Micro 911: Technically Normal

[chamber]

Vote:Wimpy

[chamber]

Please don't do that.

[chamber]

Is it just slimer and wimpy?

[chamber]

He was already voting and trying to bait a fake speedhammer.

[chamber]

What, is RQS dead or something?

Also wouldn’t be the first time I’ve hit l-1 for not doing rvs

Not voting early is w/e. Making three posts none of which actually engage with the scum finding of the game is very suspect though.

[chamber]

It's not about knowing who the scum are 2 posts into the game. It's about making an effort to find out. You made a greeting post and then 2 reactive posts to NAI things.

[chamber]

It's not about knowing who the scum are 2 posts into the game. It's about making an effort to find out. You made a greeting post and then 2 reactive posts to NAI things.

You have unrealistic expectations for page 1/2

It's not about knowing who the scum are 2 posts into the game. It's about making an effort to find out. You made a greeting post and then 2 reactive posts to NAI things.

So basically participate in rqs in the first part of the game no matter what

I'd find it less suspicious if you had just said nothing, so no to both of you.

[chamber]

So lurking is less suspicious than engaging. Makes sense if you don’t think about it

You didn't engage. You pretended to.

[chamber]

@Chamber: Every single one of my posts after my first one was addressed to someone. If that isn’t engagement then Webster needs a new dayjob

Your confusion and annoyance at a posting gimmick is invariant to alignment. It's not real engagement about the game.

[chamber]

You’re embarrassing yourself here.

My first post was a greeting
2nd post addressed to bug spray that made a weird post
3rd was another address, expanding my thoughts/ teasing them
4th addressing my wagon, which was there because I didn’t participate in rqs.

Why are you tunneling me so hard for no reason?

I'm not tunneling you. I'm refuting your denials of the point I've made. You could still be town and have just done one suspect pattern of behaviour. That doesn't mean the behaviour isn't suspect. My vote has never even been on you.

[chamber]

But bugspray committed the same scum tell that I used to catch them last time as scum.

Citation

[chamber]

VOTE: chamber

Serious vote. I think my neighbor is scum.

It is WAY too early for this

I don't think the neighbourhood reveal is all that meaningful. I almost did so as well (though in my case I'm annoyed that he hasn't posted in it at all and that absolutely contributes to my read on him).

[chamber]

VOTE: chamber

Serious vote. I think my neighbor is scum.

It is WAY too early for this

I don't think the neighbourhood reveal is all that meaningful. I almost did so as well (though in my case I'm annoyed that he hasn't posted in it at all and that absolutely contributes to my read on him).

Why would I post in it so early?

Are you an alt?

[chamber]

You are, mind saying who of?

[chamber]

You have very developed opinion about the game that I strongly disagree with. I'm trying to verify that there is a record of you previously holding them so that I can confirm if they are NAI or not.

[chamber]

Or its evidence that my 'push' was being misread. I made a single mildly strong point (that I still stand by). Past that all I did was refute him when he came up with bad reasons for why my point was incorrect.

[chamber]

There is also a known IC, there likely isn't much more town power than that, or at least not without increasing scum power.

[chamber]

Salamence20

is mod confirmed to be

Town.

Game begins!

Votecount 1.00

Not Voting: Salamence20, Amrun, gobbledygook, Looker, chamber, Wimpy, bugspray, theslimer3, DrDolittle

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-16 06:42:00)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[/area]

[chamber]

Too distracted by scum PT.

[chamber]

Too distracted by scum PT.

I feel scum would be more aware, no?

I was only joking there. I don't think it says anything about the alignment of the user. I guess scum have a slightly high chance to know if they have day talk like our neighbourhood does (something I'm assuming is true). Then 1 of them noticing it could point it out for both.

[chamber]

Vote:bugspray

[chamber]

I think an sk can be normal in a large setup, but there can only be exactly 1 scum faction in a normal that is mini or smaller. I'd need to actually look up the rules to confirm though.

[chamber]

Lots of people in the same time period. Just have to exclude me and you have 2 clumps.

[chamber]

Is it your assertion that I'm playing like a noob? Because that wasn't my take away from the previous time you said something.

[chamber]

I didn't read post 89 as meaning that. I think there is a large space that could be non typical of both a noob and an experienced player. I've never been a typical player and I'm out of practice so being in that space wouldn't surprise me. I don't think I'd attribute anything I've done as noobish though, and I don't think I could plausibly get away with ever faking being noobish.

[chamber]

Almost no tells are absolute. The question is whether scum do something more than town.

[chamber]

Why are you requiring town me to be substantially more competent than scum me. Surely me trying to fake being a noob is more ridiculous a move for scum me than me having a 'bad' read as town me.

[chamber]

Vote: Wimpy

[chamber]

I agree the vote is a boring one, but that degree of pedantry doesn't come from someone honestly engaging in a dialogue.

[chamber]

I agree the vote is a boring one, but that degree of pedantry doesn't come from someone honestly engaging in a dialogue.

I’m not trying to engage in a dialogue with you. I have you as scum until you do something to convince me otherwise. The burden is on you.

Convince you by... engaging with you in a dialogue about the flaws in your reasoning? But you don't want to do that, and your reasons seem to always be changing.

[chamber]

Convince you by... engaging with you in a dialogue about the flaws in your reasoning? But you don't want to do that, and your reasons seem to always be changing.

No. Convince me by your actions. So far your actions show you to be scummy so I find you scummy. If you’re town, I’m hoping you’ll actually step up your game. I like my reasons. I don’t think they are flawed.

Here's the thing bud, I have no desire to play the game the way you think I should. I'm going to just keep playing the way my experience dictates is best, and you can fuck off. You have a huge ego for someone whose too afraid to even admit the old account they used to play under.

You also don't get to be the only one asking questions that are answered. Go back and give my previous one a real shot and I'll continue talking to you, until then my votes not moving.

[chamber]

I said hello to him before this thread opened, there has otherwise been no communication.

[chamber]

Honestly, if there is mafia in hood, its chamber.

Scum wouldnt attract attention to their hood like wimpy has

I think this is a misreading of the situation (obviously I'm biased but) it's his disdain for neighbourhoods which explains why he outed it when he did and why he never used it.

[chamber]

At this point I'm past caring, I just want you dead. I think my vote should have made that fairly clear. Good talk.

[chamber]

You really don’t handle being scum read very well. If you are town you have a bad attitude so I’m fine with you being dead.

I tried to engage you on it and you were completely dismissive. I don't handle being talked down to by people hiding their identities well. Again, go fuck yourself.

[chamber]

Maintaining lies in multiple conversations and threads is harder than maintaining them in 1. I also think not posting early is a scum tell because you'd be more invested in, and get more out of posting in the scum PT.

I have dismissed all of those points though when it became clear you just have a fucked opinion about neighbourhoods.

[chamber]

This game will never be productive with both of us alive. Choose one of us to vote for and lets end this day.

[chamber]

Their post history indicates they took a sizable break between their old account and this one. I wouldn't assume they are anyone thats currently active or has been in at least a couple years.

[chamber]

wimpy you sound like a reddit atheist who posts on t_d

Just got this. Funny post.

[chamber]

I really don't like the DDL wagon, so I guess I have a slight scum read on you for your place on it.

[chamber]

You're MagnaOfIllusion aren't you? Ugh.

[chamber]

why do you actually scum read me chamber?

From my perspective you're a giant hypocrite when it comes to how you expect to be responded to and act and how you respond to things and act. Also from my perspective your reasons for suspecting me have been very inconsistent. When DrDoLittle confirmed that I'm just being myself, you dropped that point and moved on to others seemingly out of nowhere. You are hard confirmation biasing if not scum.

[chamber]

I wouldn't say it was a scummy push, but I can say it kinda does seem like he just wants to look like he's doing something there

Doing something just to look like you are doing something

is

scummy. And despite how you and Wimpy have tried to spin it, that is/was my actual issue with your first 3 posts.

[chamber]

You have horrible reading comprehension. You imagining reasons for why I do things doesn't make them true. Those 2 statements aren't exactly the same, but they are the same in the ways that matter to me suspecting him when I did. I've never been voting you for suspecting me, or for any 1 reason for why you suspect me.

[chamber]

That's remarkably unclear.

[chamber]

Making three posts none of which actually engage with the scum finding of the game is very suspect though.

=/=

Doing something just to look like you are doing something

VOTE: chamber

Making 3 posts ~= appearing to doing something, them not engaging with scumhunting ~= not actually doing something.

[chamber]

Why are you requiring town me to be substantially more competent than scum me. Surely me trying to fake being a noob is more ridiculous a move for scum me than me having a 'bad' read as town me.

I’m not requiring you to do anything.

When I say he was dismissive I mean this post. This is where he went past the point of no return for me. Explain how this is 'challenging' me.

Also for the nth time. I didn't declare you 100% scum. You were a good lead at the time and worth pressuring. You got pressured.

[chamber]

Making three posts none of which actually engage with the scum finding of the game is very suspect though.

=/=

Doing something just to look like you are doing something

VOTE: chamber

Making 3 posts ~= appearing to doing something, them not engaging with scumhunting ~= not actually doing something.

I can't adhere to your logic and I have a strong feeling you're either the type who thinks they're never wrong or everyone else is stupid

I admit I'm wrong when I think I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong more often than I admit it (I suspect most are) but I'm far from someone that never admits it. In this very game I attempted to check myself on Wimpy early on which is how I stumbled into him being an alt. The only person I think is 'stupid here' is Wimpy if he's town. He is either scum or critically lacks an ability for self reflection.

[chamber]

That's not going to happen.

[chamber]

Of my first 3 posts the first and third were scumhunting. You clearly disagree, but you aren't town.

[chamber]

The main point is that DDL is posting like hes honestly trying.

Uh. Chamber is guilty of this.

You continue to fail at reading. He's contrasting this against how he thinks DDL normally plays.

[chamber]

I didn't declare you 100% scum

Scum hiding behind semantics

Words matter. Someone being a good lead on page 1 is so far from them being confirmed scum. You can't pretend like I thought he was confirmed scum for only that. Right now I think him being pocketed by you is a bigger reason to suspect him. If we are talking numbers he went from like 25% to 30% or something for that to me, and you guys are both treating it like I thought he went to what 95%? Fuck off.

[chamber]

Of my first 3 posts the first and third were scumhunting. You clearly disagree, but you aren't town.

Nobody would agree. Cause they aren’t.

My first post was a serious vote (for a reason I no longer agree with but serious non the less). My third was eliciting opinions about the game state.

[chamber]

Words matter. Someone being a good lead on page 1 is so far from them being confirmed scum

Uh why do you think I’m referring to your rvs vote?

I was never even talking about a vote in what you just quoted, but my opinion on slimer.

[chamber]

Vote: Wimpy

This is the omgus vote.

I obviously disagree, but different people have different definitions of what an omgus vote is. I've explained why I voted you then, at no point was the reason only that you were voting for me.

[chamber]

Of my first 3 posts the first and third were scumhunting. You clearly disagree, but you aren't town.

Nobody would agree. Cause they aren’t.

My first post was a serious vote (for a reason I no longer agree with but serious non the less). My third was eliciting opinions about the game state.

You can’t say after the fact it was serious. If your first post in the game was a serious vote you make that known. Backtracking now doesn’t work

I explained why it was serious many posts ago. I thought you took it seriously until now as well, what else is

Ok.

VOTE: chamber

Meant to mean.

[chamber]

How about the fact that I never moved my vote to slimer as another reason to take it seriously?

[chamber]

Spoiler:

Convince you by... engaging with you in a dialogue about the flaws in your reasoning? But you don't want to do that, and your reasons seem to always be changing.

No. Convince me by your actions. So far your actions show you to be scummy so I find you scummy. If you’re town, I’m hoping you’ll actually step up your game. I like my reasons. I don’t think they are flawed.

Here's the thing bud, I have no desire to play the game the way you think I should. I'm going to just keep playing the way my experience dictates is best, and you can fuck off. You have a huge ego for someone whose too afraid to even admit the old account they used to play under.

You also don't get to be the only one asking questions that are answered. Go back and give my previous one a real shot and I'll continue talking to you, until then my votes not moving.

Nobody's telling you how to play the game, they just have disagreements with you. You're going way out of line by being that aggressive

Yeah Ive seen people before and Ive done it myself where you get paranoid about being in a neighborhood.

Pretty sure it comes from a town mindset. Scum wouldnt ignore the hood especially with chambertown in it. These hoods usually end up being T-T tricks. If you ask me (and Im sure as hell no expert of mafia) its better to go in trusting a neighbor to start rather than be defensive.

Why would scum come out of the gate and vote their neighbor who they know is town? Its too risky with little payoff.

The last game I played had a scum avoid talking to someone in a PT just so they wouldn't end up outing themselves. I hear it's a common strategy to ignore the PT

At this point I'm past caring, I just want you dead. I think my vote should have made that fairly clear. Good talk.

I'm starting to see some scume AtE from this post

You really don’t handle being scum read very well. If you are town you have a bad attitude so I’m fine with you being dead.

I'm starting to see some Town AtE from this post

You really don’t handle being scum read very well. If you are town you have a bad attitude so I’m fine with you being dead.

I tried to engage you on it and you were completely dismissive. I don't handle being talked down to by people hiding their identities well. Again, go fuck yourself.

Once again, he wasn't being dismissive he was challenging you. Also it seems you're far more aggressive with your attitude than he is.

It seems like we won’t get past this 1v1. Everyone choose a side and let’s just keep the game moving forward.

No.

VOTE: DDL

I think the chamber and wimpy death spiral is town indicative.

Between you and Bugspray I'm 90% certain there's scum..

Ok, I agree it’s bad faith not to post and try to sort in the neighborhood. Still not sure I scumread Wimpy for it.

I just want slimey to swing and I care little about the rest.

Again, why me?
[re-read edit] Actually that might be okay, it's probably because I haven't said much lately

Chamber, do you feel out of place this game?

VOTE: Gobble
That question is the most random thing ever and I'm sure it has no thought put into it whatsoever

slime was crumbling under pressure and just sort of sat back and relaxed while I was on the burner instead of counterpressing at me which is scummy posting behavior iirc
Also slime has really just sat back and relaxed as wimpy just sort of dominates the conversation and turned this thread into a Seinfeld episode.

Scum team is wimpy+slime

Why would you pin me to Wimpy? And why would I crumble under pressure and disappear after 2 votes get casted on me? Pages after I've been inactive at that

Okay I think lynching wimpy first before slime is better because then there won't be so much spam distracting town so I'm gonna do this
VOTE: wimpy

I'm genuinely questioning if you and Gobble are the same person in some sort of twisted split hydra or something

Cause I have no agenda and honestly agenda is just a buzzword people use that has no substance

Another statement that I feel was forged in the 13th circle of asspullery.
Genuinly kinda funny that you'd think the word agenda is used as an agenda for people who have no agenda. I might adopt that into my writing one day

Fuck off I literally said I thought there might be masons"
Think vs know message to indicate I'm speculating
Might to really show I'm not sure of it

Why are y'all making such a big deal about it?

Because it makes no sense that you came up with that and we're trying to follow the logic

What if I said the scum was probably in {DDL, TheSlimer, Looker}

Where did this come from and why? And you've mostly been sheepy, why are you trying to pull this now?

Where did slimer disappear?

To the scum PT

Brb Imma check

The PT's been dead since day 1 started though. Post more memes

my vote on you is good. i think your bugspray push is garbo, and your vote on me is baseless

How? The guy clearly has an agendaless agenda

Bug Spray

>

Gobble

> Chamber

Town win?

Fixed

I wouldn't say it was a scummy push, but I can say it kinda does seem like he just wants to look like he's doing something there

Doing something just to look like you are doing something

is

scummy. And despite how you and Wimpy have tried to spin it, that is/was my actual issue with your first 3 posts.

it was the first 3 posts. How in Gods name was I trying to look like I was doing something when it's literally just the beginning of the game? I could even slightly understand this if you were trying to push for this logic on page 2 after I've already made some posts, but by your logic, anyone who doesn't immediately either participate in RVS or start scum hunting (some how) in their first few posts, they're scum[/spoiler]

VOTE: Gobble
So it won't be hidden in the spoiler[/quote]

I was responding to this post with that one. Other people got in the way.

[chamber]

Vote: Wimpy

This was your only thing in that post so clearly you didn’t explain

You've since asked why. I've answered. I didn't say I explained at the time of the vote.

[chamber]

I don't believe you. You are just throwing more shit at the wall to try and gish gallop your way into a miss-lynch.

[chamber]

You've since asked why. I've answered. I didn't say I explained at the time of the vote.

Your answers still point to omgus tbh

As I said, some people have much broader definitions of OMGUS than I do. To me an OMGUS vote is voting someone purely because they are voting you. The notion that I could be OMGUSing with that kind of lag is nonsense to me. Voting someone thats voting for you because their attack on you is bad isn't OMGUS imo (and I wouldn't even reduce my vote on you to that)

I think this is a bad point to have at all though. Reducing things this complex to buzz terms doesn't serve anyone.

[chamber]

I don't believe you. You are just throwing more shit at the wall to try and gish gallop your way into a miss-lynch.

I have no reason to lie about that. I’ve been an open book. Truthful and honest. Sadly you can’t say the same about yourself.

This is a good summation of why you suck. You haven't been an open book. You've been a dismissive asshole. You give yourself infinite charity and others none.

[chamber]

It's not.

[chamber]

There were ~130 posts between when you voted for me and when I voted for you. I was already seriously voting for you during your initial vote for me. In that period I unvoted you and then revoted you. During that period I attempted to enage with you about why you were voting me until it became clear you weren't interested in changing your mind.

[chamber]

Almost like I think an unwillingness to change your mind when presented with counterfactuals is scummy.

[chamber]

What’s even worse. Is I backed off you and you doubled down. You tried to use that against me. You didn’t want me to change my mind. You want this 1v1 to happen.

I didn't use it against you, that was you misreading something that was slightly ambiguously worded. I was just to lazy to correct it among everything else. the "others" there was "other points". When DrDolittle came out against your "this is chamber pretending to be a newb" argument, you brought up a bunch of other arguments.

I do want this 1v1 though, I have no interest in playing anything with you.

[chamber]

Almost like I think an unwillingness to change your mind when presented with counterfactuals is scummy.

Except you didn’t provide counterfactuals

The unrefutable counterfactual is that DrDolittle nullified your argument about me 'playing like a noob'

[chamber]

I didn't use it against you

You did cause it was in your “reasons” for scum reading me.

Every single one i proved was false.

If you continue reading this post you pulled this quote from, you'll see that it wasn't.

[chamber]

Go ahead and quote where I said I provided counterfactuals.

[chamber]

on the topic of neighborhoods... (and a bit tinfoil)
what if wimpy and chamber are svs? scum agreeing to be fake neighbors could really disrupt the town

also i trust salamance and the turkey, i think they both have put good ideas forward and i trust their plans

The cheeky part of me wants to tell you to vote for Wimpy if you think this is SvS. I find this point to be pretty weird though. It's the 2nd time you've suggested we are both scum, but the first time made me think you had some sort of PT related ability and thought 1 town PT set would be too few (which I disagree with being the case). You now suggesting that there is no neighbourhood makes me way more confused about your earlier thoughts.

[chamber]

Almost like I think an unwillingness to change your mind when presented with counterfactuals is scummy.

It’s implied here

It's not.

[chamber]

Spew bullshit, get called on it, move on to new bullshit.

[chamber]

Quote them.

[chamber]

Jokes are now lies. How 1984

[chamber]

Yep, none of those are lies.

[chamber]

Still no lies.

[chamber]

Committed to keeping this up now or implicitly admitting a lie, but yadayada.

[chamber]

Spew bullshit, get called on it, move on to new bullshit.

You summed up your game perfectly.

That’s why your scum. I haven’t spewed bullshit. You have. I think you’ve lied 4-5 times already.

When reading this post, who here thought those were the caliber of 'lie' he meant?

[chamber]

Be 10 fold less abrasive and I'll pull it back to. Continue on the path you are on and I'm likely only going to get worse.

[chamber]

I think you've been much worse than I have.

[chamber]

Different people can find different things offensive. In my mind you have been the aggressort. I'm fully willing to back off, but I'm also going to defend myself. It's not a threat.

[chamber]

Ive played one game with chamber before. The reason I brought it up was because I thought he got into a pissing match with another player, but I was incorrect.

The posting seems to be similar enough; he was town btw (granted that its 9 years old and meta is terrible) albeit a little more agressive here fighting with wimpy.

Anyone got info on chamberscum?

Wimpy has really pushed some of my buttons and I expect the aggression here would have happened even if I were scum. Ignore all of that when trying to read me.

[chamber]

Wimpy has really pushed some of my buttons

I’ll give you the same advice somebody gave me. If you can’t handle somebody scum reading you, mafia probably isn’t your game. Calling you scum and trying to get you lynched is the only button I pushed.

Oh look, you're still an asshole.

[chamber]

I assume his svs assessment is that this is unplanned and legitimate emotion from both of us, and that there is some scum undercurrent causing the feud. He's also hinted heavily at having some role he things conflicts with ours.

[chamber]

I've seen inexperienced scum blow up on each other over unplanned busing before.

[chamber]

I mean, I know its not what happened, I'm just saying what I think from his POV.

[chamber]

Ok scotsman.

[chamber]

My vote was serious as I've previously stated. Slimer was already getting a lot of pressure. At one point me voting for him would have been a hammer.

[chamber]

VOTE: chamber

Serious vote. I think my neighbor is scum.

It is WAY too early for this

I don't think the neighbourhood reveal is all that meaningful. I almost did so as well (though in my case I'm annoyed that he hasn't posted in it at all and that absolutely contributes to my read on him).

Why would I post in it so early?

You didn't contend with my assertion that I had a read on you when I mentioned it here. What read did you think I was talking about if not a serious vote on you?

[chamber]

Is it just slimer and wimpy?

Or how about this even earlier (though admittedly more flippant) post.

All of my play is consistent with it being a serious vote on you because it was a serious vote on you.

[chamber]

Maybe y'all should stick to salads

VOTE: Datisi

I mean wimpy you did rvs as well
Unless you're trying to tell me 27 was a serious vote?

It was a serious vote

Look who else has voted in rvs without making it clear it was a serious vote until after the fact. But I guess he forgot that in the last 2 months.

I bet he doesn’t have anything close to a legit reason for voting me outside of perceived omgus that is.

I mean the longer you drag the burger discussion on
The less time we spend sorting
Which is anti-town

But sure

I can actually do both. Please don’t tell me how to play.

Found this rich from him too.

Guys obviously scum.

[chamber]

Have you considered the option of starting a counterwagon on Wimpy with me?

[chamber]

Salamence did 494 not move you at all?

[chamber]

You not thinking it was serious at the time isn't credible to me, but even if that's how you felt, surely you have to admit now that it's odd that all these things just happen to line up and working if it's the case if it wasn't. But you can't do that because it would undermine the only point you have consistently stuck to for having your vote on me.

(And of course it was kicking tires, what else is a first post scum read. I would rarely expect to carry such things past the first several pages, them being weak is different from them being arbitrary)

I do just have you by the balls with those quotes though. Don't care if it makes other people think you're town, it emblemises how you're a giant hypocrite or scum.

[chamber]

The only way I’d believe your first vote was serious, is when you die and actually flip town. Since we aren’t in an alternative universe, that’ll never happen cause you won’t flip town.

You mean you'll admit it post game after you flip scum? cool.

[chamber]

dude shut up (this is coming from me)

No. I’m playing the game. You want me to shut up. Lynch me. Until that happens. I won’t be silenced.

Lets listen to him.

[chamber]

Me saying its weak but not arbitrary/random is the same as it being random? News to me.

[chamber]

Your argument hinges on it at least being less serious than my read on Slimer, which I'd have characterized in very similar terms. A page on serious read, but one I wouldn't expect to carry through the whole game. But I do think you've claimed it was random specifically, so I'm going to go pull that up now too.

Then policy lynch me. I got run out of two games because of bullying. I’m not going to stand down anymore.

You're the bully, you just deflect the claim back at the people you are antagonizing when they don't sit there and take it.

[chamber]

If you're 3/3 for running into this 'issue' maybe you're the issue.

[chamber]

Oh for crying out loud.

Random Voting Stage

2010 called. It says that actual definition died years ago. People vote in rvs for non random reasons now. It’s been that way since even before I left the first time.

EXACTLY LIKE MY REASON FOR VOTING FOR YOU AND SUSPECTING SLIMER YOU MEAN? THIS IS AN ADMISSION THAT YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.

[chamber]

Oh for crying out loud.

Random Voting Stage

2010 called. It says that actual definition died years ago. People vote in rvs for non random reasons now. It’s been that way since even before I left the first time.

EXACTLY LIKE MY REASON FOR VOTING FOR YOU AND SUSPECTING SLIMER YOU MEAN? THIS IS AN ADMISSION THAT YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.

Except those votes aren’t usually serious. You claimed yours was so I’m not full of shit

So are you just circling this back to meaning arbitrary instead (a word I literally used)???

[chamber]

A serious vote means serious scum read.

A serious vote means not random or arbitrary. Based on some game relevant reason.

[chamber]

A serious vote means serious scum read.

A serious vote means not random or arbitrary. Based on some game relevant reason.

I just explained what a serious vote is. I don’t agree with your definition

I'm countering with my definition in context to explain the difference. You can claim it means whatever you want, it doesn't mean I was ever using that definition. A potential vote on Slimer would still need to be for reasons I felt were more serious for your argument to hold any weight, and I didn't feel that way (and slimer was already getting plenty of pressure so you'd have won aproximate ties regardless), hence the vote not moving.

[chamber]

Ok wimpy, just keep calling everyone a liar and a bully. I'm sure that will get you far.

[chamber]

mod, chamber is not voting for me. His post glitched

Confirming that this is accurate. Weird nesting issue in that post that needs to be edited to resolve. I never moved my vote from Wimpy

[chamber]

please stop calling me he

I missed this before in my rage at other things. I'm not always the best at respecting pronouns and default to he. I'll do my best to respect them for you in the future, but if I do slip up know it's not an intentional slight.

[chamber]

Glad to hear it.

[chamber]

Glad to hear it.

where are you at now that you're not in a giant argument

I still think Wimpys specific behaviour was much more likely to come from scum. I also am not a fan of parts of your entry to the game. I'm mostly waiting on DDL to get back from their VLA so they can respond to that pressure before reevaluating things. Game seems stalled on that.

[chamber]

Looker is acting like Looker, I don't think I've seen anything that makes me lean either way from him.

[chamber]

Couldn't tell you. At least one game. I'm not claiming expansive meta knowledge, but the lurking and sniping fits my memory.

[chamber]

Slimer, do you have an example of you giving a reads list from a finished game?

[chamber]

Talk to me about your thought process when making your reads list. (slimer)

[chamber]

Why did you format it the way you did?

[chamber]

Actually if you relook on the list, Chamber was my closest scum lead to being town

Chamber: With their interactions with Wimpy and gross mental assaults on him, I'm not sure if it's AtE or some sort of aggressive strategy. I've found one of their other games as town but they weren't nearly this aggressive, but at the same time, they didn't have Wimpy in it. I'm saying leaning scum, but I'll admit, more recently

I'm putting him closer to town

Looker was lean scum but I wanted to hear more from him, but he’s said very little in attempts to scumhunt, he just seems to want someone lynched.
I’m guessing you saw the colors and assumed that everyone who was red and green were my concrete solutions and didn’t bother to read them further

I have a pretty big issue with retroactivisms like this. How did we know the words were more relevant than the colors? You gave yourself a lot of room to shift the meaning of things after the fact.

[chamber]

No. I did not go back on what I've said. I've literally stated what I felt, and you chose to pay attention to the colors rather than what I've said. You seem to have a very nasty habit of nit picking something small and trying to make it larger, but I refuse to take responsibility for the fact that you think it's my fault for not having a wider color wheel for my options. And the fact that you're not reading what I'm saying, but rather looking at things on the surface is incredibly counter productive to scumhunting. you've misrepresented me multiple times now and I'm starting to think this isn't an accident.

I actually valued your words more than the colours. But I can imagine a world where you decided to vote for me, and when confronted with the words, instead pointed to the colours and said something like "Well of course those words were only in the context of the colours! I still had you as deep orange, you shouldn't be surprised that I'm voting for you!". I'm not accusing you of doing that, only setting up the option to do either.

I think a lot of people find me nitpicky. I think that focusing on the things everyone else pays attention to when scumhunting is fruitless. If everyone know to pay attention to it the scum also know to try and fake it. If they are doing an obviously poor job at faking it fair enough, but I shouldn't have to look very hard too see it then. I put my effort into looking elsewhere. I know this can be annoying when I'm asking a line of questions that seems like it's going nowhere to the person I'm asking them of.

I don't think I've ever misrepresented you. At least not unfairly. There being a scum interpretation of things that I find plausible isn't the same thing as claiming it's the only possible interpretation. It's certainly possible you were just a bit sloppy when coloring things despite using so many different hexcodes. It's one of the reasons I was asking you for past examples and for you to elaborate on your thought process when making it. To be fair.

[chamber]

Saying that I'm not scumhunting because my first 3 posts aren't very serious isn't a nitpick, It's an accusation that wants to lead to a conclusion. You hided that behind just trying to see my behavior, but you still stood by the fact that I wasn't taking my FIRST 3 POSTS OF THE GAME seriously, like it actually is alignment indicative.

I stand by this being a weak scumtell. It was page 1. I haven't brought it up recently because we've moved passed tells that weak for the most part. Also if you read the exchange between me and wimpy I think I made it more clear what my actual grievance was, which you've continued to

misrepresent

.

Now you're trying to say that I can hide behind colors instead of the words I said. If anything, what I've said has far more to be criticized to it than whatever color pallet I've decided to go with. I've given reasons as to why I chose what I chose, and if you want to argue a hypothetical that I colored them because I wanted hide meaning behind them, then no matter what you say, you're misrepresenting me by nitpicking this.

I stand by this just not being a misrepresentation because I'm not claiming anything about what you did? I'm talking about hypothetical motivations behind what you did. If you can call that misrepresenting than ever considering that an unknown!town could be scum would be misrepresenting and I think thats stretching the definition past the point of it being useful.

Also this started with you saying that the way I've said things weren't detailed enough and only a visual account of the game (Which, I'm not sure how someone would typically give reads without doing that) so why haven't you tried following up on that? Also what are your reads? Show me how it's done

I honestly don't know what you are talking about here and I can't imagine myself ever saying this. Its antithetical to the way I play. Can you quote what you are talking about?

[chamber]

When you're playing scum what is your main objective.

[chamber]

vote town and prevent myself from being lynched?

How do you personally go about achieving this. Which do you put more emphasis on?

[chamber]

I'm not super happy with either of these, but I'm voting slimer given this option.

[chamber]

I think this is also pretty predictable, potential for scum ddl setting it up intentionally.

[chamber]

this as in what

That I would choose slimer given this option.

[chamber]

I don't look for reasons why someone is likely to be town. I look for reasons why they are likely to be scum. Scum can fake anything in the first category with the intent of looking more town. I therefore don't find any of your reasons compelling.

[chamber]

Are you trying to sell that a red slimer implicates me?

[chamber]

Mostly nothing (because of me). Ruby made some posts in there when they replaced in. I didn't respond to them because I'm already scum reading the slot and it feels like wasted effort.

[chamber]

Scum slime has no motivation to make that post other than a way of venting frustration (same as town slime). I don't think that is alignment indicative at all. Also if I'm being honest, bugspray has successfully confused at least me. I originally thought he unintentionally implied he was some sort of power, then he intentionally did very obviously and I thought he was trying to make it seem like a fake attempt to draw the nightkill from sal because he was actually a power role. Right now I think it really was an attempt to draw the kill from sal though, but its basically a big ball of WIFOM.

[chamber]

I dunno but thinking I might lolhammer slime

Don't do this until after he's been given another chance to respond to things.

[chamber]

@DDL: how did I disappear in any capacity?

You seem really beetlejuice-y. I'm not sure that's always a scumtell but~.

[chamber]

I didn't realize that the health concern with your child was ongoing, that explains enough for me.

[chamber]

bugspray, why is slimer a better vote than looker.

[chamber]

Scum have daytalk in their PT if I understand normal mechanics properly.

I'm also looking for his take not yours.

[chamber]

Yours.

[chamber]

I'm also looking for

his

take not yours.

I disagree

I apologize again for using the wrong pronoun. I appreciate that this is at very least annoying for you and at worst much worse. I'd still appreciate if you could answer the question though.

[chamber]

I wouldn't have hammered anytime soon. Happy to have slimer at l-1 though so that they actually respond appropriately when they come back.

[chamber]

Mostly nothing (because of me). Ruby made some posts in there when they replaced in. I didn't respond to them because I'm already scum reading the slot and it feels like wasted effort.

[chamber]

I think there’s probably 1 scum in the neighbors

When and why did your opinion switch from this?

[chamber]

I don't think anyone is very likely to hammer looker right now.

[chamber]

They were prodded.

[chamber]

Has anything about the way I'm playing or anything I've said given that impression?

[chamber]

I thought I was. No I'm not sure one of those 2 will flip red.

[chamber]

I'm voting for them and pursuing other options. Slimer might still be number 2, but it's really early into the game day still. Doesn't mean I'm that confident anyone is scum.

[chamber]

You don't think there's any way it could be looker or ddl?

The only person I'm sure it's not is Salamence.

[chamber]

Has anything about the way I'm playing or anything I've said given that impression?

[chamber]

Which posts. Which way were you reading them.

[chamber]

How do you see those three posts from bugspray and want a quickhammer??

[chamber]

You're asking too much on too little.

[chamber]

Chamber before your hiatus were you generally an accurate player?

I'm not some mafia god. When I'm very confident in something, I would say I was then quite accurate. I have no such confidence right now.

[chamber]

Salamence20 are you literally talking to fans? Like the ones that blow air?

Chamber if you aren’t confident why is your vote stagnant?

You still haven't answered my question. How about we start there.

[chamber]

I think there’s probably 1 scum in the neighbors

When and why did your opinion switch from this?

[chamber]

it doesn't preclude the fact that you dropped your scumread on me entirely, when you even claimed to be willing to hammer (intent)

What made you think she had?

[chamber]

What would her exerting pressure on you look like in this situation?

[chamber]

If your second of 2 scum reads was being wagoned would you really rally votes on the first rather than consolidating?

[chamber]

I think there’s probably 1 scum in the neighbors

When and why did your opinion switch from this?

I don’t think a scum neighbor would go into a 1v1 like that and leave their buddy 4 v 1 but I guess it isn’t the worst play

Do you think if myself or wimpy were lynched and flipped town, that the other would just roll over and be lynched themselves?

[chamber]

I think chamber was waiting on you but chamber should probably answer that. I might be wrong

He gave a bad answer to my question but I was also just generally wanting to see more from him. I already find 2 week days short as a disclaimer. At least he should claim before being lynched if that's whats happening.

I guess I also want him to answer why he alphabetized his reads list (for clarity's sake I hadn't directly asked this previously)

[chamber]

I think there’s probably 1 scum in the neighbors

When and why did your opinion switch from this?

I don’t think a scum neighbor would go into a 1v1 like that and leave their buddy 4 v 1 but I guess it isn’t the worst play

Do you think if myself or wimpy were lynched and flipped town, that the other would just roll over and be lynched themselves?

Also this isn't the when. At what point did your mind change. Link an approximate post.

[chamber]

No, I’m not claiming, and I alphabetically ordered them because I was going off of the activity viewer. I’ve said all I’ve had to say for now but I’d love to answer any more questions. Preferably ones that go somewhere

The default sorting is by post time. You have to sort twice by name to get a descending alphabetical sort. Is that what you did?

Why did you decide to use activity view this time to build your reads list over other options.

[chamber]

It all plays into my previous complaint about your list being a bit amorphous. I'd normally expect lists to be sorted by scummyness so yours being sorted alphabetically gives you more wiggle room. More details helps me decide if you are being genuine with why it was sorted that way.

[chamber]

Is slimer never going to claim?

[chamber]

Pretty upset with salamence here because I was promised things would make more sense. Really didn't like the way amrun was posting at the end of yesterday and was about to say as much when bugspray hammered.

[chamber]

That post also bothers me.

"I'm shaken by this town flip but I'm just going to go ahead and vote my other scum read like that's not the case"

[chamber]

No, but I'd expect more introspection given a wrong read than you've had here. Or at least waiting until after the reread to place that vote. It just is a very dissonant post.

[chamber]

It’s abdicating responsibility of the mislynch while pushing another.

:/

[chamber]

I tried to get some last thoughts out of them in the neighbourhood (and gave some of my own) just in case one of us died. They didn't post. Other than picking up their prod they seemingly haven't done anything game related in over a week unless they have some sort of night action or are mafia.

[chamber]

Of course you may not agree, but does it make sense?

I don't see it as abdicating anything; I see it as the opposite. If you had voted someone on slimer's wagon (to include me), I wouldn't be suspicious of you. But your ~expression of ~disappointment isn't an adequate enough penalty for me. Especially to just jump back in the saddle (with an immediate vote) with no further discussion.

Of course you may not agree, but does it make sense?

It does make a little more sense so I appreciate that answer. It’s still wrong though.

Fair
Feelings will shift as others chime in

This chain feels so off.

[chamber]

I'm in a state of reconsidering everyone. I'm not scumreading them for the absence.

[chamber]

That implies both that I'm scumreading them and that I haven't already said I didn't like RR's entrance into the game.

[chamber]

Is it a reasonable expectation to think this lynch will go through without discussion?

It’s a placeholder vote while I read through again to... y’know... generate discussion. So that’s unfair.

Have you read through yet?

[chamber]

Bad vote.

[chamber]

Which posts. I'm all for empty votes, but there needs to be a plausible chain of logic that can be deduced. Is it 1002?

[chamber]

Would you consider a compromise Amrun wagon?

[chamber]

Vote: amrun

[chamber]

Can we get a titus prod just to make sure she didn't forget this game exists

[chamber]

Well, hope he had me pocketed.

[chamber]

Likely Amrun or DDL is scum

why the looker vote now?

Can you claim, because I had you as a mason and this setup makes no sense with 3 masons.

[chamber]

They said stuff that was extremely suspicious. Being a mason explained it. Without a claim I can't see myself voting anywhere else.

[chamber]

Outright asking for a claim isn't role fishing.

This could very well be the critical day. He needs to claim.

[chamber]

They need to claim*

[chamber]

And I get the feeling that there might be masons

I think at least one of the neighbors is not town aligned, probably both.

I'm going to tinfoil predict that they are both sk

I'm predicting masons

I'm predicting masons

Unless you think wimpy/chamber are masons or you are a mason this makes no sense.

This exchange

[chamber]

How do you see those three posts from bugspray and want a quickhammer??

How do you see those three posts from bugspray and want a quickhammer??

Bugsprays posting is negatively affecting the gamestate.

THEY should stop talking.

This one too

[chamber]

Doesn't really matter though. You need to explain how you suggested there were masons in this setup before anyone else.

[chamber]

Vote: Bugspray

[chamber]

DrDolittles play here (especially knowing hes scum that was trying to pocket me) reminds me a lot of mcbeth mafia from like 2013. Bussed his partner there, so I do think its looker if not bugspray.

[chamber]

I'm not creature. A neighbourhood isn't a masonry. A neighbourhood barely counts as a boon for the town even when t-t. And the masonry had a macho IC to make it weaker.

[chamber]

I already claimed this in the neighbourhood, but I was also a 1-shot bodyguard. Wasted it on salamence night 1. Was going back and forth over whether the setup was balanced around salamence getting 2 days alive, or whether it was a trap to punish the use of it on him. Part of the reason why I was so annoyed at how little information he was giving when he was acting like he had a plan^tm.

If we are doing setup spec this is both weird (further justifying the technically normal moniker) and the only claimed protection role (justifying the Macho). A scum neighbour is a very normal occurrence and doesn't justify anything. I think set up spec like that is dangerous though because it could easily be red herrings. This different from speculation around balance which is more objective.

[chamber]

I think framing that wagon as being a counter wagon is disingenuous at best. I wanted pressure on you because you weren't doing enough for my taste. The fact that titus quickhammered frames the other votes as being more serious than any of them were likely meant to be.

[chamber]

I think framing that wagon as being a counter wagon is disingenuous at best. I wanted pressure on you because you weren't doing enough for my taste. The fact that titus quickhammered frames the other votes as being more serious than any of them were likely meant to be.

I don’t think so - I think counterwagon is just a factual term. It wasn’t a comment on how serious it was. Does this comment mean you think bug spray is scum? Kind of confused what you are trying to say.

I think basing any analysis on that snapshot is going to give you bad conclusions because its bad data. I wasn't arguing for any conclusion because of that.

[chamber]

If you vote Titus, I probably will as well. Anybody other than chamber and I fear Titus will hammer.

This is a really weird thought. You think scum have some way to win tonight after quickhammering?

[chamber]

I have no interest in voting Amrun or bugspray today.

By votes, Looker is scum.
By mechanics, Creature is.

Please stop calling me Creature.

By mechanics I'm scum? Thats nonsense. What do you even know about the mechanics? If we take 2 scum 2 masons 5 Vts as a balanced baseline setup (which seems at least plausible) making one of those masons a macho innocent child reduces the town power. Adding a neighbourhood and a bodyguard don't significantly increase town power, perhaps enough to offset the macho Innocent child Mason. All of this still counts on the scum having no abilities though. Do you know anything about what the scum have? In my current thoughts scum!bugspray has some ability that clued him into the existence of masons, for one.

[chamber]

@Amrun: So I'm RC's slot. Good to know.

@Creature Part of the basic premise of mafia is that they are the informed minority. That premise gets completely blown out of the water if we're both town unless 3 scum.

Please stop calling me Creature.

A neighbourhood doesn't inform anything.

[chamber]

I think its more or less inconceivable that I'd vote amrun at this point.

[chamber]

predicting a green flip for a wagon you were part of?

[chamber]

Wasn't lying when I said I used my bodyguard n1.

[chamber]

I said as much in the dead PT but I think there is plenty of blame to go around for the town this game. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself.

[chamber]

Just ignore him, he isn't holding us hostage by being in a game with us anymore.

[chamber]

Since I just read the dead thread, I would never fake a V/LA or IRL issue. It’s a little upsetting people thought that. I’d like to see any of you maintain a game when your very small child is actually very ill to the point he was eventually hospitalized. That is not fair.

I do mostly play at work, gobbles is right, though I wouldn’t categorize weekends as v/la in the way I used to 6 years ago. (Just only have time to snipe post mostly)

I didn't read the whole dead thread but assuming I'm part of this, I wasn't accusing you of having a fake V/LA. If your posting rate and method of posting was 90% V/LA and 10% because you were scum, that would fit with what I meant.

[chamber]

Wimpy, I really don't want to continue interacting with you, you've brought your complaint up with a higher level of mod, let that run its course and stop talking about me please.

[chamber]

Gg scum. Next time I won’t color code my fucking reads. Forgot that was the easiest scumtell

I never voted you and the other person that took it seriously (which I was trying to follow up on when you got hammered) was scum. Shrug.