In post 275, Replica wrote:Second, some thoughts on Chara:
In post 204, Chara wrote: In post 194, Sujimichi wrote:Thank you. Aside from the slot I replaced, I was not able to see anything; however, I will re-read Hectic's post with a focus on removing his jest from his points.
your repeated thanks is making it hard to want to fight you... stop that.
I really struggle to see the motivation behind things like this. Saying "Stop doing X, X makes me not want to lynch/scumread you" comes off to me as always two-timing. It's at once facetiously giving advice to the speaker's scumread, while also imploring that the thing they're doing is at least helping their case, if not an outright towntell to the speaker. If it's a towntell you want to wait and see it develop more fully on its own, without intervening. If they're still a scumread telling them to stop towntelling/making them doubt it is absurd. "Not as eager to lynch" isn't quite equivalent to towntelling, but you get the gist.
Bluntly, to me statements like this come off as aiming to subversively ingratiate yourself with the subject.
In post 118, Chara wrote: In post 108, Nachomamma8 wrote:Artist who formerly was not Chara, a towncore is nothing if not tested. Games with limited flips are decidedly anti-town. Please don't get lured to the "we find town and we win! easy game!" siren call.
while i prefer townhunting, i don't believe that makes this "easy". you do make a good point i hadn't fully considered, in that only sparing our supposed friends leaves the possibility that they are not so loyal as they appear, with no way of knowing the truth.
After being gungho for townhunting, Chara gets reined in by the revelation that...the townreads might be wrong. No flips does indeed complicate things, but this is so bizarre to not even think about. Chara had to have done at least some thinking given that they leaped to classifying it as a townhunting setup. On the surface this is seems slightly scummy, more just bizarre, but I feel like there's more in my gut that I can't quite get to.
Finally, more abstractly, Chara's way of interacting with the posting gimmicks bothers me. The others use their gimmicks to push game-related points. Some people have complained about them, others are indifferent. Chara in general has been pretty eager to roll with them-commenting a lot on the skeletons, the flowers, Hectic misspelling something in one of the pictures, etc.-but significantly less about the content.
#193, well after they've been interacting with Chara all game, is the first time it notes that there is plenty of content from Hectic...which is really surprising for someone who regularly read Hectic's posts and interacted with them.
Here Replica introduces himself with a slight scumlean of Chara, on the account of "ingratiating with Sujimichi" - as if Replica knew beforehand suji was town, but wanted to distance from Chara. He also points out how Chara and Hectic are interacting weirdly in the second part of this post.
In post 300, Replica wrote: In post 292, alimdia wrote:Regarding
Replica
, I would reserve comment until they respond to Amrun's question.
When you address this, do you mind including where you were at before the answer, and what you were hoping for/received specifically from the response as you think relevant?
I set out for tonight with a goal to get a townread and a heal vote down to match, as productive as poking at things I don't like about Nacho/Chara is that's only half the game right now (Though Nacho or Amrun might argue it's more). I remembered really liking Chemist and so skimmed them again. I liked
#27 being pretty enthusiastic about Hectic, the impatience lining up well with the rest of Chemist's play, and
#29's reaction to Billy's meta was solid. The middle parts are lackluster, and then the Heal vote on Asreel in
#62 confuses me: A light instinct to TR Asreel is fine,
but switching the heal vote from Hectic seemed wack
.
HEAL: Hectic There's a chance this stays but it's the best I can see without reading more, especially given the votes already on it. I need to sleep for now, hopefully can revisit specific players and reads more clearly tomorrow now that I'm caught up and have answered all the questions I see.
HURT: popsofctown, removing a vote placed by my predecessor. I might use it for reads if I feel it'll be illustrative, but I'd be surprised if I placed a hurt vote the rest of the day unless absolutely required to hammer.
Furthering the scumlean on Chara, while at the same time hard townreading Hectic. Look at the bolded part and tell me if a soft chainsaw defense of Hectic makes sense
at this point in time
, when Replica had just argued with Chara for their interactions, and that gimmicking is not a good reason to townread Hectic slot. Then Replica outright HEALS Hectic, with reservations because of the amount of votes, and NEVER removes that votes for the entire game until Sujimichi happened. KEEP THIS IN MIND¹.
In post 337, Chara wrote:
and besides that, even if i don't know if i agree with what they think is best, because we aren't playing math here but mafia (as they said themself)
Here Chara pretty much agrees with
literally the same thing
i will say later in my argument against Replica. KEEP THIS IN MIND².
In post 380, Chara wrote:townreads are my strong suite more than anything.
i've been thinking about this while i've been working.
what
is
the main thrust of your Hectic read, Nacho? i agree he's towny, in that he is engaging with the game and giving reads that make sense,
but i don't know if that's worthy of an absolute locktown read
.
i know we only have a day left, which is unfortunate, but in terms of spare targets i am most sure of, it would be Replica more than anything.
HEAL: Replica
there's the style to the posting (something that i believe is inherent to Replica, which is not AI in and of itself) first of all, which rings honest. i'm not explaining it well but i think it's something that's really difficult to fake, the way that Replica has essentially introduced themself and their methodology and then proceeded to apply it in a way that does not seem performative.
i kind of don't want to know who they are but i can't help wondering anyway.
Hectic isn't a bad spare either, but i am curious what makes him so locktown to you.
Chara HEALS Replica here, switching its
77 vote on Hectic, in a gamestate where Hectic was L-1 from a spare hammer and had intent from Suji. Look at the bolded though: Chara is not strong on townreading Hectic at this point, whereas Replica is its highest townread.
In post 392, Hectic wrote: In post 380, Chara wrote:
there's the style to the posting (something that i believe is inherent to Replica, which is not AI in and of itself) first of all, which rings honest. i'm not explaining it well but i think it's something that's really difficult to fake, the way that Replica has essentially introduced themself and their methodology and then proceeded to apply it in a way that does not seem performative.
i kind of don't want to know who they are but i can't help wondering anyway.
you there.
they've been consistently open-minded and transparent.
only weird thing is i didn't agree with either of the assessments in
275.
the first looks like a fluff post not relevant to alignment.
the second is something others also expressed in-thread.
many didn't realise that SPARING means no flips = no information.
but then their thoughts on Asriel or Sherlock in
296 are very reasonable.
and this is similar across their ISO like in their interactions with Nacho.
willing to SPARE this pal too.
Hectic willing to spare Replica. Why? Never voted for him though.
In post 494, Replica wrote:I disagree with the conclusion of Farkran's
#444, I buy most of Sujimichi's
#420 in explaining their reaction. I do think
#456 is a bit delusional about the divorce bit, but I come out of this still liking Sujimichi over others. It might be helpful to try to order people somewhat; I'll try and circle back to that in a bit. Their mention of town Sujimichi also makes me want to go back and read them.
For multiple reasons Sujimichi is very low on my list to lynch.
First: Willingness to hammer the spare
. Second: Their playstyle strongly hints to me that we have to look for voting/pushing patterns over tone. Farkran's started to delve into the latter,
but this is not my pick for the day.
P-Edit: The "I do not respond to pressure" is again failing to recognize their own limits I think, which is a shame. That's a liability for us, but it's also a big liability for them as a player more broadly.
Replica trying again to pocket Suji - note this was before Sherlock pointed out the townslip, and therefore before Suji's FN claim as well. Look at the bolded: first reason to townread suji is
sparing Hectic
. Also Replica was nullreading me at the time.
In post 500, Replica wrote:Rough ordering of players for me, scum to town. More because it's a good thought exercise to challenge me with than anything else:
Scum
-------
Nacho
Chara
Chemist
Psyche
Amrun
Sujimichi
Hectic
Farkran
Alimdia
Sherlock
-------
Town
The bottom is a weak cluster of townleans, the only one I'd call a real scumlean is Nacho, Chara I'm still skeptical of but not to the point I'd lynch them anytime soon. I was neutral on almost all of his posting this game but that Chemist read was absolutely awful. I also read a bit of the original Undertale before bed last night hoping to see more on his spare opinions, which were consistent with this game, but I wound up being struck by the difference in tone. I'd need to go further in and a 1 game sample size isn't great, but for now that read on Chemist is so singularly terrible that I really would shed no tears for him.
I know I didn't like something from Chara
last night, will try to find it but might not get to it before I go for the night.
Readlist from Replica speaks for itself. It's scum to the top, town to the bottom, for those who are used to the other way around. Post
502 explains the bit about Chara.
In post 506, Hectic wrote:not really feeling up to this but i checked farkran...
like him as well so wouldn't FIGHT there today...
agree with some of his recent thoughts...
only person am semi confident in fighting is chara for now...
will leave it as an option but would still prefer to SPARE...
psyche slot is nullscum...
HURT: Chara
Hectic scumreading Chara at this point. Townleans me, nullscums Psyche.
In post 561, Chara wrote:HURT: pops
Farkran: i explained my Hectic spare when i gave the summary, i believe. early game he was towny and engaging.
the decision to delay his own spare is really the sticking point. there's really no reason for scum to not spare themselves there, and given where the gamestate was at at the time, scum Hectic being afraid of asking to be spared doesn't seem right either. i can't really see him as scum besides, and the regret at not hammering his own spare was something i didn't like upon seeing it, but i really doubt scum decides to lament that when we've gotten a much more fulfilling day out if it, in my opinion.
going to look at the count before i do anything as i don't want to end the day yet.
Chara still strongly townread hectic, providing reasons - except, look at my reply to its post 380, several lines above this. All the reasons stated by Chara in 561 were already present at the point in time of 380. Still, Chara is healing Replica now.
In post 570, Chara wrote:i'm still reading but:
really very town: Hectic, Replica
townish: Chemist, Sujimichi, Amrun
leftovers: alimdia, Psyche, Sherlock, Nacho
scum?: Farkran
Now Hectic is back in the top townreads, and i suddenly fell to the bottom. I was townleaning Chara at this point, Replica and Hectic were nulltown (
401).
In post 607, Replica wrote:
HEAL: popsofctown this one's not just an unvote, it's really for you, the MVP for all the work you put into running this and for letting me replace in.
HEAL: Hectic but ONLY FOR A SECOND WE STILL ON THE SPARE TRAIN CHOO CHOO
Remember my keep in mind note ¹? The train of votes on Hectic suddenly turned from a reservation to a bonus reason to heal there.
Roughly at this point, Sujimichi townslip was pointed out, and shortly later the long and passionate exchange between me and Replica happened.
.
In post 724, Hectic wrote:HURT: unvote
i may have been wrong about Chara...
but i am a little suspicious...
i'm still hiding from her after we started playing hide and seek and she still hasn't found me...
maybe scum-indicative...?
Hectic reconsiders his scumread of Chara, but still scumleans it.
In post 816, Chara wrote: In post 813, Farkran wrote:More gratuitous shade - there is nothing in my theory that i haven't been explaining solidly and properly, even if you believe i am wrong. Resorting to omgus-fossing when you are out of arguments is not the correct move.
HURT: Farkran
the solidity of your theory or the consistency of your explanation has little to do with your towniness. it does have everything to do with scum who try to be correct in order to avoid being caught in a contradiction.
it also doesn't make any sense if you scumread Replica to word it this way. it's like you're saying if town Replica should find your argument sound, when the point of what you're saying is that they're scum.
that's not quite exactly what i mean but i hope it comes across.
Chara starts scumreading me for my push on Replica and nothing else.
In post 848, Chara wrote:i think Farkran is scum for reasons besides disagreeing about optimal strategy.
I would be very curious to hear these now, since you are already fighting me in d2 when i argued against Replica
for the exact same reasons you pointed out in my note ²
.
In post 887, Replica wrote:Where I'm at is Sujimichi/Sherlock/Chara town, good chance of Hectic and then Alim being in there, Chemist/Amrun next up, then Farkrun/Psyche/Nacho holding the scum.
At the end of day 1, both Chara and Replica are scumreading me, whereas they are townreading themselves and Hectic. This is pretty much a very convoluted omgus/chainsaw defense, there are no other reasons to scumread me at this point - none of Asriel ISO has been used for a scumcase, which would have been something i would agree with - but i specifically asked if they scumread Farkran because of Farkran, and they said they do.
In post 925, Hectic wrote:
Though I would LOVE to show some of the people here the TRUE nature of this world, we have a wealth of information from yesterday to push home 3 more SPAREs on town. Ugh.
Replica and Chara are good places to start. Chara's late posting yesterday was very townie
Last but not least, this. Wow.
