Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not familiar with fakeclaiming scum, and if it's not fakeclaiming then my sense of humor is shot. My rationale, with a sense of humor or a lack thereof, is that you don't joke about bombs at an airport unless you want to be thrown in prison, and likewise you don't joke about being scum unless you want to be lynched. Hence why I'm dropping Lowell and going after Greasy Spot.

[BlakAdder]

Wow, Coug, way to overreact.

[armlx]

armix, you never answered my question. You neither, Korts. I'm not seein your respective cases.

Sorry, here is why: Korts has been all over the place vote wise, and kept digging at the vig issue.

SC, Greasy does things like this. I don't get why, but he does.

[Greasy Spot]

I think this game has the potential to the longest game post wise.

[forbiddanlight]

Sorry, here is why: Korts has been all over the place vote wise, and kept digging at the vig issue.

That was your case on Korts then? So why is that better than the other options? Not just the ones I mentioned (though they were scummy), but is there anyone else you are looking at? I will say that given what you say there, Korts does look bad.

[Blarginoid]

im new so idk wat 2 do

[BlakAdder]

im new so idk wat 2 do

How about posting in coherent english for starters?
Seriously though, do you mean new to the sight, or new to Mafia in general?

[armlx]

im new so idk wat 2 do

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8208

[Muerrto]

This is kind of disjointed because it's as I read it:

Wow. Roflcopter...WTF. Armlx didn't fish for your role and claiming IM is town on page 1? I'll tell you when you're older? Geez dude drop the arrogance. Anyone who claims they found scum on page 1 is scum. I'll see if that opinion changes as we go along.

Armlx asking why Rofl thought IM was town isn't demanding an investigation result! It's asking how the hell you get a town read on someone on page 1. Korts joins the club with Rofl for post #35.

Iamusername comes in and smacks down Kort AND Rofl, townie points and 100% correct post.

Again rofl with crap logic. The only reson they ask why is X obv town means they're asking if you're a power role??? What the...NO the reason they ask is because they wanna know why the hell you'd claim someone obv town on page 1. It was such a god awful post he wanted to know how much crack you smoked before the game.

I don't like Rofl so far but Blak adding to him without content is bad.

I get what Lowell's going for with the masons but the logic's off. Sorry but Armlx's next post is dead on as to why.

And lo and behold Rofl claims mason, I'm quite okay with testing that myself at this point but we'll see how that changes. What a horribly bad claim.

Rofl goes off on Stranger unvoting even though IM confirming him means jack and squat since they could both be scum and Rofl is nowhere near a lynch at this time.

Um..Armlx didn't rolefish you, you came out in your very first post and said 'My mason partner is obv town' with no reason behind it. If you ARE a mason I feel sorry for IM.

so i repeat, please stop being retarded and unvote before you get yourself lynched in armlx's place.

Mason or not I already don't like you, personally. You step in and basically say 'We're lynching who I want so suck it up or you're next' How the hell is that A. pro-town or B. encouraging enjoyment of the game.

Stranger votes Lowell for 'rolefishing' but he didn't fish it from anyone in particular and he stated his reasons that while flawed make some sense. Don't like Stranger doing this especially right after Forbid mentions it.

Blak unvotes when called out on his vote but still gives no reason for giving it in the first place.

Ok, Mason or not, Roflcopter's ego is insanely annoying. Do you read your own posts? You're also willing to quickly jump on anyone who jumped on you BEFORE your claim. Townies can't vote for someone who claims someone's obv town on page 1? Never seen a mason claim that early, wow. So bad.

Did I miss somewhere that said the masons in this game get an investigation? Whether they're claimed masons or not means jack. It means they're not LYING in their posts. It doesn't mean they're automatically RIGHT. The whole town is taking Rofl's word for gospel. How does he have more info than you do? Bad plays all around.

he claimed because Lowell asked the masons to claim and he happened to be one.

In that case, he is just dumb for listening to Lowell.

QFT. I can't believe he did. And I'm notorious for claiming early.

Um..Greasy, how does outing the Masons provide cover for the other roles? With the masons(glorified townies that can talk at night, by your own words) outed, the scum have that much higher chance of hitting a power role. Why would the scum kill the masons?

Don't like Blak's post again. Massively lurking and contributing nothing.

Forbid: Claiming vanilla helps the scum period. Townies don't(or shouldn't) lie about their role, period. So now the scum has 1 less target after losing 2 masons. Great shot at hitting some power roles. It is most definitely anti-town. Not scummy, anti-town.

OK, so IAUN tackled that one and Forbid responded in the correct way. His votes should be dropping off now from the large town tell.

Dear god how horrible a player is Vamp(me). Does he plan on contributing?

Hate Lowell's strat for the masons but like how he calls Korts and Forbid town. I'm getting the same thing so far after Forbid's last post especially. Kind of mid ground on Korts.

Stranger OMGUS's Forbid after he's shown some good town tells. He was also voting Lowell before he did it. Not liking Stranger.

Jesus Vamp comes in and just unvotes?

I can't tell if Greasy is legitimately upset or obv scum. Too stupid to be a townie? You're kidding.

Well, since I'm town I greatly dislike the rapid wagon forming on me. Especially Stranger's and IM's but sadly it seems IM always plays like this, contributing little and popping in for a vote. And since he's a 'mason' it looks worse on Stranger. Although Vamp is playing horribly.

Blak comes in, puts in no content at all and hypocritically FoS's Vamp and offers to vote him later when the town's okay with it.

Kort didn't rolefish. Armlx screwed up and confirmed he couldn't NOT be the vig because he likes killing night 0 and Kort read it wrong and said he confirmed he's NOT the vig. Not only was Kort wrong but he simply confirmed what he thought Armlx had already said. Bad to point it out? Yes. Scummy? No, if he was scum he could PM his buddies tonight and kill Armlx then if he thought he was the vig. Since he didn't push his lynch or anything, why would that make him scummy?

FL, I never assume stupid scum, and when I see someone doing something blatantly anti-town, I can't help but call them out for stupidity. Also, I realize now that I completely misinterpreted armlx's post, so he hasn't, in fact, tacit claimed non-vig.

Case in point.

IAUN: I have no scum read on you whatsoever but Kort never rolefished. He confirmed what Armlx had already said(wrong but till). Pretend Armlx HAD been against a night 0 kill. Then HE'S the own who accidently claimed non-vig. Kort reapeating it was stupid, not rolefishing, and not scummy(as stated above about him being able to PM and all).

Ok, I don't like Rofl's ego but I HAD to quote this post:

in re: the vig fishing, it was not a smart comment, but it was not something i see as rolefishing.

The rest of the post about Blak possibly slipping comments to his scum buddies is off because as I've stated many times, SCUM CAN PM!!! Why'd he mention it during the day for the town instead of waiting for night to PM? Do I still think he's scummy? Of course. But not for this.

Stranger leaps onto Blak off Vamp when his wagon starts to die off. Anyone seen how many wagons Stranger's been on? Geez.

'I don't want to be replaced'??? Are you TEN? Jesus what have I got to work with here?

@Forbid: You see Vamp as scum at this point or a bad player? Don't lynch a bad player just because they don't contribute. Lynch scum.

@fl: policy lynches (lynching Vamp because he's not likely to play insightfully) are bad for town, because policy lynching draws attention away from scumhunting, while also declaring the necessity for someone to die regardless of alignment. This does not lead to winning. I'm explaining this nicely to you because you seem fresh.

More town points for Kort. How is he still the lynch, Armlx? He never rolefished, you should know better than that. He stupidly spouted out info the scum didn't need but that doesn't make him scummy. See Ting in our last game, the Xxyzz one. He wasn't scum but he certainly told the scum exactly what to do in each situation. Everyone chewed him out for it but he wasn't lynched for it because he wasn't scum.

@Forbid: How was Vamp scummy? He was a bad player? He voted for wagons? But how is adding 1 vote to a random wagon going to lynch someone? He never pushed anyone's lynch, he never even gave content. He was simply a bad player. And I'm quite glad he was replaced.

Um...Korts, Rofl has been setting up day 2 and 3 lynches all game. Even suggesting Vig/SK kills. So if he's doing it as town, why does that make Armlx scum?

Stranger jumps on Armlx wagon. Is anyone keeping count how many wagons he's jumped any more?

I like the Vig directing actually but I'd like it on IM because:

A. He's lurking as bad as Vamp and not contributing anything.

B. I wanna test the masons.

One dead mason instead of the Vig possibly accidently hitting a power role randomly is a good trade and if they ARE pulling a risky as hell scum gambit, we'll know then. Saying wait till LYLO is all well and good but what if they ARE scum and we get to LYLO? Do we kill a mason to test then? When it'll cost us the game? I think not.

This way we don't waste our lynch on them though since the chance is slim they're scum.

Silence pops up, promises a post, disappears...I really hate lurkers. Not saying he's scum. Saying I hate lurkers on a personal level.

Point b) is total crap, since Greasy Spot has never presented any case against me besides "too stupid to be a townie", which is in fact not a case at all.

Point c/d) is also crap, because as I said, I'm in favour of a Vamp vig as well.

Point a) is also wrong, for the record.

Also, "trying to undermine the majority" is not a scum tell. Anything else?

He's my new hero. The case at this point is extremely weak and being run by the person who voted him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' which I called him out for earlier in my post. This wagon is bad.

Um..Stranger wants Lowell to explain his claim of tunnel vision by GS? Are you joking? He's been tunnelling IAUN all game!

I dislike everyone saying directing the Vig or talking about the Vig etc is pointless and wrong and scummy. As I stated earlier, using the Vig to test the masons is pretty much the only way we can be sure they won't both be there in LYLO. Does it have to be tonight? No. But if the Vig dies we'll have to waste a lynch on a mason eventually, and I'd much rather waste a Vig kill than a lynch. If someone can explain to me in great detail why this plan is bad, please do so.

Stranger looks worse with his FoS to Lowell for something that has nothing to do with him being scum or not.

Blak jumps on Stranger when the momentum starts getting stronger. Bussing? I hope so because I still think Stranger's scummier than hell.

AYYYY! It's the Fonz!

Seriously OMG IM comes in says he has nothing for us, doesn't want to be replaced(in case his replacement misses they claimed masons? a stretch but Rofl has been saying his 'untouchable' 'confirmed townie' thing ad nauseam) and leaves. Perfect Vig test, period. WTF.

Stranger's the Vig? Hm...Well obviously the Vig isn't going to counter claim him. And we can't lynch him. But do I buy it? Hell no.

But in better news, the Vig can kill Stranger tonight if he's lying.

That said, if SC is lying, there is no reason to counter claim or lynch her. Real vig just NK's.

More townie points for Armlx. Where is his wagon coming from?


In summary. Lynch Blak, Vig Iron. Directing the vig is NOT scummy. Vamp was a GOD AWFUL player. Testing the masons is 100% necessary before LYLO. Vig obv kills Stranger if he's lying.

Good day 1 so far, needs to end though. Not seeing the case on Korts per my post. How does everyone not have Blak on your list of scum?

Vote: Blak

[armlx]

Vig Iron.

Where is this coming from? Vig claimed mason N1 seems poor.

[iamausername]

Here's a reason why using the vig to test the masons is a bad idea; it's unnecessary, because the SK will almost certainly be doing that for us before LYLO.

That's not even mentioning the fact that potentially outing half your scum team on the 50/50 chance that there are no real masons to counterclaim is an insane play that I couldn't see roflcopter trying, for all of his madness.

[armlx]

IAUN, more likely mafia then SK, but same diff.

Just assuming rofl is being dumb and IM is being lurkish is a better idea for now then vig testing.

The rest of Muerrto's stuff is good tho.

[iamausername]

IAUN, more likely mafia then SK, but same diff.

Well, not if they actually turn out to be lying scum.

[Muerrto]

Vig Iron.

Where is this coming from? Vig claimed mason N1 seems poor.

And when the vig dies we either:

A. lose a lynch to test them

B. don't test them and hope

Sorry. I don't like either of those. It's a good a use of the Vig as any and it saves us from the 2 above choices.

Also, could you comment on the rest of the post? You too IAUN.

[armlx]

Muerrto, you forgot C. The SK tests them for us or the mafia kills them because we assume/know they are town.

[armlx]

That said, I still think Korts is scummy, but Blak could use a lynching as well.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, you forgot C. The SK tests them for us or the mafia kills them because we assume/know they are town.

Why? Masons are simply townies who can PM. If I was mafia OR an SK there's no way I'd waste my kill on a mason instead of hunting a power role. And Stranger(assuming he's legit) is outed so he's dead most likely tonight so we WILL be wasting a lynch to test them later. Where's the disadvantage to testing them now? He's already a claimed mason, he's NOT contributing, so he doesn't affect the day or the night, yes?

[armlx]

Mafia usually is forced to kill masons later though due to sheer numbers. And SC dying isn't so clear cut.

[strife220]

Actually, after a quick reread:
If we don't lynch Korts, can we lynch Lowell? He's made about a post every page; most every post is just 1 or 2 sentences. He pushed outing the masons with no meta proving that he actually believes it's a good move (subjective point, I know, but I think it's anti town). He's accused like 6 people of being pro-town. He made a vote on Sun Tzu without giving a reason, later stating he was 'just trying to get a wagon going for pressure,' apparently on a completely random player. Finally he's complaining about the vig, essentially discouraging him from using his kills.

Unvote, Vote: Lowell

in hopes that people will join in. It takes about 2 minutes to reread all of his posts, and I think when read in sequence it becomes apparent that he's trying to seem pro-town without actually doing anything useful.

Would still like to see Korts lynched but that wagon seems to be stalled.

This is horrible.

1) "Accusing" people of being town is every bit as useful (in terms of me getting my opinions out there) as is hopping my vote around or peppering the field with FOSs. I tend to find scum through process of elimination.

2) I'm still right about the mason thing, and there is precedent for it. Quit your whining.

3) The vote on Sun Tzu wasn't random. Suffice to say it's a meta thing, and refers to another game. Also, it's a single vote. Who cares?

4) The fact that my posts don't take long to read is GOOD, not bad. If only everyone could express themselves so succinctly.

1) What benefit does the town get from learning who you think is town? We verbally accuse people of being scum in hopes of them proving us right. Unless a person is in danger of being lynched, the pro-town thing to do is to keep town tells to yourself

2) Mafia get more information for their choices, and masons likely won't make it to end-game - the only point when they're particularly useful. Town gain nothing but a bit of time because they don't have to attack the masons. You're miles from being right.

3) A single vote is the most powerful thing an individual has in the game. Moreover, you said that single vote was with hopes of starting a pressure-wagon. What more could you have done?

4) Short is fine. Short and low on content is subtle lurking - you've done zero scum hunting.


This is all 'standard lowell behaviour' ???

I don't like Lowell's posts, which is why I confirm voted him, but I don't like this post of yours either. You're spoiling an otherwise good attack on Lowell by encouraging bandwagoning and going for the easiest lynch possible.

Major HoS: strife220

Confused... why is encouraging bandwagoning bad? And how is Lowell the easiest lynch possible? He was one of 8 people that had votes on them at the time. Why not a HOS to Korts for saying:

Actually, if some people would be willing to vote armlx, that'd be all kinds of great.

since it's also explicitly encouraging bandwagoning?

Why is Korts better than Tin Vision or Blak Adder? ... So, tell me why Tin Vision or Blak Adder aren't good lynches? Or someone else of your choosing?

This looks like a logical fallacy but I have no clue what the name is. Not quite a strawman - it's just an impossible to answer question. He said Korts was a good lynch, and you want him to essentially 'prove' that he's a better lynch than Tin and Blak Adder? If you think Tin or Blak Adder is a better lynch, it's your job to provide a superior case.

The case on Korts is certainly not entirely based on an SC connection, since it came up before there was any major suspicion of SC, although SC being vig weakens it some.

I don't think my reason for Voting Korts had anything to do with a connection to SC. Definitely doesn't weaken it for me

My rationale... is that you don't joke about bombs at an airport unless you want to be thrown in prison,

You just finished xyyzy's game with GS in it. Go re-read his... 2? posts in that game. GS clearly has no problem with joking about bombs. Armix is right with his meta.



LOL@Muerrto for having to read his predecessor's posts.

I am NOT happy with Muerrto encouraging a vig on IM. Firstly, it'd be terrible for scum to claim masons D1 in a large game with a SK. They'd never make it to endgame. Secondly - they won't both make it to end game, town or scum. Masons are too powerful end-game for scum (mafia or SK) to leave them alive. There's certainly no rush to 'test' their masonry.

Point b) is total crap, since Greasy Spot has never presented any case against me besides "too stupid to be a townie", which is in fact not a case at all.

Point c/d) is also crap, because as I said, I'm in favour of a Vamp vig as well.

Point a) is also wrong, for the record.

Also, "trying to undermine the majority" is not a scum tell. Anything else?

He's my new hero. The case at this point is extremely weak and being run by the person who voted him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' which I called him out for earlier in my post. This wagon is bad.

What? This is IAUN responding to my saying his direct on the vig was scummy. I wasn't voting him, it wasn't a case, I certainly wasn't voting him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' (since I wasn't voting him at all). And there is no wagon. So you seem to have completely misread this, but came to a nice solid conclusion ('he's you're hero') anyway? This to me is scummy - like you're not actually reading what's being said and just fitting your statements together so that they'll appear concrete. Please elaborate on how you made your conclusions and what you mis-read.

[strife220]

Where's the disadvantage to testing them now?

The chance of hitting actual scum or actual SK?

If they're masons, the SK won't be in a rush to kill them, but if he wants to stand any chance of winning, he'll have to kill them before lylo.

Actually, I don't understand why we're even entertaining the chance of them being scum. Like IAUN said above, scum risking outing half their team, hoping that don't get SK'd or counter-claimed is too ridiculous to consider.

[armlx]

This is all 'standard lowell behaviour' ???

Pretty much, except the mason thing which is simply a scenario I haven't seen him in before.

Lowell is an easy lynch because his play style is naturally scummy. Encouraging light wagoning isn't that bad usually, but can be.

fl's post is a straw man I think.

Agree with strife's points on the masons.

[Muerrto]

I am NOT happy with Muerrto encouraging a vig on IM. Firstly, it'd be terrible for scum to claim masons D1 in a large game with a SK. They'd never make it to endgame. Secondly - they won't both make it to end game, town or scum. Masons are too powerful end-game for scum (mafia or SK) to leave them alive. There's certainly no rush to 'test' their masonry.

Point b) is total crap, since Greasy Spot has never presented any case against me besides "too stupid to be a townie", which is in fact not a case at all.

Point c/d) is also crap, because as I said, I'm in favour of a Vamp vig as well.

Point a) is also wrong, for the record.

Also, "trying to undermine the majority" is not a scum tell. Anything else?

He's my new hero. The case at this point is extremely weak and being run by the person who voted him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' which I called him out for earlier in my post. This wagon is bad.

What? This is IAUN responding to my saying his direct on the vig was scummy. I wasn't voting him, it wasn't a case, I certainly wasn't voting him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' (since I wasn't voting him at all). And there is no wagon. So you seem to have completely misread this, but came to a nice solid conclusion ('he's you're hero') anyway? This to me is scummy - like you're not actually reading what's being said and just fitting your statements together so that they'll appear concrete. Please elaborate on how you made your conclusions and what you mis-read.

No. The train is being engineered by GS, despite whatever you said about IAUN. GS's reasoning was 'he's too stupid to be a townie' which I SPECIFICALLY mentioned in my post. Has nothing to do with you.

As for the masons, having a different opinion isn't scummy. If we don't test the masons, we'll regret it later, all I'm going to say about that since I'm in the minority. But I will be sure to say I told you so when it comes up.

[armlx]

Muerrto, if anything, your behavior has created a self-fulfilling prophecy in that now that the mafia know there is doubt in the town about the masons they will act around said doubt.

[roflcopter]

muerrto, having a different opinion isn't necessarily scummy, but this particular opinion IS scummy because it only benefits the scum.

if both of us make it to lylo, GREAT. the scum would have to be complete idiots to not have killed us by then.

you think it was completely moronic to claim mason on day one and out my partner. how much MORE moronic would it have been to claim mason on day one as

scum

and out one of my partners? in a game with an sk? if one of us ever died (which we will, sooner or later), the other would be a freebie for the town. its just not plausible.

and now you want to direct what may be the only vig shot at iron man, claimed mason. the thing i really don't get is that you obviously think i'm a complete idiot, but you don't want the vig to shoot me, you want him to shoot iron. what?

if the vig is directed, in thread, to shoot one of the claimed masons, you know who benefits? its not the town, i'll tell you that much. the sk sure gets a benefit, cause hey, there's one annoying town sort of power role out of the way. the mafia benefits for the same reason. but the best part for the sk/mafia is that, if they are interested in killing a mason themselves tonight instead of hunting for better prs,

they know which one is ALREADY being taken care of

.

your post was full of anti-rofl and ironman rhetoric, which really makes me think you were trying to make the idea of killing one of us popular on the grounds that we're either annoying or unhelpful on top of the ridonk "test the masons" idea, so that you don't look quiiite as scummy when the vig shoots iron man and his role reveal is "mason." the idea that you'll ever have to "waste a lynch" testing us is also completely bogus.

vig, if you want to kill somebody completely unhelpful, or who you find annoying, please make sure it is not one of the CLAIMED MASONS.

unvote, vote: muerrto

these are the two ways aside from a scum directing the vig to kill a mason that the masons will become even more confirmed:

1) we'll die soon
2) three other people will die and be scum, starting with muerrto

[strife220]

No. The train is being engineered by GS, despite whatever you said about IAUN. GS's reasoning was 'he's too stupid to be a townie' which I SPECIFICALLY mentioned in my post. Has nothing to do with you.

You quoted a post where IAUN was responding directly to me about a post that I made. How does that have anything to do with GS and nothing to do with me?