Open 70 - Two of Four (b9) (Game Over!) before 595

[Cass]

Except you are in no way know to be a townie, and you are waving that scenario around so that we can be scared out of lynching you.

It is completely known to me. In fact, it is the only fact I have. And the only emotion i feel is the urge to help town win. *shrug*
You really seem to be pushing for a quick-lynch on me. What I think is you were trying any kind of argument to get someone to put that fourth vote on me. It is also an inconsistency: Farside's emotions were not scummy, but my presumed emotions are?

I am also beginning to see why hunting by pair is a problem, even if it is my natural tendency. My case on Farside is heavily based on her interactions with and distancing from Armlx. Assuming she's town and her frustration with him is a null-tell - now, does that make Armlx town or scum?

Recently, Armlx and SG have both been acting somewhat scummy. Armlx pushing for a quicklynch on me and trying to convince people my reactions were emotional. Shadowgirl - well, Goat made some pretty good points against her.
Also FoS Strife for making it look like there are only two options.

[ShadowGirl]

Ick. Pressed reply by accident.

What I meant is that if anyone found something of note in the Max lynch they would have said it already.

You never stated that in your post vote. You just said it was a waste. Now you think his reaction odd or you think it is both?

More so the former [that it was a waste]. I've been in a game with dcorbe before and I don't see his reaction as odd - I've seen him get into fights with people and act like that.

This game is now first on my reread list.

[LlamaFluff]

I see where you are a little confused on the emotion thing here. You seem to be taking a more "appeal to emotion" path, where we are supposed to feel bad for getting you lynched. Farside went more with the mental breakdown path.

Recently, Armlx and SG have both been acting somewhat scummy. Armlx pushing for a quicklynch on me and trying to convince people my reactions were emotional. Shadowgirl - well, Goat made some pretty good points against her.
Also FoS Strife for making it look like there are only two options.

You seem all over the place here. Armix arguments seems slightly OMGUSsy, trying to get you lynched is not a scum tell. D2 has lasted 11 pages over a month of time.

The sudden suspicion of SG are confusing on a few levels. First, there was a push for a SG lynch when you joined the game, you however dismissed that case saying that farside scum made SG town because she had SG in her predicted scumpair

And for strife, is that it? Really?

[farside22]

@Farside or Armix: Is the Weather Mafia meta deal with Farside's interactions with Gorrad late in the day?

No, when I accused her + Bookitty of being a linked scum pair.

For some reason I was thinking you were talking about when people wanted to lynch Twomz and I got defensive with them for there line of thinking. I forgot about Bookitty, however if I remember that argument I was more questioning her then being defensive. (at least I thought)

[Goatrevolt]

Grimmy/Cass

I'm frustrated with you. Get it right. I'm also not putting so poor person in my place to answer stupid questions that don't make you happy.

If you are frustrated with Armlx, then vote arlmx every chance you get. We would all know the reasoning behind it. Voting yourself is like this:

Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Grimmy
full of....wisdom

Suggests that farside vote Armlx at every opportunity, despite the fact that farside's frustration at armlx doesn't mean that armlx is scum. I'm not sure really why Grimmy thinks that being frustrated at someone is a valid reason to vote them.

I'd also like to hear if anyone has anything positive to say about max. Speak up now or forever hold your piece

But Im still not gonna be the one who drops the hammer. I would also like to see his defense.

as for the scum being on the wagon already, there is a chance the scum are people who havent even responded yet since Max hit l-1

Check also for who hasnt posted since the latest vote(s)

Grimmy
doing a quick check in

Right here Grimmy has nothing positive to say about Max, but holds off on dropping the hammer. There's nothing really wrong with this post, however it's interesting compared with his following post.

My list of suspects consist of those who voted for MAX's lynch. But because max was...well...Max...it is not nearly enough to cast a vote.

Ill reread and come up with a suspect later

Grimmy
we are down by 2 now...dammit

His list of suspects are those who voted for Max. However, in his previous post, he mentioned that

1. He thought scum could be the ones who hadn't commented yet.
2. He had nothing positive to say about Max, thus showing his support of the wagon.

If he supported the wagon, and mentioned that scum might be ones not on the wagon, then why would his top suspects be the ones who voted for Max? That seems horribly hypocritical to blame those voting Max, when I lumped him in the category of "willing to vote Max".

Also, the "down by 2...dammit" just sounds completely insincere and scummy.

He makes the long PBPA on dcorbe, which I find interesting, because he points out lots of scummy posts, but his end judgment is that dcorbe is a townie, and he doesn't really go much into how he arrived at that conclusion.

---

Cass replaces:

Ok, it is the first time I try this, so maybe forgive me some little mistakes? In alphabetical order:

Armlx: Hammered Max. Wonders who would kill Blonde. Neither seems to mean much, though. His case against me/Grimmy (post 216) seems pretty weak to me. however, the same goes for the cases of other players. So, again, a null-tell?

Dcorbe: Plays aggressively, tries to get responses. He voted me (Grimmy) for saying the scum was on Max' wagon. I admit Grimmy's reasoning there was... non-existent. Still: a bit harsh to vote based on that, but not really a tell. His behaviour does feel a bit scummy. I'm highly interested in Strife's forthcoming case against him.

Farside: Got to L-1 on day 1, threw a tantrum, claimed vanilla. I believe that is a scum-tell. Since then, she has been pointing at Dcorbe (a lot), Armlx (a lot) and is currently voting Shadow. It seems to me that she is trying very hard to shift the attention to others. I also felt she was working very hard to tie Dcorbe to Armlx, yet she isn't voting for either of them but now ties Dcorbe to Shadow instead.

Scummy.

Llama: Seems to be lying low? I am not sure about him, also because of the replacement (lots of those in this game, btw...). Could be lurkerish scum, I guess, maybe. I have not seen a convincing case against him.

Shadow: Has claimed town (unprovoked), has two votes on her. Farside thinks that Shadow and Dcorbe are the scumpair. I do not find this case convincing either, but then, I'm already assuming Farside is scum, so that could be tunnel vision on my part.

Strife: Switched votes, but he had just replaced. His predecessor did some dubious thing. He voted Alvinz for lurking. His post 212 (about not knowing when night ends) could be a sneaky trick. Or it could be proof he isn't scum. Right now I think he is a townie.

I'm not a fan of this post here. Cass pretty much avoids taking a solid stance on nearly everyone.

Armlx - Has made weak cases. Cass doesn't take a stance one way or another.
Dcorbe - Points out that he is aggressively pursuing people to get responses (pro-town). Then says his behavior feels a little scummy (unsupported). Cass doesn't take a stance one way or another.
Farside - The one person Cass takes a stance on. Cass calls Farside scum for
1. Throwing a tantrum and claiming vanilla.
2. Trying to shift attention to others
3. Tied dcorbe with armlx, but now ties dcorbe with Shadowgirl.

Throwing a tantrum isn't really a scum tell persay. Both townies and scum get frustrated. It all comes down to context (I disagree with LlamaFluff that it's strictly WIFOM). Trying to shift attention to others is a really weak tell in my opinion, because it's basically saying that if you're a possible lynch target, you're no longer allowed to have other suspects, which is dumb. I don't see how changing her targets from dcorbe/armlx to dcorbe/shadowgirl is scummy.

I'd like to hear Cass explain each of those and show how they point to farside being scum.
LlamaFluff - Lurks. Cass doesn't take a stance on him.
ShadowGirl - Nothing other than not finding the case on her compelling because farside made the case. Cass doesn't take a stance on her.
Strife - Points out something scummy about his predecessor's posts, but then calls him a townie. Cass takes a stance, but it's an odd one based on what he says about strife.

Overall, Cass holds off on taking a stance on all but 2 players, and one of those players she calls town without any real reasoning whatsoever. The lack of solid stances bothers me.

Heh, I might get lynched here because another player typed 'when' instead of 'if'... (gotta remember that one, in case I'm ever scum...)

Now, I had been holding back in my previous post, to see if something would happen (Strife's post for example, or a slip-up) to make me more or less certain of things.
Before, I thought that Farside was scum (as I said). Strife's case, however, made me see dcorbe as scummier. The worst thing I think dcorbe did: He first said that 'the scum must already be on the wagon', and later he argued that it was no use to look for the scum on the wagon. Which makes me think that the scum

was

indeed on the wagon, and dcorbe knows this is the case.

Now what makes me doubt still, is that both dcorbe and Farside seem scummy, but I'm pretty sure they are not scum together - if I had to pick a partner for dcorbe, it'd be Shadowgirl. And just in case I get lynched before I get back (just happened in another game, so excuse my paranoia), here's my full opinion:

if

Farside flips scum, I think Armlx is the other one.

If

she flips town, I think dcorbe and SG are scum.
And yes, before someone asks, I withheld my opinion of Armlx on purpose in my earlier post. To see if there would be any buddying or distancing in the next posts.

I dislike the way Farside jumped on the dcorbe wagon after seeing SG's wagon fail. I also dislike her logic that because three people seem linked to dcorbe, dcorbe must be scum. Especially as she herself seems to do most of the linking. So I still think a vote on her is the safer choice. In my next post I shall argue more in depth what makes me suspect her.

Vote: farside22

Cass states that dcorbe is scummier to him than farside. He then says that he sees dcorbe/Shadowgirl as a scum pair (what farside was arguing), and then he votes farside 22? How does that follow? Dcorbe is supposedly scummier now than farside, and Cass agrees with farside's logic about dcorbe/shadowgirl being a scum team, however then Cass votes farside for jumping onto the dcorbe wagon? How is that not horribly contradictory?

@Llama: 'scummier': Yes, you're right, that was not worded very well, one could read it like that. What I

meant

to say is that after reading Strife's case I saw dcorbe as scummier than how I saw him before (when writing my first analysis).

Back then, my list would have been: 1) Farside 2)armlx 3)dcorbe

Right now, it is: 1)Farside 2)dcorbe 3)armlx

(Please cut me a tiny little bit of slack on the linguistics, english is not my first language.)

Ok, this clears that up a bit. Apparently dcorbe is scummier meant scummier than his previous opinion and not "scummier than farside." Cass's previous post is not nearly as contradictory as a result of this.

After that Cass claims Vanilla townie and "appeals to emotion" about his lynch costing a townie, and asks for more discussion prior to lynching him. Both of those strike me as a null tell really. I don't see the appeal to emotion as being very scummy, because I've seen town do it just as often as scum.

Overall: I see some definitely scummy things here, such as Grimmy's stances regarding Max and Cass's lack of stance on players in his post where he covered everyone in the game. On the other hand, I've seen some townie tells, such as consistency in pushing farside, and what appears to me as a genuine desire to find and lynch scum. For that reason, I'd prefer a Shadowgirl lynch over Cass today. I'd still like to read through at least Avinyl/Strife though before committing a vote.

[farside22]

Anyone else see a connection between Cass and strife at this point. The fact that Strife states he doesn't seen that Grimmy did anything scummy is just ridiculous to me.

[strife220]

The fact that Strife states he doesn't seen that Grimmy did anything scummy is just ridiculous to me.

Well that's a lie.

After the post where I pointed out what I thought was scummy, I ask if there were any points that I missed, and nobody said anything. I pointed out 3 or 4 posts Grimmy/Cass have made which were scummy, and concluded that their scumtells were not as concrete as yours (tantrum *see below*), and not even in the same ballpark as dcorbe's. The only thing that Goatre mentions that I missed (that's an actual scumtell) is Cass's wishy-washyness. Which I admit, is a good point - I should have picked up on that on my own re-read.



*Below*
Having finally plowed my way through Weather Mafia (nobody could have just told me a page number?), I'm starting to have second thoughts on Farside. It's clear now that she has a bit of a temper. While I think Armix's argument against her was better than some of the arguments made in Weather Mafia, behaviour between the two is fairly consistent:

Oh yeah, an SK that can only kill during one specific type of weather that doesn't happen until Night Four. VERY likely. And as for your investigations, let's hear 'em.

I'm not answering any of your questions since you don't have a good reason to trying to NK. Go screw yourself.
If the town listens to this crap from you I could care less since the reasoning thus far is none!

farside, you just claimed cop. This requires investigations to come forth.

Yes, it does.

Yet neither one of you question his sanity or ask why he wants to NK me.
Whatever
Xtoxm - innocent
BooKitty - innocent
I don't care after this. I'm not answering why because this town has failed on so many levels it just pisses me off.

If it's a choice between Farside and Cass (which I still think it is, despite the FOSs. Unless someone claims scum, I can't imagine a game that's been stalled for weeks with two people at the noose to do a complete 180 and lynch person #3), I'm becoming more inclined to favor the Cass lynch.

[armlx]

It is completely known to me. In fact, it is the only fact I have. And the only emotion i feel is the urge to help town win. *shrug*

Emotion != logic. Logic = good.

[farside22]

My apologies strife it wasn't you who stated that. I will look tomorrow because I recall someone stating they didn't see a Grimmy case.

[Cass]

Maybe it was me? No, I can see the case actually... Grimmy made at least one very scummy post and I have been feeling wishy-washy. Maybe it is because everyone in this game is so aggressive and, uhm, emotional, that it is hard to tell the scum apart? I fear I'm in a lose-lose situation, but here goes:

I was pretty convinced of my Farside case. But there have been a lot of arguments thrown around since I showed up, and some of them made me think. If I 1] dismiss the temper tantrum (seeing the evidence from weather mafia) and 2] drop the link to Armlx (because we shouldn't hunt for pairs) - the case pretty much falls apart. And I shouldn't keep the vote on just for fear of the noose :p So, for the sake of logic and my conscience I have to

Unvote Farside

In case that means hammertime for me, I want to have said that I think the scum is two out of (in no particular order):
- Goat (dcorbe) - however, Goat's posts are good and the meta on dcorbe undermines the case
- shadowgirl
- armlx
- strife (but then why didn't he just hammer me?)

You seem all over the place here. Armix arguments seems slightly OMGUSsy, trying to get you lynched is not a scum tell. D2 has lasted 11 pages over a month of time.
The sudden suspicion of SG are confusing on a few levels. First, there was a push for a SG lynch when you joined the game, you however dismissed that case saying that farside scum made SG town because she had SG in her predicted scumpair
And for strife, is that it? Really?

Getting me quicklynched is pretty scummy, because the scum

knows

it gets them to Lylo. Assume for one second that I'm town and Armlx is scum and you can see my logic.
I still don't think Farside and SG are the scumpair. But I guess SG could a pair with Armlx or Goat/dcorbe. I also said that if Farside is town (which I now assume), SG is probably scum. It's not a sudden suspicion.
And about strife: before me, Farside fos-ed him for the same thing and Goat said he hated it. So, yes, I do think it's a big deal. Big enough for a Fos.

@Goat:
- I can only agree that the Grimmy posts are scummy. I can't blame people for voting me based on them.
- About my first analysis post with the weak stances: true, but I took weak stances there on purpose. I'm pretty sure I said later that I had been holding back in that post. In fact, back then I thought Armlx was very scummy, but I didn't say so - on purpose. I hoped he'd come and defend Farside, or slip up some other way, thereby confirming my perceived scumpair. I was also curious if Strife's attack on dcorbe would shift that perception (it didn't, btw, which is why I took a firmer stance after that).

[Goatrevolt]

Vote Shadowgirl

My preferred lynch for today so far.

Strife: When you joined the game, you pushed your case on Dcorbe despite the fact that he had no votes and there were two L-2 wagons (farside, shadowgirl). However, when I replaced in, you told me to only focus on the two wagoned targets. Contradictory, no?

[armlx]

Armlx pushing for a quicklynch on me

Getting a person to L-2 and getting a claim != quick lynch.

[Cass]

Armlx pushing for a quicklynch on me

Getting a person to L-2 and getting a claim != quick lynch.

That's not what I was talking about, I was referring to your posts

after

my claim, these two for example:

Yeah, lynch should proceed.

Your claim does nothing to refute the case on you. Also, appeal to emotion on the LyLo thing, and pretty much the entire rest of your post.

Which really seem to be pushing for someone to hammer, and quickly now. I

might

misread you because I'm the one under threat here, but I really don't think so. A quick hammer on me is very much in the interest of scum. (And yes, I can say that with such certainty. My role pm quite convinced me of my own innocence :p ) And even if I were scum, a quick hammer would be by no means necessary. As things stand right now, I'd be the deadline lynch anyways.

[armlx]

That is what I was talking about. The entire lynch procedure was followed. Your claim did nothing to disprove any points on you, and anyone who held back their vote so you could claim was at that point justified to hammer.

[ShadowGirl]

Doing a massive reread - I'm currently up to page ten.

[ShadowGirl]

Farside/Armlx:
Farside:

Mod,

It's been almost 24 hours since the last post. Can we put a time limit on the day please?

Asking for a deadline does not help if people aren't posting. This is by far the scummiest thing to do. You should be asking for a prod on those not posting in the last couple of days first.

unvote:
vote: dcorbe

Some looking for a no lynch = scum

Asking for a deadline anti-town move, but I wouldn't say scummy. He merely wants to get more activity. Also, nowhere does it say that he wants a no lynch.

In post 22 where farside says: "I say we should vote those not trying to promote activity." sounds a little like scum not trying to sound like scum to me. Nothing around that post seems to warrant her saying that.

Vote: farside22

That was post 35 not 22 and towards alvin95 who has done nothing and said nothing helpful or trying to promote conversation in anyway which does not help the town.
Meh you could be town. I think 3 pages isn't really telling me anything about you except you are aggressive.

unvote:

(for now)

vote: alvinz95

Get in and start hunting scum or you are scum.

Wants to get off the wagon before he gets hammered and it shows that he's not scum. Not the best reason for voting alvinz.

Hmm, farside22 changes his vote right after getting accused by dcorbe (who had most votes) and then farside22 tries to make us look somebody else than himself.

"So lynch all lurkers is your policy?" I kind of like that policy...

I'm not lynching lurkers policy. I'm stating that people need to promote conversation and not just say I don't know.

FOS Armix

. Because of all the players here you should know that. I moved back to alvinz95 because of his post. I unvoted dcorbe because he is a newbie and as I stated it was page 3 and nothing much was going on.

And what post would that be? As you said before, he's been contributing nothing and that's why you voted for him.

Unless you meant this post:

Sorry, I was at Islands of Adventure the past weekend...
So lynch all lurkers is your policy? Obviously an attempt you deflect attention...

Which still does not constitute a vote.

He was at L-1 and claimed townie. Correct procedure is pretty much always lynch.

With 3 pages and no info? That is terrible idea. Unless I'm certain he was scum why let him get lynched by a quick hammer? Sure maybe it will flush out a newbie scum day one, but if dcorbe is townie it just gives the scum an early first kill with no discussion. You logic fails.

He was wagoned for legitimately scummy reasons and didn't have a saving claim.

So he should be lynched without more discussion?

Not my point. My point is abandoning his wagon based on the info at that point in time was EXTREMELY odd.

Leaving him at L-1 which is uncomfortable when I've seen some people with quick hammers some games.

Again, this all comes back to the idea of you voting (and putting at L-2 I might add) someone you weren't comfortable with lynching or thought was town.

I'm uncomfortable with a page 3 no info lynch. You keep missing that. Putting him at L-2 for good reason. Leaving it because sometimes (most times) scum look for an easy and quick lynch to cause confusion.
Nice try in purposely misunderstanding me. Look forward to hearing you try and convince people day 2 why you were so hard up on my lynch when I have stated over and over my reasons and you keep misunderstanding. Sad part I think you are town.

No info? What more do you want from a day start lynch?

Also, nice trying to scare me off voting you b/c of the "consequences" while simultaneously buddying by saying you think I'm town.

Talks from everyone. Get a feel for everyone to see what they say and not just saying the same thing over and over again.
Honestly your argument is getting on my nerves because you aren't reading anything I am saying and find your shortsightedness sad. I've explained my unvote and thoughts you just don't agree. I don't care that you don't agree I care that you seem to think it's scummy when I'm doing more searching. I expect to be lynched and want it on record I don't find you scummy, but your shorsightedness will have people looking at you when I'm lynched and come out town just as I said I would.

You expect to be lynched at L-2? There's still awhile to go. Yet, after everything you don't believe that he is scum but still expect that town will think he is after you flip town.

Vote Farside

.

Also, no previous suspicion of max stated. Wagon much?

I think she had her vote on Max already before she unvoted and voted herself.

I'm sure if you go back far enough in the thread she at one point made a pretty small case against.

-Daniel

QFT. I did. My opinion hasn't changed. He is not making any sense on his thought process and attacked anyone for asking him about it. He voted for me with little no reasoning. Overall I get scummy vibes from him.

And now you finally think he is scum after his irrational actions even though he had been like this before and you didn't think he was scum - if and when he's lynched it would look better on you.

I don't think Armix is scum I just think he is narrow minded.

I'm starting to think this as well.

Unvote

of hypocrisy.

I endorse a Max lynch now. He has been actively scummy as opposed to subtlely as I have accused dcorbe and farside of.

And now you change your stance on him once again, saying that he is town for the same reasons you previously thought was scum.

And of course, an unvote from Armlx - so flip floppy.

Not to give all my trade secrets but not everyone who dies at night died because of what they say. Some scum kill those who aren't suspicious. I wouldn't say Mr. Blonde was a great choice (usually a more pro town player is targeted) so I suspect someone who hasn't played as much mafia if I were to pick anyone as scum.

A way to shift away from his very few comments.

Armix:

endorses a lynch of Max, but I don't really see a reason why
jtdyer/ShadowGirl: Also lurkerish with nothing to add. I didn't really like his reasoning for his vote for max. I would like to add that Armix could you please post your reasons for your vote because you too are on my list for your hammer and suspicion without real reason radar.

vote: shadowgirl

How does lurking trump a hammer? If anything, voting armlx to pressure him would be a better idea.

As much as Armix beat me up for not keeping my vote on dcorbe I wonder if it wasn't bussing.

What does this mean?

You were arguing with me about my unvote on dcorbe. I think you two may be scum partners and I do believe you to be the type of person to buss your scum partner.

Which is what he’s being doing to you basically the whole game.

[ShadowGirl]

Armlx:

I agree with the dcorbe stuff so far. Max is null on my list so far as is Avinyl for their interaction (or more max's random push on him for something not really that scummy).

dcorbe, claim and/or die.

Also, no one is to hammer dcorbe before he claims.

Yeah, just leaving him chilling there is awkward. Waiting on claim still.

Umm, yeah, Farside just abandoning the wagon is pretty sketchy.

Vote Farside

3rd on the wagon and what not. Been forever since I used that one.

Seems a bit bussy.

Unvote

Definitely did NOT realize that was L-1.

You asked dcorbe to claim, but not farside?
You voted for her for doing the same thing you just did.

I think a dcorbe lynch at this point is counter productive. A page ago it wasn't.

Oh? Because he claimed town?

Waiting on a Farside claim, then I will vote based on that.

And now you ask a claim for her, despite you were quick to ask dcorbe for one.

Pushes dcorbe wagon and just randomly abandons it post townie claim for no reason.

She hadn't claimed townie at that point.

Vote Farside

. Didn't vote earlier as she was at L-2.

If you truly think she is scum you shouldn't be so hesistant to put at L-1.

He was at L-1 and claimed townie. Correct procedure is pretty much always lynch.

You are fine with lynching dcorbe but don't do so yourself, but you're hesistant to put farside at L-1.

What you did and what you say you did are conflicting.

What you did: Put dcorbe at L-2, then jumped off after he claimed townie on the basis of "I just think you are aggressive"

What you say you did: Pressured dcorbe and then hopped off to extend the day.

These are conflicting issues. The former implies that you wanted him to be lynched then backed out right before we could lynch him so you weren't blamed. The second implies a lot more tact, which I think you are retroactively trying to add to your actions.

Why would I be blamed for his lynch if most people agreed with it? I read his response to his claim and comments and said he is aggressive, but also stated page 3 is not enough info. I never didn't say that and you keep missing that to make yourself sound good. Whatever helps you sleep at night or makes you think your scum hunting is good is no skin off my nose. Remind me the next time I see you in for a game to out myself because your scum hunting is terrible. You are looking for something that isn't there and letting the scum fly off.
I would wish the town good luck, but if you are listening to Armix you are screwed.

unvote:
vote: farside22

I hope you are happy this is the first game I ever voted for myself because you just made this a miserable experience for me.

By not voting him, if he turns up town, you distance yourself from the blame.

Also, claim please and

Unvote

so no one hammers before this occurs.

Also, self voting is 100% anti-town. Just saying.

You ask her to claim when she's already claimed, and you mentioned that the reason you thought she was scummy was because of that claim.

You are still unwilling to let her go to L-1 but you were fine with lynching dcorbe. By this point I can gather that you would think farside scummier then dcorbe after that heated discussion.

By not voting him, if he turns up town, you distance yourself from the blame.

Also, claim please and

Unvote

so no one hammers before this occurs.

Also, self voting is 100% anti-town. Just saying.

Already claimed. Not unvoting myself. I have nothing else to say to you.

If you are that frustrated with the game, would you mind asking for replacement rather than going about your current course of action?

Appears to be an appeal to the emotions, and trying to ease suspicion off her because of her outbursts are purely emotion driven.

Vote Farside

.

Also, no previous suspicion of max stated. Wagon much?

And you finally vote for her because she's voting max, not because of the discussion that just came up - and she had already been voting him, at that.

I'd also like to hear if anyone has anything positive to say about max. Speak up now or forever hold your piece

How about we wait for a claim before we do anything rash.

Mr. Blonde: You are wrong. Such lists are made by both alignments, backed by both, etc. Usually, making such a list is detrimental to any sort of grouped scum however.

Yeah, nothing convincing.

Vote Max

Hammah time.

An easy hammer considering everyone wanted it, however, you're the one who suggest to wait for a claim and then you chuck that out the window seeing the opportunity.

I'm trying to figure out who would have killed Mr. Blonde in this scenario

Not liking that last Grimmy post, on top of what farside said there the "oh no, 2 dead townies" thing.

We never do hear about this 'scenario'.

Avinyl and armlx. When I've seen these type of lists, you can rest assured that there's either:
(1) scum who makes this list (to control on who could be suspicious)
or
(2) townie makes a list to which scum says "good list".

Hmm..

alvinz- Null. More content needed.

Avinyl- Mildly scummy. Hisscum list is very non-commital towards most people, and he was the only person with a legit reason to kill Mr. Blonde (or more accurately, the only person who would think it was a legit reason)

Dcorbe- In retrospect, pro-town. Hasn't done anything really scummy besides that one contradiction. Seems very interactive as well.

Farside- Town, comparison to Weather Mafia mainly.

Grimmy- Scum, see above

jtdyer- Possible scum, voting record is pretty opportunistic.

Farside is back to town and use the Weather Mafia as a way to justify her reaction.
I'd also like to point out you seem to pin mine and my predecessor's votes as opportunistic but not anyone else's.

As much as Armix beat me up for not keeping my vote on dcorbe I wonder if it wasn't bussing.

What does this mean?

You were arguing with me about my unvote on dcorbe. I think you two may be scum parnters and I do believe you to be the type of person to buss your scum partner.

I think that Armlx thought that farside slipped.

Yawn, this sounds like a fight among townies.

More lynching Grimmy would be my solution.

The two people fighting are the two people who you think as scum.

At best it's going to lead us to a WIOFMy mis lynch. I'm concerned about the consequences of us mis-lynching a power role because we got some bad intelligence from the Max lynch.

This is an example of having the fear of being wrong, though I agree with you analyzing the Max lynch right now is pretty useless.

I wouldn't say its useless, but more that right now is not the optimal time to try and draw info from the max wagon. I mean, its pretty assured both scum were on it, but so was almost all the town.

If you are pretty assured that scum was on it, I wouldn’t say that info is useless.

Farside: The only people who did not endorse a Max lynch were Max and alvin95, who didn't even post. I am counting Grimmy and Avinyl as on the wagon as they definitely showed worthy voting intents. The odds of the sole person who didn't attack max being scum are 2/7, not even accounting for scum having incentive to join the mass wagon. Thats pretty assured to me.

Voting intentions and voting are not the same thing. You’re just trying to make it seem that it could be basically anyone so that there’s no point in looking over it.

Did a full reread, and I still agree with my current course of action: Lynch Grimmy then move from there.

I still think we have better options in SG (who replaced jtyder) and strife (who replaced avinyl). What are your views on the other wagons that are appearing though (SG and farside), grimmy has to be scum buddies with someone.

Actually you was my current choice, but its pretty weak and I am no where near confident enough to lynch anyone other than Grimmy right now.

Then speak up and say why he is your choice. Just going along with it, hm?

I understand why you would re-route to attack Farside, but if your suspicion of Farside drops, the logical thing to do seems to be go back after DCorbe. Like you said, he got to L-1 for a reason, and the vanilla claim shouldn't have effected anything.

There are 2 reasons behind this.

1) Everything Max had done up to that point was suspicious.

2) Meta-based information from an ongoing game where he was revealed as town.

That was that game, this is this game.

Why do you need someone else to justify as to whether your vote is good? You should know whether it or not.

This is a decent point. Asking what people think of a case you make is good, but not asking for direct support in a vote.

Buddying up to me a little?

That is not only lining up lynches that is a big slip in saying hey guess what grimm's flipping scum.

I'm confused as to why you want to lynch dcorbe before grimmy for that.

Seems like two partners talking to each other.

[skitzer]

Vote Count 11 of Day 2

(2) Cass (armlx, farside22)
(1) farside22 (ShadowGirl)
(1) ShadowGirl (Goatrevolt)
(0) Goatrevolt
(0) LlamaFluff
(0) strife220
(0) armlx

(3) Not Voting (strife220, LlamaFluff, Cass)

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch!

Deadline is set for Thursday, July 24th.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok after reading post 484 im going to go back to

vote cass

for a few reasons

First is how she dropped the farside case. It was based on meta and that she no longer wants to hunt for scum pairs. Given that she now dropped the case, it means that this was all it was based on, which is just bad.

Next is how she introduced goat/dcorbe as her suspect. She called dcorbe scummy, but meta put him at normal demanor. Also she called the way goat is playing very pro-town. So there really was no solid stance here in the end.

Another thing here is, Cass didnt vote. She managed to lay out an exact list of her scum order and decided that none of them actually deserved a vote. This is fence sitting on an epic level, as she now can just move a vote to whoever will get her out of the jam she is stuck in.

You still seem to be using appeal to emotion tactics in your defense, saying that grimmy made you look bad and that your first few posts were bad. Also the "put yourself in my shoes" defense.

ShadowGirl has been thrown in as a mate to goat and armix for reasons that we dont really know, because farside has suddenly become town. Also this occurred right after goat made a push for a shadowgirl lynch.

Finally, excuse the scum buddy hunting as this is now "a bad thing" to you, but the relationship between you and strife is very close to me. Strife was pushing for a dcorbe lynch early in the day, and some information that put you as his buddy was included. When people started pushing your lynch, strife did not change votes. When challenged by me, he still seemed very hesitant over using information he introduced to vote you. Now you have adopted his "dont hunt pair" strategy, and have him at the bottom of your list for some reason. Also you put "Why didnt he just hammer me" next to that. If you are calling a player town, but seem to be questioning that because he didnt hammer you. It sounds like hammering you was the town thing to do, putting you at scum.

Cass is todays lynch, the scum tells are through the roof, the relationship with strife is off the scale. Someone please hammer.

[strife220]

Strife: When you joined the game, you pushed your case on Dcorbe despite the fact that he had no votes and there were two L-2 wagons (farside, shadowgirl). However, when I replaced in, you told me to only focus on the two wagoned targets. Contradictory, no?

Fair point, but I'd argue that two L-2 wagons and no deadline is quite different than two L-1 wagons and a deadline. Given how I think your predecessor was by far and large the scummiest player, I was anticipating you distancing yourself from the days lynch by focusing on a third party until deadline hit. I still think that may be what you're doing, but am happier since you made a reasonable case against Grimmy/Cass.

[strife220]

Cass is todays lynch, the scum tells are through the roof, the relationship with strife is off the scale. Someone please hammer.

Anxious much? Shadowgirl just made two monster posts, Goatre is still planning an analysis on me, and you want the day ended already?

[Goatrevolt]

I wasn't a fan of Cass's 484 either, but I'm not going to hammer right now.

I'd like to see what else ShadowGirl is going to say, and I'd still like to review more before ending the day.

[ShadowGirl]

Cass is todays lynch, the scum tells are through the roof, the relationship with strife is off the scale. Someone please hammer.

Anxious much? Shadowgirl just made two monster posts, Goatre is still planning an analysis on me, and you want the day ended already?

My thoughts exactly. It's like... my posts never even happened.

Her playing style seems newbie-ish: dropping cases by dismissing some facts because other people say they are null tells or are other things - like hunting pairs aren't a good idea.

[farside22]

Cass is todays lynch, the scum tells are through the roof, the relationship with strife is off the scale. Someone please hammer.

Anxious much? Shadowgirl just made two monster posts, Goatre is still planning an analysis on me, and you want the day ended already?

My thoughts exactly. It's like... my posts never even happened.

Her playing style seems newbie-ish: dropping cases by dismissing some facts because other people say they are null tells or are other things - like hunting pairs aren't a good idea.

I need to read this post by SG. I saw it but my brian went man I have to work hard and I just don't have the energy. You suck.
Seriously try waking up at 2:30am to feed a baby and go back to sleep after 30 minutes of being awake with a hubby bugging you while you just hope like heck you can get just those last 4 hours without being disturbed and see how great you feel the next day.

[LlamaFluff]

Cass is todays lynch, the scum tells are through the roof, the relationship with strife is off the scale. Someone please hammer.

Anxious much? Shadowgirl just made two monster posts, Goatre is still planning an analysis on me, and you want the day ended already?

My thoughts exactly. It's like... my posts never even happened.

Her playing style seems newbie-ish: dropping cases by dismissing some facts because other people say they are null tells or are other things - like hunting pairs aren't a good idea.

I wrote half my post before lunch and half after, you posted in between it. Given that I am fairly convinced of Cass at this point though, I really wouldnt be crushed if someone did hammer her sometime soon.

For your farside-armix interactions though, they are good. I may be impartial to them a bit because I have had a town read on farside since I replaced into this game, but if Armix flips scum its something to look into. The other fault I really see with that pairing is that Armix seems to be the one that caused farside to breakdown and selfvote. That seems much much farther then scum would take it with another scum. WIFOM I know but I dont see scum taking it that far, ever.