Open 771: Pollock's Flag [endgame!]

[Pink Ball]

Right now I'm down to vote for Pink Ball or TSH.

Pink Ball's early game posting style, while annoying to read, is probably NAI. However, I didn't love their clidd vote and liked their unvote even less.

TSH I was null on until like pg 12 when they got super defensive over Amrun's vote. The whole 'not liking posts' vs 'scummy posts' is dumb too, since not liking someone's post sort of implies that you're leaning scum there, which is a good reason to vote someone IMO and he's using it as an excuse not to vote anyone.

VOTE: TSH

Hey look, I found town while rereading

[Pink Ball]

Ok let's see

Amrun, AaronFrost, rooroo, CSF, Hectic, woodchuck all town from most to least.
Uncrowned null.
Blatant Scum, Sky and clidd scumreads from least to most scum.

Amrun was TSH's reaction vote, that wasn't faked by them. Amrun is townspewed by TSH
AaronFrost stated he wanted to vote me or TSH but decided to vote flipped gray flag in a moment that a wagon on me would've gotten traction. Unless you think I'm the white flag and Aaron is the black flag, this move makes no sense for scum!Aaron.
rooroo spewed town via counterwagon UNLESS she's the black flag which could be but I don't think so.
CSF and Hectic both pushed TSH early in the game and there's where TSH started to show off their true colors, so it wasn't planned.
woodchuck 'cause even if I still think clidd is white flag, rb doesn't make sense as black flag. Also I don't really care about this slot 'cause untasteful shit.

Uncrowned while I like his stances, wagonomics says the opposite.

Blatant makes sense as black flag.
Sky because Creature tried to derail TSH wagon by voting lynchbait!Blatant.
clidd because TSH called him IC for no fucking reason and got defensive when Hectic asked him why it was an IC, and said some stupid bullshit like "he townslipped" LOL

So clidd is the white flag, and one of Blatant/Sky is the black flag.

If you guys still don't want to lynch clidd 'cause you're not convinced, lynch bot Blatant and Sky in a row, and if I'm wrong lynch me then. Then you go to lylo with some obvtown players that will surely win it since we already have at least 4 players who are all spewed town thanks to TSH (Amrun, Aaron, CSF, Hectic since rooroo could be black flag and woodchuck whatever. At least one of the 4 goes to LyLo and that's good odds)

[Pink Ball]

Oh, forgot to move rooroo after CSF and Hectic in the townreads, sorry

[AaronFrost]

First, I don't bus.

Second, I was attempting to get low content slots into the game. It was an early phase and neither Rooroo or Creature had given content with substance. I'd rather not let slots sit by idly and just go for a lynch on what appeared to be obvscum when we can still get valuable information.

Did it work this time? Not really tbh. But if given the option I'd try it again.

I get wanting to get low content slots involved, but you were parked on Creature for a long time. At some point I'd think to myself, clearly my vote on him isn't doing much to produce content from him, I should go somewhere else. Instead you parked on him then switched to him at a time when a TSH lynch felt inevitable.

[woodchuck321]

First, I don't bus.

Oh that clears it up, he doesn't bus ergo he must be town /s

So clidd is the white flag, and one of Blatant/Sky is the black flag.

Sky has been pushing Clidd all today. Makes more sense if Sky was white and Clidd was black.

[Skygazer]

Sky has been pushing Clidd all today

for the record i still think clidd is town (like what kind of scum calls their partner an IC out of no where? thats like very much not something most scum casually say about a partner)

am just trying to see *why* theyre scumreading me or if theyre just gonna be as vague as possible about it bc id like to townspew/address concerns/etc

[Uncrowned]

@Aaron

If I was concerned about the timing of my switch looking suspicious, I wouldn't have done it at all. I'm a very self aware player.

@woodchuck

Yes! Exactly. Thank you for understanding.

[Pink Ball]

First, I don't bus.

Oh that clears it up, he doesn't bus ergo he must be town /s

So clidd is the white flag, and one of Blatant/Sky is the black flag.

Sky has been pushing Clidd all today. Makes more sense if Sky was white and Clidd was black.

No, flags doesn't matter anymore

[Pink Ball]

Like what kind of scum calls their partner an IC out of no where? thats like very much not something most scum casually say about a partner

TSE

[Skygazer]

what makes you think TSE is the kind of person to talk about a scum-partner that way so haphazardly and w/o explanation?

In newbie 1982 they threw like so much shade at volxen, their scum-partner. In 1980 they had their partner as null and bussed them anyways. In 1979 they also bussed their partner. I think that they'd tend more towards bussing impulsively just to establish distancing. And even if they're not actively bussing here, I *highly* doubt that someone who's trying to be so hyper-aware of how their interactions look that they wind up constantly bussing would go as far as to call one of their partners an "IC."

so i think clidd is clear here even tho his read on me is unexplained and wrong.

[Pink Ball]

You don't try to predict how a rabid dog will behave by looking at its past actions.

[the worst]

vote count 2.03

Blatant Scum (1) - Amrun

not voting: AaronFrost, Uncrowned, woodchuck321, BlatantScum, Hectic, Skygazer, Rooroo, clidd, Pink Ball, Cat Scratch Fever

This phase ends in (expired on 2020-02-27 08:15:00)

mod notes: quack.

[Hectic]

Ok let's see

Amrun, AaronFrost, rooroo, CSF, Hectic, woodchuck all town from most to least.
Uncrowned null.
Blatant Scum, Sky and clidd scumreads from least to most scum.

Amrun was TSH's reaction vote, that wasn't faked by them. Amrun is townspewed by TSH
AaronFrost stated he wanted to vote me or TSH but decided to vote flipped gray flag in a moment that a wagon on me would've gotten traction. Unless you think I'm the white flag and Aaron is the black flag, this move makes no sense for scum!Aaron.
rooroo spewed town via counterwagon UNLESS she's the black flag which could be but I don't think so.
CSF and Hectic both pushed TSH early in the game and there's where TSH started to show off their true colors, so it wasn't planned.
woodchuck 'cause even if I still think clidd is white flag, rb doesn't make sense as black flag. Also I don't really care about this slot 'cause untasteful shit.

Uncrowned while I like his stances, wagonomics says the opposite.

Blatant makes sense as black flag.
Sky because Creature tried to derail TSH wagon by voting lynchbait!Blatant.
clidd because TSH called him IC for no fucking reason and got defensive when Hectic asked him why it was an IC, and said some stupid bullshit like "he townslipped" LOL

So clidd is the white flag, and one of Blatant/Sky is the black flag.

If you guys still don't want to lynch clidd 'cause you're not convinced, lynch bot Blatant and Sky in a row, and if I'm wrong lynch me then. Then you go to lylo with some obvtown players that will surely win it since we already have at least 4 players who are all spewed town thanks to TSH (Amrun, Aaron, CSF, Hectic since rooroo could be black flag and woodchuck whatever. At least one of the 4 goes to LyLo and that's good odds)

I agree with pretty much all this stuff without actually looking back myself.
From memory:
-rooroo hinted at TSH possibly being Black Flag long before I had my suspicions, need to look at who was actually behind the rooroo counterwagon

Why can't clidd have also been townspewed? That debacle with clidd may look pretty NAIish to us, but maybe in TSE's mind that made it look obvious that clidd was town (because he knows he's town).

(Flag of the Byazantine Empire)

[Skygazer]

You don't try to predict how a rabid dog will behave by looking at its past actions.

??? that's literally a thing that happens like all the time in mafia though ??? like successfully ??? it's called meta ??? it's a thing people use to find alignment-indicative and associative-indicative patterns in a player's behavior ???


?????

[Uncrowned]

Sort of not game related, but is meta REALLY that effective?

I get it maybe if you're super close with a person and can find tendencies that lean to them being an alignment, but I feel looking at "player meta" for me just leads to biases and me seeing what I want to see.

Just my 2 cents though i'm no expert lmao

[Uncrowned]

VOTE: Blatant Scum

Zero content all day, literally never commented on TSH even one single time, and was off wagon. Really think this slot is much higher than rand scum.



Clidd is my pick for on wagon scum but I think off wagon is safer way to go.

Sheeping this.

VOTE: Blatant Scum

[Pink Ball]

You don't try to predict how a rabid dog will behave by looking at its past actions.

??? that's literally a thing that happens like all the time in mafia though ??? like successfully ??? it's called meta ??? it's a thing people use to find alignment-indicative and associative-indicative patterns in a player's behavior ???


?????

???????????????

That's my point ??? I think meta doesn't work on someone like TSE ??? 'Cause he's so fucking random ??? That he has no patterns and that it's better to predict his actions by trying to understand his personality ???

??????????

Change your tone towards me, Sky. Now being serious, did you play those games with TSE, have you played any game with him? 'Cause I think you would get my point better if you lived the TSE experience before

[Skygazer]

Sort of not game related, but is meta REALLY that effective?

I get it maybe if you're super close with a person and can find tendencies that lean to them being an alignment, but I feel looking at "player meta" for me just leads to biases and me seeing what I want to see.

Just my 2 cents though i'm no expert lmao

it can be effective in finding patterns especially if ur approaching it from a standpoint of "ok how does this person approach interacting w their partners" and etc etc

and like a lot of time it can lead to conf-bias but like
1) in terms of site-wide meta, *most* players, especially newer scum, are too self-aware to openly call their partner an IC, especially with little info. strong townreads on weak reasoning are usually a result of tmi because they know the player is town so theyre quick to write them off as town
2) in all three TSE scum games ive looked at, he didnt townread any of his partners and super willing to bus them, which points towards him finding the need to distance from his partners as much as possible

[Skygazer]

???????????????

That's my point ??? I think meta doesn't work on someone like TSE ??? 'Cause he's so fucking random ??? That he has no patterns and that it's better to predict his actions by trying to understand his personality ???

??????????

Change your tone towards me, Sky. Now being serious, did you play those games with TSE, have you played any game with him? 'Cause I think you would get my point better if you lived the TSE experience before

but i *literally* noticed a pattern in how he's approached his scum partners in the past! even if i haven't played w TSE before, i've played with "chaotic" players, and just because their play can feel chaotic at points doesnt mean there aren't observable patterns in the madness

[Pink Ball]

Chaotic is too sweet for TSE, but I get your point and it's valid of course. I'm too scarred from playing with this dude, that's all. And the timing when TSE called clidd an IC was off; I'd expect 'newbscum' to call an IC someone who actually looks pretty damn townie, not a player who has not contributed at all at that point.

Also just a reminder that this is not the only argument that points toward scum!clidd, is one of many more already made.

Let's say I'm wrong because hey, why not. I said that the plan should be lynching you and Blatant and then me if I'm wrong on both of you. Beside the "fuck no Im town I don't like your plan at all", what do you think of my townreads?

[Uncrowned]

What does IC mean in this context?

[Pink Ball]

Like, why calling an IC someone you can drag to a future mislynch. Why not calling an IC your pretended nightkill or someone you're planning to pocket. Do you think TSE was trying to pocket NoContributionOrThreadPresenceWhatsoeverAtThatPoint!clidd?

[Pink Ball]

What does IC mean in this context?

Innocent child, a confirmed town role

[Skygazer]

i pulled an allnighter so ill get back to you after i clock out and get a nap in

[Pink Ball]

Sleep well my sweet Sky