BooneyToonz XIII: To Boon or Not To Boon - [END]

[Chara]

i roll out of bed to see 13 pages and that Almost has replaced into hydra under his AP persona.

god help me.

hello everyone!

[Chara]

i'm also in the camp of there being no way Boon formatted scum and town PMs differently. it just doesn't make sense.

inconsistent formatting isn't a new thing for Boon. ;> it came up in the last game too.

and hello Dredd! i don't believe we've met as far as my memory goes, but correct me if i'm wrong.

[Chara]

If I were scum all I'd have to do is scream PLAY THE GAME and I'd garner a lot of easy townreads

As town right now I'm finding it hard to garner reads so now it's harder to distinguish my alignment because I can't get good reads, etc.

Do you see the issue here?

Chen

i like this post! it's not AI but i still like it.

pedit: i would hope RCE isn't at L-1.

[Chara]

Over 20% of all posts in this game are from A50.

Save me.

this made me check your ISO, and 100% of your posts are fluff.
keep up the good work.

[Chara]

there are too many pages to check, but you're being facetious, right?

[Chara]

VOTE: Chara

The very post you quoted isn't fluff any more than Chenn bitching is.

@Chenn, if we go strictly optimal random votes are better.

hahaha. it's been a while, Titus. do you have something against giving Aaron a little push to content-post?

[Chara]

i'm also in the camp of there being no way Boon formatted scum and town PMs differently. it just doesn't make sense.

inconsistent formatting isn't a new thing for Boon. ;> it came up in the last game too.

and hello Dredd! i don't believe we've met as far as my memory goes, but correct me if i'm wrong.

They're all A50 alts

that would explain it. but he has such nice things to say...

[Chara]

Oh whaddya know, more fuckholes protecting you?

this fuckhole doesn't really appreciate that when i've done nothing to block you from doing anything, Titus.

[Chara]

Her sudden vote on you is suspicious af.

the timing isn't great, no. but i'm not really in a hurry to get into a fight with Titus on day 1, especially in a large.

pedit: this game has a lot more players i know than i thought.

[Chara]

while i appreciate the fix, both of those are actually not right. they/them is fine. :>

[Chara]

Then post your reads based in reality.

i've given zero reads so far, but when i do i'll be sure to.

did i do something to piss you off? i've merely given an opinion. and on a meta level, i disagree with asking about PM formatting because i find it slightly outside the spirit of the game, never mind that it could cause the target to accidentally get themself modkilled.

i really think this point should be let go.

as for the Aaron thing, you haven't answered my rebuttal. i find poking contentless slots to be a good idea. if you really believe that post about Almost was AI, i have to say we have different definitions of fluffing. i read it as ribbing/lighthearted complaining at best, not any statement about Almost's alignment.

[Chara]

i consider it to be fluff, still, because of the tone of the post. it also happened to be a lighthearted joke using percentages to complement Aaron's post. i understand your interpretation, though i don't share it.

i've only read the pages i've started posting on, so not yet. regarding the pages i have read: Latias and Latios are so far my least favourite (as in lower than null), and you and Nancy are both towntelling.

[Chara]

FFS! Is everybody adopting the "I said it but didn't claim it" principle first brought to life by Flavor Lead?? U bloody asked for confirmation and you (or your hydra p) confirmed. What do I need to ask for next when I want to know if a claim is serious?

to be fair, they answered yes when you asked if it was serious or a meme. they did not say which one it was.

[Chara]

I think 50 is most likely town, and if so I think I have a reliable scumtell lined up for him.

I think A50 has an enjoyment tell. Which may not be alignment indicative as much as role indicative. That said I think he has more fun rolling town with power than scum with power.

how astute of you, RCE.

131: this post being unsigned is what comedy is, i think. i'm not very good at comedy.

town Titus being cranky i can attest to. it's one of the towntells i mentioned but not the only reason.

Dredd: ask Almost what he thinks now that i've posted some. and don't listen to anything AP says about me.

304: makes me hope RCE is town because i'm townreading him for it. if i'm lucky, it just means i've learned something from our last game together (where i scumread him until he was proven town).

[Chara]

I -in fact- wanted to be engaged so hard that it hit me that if I made this hydra I'd be able to respond to almost everything. If A50 normally wouldn't respond to it then JJD may, and if both will ignore it AP will certainly find something to say about it. If a post was too long to read then one (AP most likely) will try to dissect it into pieces, skew the wording and still find something -sexually suggestive- to comment on!

So, again: How am I not ducking reading??

i am in awe of you.

[Chara]

RCE and Fish's reaction looks like in jokes and references to me. i am actually taking RCE's read on Fish into account here as well, i feel he deserves it.

VOTE: Latias and Latios
this and Romeo and Juliet are my least favourites.

pedit: it indicates you're in a good mood! which is nice. since you mentioned waiting for me a couple of times, any thoughts?

[Chara]

The response is to encourage him to get involved. Attacking encourages him to shut down as either alignment, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

hold on, i was being encouraging. Aaron even responded positively.

[Chara]

Why does scum!Gamma tr Titus based on tone? Especially since you tr Titus?

TRing Titus isn't a bad take to have. that i don't feel they were invested in the events of the game is the reason for the vote. throwing a read out there feels token.

[Chara]

this and Romeo and Juliet are my least favourites.

But I am actively trying to solve this game, mate!
I am reaction testing.

i can't deny you're being active and participating, my friend.

pedit: davesaz gets a town point!

[Chara]

Can you rephrase this?

alright.

TRing you isn't a bad opinion, it's one i agree with and not the reason for my vote.

the reason is the Eon hydra (that's Latias and Latios but easier to type) giving me the impression they posted that read as a way to participate in the discussion. but it didn't give me the feeling they genuinely cared about how it was going, if that makes more sense.

[Chara]

Chara I think you're trying to pocket me and I'm going to let it happen semi reluctantly.

i'll take it.

Almost: i'll also take that.

[Chara]

i haven’t been that engaged in the game so it was sort of an attempt to latch onto something to get into the game

anything to get you biting into this game more excitedly?

[Chara]

i was asking for something that could bring you into the game. if my read is just you being apathetic and not scum then it's not especially worthwhile til you're invested.

[Chara]

last post is to Eon hydra.

and dave, i'm basically in a hydra, except we have different account and two alignments and don't know the alignments of the other half.

[Chara]

v/la while my provider fixes our intermittent wifi issues. i still have some access so i'll be here this evening and going forward.

see a lot of mech talk on this page so i'll have to reply to meatier things later. but i believe i understand what Almost is claiming here after reading it a few times, including the correction from loyal to disloyal.

for now i believe the claim. it makes his behaviour and excitement make sense.

[Chara]

I see this flip flopping type of thing from Drew as town.

does he do it less as scum?
UNVOTE:

alright trusting Almost with other players making the same conclusions. and Eon hydra's reply was alright.

[Chara]

I would't be so sure with RCE being town, mate.
His wagon stopped after some time. This gives him scum points.

i was under the impression it was built off an RVS-esque base.

[Chara]

Yeah, I don’t know why Titus is voting Amrun. She’s a total null for me still.

i don't know if it's wise to locktown early so i won't, but i'm noting this anyways for later when i inevitably ISO myself to try and remember what good reasons for townreading Titus are.
(not the Amrun vote specifically, but what Titus has been doing earlygame.)

pedit: hm, i'll take that as secondhand meta in that case. i'm assuming Drew isn't an alt and did just start in July. didn't like his Bambi vote but i could see it as a believable reaction to Bambi asserting he's being towny (an idea i agree with).

when you say flip flop, what do you mean by that in this game? forgive me if it seems like an obvious question.

[Chara]

VOTE: Romeo and Juliet
both heads pinging is a good indicator for me. and out of game i would appreciate Chen signing more consistently, but i have an alright handle on the difference.

caveat: which head said they signed up for this game to meme?

naptime.

[Chara]

Nancy I'm amazed you're holding me accountable to a game I explicitly signed up to troll/screw around in

this one. i'm assuming it's Chen but confirmation would help.

[Chara]

Chara – I used to think CHara was a top game solver but this isn’t hitting right. I think it’s scum here. Trying to look busy.

i'm pretty curious what game of mine has given you this idea that i'm a top solver. not saying i'm terrible, but as far as our last game together went i was really off my game.

i wouldn't lynch Joan after that claim either, which is fine because i don't think she's the best day 1 lynch anyways.

[Chara]

Honestly I believe Dave re: the joke list. Now I'm a bit more suspect of Chara for giving Dave's comment a +1.

i gave him a townpoint for calling out the post of a slot i was scumreading at the time. i knew the list was a joke.

[Chara]

I aggressively have a lack of a read on Haggle that makes me feel they're scum

That mildly towny feel, except there's something wrong with it and they aren't town

this is how i've been reading you, actually! we can talk about it, though i doubt you're in any threat of being lynched by me right now regardless of your alignment.

i found Espresso's long post to be extremely towny, but considering you called that tr controversial i'm assuming Espresso was catching some heat before.
and yes, i am catching up backwards. no one can stop me.

[Chara]

this isn't a readlist. just getting my bearings. as an aside while writing this, i have to admire Fish's commitment to his random and slightly pointless question about how dave might treat me as his scumpartner. and dave's equal commitment to it. i enjoy this.

Almost: who's the player in this game you're paying the most attention to right now? besides AP and Dredd. :>
Loser: another friend of Boon's? (assuming my memory telling me that Espresso is a Boon friend is correct. also will probably be replaced but i enjoy new players so i hope not!)
Haggle: trying to get over the instinctive dislike from the scumread on me. that said, no

actual

problems here, though the angles from BP seem sort of surface level. feels like playstyle rather than AI.
Joan: the Overkill parallels are very present. if town i think her reactions to wagoning have matured, but i can't read her. think she'll be solved by her claim somehow.
Eon hydra: probably town, i hope Gamma's absence is temporary. Chemist's tone is good, i don't see an agenda.
Fish: a town Fish i think. trusting RCE.
Espresso: can you tell me about your approach to scumhunting? what you try to do or what you think you'll end up doing? your refusal to sheep a townread stood out to me. (i don't find that a bad thing.)
Amrun: i like what she's doing, don't really have a comment.
Bambi: i won't know what you're up to until you really care about something. but, town. do you have a read on Romeo and Juliet, Bambi?
Frost: what changed your Titus read to a TR?
RCE: started regretting making this list around here. hi RCE.
Venus and Mars: love you two, but 330 posts is a lot when so many are quotes and fluff. good takes.
Nips: nice to see you again. will get back to this once you've done a thing. in the meantime, is there a fellow lurker you're willing to fistfight?
Frank: pocketed me in game and out of game, catchup 50 pages when you return challenge.
Drew: i don't know, Amrun convinced me about this being towny behaviour, and i like Amrun. seems like a genuine guy. why's Bambi scummy, Drew?
Karnage: Gérard Surugue.
Romeo and Juliet: i enjoy their presence in this game. they give me the bad feelings i often experience with scum who don't tend to be obviously scummy. they explained that feeling very well in reference to Haggle, which makes me wonder if we're similar after all. unwilling to abandon the vote for such a reason, until we're online at the same time and can really hash things out.
Titus: hi Titus! Amrun being a big scumread for her is interesting but ultimately not a bad thing from my perspective. my most confident TR.
chkflip: i need to pay more attention to what he's trying to get across, because i trust the miller claim so completely and have gotten lazy. you're very persuasive, chk. probably the player i'm most likely to sheep should i really hit rock bottom this game.
davesaz: as usual, i enjoy you, and find most everything you've post rings highly truthful. unfortunately, you're a brick wall when it comes to my methods of reading players. if you read this list, which player do you think i most need to dive into?

[Chara]

Joan: i don't think it's too late to keep evolving your play. but are you already resigned to being lynched this game? i think your claim has prevented that for a bit.

Fish: i won't lie, that answer made me happy. i'll try and do better.

[Chara]

the game's still young.
are there any players you're townreading?

[Chara]

well, i'm sick in bed but in a great mood. for however long that lasts, if someone would like to jam with me for a while please raise your hand. Titus maybe?
i could talk about Haggle. i called that hydra's posting surface level but didn't go further than attributing it to playstyle.
i actually think i was being unfair, there. calling out obvious contradictions is nowhere near the only thing the slot's done, and it's not like that's a bad thing. i couldn't find why Titus was scumreading them.

pedit: i would rather Joan did not answer that. i don't think we need a more specific answer about conditions given the doctor claim.

[Chara]

i'm tempted to go through Haggle's posting and look for easy contradictions, but i'd rather limit myself to the specific things you're seeing, Titus. if you could quote/give post numbers.

off the top of my head, it was going after dave for disliking a post labeled as a joke which, as scum, dave should still know is a joke. the explanation that scum may be less able to see jokes for what they are was fine with me, and they did back off after dave made clear he didn't see it as a joke post in spite of that.

and i pretty much agree with you on Joan. i find her behaviour here closer to my town experience than the scum experience.

[Chara]

@Chara, if you recall LNT, I posted plenty of fluff in that game and what exactly is your issue with quotes?

the fluff/quote comment doesn't have anything to do with your alignment. i brought it up because you have a massive amount of posts this game, and in recent pages a lot of them have seemed to be large quotes/fluff. it makes it difficult to both ISO you and to read the game, so i was asking if you could curb that a little for ease of play.
you're not the only player doing it of course. just a request from me.

[Chara]

Also, he's a claimed miller. I kinda agree something with chkflip feels off but I think he just really wants a lynch at all costs and thinks it will likely be on town anyway.

it's fine if it's on town. day 1 scum lynches lose games. :> (sometimes)

and to explain that in a way that's more understandable: purposely lynching town also doesn't get anywhere. ideal day 1 is trying one's best to lynch scum but fucking up and hitting town. the eternal contradiction.

Venus: conditional isn't Joan's actual modifier. she just means her role has a condition that she isn't claiming. such as an even-night vigilante being a conditional vigilante.

[Chara]

The reason why I can't really SR that slot rn is due to the % list thing that the one head did. Iirc he said he is going to stop updating it but the idea behind it seems like a genuine method of sorting. Does scum!haggle put that much effort into something?

i don't know if giving +1 or -1 to actions in a vaccuum is even a good method of sorting. Titus mentioned looking for motivations behind actions and overall angle, which i find a better idea. i used to try to do that list approach very early on and found little success. are scum players who make the highest number of "scummy actions"?

and while i don't find the behaviour AI by itself, i would say it takes as much effort as any other post-by-post method. effort is also not indicative of alignment for me.

pedit: i'm upset at how long this took me to answer when Titus said the same thing with "IIoA." how do i recover from this?

[Chara]

davesaz: getting your own questions answered counts as commitment. i have a bad habit of forgetting my own questions (which is why i ISO myself so often).

i also don't find early readlists very useful, which is why that wasn't one. making it just forced me to catch up, which was the actual purpose. but i look forward to your answer once you get back to it.

Haggle: i don't consider playing against the common grain to be difficult, necessarily. why don't you think you're good at this game? also, i answered your comment about my giving davesaz a plus one, interested in your view on me there.

[Chara]

Why aren’t you saying this to A50? re: fluff?

i have a different relationship with Almost. i know enough that asking "hello Almost, could you cool it a little" would be fairly pointless, while i've played games with you that definitely had less of it. i don't have a problem with quotes, though i personally like to cut them up or reduce their size when possible.

it's not the biggest deal, i only wanted to get that out there. i'm sorry if it seemed like i was putting you on the spot by bringing it up. i consider this discussion not related to the game, but if you would like to keep talking about it we could PM when this game concludes.

pedit: this is why i catch up backwards! it has many perks. :>

Titus, i think she was asking what you think Haggle's agenda is.

[Chara]

Frost: what changed your Titus read to a TR?

I was never scumreading her?

i see, i misread 864.

[Chara]

finished looking at Haggle.
conclusion... not as concrete as i would like.

it seems like the two heads aren't really syncing nor discussing their approaches with each other. doesn't look like they're sharing reads. BP's posting ignores Hectic's and picks up where BP left off. i can't really mine an agenda out of it, it's more a lack of towny evidence.

other thing that jumps out at me: BP responded to Titus by saying he's being called "surface level". the only player to use that wording was me. also mentions me as suspicious after saying he believed davesaz.
what's missing is responses to my posts or posts directed at me, which i would expect given those two points. part of why i was hoping Haggle would stick around in the thread a bit.

failed at the goal, which was to determine a Haggle agenda. seeing both head's response to recent Haggle discussion would be great.

[Chara]

i have to agree with dave here. on a first pass i'm not seeing Haggle's burst of posting here or the replies to me as particularly scummy. the questioning on Joan is something i think Nancy could answer, since i'm fairly sure i understand her position on it and i believe Haggle could too with a more concrete explanation.

minor thing: BP, would you mind linking me a couple of your recent full-length games? a town and scum are preferred but if they're not recent, town/town is fine. i doubt this will be a large factor in my read but it's going to bother me until i check.

i'm biased due to already scumreading them i'm sure, but Romeo coming in with "i still scumread Haggle" and then making a few posts about irrelevant things doesn't exactly improve my read there.

pedit: time to see if i also missed the answer. hold on.

[Chara]

okay, so again i understand Nancy's answer but i think Haggle doesn't. i don't see why he would be pretending not to as a scum move, so maybe explaining it again or quoting the answer would be a good idea?

[Chara]

Haggle: i lean town on the Eon hydra. could go either way but happy with the toneread.

pedit: sure, but i find it more likely there's a miscommunication than anything else. i would rather resolve that first.

[Chara]

your hydra etiquette could use some improvement. if you keep signing consistently though, it's all good.

in that case i'd like Chennis to elaborate. what's your read on Haggle, Romeo?

pedit: forthcoming meaning her interaction with you post-claim, as compared to Starcraft where she didn't interact like that?

[Chara]

Why are you ignoring the posts I quoted in 1751?

the posts you quoted in 1751 aren't an exhaustive sample of your posting concerning Haggle, though. you did say you wanted to powerlynch the slot if it wasn't in hydra, which sounds like a push to me, in addition to your post asking why you shouldn't vote Haggle.

[Chara]

Venus and Mars are pretty bad as far as mislynch targets go, so i don't know if it's that. so yes, Haggle, i would say with some confidence Nancy's town here, taking that from someone who does have multiple games with her.
i would guess he's targeting you because you've been discussing his posting a fair bit, and from an outside perspective i feel like your two slots aren't understanding each other. it doesn't look like purposeful actions.
the Nancy TR is definitely strong than the Haggle TR, but barring something convincing from Titus i don't see myself voting Haggle today.

[Chara]

Chara reads like Data from Star Trek.

This wagon is total unbuttered popcorn.

I want something else to happen but lack desire to do it myself.

i don't know enough about Star Trek to know if this is accurate or not, but i feel it isn't. i can type like a good human if i want to. i just don't want to.

vote Romeo and Juliet with me, then.

[Chara]

you too, RC? should i use some emojis? some slang? make a few punctuation errors?

Fish did already elaborate, i believe. i thought the assessment was fair, and i do feel much more situated than i was at the time of the judgement.

[Chara]

dave: *noncommital "i don't know" noise*

Titus? it's tangential to my Titus TR. is tangential the word i want? not sure.

pedit: you've said that before, yes. i have a talent for being ineffectual but pleasant and uncontroversial. it's an asset when i'm scum but gives my towngame a wet blanket feel. i was referring to being likened to a robot, however.

pedit2: huh. if i'm lucky that Cowbells fact will still be relevant the next time we play together.

[Chara]

You love me and robots can't love.

[Chara]

Anyone else with more experience her care to comment?

i've played with town Titus who did participate day 1. i find it has more to do with her rl situation. i don't think a scum or town Titus with the time to do work in the thread is just going to sit on that and not participate, even if she does dislike day 1s.

[Chara]

Can you refrain from incessant one-liners?

If you don't leave me talking alone then sure

you were posting alone for about an hour past midnight EST. i'm not sure that timeframe warrants complaints about the game being inactive. :>

[Chara]

VOTE: Romeo and Juliet
come out, Chennis.

pedit: pour one out for that game that just finished.

[Chara]

It's the weird push on dave which you did while the Joan wagon was still ongoing (and before she had claimed). The reasons for pushing him were pretty weak too.

I can't remember if it was you or Hectic that pushed him though.

what's the significance that this happened while Joan's wagon was happening, or that it was before her claim?

[Chara]

Almost: who's the player in this game you're paying the most attention to right now? besides AP and Dredd. :>

You should've asked me this yesterday, or waited for tomorrow. Today I'm on cruise-control, so to speak

can i ask again today?

[Chara]

so far, Nancy's hydra slips (on her main account) outnumber posting by Karnage, Frank, and nips, three players still in this game.

confirmation that chk townreads me achieved.

[Chara]

Plenty of information can be gained from a wagon, even if it's not a lynch.
Taking note that someone is playing the information card this early, in case that's relevant.

VOTE: Emp. Flippynips

plenty of information can be gained from any wagon, but it does help when the target is active.

are Romeo and Juliet scumhunting?

traveling today so i won't be here.

[Chara]

why don't you like the Nips wagon, Haggle? it's larger.

this is not a complaint, though.

[Chara]

wagoning inactives is so boring. i prefer the Haggle wagon and i have a townlean there.
sure, you get information from any wagon, but that doesn't mean you have to pick the LCD wagon.

pedit: most of what Drew has said recently has felt like another language, including the pre-flip analysis of both Nips and R&J as mislynches.

[Chara]

i can't read Creature when he approaches a game with this attitude. :<

even though dave is voting Nips i still like him. wish you were here, davesaz.

[Chara]

sort of my point, Drew. i understand what you're saying, but i wonder why this analysis is happening now and not after a flip.
i see how my own wording gives the impression i just didn't understand what you meant, though.

Nancy: i don't really think this Creature is doing anything to advance the game forward, either. and the attitude i'm referring to is his uncaring one. it doesn't seem he wants to be in this game, though that was plain enough by his entrance.

i find players who care much easier to read.

[Chara]

i've been playing mafia with Creature for about 3 years now, give or take.

[Chara]

not annoyed by him. just know he's readable and hoping to see him bite something. the game isn't barren of content.

[Chara]

Haggle’s ISO is full of reads, some may be bad or wrong but that doesn’t make them scummy.

R & J’s ISO is primarily mech talk and I really dislike how difficult they make it for you to ask them absolutely anything.

But I tr Hectic’s tone over anything else. He doesn’t seem closed off or disconnected, so I think they may be town here.

<3 Nancy

[Chara]

VOTE: Frank
This slot is just lurking, doesn't participate in the game. Unless he gets more active, we should lynch it.
-Romeo

why not vote Nips then? why start a new one? this is a weird choice.

[Chara]

But also if anyone is actually going to do the thing where they scumread me talk to me

I'm not getting mislynched this game, period

this post is from Chennis (based on the post made a minute before), and i've been waiting for that head to make good on it.

Asriel's ISO is mostly mech talk and fluff so that's why Chennis head is the one i've been asking for.

but scumreading both heads of a hydra is a good indicator for me that i really want to push there.

having opposite reads on heads just means you're doing something wrong reading one of them and should find which one that is, i would never say it cancels out to a null read.

Frost: Drew's posting did feel a bit tmi to me as well, but that's only if Haggle's scum, which i don't think.

pedit: follow your heart, Amrun. lynch the lovers.

[Chara]

But he was so controlling as scum in Surprise and he’s really not here. @Chara, please weigh in on this, thanks. <3

his last scumgame (modded by Boon) that ended a bit ago was also low-control, though he does definitely have a tendency towards what you describe.

for now he's a slot i'm not very concerned about for scum. we will have to wait and see.

[Chara]

Also, can you give me your thoughts on Dave. He’s another player Shiro is suspicious of. I’m not really sure why but I could use other thoughts on this, thanks.

most everything dave posts has me nod and think "yes, i agree with this."
that's as far as i've gotten with him.

[Chara]

But also if anyone is actually going to do the thing where they scumread me talk to me

I'm not getting mislynched this game, period

this post is from Chennis (based on the post made a minute before), and i've been waiting for that head to make good on it.

the R&J wagon is simultaneously a push for the slot to give and commit to some reads that aren't mechanical or rote (like voting Frank to get participation, explicitly, even though that requires a Frank wagon and given Nips's previous existence anyone putting though into it should be able to tell Frank isn't going to suddenly take off just from that), and because they're scummy and continue to be so.

i'm looking for genuine sorting, something to convince me of genuine sorting, or some light cast on their position this game*, from R&J. i think if they're town they should be able to do it, with the concession that i don't have experience with either head.

*and if there's some reason this can't happen, a look at that would also be useful.

also interested in reads on RCE and myself from both R&J heads, since they asked about RCE, Haggle, and Chara.

the reason i haven't demanded this from every slot i think needs to participate more: i don't scumread those slots/i'm only human (barely) and can't cast such a wide net/R&J expressed a belief they won't be mislynched and as someone hard to mislynch i would enjoy seeing them prove their towniness if it exists.

[Chara]

never nap without your phone plugged in.
are you cool with voting Nips, Clem?

also if i didn't say hi to you, hello.

a meaningless comment about flavour: my own flavour is from my favourite work by Shakespeare. it should be noted, however, that i don't particularly enjoy Shakespeare.

[Chara]

so you are sus about the other two?

also curious if you have looked into Bambi yet, while i have you.

[Chara]

regarding this discussion i would say: on this Day i don't believe further flavour speculation will be helpful.
i don't consider it particularly harmful either (and those who remember my play in previous games know i tend to think it's very harmful), but given the potential for harm is there that's my take on it.

[Chara]

haha.

[Chara]

i would like to point out to Nancy that R&J did give a readlist.

[Chara]

happy birthday!

[Chara]

somehow i don't think he will. at least not for this.

[Chara]

it's an idea, but i'm not too sure about it. with extra effort anyone can look up what flavour's needed.
Espresso being dead is good enough for scum that my first thought is them knowing his role somehow.
outside of that it's a fairly random choice.

i liked dave's invest.

[Chara]

i do wonder why Espresso didn't claim his miller.

[Chara]

Press X to doubt.

Wouldn't be surprised if people who out as vanilla'd go closer to endgame than you'd think. Given that town has now had at least two vanilla-like outings, it wouldn't turn my gaze if mafia focused on people they thought still had potentially damning abilities first.

Creat, I was being a smart ass.

[Chara]

hey Almost, are you Ascetic, untargetable, or some other third thing that prevents actions on you? :>

[Chara]

it was actually R&J's fakeclaim and Bambi's handling of it that convinced me she was town.

[Chara]

That's why I said 2, Drew.

Frankly if you fullclaim I'll probably believe your town over the vague doctor.

did Drew claim something?

[Chara]

That's why I said 2, Drew.

Frankly if you fullclaim I'll probably believe your town over the vague doctor.

Why would I full claim?

Why do you want me to full claim?

Pre Edit: How was her reaction to the super saint claim AI?

how long did this post take you to write?

[Chara]

none of this is my strong suite.

so Almost, you have an innocent result on Nips?

[Chara]

this is why we declare L-1 and check the count before voting.
see you all day 3 i guess?

[Chara]

so to be clear, Drew neighbourized you last night, and it's the hood with Joan?

why did both agree to keep you secret, and can you paraphrase the contents of the hood?

[Chara]

if it wasn't already, it was a hammer after Bambi voted.

[Chara]

Yeah, me too.

Good luck everyone, I know the town will win if y'all just band together.

Sorry I fucked up, guys.

[Chara]

did Drew TMI Nips town? considering he was assuming Haggle scum (and i currently believe dave), i don't read it that way even in a Drew scum world.

[Chara]

i am not opposed to lynching Drew or lynching Nips. someone loverize them so we can be economical about this.

[Chara]

so to be clear, Drew neighbourized you last night, and it's the hood with Joan?

why did both agree to keep you secret, and can you paraphrase the contents of the hood?

@Frost

[Chara]

I planned on outing it once I realized drew was a scum neighborizer. Dont feed into the bs hes spewing at you

please don't misunderstand, i'm asking for clarification from you so we have as much info as possible from a source that isn't Drew, who i don't trust.

why did those two agree to keep you hidden, did they talk about anything in the hood, etc, is there anything specifically in there that made you realize.

[Chara]

if i'm remembering right, Almost and i started hydraing because our play made zero sense to each other, in a game we were both town in.

haven't had a chance to catch up yet. grateful Frost isn't hammered. i also believed he was so i think it's fair to lend credence to the idea he also wasn't aware if he had been or not.

if Almost hid behind Nips: no enchantress. Nips is town. Titus and Creature's actions failed due to Almost being hidden.

if Almost did not hide behind Nips/failed the action: could have been Enchanted. explains the failures. could also be scum. could also be lying town.

Bambi: is probably town. i don't find his Titus discredit scummy nor his hammer. i do find his behaviour after the first hammer and subsequent second lolhammer to be play i dislike, but am townreading from Bambi.

[Chara]

@A50, why did you target Flips in particular? I was expecting you to target Drew.

I believe I ended the day voting Nips, not Drew!

assuming this means "i hid behind Nips and had to do so because of my vote, in case i die from it" it's +1 towards the Hider claim's legitimacy.

[Chara]

missed it then. i'll just catch up.

[Chara]

so. founds 819, found the hard claim, i'm caught up on that.

Nancy: at the time of the post, i thought it was likely he was actually hider. and then after beginning to ISO him (backwards), i started worrying Almost was scum. reached the post mentioned above and my paranoia was settled again. not sure how i missed it in the first place (while i'm not fully caught up currently i had thought i'd read all of day 1), but alas.
Titus and Almost have the same modifier, to keep things simplified in my head.

my thought this day has been that i like Nips wagon better than Drew, but like them both. is it very likely that Almost was not able to actually clear Nips? given Enchantress/rolestopping/what have you. if he was rolestopped his result is legitimate, if enchanted it's not. if it can be proven later somehow that Almost was in fact able to use his ability last night, and Nips could be clear, i don't want to lynch him, but my mechanic chops are pretty awful right now and i'd be relying on others to tell me if that's possible or not.

falling back on something i can actually do, i don't find what Nancy quoted to be convincing, tonally, that Nips is town. i am hoping when he gets home to his computer he works on reads.

as i said, no interest in lynching Frost or Bambi. going to keep catching up but i'll continue to post while i do so, if something interesting happens. most of this day is mech talk which i'm terrible with, but there's content i can read between and within that.

[Chara]

His neighbor, I think. He said the role was town...and later that he had to look it up to find what it did.

I can't remember who that is though.

do remember who that one is. Clem rolecopped Bambi (which makes sense to me from Clem), and said the role was townish.

[Chara]

how so? i thought Clem was in Bambi's possible scumpool.

and for the post above that, are you referring to Nips? just to be clear on what you're responding to.

[Chara]

catchup notes, these were added to each player heading piecemeal as i was reading and so are not in order.

davesaz: liked his invest target, did not like his decision to roleclaim because it's the same thing as hardclaiming VT in a non-rolemadness and narrowing down the pool of PRs. still, most assuredly town to me. he added to the "town Frost is very solvy" thought.

Creature: initially really distrusted him this day but the casual outing of several strong abilities seems too brazen and casual for scum. not sure.

Bambi: his thought that Almost gambited with Hider (essentially looking awful if scum, and that being the gambit) is also a thought i had, which says nothing about Almost but does give some more insight into how Bambi is thinking as someone with Almost experience.

Haggle: is for whatever reason really pinging me today after doing the opposite yesterday, but i trust davesaz's result. it's probably just me given my read there yesterday.
2768 definitely read to me as a joke and i'm looking for players who took the BoP seriously given there doesn't seem to be real evidence for it in Frost's past games. as i read further with Haggle they ping less.

Amrun: 2986: that's rough, buddy.

Nips: 3004: feels not good. i think Titus's thoughts about what went on during the night are off but i do put a lot of stock into her VCA as a general rule.

V&M: 3013: i do definitely feel this for scum Drew as well.

question for Titus: why am i not a factor when you're discussing R&J VCA? i was consistently pushing them and i feel like my name would come up there as some sort of factor.

chkflip: still fine with him, upset that he's no longer so obviously town given the miller claim when we had a miller flip. i also disagree that Nips is conftown due to the possibility of Almost being affected by actions somehow. he was very loud yesterday in his claiming and drawing negative actions intended to stop him from being checked/doing any checking or anything else seems very likely to me, given Creature's no result on him.
3078: is there a player you think is more likely to have been hit with actions? Almost drew two night actions that we know of (Creature and Titus's), and he played trying to intentionally draw actions.

Drew: 3100: what do you like about Titus's play so far there, Drew?
also in that post, i dislike where he (sarcastically?) asks who he's tunneling, but then preemptively defends himself re: the Haggle wagon. like he's not taking Nancy's accusation seriously, finding it inaccurate to his play, but does still defend himself with something defensible. it makes me feel he's really paying attention to what he's doing in the game, a mindset i find is more useful for scum than town.

ended this at the top of 125. will hopefully finish later.

[Chara]

how so? i thought Clem was in Bambi's possible scumpool.

and for the post above that, are you referring to Nips? just to be clear on what you're responding to.

If Clem rc Bambi and gave her a tr, isn’t that town indicative? Agreed, clear was maybe too strong a word.

i would predict scum Clem to do something like this, so i don't find it town indicative. this is a presumption from me that scum Clem would want to do what town Clem claims he tends to do, which is investigate Bambi N1 if he is able.
since Bambi has experience with Clem, his mild scumread of Clem (or lack of a townread) has some weight with me given my strong TR on Bambi.

@Chara: why am I the only on that list with no alignment comment?

coincidence. i added comments as they stood out to me, and the situation you described of being mislynched in LyLo with correct reads warranted, to me, an expression of sympathy. :> was not technically a readlist, though certainly has reads. gun to my head, i do TL you, though not in any interesting sort of way.

[quotes thread snipped]

Re-reading it I don’t feel as strongly as I did at first, but I didn’t like the addition of A50 being lying town. Idk just felt like a weird soft defense of A50 to me.

I forgot to answer you earlier if I thought all neighborhoods were town. I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t be. However, I still think either AF or Joan (probably not both) could easily be scum.

And honestly, Joan not dying last night in favor of EJ is a mark against her.

considering Almost has already proven himself to be lying this game, and i do TR him, i consider it an apt comment. that he lies as both town and scum is also information useful to reading him, in my opinion.

[Chara]

Anyway Chara gave me the easy townread when it was somewhat controversial-ish. I still had the wagon on me. But used the game we recently finished (deathnote) to form the read and it felt mostly superficial. That doesn't fit my expectation of Charas townplay but I also don't think I've seen them as scum. So it's mostly that I haven't seen Chara do it before and it weirded me out. Bef backing that up kind of reinforced it. Or influenced it maybe.

it's 100% superficial. i don't remember what i said but it's definitely me trying simply to avoid repeat paranoia, because light SRing you all game only to finally realize i'm wrong from a mech clear is not especially fulfilling. treating you as town unless given reason to do otherwise or be concerned is fine for me.

speaking of, Amrun's vote is very spicy. i'd like to hear about her take there.

i'm okay waiting on more light to be shed on the validity of the Nips clear.

Drew is fine but as Titus says he feels inevitable and my first instinct is inevitable lynches are mislynches or being bussed hard. even if it's the latter i'd like to get more out of the Day still. Drew is scummy 100%. don't have Nancy's benefit of meta.

pedit: thanks Nancy.

[Chara]

agree that Creature is a weird roleblock target. i just don't want to waste a clear if we could somehow determine Nips

is

clear at a later time.

[Chara]

Me too. But ehh. I’m still shocked Titus is on this

not to be like that since i said the same thing to R&J yesterday, but it would be nice if you gave some more thoughts.

even if you are town, is it that surprising to you that VCA points to you being scum? or that Titus is playing this way? assuming you have any experience with Titus.

[Chara]

do you get a notification your protection works? not disputing the Titus TR, but how would you know if you were successful or not?

[Chara]

Wait, if Joan healed me then I don't have even a clear on A50.

apologies for the question you've answered previously, but your role can essentially get guilties, right? clears are uncertain due to other factors.

Joan: ok, thanks.

[Chara]

I'm only at page twenty (plus reading what has been posted since I joined). I've also ISOd 50jp for... reasons. Can someone please summarise claims for me before we go to night?

i have my own request, could we also give Fonz some time to catch up before we hammer? i want to see what he does here.

i don't think Joan's claims make sense. her Titus TR coming on the start of D2 is fine, if it's intuition. but she says it's because she's loyal, and that she assumes her protection worked. assuming your loyal protection worked isn't a reason to assume your target was town. it has nothing to do with it, unless we lacked a kill last night.

[Chara]

You know who hasn't put anything into the thread? Emperor. You know who isn't new? Emperor.

Again chkflip, you're perfectly ok lynching town claims of clearing but not scum ones.

Nips isn't good either. but without actual evidence Almost was blocked (as opposed to being rolestopped/someone interfering with Creature), he's the target of a useful result.

that said, i know you can participate, Nips. if you're town i would appreciate you cutting the schtick.

[Chara]

Yeah, Joan is exhibit A. Her play is appalling and deserves to be policy lynched but I don’t even believe she’s a real doctor sooooo.

this is a role madness so every person we run up will claim TPR.

would not policy Joan, though.
however, we have definitely had a large number of games together, so i'm not sure why i'm not included in the players she knows. Titus is definitely closer to her however.

[Chara]

previous quote in my last post should have been the whole thread because the first half of it was a response to Nancy.

pedit: don't know, but will give my opinion on it after catching up on the events of today. and not voting until i've done a votecount for myself, a policy i think everyone could take a look at.

[Chara]

i thought Almost's final claim was Desperate. Weak was something he was talking about earlier.

my understand is Weak = die on scum/millers, and Desperate = die on scum/millers, action fails on town. distinct enough.

[Chara]

do you have an opinion on the Joan issue?

[Chara]

if we have a low-content slot that can promise content in two days, i would rather have it. the more unknowns we have the harder everything is. i think it's worth it. good luck on your shifts.

directing Joan and Almost to crosstarget seems to be begging for scum interference to make it pointless.

Creature: last couple of pages is her action claim/some Joan discussion.

pedit: Boon's description of Desperate lists dying on mafia/millers as optional. i'd find it strange if Titus just made it up as scum. i TR her as well. Almost could give a description of his desperate modifier only.

[Chara]

it's two pages and the only recent discussion but alright.

[Chara]

Drew being at L-1 isn't great. could someone unvote? i have zero faith that this list won't lolhammer (and i wonder why that could be.)

saying the game is stagnating after like a day isn't great either. we play forum mafia because players have lives. calm down.
stagnation-induced apathy is a real issue but we are not at that stage.

realistically Drew is probably the lynch but i sure would love the list to weigh in on Joan here.
we have ten days. we're waiting on a replacement. i am personally waiting for Fonz and others.

[Chara]

the potential clear thing is really the only argument against Nips as far as i can see.

Haggle, is your argument for Bambi scum anything besides the two quickhammers? it's unfortunate but that's a Bambi thing. whether you think the play should be excused/policied is a different matter, but i disagree with its use as an argument for scum.

[Chara]

sorry, Drew. i don't know why i said Haggle.

[Chara]

Drew: i understand that. she's difficult. i have some experience with her to contextualize things, but i understand your read better. was her vote on Aaron after or before Frost claimed doc enabler?
i do think there's some town evidence in her reaction to R&J's SS claim. when she thought she was dead from that she apologized to the thread. it felt off the cuff to me. could have been faked but i lean it was not. reminds me of a previous recent towngame where she made a mistake and was a little subdued for a period after.

[Chara]

if it wasn't already, it was a hammer after Bambi voted.

Hey, Titus tempted me to do it. You know my impulse control is wonk.

Also, use your night action on me Chara. I trust you.

just checked, she hammered before the claim.

grabbing this post for later.

[Chara]

well now we're just playing musical chairs.

[Chara]

Conditional

doctor.

Here Chk, this is irrefutable proof that she wasn’t lying about Loyal modifier.

it really only proves that she was planning on claiming a modifier.

[Chara]

She’s a LOYAL Doc but Titus is bleeding obvtown anyway.

Nancy, Joan being a loyal doc doesn't matter. docs don't get confirmation of their action going through or not.

[Chara]

Do you neither believe AF’s doc enabler claim or that we have any kind of protective here? No one CC’d Joan’s doc claim and I think Titus has valid reason to tr Joan, so yes doubling tripling down on hard vetoing that lynch.

i thought this was clear, but just in case i am going to make it very clear.

no one should have CCed Joan's doc claim. this is role madness and having multiple of the same PR is not only highly possible, i personally find it likely. no one CCing is not proof of any PRs legitimacy.

[Chara]

Titus, i've been trying to be on your side in VCA and in the Nips issue because i trust your judgement on things of that nature and my own judgement on your alignment.

i am telling you with absolute certainty that your thought process on this is compromised if that's your conclusion. please read my recent posts with a fresher head. Joan's responses to questioning have been awful and chk (and me, and Amrun, and RCE) are noticing.

[Chara]

alright, required reachout completed, i did my civic duty.

rest of the playerlist: please continue to weigh in on this issue as we wait for replacement/Fonz.

[Chara]

and Almost called Desperate a version of Disloyal, which i don't think is right since they're listed separately. Titus's description seems to be right. when Almost gets here i think it'd be good for him to check what his desperate mod does with Boon, to be sure.

pedit: i had a townread on his predecessor. still, more from the Fonz is better either way. sorry if it's obvious, which head of V&M said they have a TR on Fonz just now?

[Chara]

Conditional

doctor.

Here Chk, this is irrefutable proof that she wasn’t lying about Loyal modifier.

it really only proves that she was planning on claiming a modifier.

No more than that because loyal is conditional.

so it only proves she was planning on claiming a condition (there are quite a lot of them).
it is not irrefutable proof she wasn't lying.

[Chara]

davesaz: so what is your actual opinion on Joan's alignment?

[Chara]

Wait, I thought desperate failed on scum?

BP

you just said desperate was disloyal + weak, which means it fails on town and works on scum.

pedit: yes, if there had been no nk it would be worlds different.

[Chara]

not wanting to lynch Joan isn't what i'm talking about. i'm talking about chk and i being scum for disagreeing.

[Chara]

RCE: i was talking to Nancy, in response to her asking if i thought she was compromised. the answer is no, by the way. i said that about Titus because her conclusions recently have been singular and black and white, ie "you disagree with me, so you're scum", and "there is an Enchantress" as opposed to "something interfered with night actions and Enchantress is my theory". was also trying to talk to Titus by saying that and hopefully get a discussion about it which is why my language was stronger than normal.

[Chara]

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

they're saying that Almost being Desperate and Weak doesn't make sense because Weak is redundant. weak makes you die on scum, Desperate makes you die on scum but also doesn't work on town. so, having both as Almost claims he does would be pointless, though depending on how trolly Boon is feeling not especially impossible.

since the conversation will only be resolved by Almost checking with Boon and making a statement to clarify his modifiers and what exactly they do, i don't know if it's fruitful now.

Disloyal =/= Desperate (which is what Almost claimed) though. they're definitely different modifiers in the list if you check.

pedit: Joan targeting Titus shouldn't affect her Almost clear, or rather lack thereof. he is confirmed scum by the neighbourizer working. since the neighbourizer didn't work, he's conftown, was not targetable last night, or Titus's action was blocked. her being protected or not shouldn't affect that, since even if Titus was protected from her dying on a scum Almost, her neighbourize should still have worked and given her the guilty on him.
it's the whole reason she asked for doc saves to begin with, in order to get her guilties without dying. so not sure why Titus said her being saved changed anything.

[Chara]

because it means scum can choose to trade their doc enabling member's life in exchange for dismantling town doctors. or they have a scum doctor (in games with vigilantes/serial killers). hypothetically. i think Frost is probably town, and find it unlikely he is specifically a scum doc enabler. if he's scum i'm sure he's just lying about the role.

[Chara]

to be fair, she has been mentioning a doc heal as a reason for Almost not to be clear since she claimed, so it's not something she just suddenly said. but it does indeed not line up with the call for doc heals. just never really came up until Haggle brought it up.

pedit: Titus could have been blocked, or Almost is just town, which would also make her neighbourize fail. and there's the third option of Almost being rolestopped or an equivalent like enchantress.

pedit again: i have my own ideas about how to resolve the contradiction from Titus, but i would rather her just comment on it first as i find that the objectively better idea.

[Chara]

Drew and Joan outed their hood yesterday.

I am still a desperate neighborizer. So my role only works on scum and/or chkflip. But if I neighborize one, I die.

Tbh, I hate to ask for a doc heal but that makes a lot of sense here. I'll know if I get a guilty and so will my target though.

If I get healed from said kill, then I can out the result. Otherwise, I have a weak town suggestion.

I'm thinking A50 is actually ascetic scum

So Titus, didn’t confitown him then?

No. It's like 95%.

A50 ascetic (but unlikely).
Me being roleblocker on top of desperate.
Doc heal on me last night.

Those are the only ways I see A50 as not town.

the two posts in question for clarity. note in the second Titus is saying she might have been roleblocked, not that she might be a roleblocker herself.

first one she says she'll know if she gets a guilty with a doc heal (through her neighbourizer ability), second she says if she was healed he could be not town (which doesn't work because if he was not town her neighbourizer would have gone through, thus giving her a guilty).

pedit: i do agree, Nancy. still, i think it's definitely worth having Titus clear this up.

[Chara]

just being roleblocked would accomplish exactly the same thing. still not sure what the heal has to do with it.

and hi drunk Titus.

[Chara]

just being roleblocked would accomplish exactly the same thing. still not sure what the heal has to do with it.

and hi drunk Titus.

I don't know if I was rbed though because of the heal. I just as m 99.9% true.

why would the heal stop your neighbourizer from working?

[Chara]

the heal is still a non factor besides its role in keeping you alive. it doesn't affect your results in any scenario because you have a role that gives you feedback on if it was successful.

pedit: the doc heal is a factor in general, just not one that has any bearing on your results.

[Chara]

i don't understand what you mean but this is tiring me out so i'll call it a night for now.

[Chara]

RCE, no joke. You didn't notice anything weird about the vote count?

Mars, I'm talking about Ejet and Frost.

It also says “cop like” not just cop so any modifier can fit that if it can function as an investigative. Scum just happened to pick the most optimal NK.

i interpreted Boon's answer to mean that it's only coplike abilities that are affected. a Desperate neighbourizer should be fine.

that said, Almost and Titus are claiming plainly different versions of Desperate.

[Chara]

There is a post by Boon that says desperate is affected. I’ve quoted it several times but I will ask again. just in case to be sure.

i know, i'm talking about the same post. i read it as him saying coplike abilities are affected, not desperate because it's a modifier.

[Chara]

Little miffed nobody here answered me if it makes sense for town to get both a Cop-like enabler and a Doctor enabler on the same side. That's almost Beloved Princess levels of swing without actually breaking the Boon Rules.

it's hard to say if it makes sense until we see what the setup looks like as a whole.
regardless i think it'll be made clearer in a day or so.

[Chara]

and desperate isn't coplike. it's a variant disloyal modifier. a desperate doctor is not coplike.

[Chara]

just going to wait for Boon to clear it up because it's easier.

but all modifiers haven't gotten disabled, what? a loyal doc would work fine.

Haggle: they didn't, no. or didn't claim it. only dave and Creature have claimed that. if the PR didn't get a message about their nerf then they weren't nerfed. Titus and Almost aren't disabled as power role, and so we aren't totally screwed.

pedit: thanks Titus.

[Chara]

Titus, what do you think about Almost's claim of what his Desperate does? he says it's a disloyal that also works on millers and the like, but woildn't kill him. you say yours would definitely kill you on scum/millers.
i TR both of you but it's definitely a contradiction. i doubt it'd be the in the game as two slightly different modifiers.

[Chara]

Haggle, Nancy doesn't want Drew anymore because he didn't jump on Joan, i think.

also, misunderstandings exist. someone misunderstanding you does not mean they aren't reading. it's sort of like how someone having a different impression of 2541 does not mean they didn't read the post.

[Chara]

it is there, Titus.

[Chara]

fwiw I think regardless of mech stuff flips is a bad wagon

because there's nothing mechancially implicating him, only preventing him from being mech clear

also his posting got kinda better today

are you townreading him? regardless of mech stuff.
i don't think his posting has gotten any better, but i'm curious as to what you see.

[Chara]

chkflip is my favourite player in this game because i don't TR him but i do agree with everything he says. and by favourite i mean i hate this, since i don't want to push someone who is increasing my enjoyment of the game considerably, but i also keep worrying he's scum for it entirely due to my agreeing with it.
and i disagree with all my TRs on things, which makes it worse.

except for RCE i suppose, though it's less a TR and more chk-lite for him. and Amrun is genuinely a TR i'm happy with so there's that.

[Chara]

See, that's how A50s works functionally so it's not a check with the mod thing. The problem is that he also claimed weak in addition to desperate, but given what you're telling us about what desperate means, it's already weak.

BP

it is a check with the mod thing, since Almost explicitly said his desperate modifier does

not

make him Weak.

pedit: big old shrug to that, BP. my guesses are Almost misunderstanding, Almost lying, or Boon being a troll. all are possible, but i'm leaning towards troll atm. Titus lying is also possible but i find that one less likely.

[Chara]

ye

I thought his lack of effort D1 was scummy but since he sorta picked it up and is still relaxed I think he’s town and just doesn’t really care about solving that much

he is definitely still relaxed which is a point, but i don't think his effort has picked up. that's when he is posting, i'm not referring to a lack of activity.

[Chara]

you know what, sure. i still don't have an alternative.
VOTE: Nips

[Chara]

sometimes the wording someone used is confusing, or the player just didn't get it that time, and restating it differently can help.
if Boon refused to clarify ever because he answered once and we found it confusing, that would be a problem.

[Chara]

Almost: i enjoy both of your vote options (Joan & Nips). was wondering if you had any read on Drew? i know you're still catching up.

davesaz: do you ever hydra?

Bambi: i was wondering what you thought of my comparison of this game to our previous Death Note game together. in terms of using it to inform part of my read. i don't know the post number but if you feel like searching your name in my rather long ISO i believe it's recent enough.

my current gamewide thoughts are that scum are mostly in the lower posters. of the players posting a lot, the only ones TR with enough strength to not consider right now or ever if things don't change are: V&M, Titus, Haggle (mechanical based on dave's result), Almost, Bambi, davesaz, Amrun.

higher posters i don't TR strongly: chkflip, Drew, RCE.

Drew: the lack of TR doesn't mean i want to lynch it right now. the gamestate and way his wagon went unopposed make me think mislynch or designated bus.

RCE: he's towny but not strong enough to put higher. pretty much agree with his thoughts on things. the suspicion of me for TRing him early i think comes from town more than scum usually.

chkflip: he says everything i agree with but with a spunkier, less measured tone. if i'm entirely off my game in this one, chkflip is probably scum. if i'm not completely fucking this up, he's probably town. i'd like to play more games with him.

sounds like a cop-out (and feels like one) to say that but i do believe that most of the drawn out several-page arguments have been TvT, with the possible exception of chk though it'd be very nice if he was town for several reasons.
it's only day 2 but i would say this doesn't feel like a game controlled by scum, but rather one with a very disconnected town.

[Chara]

Now I'm super invested again. Thanks guys.

We're actually getting somewhere, so I guess I can ISO flippy?

oh hell yes. what made you invested?

[Chara]

I don’t respond well when I feel unfairly attacked, which is how BP’s “questions” are coming across to me.

that's fair. i didn't personally read any of it as attacks, but then again i'm not the one he's talking to.
i definitely felt like replying angrily when Titus dismissed me last night when i said i was feeling burnt out with "go talk to Nips in your PT". but she did say she was drunk before i even started speaking to her, and it wasn't exactly an insult to begin with.
but what i my point is that i understand the feeling.

[Chara]

davesaz: do you ever hydra?

I have at times, not something I do a lot.

if you were ever inclined, i'd be interested sometime.
i also avoid hydraing with players other than Almost, but how you approach games has piqued my curiousity about how it'd work out.

[Chara]

Chara, you made me smile. In a game filled with rage and hate I just wanted to say I appreciate you.

dave, no. Plz no. Nips is non-mechanically null and there are too many non-existent people in this game for me to agree that Nips is the one out of the half dozen that need to be lynched. Joan, Clem, BEF... all arguably better lynches from a non-existent standpoint. And I townread one of them earlier!

You're on the wrong side of this, bud.

<3

i followed dave's vote, do i get a speech?
i'd like to lynch Joan but i agree that leaving her alive is probably the better option mechanically with her being self-resolving. Clem and BEF are also pretty null yes. but why are they better lynches than Nips?

[Chara]

chk: i see you already answered Titus on it, so i'll reword my question to be: why are Clem or BEF (not including Joan because there are reasons for her to be scum that i'm aware of) necessarily better lynches than Nips? i'd quess it was the possible clear but we're talking non-mech reasons i think.
i can also say that while i lack scumgames with Nancy (i think..?) her play and reactions haven't contradicted anything i know from town her.

Nancy: delinquent has a miller component (it investigates as mafia) and so a miller claim from chk could be used to get the town delinquent to react in some way, either by CCing or by distrusting chk's claim, is what i think was dave's point.

[Chara]

NIP FLIP

[Chara]

you answered it.
sorry, busy right now but reading along. had to quote nip flip, it was important.

[Chara]

she doesn't use autocorrect.

[Chara]

but her super secret message is definitely Murder Fonz. watch your back.

[Chara]

so, mechanics Chara is braindead on the sidewalk, and what you all have in its place is regular Chara, who doesn't know what a mechanic is.
however, it did write a note in its own blood. if i just crouch down here, i believe it says... "enabler isn't on the role list because it's on the modifier list. if you want to lynch Aaron, just lynch Joan. either way you're killing an arguably scummy doctor claim, but the second one leaves some opportunity for other protectives to come stumbling out of the crowd."

no idea what that means.
i'm not leaving my bed today and i'm very medicated, so no need to expect anything. leave it to Fonzy.

[Chara]

it was pretty funny. i remember resisting the urge to quote davesaz posting "cummy" last night.

Bambi: i don't find him scummy. at least no more than others. but i'm up for being convinced if you feel like stroking the barely flickering ember than is my ego.

[Chara]

chk: mechanics aside (like i said, mechanics Chara isn't here at the moment), i'd like to talk about Drew. my current thought is he's still inevitable as he has no results on him and hasn't claimed an important PR. i, again, don't TR him, but i'm also not convinced he's scum (or at least a good enough option for scum) as opposed to unpopular town. anyone with a result/any sort of okay claim feels like they're never going to get enough votes to be lynched. and i understand the argument and have used it here myself.

i also understand Amrun's mindset of "this is all very terrible, let's just lynch Drew" but that sort of compromise seems to me to be exactly how we mislynch unpopular town.

so in the interest of talking about hunting and not what happened during the night, what do you think scum Drew is going for here?
i may as well cover my bases in an attempt to do this without 3 pages of semantic argument/mechanic talk, so i'll say i'm

willing

to compromise lynch just fine. hell, i'll lynch Aaron if there's a reason for it that isn't his claim.

the amount of players who've decided to sit back and let others play for them is awful, and any of them who are town need to do something. i don't care if they've read any of the thread, really. frankly, PLing non-participants is healthy if they're not going to do anything later. scum aren't going to kill them for us if they're town.

on the other hand, the higher posters could probably stand to leave well enough alone occasionally,

myself included

, in the interest of bringing down the pace of entirely pointless posts/rehashed arguments/mechanical misunderstandings. if i have to read one more post of someone asking about a role searchable in the first post, followed by a 4 page mechanic discussion that's resolvable by PMing Boonskiies... well i'll be sad. we can at least be mindful.
remember kids, ctrl-f works on mobile too. i believe in you.

[Chara]

hello Nips, i appreciate this post.
if you have limited time to devote here, a recent Drew ISO would be a great idea.

V&M is town here. i believe Titus to be as well. if you're town i think his defense of you reflects better on chk than not. the towncred gained from preventing your mislynch doesn't seem worth it to me, personally.
do you have a read on me?

[Chara]

*Scratch that Amrun did.

so did i.

[Chara]

chk: Nips is newish, i don't know if newb is fair or not. thinking on the rest of your post, thanks for it.

Drew: i don't know how to articulate this? but. acknowledging that your play hasn't necessarily been towny doesn't feel good. it feels less like you're defending your own choices this game (and why you made them) and more giving a reason for you not to be scum. would you be sheeping townreads/throwing spaghetti at the wall as scum?

Nips: great, i'm interested in what you find in my and Drew's ISOs.

[Chara]

Is there a reason why you're hiding it? Cops have been disabled, Joan's likely the enchantress target, and we have a legion of conftown.

well gee, Titus, why don't we all just massclaim then?

[Chara]

i'm not sure if a threat to report on a condition is very sporting either. if it was report-worthy, report it. if not, don't. if he does something later you consider report-worthy, report that.

sorry for your loss, Nancy.

[Chara]

i'm not sure if a threat to report on a condition is very sporting either. if it was report-worthy, report it. if not, don't. if he does something later you consider report-worthy, report that.

sorry for your loss, Nancy.

i wanted that formatted in a drop-down, not blacked out, sorry.

[Chara]

got hit with some major apathy myself here, which i recognize as a bad thing.

but still gave some more thought to chk's case here and Drew's posting. in the end i can't make myself believe Drew is more likely to flip scum than Nips. he's (Nips) said some good things and i understand if he's coming from a place of townpathy, but rereading his response to me some part of it feels too easy. given that i'm voting Nips (provided he's aware of that), and how he says he auto-TRed me and is wary of doing so and being paranoid. going from that to "i'll ISO you and make that TL a TR" sounds rather TMI.

Drew is not great, but above Nips. i'll help vote either but my vote is staying here.

[Chara]

but it refused.

[Chara]

i'm townreading BEF because RCE says so. so you can take that one up with him.

Fonz: i'll voice my agreement to you and Amrun's comments on the gamestate as well. though i wouldn't say i hate the game. at worst, Amrun, taking a step back might be all you need. we're nearing the end of a fairly rough phase now, i believe. but Titus's response to that was also good advice.

chk: you've been very agreeable to my requests so far, even though i'm not voting your preferred way yet. i disagree on Nips bleeding newbtown, though i did definitely enjoy hearing his thoughts.

[Chara]

i doubt you'll be mislynched for deciding to take a step away, so i wouldn't worry about it.

as for your son, i know i don't need to tell you there's also no need to worry about your status in any of your games from that. it's unfortunate that Drew, if town, may be lynched and you stepping away might contribute to that, but at the end of the day you did your best defending him when you were able, and that's all you can really do.
my strongest SRs are not lynchable either (Joan and Nips, it seems like.) and frankly given how day 1 went, i'm trying to reconsider how i SR in this game in particular to begin with.

[Chara]

why rolestop Almost?

UNVOTE:
i'll vote later when i'm not in class.

[Chara]

i don't find that warranted when i didn't insult your choice of action. i just asked. jesus christ.

[Chara]

i guess it's fair for you to be frustrated considering where my vote was, but i didn't mean anything by the question besides a more plain answer than what i'd seen.

not convinced on Drew but i'll vote there when i have a count/when i get the go ahead, i'm busy so i don't know if there's any night action housekeeping to do.

[Chara]

VOTE: Drew
it's alright, i was only parroting your words there and wasn't actually upset, if that wasn't clear. but thanks.

[Chara]

i've fakeclaimed miller as town. it's the best role in the game.
Rolestopper is specifically either alignment in the first post.

[Chara]

my experience is scumreading that sort of behaviour and being proven wrong. so, probably more similar to Titus's but with enough opposite experiences that i feel Amrun's opinion here.

[Chara]

i enjoy the Fonz.

[Chara]

i feel sort of shit about it, but i still don't want to lynch Drew. Adorable is actually attractive to me. my Bambi TR remains, though the complaint of her not solving very hard isn't lost on me.

[Chara]

where did you get 1-shot bodyguard from?

[Chara]

i did laugh at ascetic godfather.

[Chara]

I can't tell if Creature's list is a joke or if he's really that far out of touch.

Well, someone will have to correct it, so why not?

did someone claim bodyguard this game?

[Chara]

VOTE: Adorable

[Chara]

you towncased yourself, but more than that you towncased your predecessor. i voted you because i didn't like Clem and some players i TR called you scummy.

honestly? just gave a proper read of your ISO in response to your question and i can't fathom scumreading you. you're only scum if you've never been scum in a long game before/you're really new at it. (which someone could enlighten me on if they like, i know she's newish based on join date but that's all.)
UNVOTE:

[Chara]

to be clear, i don't mean if Adorable

is

new to playing scum she's then scum, i only mean i'll only consider it in that case.
her towncase on her own slot is remarkably honest.

(i'm going to be so embarrassed if she's scum.)

[Chara]

and that she responded to Amrun's scumcase with offense at her hunting skills is another indicator of being town. she's offended because she's town and read it as a remark against her play. i don't think newer scum tend to respond like that.

[Chara]

Oh, shit! So he did claim eventually! I was surprised (to the limit of being shocked, actually) the more comprehensive players didn't picj up on what he was hinting all along. I mean, he was confident enough you just had to think about it before you asked him WHY he was so confident.

TBH I still don't fully believe it. It's out of character for Boon to use a base role instead of one of his special ones. And I don't really buy going to bat for FlippyNips of all people.

maybe i'm misunderstanding here, but how does it not make sense? there are only three special roles even allowed in this game.

[Chara]

Clemency confirmed he also got a result on N1 and that was supposed to help clear out the confusion on davesaz result since Titus was saying he shouldn't have gotten a result on N1. Normally in a scum players point of view they would just keep quiet about their result and not help confirm to clear up the confusion.

for the record... while i TR you, towncasing yourself is always going to look scummy. even worse when you towncase your predecessor, whose actual thought process you have no way of knowing.

[Chara]

(i'm going to be so embarrassed if she's scum.)

You should feel embarrassed already for calling someone other than me Adorable.

Actually, I find the following quote to be twice as offending, come to think of it.

Adorable is actually attractive to me.

you really know how to hit me where it hurts, Almost.

[Chara]

watch in amazement as the entire game but Chara claims by day 2.

[Chara]

that's not a "you shouldn't have claimed, chk," that's a "we're going to run up someone else only to have them claim before we unvote, aren't we."