White Flag - TM2020

[Dannflor]

honestly if Dong flips town here then Auro or BB probably gets NKed (whichever slot ends up with less suspicion / town reads me more / is calmer)

and then you get your Dann lynch in LyLo anyway

but I think Dong just ends it

[Dannflor]

Dunn dying over Cephrir or Cheeky points to Dong!scum as well

much much more than it points to me!scum lmao

[Dannflor]

A message from Eddie Cane!

Yeah if dann is scum he can just win for that, I'm good.

I don't want to lynch Dannflor,

You guys are fucking idiots if you think these night kills ever make sense for a scum!Dann who was being pushed by multiple players on both days (Cheeky, Gobble, Esp, Hopkirk, Formerfish). Fucking idiots. Fucking reminding me why I quit this fucking site. Fucking idiots. Fucking idiots. I really really HOPE to god that I am wrong and you are just scum here Cheeky, because you're playing worse than fucking licketyquickety. Fucking idiots. Fuck you all. Yes, of course a wagon of Dong + Gobble + Cheeky + FF will hit scum. Sure. Fucking idiots.

I hope you lose.

[Dannflor]

I really just posted that EC post because I wanted an excuse to curse a bunch in thread

but like the point stands

[Dannflor]

I keep going back to Danns posts towards Auro and I think i finally put my finger on something that was bugging me. Danns engagement with Auro looks a lot like what happened in 1942 with Icon/Imp/Myself.

Imp was scum and had captured Icons agency and they fought me tooth and nail to the point where i lost my fucking mind and posted more myself than newbies games are usually long.

It would explain my shit read on Auro as well, since its being driven by someone other than himself.

VOTE: Dann

absolutely stellar btw

[Dannflor]

If I am lynched today AURO IS NOT TO BE TOUCHED IN LYLO

[Dannflor]

which means he probably just gets NKed ))

[Dannflor]

Ank says she’s very disappointed in you Cheeky

[Dannflor]

Also, what exactly happened to FF reconsidering Dong and deciding he was the scummiest slot today over Auro/Me?

The sudden epiphanies are very convenient and even in the scenario he's town, not good reasoning.

[Dannflor]

I think I'm not even angery anymore

This is just funny

[Dannflor]

Also, what exactly happened to FF reconsidering Dong and deciding he was the scummiest slot today over Auro/Me?

The sudden epiphanies are very convenient and even in the scenario he's town, not good reasoning.

Didnt realize that you had a monopoly on self doubt and self doubting your self doubt.

Does Dong voting with you there give you any doubt?

I'm confused who you think my team is if it's not Auro and it seems like instead of naturally doubting yourself, you've just completely forgotten the read you just had. Like, are you town reading Dong now? Did your epiphany on me have an effect on his status at all?

[Dannflor]

Except...

FF just said I'm pocketing Auro...

[Dannflor]

They are making a momentary moment of doubt about you out to be some kind of damning evidence.

X

[Dannflor]

I keep going back to Danns posts towards Auro and I think i finally put my finger on something that was bugging me. Danns engagement with Auro looks a lot like what happened in 1942 with Icon/Imp/Myself.

Imp was scum and had captured Icons agency and they fought me tooth and nail to the point where i lost my fucking mind and posted more myself than newbies games are usually long.

It would explain my shit read on Auro as well, since its being driven by someone other than himself.

VOTE: Dann

Is your reasoning for voting me here not literally that it gut-feels like I'm pocketing Auro? Who would be my partner in the case that Auro is town?

[Dannflor]

This isn't semantics this is literally the entirety of your logical reasoning, at least what of it you've displayed in thread.

[Dannflor]

My PoE has it down to 2 people, you and Auro. I know there is a chance that im wrong, so im saying I want you first because.

I dont get what is so hard to understand about what ive been saying. Ive been more than forward about most of it.

Okay. What had you feeling town about Dong again? I understand moments of weakness/self-doubt.

What did you see in Dong that set you straight again?

[Dannflor]

A message from Eddie Cane!

Spoiler:

Just so you guys all know, while keeping the night kills and the D1 lynch that happened due to Dann swinging off BBmolla as the 4th vote on NSG rather than going back to FF in mind...

I'm extremely excited to give you all 10s in the post game survey. You caught my masterful scum game plan of killing every player town reading this slot, killing my partner D1 for no reason with people hard defending them, and then trying way harder than I needed to to solve by rereading the game multiple times over. Excellent job everyone. The town core of Cheeky, FF, and Dong are the true heroes of this game. Ceph, Dunn, Kitty, Auro, Molla, and myself could all learn a thing or two from you!

I'm going to go back to not playing mafia after Team Mafia. Not because of salt. Purely because I am not on your level. Might as well hammer Gobble, join the rest of your town core!

Somehow he's even saltier than me and he's not even in this game.

[Dannflor]

His case on Auro, how fucking chill he was about me even having a doubt about him.

I had time to think about how just because something happened in one game that i could see happening here doesnt mean that that likelihood is high, just that it exists.

Say I flip town, is your solve Dong/Auro?

[Dannflor]

Like while you should have been taking a 2nd look at her you didnt

Auro literally said if the lynch went through on him to kill Cheeky next.

[Dannflor]

[Dannflor]

No. The answer is no.

[Dannflor]

And I'm scum because...?

[Dannflor]

gg?

[Dannflor]

For me the solve is Dann > Auro/Dong

[Dannflor]

did I absorb my partner and am now the solo scum

[Dannflor]

uh huh

[Dannflor]

Welp that was not as towny as I was hoping at all

[Dannflor]

guys there was a VC literally 2 pages ago

everyone had to have known right

[Dannflor]

I swore I thought Cheeky was just playing along

[Dannflor]

I don't agree Dong's reaction was particularly towny.

Not least ways because I doubt scum doesn't check the VC in that situation. I instantly knew and I'm surprised anyone was fooled.

[Dannflor]

Yes? I'm still surprised!

[Dannflor]

I think a prepared reaction from Dong would've been different.

How so?

[Dannflor]

BB, why are you town reading FF

please give me something more than "the way that the wagons were"

[Dannflor]

why is anyone town reading FF

I still don't understand

[Dannflor]

wow it's incredibly frustrated to see Cheeky be so conf biased that she scum reads Auro for not answering a question he answered 5 times

[Dannflor]

Auro, I think BB is... pretty obviously town? And I'll try to explain that here

but also I need you to go into Dong way more

like... I'm seriously worried you're TMIing his alignment if you're not scum with him because I don't understand your turn on that slot at all

[Dannflor]

Dongempire's reaction to the fakehammer seems to come from town over scum knowing it was a fakehammer. He isn't bothering a lot about his own lynch. He's angry that I said Molla will hammer me, and that comes from town.

like this specifically

[Dannflor]

A lot of it comes from the fact that BB has been a consistent voice of reason this day phase, not unlike you. Unlike Dong/FF, he's not just jumping on the easiest wagon but actually defending his reads against the typhoons that are me/you/Cheeky. His progression on Cheeky today was especially natural imo and mirrored my thoughts exactly.

I also think a BB/Gobble team is unlikely... which I know you'll hate hearing me say. Not impossible, just like... unlikely. In fact the only team I'd really be worried about with BB in it is BB/Cheeky. But I've kind of established at this point that if Cheeky is scum I'll just lose to her.

I'm trying to search for more reasons beyond *gut*, because I know you want more than that. But I think it's really hard for me to even consider him as scum (and the same goes for you to some extent) when almost every other slot has been either unreasonable or utilizing moon logic to justify their pushes. I don't think his solve of Dong/Auro is necessarily *bad*. I still think you're very independently townie but I understand where it comes from because of how much your turn on him threw me. In fact, I think his commitment to Dong when you've been a ready lynch this whole day phase is a generally good look, because I think Dong is ultimately the easier lynch in LyLo than you.

[Dannflor]

I'll flip it. Look at the gamestate. If you believe I'm town then the only viable partner for Dong is FF and that too seems super weak from their combined play; this automatically makes Gobbles, or even FF a superior lynch. Given fmpov I'm town, you should understand the turn on the slot *from me*.

Dong/Gobble is possible but I see your point

[Dannflor]

His defense of Gobbles in D2 was weird af, please re-read the posts. That's not the usual area where Molla gets emotional. He doesn't give that much of a shit if a townread of his is being wagoned on D2 *after* a scum lynch. Consider the counter hypothetical. Would he care if his partner was being wagoned to death? No shit? Obviously he'd have to come in and defend his partner - there was too much momentum to start an attack elsewhere. The AtE in those pages is extreme. He asks to be lynched instead because town is so shit. Yet, he acknowledges that there are valid points for scum Gob. He admits his read of Gob is from "gut" from a few posts.

I'll do this in a little bit btw

I remember this differently from how you describe so maybe I need to re-vet here

[Dannflor]

BB why doesn't Dong lynch gobbles or FF today?

Cheeky,

the win condition for an FF/Dong team, or EVEN an Dong/Gobble or what have you team, is to push Dann -> Auro or Auro -> Dann

Considering you and BBmolla are like the most universally town read players at this junction, kissing up to you two (both scum read Auro at start of day) and making up some bullshit to town read whoever in the [Dong/Gobble/FF] is town that they can easily go back on in LyLo works.

Like... Dong scum doesn't push the other "LHF" or whatever terminology you want to use because that fucks him

it also helps they were not the clear cut easier lynch coming in to today

[Dannflor]

Spoiler:

If you think Dong is 'pretty blatant scum' I'd prefer that you pushed that lynch over policy voting nsg

I'd rather do that than get to LYLO and have NSG not fucking posted all game because "sorry guys other games required attention."

whoever said lynching lurkers day 1 is a bad idea is wrong, everything I've ever experienced has shown proof of the opposite.

you can't read someone if they have no content to get a read from and that only gets worse as time goes on

BBmolla is the mafia commentator we have sorely missed.

I will look over this game tonight

VOTE: Gobble

If you’re right we win
these were the posts I had marked in PT as making a BB/Gobble team unlikely

but I'll go back to BB's push on Gobble D2 or D3 or whatever it was and see if I still feel the same
If you’re wrong you get no say in tomorrow’s lynch Auro

VOTE: Gobbles

Tbh I think Gobbles > Cheeky results in a game win. Unless anyone strongly believes in Dong/Auro as the scum team.

[Dannflor]

those were the posts I marked in PT as being unlikely for BB/Gobbles

but I'll go back to the initial push by BB and see if I still feel the same

[Dannflor]

"Hmm might be Auro/Dann", how does that look obvtown?

can you quote that?

sorry I'm running around atm without a lot of time and didn't see that catching up

otherwise I'll look later

[Dannflor]

I straight up don't remember ever pushing a Hop/Auro solve

[Dannflor]

What's your issue with a Dong/Gobble team again?

[Dannflor]

Auro is not within his scum range. That’s the strong opinion of both Ankamius and Duck. EC and I don’t have meta but we strongly town read him individually.

There’s been emotion creeping into his more recent posts that is extremely genuine. It’s actually frustration about not being listened to. Not once, however, have I picked up on any panic about being run-up or lynched. I have NEVER gotten that impression from him. Not once this game despite the pressure exerted on him. People aren’t looking at Auro with what is actually alignment indicative. It’s the same fucking circus since D1. People for some reason don’t like his posts and find ways to scum read it rather than actually looking at his ISO objectively.

I would be paranoid of Cheeky before truly reconsidering my Auro read more than briefly and even then, Cheeky is most likely just town.

Auro’s trajectories are nonsensical from a scum perspective, especially considering the whole reason he’s being rung up again is his shift to a town read on Dong.

If you don’t buy it’s FF/Dong because of the shitty distancing they did that, hey, actually paid off, then fine. If you look at them as objectively as you should be looking at Auro their content is still atrocious and there aren’t good reasons that I’ve seen to town read them.

But Auro, and Cheeky I guess, are always town here.

I repeat, Auro is always town here.

To make it more clear, if I die today:

AURO IS NOT TO BE TOUCHED IN YOUR FUCKING LYLO

[Dannflor]

Auro, I asked you about the Dong/Gobble team because I wanted to see your process and make sure you weren’t conf biasing into BB/Gobble

[Dannflor]

Lol I'm not going to hard defend you when I don't even know if you're town.

I don't know why you'd rather trust Dong and FF's reasoning over your own in case of either flip in {Dann/Auro}. Look at Dong's and FF's tunnels on me. The chance that they'd flip their read because it would for

you

is quite low.

A big factor in your play, Cheeky, is that you seem to think everyone behaves like you as town.

That line of thinking allows you to "trust" Dong and FF in LyLo.

That line of thinking makes you question my slot when I "calmly" react to your "batshit scumminess".

That line of thinking makes you question my slot when I show little paranoia about Dann.

EC still has the largest amount of paranoia about Cheeky because he has too much respect for her to believe she can play this poorly as town.

Like, Cheeky, you have to realize that if you’re wrong on me and Auro, which you are, the rest of the game has been desperately trying to align themselves with you since the beginning of the day. Wake up. FF has sheeped you from Auro to me to Dong to back to me and Auro again. He’s not towny he’s just playing to his win condition.

[Dannflor]

VOTE: FF

[Dannflor]

I still think you're conf biasing your Molla read. You said you'd revisit the contexts. Any result?

Haven’t had a chance yet.

Ank said she’s town reading BB based on the “unknown sync tell”, but that there’s a non zero chance she could be wrong.

I will make it my priority as I get time today to revisit that slot Auro. I’m on mobile so it may take some time but I’ll do it.

Right now though I’m just making sure my absolute strongest opinions get out there, which is that Auro is a game losing mislynch and at least one of FF/Dong has a very good chance of ending the game.

[Dannflor]

Oooh this might be Dong + Dann with that vote and plead for Cheeky.

lmao

[Dannflor]

Is that a real read Gobble

Have you been reading my posts

[Dannflor]

It’s not Auro + Dong

It’s not Dann + Dong either

Who else is scum Gobble

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

Ok

I’m gonna make sure Auro gets his due and I revisit BB seriously first though

[Dannflor]

I actually don’t know either lmao

ank threw that out in a slew of other thoughts about the game

My reasons for tr have to do with what I’ve already listed. You’re right that they’re not as good as I would like

[Dannflor]

Also I decided I’m rereading the whole game instead of just BB

But I’m gonna do it all by tonight because I’m gonna be V/LA this weekend

[Dannflor]

And I’m a fucking masochist

[Dannflor]

Gobble needs a partner for Dong that’s not one of me/you

[Dannflor]

gobble I literally said I would hammer Dong multiple times and pushed his wagon to L-1

And then I argued his reaction to a fake hammer was not towny

Yeah sure I’m a viable partner

[Dannflor]

Gobble don’t argue about how good you are

Argue about and improve your reads here

[Dannflor]

Cheeky can you stop bringing up Hopkirk as some kind of smoking gun against me when I wanted to use the rest of the day phase to sort things out and you + FF stopped any chance of that happening?

Espeonage, sure, my bad.

Hopkirk? I don’t take responsibility

And you hold me to this standard of my “push not making sense” when FF *literally* posts a paragraph irrelevant to his Hop read and then hammers him

[Dannflor]

I, too, am looking forward to it

[Dannflor]

Sigh

[Dannflor]

If you see my town flip and still vote Auro in LyLo... under like any circumstances

and you are in fact town

I just have no idea what the fuck you're even doing playing this game

[Dannflor]

Honestly though I think Auro gets night killed if I'm lynched today

[Dannflor]

I feel like my scum game is overrated

but that’s just me

Don't worry, we all agree that you're overrated.

rereading early game and I just laughed out loud at this

I shouldn't have tried to kill Hopkirk

[Dannflor]

:shrug:

I'd rather move on and talk about something else at this point

So I used a, single "particularly"

That is a ridiculous

VOTE: Cephrir

Gobble's interactions with Cephrir early on are nagl

Gobble's overreaction sticks out a lot more than I remember. A couple votes having him freaking out about being the mislynch... eh doesn't read too genuine but apparently I thought it was at the time

[Dannflor]

my current working townblock is {

dunn

,

kittymo

, wgeurts}

i'm trusting my team's

ceph

townreads

wgeurts was the odd name out in this reads list originally. In retrospect, I find it more likely nsg was TMIing a town read than trying to force a lurker teammate into her town block, especially if she herself wasn't being super active.

[Dannflor]

if someone hadn't QUICK HAMMERED dgfdgdrgdrhfhrtyhjcy

like my biggest fear is that FF is scum and just gonna get away with that

because that's actually a good play for scum him to pull

[Dannflor]

wgeurts is at an alarmingly high vote percentage for someone i dont remember as vividly as someone like gobble or ceph. Can someone explain the reasoning or is it all rvs votes?

Man maybe I'm conf biasing but this reads like scum asking why a townie has been wagoned. At the very least it's a busy-work question, why doesn't he just check

Dont want to come off like im parroting gooble but cephrir sucks man. Most of his posts are quick one liners that you cant say much to and he seems afraid to engage properly, especially 81 is awful. I'm fine with placing my vote there but i want to clear my mind on former first because this doesnt play like his towngame.

VOTE: cephrir

meh, doesn't engage with FF in between

that inconsistency might actually be towny

[Dannflor]

Town
KittyMo
Auro
Dann
Dunn
Cephrir
Hopkirk
Espeonage

Joan of Arc

DongEmpire

Formerfish

Wgeurts

NSG

Scum

Man if you assume my Dong/FF solve is correct...

These are like... inhumanly good reads. Does Gobble really have reads that good? Like it's not damning not least which because it feels super bad to go after someone for "having too of good reads," but this would be like... absolutely insane for a D1 reads list. It just makes it a little bit more likely I'm wrong on that exact solve or that Gobble is scum.

[Dannflor]

FF/Dong or FF/gobbles are the only teams I can really see with FF and I don't think Dong is scum.

Those are the only two pairings EC can see FF with too, so we're synced there

if you care

at all

[Dannflor]

Why's that? I don't remembering playing with any of your team (anytime recently if at all) so I'm assuming not meta?

eddie cane said you were town

I trust his reads a lot

Also, even though I disagreed with it, I thought your explanation for the scum read on kittymo was especially towny. I thought it showed a level of looking deeper when it's a lot easier to just give her a free town read for having pleasant posts.

yes I strongly town read him D1 and then changed my mind later when Ank and EC did and nsg flip happened

I'm SORRY

[Dannflor]

Actually VOTE: Hop L-1 but don't hammer please. FF's behaviour over time will be easier to gauge if we max out day lengths from this point.

Cheeky and FF why aren’t y’all voting

Didn't know what the vote count was and im lazy.

VOTE: Hoppy

The bit about needing to prove myself to you or youd vote me left a bad taste in my mouth bro. Eat some pineapple.

[Dannflor]

Lynch pool today is hop/gobbles and overall can go hop/gobbles/FF tomorrow.

[Dannflor]

that's a 10/10 post

[Dannflor]

you've played objectively worse than me read wise

and yet you think I'm scum for BoP reasons

god what the fuck are you even doing

[Dannflor]

yes fine Auro I'll stop

I'm looking at the BB parts now

[Dannflor]

I've just been told Cheeky is a good player and I feel like the good players here should be town reading me so I'm frustrated

like every good player that was night killed had me as town

Even Espeonage and Hopkirk weren't sure that I was scum. Esp wanted Hop before he died and Hopkirk was on the fence

[Dannflor]

1) lurkers are fucking poison to a mafia game

2) and if you think that's me being aggressive you haven't played with me enough

1) Agree but this lurker is a paragon. Again I won't lynch her for what may happen. She will be obvious scum tbh so I'm not concerned about a scum!nsg slipping through my fingers.

2) I was thinking the same thing when dann called me rude lol.

I guess if you had read a little bit more it wouldn't feel like you just latched onto the first explicitly scummy post you saw and then went 'Zomg obv scum.'

When I read through Dong's iso there are a lot of scummy posts, so much so that it seems too scummy to be scum. I think 'surely he would think before posting as scum.' So I'm not sure if he's a generally scummy player as town or if he's just scum here. I kind of need more from you on Dong so I know that your read is legit and you're not just surface level scum hunting as scum.

i like this post a lot I'll trust you on nsg

holy shit what the fuck

didn't BB call this post by cheeky out as scummy af later

[Dannflor]

What is post 881 Dann

Dann don't fucking ignore me, I want you to address that post of Cheeky's.

881

What is post 881 Dann

a bad post in favor of scum!Cheeky

not completely damning though

idk her self vote is really throwing me right now

do you see town!Cheeky making that post at all

[Dannflor]

It's just I made mistakes yeah

this isn't a great game from me

but that doesn't make me scum

I'm still very clearly town

[Dannflor]

sorry I'm not helping

I get it I think

I'll stop venting, sorry for being an ass

[Dannflor]

how many votes are on me right now

[Dannflor]

auro who are you more confident on out of bb/gobble

[Dannflor]

I'm sorry for insulting you Cheeky. I understand where you're coming from as town it's just very discouraging for me after an already discouraging game, but I shouldn't have lashed out. And I could have definitely done better around the Esp lynch specifically but I can't change the past.

I do wish you would have not ignored EC when he was trying to reach out to you earlier in the game though. I also feel like the way you've treated Auro this game is pretty unfair. For example even just refusing to note Pops' comments like Auro had requested earlier is just... anti-town. Leave the frustration with me not him please.

But yeah I did push two mislynches when there were worse slots that could have died. My bad.

I won't talk about this anymore don't worry

[Dannflor]

yeah that's fine

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Gobble

[Dannflor]

I'm getting the feeling I should have listened to you a long time ago

I personally feel more confident on Gobble though

and I think he has more possible teams than BB

[Dannflor]

this probably seals my lynch as Gobble will omgus me but that's fine

I've gone through the stages of grief and now I'm at acceptance

[Dannflor]

Yeah I'm done

[Dannflor]

D1 and D4 are my best days

[Dannflor]

but not a really good game overall sadly

[Dannflor]

I don't see any reason for your BB read Dann.

yeah isn't that scummy

[Dannflor]

If I go solely by my own reads and try to force a lynch I think I'm just gonna ML again

I can see what Auro sees now and I do agree Gobble > FF probably wins. Although, I imagine I'm replacing one of the lynches.

Sorry I'm not gonna make up complicated reasons for my shift Cheeky

[Dannflor]

I want everyone to just sheep Auro in LyLo

he gets the lynch he wants

whatever it is

[Dannflor]

I'm at L-1 btw

[Dannflor]

wait no L-2

[Dannflor]

Cheeky and FF are voting me

it takes 4 votes to lynch

[Dannflor]

Dong unvoted

[Dannflor]

all paths don't lead to me

I really hope I'm right that you're town

[Dannflor]

I think BB's shift from agreeing with Cheeky's hard defense of nsg and not wanting her lynched to voting her over FF when he was being flash wagoned is great scum equity individually

Looks like distancing to get whatever value he could get out of being surprise flash lynched

[Dannflor]

great scum equity individually

greater*

[Dannflor]

but I am in general not completely sold that BB's reaction to being flash wagoned comes from scum

[Dannflor]

I think I'm not scum reading FF anymore actually

[Dannflor]

Read FF's interactions with me from 78-80

I don't want to say they're completely out of his scum range but his emotion and progression there feels incredibly genuine

[Dannflor]

78-80 page numbers btw

[Dannflor]

FF can only be with gobble and dong anyway as far as our solves rnow look so lynching Gobble > FF doesn't make much sense

[Dannflor]

you are wrong cheeky

You are wrong.

Just like you were on NSG

and on Dunnstral

and on Hopkirk

you are wrong on me

I am town

[Dannflor]

No wtf

do not clear BB if I flip town

[Dannflor]

I am considering Gobble > BB or Gobble > Dong as my two preferred lynch orders

[Dannflor]

do not clear BB if I flip town

[Dannflor]

BB could be scum with Cheeky

[Dannflor]

I'm not going to comment on how likely it is

but BB is not cleared

and I'm only asking for Auro to be cleared in LyLo, not Cheeky or BB

[Dannflor]

Yeah what the fuck

FF can be town

if you're gonna clear anyone just clear him

sure

do not clear BB

[Dannflor]

I'm sad

[Dannflor]

VOTE: BB

mm I changed my mind

[Dannflor]

nvm VOTE: Gobble

I think I'm done Auro unless there's anything else specific you want from me

[Dannflor]

town: auro, FF

town but playing to scum win-con: cheeky

scummy in order of confidence: gobble, bb, dong

I can't find good enough reasons to town read any of the bottom 3

[Dannflor]

I kinda feel sad I'm being called a moron, and blamed for stuff like "justifying Dann read without real justification"..

I don't think you're a moron!

[Dannflor]

I'd like that

I'm continuing reading and I am actually feeling better about FF town just tonally

I think his content all in all is below par his town game, but that might be because he was absent due to IRL for large swaths

especially early game he's very pro-active in his engaging

[Dannflor]

If Dann flips, there's a non zero probability that I vote Cheeky btw
Just saying

like I said, just sheep it if it happens

Only Auro gets cleared

take the rest of my reads with a grain of salt

[Dannflor]

He has two very competent teammates in Reundo and Davesaz, I wish they were utilized more. I don't blame FF for it though, if they were absent and not helping.

and fwiw him being stubborn about talking to them is probably more likely to come from town!FF

[Dannflor]

You don't know EC but he says he would hydra with you Auro haha

[Dannflor]

EC also very much wants to kill Cheeky so like if that's what you wanna do in LyLo Cheeky then so be it. because while I still think town, I do not think she's been playing to the town win con for most of the game

[Dannflor]

to clarify, EC doesn't know if Cheeky is scum but he did lose his town read and wants to kill her out of spite

She is not his top scum read and he doesn't want that construed as something sheepable

[Dannflor]

Ali actually explains a lot of Cheeky's play

[Dannflor]

Pops I am surprised about though

And it's a little concerning because Pops' post was a big thing spewing Cheeky town but eh

[Dannflor]

EC says the towniest thing about Cheeky's play was the earlier Pops post and the least townie thing was her ignoring Auro and Dann's posts asking for more Pops

[Dannflor]

I’m here

What the fuck is with everyone suddenly scumreading me when literally NOTHING happened

uh not everyone haha

just Auro

and kinda me but not entirely

[Dannflor]

Am I scumread now from PoE or are you legit scum reading me off trusting Cheekys bad read on NSG

kinda neither

I'm with you on FF town now, there's that at least.

I can't accept the Auro/Dong team. Who else is scum with Dong fypov?

[Dannflor]

EC just said he's all in on Cheeky town

He can't imagine a world where Cheeky needs to lynch me today this badly as scum

it just doesn't make sense

(if she's scum she's getting a 10 if she's town she's getting a 1) <- his line not mine sorry heh

[Dannflor]

Am I scumread now from PoE or are you legit scum reading me off trusting Cheekys bad read on NSG

kinda neither

I'm with you on FF town now, there's that at least.

I can't accept the Auro/Dong team. Who else is scum with Dong fypov?

Gobbles or a Deepwolf

who is the deepwolf

[Dannflor]

okay fine

I agree too honestly, it doesn't make sense.

If I flip, don't kill Auro or Cheeky. I KNOW Y'ALL DON'T LIKE SHEEPING THE DEAD SINCE ALL THE DEAD PEOPLE TOWN READ ME, SO YOU BETTER WAKE UP AND DO IT THIS TIME

[Dannflor]

I still want Pops to post though, I want more reason in this game

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Gobble

just reaffirming both me and EC are leaning here rnow

[Dannflor]

BB gobble covers more teams than Dong and is like Dong's only viable partner

[Dannflor]

I think we can wait out for Ank's input too perhaps?

okay

her last input was "idfk on gobble anymore"

but she still generally thinks it is dong/ff

I'll ask when she wakes up

[Dannflor]

Pops can't read me and Ali is bad

Auro, EC suggests to stop engaging Cheeky

the more she posts the less likely town is to win

And she's clearly not changing her mind no matter what at this point

[Dannflor]

I would think Pops would have less confidence though but maybe she's still mad about AvP

[Dannflor]

If I die I'm pretty sure Auro gets NKed

not sure why Cheeky isn't assuming that

It's gonna be another Dunn situation where she's like "weird NK" and then doesn't lynch Gobble

[Dannflor]

BBmolla I want to talk to you more if you're still around

[Dannflor]

Okay sorry Ali is not bad but e is wrong in this instance

[Dannflor]

Ali is known for not being...

diplomatically correct

[Dannflor]

Yeah I'm here just in a bad mood. Roommate just told me he doesn't like my PDA around my girlfriend in my own home.

What's up

I like think you're kinda town but also think you make most sense as a Gobble partner

so I'm just trying to figure out how to sort you / feel more confident on you one way or another

you still really think it's Auro/Dong?

[Dannflor]

@mod, V/LA from 2/14-2/17

I will try to check in but this will be a much lower priority for me during this time.

[Dannflor]

I'll still be around tonight tho so hmu

[Dannflor]

I REALLY think it's Auro/Dong atm

If you're 100% sure, lynch, and let me dictate the lynch tomorrow.

Wait a second. Has dong not been hammered? I'm very confused right now.

So like it's a dumb tell... still fakeable... but...

It's also just kinda ballsy to go for as scum (which I guess is not out of the question but...)

FF just seems so out of it throughout the fake hammer, and I would think scum would keep better tabs on what was going on

maybe weak reasoning but I think high!FF is townier than a lucid!FF in this situation

[Dannflor]

OK, I can see how you think that

If you had an opportunity to hammer but didn't then you're probably town - that's not something I would have been paying attention to

Also Auro had the opportunity to hammer FF or NSG so he should be lockdown too.

annoying

[Dannflor]

just reached Esp's "pure mechanical solve"

It's still funny

[Dannflor]

Can we please lynch someone? Fucking anyone as long as it gets us closer to ending this game.

there's a distinct carelessness in his ISO that just doesn't come from scum a lot of the time

Some of it can be attributed to FF's playstyle, but I think even scum!him is a little more calculated

[Dannflor]

Well tell us how to make this game interesting for you FF

My Ode to Espy:

You don't know how much I scumread you
When you vote me I don't feel blue
And when we lynch scum I know you need me too
I can't believe I've found scum, come vote and see its true

But it all was bullshit
It was a goddamn joke
And when I think of you, Espy
I hope you slip into a rope and choke

I hope you're glad with what you've done to me
I lurk in the thread all day long feeling melancholy
You left me here bored and alone, hammers incoming constantly

Oh, somebody kill me please
Somebody kill me please
I'm on my knees, pretty pretty please
Kill me
I want to die
Put a bullet in my hea-a-a-a-ad

lock town

[Dannflor]

there is a deep perverted part of me that hopes you are somehow scum and win the game

[Dannflor]

but yeah I think if I'm lynched you get NKed

then it's: Cheeky, FF, Gobble, BB, Dong

no one sheeps our reads because fuck NKA amirite

then someone like FF gets mislynched and scum win

[Dannflor]

god the Dunn NK should just be clearing for me

If you assume Dong is town then his top 3 kills were town

and he also had me as his top town

why the fuck do I ever kill him, so I can just make this argument right now? Yeah great plan

[Dannflor]

there is a deep perverted part of me that hopes you are somehow scum and win the game

If I'm scum I wouldn't have set things up to this position though
Even my posting style is a lot... smoother as scum I believe. I feel like when I'm actually trying to gamesolve I come off as scummy for some reason; when I'm scum I can simply focus on looking good.

I know

there is a 0% chance you're scum here

I really believe that

[Dannflor]

I'm mostly saying 0% because there's a good chance I'm lynched and I don't want someone saying "DANN HAD SOME PARANOIA SO HE WAS WRONG ON AURO"

[Dannflor]

I've been pretty clear that Dann > gobbles is the optimal lynch path to end the game and Auro even agreed so I dont know why you guys are running around like headless crooks deviating yet again from Dann actually having some solid input today. Stop using me as a distraction Dann and do some work on BB.

I think I can only do work on BB if he is here

what do you think about the FF stuff

[Dannflor]

Are you a college student, Dann?

Yeah, why?

[Dannflor]

Gobbles > Dong is always better than

Gobbles > FF

[Dannflor]

FF can only be partners with Dong or Gobble

and Dong is scummier than FF

[Dannflor]

I need to stop replying to Cheeky

[Dannflor]

@Auro, Ank said she just woke up and has to go to work. So it'll probably be a while for anything from her

[Dannflor]

Auro is an IC

[Dannflor]

dear god cheeky

[Dannflor]

Ok, Auro. I think I have read enough of Cheeky's scum games. The most recent completed scum game she has is Micromence Vengeful where Cheeky's team turbolynched me Day 1. I did not feel much emotion in her posting in that game other than an off hand comment of "make sense or die" to pisskop (one of her buddies).

Other than that game, Cheeky has not recently been scum. At least, that I found. There may be alt or hydra games that I have missed.

Overkill 2 is probably the closest I could find to a game that matches her playstyle this game. However, I don't think anything in that game reaches the level of emotion that I am seeing here. Post 2048 comes close to the type of attitude we see in this game, but the sheer volume of emotional posting from Cheeky in this game distinguishes her play here from her play in Overkill 2.

Gunner Mafia might be a good game to look at too. I do not think she's reached the same level of emotion, but she does have more "emotional" posts with using caps locks and repetition. Looking through all of these games, I feel like Cheeky as scum doesn't get upset because she knows the townies are just doing their jobs.

Everything is Completely Normal is the next closest game I could find, emotionally. Cheeky is slightly aggressive to Nero Cain in this game, but again, not to the level we have seen in this game. Cheeky was lynched Day 1 in this game too, so I would think that she would be particularly emotional. It does not appear so, even as you look at the end of her iso.

Then we have Pop Goes the Guns and Mini Normal 2002, but I do not think she is emotional at all in those games.

Finding these games (Cheeky you're like never scum) and reading them took a lot longer than I would like to admit. Plus, I kept getting distracted by shiny things.

At any rate, I am about to have another completed game to add to my collection for you to look through, Auro. I'll let you know once it is official.

These are some of my town games that I think are pretty exemplary of how bad my play can be. Black Versus Whiteis probably the worst, followed by Menalque's Favorite Places. That said, I think Added to the Group Chat and Zen show similar frustrations with the game/players that I had on Day 1 in this game. Finally, the Search I think is a good example of how I wall flower from time to time when I have little grasp on the game.

This meta dive I did on Cheeky only reinforced that I probably do not want to lynch her this game. If she is scum, she is playing really well and honestly deserves the win. Also, it is really annoying that sometimes direct links to a person's iso does not work. I feel technologically illiterate when sometimes I can make the link work, but then other times I cannot figure out why the link is not working.

Maybe I'm conf-biasing with this but it seems pretty obvious from my perspective that this post was designed to pocket Cheeky since she started death-tunneling me/you

[Dannflor]

Like, if he's going to do that, why doesn't he put the same effort into... literally any other slot in the game?

There was a clear reason he decided to put that much effort into Cheeky

[Dannflor]

okay ank has some input now actually I'll paraphrase in a sec

[Dannflor]

A message from Ankamius!

Idk man, Cheeky just needs to like leave the thread for a day or something. This endless talking for pages and pages on end with just three slots is just making things worse. I've skimmed and my solve still hasn't changed. But this paranoia tripping is going to lose town the game singlehandedly. Idk what two lynches work without making the entire game implode, but I'm almost considering lynching Cheeky to be the best option solely for that reason. Also like, not even considering lynching Dong is wild.

viewtopic.php?p=11580207#p11580207

Read this post and tell me this is ever town.

This is paranoia fuel at its finest. It's also very reasonable to post something posturey that looks town like this if he knows that the hammer is fake. And guess who else was posting at the time... Idk man the game is just fucked up. If the team is lefit FF/Dong then Cheeky game threw and I'm disappointed in Auro for dismantling the game winning lynch. I will say one thing though, anybody who legitimately thinks it can be Auro/Dann is playing like shit.

Auro LITERALLY DISMANTLED the Dong wagon when otherwise there was so much pressure on our two slots that it would be inevitable we'd be rewagoned. We've gotten in each other's way in saving ourselves if we're the scum team.

I think it's mainly Cheeky pushing it at this point so she needs to get her head out of her ass.

Lynching Auro is actually fucking stupid.

[Dannflor]

and that's all she's got

[Dannflor]

you're not helping Cheeky

[Dannflor]

Yeah she doesn’t blame you for that

Auro Dann solve just doesn’t work and no one could have foreseen reason would go out the window so completely

[Dannflor]

And I’m with you on Gob, I’m just obligated to translate her reads too

[Dannflor]

Ank chiming in:

Letting the day extend has done nothing but muddy the waters. When you have THIS MUCH paranoia flying around, scum pools are only ever going to get larger. It's possible the team isn't just FF/Dong but I really don't think the game is anywhere near as complicated as people are claiming it is.

[Dannflor]

Auro -> Dann duh

[Dannflor]

[gobble, dong]

or

[gobble, bb]

I think the latter is more likely as a team overall but Dong is scummier individually imo

[Dannflor]

also I have to sleep now but I'll be around to hopefully do some more in the morning before my flight

I think at this point the game goes nowhere until [bb, gobble, dong, ff] start playing though

[Dannflor]

Dong/FF could be counting on the Auro > Gobble trajectory or the Dann > Gobble trajectory, if it is indeed Dong/FF.

But meh

[Dannflor]

Dong/FF could be counting on the Auro > Gobble trajectory or the Dann > Gobble trajectory, if it is indeed Dong/FF.

How?
Molla's always going for Dong over Gobble, that much is clear. For them to believe that Molla will suddenly change his mind in LyLo and go for Gobble is kinda stupid.

In LyLo they literally only need Cheeky, and it looks like Cheeky is deep in their pockets if they're scum.

[Dannflor]

Spoiler: A message from Eddie Cane!

I'm going to start reading some isos. I have a couple of hours.

Before I start, my current thought process is that Dann/Gobble is the scumteam, but we never lynch Dann there, and if Gobbles flips town we never lynch Dann.

Dong and Auro are town.

Alright I give up on this game. You can skip the rest of this post if you don't want to hear me whine.

I like Cheeky out of game so I'm going to stop insulting. I actually don't really care anymore. All that's going to happen is Cheeky is going to say we played bad post game and deserved to get lynched. Haah.

Stop blaming us for the Hop lynch when we were sorting him and he got quick-lynched by Cheeky and FF. What the fuck is that.

Final thoughts: I hope Auro's alignment wins the game. Unfortunately, he's town so that won't happen.

I'm so so glad I reread this game twice to make team solves for Cheeky to call them terrible, ignore me, and lynch me.

You know games where you lynch the obvious cop over a shitty scum counterclaim? This isn't like that. This is like the games where you lynch the obvious cop because a VT counterclaims because ConFiDEnCe XD

I'm actually still just like stunned Dann is being lynched. Like I cannot believe it. This feels like a really funny dream. He's actually played fairly well and I feel bad for him because he's gonna blame himself for this mislynch.

The remaining solves I personally have removing Cheeky and Auro are:

Molla Gobble
FF Gobble
Dong Gobble
Dong FF

Maybe I'm missing one or two or am wrong on Cheeky, but who cares. Dann is getting lynched the dead reads of "Dann's my top town - Dunn and "Dann can win if he's scum lol" - Ceph (The two night kills that WOULD HAVE BEEN CHEEKY if we were scum BUT WIFOM XD) "lynch gobbles if he's town never lynch dann" - the dude Cheeky and FF quickhammered and finally, "vote Hop I prefer this," - espeonage, The only non town read here and even she laughed at thinking Dann was scum in her Hop vote.

BUT MUH WIFOM XD

"But wait Eddie Cane, didn't Dann also unvote BBmolla first, at a wagon of 5, and vote NSG 4th instead when he could have voted FF?" - WIFOM (Cheeky)
"But wait Eddie Cane, didn't Dann kill Dunn, who had a kill pool of 3 town in Cheeky's world (dong!town), and Dannflor as his top town?" - WIFOM (Cheeky)

I am just assuming the argument is WIFOM, because AURO has town cased us extensively and the response was DANN SCUM OPEN YOUR EYES SHEEPLE.

Again, to be clear, I like Cheeky out of game and these are purely insults related to this specific game and nothing else.

Good luck all.

PS: Dong's recent post is so terrible what the fuck. It feels weird to think it's all town pushing us, which a Gobbles/BB team would be, but whatever.

[Dannflor]

I have to catch a flight.

Good luck in LyLo all.

Sorry I couldn't give you more before I left Auro.

[Dannflor]

Oh hm I see
I still think that can be resolved partly in LyLo, let's see

Pedit: Who will they NK then? You think they'll NK whoever in us isn't lynched?

Yeah that's kinda what I've been saying

[Dannflor]

I might be able to check in to use my vote or answer basic questions but other than that I'm pretty much gone until Monday.

[Dannflor]

I think he wants to die in the metaphorical sense

As do i

[Dannflor]

Cheeky, when I flip town, who will you go after next?

lol

[Dannflor]

Meanwhile Dann is on holiday in Hawaii with his Waifu.

it was indiana and 3 degrees

I am home and reading up

[Dannflor]

Not interested in killing Dong

wooo Dann/Dong theories

[Dannflor]

condensed thoughts after those 10 pages:

I liked dong's response to Gobbles and don't really think his scum flip or specifically the team of Dong/FF is likely.

Gobble has maintained and strengthened as my current strongest scum read.

BB has been scummier than I remembered but I have a hard time reconciling his inconsistency and confusion with his very own reads with a scum mindset.

FF's pop ins were awful and my reasons for town binning him feel weak in the face of that.

Auro and Cheeky still town.

I would like to lynch two in [gobbles, ff, bb], but I'm not sure two of those lynches happen without one of me/auro getting taken out. Given that, I'm Gobble is the highest chance to win/best lynch. I might be able to be persuaded to FF or BB if enough people can town case Gobble, but imo he is far scummier than those two slots and he has the confidence of my top town read behind his lynch as well. Cheeky's observation about the player trajectories after Gobbles got in danger of being lynched is a good point as well.

VOTE: Gobble

no this is not a fucking hammer I'm restating my vote

on that topic I have a really hard time thinking anyone was fooled by that fake hammer after we've literally just had one not too long ago

BB/Gobble and FF/Gobble are both viable solves

I lean towards FF/Gobble but can't tell if that's just :GROUPTHINK: or not at this juncture

I'll come back after I've slept.

ank and EC said they both said in the discord that they revoke their disappointment in CheekyTeeky while i was gone

[Dannflor]

but what about...?

[Dannflor]

gg

this player list was very enjoyable

[Dannflor]

I think my stance was abundantly clear this game

[Dannflor]

I apologize Cheeky for not being the most empathetic throughout

that last day was pretty insane