruin of the other town players that cross me. And as long as that anger stays directed at town, y'all keep me alive.

But you can't do that forever, you need to line up an endgame, don't you? So you have to throw shade here and there, say things like "oh it's fake rage" or "oh my team thinks he's scum." Maybe by endgame someone will be sick of me and vote with you, and you won't have to NK me. Maybe you can save it for some PR with a good claim.

But that's not going to happen. You're not going to get me mislynched. NOBODY fucking gets me mislynched. Eight years since scum has successfully pushed wagon on me. There will be no glory for you or your scumteam this day, DV.

This is a pattern I've seen more times than I can count in my years on this site. I wanted you to be town! I offered you brotherhood and you slapped it away to try and taste the impossible. For that, DV, I will gladly hang your head on my mantle of fallen scum.

This is lovely and all but I’m town.

Is everyone who ends up expressing suspicion of you scum?

Of course not. Do you have any more of my statements you'd like to try and misrepresent? That's at least twice now that I've had to call you out on that.

I wasn’t misrepresenting you. I was asking a question about your super secret scumhunting method. It sounded highly prone to error and I still don’t really understand it

[DeasVail]

My vote feels ok

Not wonderful, but it's ok

Feel better,

with a vote for Nomnomnom

[DeasVail]

I'd prefer a lynch in DV/dave over one in nom/FB for now.

Why?

What were my responses to the wagon against me? I wasn’t even aware that there was a wagon.

That's fair, wagon is way too strong a word for what's essentially a voteless man pushing back against a guy who has a baseless read on him.


Now let me tell you something you might not know since you haven't played with me in so long:

Do you know one of my super secret scum hunting methods? Sit close because I very rarely reveal this one:


I wait for them to accuse me. Oh, you might say that's OMGUS, but Lemme tell you, I've caught dozens of scum for using the same soft-accusation techniques you're using. I've strung up entire teams because they tried to throw subtle shade on me. It's then that I step back, I pay closer attention. I watch every movement, watch for the slightest manipulation. Things I wouldn't notice if they hadn't tried to call me out.


It's the mislynches, you see. I haven't been mislynched in EIGHT YEARS. Scum teams just can't help trying to make a name for themselves. Make the game fun because they know I'm hard to lynch. GreyICE and curiouskarmadog are the only people in my twelve years here to get me lynched as town. Scum don't like to NK me if they can help it because y'all know I tend to derail games by arguing with idiots. My fury leaves towns decimated with the scorch and ruin of the other town players that cross me. And as long as that anger stays directed at town, y'all keep me alive.

But you can't do that forever, you need to line up an endgame, don't you? So you have to throw shade here and there, say things like "oh it's fake rage" or "oh my team thinks he's scum." Maybe by endgame someone will be sick of me and vote with you, and you won't have to NK me. Maybe you can save it for some PR with a good claim.

But that's not going to happen. You're not going to get me mislynched. NOBODY fucking gets me mislynched. Eight years since scum has successfully pushed wagon on me. There will be no glory for you or your scumteam this day, DV.

This is a pattern I've seen more times than I can count in my years on this site. I wanted you to be town! I offered you brotherhood and you slapped it away to try and taste the impossible. For that, DV, I will gladly hang your head on my mantle of fallen scum.

This is lovely and all but I’m town.

Is everyone who ends up expressing suspicion of you scum?

Of course not. Do you have any more of my statements you'd like to try and misrepresent? That's at least twice now that I've had to call you out on that.

I wasn’t misrepresenting you. I was asking a question about your super secret scumhunting method. It sounded highly prone to error and I still don’t really understand it

Further to this, I don’t even really think you’re scum. But your post makes it sound like you were offended that I had the audacity to think you might be scum when you were generously townreading me. And I’m confused because that would imply that anything other than me townreading you would cause you to think I’m scum.

[DeasVail]

I guess I'm consolidating on DV VOTE: DV

I thought you thought I was scum, yet your vote on me seems so reluctant?

[DeasVail]

Ank, which townreads of mine do you disagree with?

[DeasVail]

Davesaz, almost50

I think Davesaz is town because of how he reacted to our action being blocked both times. I was the one that suggested in our hood that we should target chennisden again N2 to see what happens and I think everything that followed that seems to indicated that he genuinely suspected me of just playing him. For e.g. the public post asking why the target failed, the subsequent scumread of me. He just seems authentically bitter about it, as if he really thought I was scum and had gotten us to target chennisden when I was planning on arranging for our hood to be blocked the whole time.

In regards to Almost50, I struggle to see how he could make up the stuff he's saying in his posts! For example, the post of mine that Gamma recently quoted that was a response to A50. That post seems like the kind of importance town would place upon their own opinion and the sheer IMPACT of their reads. I think scum would struggle to fake that, and why even would they? It's more likely to just make people annoyed with you.

[DeasVail]

I still want to lynch nom

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: nomnomnom

I need to check some things

Is there anything in particular that is causing you doubt?

[DeasVail]

I need to double check a lot of things before I can answer that for certain

Fair. I will be quite interested in what those things end up being

[DeasVail]

My initial read on nom wasn't bias, the switch to a scumread was bias since she had a different opinion of what Volpe was doing than I did.

her having virtually the same mindset when approaching my slot when I'm townreading her vs scumreading her is town indicative
her starting the game by provoking me into an aggressive engagement with her is town indicative
in general, my main issue with her this game has been how absurdly aggressive she's been approaching everybody this game and in the end, I think she's far more likely to just fall apart by now as scum rather than just progressively get more annoyed, upset, and frustrated

PLUS

I don't think I was wrong that there was mostly TvT engagements early on in the game
I don't think I was wrong that the Gif+Volpe vs nom neighborhood """""""fight""""""" looked worse on GIF than anybody else, at the very least that whatever the fuck people were up nom's ass for wasn't actually as AI as people were assuming

nom's playstyle is chaos and I've even pointed out in this thread before that she gets scumread really easily because of that, I think that's ultimately the cause of the metric fuckton of scumreads she's gotten all game and that's really the beginning and end of it

I disagree that this is reason to think nom is town, generally. I would agree that if someone were scumreading nom for causing chaos, then that would not be an appropriate reason to scumread nom (I consider it NAI), but I think that your post still doesn’t account for many things I find concerning about nom, such as her faked confidence in FB being scum, and the impression that her reads are determined based on what she wants her reads to be, rather than actually reading people and deciding from there (e.g. her approach to my slot, kind of scumreading me and then when it’s convenient to do so, CONCLUDING I’m scum because my reads changed).
I disagree with the notion that nom would “fall apart” if she were scum. I don’t think that’s giving nom’s scumgame proper credit. Getting more upset etc is easily what scum would think town would do.

PEdit: Espresso, which reads do you find to be hedgy?

[DeasVail]

Idk I’ve been pretty clear recently about thinking A50 is town?

[DeasVail]

Idk I’ve been pretty clear recently about thinking A50 is town?

You were back and forth on him all the way until the mid-late 3000s, at which point you listed him as the lowest of your townreads (so townlean?).

Did you actually read my ISO or was it more of a skim/general impression?

[DeasVail]

Thanks for answering, that makes sense.

For what it’s worth the ordering on my reads lists don’t matter unless I say otherwise. Usually it’s according to where they appear on the player list or when I think of them.

[DeasVail]

the current scumlist I'm working on is:

Almost50
DeasVail
EspressoPatronum
Flavor Leaf

I don't necessary think that every other slot is town (annoyingly this game is still hard enough to parse that the things I've looked for leads from has only gotten me ONE OTHER townread I can be confident on) but those four slots are the ones standing out to me the most at this point.

So essentially you think our entire town core is scum (I’ve come around on EP, and don’t really see a point of their play at all if they’re scum) + DV.

Why are you thinking there’s 4 scum?

My team and I are also confused by Ank's scum list.

Gobble says it could be scum!Ank bussing DV.

That’s what I was thinking.

That would explain why DV wagon is a big thing, but not picking up.

I don’t understand this. You have been one of the people subtly mentioning I could be scum without voting in my direction. You are a part of my wagon being ‘a big thing, but not picking up’
Are you bussing me too?

[DeasVail]

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

EC is on board with a50/FL/EP as scum
Dann thinks EP has the highest odds of flipping scum of the four

I will reevaluate my read on EP tonight.

[DeasVail]

I love the spicy posts and all, but I really do feel we’re allowing ourselves to get distracted from the most flavoursome of all lunches.

NOMNOMNOMNOMNOM

[DeasVail]

I think there's a chance that DEB sheeping people that he considers better at solving can come from a town mindset considering there's meta according to FL so
VOTE: Panth
I think Panth approached my slot in bad faith and is accusing me of not solving when he hasn't provided meaningful input either, and that "eat the rope like a helpful VT" comment is just something else.
I think him or DV are good lynches today.

I don't think any of those things are reasons why panth is more likely scum.

[DeasVail]

I appreciate you ank

[DeasVail]

Panth accusing you of not solving when he hasn't provided meaningful input either:
- I think town are, if anything, are less likely to have insight into how they are playing and are more likely to by hypocritical in that sort of way. I think scum will more often check to make sure that their own arguments don't also apply to them. I also don't understand why that kind of hypocrisy is more likely to come from scum.
- "eat the rope like a helpful VT" - why would scum say this? why is it more likely to come from scum than town?

[DeasVail]

dv has ceph mentioned anything about the game yet

He thought nom and kuribo were scum for the part of the game that he followed. Approx. page 100 to partway into Day 3.

[DeasVail]

Did anything important happen in that burst of posts earlier?

[DeasVail]

I'd just read it deas

Ok fine.

Fair point. I didn’t have much time last night but I’ll catch up throughout today.
From a skim of recent posts and previous impressions, I’m still struggling to gain confidence in EP being scum. He’s in that area of my reads where I wouldn’t be shocked if he flipped scum but I’m just not convinced by the scumreads on him.

I’m still going to advocate for a nom lynch.

[DeasVail]

There will be limited engagement from me until tonight, but in response to this.

@Deas- aside from nom being scum what is your MOST IMPORTANT OPINION about your reads/the game I should know?

I think Dave is town.
I think panth is town.
I think Maria is likely town.

Therefore I think the fixation on a scum team across our hoods is very much barking up the wrong tree.

[DeasVail]

No, I'm saying Dave, the person we blocked. Or someone from the hood could've been like 'hey don't block us' and that would've stopped the n2 block that I once again didn't suggest. They didn't say anything so in my mind that was a safe block. I know in my mind if I was an invest hood and we got blocked I'd out that right away. Now that your point has been disproven you're going down yet another path? Alright.

Maria this is weird.

Why would we out that our action didn't go through? We had little way of knowing whether it was a block or something to do with chennisden or something else. And there was already enough pointless outing of hood stuff.

I don't really understand this given your opposition to people talking about hoods Day 2.

[DeasVail]

eh never mind I see that's been covered to death

[DeasVail]

VOTE: DeasVail

Idk this game is a huge jumble in my head at this point

I don't have the willpower to sort it all out atm

Lynching me is not the answer you seek.

I'd also personally rather not die y'know

[DeasVail]

something something nomnomnomnmonomnoonmoonnmomnonnmo

Yes! How did you know?

[DeasVail]

There will be limited engagement from me until tonight, but in response to this.

@Deas- aside from nom being scum what is your MOST IMPORTANT OPINION about your reads/the game I should know?

I think Dave is town.
I think panth is town.
I think Maria is likely town.

Therefore I think the fixation on a scum team across our hoods is very much barking up the wrong tree.

why panth?

Also I'm probably going to vote you by the end of the day unless a nom wagon is a real thing that can happen so

If you have more to say about that or any other scumreads you wanna share that'd be nice too

It’s a combination of my vex Vience townread, Maria’s strong townread on the slot, and panth is right that I know him well and I really don’t think he’s scum.

[DeasVail]

I would also like to point out that nom who was very convinced earlier that we needed to lynch FB has know seemed to somehow lose interest in that.

And besides, who would lynch Beyoncé in a gay-themed mafia game? Monsters

[DeasVail]

D

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DV I figured out why nomnom might be less enthusiastic about killing firebringer

<3

[DeasVail]

This is a dumb vote

eh

it might be

but Deas should know this isn't a game where you can literally only have one scumread for two full game days and expect to take no flak from it

and nom ain't happening in the 27 hours we have left

so whaaaaat are you going to do about it

I don’t think it’s helpful to blame me for your incorrect read of me.

[DeasVail]

And actually know that I’m on it, if I should know that and I am scum, why aren’t I creating pretend scumreads? (Which I can very easily do)

I mean, I’ve indicated a pool that I think the scum are likely within, I feel passionate about non hmmmm being scum, and that has been looking like a potential option for a significant portion of the day.

I don’t actually get what you’re trying to say.

It’s like you’re making an argument for me being underwhelming town

[DeasVail]

I’m not going to pretend to be confident in someone other than nom being scum when I’m not. Why would I do that?

[DeasVail]

I would consider voting any of FL, DEB, and mayybe FB as an alternative to my own lynch btw

[DeasVail]

I think as with much of this game, there is a lot of not-so-helpful filler.

I was happy with the growing suspicion on nom and the wagon on her. I still don't really know why it fell apart. People seemed to be into it and then get cold feet? I don't know.
I think that the hysteria surrounding neighbourhood actions was kind of overblown, but I think dave's suspicion of me seems town-driven.
Skimming over various parts of the day I think I'm back to being suspicious of kuribo and if I'm lynched I think it would be unwise to give him a free pass.
The reason I'd be okay with an FL lynch is that there's a lot of posts and a lot of talking but I don't get the impression from his posts that he actually cares what happens. Nothing specific, just a general impression.

I think it was ridiculous that panth became someone that people suspected with MariaR strongly vouching for the slot being town and there being very little in the way of explanation for why the things that made people upset with panth actually would come from scum.

More specifically on my wagon.
Dave is town and I understand why he would think I'm scum.
I think A50 and I are just on a totally different wavelength when it comes to everything so I don't understand what he's doing but I struggle to see the slot as scum. Related, when going over things I think that kuribo used my suspicion of him as a convenient excuse to go from a townread to a scumread of me. I just don't feel it. That could be affected by him not having his mind in the game recently though, so I'm hesitant to act on that immediately.

Despite earlier concerns, Ank is someone who I had a growing townread of. She seems genuinely bogged down by the various frustrations of the game and voting me makes sense coming from that place. I think that she is wrong about nom.

I think that nom's approach to my slot comes from scum. She's always had me as a scumread, but her reasons for thinking I'm scum have never justified the enduring and unquestioning nature of her scumread.

EP is still a big question mark for me. His approach to reads and the game generally have been weird to me in an out-of-left-field way that I think is strange to come from scum, but possible. That's why he's not an explicit townread for me but I don't really want to lynch him.

Most likely to be scum imo are nomnom, Flavor Leaf (combination of PoE and just a general impression). With DEB and Kuribo as alternative options. EP as a maybe.

If I'm wrong about nom, then FB is a strong contender for scum. MariaR has an outside chance of being scum imo. I could also just be totally wrong on A50 because I don't feel confident in reading his sort of play but I'm holding to my townread.

I think that dave, chenn, gamma, Ank, panth are all town and it would be difficult to convince me otherwise.

[DeasVail]

Thanks for not voting me yet chenn!

[DeasVail]

I was here, I lived, I loved, I was here
I did, I've done, everything that I wanted
And it was more than I thought it would be
I will leave my mark, soul, everyone will know, I was here

When things seem hopeless, remember that you're all great <3

[DeasVail]

I still think it would be weird for dave to be scum but don't rule it out I guess.

[DeasVail]

I think FL is pretending to be convinced I was scum when that doesn't even make any sense based on what his read of me was.

[DeasVail]

I'll ask the town to please lynch FL or nom next.

[DeasVail]

Hang in there panth. I have faith in you to help turn this game around

[DeasVail]

Seriously, you can do it.

[DeasVail]

Hopefully you’re not scum that would be embarrassing

But well done if so

[DeasVail]

I wish I was scum. I keep joining games as a favor and getting stuck in as town.

MS has changed man. Everything is about jacking off your ego and trying to single handedly solve the game instead of collaborating and communicating.

It sucks that I got lynched but it might be what the game needed. Who knows? Tomorrow is another day