Micro 914: CultD3 (Over)

[Farkran]

Hello there!

I see that salamence really wanted a rematch, lol. Good luck with that!

Also kerset you betrayed me i wished i could bribe you into giving me a nice ability but instead this is the very first time, in all of my mafia career, that i rolled VT. Even before joining this site, i always rolled PR, 3p or scum.

[Farkran]

Always the same movie lol

VOTE: shos is the scummiest for opportunism weight but i didn't like hectic either

Salamence is town in this game

[Farkran]

Always the same movie lol

VOTE: shos is the scummiest for opportunism weight but

i didn't like hectic either

Salamence is town in this game

Why though?

Tone of his post, was expecting exactly that. I have meta credit for salamence. Was also a mild RT to see who would pick up.

You are town too by the way

[Farkran]

Tone of his post, was expecting exactly that.

ELABORATE

I have recently played against scum!sala where he deathtunneled me first, then slipped about some game mechanics that i caught up and i got him lynched for that, so he swore some sort of vengeance on me. I expected him to resume it in this game, but he would probably have been over-aware if he were scum. I call him town.

[Farkran]

OH NO THE SCUM HAZ CAUGHT ME

SO YOU'RE NOT CLAIMING VT?

Yeah i'm vt

[Farkran]

Yeah i'm vt

O_o

WHY claim?

It was the correct thing to do at the time

[Farkran]

I have a feeling that this playerlist is mostly alts. Hectic me and salamence are the only mains

[Farkran]

I’m a jingle alt designed solely to keep my active ego and bookmark threads more readable.

And to please fakegod.

Dr. Drew is always cult leader, more votes please.

Hi jingle, i know your main but i have never played with you, glad to get a first time

[Farkran]

Kanna is more town than ever

Shos on the other hand still reeks of sulphur and eviscerated virgins, why am i the only one voting there?

[Farkran]

Hmm. Well, nolynch is most definitely an alt, can't recognize who is it though. Probably never played with him.

I'd like to hear more from you, i am about to believe that cult leader claim

[Farkran]

/in D3 cult

/out D3 cult

/In D3 Cult
According to rules, you can't vote no lynch!

I wonder whos alt am I.

Alas, don't know you, unless that one is also an alt.

[Farkran]

@Kerset the war to conquer pagetops is a cruel one. You will lose many battles.

[Farkran]

I'm kinda underwhelmed by salamence disappearing. If he was going to deathtunnel me, i would also expect useless spammy post to fight over the first place in the post count

[Farkran]

VOTE: no lynch

Hi yes, even though I'm totally not the creator of the setup, I can tell you your gimmick doesn't work. Y'see, not me totally specified "no-lynch" not "no lynch", therefore you can be lynched, sorry about that.

in b4 no-lynch replaces no lynch

[Farkran]

Also why tf was Fark at L-2 already?

What's wrong with that?

You put no lynch at L-2 a couple posts above.

[Farkran]

@fark Because the L-2 happened before page 3.

And why is that relevant? No lynch reached L-1 during page 3. What do you make of that?

[Farkran]

VOTE: Bingle

Hey there! This is my (second) game here on mafiascum, and am looking forward to this just as much as the first! Let me know if there's anything I can do for anybody right now.

You can post a readlist, and explain who do you think is cult, and why. That would be useful for me.

[Farkran]

My readlist so far:

TOWN
Kanna
Korina
Salamence
Nolynch
Bingle
Hectic
Poyzin
Shos
SCUM

Shos pings me as very sheepy and opportunistic so far. B
Poyzin introduction is by the manual "hi, i am scum and want to look town"

On the other hand i liked kanna, he can be town for now.

All reads are weak, non-detailed ones are even weaker.

[Farkran]

@Everyone please move out of RVS votes

Bingle, what's your updated opinion on shos and poyzin?

[Farkran]

FARKRAN

before we move on you NEED to clarify - WHY did you think it was a good idea to claim VT earlier?

i've liked your play other than that claim

Good motive to move out from rvs and start talking about something useful, reaction test to everyone who would pick it up. I liked kanna doing so, your reaction sounded lackluster but the fact that you insisted now looks solvy, so i think you are now >rand town for the time being.

I didn't like other people who ignored me, but among them, i liked korina tone. I'm particularly sus of poyzin and shos at the moment. Not really fond of Bingle either, but i'll allow him to speak more.

[Farkran]

I’m getting maybe low cult leader vibes from Fark cause on the outside, they seem quite townie, but some of their reads were kind of tmi imo and Poyzin is a newbie so I didn’t like that read of them

Which of my reads sounded TMI?

[Farkran]

Maybe the readlist? Could be just me but I’m struggling to find AI stuff so it seems weird how can already make a readlist

Check my meta

[Farkran]

I think it’s vaguely for the best if UTs claim D1. If we have a UT massclaim our EV shoots way up and there’s nothing scum can do to stop it. OTOH, if scum claims UT they will be found by any other or claim and both cultists have to claim.

I kinda support this in this setup. Already claimed non ut.

[Farkran]

I'd like to hear what korina has to say about it, being the best expert in cult -and this particular setup- here

[Farkran]

but I WANNA HEAR MORE FROM YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE AMAZING, POYZIN

Awww, you've inspired me! I'd recommend getting a better keyboard though so you don't accidentally hit the caps lock button as many times as you have. I'm getting shady vibes from "no lynch" the player, and the cult leader claim out of the gate left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, it obviously was a joke because you don't simply claim to be the leader of the anti-town faction. ...but that's the thing... For some reason I'm feeling that this was just a really risky scum play, to say that to appear as town by making such a blatantly false joke.

Somebody please talk some sense into me because this is definitely unreasonable... right?

It's not unplausible, but i am with hectic saying that is NAI. Don't you have any other read based on what happened so far?

[Farkran]

I think it’s vaguely for the best if UTs claim D1. If we have a UT massclaim our EV shoots way up and there’s nothing scum can do to stop it. OTOH, if scum claims UT they will be found by any other or claim and both cultists have to claim.

VOTE: Bingle
I think this is the first talk worthy thing in the game. Such claim would really be stupid for cult as that would put them in a 1v1 with a real UT. It makes all sorts of sense that if scum ever come to claim, they'll claim VT or a PR to draw PRs out or something. Therefore, this post is, most likely, coming from a cultist which is not the cult leader.

Sorry how is that post scum indicative for bingle? Please lead me to understand your train of thoughts.

From what i read here, you are voting bingle for assuming cult would counterclaim a claimed UT. Why would they? If UTs exist, counterclaiming them would give town MORE ICs rather than less, because an outed non-leader cult could be used as an anti-IC to lock cult into being unable to recruit more, since they are capped to 3 living cult players. Once the leader is found, then we can proceed to lynch cultists.

The difference between mafia and cult is that mafia cannot replace their ranks but have no limits on their ability to remove threats - cult can replace their ranks, but they are limited to 3 and therefore they can only remove threats if the town allows them to. Day 1 is the best day to apply this method, because the cult only has 1 available recruit to cast wifom on town. From day 2 onwards, it gets worse.

Tell me, shos, where is the scum intent in Bingle promoting such a strategy? Worst case scenario it would lead to a wifom-based gamestate, but it's not scum indicative.

[Farkran]

I'd like to hear what korina has to say about it, being the best expert in cult -and this particular setup- here

I don't think that Korina is in the playerpool.

I'm sure that NOT KORINA can give an equally insighful analysis

[Farkran]

no no no no
His point in claiming is to either force scum into d1 1v1 which is bad for them, since it's either leader or possibly a PR if I remember the setup correctly, or just...ignore them and allow them to avoid a mis-recruit which is obviously pro town. What I say is that clearly cult will not CC, and are far more likely to fakeclaim VT when they dakeclaim, so this just helps scum.
Worst case scenario is even supremely worse, where there is no UT and scum know this and THEY claim UT thus "conftowning" themselves until PRs die in the game when the setup becomes clearer.

I still don't understand how outing the UTs helps scum, even if everyone else claims VT. We get two ICs as opposed to... nothing? I would understand your concerns if cult weren't capped at 3 recruits, but... they are. Other PRs should never claim right now, i think we agree with that. UTs are different. Or why aren't they, in your opinion?

Anyway, that is a bad bad idea, and suggesting it helps scum, and since the leader wouldn't want so much attention, this is probably not him

So, uh... why are you voting bingle again? Not interested in defending him right now, i think he is still =rand leader, but i am trying to understand your train of thoughts. What would you do if you were a cult leader?

[Farkran]

Therefore, we mass claim not UT on DAY 2 to prevent that, rather than day 1.

There's no harm in waiting a day before doing so for the reasons I've already given.

Don't you think that massclaiming UTs on day 2 allows cult to counterclaim better? Suppose we do not claim d1, but instead we claim d2 (to reiterate: this is only about UTs, no other role should claim).

Player A: i am UT!
Player B: i am UT!
Player C: i am UT!
Player D: i am UT!

By day 2, cult will LIKELY have 3 members to work with, two of which are expendable. What do we do with those 4 claims? By doing that during day 1, we can control the damage done by wifom CCs. Either we do that d1, or we don't do that at all, imo. I support doing it though.

pedit: well, nevermind

[Farkran]

Also VOTE: poyzin

I don't think shos making setup spec is cult, even if he is probably wrong

[Farkran]

Updated readlist:

TOWN
Kanna
Hectic
Bingle
Shos
Korina
Salamence
Nolynch
Poyzin
SCUM

Moved Hectic, Bingle and Shos up for what looked like genuine setup spec. Setup spec by itself usually comes from town, debating on which is the best strategy is almost always TvT. I still like kanna the most.

Moved Salamence down for not contributing enough.

My current guess is that nolynch, poyzin or both can be used as solid wagon solves for today. The read on no lynch is mostly gut/tone based at this point, i... was pinged the wrong way by his interaction with the UTs argument. Poyzin on the other hand just looks like scum trying to skirt the gamestate until he can prey on a real wagon, i don't like that at all.

Waiting for korina.

[Farkran]

@korina

What else don't you like besides bingle being third place?

Also, on a first glance (with zero experience for this setup) i would think that you're wrong when saying that a non-UT claim paints a target on your back, and it does not surpass the benefit of having town ICs, but apparently there are no UTs so it makes no real difference right now.

[Farkran]

Setup spec by itself usually comes from town, debating on which is the best strategy is almost always TvT.

I disagree.
Mechanical discussions are the very easy for scum to engage with, while not moving the game forward. Mechanical talk is always NAI.

It isn't in my experience. By the way, you only engaged my logic rather than my reads - do you have any objection on those?

[Farkran]

Cult missing a recruit isn't really a big deal to them. They win the long game anyway. And let's be clear here: If we don't lynch cult today, tomorrow is LYLO.

Currently: 7v2, say we lynch town
Tomorrow: 5v3, cult is capped. Our lynch is irrelevant unless it's the leader
Day after: 4v3, lynch the leader or lose (shall i call this lylelo?)

By the way, i'd like to learn how do you analyze the gamestate and why does your analysis point to shos specifically.

From what i gathered in these 7 pages, i think shos and no lynch are pretty much coasting - whereas poyzin and salamence are lurking. All these slots are making no attempts at advancing a risky gamestate. Why did you single shos out of these four?

[Farkran]

Farkran

:I have already played with him one game under my alt and I am very paranoid of him. Too towny to be town. I need to check out scum games of his before making a read here.

I suppose you are not willing to tell me, or crumb to me who you are? From your tone and content i think you might come from the GIF jester game. Good for you to be paranoid of me.

By the way, it seems that we mostly agree in our reads, with a significant difference in kanna and, well, yourself. I'll check again.

Kanna, perhaps it's time you post a readlist

[Farkran]

Also i think korina is town and i'm maybe willing to work with him several pages from now - pretty much as soon as i gather enough info about poyzin

[Farkran]

Oh wait. Nolynch is egix.

[Farkran]

I'll get back to this tomorrow, will need to check something but 3 am here

[Farkran]

Oh wait. Nolynch is egix.

Uhh, definitely not after a quick ISO skim of Egix from my recent newbie with him.

I deduced Egix from the "we are dogs on the internet" reference + post 157. I checked Egix posts in the game we played together though and if this is egix he's way way way off meta, so... maybe it's not egix. Creature perhaps?

[Farkran]

@Nolynch are you willing to vote poyzin with me? I really don't like those kind of prodges

[Farkran]

I’m through page 8 and I’m liking Korina’s content. Personal reasons for voting for “no łynch” or no, it would not be wise for scum!Korina to show clear aggression towards another player. Admitting their bias and asking for time to calm down and reassess their reads wholisticly strikes me as passionate town that demonstrates self-awareness that they aren’t seeing the bigger picture at the time while making sure to return tomorrow with a clear head. Scum usually wouldn’t admit to having a personal bias for a lynch in my opinion, but not impossible.

So, we're now at page 10 and you chose to stop at page 8 to make this post, the only content in it being that you like korina for aggressively pushing a slot that you don't even consider scummy.

There are so many wrong things in this post...

1) why did you stop two pages short of a full catchup?
2) why are you applying your reasoning to korina only?
3) is your only read so far a minor tone-based townlean?
4) what do you make of the two people currently voting you?

[Farkran]

If you do not see why I am scumreading No Lynch following that post, you are 100% cult in my eyes. I am apparently scum for

randomly voting him at the start of the game.

Like cult would plan in their PT "Hey, I'm gonna RVS this guy and then go into actually hardcore scumreading them"

I can definitely follow a logic that lead you to scumread nolynch. I kinda agree, for different reasons than yours though. For me, the thing that pings me about nolynch is that he isn't putting enough weight in his reads, and does rather engage different subjects. I have seen some players doing it as town though, and there is still a chance he's pushing you for pressure - but kinda doing it wrong. I like you reacting like that, but again, this could still be a TvT, TvS and even SvS world i need to explore more.

[Farkran]

Ok, I'm going to try to explain this like you're five years old, since you don't understand this:

BEING ON L-1 DOES NOT EQUATE TO HAVING SCUM ON YOUR WAGON FOR A FACT. YOU CAN HAVE AN ALL-TOWN WAGON, OR A WAGON WITH SCUM BEING THE HAMMER VOTE. JUST BECAUSE YOU WERE ON L-1 AND NOT HAMMERED MEANS JACKSHIT.

Scum could've not been on for example. One scum could've been on, and realized it wasn't L-1. Both scum could've been on, but decided against it because it makes both of them obvious, etc.

These, on the other hand, are not good posts in response to that.

While it is true that neither scum nor town would have hammered a L-1 player, thus the sentence from nolynch is bad logic (but not inherently scummy, because it is consistent with what town!nolynch would think), you have failed to include the scenario where nolynch is scum and therefore no scum is on the wagon because the scum is being targeted by the wagon itself. This feels weird, given that you claim to be almost 100% confident nolynch is scum - your answer should have been "THAT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUM, YOU DUMBASS" or something like that.

I wonder if korina would be prone to scumslips like that. I'll take note of this.

[Farkran]

3) That is the only read I have thus far stated, yes. I don’t like talking about null reads, and the best argument I’ve read about a lynch candidate is Korina’s points on ”no łynch”.

This is not an excuse, this is simply admitting that I haven’t been very helpful in terms of reads as I don’t have any posts talking about my own. Hectic and Kanna I feel are town, but that isn’t helpful in itself if I don’t provide any evidence for my reasoning, which I haven’t yet done.

And why exactly are you not providing reasoning on Kanna and I being town? Even loose uncertain thoughts are fine.

This, please.

Also i don't really believe everyone besides those three are null for you. Content has been flowing through the last pages - even if you haven't determined the alignment of someone, you can't say they are completely null. There must be something that pinged you the right or the wrong way.

Poyzin as CL with Korina as cultist? Makes sense?

[Farkran]

@Farkran; why did you suggest poyzin CL and Korina cultist?

Because of ... everything i said in my ISO about poyzin, and post 258 for korina. I don't think korina is the CL, i agree that CL wouldn't be this flashy. But any other cultist can take a hit, and even if that particular post is just a slight, potential scumslip, it would be poor play to ignore such things. It's not like scum would come out and say "oh right, i scumslipped, i need to die now /vote myself". It's not like i scumlocked them either, i just feel i am onto something.

[Farkran]

If you wanna see Scum!Me, look at Newbie 1949. If you wanna know what I know to be Scum!Me, ask.

Might check that later, but i assume that's not a cult game (being a newbie and all), so there may be very different behaviors appearing in here. Also, being aware of -past- selfmeta makes it more NAI than it should.

Post 269 is nice - would you say this is the best that town!you could do in this game? This question is not meant to belittle your play so far, just asking if you are sticking to what you said in the aforementioned post: being the towniest possible to get recruited later.

[Farkran]

Yes. I am good in doing townreads, so I just do townreads and then lynch scum via POE.

That doesn't work at all in cult games, JSYK.

It should work on starting cultist and cult leader.
I have a different method which may be able to detect recruited.

Nope. Cult is actively looking to townbloc at the moment. That's the point of cult. Find the most towny people you can and work well with them.

Townblocking DOESN'T work in cult games, at all, which is like 70% of the reason cult games are so horrifically hard to win as town.

I agree generally speaking, but does not apply to d1. Also i'm not sure if the first cultist would act super towny - he needs to be viable as a lynch later -not obvscum, just viable- so being specifically null would be a nice asset.

[Farkran]

-snip-

I admit i am tunneling at this point, but why would you only consider Hectic and Kanna for that specific reasoning? I mean, even in your quotes they are mostly talking about me and my posts. How i am not included in that specific reasoning? I could see disagreement bias since i am pushing you, but i'd like to ask you what makes me less town than kanna and hectic from your POV if you assume i am pushing "player x" instead of "poyzin".

[Farkran]

My readlist so far

I take issue with this post.
1. because why would anyone really try to form a full readlist in p3 of D1 where half the people barely posted? Sorts of feels forced, even despite the last sentence
2. shos sheepy and opportunistic? Is this your first mafia game evar? is this forrealz?
3. "I liked kanna"? is that one of the detailed ones, really?

1. Why not, though? Where's the harm in producing more content rather than less? How is it forced? Also, check my meta [cit.]
2. Your first and only non-RVS vote was post 116, out of setup spec which you later submitted to. Would you call that independent and protown? We both know that early d1 you push weak things, because there are no strong things to begin with. This is true for you, as is for everyone.
3. I talked about kanna earlier

[Farkran]

Ebwop

If we have col A or C and row 3, then basically we just have to Lynch the leader and town can't lose?

If we lynch the CL d1, yes. If we lynch the CL later, technically town can be endgamed by having 2 cultists vs 2 UTs. I think. Actually the setup rules are ambiguous, they say "cult has to reach a majority", not "has to reach parity" which is the usual win condition for scum. I think it still works like that though.

[Farkran]

@Farkran; why did you suggest poyzin CL and Korina cultist?

Because of ... everything i said in my ISO about poyzin, and post 258 for korina. I don't think korina is the CL, i agree that CL wouldn't be this flashy. But any other cultist can take a hit, and even if that particular post is just a slight, potential scumslip, it would be poor play to ignore such things. It's not like scum would come out and say "oh right, i scumslipped, i need to die now /vote myself". It's not like i scumlocked them either, i just feel i am onto something.

Remind me what your reasons are for Poyzin because I ISO’d you and the main reasons I found were about inactivity and prodging. Why Poyzin instead of Sala? I also don’t understand your tunnel on them at all; i’m paranoid you’re targeting them in bad faith. Agree about Korina not being CL though

He's not scumlocked, but he's my best guess for CL right now (wrt poyzin). I want more content, i want him to produce stuff that he can be accountable for. Because right now he is the slot that i'd feel most comfortable with associating with a prominent scum role, given the mindsed and content displayed. He fits with a lowkey profile which is dodging responsibilities, going for consensus reads rather than producing his own, not trying to engage the gamestate, you know the drill. This is scum by the manual, and until proven wrong i think he's my best guess for CL in this game.

I wouldn't townlock anyone right now either, but i am much more willing to work with people like you, hectic and probably bingle for now. I would like to include korina, because i liked his early content, but honestly the experience level displayed and that specific post made me too much paranoid to trust his slot at the moment, so i will wait until i get more information. Shos feels a bit better than he did early in the game.

Wrt sala, i am... concerned, yes, but not particularly in a scummy way. I have meta with him, he was scum and i was town - in this game he's doing the exact opposite of what he was doing in the other. I am waiting for a couple specific events to happen before i try to push there, but right now i don't think he is cult leader.

[Farkran]

Therefore, we mass claim not UT on DAY 2 to prevent that, rather than day 1.

There's no harm in waiting a day before doing so for the reasons I've already given.

Don't you think that massclaiming UTs on day 2 allows cult to counterclaim better? Suppose we do not claim d1, but instead we claim d2 (to reiterate: this is only about UTs, no other role should claim).

Player A: i am UT!
Player B: i am UT!
Player C: i am UT!
Player D: i am UT!

By day 2, cult will LIKELY have 3 members to work with, two of which are expendable. What do we do with those 4 claims? By doing that during day 1, we can control the damage done by wifom CCs. Either we do that d1, or we don't do that at all, imo. I support doing it though.

pedit: well, nevermind

This post kinda gives me the hibbie-jibbies
Usually such possible abuse of the game is thought out by scum, and

this kinda looks like scum are trying to let scum know what should be done in that case

. Although, it DOES discuss a D2 action so they WILL have time to talk about it N1. I dunno, this setup spec seems far less interesting and might be a way to kill off time and look like you're putting effort into the game.

Let's leave falkran as nullscum for the while

Why do you do this when i just started feeling better about you?

Cult has daytalk. How does scum!farkran "try to let scum know what should be done" IN THE MAIN THREAD?

I mean... you seem to be forcing yourself to push on me by casting shade at every opportunity you get. This is just... a very bad, forced, reachy push on my slot.

Poyzin/shos? Would make sense with 284. Would make sense that cultist!shos tries mislynch me since i claimed VT and i would be a bad recruit for them.

[Farkran]

@mod: i didn't notice salamence has been way over his prod timer. Activity overview says more than 3 days.

[Farkran]

@Farkran;what do you think about No Lynch?

I forgot to answer this during catchup

Nolynch is... not entirely town, not entirely cultist, not entirely CL. He's not null in a literal sense, because i do have notes and thoughts about him, but i am trying to sort the interactions between him and poyzin/korina + shos now. Like, i think nolynch might be a relevant counterwagon to poyzin, but if i had to choose i'd choose to lynch poyzin

[Farkran]

I simply missed the daytalk thing. Assume I didn't know and reread that, it'll make much more sense lol

My issue with you now is that SOME paranoia and inquisitiveness makes sense and is a sane town trait. Trying to shade every post i make, on the other hand, is starting to look like you actually want to remove me at all costs, even when your reasoning has a wrong premise.

Even if you genuinely forgot about daytalk, why was your first thought about me trying to inform my partners on what to do? You seem to be inductively placing bad faith in my content, rather than deducing scumminess from it.

[Farkran]

Readlist v3

TOWN

Kanna
Hectic
Bingle

Korina
Salamence
Nolynch

Shos
Poyzin

SCUM

The only difference in placements from the previous readlist is shos moved back down to the scum area, but there is actually another difference - i am now confident enough on the green people that i will never lynch there today, and i strongly want to promote a lynch within the red people.

I feel there is a significant amount of agreement bias in pretty much all the presented reads so far, so i'd like to have a sanity check about the current gamestate. I have seen people taking hard stances (korina vs bingle and nolynch, bingle vs shos, hectic vs shos, farkran vs poyzin and now shos), and people who didn't - sometimes trying to form reads, sometimes not even that. I think it is time that everyone takes a stance and says who is his highest scumread, detailing his reasons. Or highest townreads and why you wouldn't lynch within them.

Personally i still have found no reason to remove my vote from poyzin, and the resistance displayed by slots such as shos makes me more confident about a red (purple?) flip there. I mean, i just read shos ISO and it seems that most of his content is based on either agreement bias or nothing at all. I had the impression he was doing better during the setup spec part several pages ago, but then he proceeded to shade both my previous readlist and my own setup-based strategy, in the meanwhile whiteknighting poyzin for ... no reason at all.

I think nolynch and one in {poyzin, shos} would be viable as the two main wagons for today - i will side with those voting the latter. If there is any objection to this procedure, please let me know why

[Farkran]

I still don't manage to recall why you scumread me, btw

1. The only stances you have taken are out of agreement/disagreement bias or consensus bias
2. Trying to inductively shade my posts is scummy

If you have any hard stance you wish to share with us, it is now the moment to do so. Apparently you have parked your vote on bingle for disagreeing on setup talk. Explain why your vote is still there, or move it where you think it's useful.

[Farkran]

Good. Now try to convince other people and let's see what comes out of that.

Besides, i think you are >rand non-CL cultist.

[Farkran]

Honestly don't know if scum or stupid by bow

Explain yourself to the class

We want to hear more

[Farkran]

@Bingle i did not understand your post

[Farkran]

@mod sorry if i insist but salamence has been away for more than 4 days now, and there are multiple people asking for content from the silent slots

[Farkran]

@mod sorry if i insist but salamence has been away for more than 4 days now, and there are multiple people asking for content from the silent slots

Salamence20 has been prodded already. I haven't prodded him exactly on 48 hours mark, which causes a delay. Rules require me to wait at least 48 hours

after user prod

, not 96 hours after last user post. I can't look for replacement yet. I am deeply sorry for inconvenience.

Sorry, i was used to 24 hours after prod. My mistake.

[Farkran]

I have not much to add about shos other than i don't think he's CL, but he might be covering the CL. I can still compromise on him if the deadline nears, but i see poyzin or even nolynch as higher CL equity.

[Farkran]

i don't think he's CL

Why not?

I think that, in a game where there are a fair quantity of newbies or at least recent join dates, people would be more inclined to play by the manual rather than subverting it. Cultist making himself viable for a (hopefully for him) later lynch makes sense, CL drawing full attention from all the most inquisitive slots makes... less sense. Wifom is king, as usual, and i won't rule out the possibility of shos being CL but i think he's <rand CL and >rand other cult.

[Farkran]

Also, how do you feel about my nl is twtbacl argument?

I don't think nolynch is too wolfy. He is average wolfy. Fits with CL, more than shos. But nolynch looks more town than both shos and poyzin, and i'd like to verify there first.

[Farkran]

I have not much to add about shos other than i don't think he's CL, but he might be covering the CL. I can still compromise on him if the deadline nears, but i see poyzin or even nolynch as higher CL equity.

Can we Lynch this please
Falkran keeps always calling people scum and then not voting them because they are not the cult leader. Possible cult PRs are not good lynches for D1? Put your money where your mouth is

I did this on two people, you and korina. Korina has redeemed himself later, so i'm off him for now. You could be cultist or cult PR. Nolynch could be CL.

But i am voting my highest CL read, aka poyzin. That's the correct play here, and suggesting i should switch to you is not convincing, especially after you waved on poyzin being "newbtown" and attacking the one who is voting him. Tunnel? Maybe. Reasons to think i am wrong? None.

[Farkran]

-snip-

I admit i am tunneling at this point, but why would you only consider Hectic and Kanna for that specific reasoning? I mean, even in your quotes they are mostly talking about me and my posts. How i am not included in that specific reasoning? I could see disagreement bias since i am pushing you, but i'd like to ask you what makes me less town than kanna and hectic from your POV if you assume i am pushing "player x" instead of "poyzin".

You’re probably town, but I don’t think I can make a proper read of your alignment based on your tunnel on me without it being impacted by my personal opinions about it. “No lynch” player is probably a cultist, but I’m not sure about if they are the cult leader.

Kind of curious if Kanna decides to say that they get “weak town” vibes off of my post that town read them; seems like Kanna wants to give me assurance that I’m “onto something” with my reads.

My vote isn’t really useful right now so I’m going to place it somewhere more useful.

VOTE: No łynch. This would be L-2.

Is nolynch your highest CL read? Are there any other? Have you got a lynchpool for today?

[Farkran]

@Obvious, please read the entire game and give me a tl;dr opinion of it. Also, please tell me your exact thoughts on Fark, shos, poyzin and NL.

Seconded. Those are the same names i'm interested about.

[Farkran]

WRT post 379

I can see how Korina could reach those conclusions, although to work with town!shos you must have a different solve in mind. Nolynch is clearly your highest scumread so far, but do you have anyone else in your lynchpool?

[Farkran]

Oh, hi blatant scum! I would... never have guessed who you were. At least not any time soon.

What's with obvious scum now, are you twins?

[Farkran]

I don't think obvious scum is cult though. Silly entrance, but not scummy. There is merit in what he suggested, although i do not agree with him.

[Farkran]

The biggest problem being 3A. Obviously this plan sucks for uncrecruitable townies (0-2 players) but other than that basically we can get everyone to win?

Conversely if we play conventionally, every single townie we mislynch is a townie that we're putting at risk of losing the game, when that's totally unnecessary.

Joint win is best for everyone except UTs right?

Guess why Bingle asked everyone to claim UT/ not UT.

Hmmm... you are not suggesting that Bingle thought about the same thing a newly replaced in player just laid out, unless they are partnered.

But if they are, why out this? It's obvious that, while being probably an optimal strategy for this specific setup, it's against the spirit of the game and for that reason alone at least half of the players (on average) would not agree to it. The only reasonable motive would be luring the cultist out. Maybe a poor motive, but trying does no harm.

[Farkran]

Leaving {Farkran, ObviousScum, Blatant Scum, Bingle, Poyzin, shos} as potential CLs.
Where {Farkran, Bingle, ObviousScum} will be pretty much unreadable. Amazing.

Is this a follow up to something? Kanna and Korina are out that list, why? I feel like i am missing something

[Farkran]

Wow, am I that forgettable?

Two-word name with segments on different lines (i'm on mobile), i counted 7 instead of 6, and those two came to mind first. I will ebwop-include you in my question

[Farkran]

I don't think any of this will change my reads, though. I am still wondering why shos is only scumreading me and why poyzin is not.

Why does cult!shos try to remove me instead of nolynch or poyzin? Why does town!shos has me as his highest CLread?

The only sense i can make of this is that cult!shos & co do not want to recruit a VT. It does not necessarily imply that poyzin is also cult, though... i believed it did, but actually pozyin is amazing lylo material whereas i am not. If i think this from a cult pov, i know who i would recruit and who i'd bring to lylo, and that would explain shos actions.

VOTE: shos let's try this route

[Farkran]

farkran would you say you're readable in your own view?

Maybe. Depends on game size and setup. I do believe i have a huge scumrange though, so i am proud to say i'm not easily readable. I would say that my strongest assets are anti-associatives and made up bullshit reads, because that's what town!me uses to scumhunt, so i focus on faking those. I think i might be weak at emotional display when rolling scum, but then again it depends on how i am pinged by people pushing me.

[Farkran]

Both featured daychat, and he expressed no surprise over this in either.

This is a lie, and I'm disappointed that none of you caught it considering I linked literally the post before him doing so in the next post.

This is credit for town!bingle, but... i think that's the kind of lie no one would bother verifying. I mean, you build a case against shos over a simple, specific fact - why would people doublecheck that? For instance, i just assumed it was true because there was no reason to lie about it. Turned out there was a reason. If anything though, i think shos of all people might have recalled differently than what bingle claimed, but then again that was a long time ago so... it's NAI even for shos.

[Farkran]

Can we kill Blatant today and Obvious tomorrow? I really don't like their posting thus far. It feels like to me they're actively playing jestery. I don't know if it's indicative of CL or not, but I'd like to kill them tomorrow.

In other words: let's policy lynch two players because of their playstyle. Yes, they don't have the highest CL credit of all players and yes, we likely lose if neither of them is CL, but anyway, let's do it!

I don't like this defense though. It's an implied shade against korina for "not believing you have the highest CL credit". Where did you deduce that you do not have the highest CL credit from korina POV? He just said that you are acting jestery and he wants you dead. How does this imply you are not the highest CL credit for him?

[Farkran]

It was two months ago, my first game onsite after the hiatus. You can be SURE that scum-me would throw it back in his face with a big I TOLD YOU SO if this was the case. But I'm not surprised that you don't let facts disturb you

I think any!shos would have forgot about his own specific reaction after two months, otherwise you would have answered from memory, not from checking your posts in that game. And if you forgot your reaction, you probably wouldn't check because you assume there's no reason for bingle to lie. This is valid for any!shos and more generally for everyone, i don't see a shos who checks if bingle lied about that - it's an easily verifiable lie, so i would think most people would just assume it's true, and work from there. Which, for instance, is exactly what you did - proceed to defend yourself instead of checking. But again, even town!shos would have done that.

[Farkran]

I don't know if it's indicative of CL or not

Yeah. Where does it say that it ISN'T indicative of CL?

[Farkran]

I have my personal reasons for wanting to lynch those being checked by cop/tracker

I can't follow this reasoning.

If a cop check returns cult, we should lynch there. If it returns town, we should never lynch there before the CL. Likewise, if a tracker check returns any action, we should lynch there. If it returns no action, we should never lynch there before the CL.

Once the CL is gone we can go back to those people on account of them having been recruited (does cop check happen before or after cult recruitment in night action order?), but not before.

That said, none of this is a good reason to give blatant scum a free pass, it's just more strategy speculation which has nothing to do with today's lynch - however, acting jestery today is completely unrelated to how we address cop/tracker results.

[Farkran]

I have my personal reasons for wanting to lynch those being checked by cop/tracker

I can't follow this reasoning.

If a cop check returns cult, we should lynch there. If it returns town, we should never lynch there before the CL. Likewise, if a tracker check returns any action, we should lynch there. If it returns no action, we should never lynch there before the CL.

Once the CL is gone we can go back to those people on account of them having been recruited (does cop check happen before or after cult recruitment in night action order?), but not before.

That said, none of this is a good reason to give blatant scum a free pass, it's just more strategy speculation which has nothing to do with today's lynch - however, acting jestery today is completely unrelated to how we address cop/tracker results.

Actually tracker is just softconf due to CL's option not to recruit for the night, but cop is always hardconf.

[Farkran]

Also i don't see shos/korina as currently aligned, and certainly neither of them is anywhere near townlock worthy. I also dislike that korina is scumreading poyzin but willing to be on the same wagon as him, so i'm not happy to join there today - Poyzin voting BS and BS voting poyzin is awkward to me and i'd like to check how that will roll out first, i'm fairly confident one of the two wagons is on cult, but i'd rather flip poyzin first due to how the game evolved so far. I will be more content on lynching BS if poyzin flips town.

Shos is getting some resistance as a wagon but not really much (mostly from korina though, and i already said i think they are disaligned), i can easily see us compromising on him and that's not a good sign in this gamestate, so i'm back to VOTE: poyzin

[Farkran]

I'm scumreading poyzin because I don't remember them posting anything recently. I've also stated numerous times that I'm not budging off of Blatant. I don't care who else is on Blatant's wagon, I want him dead.

Ok. I'm fine as having BS as one of today's wagons. The other should be poyzin.

Also, the whole personal reason thing is me thinking too fast and typing too slow. I don't remember my exact phrasing, but it simplifies down to "I want to lynch Blatant and have cop/tracker check Obvious"

This makes more sense. I could apply the same reasoning to poyzin/BS though, i don't think OS is checkworthy. I have meta reasons to think salamence wasn't cult, on which i might be wrong but not willing to include him in today's lynchpool or checkpool

[Farkran]

I think kanna reads make sense from a town perspective, she hasn't been sheeping much besides shos. I would much rather believe scum!kanna gives in against me, BS and/or poyzin but she didn't so i'm still townreading her. Shos has been scummy lately, there's no way around that. Might reconsider kanna if poyzin is scum

Bingle is less readable than others but i think he's town. Same for korina, but slightly less town.

Hectic is town for post content, same as kanna

OS is off my radar for today, will resume later on a wrong flip in my scumreads

My lynchpool is unchanged at poyzin, shos, BS. The more time passes, the more i'm sold on pozyin being caught scum. I think town would get mad for being miswagoned at this point, not disappear completely

[Farkran]

Forgive my ignorance, can anyone explain to me what a chainsaw defense is?

[Farkran]

Hm. If i believe poyzin, and i think i do unless a counterclaim pops up, what does this mean for the others?

Shos, tmi or genuine townread? (Wrt poyzin i mean)
I don't know.

Kanna, same as shos... but i can't read kanna as scum today, it's beyond me.

BS, pocketing me? Maybe. Re-reading his ISO i think that his logic around hammering and VCA in his wagon (post 224) made sense though, and it's similar to how i would act (and have acted in the past) as town.

Hectic and OS are unchanged from this development i guess

Bingle and korina are going to fall greatly from my grace. Maybe bingle deserves more credit to his scumrange and i may have been fooled by good logic and agreement bias?

Adjusting my lynchpool to {bingle > shos > BS = korina} in that specific order

VOTE: bingle

[Farkran]

Korina can't be culted tonight, poyzin can.

Korina has only 1 relevant investigation to make, after which he can no longer be accountable.

With these claims we never lynch poyzin or korina until we get the CL.

Bingle, shos and BS remaining in my lynchpool. Why bingle over any of them... cult equity is there in all three, and we probably lynch all three. The game has now turned into "pick 3 VTs you can trust and lynch the rest". I pick hectic, kanna and OS.

[Farkran]

D4 actually is when I'm irrelevant.
N1: Poyzin targets me, I target shos/BS, Cult recruit Poyzin.
N2: Poyzin culted, I target Poyzin,

cult cannot recruit because they're at 3

N3: I target someone, Cult targets me.

You're useless starting tomorrow.

N1 cult recruits poyzin. CL no longer takes action as they are capped, so your results are only relevant on rolecop (useless, we have already claimed).

The next action the CL takes, assuming we lynch cult, is recruiting you. Even if your investigation targets him, you won't tell us.

[Farkran]

Actually, D2, we need to lynch Poyzin, otherwise we get technically get endgamed D3.

Again, no, unless we also lynch cult today.

Lynching cult when they are 3 just means they replace their third member with another one. The correct play is hard-ignore poyzin starting tomorrow and hard-ignore you as soon as we lynch the rolecop (if we do).

When we lynch the CL, then we autolynch poyzin.

[Farkran]

I mean revealing does guarantee that we lose both PRs back to back n1-n2 so it's still a bit of a ? play but whatever

game's probably make or break by day 3 anyway so it might not really matter though

OS - Korina - poyz

CL and culted inside: [Farkran, BS, Hectic, Bingle, Kanna, shos]

nolynch/bs feels like someone who recognizes this setup is a cult game and spent the beginning screwing around, which feels townie to me

Hectic's early capslock posts don't really feel like a CL trying to slip under the radar

I thought 459 felt like a town reaction to gamestate personally but this read might be only ~so-so, I can revisit this after a review tonight

I was going to finish my thoughts on this list but I ran out of time and I'll be on a diff computer later so I'm just gonna post it before its lost

Implying CL is within {bingle, fark, shos}. What's your up to date analysis on these three?

[Farkran]

Out of curiosity, If shos is town, who is my theoretical partner?

I know you didn't ask me, but this is a gross theory to pull now. You know what would be a good reason to gambit on shos about something that nobody would really check? Distancing. Discussing this with shos in your PT would make sure his reaction is appropriate, and immediately gives shos a reason to 180° his read on you while he was scumreading you.

Bingle/shos as a team makes sense considering the skill level involved.

To answer your question though, if shos is town and Bingle is cult i think BS or OS are the most likely to be Bingle's partners.

Pedit: eh... paranoia kicked in now, but i think we just lynch both rather than asking the question

[Farkran]

Pedit: eh... paranoia kicked in now, but i think we just lynch both rather than asking the question

If you lynch me never lynch shos.

Please lead me to understand why on a case-by-case basis:

1) You flip town
2) You flip CL
3) You flip non-CL cult

[Farkran]

We have time, although it's 1.10 am here so i'll probably read tomorrow.

UNVOTE: i want to hear bingle first but i still want to lynch him rn

[Farkran]

I flip town, and everything I've just said becomes known to be trustworthy.
I flip non CL, and everything I've just said becomes known to be trustworthy because I'll flip as cultist, not rolecop.
If I flipped CL you would disregard that post anyway and probably lynch shos, which would still probably be a mislynch because I'm much better at setting up false associatives than that.
If I flipped Rolecop, sure, shos would probably be the best lynch, followed by you and BLA in that order.

I'm arguing from solely that, because if you lynch me, you will know I was town today.

Oh well this was way sooner than i would expect lol.

By the way, if you flip town it means your gambit was real, not that it was successful. Scum!shos has no reason to scumread town!jingle over anyone else

You say you would flip non-CL, non-Rolecop cultist, how is this possible without a counterclaim on korina and poyzin? Town PRs would be throwing if this was true

If you flip CL... makes a lot of sense that shos would suddenly townread you instead of bussing.

I mean this is not a lock-associative for you and shos, but i wouldn't see it as a lock-disalign either?

A casual gamestate read is enough to see I'm not a CL though.

Ngl i might be dense, being late irl might not help my cause, but i don't see why you would assume what you said and in particular i don't see why this would place you above kanna who is your highest scumread.

[Farkran]

You say you would flip non-CL, non-Rolecop cultist, how is this possible without a counterclaim on korina and poyzin? Town PRs would be throwing if this was true

If I am recruited and flip on a later day as a cultist, it would be clear from my flip that I was recruited and my arguments today came from town me, which is obviously the point of that line.

Oh, i only assumed that question on a flip today, not on a later day. I don't care about later day theories because previous flips will greatly influence my reads then

[Farkran]

By the way, if you flip town it means your gambit was real, not that it was successful. Scum!shos has no reason to scumread town!jingle over anyone else

Yeah... Post 609. I've explained why shos is my strongest non mechtown read. At length

Can't see anything in there that couldn't be coached or agreed upon in a PT though. The fact is that shos got an escape route from scumreading you from a gambit that -imo- could only be caught by shos himself whereas any other town would just assume it was true, which incidentally is one of the reasons why you are scumreading kanna, am i correct? Wrt her sheeping you, etc (can't quote from mobile). I am much more inclined to believe in a chainsaw defense (love learning new words) than you independently townreading shos and scumreading kanna. I mean, i made the exact same mistake regarding your gambit but you are only scumreading me now, because of a potential associative to kanna and maybe out of omgus, rather than scumreading me independently because i reacted the same way as kanna did.

Ngl i might be dense, being late irl might not help my cause, but i don't see why you would assume what you said and in particular i don't see why this would place you above kanna who is your highest scumread.

Why do you townread Kanna? Have you ever explained it, or is it just tone? Cause I see a lot of handwaivy reasons for townreading Kanna and no real substance to any of them. Which is exactly what I'd expect from cult trying to keep CL above the water.

Compare to me. Everyone who townreads me is quick to give exact reasons why, and they're always thought out, even your shitty "He was setup speccing" read. Even with that, every time it even looks like I might get lynched, people crawl out from the woodwork for reasons like "Maybe I townbinned him too early" and "I just really want to lynch Bingle".

Kori is at least honest about it (and wants to lynch me because he knows my setup spec means he doesn't win as cult at this point), but it should be VERY clear that in a situation where I am probably the de facto deadline lynch because we simply don't have time to pivot, I'm spending all of my time trying to solve the game for after I die. I'm tearing down literally all of the towncred Kanna has but doesn't deserve, and pointing out the weird behavior surrounding that slot. I get that you're probably scum with Kanna though, so there is that.

Yeah, kanna read is tone and content based. So is hectic. So were you earlier, and korina, poyzin, shos and BS. What else should it be? I had a different read on salamence because meta and now on poyzin and korina because claims, but that's it. I have no flips, no NKA and very little VCA to work with. I chose my highest townreads as kanna, hectic and OS (for now), removed korina and pozyin, then picked the highest CL equity in the remaining people.

[Farkran]

As a self defense post, for a change, why does CL me stick my neck out for all of shos, nl, blatant, Fark and Obv? If one of them is cult leader under pressure, that makes some sense at least, but if none of them is CL because I am, why would I as the single role who is most incentivized to not have controversial reads make as many waves as possible? Why do I go after Kanna, who is probably the most universally townread slot if I'm trying to duck attention?

Why do I retract my case on shos when no one is going to call me out on it if shos is town and I'm scum of any color, when it would be insanely easy to just let it go through and point to shos saying that the case was solid if someone questions me about it later?

The assumption that I'm scum comes from the assumption that I'm simultaneously terrible at scum and masterfully manipulating the thread, which is all sorts of cogdis. And sure, you could say that I did this all as WIFOM to bring up this very point, but why would I when it would simply be easier to not do all of this and reach the same result?

You go against kanna because that's the slot you would have the hardest time lynching and you cannot recruit there? I must admit though, that if you are CL you'd probably WANT to bus your partner right now, so ... meh, this is twisted. The problem isn't that you wouldn't vote town!shos, it's that you should want to vote cult!shos in this gamestate. And you singlehandedly had the best setup spec and logic so far, no way you wouldn't notice this.

You and shos are likely really disaligned, thinking more about it ...

[Farkran]

Ok, i'm almost literally losing my mind to paranoia right now, but i think the possibilities are something like this - left name is CL, right name is dumpworthy cult

Bingle/kanna
Hectic/bingle
OS/bingle
BS/shos

I will wait for people who haven't posted relevantly after the claims though (kanna and shos mainly). And i will sleep over it, good night

[Farkran]

Nvm BS/shos, i misread their last post dates

[Farkran]

Ok, i'm almost literally losing my mind to paranoia right now, but i think the possibilities are something like this - left name is CL, right name is dumpworthy cult

Bingle/kanna
Hectic/bingle
OS/bingle

BS/shos

I will wait for people who haven't posted relevantly after the claims though (kanna and shos mainly). And i will sleep over it, good night

I'll explain myself about these couples. I posted in a hurry because it was late, but after post 624 i realized that, now that the PRs have claimed, the non-CL cult is dead weight and therefore the CL would want to dump them to avoid being capped.

After sleeping it over though, it occurred to me that it isn't necessarily true. Right now there are two hidden cultists, and poyzin will probably added to their ranks, making it 2 hidden + 1 treestump. If we lynch the CL, we can immediately lynch the treestump, but one hidden cult remains.
If the CL dumps their current partner, they can recruit korina, but that would make it 1 hidden cultist + 2 treestumps, which is... worse. Korina will just be useless after poyzin is recruited, so there's no need to recruit him too in a hurry.

Those couples were based on the wrong premise that the CL would bus their partner - if you notice, the couples are potential CL/his highest scumread. I thought it made sense, but it really doesn't. I was tired.

[Farkran]

Ok, I’m just gonna be honest here; bullet points cause I’m tired.

1. I think it’s Bingle/Farkran; Farkran is CL, Bingle is cultist
2. Bingle’s “gambit” was probably to make a fake case and push whoever who bit, what he didn’t account for imo is he needed to have confidence shos is town BEFORE pulling the gambit and I’m not sure why he would be confident unless he was cult
3. shos is scummy but if I’m right, Bingle tmi’d him as town
4. Rn, bingle knows there’s a high chance he’s going down so he’s pushing Farkran
5. notice how bingle tried to tie me to Farkran by saying if I flip scum, it’s Farkran? I’m not flipping scum so if you decide to lynch me, it’s supposed to look good for Farkran
6. Farkran’s latest combos don’t make sense but I think the main takeaway is just to link me and bingle for if he flips scum (I think he will)

7. Furthermore, I do think I didn’t really deserve a TR early on in the game, mainly because I didn’t really do that much, so Farkran’s early TR on me felt weird, almost appeasement because I wasn’t TRing them. Farkran has been my secret SR all along.

8. Also now that we know Poyzin is town, that push on him by Farkran was bad imo; I still have no idea why he tunnelled him apart from inactivity and it seemed easy.

You are wrong on many accounts here, i'll explain every instance:

1) i'm not aligned with bingle and i'm not CL. You wouldn't be able to confirm this, but it's your first mistake in your post.
2) bingle's gambit is bad, but for reasons opposite to what you said: it was supposed to be a test for shos, which he "passed", and bingle pushed you for biting, but not me, who also bit. The gambit was badly orchestrated but the push wasn't random - it was aimed against you specifically and i have yet to know why.
3) I thought bingle/shos were disaligned because of the wrong premise i explained in the post above this, but after scratching it it's still possible that the gambit was distancing between bingle and shos. I would never see that as town TMI though.
4) He is voting you as his highest scumread. In your reasoning, he'd be voting me.
5) It doesn't work like that, because if Bingle flips first and is cult, his words will be pointless. I'm not looking good when cult said i would be looking good.
6) This could have been correct, but i retract those combos. They are nonsense after putting some thought into them.
7) Reread your ISO and compare it to mine or hectic's. I am townreading you because you act the same as i would act as town. I don't think i am wrong.
8) Poyzin was scum by the manual. Even he himself admitted to it. Now i could see you and shos townleaning him out of disagreement bias for my slot, but that's the ONLY reason you could townlean him for.

If you don't know what disagreement bias is, it would be assuming that your scumread's reads are inherently made in bad faith and therefore wrong, despite having no independent basis to say they are wrong. You should only do this once your scumread has correctly flipped scum, never before. That being said, agreement/disagreement bias is probably THE single most common mistake that mafia players do, including me.

[Farkran]

Also kerset you betrayed me i wished i could bribe you into giving me a nice ability but instead this is the very first time, in all of my mafia career, that i rolled VT. Even before joining this site, i always rolled PR, 3p or scum.

I think the last time I saw a big deal being made in OP about being VT the slot flipped scum but I was kinda thinking CL might not open exactly like this? It's kinda anti-town in a way that draws attention isn't it?

Of course I still don't know why you'd claim in your op, unless of course you're claiming

M a f i a G o o n

which is the best roleclaim of all

I don't think it was antitown anyways, as long as i am the only one doing so. By claiming VT i ensured that we wouldn't stay in RVS for years (i hate rvs) and that i could gauge people's reactions about it - cult would be forced to lynch me because i am a bad recruit for them. That's the main reason why i am scumreading shos, who is the only slot who pushed me hard so far. The others have only expressed paranoia, which is sane and more town indicative than hardpushing.

[Farkran]

So... after my morning catchup, i still think bingle and shos are the most likely to flip CL or at least cult. I am still convinced we lynch both.

VOTE: bingle this first

[Farkran]

Catching up... what the hell happened to this game while i was at work?

[Farkran]

I’m the Town Rolestopper and I was trying to not attract too much attention. That didn’t work out well.

This is a false claim, I officially CC this
VOTE: Poyzin

Uh... i don't think i believe this counterclaim to be true. Korina claimed tracker and nobody else said anything until you pop up and claim FN, right after Bingle seems to be today's lynch? What are the chances that cult!poyzin claims rolestopper and only korina steps up to CONFIRM it rather than CC him.

I'll elaborate: if poyzin claim was false, the rest of the town still contains 2 PR. 8 people could step up and counterclaim him by being Jailkeeper, Friendly Neighbor or Rolestopper. Instead, everyone except shos and BS posted itt with korina confirming poyzin role and nothing else. The chances of shos being sincere are extremely low, or poyzin has been extremely lucky.

[Farkran]

Adjusting my lynchpool to {bingle > shos > BS = korina} in that specific order

VOTE: bingle

I know you are scumreading me and I am scumreading you and stuff, but have you actually *READ* the thing that bingle did trying to sort me? If you did, could you please summarize it for me, ya know, just to show? and then explain how the fuck do you think bingle is still

town

?

Is this a panicslip or?

Besides, even if it wasn't a panicslip, i don't understand why town!you would be so strong on believing bingle is town. I, for instance, would believe that jingle scumrange is huge after such a play. At the very least he has proven himself as a good liar, because the most prominent thing that his gambit demonstrated is that people would believe a very simple and obvious lie as long as there is no reason to doubt it. And, as a result, you conveniently stopped scumreading him.

[Farkran]

Sh0s is not the CL, no reason for him to CC someone as CL while Bingle was the lynch today. Bingle as the CL and sh0s as cultist just went up massively. Sh0s CCing to get himself/Poyzin lynched instead of Bingle could be a last ditch effort to save his CL.

This is the absolute truth of that matter.

If sh0s speaks the truth, Poyzin+Farkran is also a possibility given how Poyzin gave Farkran so much towncred when he claimed.

Technically, yes. If shos is sincere and poyzin is lying though, there are a lot of people to cross-examine, starting with kanna. I really don't think poyzin is the liar here though, which also makes town!kanna more plausible.

[Farkran]

We have a confirmed scum in {shos, poyzin}. We also have a confirmed town in that.
I am confirmed tracker, and it's impossible for me to not be tracker. Shos CC'd Poyzin, not me. Everyone has more or less posted since I've claimed Tracker. The chance to CC that has passed; therefore, I am confirmed tracker.

The setup is either B1 or B3.

Pedit: Hectic, let's do this: Lynch shos, I check Bingle.

Uhm... this might make sense, or maybe not. I'll publicly run some math to see if i get to something useful and you can make a sanity check.

A) we lynch shos, flips town. Poyzin is cult. Korina gets culted, his results are useless, we are left with 3 cultists being: 1 hidden, 1 conf!cult which we don't know if CL or rolecop, and 1 cult treestump. Chances for Bingle to be a CL decrease greatly. Tomorrow we likely lynch poyzin on the offchance he is CL - if he isn't, we enter d3 4v3 lylo with: 1 hidden CL, 1 hidden cultist, 1 cult treestump. Not a very good scenario.

B) we lynch shos, flips cult. Poyzin is a town rolestopper who will get culted but can save Korina. In this case, Korina gets exactly ONE useful investigation before being culted n2. D2 we have 1 hidden CL and 1 cult treestump. We should never lynch the treestump, so we will just aim at the hidden CL again. It's better than case A, but still not optimal play.

I think lynching shos is inefficient and we should still aim for the CL today, which is either Poyzin or Bingle.

[Farkran]

shos - Neighbor x poy - Rolestopper ~ they are very likely not CL
Not Korina - Tracker

Shos didn't hammer Bingle while in L-1 and CCed with Bingle being L-1.

I'm going to assume everyone's posted since claims, but if you have a CC do so now.

...yeah.

I mean, CL!poyzin would need to claim if he is being wagoned, but he wasn't even L-1 when he did, and the chances that within 6 people who posted after his claim there is only one CONFIRM instead of two possible CCs, compared to shos who steps up after Bingle gets at L-1 are just abysmal.

[Farkran]

VOTE: Kanna
Won't be here around DL so I will leave her as a potential wagon.
I think Bingle is town here. I am not sure since I have never played scum against him, but enough to consider wagoning someone else.
Don't lynch shos nor poy today.
Korina track whoever you think is CL.

Uhm... why doesn't cult!shos hammer bingle in this scenario?

And if you assume shos is town -therefore poyzin is scum- why isn't poyzin CL? A wagoned CL still needs to claim, having his partner claim won't get him anywhere.

[Farkran]

Was poyzin at L-1 when he claimed or no?

No, L-2 from Farkran, Bingle, BS.

[Farkran]

By the way, @everyone who thinks poyzin is the likely liar here

Could you explain to me the sheer chances that cult!poyzin claims rolestopper and out of 2 potential counterclaims in 6 people, no one steps up to CC him and instead gets a confirm, then SUDDENLY A CC POPS UP WHEN BINGLE IS AT L-1?

[Farkran]

By the way, @everyone who thinks poyzin is the likely liar here

Could you explain to me the sheer chances that cult!poyzin claims rolestopper and out of 2 potential counterclaims in 6 people, no one steps up to CC him and instead gets a confirm, then SUDDENLY A CC POPS UP WHEN BINGLE IS AT L-1?

Just tell me how likely it is. How fucking lucky would poyzin have been to get
1. A role which would be plausible with korina role
2. 6 people to post itt without anyone counterclaiming
3. A counterclaim popping up ONLY when bingle is at L-1

And compare it to how convenient it is for the bingle/shos team to do that.

[Farkran]

Farkran: sh0s claimed Freindly neighbour, Korina is mechanically confirmed tracker. One of Poyzin/sh0s is lying. I think Poyzin's a lot more likely to be telling the truth as his rolestopper claim is very risky as scum for reasons I gave earlier. Sh0s CCing as scum likely means he's trying to protect Bangle who was on L-1 at the time. That's the summary and my thoughts on it, mostly.

It's not just that. Poyzin claimed first, so he wouldn't know who the other roles are. This means he could be counterclaimed by: another rolestopper, FN or jailkeeper. None of this happened - instead, he got a confirm from korina.

Moreover, he could have been counterclaimed IMMEDIATELY by a real FN or Rolestopper. None of this happened. The counterclaim arrived only MUCH later, by the 7th player posting itt after Poyzin claim, conveniently when Bingle got to L-1.

[Farkran]

By the way, @everyone who thinks poyzin is the likely liar here

Could you explain to me the sheer chances that cult!poyzin claims rolestopper and out of 2 potential counterclaims in 6 people, no one steps up to CC him and instead gets a confirm, then SUDDENLY A CC POPS UP WHEN BINGLE IS AT L-1?

Just tell me how likely it is. How fucking lucky would poyzin have been to get
1. A role which would be plausible with korina role
2. 6 people to post itt without anyone counterclaiming
3. A counterclaim popping up ONLY when bingle is at L-1

And compare it to how convenient it is for the bingle/shos team to do that.

1) Very likely. I literally crumbed/stated I was going to watch BS. Plus Cult knows it's B-Column, since they have Rolecop.
2) Considering they're aiming for only one person to CC, it's debatable considering they know I won't be CCing it. I'd be confirming it.
3) Shos's activity site-wide has been low, so I'd believe shos only started reading the game again today.

Korina. I understand you think your best chances are to win with cult, but really the optimal play for you is trying to lynch the CL today. Stop playing anti-town. The chances that Poyzin found out your crumb are very low and you know it - besides, point 3 is just grasping because the chances of a lurker being the correct counterclaim to poyzin were only 2/8. Anyone else would have counterclaimed poyzin immediately.

[Farkran]

At the very least, I and OS (704) did not catch it. It doesn't seem like anyone else caught it. Why would you assume Poyzin did? And then there's still point 3.

[Farkran]

Agreed. L-2 i think?

[Farkran]

@Shos, you're also on me tonight.

No you aren't. If you are a true FN, korina is culted n1.

[Farkran]

It's 11 hours to deadline. Any vote not aimed at lynching the CL is wasted, otherwise please enlighten me on why 736 is wrong.

Up to you to vote your highest CL candidate, but Korina can't be CL and Shos is the least likely to be CL among the others.

[Farkran]

The problem with games with cult as the only scum faction is that so many people will play for cult win condition even when they aren't cult.

The setup should probably be adjusted with the addition of a SK in Micro, and/or a mafia faction in larger games. Some calculations, simulations etc should be run before getting to a proper setup, but i think it's fairly evident that even if the setup is balanced in a vacuum, it's wrong that so many people are trying to break it by playing against their current wincon.

[Farkran]

It's 11 hours to deadline. Any vote not aimed at lynching the CL is wasted, otherwise please enlighten me on why 736 is wrong.

Up to you to vote your highest CL candidate, but Korina can't be CL and Shos is the least likely to be CL among the others.

Bingle (with shos) focused on pushing Kanna instead of some easier target (me for example) -> shos is not cultist + Bingle CL (1)
Shos could hammer Bingle -> shos is not cultist + Bingle town (2)
(1)+(2) shos is not cultist (3)
Poy is very likely town because of that claim -> shos is cultist or CL (4)
(3)+(4) shos is CL.

1) Bingle was pushing poyzin, makes sense that cult!shos aligned with bingle pushes elsewhere. Poyzin never reached L-1, no quickhammers to make for cultist!shos.
2) Only true if shos is town, doesn't necessarily mean Bingle is also town - besides, cultist!shos does not hammer CL!bingle either
3) Wrong premise, wrong conclusion
4) if shos is cultist, the chances he does not hammer town!bingle are veeeeery little

1+2+3+4 = shos is likely cultist, never CL - the only two cases where bingle is not CL are A. shos is town, poyzin is lying, etc; B. cultist!shos is fooling around with the town. Both these have little chance to be true.

[Farkran]

2 am here, i'm going to sleep and i probably won't be around for deadline.

Votes outside of bingle and poyzin are dumb. And honestly votes on poyzin are dumb as well.

pedit #800: poyz is in your lynchpool, true that you were voting kanna, but the main point regarding BS option 1 is that there were no quickhammers to make, therefore townreading shos out of that is a wrong premise.

[Farkran]

Option 1. Poyzin was an extremely lucky liar
Option 2. Shos orchestrated the plan to lynch twice

Either way, both lynches will likely land on cult today. Poyzin still has the highest CL equity of the two.

VOTE: poyzin

[Farkran]

I'm only interested in what korina has to say, to be honest - and that will hardly change today's lynch. The way this game evolved in d1 means our only chance to win this is to lynch poyzin.

Still, korina should speak.

[Farkran]

ok so no one got a FN message

also lynching cult rolecop is the #1 way to lose this game so

prefer Hectic for CL but Farkran's argument here is game-losing and it needs to stop

Explain how poyzin is off the hook as a CL candidate?

[Farkran]

^Why would he gamble like that? I guess it could be big brain play but that's not very likely.

What would CL getting wagoned do, in your opinion?

P.S; I think CL is Farkran

Who's my partner?

[Farkran]

I think the CL, which right now I'm inclined to think is Hectic > Fark, started with poy and recruited sho last night

but idk kinda feel like the way this day opened there's a chance I'm wrong on hec

it also seems like sho probably sent the FN to the CL by accident which is why no result is being claimed

Ok, say you think Fark/poyz or Hectic/poyz. Why is poyz the subordinate in both cases?

Also, same question as i asked kanna: what would a wagoned CL do, in your opinion?

[Farkran]

because outing PRs is the point of his roleclaim and there's no point for him to do that if he's CL

Also, same question as i asked kanna: what would a wagoned CL do, in your opinion?

[Farkran]

He was at l-4

there's no real point for him to force himself into a cross claim unless he's outing the power structure of the town

He was L-2 with consensus from korina. Read again 508+515+516+528. He claimed in 557.

[Farkran]

okay why does CL set himself up for a 1v1 mechanical cross-claim unless he's playing 4D chess and wants to come off as a jestery culted?

You know, the alternative was getting lynched?

Besides, i could get either Hectic/poyz or Fark/poyz as a solve from your POV, but i don't see how you are considering both. I was pushing poyzin, hectic wasn't. You are reading the game inductively, building a solve instead of trying to find it.

[Farkran]

The only FACTS we have so far are:

1) Korina is a tracker
2) Poyzin and shos were disaligned d1

There is no tracker in column C so we have to be in a column where there are 2 PRs. We have 2 claims and 1 counterclaim, therefore the not-counterclaimed PR must be true (korina), and the other two cannot be BOTH lying, otherwise we're missing a PR.

Out of shos vs poyzin, the only CL that makes logical sense is poyzin, because he was risking the lynch, shos wasn't. Shos is the one who might be playing the jestery CL, or a cultist wifoming to get a lynch on bingle followed by a lynch on poyzin - but if poyzin was sincere, he must have been recruited last night, there's no need to gambit today's lynch when they could just replace him. I am voting poyzin because i am pretty much certain of hitting cult, with a good chance of hitting the CL.

[Farkran]

Yes, poyzin is obviously a member of the cult

but if he is NOT CL, then the chance we lose the game dramatically increases if we lynch him

cult probably cannot recruit further right now, so unless you are MUCH more confident he is CL than rolecop, we should not lynch him and try to only hit the slot that we are most confident is CL

Poyzin is the one whom i am most confident on hitting CL. Right now i can only mechanically remove Korina from the CL list, and i think shos has the littlest chance of being CL among all the players list due to how things rolled out d1.

I would think that town!poyzin was the one most likely to make that claim, to be honest, and cult!shos tried to counterclaim it in hope that we would lynch the rolestopper so they could immediately recruit korina - and didn't care if shos was lynched in his stead, because he's no CL. I do not want to overlook the possibility that poyzin is CL, but if i had to look elsewhere i would look for shos' potential partner in d1. My best guess there would be BS.

[Farkran]

Out of shos vs poyzin, the only CL that makes logical sense is poyzin, because he was risking the lynch, shos wasn't. Shos is the one who might be playing the jestery CL, or a cultist wifoming to get a lynch on bingle followed by a lynch on poyzin - but if poyzin was sincere, he must have been recruited last night, there's no need to gambit today's lynch when they could just replace him. I am voting poyzin because i am pretty much certain of hitting cult, with a good chance of hitting the CL.

Poyzin is never the CL here. Because if Poyzin was cult/CL yesterday, he recruits Korina last night. sh0s would be town in this scenario and confirmable, and he would've claimed his target straight away. But he's obviously cult here.

That's why i would have liked to hear from korina first. If there is no rolestopper, things are a bit different.

[Farkran]

There's something i specifically expect korina to say if he's cult, and something he'd say if he's still town.

Wouldn't say very useful, but not useless either.

[Farkran]

Drop your tunnel, you're making no sense.

CL does not give a shit about bussing today, they do not need korina. Korina could only catch the CL during n1, he will NEVER, EVER be able to catch him again. Either he did, or he is now effectively a VT if not already culted.

Poyzin does have CL equity though. I do not understand why cult!shos would hold his FN target when he could just claim random bullshit?

I'll wait for korina to speak, that's my tiebreaker for today. If i get to believe poyzin was town, BS is my next bet.

[Farkran]

Post 896 is WRT my d2 introduction.

As for my bussing d1, that would make more sense. You're assuming shos is still town though, which i could agree with but will need developments first.

[Farkran]

Drop your tunnel, you're making no sense.

CL does not give a shit about bussing today, they do not need korina.

You're assuming shos is still town though,

interesting

World 1. There are rolestopper and tracker. Cult recruits rolestopper. Korina gets his one chance to identify the CL, after which the CL won't act again because they are capped. Once they aren't capped anymore, they will recruit korina, who won't tell us the truth.

World 2. There is no rolestopper. Korina is already culted.

[Farkran]

sorry for the delay i'll be phoneposting soon. targeted nobody tonight

Ok, this is proof the rolestopper was real. Not because he targeted nobody (which is obviously a bad move in itself), but because he waited for korina to speak first.

Korina is still town, poyzin is culted but not CL, kanna is town, shos is probably not CL.

VOTE: BS

[Farkran]

I am like 95% certain CL is within {bs > hectic > os}, i'd go for that specific order. Cultists are shos and poyzin. Flipping me means you are lynching 1/3 instead of 2/3. Remember i claimed VT in my very first post of this game.

[Farkran]

:thinks:
Waited on korina? I live in Israel bro. I was asleep.

Also I didn't target anyone because I don't want to get culted. There's no point in getting conftown if immediately I become cult.

Sorry shos, nothing personal but your posts are completely useless and amount the same as spam in the thread. This is because you are known cult, not because you are a bad person. It is your right to try and advance your win condition, but please do not cross the line (currently you didn't).

[Farkran]

-snip-

I admit i am tunneling at this point, but why would you only consider Hectic and Kanna for that specific reasoning? I mean, even in your quotes they are mostly talking about me and my posts. How i am not included in that specific reasoning? I could see disagreement bias since i am pushing you, but i'd like to ask you what makes me less town than kanna and hectic from your POV if you assume i am pushing "player x" instead of "poyzin".

You’re probably town, but I don’t think I can make a proper read of your alignment based on your tunnel on me without it being impacted by my personal opinions about it. “No lynch” player is probably a cultist, but I’m not sure about if they are the cult leader.

Kind of curious if Kanna decides to say that they get “weak town” vibes off of my post that town read them; seems like Kanna wants to give me assurance that I’m “onto something” with my reads.

My vote isn’t really useful right now so I’m going to place it somewhere more useful.

VOTE: No łynch. This would be L-2.

/in D3 cult

/out D3 cult

/In D3 Cult
According to rules, you can't vote no lynch!

I wonder whos alt am I.

LOL THATS HILARIOUS
VOTE: NO LYNCH

Should have expected Korina to be here lawl

VOTE: nolynch L-1

pushing on BS requires one of these to be a distancing bus from a cult member to a CL

which? and why?

Is there a reason why you are not reading this game? Poyzin was not cult yesterday, that's no distancing. Shos vote is distancing but it wasn't L-1.

[Farkran]

Korina is still town, poyzin is culted but not CL, kanna is town, shos is probably not CL.

VOTE: BS

if you were so strong on poyzin being the CL because under pressure you think CL would claim TPR, why do you think CL doesn't CC with a FN claim to create wifom? given your insistence that poyzin was CL I'm kinda surprised you're blowing past shos CL possibilities now

anyway

CL!poyzin makes sense in a world where shos is town.
Now we know he isn't. CL!shos is unlikely, his subordinate would have made the CC, not him.

[Farkran]

right so like

reread yourself from the start of this day and tell me you don't look like scum given the conclusions you stipulate in the last few posts

I'll tell you again

If you read the game from a tunneled POV, you will find any and all reasons to think your tunnel-target is scum. You are building your solve, not finding it.

Besides, you also need to read the game better regardless of tunneling. You have misrepped twice, and having wrong premises leads to wrong conclusions.

[Farkran]

Seeing as this is apparently an hard concept to grasp:

CL!poyzin NEEDS to claim something otherwise he's lynched. There's no jestery motive with that. If shos was town, this makes sense.

CL!shos does NOT need to counterclaim poyzin. He attracts attention for no reason at all. That is why shos is unlikely to be CL.

[Farkran]

Yeah I don't like you accusing me of a tunnel when I began this day voting Hectic

Your defensiveness has pushed me onto you way more than my "tunnel"

Keep misrepping people and get yourself lynched

Yeah, i noticed you don't like me. You have been scumreading me since d1. I don't think you are the most likely CL for many reasons, but dude if i am correct you are the literal definition of tunnel vision.

A: "I scumread you"
B: "You're wrong"
A: "No i am not, just read yourself to see that i am right"
B: "You're wrong"
A: "Your defensiveness proves i am right"

Ok

[Farkran]

A: "you're wrong"
B: "no, i am clearly right because i scumread you"

I am starting to find this amusing. Anyways, as i said you have already proved you don't recall things correctly. Twice. I suggest you reread the game.

[Farkran]

So ah
It appears everyone is convinced that I am cult, but not cult leader, meaning I'm a rolecop.

Why does rolecop-shos counterclaim poyzin? When bingles is 1 second away from mislynch?

Attempt to remove poyzin first so you could recruit korina. Worst case scenario, you get lynched but you don't care.

[Farkran]

k well enjoy the graveyard

I probably won't enjoy it as much as you will be enjoying post-game if you are town

[Farkran]

So ah
It appears everyone is convinced that I am cult, but not cult leader, meaning I'm a rolecop.

Why does rolecop-shos counterclaim poyzin? When bingles is 1 second away from mislynch?

Attempt to remove poyzin first so you could recruit korina. Worst case scenario, you get lynched but you don't care.

How does that help me?
Rolecop me could have just shut up. Town lynches bingles, leader recruits poyzin. Easy.
No more fear of korina because there are no more recruiting being done. If one cultist dies, korina is recruited.
Even better, I rolecop random townies so that korina tracks me, town thinks I am CL and lynches me, win-win for cult.

There is absolutely no reason for cult-shos to CC there.

You prevent korina from getting his one try and you have nothing to lose.

But most importantly, there's absolutely no way town!shos refuses to FN and waits for korina to speak first in order to make sure he wasn't checked.

[Farkran]

@OS and Kanna, i really don't believe you are cult together, so you are just not reading the game and suffering from a large problem of agreement bias.

For instance, kanna, i am pretty sure you are townreading OS just because he's scumreading me. You have to realize this does not make any sense, and everyone among you who is not cult is literally throwing the game based on poor logic, poor memory and/or poor ability to read and summarize past events. If you are not willing to reread and actually put effort in FINDING a scumcase rather than building it from the bottom up, there's nothing i can do about you. There are, in particular, three things you have to realize:

1) While in d1 it would make sense that the CL forces cultist!poyzin to claim to lure out the PRs, in d2 this is no longer true. If the cult has 3 members, there are no more threats to them. There is no need to bus anyone. Their ONE AND ONLY concern is to let the CL survive. Nothing else matters at this point. I was voting poyzin because, before shos was confirmed cultist, poyzin had CL equity. I really, really, really do not get how you are not understanding this.
2) If i am CL and poyzin was my original partner, you are now assuming shos is town. A town friendly neighbor who chose not to visit anyone, and waited for korina to claim first. This is nonsense.
3) Point 2 also implies korina is cult, because there was no rolestopper to begin with. Cult!korina doesn't play like that, and recruiting anyone else does not make sense. It's not even worth gambiting over it, because as long as the CL remains hidden they can refill their ranks every day. Wifom has no benefits over canceling even a minor threat such as korina n1 investigation. In case i didn't made my point clear: their only concern is that the CL survives. Everything else is irrelevant.

This is about why your reasons to scumread me are based on a wrong premise. Next post is about who could be CL in this gamestate.

[Farkran]

People that now have zero or next to zero CL equity: Poyzin, Korina, Kanna, and shos (this last one being most likely the original cultist).

Remaining people: Hectic, BS, OS, Farkran.

Reading from a perspective of who could be aligned with shos, it makes sense that BS is the best guess at CL. Read nolynch+BS+shos ISO together. Notice posts 172/173, 280, 310, 434.

Also notice how BS maintained a nullish-scumlean read about shos around post 511 but ended up never voting there, subsequently they stopped interacting with each other. Notice how EXACTLY those two slots took the longest time speaking after poyzin claim, which we now know it was true - very likely a sign that they were discussing together what and when to claim.

[Farkran]

Interactions between shos and BS do not make sense, really... BS, why is shos CL? Why am i not? Who do i push as mislynch if i am CL?

[Farkran]

Sorry kanna, but if you think shos was town, poyzin still has CL equity and there's no reason for you to think he doesn't.

Regardless though, cult should not risk recruiting shos over korina. There's no benefit in doing that, only harm. And this is the reason why poyzin was town and shos was cult, which clears all people i mentioned in 962.

[Farkran]

I'm not even reading shos posts anymore.

I'm also waiting for BS to answer. The gamestate is not advancing, massclaim has already happened, i think it's BS and i don't think i have any reason to budge away from that. I stand by post 962, and from that i am thinking that my wagon is entirely town, whereas the cultists are staying out of it on purpose to get towncred off of my flip.

If i get to L-1, i will immediately selfhammer.

[Farkran]

Are you saying that out of frustration or some strategic value?

What do you think? What did you expect to happen after my statement?

[Farkran]

Yeah, sure thing, poyz. What do you think of BS?

[Farkran]

So Farkran, were you trying to bait someone into putting you on L-1?

I was expecting to see a vote, yes. On the account of "verifying if i was being honest", to be specific. I had hoped it would come from hidden cult, because i honestly think my wagon is currently full town.

[Farkran]

So Farkran, were you trying to bait someone into putting you on L-1?

I was expecting to see a vote, yes. On the account of "verifying if i was being honest", to be specific. I had hoped it would come from hidden cult, because i honestly think my wagon is currently full town.

But does that not let confirmed-cult!sh0s hammer you if you're town? Why would you risk the possibility of town voting you since they found that statement scummy and wanted to test it, which allows sh0s to sweep in?

Because i wouldn't care. I think the wagon is already full town, so the person putting me at L-1, unless it was poyzin or shos themselves, was likely going to be the hidden scum. It could have been you or BS.

Besides, i just realized that pozyin and shos could have quickhammered without help from anyone when i was L-3... hmmm...

[Farkran]

This... doesn't really change anything from a solve standpoint, but there is the possibility that cult dodged the poyzin recruit in favor of obvious scum.

[Farkran]

So Farkran, were you trying to bait someone into putting you on L-1?

I was expecting to see a vote, yes. On the account of "verifying if i was being honest", to be specific. I had hoped it would come from hidden cult, because i honestly think my wagon is currently full town.

But does that not let confirmed-cult!sh0s hammer you if you're town? Why would you risk the possibility of town voting you since they found that statement scummy and wanted to test it, which allows sh0s to sweep in?

Because i wouldn't care. I think the wagon is already full town, so the person putting me at L-1, unless it was poyzin or shos themselves, was likely going to be the hidden scum. It could have been you or BS.

Besides, i just realized that pozyin and shos could have quickhammered without help from anyone when i was L-3... hmmm...

I mean L-2, aka 3 votes

[Farkran]

Kerset, I need to tell you something.
So there I was yesterday, minding my own business while playing Danganronpa 2, when one of the characters decides to put her hood up, and BOOM, suddenly she's Kerset. I didn't realise your pfp was her until I saw that specific pose, and now I can't help but think of you every time she has her hood up lol.

Chiaki is 2nd best character there, no shit. Best is mikan. But chiaki is a very close second.

[Farkran]

His replace out is very anti-CL-indicative too. CL is perfectly happy to be disregarded and ignored here, I think he's a frustrated recruit, rather than a CL throwing a free win away.

Yeah, this, pretty much. I am... fairly sure we can solve in bs >>>>> hectic > os.

"He siteflaked" after posting here? Nah. Although, if he was recruited, his chances to win weren't that bad, unless i am CL. I was still the highest wagon at the time. Hm... i am warming up to poyzin being still town, but once again that doesn't change a thing in my solve.

[Farkran]

Micro cult needs something to threaten the cult other than town lynches

Some day i will mod a good cult game.

[Farkran]

Can we wait for BS and then decide @everyone?

I think we can potentially win if we lynch one of <Farkran, BS> and the other one if wrong. I really don’t think CL is OS and I guess I can lose to Hectic if he really is CL.

I'm ok with this anyways. As long as we agree on the gamestate and don't accuse people out of faulty premises, i guess i have to eat scum equity. I don't get how you can believe i lied about being VT in my very first post, but it's ok. I will just make fun of you postgame.

I have already provided my proposed solve anyways

[Farkran]

Possible CLs: {Farkran, ObviousScum, Hectic, Kanna, Poyzin, shos}

Farkran goes out because I don't think he would like to push my mislynch as CL.

Poyzin goes out because he claimed when Bingle was the leading wagoon. Also, his claim was risky.
Leaving {ObviousScum, Hectic, Kanna, shos}
If we lynch shos and he turns into rolecop, we know Kanna is town. Yes, Kanna could stay at home, but the chances are small.
VOTE: shos

Interactions between shos and BS do not make sense, really... BS, why is shos CL?

He is a possible CL. If he flips rolecop, it means that Kanna is also not a CL. That's why he is the best lynch.

Why am i not?

Who do i push as mislynch if i am CL?

Me.

Wait what?

[Farkran]

I don't think i have anything to add to this day.

[Farkran]

VOTE: shos

I was just about going to bed, but let's just make it quick.

Also kanna and OS you should always trust your old farkran if you don't want to feel bad postgame, you know

[Farkran]

It would be so sinister to let this game continue. You would keep lynching townies and reach the highest level paranoia there can be. I guess i will just tell the truth.

Town

win condition have been achieved!
There are no more cultists alive!

CL didn't recruit anyone.

Lol kerset you're evil

[Farkran]

I assume the SK won this one.

I'm the SK, would've won but there aren't nights anymore so i can't kill

[Farkran]

Fark why did you think that poyzin was CL?

Because he was scummy to me, and that shos counterclaim threw me off. It was a good strategy, but not if the CL refuses/fails to recruit.

[Farkran]

Always the same movie lol

VOTE: shos is the scummiest for opportunism weight but i didn't like hectic either

Salamence is town in this game

By the way since everyone is showing their EP

[Farkran]

Also sorry bingle, still carried you to victory though, so no hard feelings?

To be more serious, shos cc was actually a nice plot twist, i don't think we have been wrong in lynching you. D2, i thought Poyzin lied, but when shos failed at his FN job it was clear poyzin was sincere and we just had to hit the CL among the remaining people.

[Farkran]

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[Farkran]

Yeah i want to read it too, give the cult pt!

[Farkran]

Some more credit where credit is due (for endgame): Farkran is a great player. 623 is good.

Hey thanks mate, lol. It's sad that it was used for a mislynch though, so... thanks, but if i was really great i would have got the CL

I don't believe this game was one of my best performances, unfortunately. I scumreaded a town PR, got him to claim, mislynched town and was almost mislynched by town. I have been lucky that 1. We had rolestopper and tracker, so that the CL has been scared into not recruiting; 2. We got the CL right d2. Otherwise this would have been a huge mess and almost certainly a town loss. Your counterclaim to poyzin was very good too imo, it just came at a wrong timing - faking a defense of bingle was good short-term, but counterclaiming poyzin earlier would probably have led to an actual poyzin lynch instead of bingle, which would have been better long-term.

[Farkran]

VOTE: shos