TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[Kerset]

How can someone make a theme game and don't give Jingle post restriction? That is a war crime.

[Kerset]

if rc was coaching bitmap rc would just write bitmap's posts

How about we ask bitmap something, when RC is asleep? I can ask my teammate to bore RC and make him tired.

[Kerset]

Konichiwa mina-san I was informed the game began and since I'm way too busy watching Phoenix Wright with cute girls to read this my team left me some notes:

- They are very jealous of this playerlist get fucked bitches
- chemist is town, ofrhz is prob town, jjh is possibly scum
- mastina should be put in quarentine (I would always put mastina in quarentine I literally don't think I've ever read a mastina post and thought she was town tbh)

Arigato nakama I will actually read this ashita! Desu uwu

I don't trust you. We are awesome and you wouldn't just leave us. Get back here evil one.
VOTE: shadow

[Kerset]

My vote on Jingle was rvs in case that wasn't clear

Your vote is still on Jingle and this very isn't the defense you think it is

Wow you were playing this game for 2 hours.

[Kerset]

Hi guys, I'm here ready to Have Fun and play a Friendly Game of Mafia

this is confirmed scum

[Kerset]

Mena and jingle are like school bullies, who bully bitmap because he has famous relative. It feels like excuse to make a push rather then accurate one.

[Kerset]

I don't trust you. We are awesome and you wouldn't just leave us. Get back here evil one.
VOTE: shadow

Do I know you? ଲ( ⓛ ω ⓛ *)ଲ This is weirdly familiar for someone I don't know who the Jigoku they are.

You don't but maybe you will be able to recognize dear Nanami if you switch from this shadow form.

[Kerset]

Mena and jingle are like school bullies, who

bully bitmap because he has famous relative

. It feels like excuse to make a push rather then accurate one.

Are you talking about them asking for RC's reads in the bolded? Why is that scummy?

It makes sense to ask a known, strong player for their reads.

VOTE: Kerset

It makes sense to ask but you still can do this with bad intentions. It is a first step to discredit bitmap. Just look at mastina.
It is all about genuity, so i don't see any point you making here.

[Kerset]

I don't think those posts are town indicative.
In fact, I feel like thats the sort of pressure thats applied by scum with the mindset of "how can I make this person look like an idiot as much as possible."

Why would there be any need to make mastina look bad? The general opinion of her in this thread is already negative. That wouldn't serve any purpose.

For what it's worth, I don't think mastina is scum

So is it AI or not?

[Kerset]

I think I'm fairly strong on Ali!town bc I feel the same way about klick atm, and her point about gamma

wait this doesn't track, I mean I feel the same way about eir (tbh Alisae and Bitmap both just get town vibes on effort tell right now, it's classic for a reason) but if you like the counterpoint to your point about gamma's absence being scummy that feels like some unresolved tension

@hito I'm going to bed imminently but yeah I have multiple games with gamma and he's been consistently a much higher poster when town vs scum apart from when he had a head injury and dropped in activity site wide

I don't know what you mean about Ali and unresolved tension

I like that she thought gamma was scummy for not being around but then checked and walked it back because he's not been on site?

The unresolved tension is that, if you like a walkback after seeing Gamma is not on site, I would imagine you either a.) also walk it back or b.) try to impress upon Alisae the reason why you

aren't

walking it back. Just don't get the set of motivations where you're like "that's a good walkback of your gamma suspicion! anyway I'ma chill mutely with my gamma vote"

You are really just tried to imply that read has to be black or white. You can still townread person, even if you two have different views on Gamma. Creating

personal

pressure on TR to change their read based on your metaknowlege is rather scum tactic.

[Kerset]

The fuck are people voting ofhrz for

The reason is on the same posts. I don't like this post.

[Kerset]

Can I interest anyone in a Kerset

counter

wagon?

I corrected this for you.

[Kerset]

RC thinks Klick is town.

What about you

Wow someone acknowledged bitmap as a player. You deserve a cake for that.

[Kerset]

Mena and jingle are like school bullies, who

bully bitmap because he has famous relative

. It feels like excuse to make a push rather then accurate one.

Are you talking about them asking for RC's reads in the bolded? Why is that scummy?

It makes sense to ask a known, strong player for their reads.

VOTE: Kerset

It makes sense to ask but you still can do this with bad intentions. It is a first step to discredit bitmap. Just look at mastina.
It is all about genuity, so i don't see any point you making here.

To clarify, you’re saying mena, jingle, and Mastina sounded disingenuous in their bitmap pushes? If so, where?

In basically every relation there as they were only speaking about RC reads.

[Kerset]

jingle has posted nothing but spamposts since he started

Nah, there's relevant content too. I'm just very content to be passive atm.

You are trying to make reactions with votes but you don't seem to care about effects.

VOTE: ofhrz

Typing is hard, man.

You moved there without any care about your previous opportunistic vote. Aside of who do you vote, you make it in scumy way.

[Kerset]

AlsoVOTE: Bitmap.
This is rc coaching a scumbuddy on how to play scum.

If you don't see agenda then look at the effect of it. Bitmap gets voted for being coached. Do you see how setting up environment gives effects?

[Kerset]

I think Klick is leaning town.

Same question goes out to you

Because Bitmap is Klick's scumbuddy.

Do you wanna join the wagon?

Am i not the one asked but is there some sort of backstory, which i am not aware of? Does Klick have some sort of specific meta, which apeared here? I don't get the idea behind this wagon.

[Kerset]

I don't think those posts are town indicative.
In fact, I feel like thats the sort of pressure thats applied by scum with the mindset of "how can I make this person look like an idiot as much as possible."

Why would there be any need to make mastina look bad? The general opinion of her in this thread is already negative. That wouldn't serve any purpose.

For what it's worth, I don't think mastina is scum

So is it AI or not?

I'm not sure what you're asking here, sorry. Could you rephrase?

Do you make nonscum read based on this or outside of it? You suggest that this thing is nonaligment indicative.

[Kerset]

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

[Kerset]

I guess i should update this as well
VOTE: ofrhz

[Kerset]

You ask for my full readlist but do you have any reads beside me? I don't recall you as tunnel type.

[Kerset]

Spoiler:

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

did your team contribute to this at all?

Yea Farkran gave some insight about bitmap, ofrhz and menalque

[Kerset]

I think Klick is leaning town.

Same question goes out to you

Because Bitmap is Klick's scumbuddy.

Do you wanna join the wagon?

Am i not the one asked but is there some sort of backstory, which i am not aware of? Does Klick have some sort of specific meta, which apeared here? I don't get the idea behind this wagon.

Alisae! Ignoring me is illegal!!!!!

[Kerset]

Yea Farkran gave some insight about bitmap, ofrhz and menalque

What were farkran’s thoughts?

He is scumreading you because he didn't like your bad push on me also fark is still salty, because he was hard townreading ofrhz when he was scum in the Normal game you played together
Do you want to hear about other as well?

[Kerset]

It is a first step to discredit bitmap. Just look at mastina.

You're saying...*I*...am discrediting

Bitmap

?

Mate you got those names backwards because one of the reasons why Bitmap is my strongest scumread is that Bitmap has gone out of his way to discredit me.

So tell me where did this started?

[Kerset]

actually I think the entire ofrhz wagon has exactly this same sort of disease - there's like three people on it and all of them are sorta reinventing the wheel with no reference on how they like the other people on it, their arguments, etc. Contrast with Klick wagon being entirely driven by Alisae just asking three people to jump on and all of us saying yes. Big lack of solidarity on non-Klick wagons. it's doing a bit of a number to that tentative jj town read I had.

Are you tying to say that wagon made out of blank votes is the best because it has solidarity? It sounds like: instant noodles are the best kind of food because they are made out of water.

[Kerset]

I think shadoweh’s reads are towny and if people still scumread her I disagree

indeed

[Kerset]

I mean I know I'm only being pushed because scum team is afraid of RC.

I don't know whenever it is a scumteam, who is afraid of RC but people are biased as hell.

[Kerset]

also ig mastina is just town for voting bitmap and saying RC is coaching him?

See that's what I thought too. I just think mastina is playing really bad based on what I saw in Undertale Mafia personally but she's being pro-scum right now.

BTW this would probably be the first post that I would say is discrediting me, but I feel like that there are posts before this which I should still mention as part of the overly strong focus on me.

So, this is the start of the discrediting, but not the start of the overly strong focus on me, which is even earlier in Bitmaps iso.

So it was basically after you voted bitmap and said that he is being coached. I could see that 165 is just a joke but you are the one who started this.

[Kerset]

Kerset, can you answer 512?

sry
Ali is less serious and I took this as teasing.

[Kerset]

Most of 612 could be described as: mastina shaded bitmap, bitmap disagreed with that, mastina feels that her reads are discredited
Bitmap was replying to shade that he received. Mastina you said by yourself that bitmap was in defense there. What did you expect to see from him? Did you really hope that he won't debunk your theories?

[Kerset]

I mean I know I'm only being pushed because scum team is afraid of RC.

Why does Bitmap make this post in response to such minimal pressure from me when he hasn't called me scum elsewhere?

It's a response that doesn't make sense naturally from some persecution complex. He has adopted the victim mindset in order to defend himself.

Could then say what kind of behavior would you except from him? Would aggression be correct one? Maybe he should avoid this topic? What would be natural one?

[Kerset]

Jingle

Gamma Emerald

Alisae

Chemist1422

Shadoweh

hitogoroshi

Klick

mastina

Bitmap

ofrhz

Menalque

jjh927

Kerset

How do i read this thing?

[Kerset]

why not sheep me on it?

because I’m not locktowning you and it defeats the purpose of putting in a ton of effort if I throw it away to sheep someone

I'm not saying sheep me forever

I'm just saying give a bro a hand in getting a wagon going if you don't think your vote is doing anything that useful on ofhrz rn

Appeal to emotion, isn't it?

[Kerset]

Obviously I am biased but like, this is a really terrible post right? Bitmap vs. mastina is the fire at the heart of things, and Shadoweh has the soft condemn of "I think we should ignore it" and at least kinda-sorta implying it's TVT - but without hard comitting to a TR on either one, reaching out to one side or the other, trying to peel voters off their wagons (if no one likes me, that should be pretty doable!), whatever.

Could you compare shadow and menalque? They both didn't make hard stance or peel voters as you describe. Mena made light push in 776 and keep his vote on lurker. One is your main (or one of main) townread and the other your main scumread.
Btw i wouldn't scumread neither of them with your methods

[Kerset]

VOTE: mastina

[Kerset]

I mean I know I'm only being pushed because scum team is afraid of RC.

Why does Bitmap make this post in response to such minimal pressure from me when he hasn't called me scum elsewhere?

It's a response that doesn't make sense naturally from some persecution complex. He has adopted the victim mindset in order to defend himself.

Could then say what kind of behavior would you except from him? Would aggression be correct one? Maybe he should avoid this topic? What would be natural one?

I would expect him not to crumble to the pressure of being the second of three names that I considered scum. But he kneejerked and immediately went to discredit my readslist and then made that post. He felt pressured. He felt the need to defend himself, but not with arguments or counterarguments but with discredits and claiming to be a victim. It's a classic scum flail- perhaps close to a disproportionate reaction for even that unless my reads are all right too.

This is negative definition. I still want to know, how does bitmaps natural reaction look like? Do you know his meta?

[Kerset]

Have you seen Overlord

no

can y'all stop talking about your shitty shounens for two seconds im trying to talk about mafia

My favorite animes is better then your favorite anime!

It's got similarish kind of vibes to slime so you should watch it

what i rly liked about slime was that it was basically civ 5 the anime is overlord like that

Overlord has a lot of worldbuilding to it and is mostly about the interactions between the main character's group and everyone else. I am confident that liking overlord and liking that time I got reincarnated as a slime are closely correlated

Also I like Overlord more but that might be because it has 3 seasons

This two anime are like two different routes in undertale.

[Kerset]

From precious season, Shinchou Yuusha: Kono Yuusha ga Ore Tsueee Kuse ni Shinchou Sugiru was cool.

[Kerset]

previous

[Kerset]

Kerset, can you talk about why you're townreading Bitmap?

I recently played mini theme with bitmap in which he had RC as neighbor. Up until his gladiatorial mode he gave very relatable impression. Farkran, who was also there second handed it for me, so it was good enough. The other thing was that he got played down to proxy by other players, which is more likely scum agenda towards town, rather then SvS or town towards scum.

[Kerset]

What is the point of V/LA, if bitmap posts anyway?

[Kerset]

But this seems like insincere bluster, since I'm at a cool L-4 with no pressure, and the only thing that changed since Shadoweh's frustrated 630 was a single additional vote from ofr. Do you really think you'd sit in Shadoweh's shoes, read this enormous mastina/Bitmap shitfit, and think "Lucky me! hito's the one destined to die today, and I didn't even have to do anything"? If you had to rate players in the game from most to least likely to die this D1, where do you rank me? It seems way more coherent that Shadoweh just doesn't want to do much because she is scum and the game is going the way she wants and she just has to find a safe place to chill out.

I wonder, what alisae thinks then. Jingle is even less scumreaded then you. 897

[Kerset]

Although jingle sounds more solvy, then earlier. Did he get worse by any means?

[Kerset]

Tripod destroyed anime but we fixed it.

[Kerset]

There's too many floaty generalisations people have made about how Bitmap plays or has played this game that simply aren't true.

What about generalisations, which where made about mastina?

[Kerset]

VOTE: mastina

this game lacks spice

You are one of the most passive players around here. Back in 689 you were townreading mastina. Then you moved to scumreading her but you didn't show any progression or effort in solving her.

[Kerset]

You better be able to show me something

Mostly Alisae

[Kerset]

Who is tr-ing Kees and why?

I do! Kerset is UwU.

[Kerset]

Show me Alisae making a generalisation about Mastina that you think is inaccurate

Wait you didn't ask for my UwU photos? Ech
I don't know mastina as a player, so i can't tell whenever its generalizations are accurate or not. Still you pull things, which are one-sided and it makes me think that you wanted to pull this rather then throw this out of your awareness.
First things that i can quote, without rereading whole game.

Spoiler:

mastina, can you stop making funny jokes? My team is dying of laughter in the discord channels.

Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. You and your team are honestly a true inspiration of what it's like to not be pro-town in this game.

Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.

Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.

don't get into this fight with mastina
- its unproductive
- you're wasting your energy
- thread health goes down
- its extremely petty

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

Earlier I thought it was weird that u didn’t scumread me since u always do when we’re both town.
Now I’m absolutely 100% convinced
I don’t think u have a read on me at all
I think u just know I’m town because r scum
VOTE: mastina

[Kerset]

If you look at hito, he was able to apply his methods to both Mena and Shadow, because he is unsure about alignments and check every person with them. When jjh was analyzing each person around here, he picked person and then found faulty.

[Kerset]

Self-reflections that maybe your side is also wrong in the way other is.

[Kerset]

Sure yesterday you put me as town. After i pointed your flaw in scumhunting, you suddenly found enough content to turn this upside down.

[Kerset]

You still didn't noticed that this question was made to get insight about your credibility. I wasn't interested in debunking your point against bitmap as it was just subjective feeling.

[Kerset]

Mastina read on you looks like a lazy version of my read on you that I haven't explained outside of my head yet

She always scumreads me when we’re town.
ALWAYS

It's frustrating because I wanna be able to say some meta thing too except one that makes you be wrong but the meta thing in my case is that me and Mastina probably just townread each other all the time

Totally

"nothing"

[Kerset]

Kerset definitely wasn't expecting to have to elaborate on it at all.

Sorry i left precognition in my alter-ego. I can't prepare quotes ahead of time, when you are the one, who started this topic.

What do you think that is an example of

Ge_er_l_zation. Take guess.

[Kerset]

You and ali are saying that mastina is always scumreading/townreading you.

[Kerset]

Stop changing the subject. It is not about rating the generalization. It is about the fact that you didn't consider this as possibility in both directions. Your scumreading worked in favor of attacking bitmap and no other purpose, because you refused to consider povs. Other possibility obviously existed and with some time i show you such posts. It is something like saying that X is a scum because he never votes, when there are 3 players, who does the same thing. Genuine person will look through every person to see whenever they make votes as all. Evil person will call out his desired target for lack of voting and ignore other people for sake of his agenda.

[Kerset]

There's too many floaty generalisations people have made about how Bitmap plays or has played this game that simply aren't true.

What about generalisations, which where made about mastina?

Show me Alisae making a generalisation about Mastina that you think is inaccurate

Wait you didn't ask for my UwU photos? Ech
I don't know mastina as a player, so i can't tell whenever its generalizations are accurate or not. Still you pull things, which are one-sided and it makes me think that you wanted to pull this rather then throw this out of your awareness.
First things that i can quote, without rereading whole game.

Spoiler:

mastina, can you stop making funny jokes? My team is dying of laughter in the discord channels.

Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. You and your team are honestly a true inspiration of what it's like to not be pro-town in this game.

Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.

Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.

don't get into this fight with mastina
- its unproductive
- you're wasting your energy
- thread health goes down
- its extremely petty

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

Earlier I thought it was weird that u didn’t scumread me since u always do when we’re both town.
Now I’m absolutely 100% convinced
I don’t think u have a read on me at all
I think u just know I’m town because r scum
VOTE: mastina

In 1106, JJH said that people were giving vague generalizations to

townread

Bitmap and those were bad reasons to townread Bitmap for.

These Alisae quotes you quoted are reasons to

scumread

mastina. That analogy doesn't work, because the generalization is working in a different direction and besides jjh isn't scumreading mastina. Vague reasons to scumread mastina should probably only serve to reinforce jjh's read there. Basically, how do you expect jjh to have reconsidered his reads based on these quotes?

Also to clear the air real quick, do you like post 685 by Alisae or not? How does this post impact your own read on mastina?

I'm not sure if there are some internally inconsistent thoughts here or if there's some language barrier that I'm not getting through.

You get a cake for processing this.
Jjh claimed that people are off about bitmap, because of generalization. The universal approach of this says that different people are off about -insert someone-, because of generalization. As you see in 1122 i used term 'side'. I was referring there to people, which might have their reads off about mastina, i wasn't referring to just jjh himself. Just like jjh wasn't talking about his read on bitmap.
By itself i am not sure how serious is 685 or which parts are serious or not. I am still working on this.

[Kerset]

I think definitely do indicate alignment and I'm particularly interested in what happens after Kerset reappears following disappearing mid conversation

I was talking with you for a hour and you didn't make any mental progress. If this was the mid for you then there is no hope for you.
To be more serious i don't believe that your intentions in this exchange are to learn anything. You want to omgbus and make questions for sake of casus beli. You pretty much showed this as soon as you left your comfort zone.

[Kerset]

Chemist you missed 1111

[Kerset]

Legends of Hidden Speakeasy II

Also I have reads from NSG but it’s mixed in with RC since we were discussing about it in discord. I’ll paraphrase it later when I’m home from work.

Did you get the chance to do this?

So RC thinks we can find scum but thinks the gamestate is at a point where giving reads is not a good time right now. He thinks when we or when anyone else catches scum, it'll be pretty easy for scum to push either my slot or mastina. This needs to be resolved before there can be any serious approach to hunting for scum.
Even if Mastina is town we should just lynch her if the 1v1 keeps going, and even if she's scum we would take the forced ceasefire so that we can actually gamesolve and as her pro-town option.

NSG has no intention of giving reads right now as well until this whole thing settles.

Sure but you probably shouldn't make something a bigger thing than it is in a post in which you say you're trying to deescalate and make it less of a thing

So basically:
Bitmap got read from RC, back in time when the '1v1' was main topic.
He got asked for it but had no time to say it.
He post it later.
You blame him for derailing your current topic.

[Kerset]

You know ofrhz said the same thing I did but in different words right

You can say this about any question that someone makes. You tired everything you could.

[Kerset]

I'll put it in words that cannot be misunderstood

I scumread Bitmap
Other people are townreading him for shitty generalisations that are being used as counterarguments to the main reasons I scumread him
I have stated that these arguments are bad, and furthermore why I think they are bad, and that there appear to be quite a lot of them
This is in order to convince other people they are wrong

The examples you have provided about generalisations about Mastina basically amount to Alisae saying Mastina should scumread Alisae. I don't think this is a very good argument either.

If you think people might have their reads off about Mastina because of generalisations such as that one, then WHY ARE YOU VOTING MASTINA

Stop changing the subject. It is not about rating the generalization. It is about the fact that you didn't consider this as possibility in both directions. Your scumreading worked in favor of attacking bitmap and no other purpose, because you refused to consider povs. Other possibility obviously existed and with some time i show you such posts. It is something like saying that X is a scum because he never votes, when there are 3 players, who does the same thing. Genuine person will look through every person to see whenever they make votes as all. Evil person will call out his desired target for lack of voting and ignore other people for sake of his agenda.

so as i said

I was talking with you for a hour and you didn't make any mental progress. If this was the mid for you then there is no hope for you.
To be more serious i don't believe that your intentions in this exchange are to learn anything. You want to omgbus and make questions for sake of casus beli. You pretty much showed this as soon as you left your comfort zone.

[Kerset]

I feel so demotivated to play this game. No one beside me put thoughts in to this. Everyone just make reads based on personal relations and sheep whoever they like. Relation between mastina and jjh is so obviously sinister. Still after 58 pages people are only looking at their personal targets and take no efforts to solve the background. I don't except players to solve this game by now or look away from me. I am rather sure penguin could post all players abilities right here and people would just scroll their eyes through it without reading. Then they would nod get back to their business, without any concern what those abilities were. This is the kind of commitment that people outside of scum agenda have.

[Kerset]

Also @jjh what’s the long and short on why you TR mastina and scumread kerset and bitmap?

Do you have no support from your team? Like we are in TM and you act like null info guy. Do you actually don't know or are you trying to find place for yourself to fit.

[Kerset]

{Mena Hito Shadoweh mastina jjh Klick}
{Chemiboi, Jingle}
{ofhrz}
{Reundo}
{Kerset, Bitmap}

Wait I thought you were SRing mastina? Also why is klick up at top and chemboi isn’t?

I realized jjh is town and did a 180
Klick is townposting and chemboi is still like towny but not as strong to me anymore but its still towny

How is jjh and mastina connected? People implying that same reads means same alignment give me headache.

[Kerset]

Are you surprised by pops' not townreading you here?

Does she? I don't take alisae account as reliable. She didn't use pops read up until the point, where turning 180 was convenient for her.

[Kerset]

Did NSG read 1697 which I just posted

Because I think Kerset's votes with context absolutely scream scum

Your bad solving screams scum. You don't even know, why is it AI. You would grab knife's blade, if we would tell you that it is a solution.

[Kerset]

NSG wanted to know everyone's opinions on her reads.

First of all. There was multiple use of "we want to lynch scum". It is kind of red flag for me, because liars are the ones, who use those assurances.
For content itself. I don't see how could someone townlock ofrhz, there seems to be not enough hard stances made by her pre 1425 for a lock. Chemist is quite controversial scrumread. He seems to be meta-based townreaded, so too bad that nsg didn't elaborate where did this come from. I could see nsg think the way nsg thinks about jingle.

[Kerset]

Votecount 1.19
mastina (4): Bitmap, Kerset, Chemist1422, Reundo Kerset (3): jjh927, Jingle, mastina Reundo (1): Menalque

...Looking at the names on the wagon.
Literally the towniest name there is Chemist and the entire rest of the wagoners sucks ass and even Chemist is pretty fully aware that his vote wasn't the best.

Do you know what does it prove? That your reads are fully based on votes, not the opposite. Bitmap is the only one, who was scumreaded by you BEFORE you were voted by him. Nice coincidence, isn't it?

[Kerset]

jjh I know is a read I have tried to deliberately avoid getting but it should be painfully ridiculously obvious that it is a huge townread--jjh's thoughts lining up with my own, and his reasonable nature, his logic, just the resonance and sheer "that's damn good"ness of them, are things that make him very very strongly town. Now, he said it best; if this falls off later, then it would be a red flag to instantly reevaluate his slot. But failing that, if the type of things he is doing today, continue throughout the game...then I am still pretty confident that this is his towngame.

Mastina is so obviously pocketing jjh. Even newbie would notice this by now. Up from the beginning of this game she was building this up and it is still going on.

[Kerset]

Spoiler:

Konichiwa mina-san I was informed the game began and since I'm way too busy watching Phoenix Wright with cute girls to read this my team left me some notes:

- They are very jealous of this playerlist get fucked bitches
- chemist is town, ofrhz is prob town, jjh is possibly scum
- mastina should be put in quarentine (I would always put mastina in quarentine I literally don't think I've ever read a mastina post and thought she was town tbh)

Arigato nakama I will actually read this ashita! Desu uwu

I don't trust you. We are awesome and you wouldn't just leave us. Get back here evil one.
VOTE: shadow

First vote. Not much more to say.

I guess i should update this as well
VOTE: ofrhz

Second vote. Immediately followed the posting of a readslist which you asked for. On close examination, I think there might be something fucky going on with the timings on when that was posted. There was 1 minute and 21 seconds between Kerset's previous post and that readslist, provided on request for his top scumread. I don't know how long anyone else takes to make readslists but that seems inordinately fast. And then of course he changes his vote because he has to keep up with his reads. Which are awfully conveniently aligned with the emerging ofrhz wagon.

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

Votecount 1.08
Klick (4): Alisae, Menalque, hitogoroshi, mastina ofrhz (3): Chemist1422, jjh927, Jingle Shadoweh (2): Kerset, Bitmap hitogoroshi (2): Shadoweh, Klick Kerset (1): ofrhz Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

Note: Jingle is bolded as he moved his vote to ofrhz between the votecount being posted and Kerset's vote.

VOTE: mastina

This was Kerset's last vote. I think it's interesting that it didn't get shifted to me at any point in the little back and forth we had.

Votecount 1.13
hitogoroshi (3): Shadoweh, Klick, ofrhz mastina (3): Jingle, Bitmap, Alisae Bitmap (2): mastina, jjh927 Gamma Emerald (2): Menalque, Chemist1422 ofrhz (1): Kerset Shadoweh (1): hitogoroshi Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

Prove of nothing. Really, you are just tryharding to find evidence and result in nothing. I vote the best option and don't move until i find better one. You are the one who find me scum, i find you dummyscummy. Mastina is still top scum, no matter her break or how hard you try to distract me from her. So what that i posted my readlist 1 minute and 21 seconds after previous post? I was typing reply to both klick and ofrhz at the same time, because they both required me to reread things. What is it indicative of?

[Kerset]

Is mastina scum or is jjh scum? Or are they both scum?

Ask pengiun. For me the best bet is mastina.

[Kerset]

Spoiler:

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

you mean this right? why is this scum!indicative for mastina?

Also @jjh what’s the long and short on why you TR mastina and scumread kerset and bitmap?

Shadoweh Chemist Mena Kerset Bitmap
Hito Klick
GE jjh ofhrz
mastina jingle

this is pretty close to my list

I'd swap Kerset and klick and probably ofrhz and jingle

Let’s start here

separating it into 5 tiers gives something like
{Chemist, Ali, Shadoweh, Klick}
{Mena, Kerset, Bit}
{Hito, jjh, jingle}
{GE (Reundo), mastina}
{ofrhz}

this is what I’m gonna start working from with the top line being the only confident ones

Okay so like why is she in the tier below mastina and reundo?

{Mena Hito Shadoweh mastina jjh Klick}
{Chemiboi, Jingle}
{ofhrz}
{Reundo}
{Kerset, Bitmap}

Wait I thought you were SRing mastina? Also why is klick up at top and chemboi isn’t?

Bitmap what are your reads atm?

Like my own personal reads?

Yes

[bitmap]
[Kerset, Klick, Shadoweh]
[Reundo, Jingle, ofrhz, Mena, Alisae, Chemist] <- Null
[hito, jj]
[mastina]

I’m p sure I’ve seen something about the mastina and jjh thing in your iso

Can you explain why your town reads are up out of null for me?

Mena you took your time to gather thoughts about mastina but never gave option about her. She was relevant enough to be topic of discussion but not for option. Why did you skip it?

[Kerset]

As for Reundo feel free to lynch him. I feel no empathy for lurkers.

[Kerset]

What? VT in mini theme? Sounds like bs.

[Kerset]

In game like this you would rather get negative utility then blank VT.

[Kerset]

What? VT in mini theme? Sounds like bs.

???

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a role madness mini theme run here

What kind of statement is it!? You played one with me. Don't be ridiculous.

[Kerset]

You think that reundo is scum, but ALSO that Alisae is as well? And you have Alisae and bitmap *together* in the scum tier? who the hell do you think reundo is partners with here? no thoughts on shadoweh not listening to your reason to unvote me, or me keeping a bead on her so long? Just L-2 on the low-hanging fruit while making it all sound like your own idea.

your tone here suggests to me that you think those reads are bizarre. To me that comes up as a red flag because I don't see as scum why she imploys that strategy when its easier to just put the whole bloc as town

Have thoughts on this but it makes more sense to wait and hear what ofrhz says first. I think you're kinda missing what I think the suspicious thing is but if you are that means ofrhz might also, which means we could get an answer that's really revealing in either direction.

Gotta agree with ofr in that the Kerset views on mastina/jjh seem really underdetermined. If mastina is pocketing jjh so obviously that even a newbie would notice by now, then jjh is town! It kinda seems like you want to just quote individual posts you don't like in isolation, but the whole point is that peoples actions need to be interpreted in the context of how they interact with everyone else. Kerset, maybe a more productive way to have this discussion is - who are your strongest

townreads

, and what do you think they're missing on mastina? What do jjh/mastina flips makes you think about the other one?

Top would be most likely bitmap, klick, shadow but they are all weak townreads. Klick and shadow are bad at catching up and they barely take effort here. Bitmap is not missing things.
jj red - his dumb and he was was SvS with alisae
jjh green - his dumb but also masti is more likely red
mastina green - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
mastina red - this solves other people then jjh

As for Reundo feel free to lynch him. I feel no empathy for lurkers.

Even when this wagon was conjured up by basically your worst enemies? If I daycopped Reundo red right now, who are your picks for his buddies?

He is such weak spot that any scum would bus him as teammate. It is naive to think that weak players get protection in competitive game. About daycopp - chemist.

[Kerset]

BTW if reundo doesn't come back in 24 hours i will execute him

[Kerset]

Yea lets keep narrative that saying scummy between lines with 0 effort has same weight as push. You know that i was talking about this:

VOTE: mastina

VOTE: Kerset.

VOTE: mastina

VOTE: Reundo

don't toy with semantics by flipping meaning of my post.

[Kerset]

And also, in TM you objectively want to rand scum because winning as scum is better for reducing the tiebreakers of other teams than winning as town.

Being scum is an advantage.

Didn't all of games end as town wins in previous TM?

[Kerset]

Why is that scummy Kers?

1729 it is about credibility not being scum

[Kerset]

Hey look reundo is still gone. Are we really going to wait another day for his second prod or comeback? We have 4 days left, if he just make one crap post right before prod, then this is basically the last thing he has to do on day 1. You took pressure away from him, which was the last tool to make use of him. Now you will look for other topics and let him go under radar. You even ensured him that you won't lynch him until you get more information, which gives him comfort to lurk even more.
VOTE: reundo

[Kerset]

@hito
Your idea in general can be applied but is it valid on him? I was looking bitmap ISO of his previous games and i haven't spotted his "desire to get anyone else on board". Can you find that?

[Kerset]

I played mini theme with bitmap. Back there RC gave us reads and died. Bitmap decided to just follow RC reads and keep insist on lynching RCs scumread. This is the kind of thing he does:

I don't like the Chemist slot.

Maybe we should just all claim today...

RC left a small list of who we should lynch today.

RC said we should lynch Alchemist + Chemist today btw.

I wanna sheep the dead guy who nailed 2 scum.

Do we need any other reason besides sheeping RC?

Lets be real here.

Pretty sure we win if we just lynch Chemist, Alchemist, and Gamma.

Is this determination that you would expect?

[Kerset]

Mena if you are vig then kill mastina. As ascetic there is no way, you get blocked so result will be legit.

[Kerset]

ok this is obv VOTE: mena

[Kerset]

Kerset I want you to claim your role and actions

I am JOAT of 3 one shot abilities. I used
n1 friendly neighbor on jjh
n2 commute
now chemist your turn to claim

[Kerset]

RC leaves a message here.

-------------------------

Kerset is the scum for a bunch of reasons.

1) Why the fuck would Kerset have done a friendly neighbor on jjh when he clearly had him as scum in {mastina/jjh}. It makes no sense outside of being the possible nightkill so no one has to support that claim. Also, Kerset and his D1 play doesn't resemble the play of someone who can have access to friendly neighbor. They would have been not worried about getting scumread because they can just claim and get townread.

Now it is easy to because you know that he was nightkilled. On n1 i assumed that person, who is preparing a mislynch will live for sure. The thing is that jjh was the scumreading me not the other way. Sure i didn't townread him but i was far from voting him. Is this the scumreading you are talking about?

Spoiler:

jjh I know is a read I have tried to deliberately avoid getting but it should be painfully ridiculously obvious that it is a huge townread--jjh's thoughts lining up with my own, and his reasonable nature, his logic, just the resonance and sheer "that's damn good"ness of them, are things that make him very very strongly town. Now, he said it best; if this falls off later, then it would be a red flag to instantly reevaluate his slot. But failing that, if the type of things he is doing today, continue throughout the game...then I am still pretty confident that this is his towngame.

Mastina is so obviously pocketing jjh. Even newbie would notice this by now. Up from the beginning of this game she was building this up and it is still going on.

or maybe ?

Spoiler:

Konichiwa mina-san I was informed the game began and since I'm way too busy watching Phoenix Wright with cute girls to read this my team left me some notes:

- They are very jealous of this playerlist get fucked bitches
- chemist is town, ofrhz is prob town, jjh is possibly scum
- mastina should be put in quarentine (I would always put mastina in quarentine I literally don't think I've ever read a mastina post and thought she was town tbh)

Arigato nakama I will actually read this ashita! Desu uwu

I don't trust you. We are awesome and you wouldn't just leave us. Get back here evil one.
VOTE: shadow

First vote. Not much more to say.

I guess i should update this as well
VOTE: ofrhz

Second vote. Immediately followed the posting of a readslist which you asked for. On close examination, I think there might be something fucky going on with the timings on when that was posted. There was 1 minute and 21 seconds between Kerset's previous post and that readslist, provided on request for his top scumread. I don't know how long anyone else takes to make readslists but that seems inordinately fast. And then of course he changes his vote because he has to keep up with his reads. Which are awfully conveniently aligned with the emerging ofrhz wagon.

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

Votecount 1.08
Klick (4): Alisae, Menalque, hitogoroshi, mastina ofrhz (3): Chemist1422, jjh927, Jingle Shadoweh (2): Kerset, Bitmap hitogoroshi (2): Shadoweh, Klick Kerset (1): ofrhz Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

Note: Jingle is bolded as he moved his vote to ofrhz between the votecount being posted and Kerset's vote.

VOTE: mastina

This was Kerset's last vote. I think it's interesting that it didn't get shifted to me at any point in the little back and forth we had.

Votecount 1.13
hitogoroshi (3): Shadoweh, Klick, ofrhz mastina (3): Jingle, Bitmap, Alisae Bitmap (2): mastina, jjh927 Gamma Emerald (2): Menalque, Chemist1422 ofrhz (1): Kerset Shadoweh (1): hitogoroshi Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

Prove of nothing. Really, you are just tryharding to find evidence and result in nothing. I vote the best option and don't move until i find better one. You are the one who find me scum, i find you dummyscummy. Mastina is still top scum, no matter her break or how hard you try to distract me from her. So what that i posted my readlist 1 minute and 21 seconds after previous post? I was typing reply to both klick and ofrhz at the same time, because they both required me to reread things. What is it indicative of?

You are trying to pull crap on me because you desperately want to save your bitmap. I told you my standpoint on jjh and don't try pull any language barrier on me.
Jjh was the best option, because it would show mastina reaction to it. She had a lot of trust in him, so i wanted to see how opportunistic this trust was. Also jjh was awful reader and tunneler, so targeting him would skip the problem of convincing him that FN is real.

2) You're all assigning town credibility by being on the wagon but instead it's the fucking opposite. As I said before, if Mena's vote is the first vote on the wagon and hard pushing it you can be goddamn sure that his other partner will also be on the wagon as well. Reundo pretty much just outright given up on this game. Strongman or not, scum were'nt going to put themselves in a shitty position by risking to defend him and thus the positions that make the most sense for scum are the early votes. If for some miracle, for some reason, Jingle is somehow conftown, that leaves prettty much kerset and did I forget to mention that his interactions with Reundo were terrible? The "lurkers get no sympathy from me" is bad and 1913 is so disgustingly SvS looking post.

3) Your positions as a group in this game just suck.

Klick isn't scum.
Shadoweh isn't scum.
We're not scum.
Mastina isn't scum
Ofrhz isn't scum.

We don't know what ever reasoning mechanically that you're using to clear people outside of all of that but Kerset can easily be claiming commuter as an ascetic role and the reasoning that they claimed friendly neighbor on a target WHO IS DEAD with ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of being in an ISO in thread doesn't bode well with me.

It is proveable that i am not ascetic, as i don't have second shot of commuter for sure. What is the point of this concern? Better tell my how did you confirm chemist? For now he counterclaimed mena, when he was cornered and confirmed that failed to target me after i revealed my commute. Chem is not suspicious bc of it but your selection of names is weird.

[Kerset]

I am catching up so I will leave readlist list:
town
mastina - confirmed
hito - very likely to be confirmed
ofrhz - I don't really see scum, who would go out and say that he is vigilante. What would he be afraid of? He didn't know whenever there is other vig around. Maybe SK could be a thing but there is really not enough evidence to say it.
chemist - He seems to be investigate JOAT, which is a real possibility but i still remember his counterwagoning to reundo. He should prove himself with his third ability.
klick - He is not trying to solve this game. We had jailkeep and protection from inventor. He is in grey null area for me.
shadoweh - Not very active over here. It would be really strange game to have 3 scum, who decided to play this in inactive way.
I would say that last scum is in {jingle, bitmap}. At first i thought that nk1 was made to frame me but maybe bitmap killed him after all. Also the fact that bitmap team is being overly survivalist as VT is a scumtell. Farkran thinks that 1440 points at scum!jingle, because Mena was deliberately lurking. "he was being quiet here in order to hide from Jingle in the other game. Which is why he was lurking.
Because if it was scum Mena in both games with town Jingle he'd have to continue lurking the rest of this one or playing it differently enough.
I'm sure he could do it.
But he didn't have to vanish for a couple of days."

[Kerset]

I thought you were town because NSG had two flipped scum in her PoE

Also I liked NSG’s scumread on Alisae

So why did you pick alisae? Did nsg just convinced you?

[Kerset]

Maybe this is because I've been dealing with you scumreading me all week hito but I think you seize on something you don't understand and decide it must be that way because they're scum <<
(it would be fair for you to call me a hypocrite for saying this since I basically did it to you back)

I think RitCap is really easy to hate in these circumstances, I super, SUPER get why you don't like his posts. I would love to be there with you guys thinking he's the scummiest person on the planet but I'm pretty sure hollistically, with the way Team Mafia is set up, ignoring the clear towntell it gifted us would be wrong. He's really not scum, no matter how much you will him to be for having a pity party.

I certainly didn't say we don't have scumreads. Dunn just thinks its more worth not lynching to let them work then accidentally lynching a real one because we're so stacked.

Do you have any scumreads? I don't see you offering anything to this game. This whole time you are only coaching us without providing any content.

[Kerset]

Sure i can claim, what happened to me. I received a talisman, i am loved now.
My n3 ability is only useful for verifying certain things. The only use of it will be if i claim it later. Chemist haven't proven is role at all so far, so he should go before me.

[Kerset]

If my predictions are right about you then we might get 2 TR rather then 1, so you/hito should think this thought. In single-scum hunt TI result are confirmed anyway but TI itself will be only if he knew things beforehand.
The other scenario is where you are unconfirmed forever, which has no benefits.

[Kerset]

I am fine with it. We can do this now.

[Kerset]

My third ability is visitor
I used it on shadoweh.

[Kerset]

To summaries:
I am compulsive JOAT of 3 abilities {FN, commute, visitor}
For n1 i picked FN on jjh
For n2 i picked commute
For n3 i picked visitor on shadoweh

Also during n3 i received talisman, which made me loved.

[Kerset]

His role was supposed to be able to verify klick. Tracker and watcher are out, so he had to be follower. This role was only useful on me and klick: On klick it would verify his healing abilities, on me it would verify my 3rd ability and the fact that i am not ascetic. As long as my ability was unknown and klick decision to use his ability or not was unknown, he couldn't use public knowledge for his role again.

[Kerset]

I still not sure about 3 things:
1. Chemist, does your power work on fractional kill? Are you able to tell that klick didn't make a kill?
2. Hito is your vest a N2 vest, because it was summoned on N1? Or maybe it was stated that this will only work on N2 regardless?
3 It was asked before: Chemist are you compulsive joat?

[Kerset]

Then we should add klick to townlocks.

[Kerset]

I will elaborate things later but i think that ofrhz is the most sketchy roleclaim. Still scumpower is more likely to be strong but wasted, then being revealed. Like redirect on person, who had no action.

[Kerset]

Hito actions seems to be good. As scum on n1 he could target mena, who was publicly townreaded but he didn't which is good sigh.

If everyone could poke teammates for thoughts on 2373 and 2359 that'd be super sexy.

Well Farkran is still salty, because we lynched bitmap and didn't listen to him yesterday.

Spoiler: Fark

Farkran thinks that 1440 points at scum!jingle, because Mena was deliberately lurking. "he was being quiet here in order to hide from Jingle in the other game. Which is why he was lurking.
Because if it was scum Mena in both games with town Jingle he'd have to continue lurking the rest of this one or playing it differently enough.
I'm sure he could do it.
But he didn't have to vanish for a couple of days."

Anyway he thinks that vig claim is bs.

[Kerset]

Continuing: Klick is the only his confirmed town. Hito is weaker version of doc, a bit like buffed fruit vendor. Hated and loved are completely useless. Aside from ofrhz, he thinks that the two flipped scum were pretty powerful and that would justify high town power assuming the last scum was some ninja multitasking rolecop. Therefore it would be proper play lynching in the VTs (jingle > shadoweh) if ofrhz flips town. VT claims came after all PR claims and after alisae validated VT existence (locking them out of options to claim without overlapping). In general, he doesn't think chemist bus on menalque holds any water anyways. Menalque was dead the moment he claimed vig, burying him is only for towncred. There's that bit of TMI when he said ker commuted rather than accusing ker of being ascetic. It implies that he knew about kill immunity. Still 1shot vig as unconfirmable claim? Sounds ballsy enough to come from desperate scum in 1v1

[Kerset]

1 Shot Strongman
2 Shot Roleblocker
Multitasking Ninja Rolecop

JOAT (FN/Commute/Visit)
JOAT (Track/Watch/Follow)
N2 Vig
2 Shot Doc
2 Shot Alien
Loyal Neighborizor
3 Shot Inventor (Loved/BP/Hated)
3x VT

To clarify, this is your proposed Setup, Kers?

Why did you target jj D1? Why did you commute N2?

No, it is not my proposed setup. It is a setup proposed by my teammate as you asked for it.

I said already my reason in 2287. As for commute i didn't really have any better option. I had to use either this or delay it by using visit. People really didn't like me and i thought that jjh death will make it even worse for me, so at least i didn't want to die from vig shot. Use of commute on n1 was also out of question, because i wanted to clear myself with fn as soon as possible.

[Kerset]

FTR I am also salty because you lynched bitmap and didn't listen to me, and hearing 'scum shadoweh had lots of reasons' instead of hito acknowledging my reasoning for clearing him is annoying. (please actually talk to Kittymo since we can't really talk about crossgame in the thread) If its not Jingle then I'm terribly concerned for how this is going to go tbh.

You don't have high ground here. I asked you for scumreads yesterday and you didn't give us anything. You only suggested no-lynch. With that i am sure mastina would be still dead and we would have unsolved bitmap around.

[Kerset]

I was second person to be lynched on day 1. I didn't know that mastina will catch a scum and this is going to be topic of this day. The most likely scenario for me was that i will be wagoned like in day 1.
If you are almost lynched on day 1 and have a tool to prove that you are innocent, then you obviously use it. Otherwise i would be placed on L-1 on day 2 and forced to claim. Would people believe me that I had FN and used visit instead???
As long as jjh would reveal that I used FN on him, he didn't need to live. I wanted him to reveal it, so I can bait kill with my commute.
What would you do with my role? Use FN after commute to make late and more legit?

[Kerset]

Moving on, why was I the most likely to be investigated? For me people the most likely to be checked are those which:
1. Are not high TR
2 are not most likely to be lynched
You don't bother checking lynch target, because if they are scum they are lynched anyway. Especially in role madness, where clears are not 100% sure.
Your whole analysis is based on reading this game backwards.

[Kerset]

You said you were likely to be vigged, which overlaps entirely with the investigation pool.

Assuming instead that vig is likely, why try to stop the vig on yourself when it doesn’t actually make you more believable as town?

And yes, I’m going back with new information to try to understand your thought process, because that’s the only way to judge your actions at this point.

SR are those you shoot, middle reads are those you check. Keep trying harder.
Day 2 lasted barely a single real-life hour. Do you really think that i can plan everything in such fast-paced changing environment? When day started my plan was that i am going to be IC and this day will last more then 48 hours. The thing is that you don't even care or consider it. You are trying to point at any faulty you can because you saw that hito placed you in kill list with me. You hope that constant shade on me will let you survive longer.

[Kerset]

@Kers: my plan as scum is to ask about motivations of a player who hito already wants to kill before me to live longer? Do you wanna explain that?

Also, what does your intentions being different coming into d2 have to do with your motivations n2? I want to know what you were thinking after both the jj and mena flips. If anything, I’d assume you’d have more recollection of your thoughts when your expectations were smashed.

I already explained all of those, so you are not trying to understand my motivations. You are digging for any reason you can find to get me lynched, so you don't die.

[Kerset]

Still jingle, it remains unknown what kind of actions would you take? Who would you kill as vig on n2?

[Kerset]

But like, seriously, why does scumofhrz kill Ali? Ali is tunneled on bitmap and was the one to start bitmap as counter to Reundo again. Es basically a free mislynch.

This is the whole point of claiming vig as scum. You make a weak kill to make it believable and hope that town will assume that real kill was prevented by doc/vest. You can't kill townread and expect people to believe that you make silly vigkill.

[Kerset]

It’s totally more reasonable that last scum ofhrz shoots the person tunneled on a mislynch who was themselves an obvious mislynch and commits to it N2 to make a shitty fakeclaim possible when shooting me or you makes the same fakeclaim possible without getting rid of a tvt fight.

If he is scum then you make better tvt then ali for sure. If you deeply believe that he made correct vig kill then it means that he did a good job at selecting his target. Dead town is dead town, mastina was the only revealed PR at the time.

Not to mention Ali was like the last person who would’ve given mastina a bp, so any other other murky town shot would’ve been potentially better for scum by killing a powerful town role they knew existed.

Vest was revealed on day 3. Kill was made on n2. If you knew that "gift" is protection rather then any other power at this point, then good for you.

Then, ofhrz shoots mastina because really, they were actually a rolecop who knew that Hito only gave away a bp for the next night instead of a 1 shot bp or a full bp like mastina claimed. But she didn’t just shoot Hito with this knowledge instead of alisae because that would... not reduce the validity of the big claim in the slightest, Hito was under a ton of suspicion preclaim.

If you use rolecop on n2 then you get your info, after n2kill. It is useful only for n3 kill.

Bonus points: Kerset thought that this game has no VT and he was wrong. It appears that different people think in different ways. I don't know whenever vig exist or not but i suspect to be one. I had to commute on n2 or n3 anyway so odds were in favor.
The whole point of reading is to look at things from proper POV, which is thing that you for some reason can't do. You can't look at things from either different player or different point of time. That is why i am able to read well jjh or bitmap, when others are blinded by relations.

[Kerset]

Continuing: Klick is the only his confirmed town. Hito is weaker version of doc, a bit like buffed fruit vendor. Hated and loved are completely useless. Aside from ofrhz, he thinks that the two flipped scum were pretty powerful and that would justify high town power assuming the last scum was some ninja multitasking rolecop. Therefore it would be proper play lynching in the VTs (jingle > shadoweh) if ofrhz flips town. VT claims came after all PR claims and after alisae validated VT existence (locking them out of options to claim without overlapping). In general, he doesn't think chemist bus on menalque holds any water anyways. Menalque was dead the moment he claimed vig, burying him is only for towncred. There's that bit of TMI when he said ker commuted rather than accusing ker of being ascetic. It implies that he knew about kill immunity. Still 1shot vig as unconfirmable claim? Sounds ballsy enough to come from desperate scum in 1v1

To be clear, is Farkran’s POE the same as yours, kerset?

Almost.

[Kerset]

I'm pretty happy with Kerset > Jingle > Shadow as a solve, to be honest.

Tell me about ofrhz.

[Kerset]

Kers, assuming both of us flip town who is your third?

Ofrhz is my first. If we both flip town after that then this game is over.

[Kerset]

We have a near guarantee there's no sk, because the scum achieve wincon when all MAARF members are dead and at least one scum is alive. It would have to either be an SK who still counts as a MAARF member for purposes of wincon, or an sk that can simultaneously win with scum. Both those options kinda feel beyond the pale for a game like this.

"You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one MAARF member alive." (for legal reasons: this is sample pm wincon, so i didn't copy my pm)
If you count SK as MAARF member then we could still say that he counts as "threat to the town". MAARF and town could not be the same entity.
Still i don't think this is a the case.

[Kerset]

Ofrhz has claim perfectly tailored for scum. Novice explains, why he couldn't shoot on n1. Lack of other bullets means that we can't challenge his claim. During this time we killed two scum players. With last scum left at this early stage the most likely scenario would be that solo tires to make some sort of gamble. There are no rewards for being defeated later on, so scum would only aim for win or lose. He confirmed that there are no vig kills on n1 and n2 so the odds for no vig were high enough to go for it. Perhaps he had shot of redirect to prevent CC, if he did then give me a cookie after this game.
During n2 we knew that mastina is proven town but there was flipped strongman, so some kind of protection was extremely likely. That is kind logic that jingle would never come up with so the options are: double kill, jingle misplay or fake vig kill.
If we drop the idea scum power is redirect (which i don't insist on) and take pure rolecop (which explains mastinas death). N1 target is likely to be mastina. Mena obviously didn't know about masti role, which suggest that his partner was AFK at this time. This also points at ofrhz.
514, 591, 592, 765, 1040, 1227, 1682, 2115, 2322. If you look at ofr progression against bitmap you will see that he always had him low but never sr him. However he was fine with using his teammate reads just for sake of killing alisae (his former townlean). Aside of it bitmap remains as not worth defending.

[Kerset]

bc he posted right before mastina called him out. He had to claim instantly. Do you even look at this game?

[Kerset]

Jingle you are so dumb that i might get banned for insulting you, if i continue typing. Just read this f* game.

I have a soft-guilty on Menalque.

I know we were going for the dream in thinking Reundo-Bitmap-Kerset was the winning combo of three scum, and it's still fully possible that that combo is indeed the correct one, this is a soft-guilty, not a hard-guilty, because there is at least one role that Menalque could be which would explain my 'guilty' result on him and turn it from being a damning result into more of a clearing result--but since there

is

the chance I landed on the deepscum,

I want Menalque to roleclaim in his next post.

Wow what an inspired kill never would have seen that coming

lowkey thought you were going to die

One of the wonders of not being around quite so much on D1 is less NK equity

Yo, Mena.
You're online right now, you literally ninja'd me with this post as I was writing mine.
I have a soft guilty on you.
Please claim your role and action immediately if you want to convince me that you're not deepscum caught.

I'm taking the delay in posting between my declared guilty as confirmation it IS a guilty.
There's an old saying by DGB.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds; fabricating a convincing fakeclaim takes an eternity.
And this sure looks like the eternity.
VOTE: Menalque

[Kerset]

Kerset refusing to acknowledge how completely unlikely this ofhrz gambit is is making me more and more sure kers is scum.

Emptiness in part of your body makes me think that you are not a human.

[Kerset]

Like, yes, Klick could be a multitasking mafia doctor who gambited by claiming to heal mastina and then killing her the next night and then chose to use her power to heal a townie in case she was targeted by a follower.

No, he can't. Chemist confirmed him. How much nonsense are you going to throw at me today?

But making the argument that that is likely to be what happened is fucking stupid. Just like the argument that ofhrz performed a really bad nightkill to setup a maybe vig fakeclaim with very little setup knowledge and then stumbled into a successful kill on a supposedly protected player as a redirector OR had a multitasking rolecop specifically on N2, all while Mena panicked when guiltied with a goddamn rolecop on his team who should obviously have been on the person guiltying him.

, and also didn’t rolecop any of the actual power in the game n1, including mastina who was softclaiming pr like crazy day one

Once again you forget to think logically. Let's look at your theory:
1. It is impossible to stumble into a successful kill on a supposedly protected player without knowledge.
2. There had to be multitasking rolecop specifically on N2, otherwise mena wouldn't claim in panic.
3. Rolecop on N1 had to target mastina, bc she insisted on being PR.
4. Kerset is last scum.
5. Chemist said truth.
Can you guess the contradiction? If we believe in your theories, then i am N2 commuting rolecop.

Also, ofhrz is a higher priority lynch to Kerset than me, who apparently is obviously scummy for trying to get someone already before me in the lynch preferences of the towniest players by consensus lynched in order to keep myself alive somehow that still hasn’t been explained at all while Kers spent the first half of the day trying to get the lynch pool to contain the three people other than himself who were most lynchable to be the lynch order instead of trying to solve the game.

Third of all, why haven’t you explained how trying to sort people who were already higher than me on the lynch order is going to keep me alive, yet, despite the fact I’ve asked multiple times since before the ofhrz towncase even occurred to me?

@mod Could you just confirm that town is only able to lynch one player per day?

Jingle do you need other proof that you won't be lynched in case i am? We are not lovers so you won't die with me.
The fact that you don't understand lynch mechanics or think that vest was known on day 2 (when it revealed on day 3) doesn't mean that i want to lynch you before scummy slot.

I am really tired of explaining things to you. Just keep in mind that it is jingle, who is bothering me with questions not the other way.

[Kerset]

Spoiler:

Continuing: Klick is the only his confirmed town. Hito is weaker version of doc, a bit like buffed fruit vendor. Hated and loved are completely useless. Aside from ofrhz, he thinks that the two flipped scum were pretty powerful and that would justify high town power assuming the last scum was some ninja multitasking rolecop. Therefore it would be proper play lynching in the VTs (jingle > shadoweh) if ofrhz flips town. VT claims came after all PR claims and after alisae validated VT existence (locking them out of options to claim without overlapping). In general, he doesn't think chemist bus on menalque holds any water anyways. Menalque was dead the moment he claimed vig, burying him is only for towncred. There's that bit of TMI when he said ker commuted rather than accusing ker of being ascetic. It implies that he knew about kill immunity. Still 1shot vig as unconfirmable claim? Sounds ballsy enough to come from desperate scum in 1v1

To be clear, is Farkran’s POE the same as yours, kerset?

Almost.

What is your poe?

did you ask it before you saw 2467?

Ofrhz has claim perfectly tailored for scum. Novice explains, why he couldn't shoot on n1. Lack of other bullets means that we can't challenge his claim. During this time we killed two scum players. With last scum left at this early stage the most likely scenario would be that solo tires to make some sort of gamble. There are no rewards for being defeated later on, so scum would only aim for win or lose. He confirmed that there are no vig kills on n1 and n2 so the odds for no vig were high enough to go for it. Perhaps he had shot of redirect to prevent CC, if he did then give me a cookie after this game.

No cookies for you

Why am I more likely scum who made a gamble compared to chem or Hito?

Hito got their abilities confirmed. I kind of challenged chem abilities today. I think said before that hito giving vest to masti instead of mena is another indicator. Chemist role doesn't explain n2/n3 events (unlike yours), so there is no reason for me suspect him more then VT.

[Kerset]

But also, the more we shout at each other and try to upset each other, the more I just want to end this game/my participation in it ASAP.

I don't agree with the fact that ofrhz is outside of lynch order and I asked (2459) you to talk about him with me. I didn't ask for jingle spam.

[Kerset]

Who /else/ is in your PoE

Like where would you look if I flip town

In jingle

[Kerset]

We've been getting bogged down in mechanics talk and in weirdly personal arguments, unfortunately seeing all the different opinions I think its clear people don't consider the game solved. I don't think it's going to get more clear until we progress. Or, hopefully just bang out the scum right away... █▬▬ ◟(`ﮧ´ ◟ )

You all could also stop considering ofrhz as taboo.

[Kerset]

Maria and Farkran would get along well.

[Kerset]

Is there any proof that hito is aware what his talisman does? I was looking at the order of events and it seems that each receiver claimed talisman effects before hito said anything about it.

[Kerset]

FTR my lynch pool is ofr -> Jingle -> Kerset. Team Bitmap thought Jingle was the last scum so take his offer to kill himself seriously if you decide to substitue me for someone in there.

I just think your solve is giving you mental damage Jingle, especially when you're jamming your own lynch in there.

My team puts a lot of stock in you being town so it bothers me that you might be okay with laying down and dying.

This game isn't solved and we can't afford to just let things happen. Besides, even if we're horribly wrong it probably will help more to have two mechanical roles verified rather then seeing two VT flips in a row.

You said that he should be lynched tomorrow. I am moderately confused on your/your team view on him.

[Kerset]

VOTE: ofrhz

[Kerset]

I think that jingle is pick for today but we can talk this though.

[Kerset]

I think that jingle is pick for today but we can talk this though.

My only response to that is why does scum Jingle try so hard to figure out who can safely be excluded from the lynch order.

Because he is LAMIST.

Or, for that matter, kill klick.

Because he was a townlock? Idk what is your point here.

[Kerset]

I am mostly curios about shadoweh meta read. How typical for her is to be so nonuseful and lazy.

[Kerset]

Hito
Chemist
Shadow
Jingle

I don't think, i surprised anyone.

[Kerset]

I am mostly curios about shadoweh meta read. How typical for her is to be so nonuseful and lazy.

anyone?

[Kerset]

Actually, let me try opening the floor - everyone, who do you think you kill if you're scum N2? (For my part, I think hito scum smells pretty obvious watcher/doctor bait on mastina, and shoots chemist.)

I don't know whenever this is valid answer but as scum i would let my team pick kills for me.

[Kerset]

Chemist did claim to have a role with results on d2. Perhaps mastina was attacked because scum expected protection to be on chem. I don't think that either mastina or alisae was attacked sue to personal reasons. Still people like jingle have their own way of thinking, his theory could apply to himself.

[Kerset]

Because scum had strongman and mastina was conftown. Single 2-shot alien wouldn't justify strongman presence.

[Kerset]

Chemist did claim to have a role with results on d2. Perhaps mastina was attacked because scum expected protection to be on chem.

I don't think that either mastina or alisae was attacked sue to personal reasons.

Still people like jingle have their own way of thinking, his theory could apply to himself.

There are no signs of personal reasons and she didn't reveal to have role like you did. She wasn't very townreaded.

[Kerset]

Hey guys, remember that time I voted shadoweh and then a week later the game was stalled out with no new information? Good times. Good times.

My fav anime is Steins;Gate.

[Kerset]

It is not about believing, it is about how provable something is. If role can be check with full certainty in one night then i can afford that in 9v2. It is like asking why did you check my loved modifier, if you trusted hito and got its description from me.

[Kerset]

So you thought there was a world where kerset was an ascetic that could check other people powers and get notified when he gets targeted by them?

It didn't occur that you check it because you hate me and discredit literally anything i say.

At the point of time i expected this to be full pr game and Ascetic =/= Commuter. I can't shoot as well.

[Kerset]

There isn't much more to say, so i guess we can
VOTE: Jingle

[Kerset]

Shadoweh ends up exactly on the same place he was on day start. The conclusion is that you can't help me.

[Kerset]

[Kerset]

man, maybe I'm just being the boring stall boy I get it.

It is not about delaying it, it is about frequency of your posts.

Kerset, if we were no help on Shadoweh, what *do* you suppose would help?

meta read

Also, as an open forum question...do we really think Shadoweh or Jingle kill jjh? Just kinda scrolling through his ISO, it is awfully indicative of Kerset over those two in terms of priority.

Jingle had no valid kill this night. You can iterate thought every possible kill and you will always think that he had no reason to kill person x.
Shadoweh would most likely kill you but you just made counterwagon to reundo at the end of the day.
Menaq, who was also alive in this period of time was only scumreaded by me and i was mislynch target rather then kill possibility.
If scum had no real threats then i guess frame kill makes the most sense as it removes public townread.

[Kerset]

So I have a message from the self labeled "inconspicious slave of the MariaR team". (which is supa, I know its hard to tell since that describes all of us). He thinks we need a dynamic shift or we're going to lose because we're drowning in confirmation bias. Basically he really hates how NAR motivated we all are and agrees with Hito that scum is just trying to survive the wreckage. We basically haven't progressed from Day 2's action vortex.\

You can complain all you want but it doesn't change the fact that you are the person to blame here.
You/your team are the one, who never gave us any lead post day 2. You never took your effort to suggest ANY solution to this game, instead you just watched our progression from sidelines.

[Kerset]

Jingle has settle on, chemist even that got bored is still interactive.
Shadow & hito. No matter what are you trying to achieve, you won't get anywhere with one post per day. Maybe you should ask selected players to meet you at specific hour. With 3 days left you can arrange that or stay this way and finish this in 3 posts...

[Kerset]

No way for me to be around on 9 pm PST. That is 5 am for me.

[Kerset]

I’ve argued why I am town several times and no one engaged at any point, but I’m not going to waste my time beating dead horses when I don’t think those horses are stuffed with candy. Lynch me and then lynch shadoweh has the same result as lynch shadoweh then lynch me, and I don’t give a fuck which you guys choose.

As far as Shadoweh putting up a meh defense of Bitmap, how the fuck is that AI at all?

Well your poor self-argument points more at town him then town you. You didn't argue with that.

Klick is the one conftown who was reading me as town the strongest. Killing her makes the game more difficult when it’s already an uphill battle. Killing anyone else out of the town pool (like say chem) makes way more sense for scum me.

I'm pretty happy with Kerset > Jingle > Shadow as a solve, to be honest.

Also

I think that jingle is pick for today but we can talk this though.

My only response to that is why does scum Jingle try so hard to figure out who can safely be excluded from the lynch order.

Why is you town reading ofrhz, clearing you when shadow town reading bitmap is NAI?

[Kerset]

I was talking about shadoweh, which you voted not myself.

[Kerset]

You insist that you are not scum, because you wouldn't kill Klick. Why would shadoweh kill him? In your logic shadow is even more likely to kill chemist then you are.

[Kerset]

So Klick thought that shadow is more likely to be town then jingle

I'm pretty happy with Kerset > Jingle > Shadow as a solve, to be honest.

Chemist voted to lynch shadow and later changed it to ofrhz. He didn't change his read about shadow or jingle later during this day, so i would assume that he placed shadow lower then jingle.

VOTE: Shadoweh

I guess

I think we should just hammer soon because I don't see any new discussion going on

I compared both and still don't get your idea.

[Kerset]

So it means that you are not scum? Could we vote for fast night?

[Kerset]

Because I strongly think you'd kill me there instead of hito

Idk where did you get this idea.

I mean that works in theory

But if you’re in F3, you should be evaluating everyone who isn’t mechanically confirmed

Not really?

That’s the logic that leads to hero shooting.

We have the information now that you’d have if it got to F3. You just have to assume the first two lynches are town and you’re literally there.

If you go off script because you didn’t actually get new info and then lose me this game I’m going to be pissed, so do whatever reevaluating you want when there are 4 more town players to provide insight.

That literally makes no sense because I’m the only lynchable player outside of the lynch order

Let me put it this way: if you reevaluate in a 3p LYLO of Kers/ofhrz/you, the entire loss will rest solely on your shoulders should Kerset be scum. You would have let LITERALLY EVERY TOWN player down. And you’re outright saying right now that you want to reevaluate and potentially lynch someone all of the flipped town who die from here on agree is unlynchable should it come down to a 3p LYLO.

Do whatever reevaluating you want to do today, because you’ve pretty much guaranteed yourself to be in final 3 with this line of asinine stupid.

I am not the one who needs hero calls.

[Kerset]

Chem why did you go for shadoweh in the end?

[Kerset]

Do you play all by yourself? You are the only one, who never mentions teammate reads.

[Kerset]

I don't see how stalling or flips in other TM games are going to help here. Are you waiting for something like Mena did?

[Kerset]

Few more days and i will forget that there was someone called Gamma Emerald. It probably applies to you two as well. If we don't talk about this game at all then our memories about previous states of mind will fade away. I don't think that we can do quality talk, if we don't remember previous days.

Just play towards wincon, we won't outrun large anyway (especially that i don't believe in your explanation).

[Kerset]

Bingle repped into my most recent scumgame and I didn’t want to risk him picking up on any differences between my play here and my play there, so I decided to keep schtum here as I knew that game was nearly done if we could just get one vote on town

Here it is for reference, p sure it’s my best scumgame so far:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81502

Oh hey I found this post

This is almost lock clearing for Jingle imo but I’ll try to get my teams thoughts on it

Now we know that menalque was scum in both of those games. Why would there really be a difference?

[Kerset]

Well normal is over by now. Only theme games are ongoing.

[Kerset]

Kerset what was Farkran's progression on me over the last month or so roughly? Particularly, did his opinion change significantly at some point in January?

Not really, i think that he was mostly talking about it after mena flipped red after he was looking at ISO. Later he started to talk about scum!you again when you offered yourself as game solution on day 4, he found it to be bs.
Now he is griping that he is the best bc he knew all along.

Farkran thinks that 1440 points at scum!jingle, because Mena was deliberately lurking. "he was being quiet here in order to hide from Jingle in the other game. Which is why he was lurking.
Because if it was scum Mena in both games with town Jingle he'd have to continue lurking the rest of this one or playing it differently enough.
I'm sure he could do it.
But he didn't have to vanish for a couple of days."

[Kerset]

VOTE: Jingle

[Kerset]

Chemist, i think i see why you never died in this game, you are the best in throwing games out here. First in magia you were just boosting our suspects and abandoned reading game in total, here you just decide to go back to RVS and prefer to vote confirmed PR. I can see that jingle as scum pretends that he can't afford internet data but you just refuse to use it.

[Kerset]

then you will only prove yourself as gamethrower

[Kerset]

Not really,

Farkran had no second thoughts about me in the wake of monumentally misreading me and lynching me in Cult D3?

he says that it has nothing to do with this game, he mislynched you because of shos, not because you were scummy

[Kerset]

[quote="In post 2742, Jingle" Kerset played very poorly this game.[/quote]

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

I found all scum by the end of day 1 (reundo slot was afk by the time of my readlist, i found him at the end) and only got confused about ofrhz. I am the top solver in this game.

[Kerset]

I don't know whenever this is clear by now or not but mena in fact slipped Jingle. Look mena rolled scum in gun and roses and he knew he was scum in this game, so he was being quiet because he didn't want his scumbuddy in this game (Jingle) to catch him in the other game because of his interactions in this one. This is something that happens only if he's scum with Jingle as if he's scum with town Jingle then he doesn't need to be worried about it. Because he's the same in both games the only cases where it matters is if he's town with unknown jingle or scum with scum jingle

[Kerset]

During day 1 Jingle only joined Reundo wagon when he saw that the most influential people joined it in less then hour. He didn't want to be left outside, when those people convince others.

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.24
Reundo (6): Menalque, Alisae, jjh927, Jingle, ofrhz, mastina hitogoroshi (2): Shadoweh, Bitmap mastina (2): Kerset, Reundo jjh927 (1): Klick ofrhz (1): hitogoroshi Not Voting (1): Chemist1422 With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00) Ann Notes : mastina v/la until 1/13

After that wagon was shrinking until i voted in 1913
I pushed reundo when he came back from VLA and town tried to lynch bitmap instead of him.

[Kerset]

If you look at day 4, you will see that jig is hyper convinced that ofrhz is innocent even that he didn't check/memorize the events that would prove it.

It’s totally more reasonable that last scum ofhrz shoots the person tunneled on a mislynch who was themselves an obvious mislynch and commits to it N2 to make a shitty fakeclaim possible when shooting me or you makes the same fakeclaim possible without getting rid of a tvt fight. Not to mention Ali was like the last person who would’ve given mastina a bp, so any other other murky town shot would’ve been potentially better for scum by killing a powerful town role they knew existed. Before all of the claims. Then, ofhrz shoots mastina because really, they were actually a rolecop who knew that Hito only gave away a bp for the next night instead of a 1 shot bp or a full bp like mastina claimed.

The truth is that we didn't know that vest exist at the moment. It was revealed 2182, which is day 3 and jig is talking about n2 kill. During day 2 we only knew that mastina received something from inventor, on n2 it wasn't known that mastina can't be killed.

Yeah... that’s not a thing. Ofhrz is klick level conftown.

Jingle thinks that ofrhz is conftown but when he founds that his theory was based on incorrect facts he doesn't reevaluate it at all.
He knew that ofrhz is town, because he was the last scum himself. This day was rolling for few days already and jig never took his time to review previous ingame days. The only reason, why did he make confirmed town without any investigation was that he knew everyone alignments beforehand. It was his plan to get easy lylo against him.

[Kerset]

Kerset played very poorly this game.

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

I found all scum by the end of day 1 (reundo slot was afk by the time of my readlist, i found him at the end) and only got confused about ofrhz. I am the top solver in this game.

fixed

[Kerset]

Jingle

Bullshit:

That list contains one flipped scum who you never seriously pushed

and Jingle, who i pushed since mena flip

and 4 town. Furthermore, I was contending that I was townreading you because in order to be scum you'd have to have been playing badly, which has absolutely nothing to do with reads accuracy in the first place given scum know who their teammates are.

Possibly more importantly, show the class where you explained the scumread on Mena. Or pushed him. At all.

I'll save you the work:

Spoiler:

Mena and jingle are like school bullies, who bully bitmap because he has famous relative. It feels like excuse to make a push rather then accurate one.

The fuck are people voting ofhrz for

The reason is on the same posts. I don't like this post.

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

Spoiler:

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

did your team contribute to this at all?

Yea Farkran gave some insight about bitmap, ofrhz and menalque

Yea Farkran gave some insight about bitmap, ofrhz and menalque

What were farkran’s thoughts?

He is scumreading you because he didn't like your bad push on me also fark is still salty, because he was hard townreading ofrhz when he was scum in the Normal game you played together
Do you want to hear about other as well?

why not sheep me on it?

because I’m not locktowning you and it defeats the purpose of putting in a ton of effort if I throw it away to sheep someone

I'm not saying sheep me forever

I'm just saying give a bro a hand in getting a wagon going if you don't think your vote is doing anything that useful on ofhrz rn

Appeal to emotion, isn't it?

Obviously I am biased but like, this is a really terrible post right? Bitmap vs. mastina is the fire at the heart of things, and Shadoweh has the soft condemn of "I think we should ignore it" and at least kinda-sorta implying it's TVT - but without hard comitting to a TR on either one, reaching out to one side or the other, trying to peel voters off their wagons (if no one likes me, that should be pretty doable!), whatever.

Could you compare shadow and menalque? They both didn't make hard stance or peel voters as you describe. Mena made light push in 776 and keep his vote on lurker. One is your main (or one of main) townread and the other your main scumread.
Btw i wouldn't scumread neither of them with your methods

If you look at hito, he was able to apply his methods to both Mena and Shadow, because he is unsure about alignments and check every person with them. When jjh was analyzing each person around here, he picked person and then found faulty.

Also @jjh what’s the long and short on why you TR mastina and scumread kerset and bitmap?

Do you have no support from your team? Like we are in TM and you act like null info guy. Do you actually don't know or are you trying to find place for yourself to fit.

Spoiler:

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

you mean this right? why is this scum!indicative for mastina?

Also @jjh what’s the long and short on why you TR mastina and scumread kerset and bitmap?

Shadoweh Chemist Mena Kerset Bitmap
Hito Klick
GE jjh ofhrz
mastina jingle

this is pretty close to my list

I'd swap Kerset and klick and probably ofrhz and jingle

Let’s start here

separating it into 5 tiers gives something like
{Chemist, Ali, Shadoweh, Klick}
{Mena, Kerset, Bit}
{Hito, jjh, jingle}
{GE (Reundo), mastina}
{ofrhz}

this is what I’m gonna start working from with the top line being the only confident ones

Okay so like why is she in the tier below mastina and reundo?

{Mena Hito Shadoweh mastina jjh Klick}
{Chemiboi, Jingle}
{ofhrz}
{Reundo}
{Kerset, Bitmap}

Wait I thought you were SRing mastina? Also why is klick up at top and chemboi isn’t?

Bitmap what are your reads atm?

Like my own personal reads?

Yes

[bitmap]
[Kerset, Klick, Shadoweh]
[Reundo, Jingle, ofrhz, Mena, Alisae, Chemist] <- Null
[hito, jj]
[mastina]

I’m p sure I’ve seen something about the mastina and jjh thing in your iso

Can you explain why your town reads are up out of null for me?

Mena you took your time to gather thoughts about mastina but never gave option about her. She was relevant enough to be topic of discussion but not for option. Why did you skip it?

Mena if you are vig then kill mastina. As ascetic there is no way, you get blocked so result will be legit.

That's every mention through the guilty, including the one where he believes that Mena is an ascetic vig. Notice: not one vote. Not one serious push. A couple instances of "I wouldn't scumread mena for that."

What is the point of voting scum on day 1, when everyone else find them as 1st town. I questioned and pursued him when you were just sheeping. I took scum one by one. First i took Reundo, then i voted mena and then i asked to lynch you. You literally lied here because you cut my post where i voted mena and said that i never voted him

ok this is obv VOTE: mena

[Kerset]

I don't know whenever this is clear by now or not but mena in fact slipped Jingle. Look mena rolled scum in gun and roses and he knew he was scum in this game, so he was being quiet because he didn't want his scumbuddy in this game (Jingle) to catch him in the other game because of his interactions in this one. This is something that happens only if he's scum with Jingle as if he's scum with town Jingle then he doesn't need to be worried about it. Because he's the same in both games the only cases where it matters is if he's town with unknown jingle or scum with scum jingle

Jingle

Bullshit.

Mena brought the comparison up after GNR was over. He has no need to manipulate his scumbuddy in a completed game based on this game, and the argument that that's a slip that implicates me is bafflingly dumb.

Menalque talked about the comparison after GNR was over but it was because everyone was wondering what mena was doing and why he fell silent after he had been one of the most active slots until bingle replaced into GNR.
It's obvious that scum!menalque isn't worried about GNR but about this game. This is the game which was going on, not GNR which was almost over. Scum!menalque in this game will continue playing, so what's the purpose of not speaking until GNR is over?

[Kerset]

After that wagon was shrinking until i voted in 1913
I pushed reundo when he came back from VLA and town tried to lynch bitmap instead of him.

Bullshit:

Hito was the only one on Bitmap when Kerset voted Reundo to L-1 in 1913. JJ swapped after that. Klick is the one who shifted momentum back after jj and Ali bailed, but nice try.

Note: Reundo wagon is pure with exception of Mena at this point. Wagon shrinks until Kerset vote in 1913. Double bus strongman D1 when momentum seems to be moving to Bitmap/hito soft implies Kerset town. Reundo final wagon is {

Menalque

,

Jingle

,

ofrhz

, Kerset, Klick,

Alisae

,

Chemist1422

}

You said this by yourself jingle. What are you calling nice try?

[Kerset]

Yea i was counterwagon to reundo. Do you want to know who wanted to stop reundo lynch?

I think keeping Kers off of hammer at least is useful for the moment, jj.

You mean Reundo and yes that was one of my thoughts

I meant preventing Kers from hammering Reundo, actually, but yeah.

This last page by Kerset seems particularly off, and I'm not sure if it's off enough that I don't want to lynch Reundo anymore but I want to figure it out either way.

I think a Kerset red flip is potentially the best thing that could happen for this game where I'm not sure a Reundo red flip has the same impact. I'm also not sure what either of them flipping green does to my thought processes and I need to consider that.

You were the one, who was the most afraid to lynch reundo and desired to get me instead. You also didn't want to vote me, because you were afraid to be out of your partners wagon, when he flips red.

[Kerset]

You're sheeping an argument I made that was fairly quickly pointed out as

wrong

correct

iirc. Congratulations, you've determined I am capable of making mistakes reading.

I am happy to believe Kerset because actually I think Kerset's dayplay was really good at the end there, the fear about reundo 'getting away with it' seems like not what you'd do as buddy even if you wanted to bus. Especially when I gave him an easy out in 1763. Also I feel like the jjh feels like a pretty unlikely kill if you don't think Bitmap is scum. Also, it makes menals attempts to deepwolf instead of following the bloc with me on to Bitmap much more sensible.

You are capable of telling lies. You lie all the time today. Crap like "you never voted mena, untill you voted mena" or the fact that you call your own deductions as bullshit here proves it clearly.

Another lie:

Yea Farkran gave some insight about bitmap, ofrhz and menalque

What were farkran’s thoughts?

He is scumreading you because he didn't like your bad push on me also fark is still salty, because he was hard townreading ofrhz when he was scum in the Normal game you played together
Do you want to hear about other as well?

Notice here that Farkran

doesn't

have thoughts about mena.

Do you want to hear about other as well?

He does, i asked whenever ofrhz wants to hear about them. Is it big enough for you to see it?

[Kerset]

Menalque talked about the comparison after GNR was over but it was because everyone was wondering what mena was doing and why he fell silent after he had been one of the most active slots until bingle replaced into GNR.

Pretty sure after going back to look Mena was literally the only person who even mentioned his own absence.

Why is it more likely to make me scum that he would mention his absence there in this game than town? Why is the explanation of "I had similar reads on his slot in both games and he wanted to prevent me from rereading him" not a more reasonable explanation?

Was he also teamslipping when he mentioned JJ's team member Amrun was in that game?

Rereading what? It would be exactly the same SvT. I mean town!jingle in GNR could notice that menalque was scum in that game once the game is over but town!jingle in this game will be able to use that meta to identify scum!menalque in this game regardless.

[Kerset]

If you look at day 4, you will see that jig is hyper convinced that ofrhz is innocent even that he didn't check/memorize the events that would prove it.

It’s totally more reasonable that last scum ofhrz shoots the person tunneled on a mislynch who was themselves an obvious mislynch and commits to it N2 to make a shitty fakeclaim possible when shooting me or you makes the same fakeclaim possible without getting rid of a tvt fight. Not to mention Ali was like the last person who would’ve given mastina a bp, so any other other murky town shot would’ve been potentially better for scum by killing a powerful town role they knew existed. Before all of the claims. Then, ofhrz shoots mastina because really, they were actually a rolecop who knew that Hito only gave away a bp for the next night instead of a 1 shot bp or a full bp like mastina claimed.

The truth is that we didn't know that vest exist at the moment. It was revealed 2182, which is day 3 and jig is talking about n2 kill. During day 2 we only knew that mastina received something from inventor, on n2 it wasn't known that mastina can't be killed.

Yeah... that’s not a thing. Ofhrz is klick level conftown.

Jingle thinks that ofrhz is conftown but when he founds that his theory was based on incorrect facts he doesn't reevaluate it at all.
He knew that ofrhz is town, because he was the last scum himself. This day was rolling for few days already and jig never took his time to review previous ingame days. The only reason, why did he make confirmed town without any investigation was that he knew everyone alignments beforehand. It was his plan to get easy lylo against him.

RCE says Kerset is reaching and the BP wasn’t even mentioned until 2101 (or thereabouts).

Not sure what he’s responding to yet.

I am also still not sure... Any explanations...?

[Kerset]

Spoiler: Kerset Talking about Mena Pre Chem corroboration on guilty

Mena and jingle are like school bullies, who bully bitmap because he has famous relative. It feels like excuse to make a push rather then accurate one.

Fluff post and buddying Bitmap.

The fuck are people voting ofhrz for

The reason is on the same posts. I don't like this post.

Obvdistancing. Not a real push, and not followed up on.

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

Mena is my least strong scumread! Yup. Super convincing.

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

did your team contribute to this at all?

Yea Farkran gave some insight about bitmap, ofrhz and menalque

Notice here that Farkran has thoughts about mena.

Yea Farkran gave some insight about bitmap, ofrhz and menalque

What were farkran’s thoughts?

He is scumreading you because he didn't like your bad push on me also fark is still salty, because he was hard townreading ofrhz when he was scum in the Normal game you played together
Do you want to hear about other as well?

Notice here that Farkran doesn't have thoughts about mena.

why not sheep me on it?

because I’m not locktowning you and it defeats the purpose of putting in a ton of effort if I throw it away to sheep someone

I'm not saying sheep me forever

I'm just saying give a bro a hand in getting a wagon going if you don't think your vote is doing anything that useful on ofhrz rn

Appeal to emotion, isn't it?

Again, this is superweak. ATE isn't a scumtell, and Kers is more WK'ing ofhrz (who is also a scumread?!?) than actually putting pressure on Mena.

Obviously I am biased but like, this is a really terrible post right? Bitmap vs. mastina is the fire at the heart of things, and Shadoweh has the soft condemn of "I think we should ignore it" and at least kinda-sorta implying it's TVT - but without hard comitting to a TR on either one, reaching out to one side or the other, trying to peel voters off their wagons (if no one likes me, that should be pretty doable!), whatever.

Could you compare shadow and menalque? They both didn't make hard stance or peel voters as you describe. Mena made light push in 776 and keep his vote on lurker. One is your main (or one of main) townread and the other your main scumread.
Btw i wouldn't scumread neither of them with your methods

This is a defense of shadoweh, not a read on Mena. It also manages to imply hito shouldn't scumread mena, despite Kers totally scumreading mena.

If you look at hito, he was able to apply his methods to both Mena and Shadow, because he is unsure about alignments and check every person with them. When jjh was analyzing each person around here, he picked person and then found faulty.

This is shading jj, not talking about Mena's alignment.

Also @jjh what’s the long and short on why you TR mastina and scumread kerset and bitmap?

Do you have no support from your team? Like we are in TM and you act like null info guy. Do you actually don't know or are you trying to find place for yourself to fit.

This is, again, pretty much the opposite of putting pressure on Mena.

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

you mean this right? why is this scum!indicative for mastina?

Also @jjh what’s the long and short on why you TR mastina and scumread kerset and bitmap?

Shadoweh Chemist Mena Kerset Bitmap
Hito Klick
GE jjh ofhrz
mastina jingle

this is pretty close to my list

I'd swap Kerset and klick and probably ofrhz and jingle

Let’s start here

separating it into 5 tiers gives something like
{Chemist, Ali, Shadoweh, Klick}
{Mena, Kerset, Bit}
{Hito, jjh, jingle}
{GE (Reundo), mastina}
{ofrhz}

this is what I’m gonna start working from with the top line being the only confident ones

Okay so like why is she in the tier below mastina and reundo?

{Mena Hito Shadoweh mastina jjh Klick}
{Chemiboi, Jingle}
{ofhrz}
{Reundo}
{Kerset, Bitmap}

Wait I thought you were SRing mastina? Also why is klick up at top and chemboi isn’t?

Bitmap what are your reads atm?

Like my own personal reads?

Yes

[bitmap]
[Kerset, Klick, Shadoweh]
[Reundo, Jingle, ofrhz, Mena, Alisae, Chemist] <- Null
[hito, jj]
[mastina]

I’m p sure I’ve seen something about the mastina and jjh thing in your iso

Can you explain why your town reads are up out of null for me?

Mena you took your time to gather thoughts about mastina but never gave option about her. She was relevant enough to be topic of discussion but not for option. Why did you skip it?

Oh! And this could lead somewhere promising.... Oh, wait no, Kers doesn't mention Mena again until:

Mena if you are vig then kill mastina. As ascetic there is no way, you get blocked so result will be legit.

Outright believing the asceticizing vig who can self target claim.

Belittle it as much you want. The fact stands still

Also 2633

[Kerset]

Yea i was counterwagon to reundo. Do you want to know who wanted to stop reundo lynch?

You were the counterwagon Reundo didn't jump on that was made 100% of flipped town. So yeah... Scum really wanted to wagon you.

Also to note: I didn't leave the Reundo wagon, I said I was happy JJ was keeping him off of L-1 when you were giving intent to hammer before we had finished discussing. But you can paint that as scummy all you want.

You lie again... you are neither flipped or town.

[Kerset]

He does, i asked whenever ofrhz wants to hear about them. Is it big enough for you to see it?

So... Those thoughts are?

I asked you to paraphrase them. You have a text record of them unless you've been cheating by discussing the game outside of approved mediums. You haven't paraphrased them. That's probably because it takes a lot more effort to paraphrase something that doesn't exist and make it make sense contextually.

I'm taking the delay in posting between my declared guilty as confirmation it IS a guilty.
There's an old saying by DGB.
Paraphrasing a PT conversation takes seconds; fabricating a convincing PT conversation takes an eternity.
And this sure looks like the eternity.
VOTE: Kerset for president lol

There are like 6+ hours between our posts anyway and i have as much time i want to make mine. I can just delay my post by hour, if i want to and nothing will change.
Yet your point is that i didn't post something, because i had no time to do so?

[Kerset]

honestly I think both of your cases against the other are kinda weak

I think that you should post your case on both of us. We are close near repeating here (i think there are only 2 subjects left). Even if you don't want to discuss it with us, it will be important for players reviewing this game.

[Kerset]

Hello RCE?

[Kerset]

There are like 6+ hours between our posts anyway and i have as much time i want to make mine. I can just delay my post by hour, if i want to and nothing will change.

This still doesn’t look like a paraphrase. If Farkran had thoughts that he wrote to you, why can’t you share them?

Your point was that "Notice here that Farkran doesn't have thoughts about mena." and i told that ofrhz just didn't want them when i offered him.
Fark said that played two games with him and he seemed he was too calm and pocketing people way more than he know him to. I don't see how is it going to help us here?

You lie again... you are neither flipped or town.

I guess I did lie. The wagon of JJH and Chem did contain an unflipped player. It’s cool how instead of addressing the post you take the opportunity to ignore it entirely and talk about how you can walk off the edge of the world though.

Do you want me to address the rest of it? To be honest i just mostly repeat my previous post.
You wanted to lynch me and hide in reundo wagon in case he gets lynched.

I can even tell that your next posts will be: no i didn't
and then i will say YES YOU DIDDDDD
and then you will say NOOOOOOO AND GIV ME FARKRAN RECORDS

[Kerset]

Kerset can you explain your reasoning for all of your targets again please

fwiw oka is leaning kerset being scum because setup spec

Jjh was influential and leading mislynch towards townie, so i assumed that he has the highest odds of survival this particular night.
On n2 i just didn't want to be vigkilled, i don't recall any deeper thoughts beside this.
N3 was just random and obligatory, i was mostly curious about chem interaction

[Kerset]

hito’s reads sort of aligned with my own yesterday

Why do you two think I wasn’t killed and hito was?

Yesterday hito was constantly evaluating things for my favor. Meantime you told jingle in day 4 that you will rethink everything in lylo. He expected you to be herocaller.

Spoiler:

I’m probably just gonna drop a vote soon because a nolynch is by far the worst situation

yeah it stresses me less feeling better about Kerset. I'll be around tomorrow to talk stuff out but I'll make sure when I go to bed I'm voting whoever you're voting

If you’re worried tho then the other ability I have begins with “a” and ends in “scetic”

If you’re worried tho then the other ability I have begins with “a” and ends in “scetic”

Are you ascetic or an asceticizer or whatever it’s called

El segundo amigo

What was your action last night?

I ascetisised myself, if that’s a word

does this clear kerset in y'all's eyes

y/n

I think it does because of how badly he misunderstands the ascetic situation, and if he gets believed (somehow) and kerset gets outed as commuter/ascetic it's a super bad look for kerset

Gamma thinks it's pretty town indicative for Kerset, yeah. I kinda think we have to be careful putting much intent on menal there - feels like Menal with his head on straight just does the 1-shot vig, then in response to mastina's fullclaim says "Well uhh clearly I was alien'd lmao". The fact that he didn't do that means he was just panicking and not thinking about it, so whatever he did instead shouldn't be interpreted through the lens of optimal play, yeah?

But Gamma also thinks that this post is pretty unlikely to come from scum:

Self-reflections that maybe your side is also wrong in the way other is.

And that's something I'm more inclined to agree with.

Idk I just hate the feeling that Shadoweh/Jingle is kinda sleepwalking but I sure don't feel like chemist or Kerset are mafia so maybe it's fine.

Kerset I think has the most implausible role for scum, and the most clearing D1 behavior, but his behavior D4 was the most scum indicative I think

I think that Kerset working Jingle this hard at this late hour is probably a decent town indicator. .

[Kerset]

Fark said that played two games with him and he seemed he was too calm and pocketing people way more than he know him to. I don't see how is it going to help us here?

Which games? Which posts are pocketing people?

normal 2106 and "his first game"
i didn't ask him for posts there...

[Kerset]

"Chem asks for a claim. Kerset declares intent to hammer anyway."
Chem asks for claim -> reundo gives claim -> i give reundo 24 hours and force him to ANSWER QUESTIONS
I gave intent after his claim and under condition that he doesn't answer our questions. How many lies are you going to pull today?

"I support him taking Reundo off of L-1 while we have discussion ongoing."
My intent states that he has to talk with us or i will hammer him. How did i stop the discussion from going?

i didn't ask him for posts there...

Please do. Ask him which posts from Mena on D1 came across as buddying in a way that town Mena doesn't buddy.

Because... You never once mentioned pocketing wrt Mena when that was the majority of your case on mastina (she was pocketing jj).

How are farkran thoughts on day 1 about mena relevant here? Do you really think he remembers it after 2 months? You are trying to pull such stupid shenanigans to frame me here.

[Kerset]

Jjh was influential and leading mislynch towards townie, so i assumed that he has the highest odds of survival this particular night.

I don't know if you've addressed this, but why wouldn't you target a nullread with the FN instead of someone likely to eat a night kill early, if not N1? I know you said that you wanted to prevent your own lynch (which claiming the pending FN shot would have done anyway, so it's an immediately stupid reason) but why not target in the middle of the pack instead of the universal townreads, even if you thought the universal townread was an unlikely NK based on him suspecting bitmap/you who would have been unconfirmed to townyou at the time. Which I still don't believe.

1. There was like 90% that scum has roleblocker, which would block me after fn claim.
2. Then if this nullread would die then you would be asking. "Why didn't you target person X? Your target was so random".

[Kerset]

I can count posts if you doubt it.

Spoiler: Mixed?

Had a night class so more tomorrow, but:

chemists clear is lock enough that imo there's not much to read in to klick vs chem dying
Kerset I think has the most implausible role for scum, and the most clearing D1 behavior, but his behavior D4 was the most scum indicative I think
Jingle it all depends on his sincerity of his role clears - his aggressive caring about the solve is his biggest selling point but who knows how good he'd be at rat mode reversal
Shadoweh has tremendous indecision that's hard to parse because it makes sense for sensitive townie or scum just hoping to flail for time and make it out of the wreckage

Ideally I'd like to get a never buddy post from reundo/menal iso but menal feels good enough that I'm not sure he'd drop one

Spoiler: I feel better about kerset + gamma find my post towny + Jingle scum rather then me

If you’re worried tho then the other ability I have begins with “a” and ends in “scetic”

If you’re worried tho then the other ability I have begins with “a” and ends in “scetic”

Are you ascetic or an asceticizer or whatever it’s called

El segundo amigo

What was your action last night?

I ascetisised myself, if that’s a word

does this clear kerset in y'all's eyes

y/n

I think it does because of how badly he misunderstands the ascetic situation, and if he gets believed (somehow) and kerset gets outed as commuter/ascetic it's a super bad look for kerset

Gamma thinks it's pretty town indicative for Kerset, yeah. I kinda think we have to be careful putting much intent on menal there - feels like Menal with his head on straight just does the 1-shot vig, then in response to mastina's fullclaim says "Well uhh clearly I was alien'd lmao". The fact that he didn't do that means he was just panicking and not thinking about it, so whatever he did instead shouldn't be interpreted through the lens of optimal play, yeah?

But Gamma also thinks that this post is pretty unlikely to come from scum:

Self-reflections that maybe your side is also wrong in the way other is.

And that's something I'm more inclined to agree with.

Idk I just hate the feeling that Shadoweh/Jingle is kinda sleepwalking but I sure don't feel like chemist or Kerset are mafia so maybe it's fine.

Spoiler: feel better about kerset

Jingle has settle on, chemist even that got bored is still interactive.
Shadow & hito. No matter what are you trying to achieve, you won't get anywhere with one post per day. Maybe you should ask selected players to meet you at specific hour. With 3 days left you can arrange that or stay this way and finish this in 3 posts...

yeah, that's a good point. I'll be around tomorrow evening PST. I'm picking a friend up from the airport who's staying here but they're on eastern time flying from Canada so I imagine they'll fall asleep pretty early.

but also this post makes me feel a lot better about Kerset tbh!

I'm hestitant to read too much into menal-posting because he seems to be good at scum, but I did find one pretty buddy-indicative post on him re: Shadoweh

I was strongly agreeing on shadoweh last time I was here but I don’t think I found either of the other two particularly towny

Just don't like the phrasing "I was strongly agreeing last time I was here" because it's sort of making sure to explictly punt the read to what he can be objectively shown to have said earlier, which does seem like what you do with the reads you'd rather not need to dwell on.

Actually there was a Shadoweh vote here for a bit, but to me the one post I really have trouble getting past is:

Maybe this is because I've been dealing with you scumreading me all week hito but I think you seize on something you don't understand and decide it must be that way because they're scum <<
(it would be fair for you to call me a hypocrite for saying this since I basically did it to you back)

I think RitCap is really easy to hate in these circumstances, I super, SUPER get why you don't like his posts. I would love to be there with you guys thinking he's the scummiest person on the planet but I'm pretty sure hollistically, with the way Team Mafia is set up, ignoring the clear towntell it gifted us would be wrong. He's really not scum, no matter how much you will him to be for having a pity party.

I certainly didn't say we don't have scumreads. Dunn just thinks its more worth not lynching to let them work then accidentally lynching a real one because we're so stacked.

I like killing Shadoweh over Jingle in most respects but I just think this would be a really weird post for scum to make. It's just kinda clearing Bitmap with no effort to do anything else. I mean obviously if Shadoweh is scum she's lazy scum so it's not impossible that she just kinda acted without motivation, but kicking the towntell to be due to "the way Team Mafia is set up" seems like not what you'd do as scum, yeah? You'd wanna make it more personal? Talk to me about this one Jingle because I think it's my main roadblock on Shadoweh at this point

Spoiler: Gamma thinks that jingle/shadow has last scum

As scum I can be -extremely- lazy but I never have trouble actually voting people.
If I were scum I would have no reason not to just drop a Jingle vote when he was at 2 votes earlier and peace tf out.

Any relevant meta for me to look at?

Gamma would like to note that he also feels good about Shadoweh/Jingle having the last scum in it, and he believes in everyone to show up tomorrow evening if folks are gonna miss today to talk out who's the last scum, so we don't panic in 3p lylo.

I think I lean a little more Jingle than Shadoweh but I want to hear this thoughts on this most recent stuff + it would be nice to livechat with Gamma if it works out. I'm touring San Jose with my friend but we'll be back at like...8 or 9 PST?

Spoiler: Kerset town idicator

I think that Kerset working Jingle this hard at this late hour is probably a decent town indicator.

2687 is annoying because in one light I can see it as townie frustration (the suggestion of killing Shadoweh because Jingle/Kerset/{hito/chem} is the most likely way to catch Kerset scum), but then I see that "I'm talking to a wall" and having a lot of trouble squaring that against Shadoweh saying she wants 'inner clarity' more than wagon mongering.

I guess regardless, I'm hammering Shadoweh when I go to bed in ~an hour to make sure we don't NL. Get your last thoughts in if you're got something to say in case this is a miss, and if this is a hit thank god its over.

Did i miss things about me or you? Where do you see flip?

[Kerset]

2601 was the earliest of this day... i told you he moved from mixed feeling about me to townreading me during yesterday

OMG HITO WOULD RATHER LYNCH ME OVER CHEMIST!??? I CANT BELIEVE IT
2614 was about Kerset over Chemist not you
You are such compulsive trickster. You would manipulate anything to frame me.


i will type about 2805 after tea

Pedit: Except the opposite is true and you are the one who tries to say hito was re-evaluating. I didn't try to frame you because of the nightkill because both kills would be my favor. I made a scumcase of Jingle based on your ISO and actions.

Pedit 2: i am not your servant, find them yourself

[Kerset]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that there's a scum roleblocker and this is role madness (your assumptions, supposedly, not mine, as I (and indeed, town in general) had no reason to presuppose a scum roleblocker until mastina's claim). That still requires that you actually near lynch twice, don't get confirmed by any sources, and for scum to use their roleblock on you. Meanwhile, there are 9 other town roles FYPOV who all have the theoretical ability to catch scum that scum aren't targeting. A guilty >>> an innocent.

1. Nobody waste cop on person, who claims to selfconfirm.
2. If the condition of my survival is FN, then i am policy lynched when it doesn't appear next day.

Why would a nullread die? Say you targeted Klick. Why would scum shoot Klick? For Klick to die, there would have had to have been a vig AND that vig would have to shoot Klick over say... You. And so what if Klick is scum? Either she corroborates your FN or she risks getting caught in a lie by any other player being roleblocked or a tracker existing or any other number of threats.

That's not even counting the case where you play your claimed role intelligently, visit N1, claim FN D2, commute N2, and FN N3, when conftown is actually more powerful.

Why would scum attack alisae or mastina? Hard to tell but one of those happened. Unexpected kill happen so i pick the best option.
Your pick is dumb. If you get pushed on n2 then you have to prove that you didn't use FN when you were widely scumreaded before.
Regardless on day 3 you have to say that you lied about using FN... and hope that someone can prove you in fact commuted. Otherwise you are VI

[Kerset]

At this point i am pretty sure that you shitpost, so chemist don't read this page. Wtf do you want to do here? Argue about difference between evaluating and re-evaluating? Proof that farkran isn't my imaginary friend and assisted me?

[Kerset]

I said that you make tons of 0 value posts, because you hope that chemist won't read them. If i just let you make two pages in a single night then i am sure that he will only scroll them. Your whole tactic is to don't give crap about facts and just throw as much meaningless opinions as you can to make sure that he won't analyze anything and stay the way he is.
You even reached points where i could post your theories and you fought them without noticing. VC checks are irrelevant for you. My fav are 2759 2804, 2783, 2759

I can even tell that your next posts will be: no i didn't
and then i will say YES YOU DIDDDDD
and then you will say NOOOOOOO AND GIV ME FARKRAN RECORDS

I pretty much described your new posts beforehand.

Because scum DOESN'T care about making their reads. They care about making their reads look good.

So when someone change the order of final day 1 events to make them look good then he is scum? Or claim that mastina vest was known on day 2 to whiteknight ofrhz? Is this the kind of scumtell you are looking for?
You only waste my time...

[Kerset]

Spoiler:

I said that you make tons of 0 value posts, because you hope that chemist won't read them. If i just let you make two pages in a single night then i am sure that he will only scroll them. Your whole tactic is to don't give crap about facts and just throw as much meaningless opinions as you can to make sure that he won't analyze anything and stay the way he is.
You even reached points where i could post your theories and you fought them without noticing. VC checks are irrelevant for you. My fav are 2759 2804, 2783, 2759

I can even tell that your next posts will be: no i didn't
and then i will say YES YOU DIDDDDD
and then you will say NOOOOOOO AND GIV ME FARKRAN RECORDS

I pretty much described your new posts beforehand.

Because scum DOESN'T care about making their reads. They care about making their reads look good.

So when someone change the order of final day 1 events to make them look good then he is scum? Or claim that mastina vest was known on day 2 to whiteknight ofrhz? Is this the kind of scumtell you are looking for?
You only waste my time...

All of my posts are direct answers to your bullshit, and you have just as much control over that pacing as I do. Maybe quote some empty posts of mine if you're gonna try to argue I'm just fluffing here. As far as the four you did quote: 2 of them are literally the same post, which isn't a lie. The other two are a minor inconsistency I owned up to and sarcastically responding to you blatantly lying yourself in the only manner it deserved: derision. That's a lot of fluffing!

If i quote your empty posts then you will argue about each of it. I won't help you generate more spam, that is your goal not mine. Your recent posts are ridiculous enough on their own.

Hell, did you even respond to the point of 2804? How you became willing to hammer Reundo immediately after people started talking about how scummy you were being? Cause I sure as hell don't remember you doing so and it's one of your favorite posts and all.

I didn't respond because i wanted to cut off your spamming...

You managed to predict that lying will result in me calling out your lie and not cooperating with requests will result in me calling you out on not cooperating with requests! Next you should work on figuring out what light comes after Green on the traffic light! Is it chartreuse? Kerset will learn us them futures tomorrow!

I don't need to cooperate with confirmed scum, deal with it.

Again, how did I change the order of D1?

2804

You were a wagon at 1.19, counter to mastina. Literally the same people all voted Reundo by 1.23. 2 conftown then tried to wagon you at EOD. You tried to hammer Reundo as soon as you came under suspicion again, but I stayed on the Reundo wagon. ALL OF THESE ARE CLEARLY TRUE STATEMENTS.

and all of these are shitposts, this is not where you lied before.... as i said: "Your whole tactic is to don't give crap about facts and just throw as much meaningless opinions as you can" You just made new points unrelated to this case to continue shitposting.

Spoiler: you lied again

Votecount 1.24
Reundo (6): Menalque, Alisae, jjh927, Jingle, ofrhz, mastina hitogoroshi (2): Shadoweh, Bitmap mastina (2): Kerset, Reundo jjh927 (1): Klick ofrhz (1): hitogoroshi Not Voting (1): Chemist1422 With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00) Ann Notes : mastina v/la until 1/13

What? VT in mini theme? Sounds like bs.

???

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a role madness mini theme run here

VOTE: Kerset

That post was super weird and feels like shade

I had 0 votes before i pushed Reundo. I only got voted by chem AFTER i attacked reundo. Do you still think that you don't change the events of day 1 to make them look good?

You on the other hand are trying to say my points about 1.26 are meaningless because they don't describe what happened at 1.19, which is fucking ridiculous, and trying to paint the vote jumps from Reundo to you as scum motivated when they came exclusively from people who are known to be town.

What points about 1.26? What are you talking about? Did we even talk about 1.19 before? Are you going to talk in riddles now to force explanation posts from my side?

[Kerset]

Hito and chem dislike the fact that i want to kill reundo.
Meantime Jingle: kErsEt wANteD tO kIlL rEUndO bECausE hE gOt sUsPEctEd by hiTo aND CheM

I wonder, when you look at things like 1755 and 1758 do you blink your eyes and pretend they are not there or think that i am not being serious? Those are exactly things which triggered them, as much as you wish to you can't say that their order was reversed.

You're still sidestepping the point that the conversation you were attempting to cut off had nothing to do with Reundo, as mentioned in that post you've linked to roughly 500 times.

I am not sidestepping, I agree with it. You wanted to convince others and make them lynch me instead of scum. I wanted to prevent scum from running away. You tried to engage conversation in which i would be lynched and reundo would be ignored bc he was going AFK again. You are exactly correct that you wouldn't talk about reundo as you didn't want it.

You mean Reundo and yes that was one of my thoughts

I meant preventing Kers from hammering Reundo, actually, but yeah.

This last page by Kerset seems particularly off, and I'm not sure if it's off enough that I don't want to lynch Reundo anymore but I want to figure it out either way.

I think a Kerset red flip is potentially the best thing that could happen for this game where I'm not sure a Reundo red flip has the same impact. I'm also not sure what either of them flipping green does to my thought processes and I need to consider that.

[Kerset]

so i bus my strongman scum mate to save myself when i had 1 vote and strongman was in the process of being unvoted because town was going for bitmap?

This is a silly point because 'with legs' is a function of the other townies, right? I was pushing Bitmap and Bitmap was pushing myself/Alisae. The reason my wagon 'had legs' and Bitmaps didn't is because three confirmed townies agreed with my reasoning and no one agreed with Bitmap - it's not as though if Bitmap was scum, he would have mind-controlled people on to Alisae, right?

I am happy to believe Kerset because actually I think Kerset's dayplay was really good at the end there, the fear about reundo 'getting away with it' seems like not what you'd do as buddy even if you wanted to bus. Especially when I gave him an easy out in 1763. Also I feel like the jjh feels like a pretty unlikely kill if you don't think Bitmap is scum. Also, it makes menals attempts to deepwolf instead of following the bloc with me on to Bitmap much more sensible.

[Kerset]

You're still sidestepping the point that the conversation you were attempting to cut off had nothing to do with Reundo, as mentioned in that post you've linked to roughly 500 times.

I am not sidestepping, I agree with it. You wanted to convince others and make them lynch me instead of scum. I wanted to prevent scum from running away. You tried to engage conversation in which i would be lynched and reundo would be ignored bc he was going AFK again. You are exactly correct that you wouldn't talk about reundo as you didn't want it.

You mean Reundo and yes that was one of my thoughts

I meant preventing Kers from hammering Reundo, actually, but yeah.

This last page by Kerset seems particularly off, and I'm not sure if it's off enough that I don't want to lynch Reundo anymore but I want to figure it out either way.

I think a Kerset red flip is potentially the best thing that could happen for this game where I'm not sure a Reundo red flip has the same impact. I'm also not sure what either of them flipping green does to my thought processes and I need to consider that.

And if you add back in the context of what actually happened:

I think Green Reundo actually firms up Green Ali, because scum don't tend to want to build castles on sand, if that makes sense.

I don't know that Green Kers firms up anyone, cause no one has made strong defenses there and the attacks have all had fairly sturdy foundations.

I'm pretty okay with just lynching Reundo, atp.

If you add the context later you decided to distract everyone from this topic. You only bumped post about me bc it got buried as well.
I agreed with you. I wanted to cut off people, which wanted to step away from talking about reundo. What is your deal?

Spoiler:

So really the trick is to rand scum in games that have unhinged townplayers

Unless those unhinged town players have computers telling them you're scum. Right mastina?

Yeah town won white flag in spite of town

Oh, it must have been that I wanted scum to clutch victory there. TBH, at that point I was way more invested in watching GIF wreck Ali. Best TM 2018 game by far.

WHY WOULD HE CLAIM TRACKER AS JAILKEEPER? WHO EVEN FUCKING DOES THAT?

The tiebreak game was the old newbie setup. And GIF fakeclaimed to get Ali to scumclaim.

e replaced in D2 I think. Players only had D1 to read for their guess. The endgame was hilarious though.

Subject: Tiebreak Mafia Day 3

No, that means we lynch Alisae because there is no doctor in this setup.

VOTE: Alisae

I'm actually a jailkeeper.

Sorry, Ali, but you have to admit that game was fucking hilarious.

<3

Subject: Tiebreak Mafia Day 3

VOTE: Jingle

smh secret bastard game

Pffft. It’s no secret I’m a bastard.

It's okay, Ali. I'm bullying you because you're great, not because you're on a team with RC.

I'll bite, how do we get GIF to fakeclaim in this game?

But a little bit of context added to 1799 reinforces the credibility of mastina having those reads simultaneously. Like... She was voting Bitmap, then all of her townreads voted you and she joined. Then she was voting you and all of her townreads voted Reundo and she joined. I don't see how that's in any way conflicting with {she scumreads all three of you}.

If anything, mastina has been super consistent this game.

Quoting cause I kinda buried it in memories.

I think it should be common knowledge at this point that killing me only makes me stronger

No. What

DOESN'T

kill you makes you stronger.

I’m getting close to prod range but I’ll catch up and respond tomorrow.

[Kerset]

town was going for bitmap?

In the immediate vicinity of your vote there is no Bitmap push, only a Kerset push. So...

So... you just have multiple personality disorder or maybe you are indeed a bot? I could quote whole pages to show it but i doubt you would read them.

Note: Reundo wagon is pure with exception of Mena at this point. Wagon shrinks until Kerset vote in 1913. Double bus strongman D1 when momentum seems to be moving to Bitmap/hito soft implies Kerset town. Reundo final wagon is {

Menalque

,

Jingle

,

ofrhz

, Kerset, Klick,

Alisae

,

Chemist1422

}

Let me guess you are going to argue that "push on immediate vicinity of vote" isn't the same as "momentum during vote". Are you still surprised why do i call your posts valueless shitposts?