Open 87 - Baby Too Much Scum - Over before 641

[Oman]

What's your favorite color? Definatly not
What's your favorite food? Green
Have you ever taken Mr. Cleaver by surprise? Steak

There.

Vote alvinz95

For containing a zed and a two didget number in your name.

[Oman]

Unvote, Vote armlx

I'm all for putting pressure on people lurking/avoiding this thread to get this game going.

Unvote Vote Goatrevolt

I find this to be an annecdotal scumtell, and will follow it as such.

(P.s. Sorry I took the weekend off)

[Oman]

One that I don't have statistical data on but in my experience scum do more than town.

[Oman]

Well: Town tend to just vote it and then say "yes, I'm bandwagoning" when questioned or something like that.

Scum tend to overexplain themselves, for fear of getting pressured.

[Oman]

Show you a proper townie vote?

[Oman]

Unvote Vote Goat Revolt

[Oman]

Thats how I've seen townies are want to vote.

[Oman]

I see.

So you've essentially just done what I said a townie would do.

So you're trying to look like a townie now?

[Oman]

our vote on me contained your reasoning within the post

If my vote contained my reasoning, why did you have to ask me questions about it?

[Oman]

I believe Oman's point was that you provided reasoning on a seemingly random vote. You're trying to make the suspicion smaller than it is.

Is this directed at me?

I provided reasoning for my legitimate vote on armlx. Can you explain how that's scummy?

The scummiest thing is your heavy reaction to it. Being quite aggressive back "by any stretch of the imagination" etc.

[Oman]

I voted GR because he engaged in what I have annecdotally seen to be a scumtel..

If someone engages in something I have seen as previously scum, then I will do it, regardless of whther or not it makes me look scummy.


<May I amslso notthat Goat is CONTINUEING to be extremely agressiv.e

[Oman]

Oman, do you think being extremely aggressive is a scumtell?

Agressive has two meanings. In this context (i.e. if you mean "Reacitvely angry") then certainly yes. Scum picked for an early wagon yell and scream and headdesk for their mistakes to be caught so early.

Scumanoia.

[Oman]

What do you mean by aggressive?

And my vote is entirely justifiable by my seeing that scum are more likely to be reactive and angry when cornered than town.

Have oyu had a different experience to me?

[Oman]

I should have more within a week or two.

[Oman]

Does anyone actually have a good vote outside me and goat?

[Oman]

Umm, no it isn't. What purpose would Oman have for accusing someone based on completely idiotic grounds, like "putting reason with a vote." He must have had some reason, or phrased that poorly, or whatever.

What if he just made up some reason that sounded good and had to argue his way out of a hole?

Sounds like a really stupid thing to do as scum this early in a game. and NO, WIFOM does not fit here because its not a 50% swing.

[Oman]

Crazy: is netran mafia or SK?

[Oman]

Theres nothing to defend against, really. I saw something that I see scum do more than town, I explained what that is, people disagree with me. End of Story.

I don't require your approval to have what I see to be a scumtell and act on it.

[Oman]

EBWOP: I don't mind if you don't trust me, its mafia after all, but I'm looking at people other than Goat (Hence "anyone got a suspect outside me and goat") and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on.

[Oman]

Okay.

Here is the best I can do.

Throughout my time playing this game I see that scum are more worried and paranoid in early game play than town is, they also become more complacent as the game progresses, thinking they have "prooved" their townieness.

At the start of a game, and early bandwagon can freak a scum out, because they feel they have not done anything to validate the rightful assult.

Scum tend to go obverse to this by trying to seem overly townie early D1.

Put these three together and you see that scum definatly don't want to be caught out D1 for putting down a meaningless vote, even though townies do it to (its a paranoia inherent in the role), for this reason scum tend to overexplain themselves when placing a vote in random, or just outside random, stages.

Thus, I found Goat's vote scummy. Then he gets rather aggressive about it, which again shows a scum who is furious a plan didn't work (i.e. "explain my vote and they won't think I'm randomly bandwagoning").

Yes, it does require a decent ammount of hypocrisy for me to call Goat on this, but that is inherent in the game (e.g. "Ahhh he's throwing suspicion onto others, he's scum" "but wait, you just through suspicion onto him....")

[Oman]

Do you have numbers to back this? Any why is this argument not just an extension of "Too Townie"

Its got nothing to do with Too Townie, you misunderstand. No Id on't have numbers. Its annecdotal not statistical.

[Oman]

So basically, you want us to accept this tell because you said so with no evidence? Can you show us times where it has been used, etc etc?

I'm not telling you to accept it, I'm saying that thats cool if you don't believe me. But its what I've seen, and I've said so since the start.

And no, i'm not going to pour through old games to look for examples, because I don't do that. I've never done that.

[Oman]

But you're not acting town. You're acting as if you're acting town!

[Oman]

No, no, you misunderstand.

He's not acting as town does. He's acting as scum does when trying to seem town. You must agree there is a difference.

[Oman]

Goatrevolt: Oman's logic for thinking me scum is wrong.
Crazy: But if that was Oman's real logic then it would make him look like

scum

a complete idiot that doesn't know how to play mafia

. Therefore it can't be his real logic.
Goatrevolt: Um...
Crazy: Come on Oman, tell them what your real reasons were.

Fixed for you.

Lol? Wow, way to go for insults over intellect.
'

Anyway, I can finally do what I've wanted to do for a while and that is

Unvote

with a reason: basically, his play isn't anything like Cog City, where we were mafia together.

[Oman]

STop it, we're tangenting.

[Oman]

Question: Armlx, how do you feel on OGML and myself.

[Oman]

Question: Armlx, how do you feel on OGML and myself.

Well I'm voting you, and OMGL is bordering on lurking.

Didn't answer my question as to how you feel. Do you think I'm scum, scummy, worth pressuring, what? A vote is a lot of things.

[Oman]

Armlx's aggression towards Oman worries me. I don't even see how Oman's case was even related to the "Too Townie" argument. It was about finding people who are trying too hard to look town, not people who do look town.

Oman's logic that reasoning = scummy is definitely a "Too Townie" argument, as reasoning is generally a pro-town thing.

Not, that was my point, reasoning ISN'T a pro-town thing in that time. Mid-day, sure! But not in random.

[Oman]

How can you say it was "definitely past random" when two people in fact made a random vote after GR's vote?

The end of random is as soon as anyone makes a vote with logical reasoning. By definition GR's was past random.

Notice the logical BTW. This discounts the dumb counter-random votes that sometimes occur.

Actually GR kicked off "past random" then and when you really look at it, no vote can define itself simply by its own existance. Circular logic BTW.

[Oman]

Actually GR kicked off "past random" then and when you really look at it, no vote can define itself simply by its own existance. Circular logic BTW.

Why not? Clearly the random phase of the game was over as something was done in it to prompt action that was non-random.

But you can't use his vote to justify his vote.

[Oman]

But you can't use his vote to justify his vote.

He justified his vote with logic. I'm showing you how you can't just say "It was too early for logic".

But you're saying it wasn't too early to use logic because he used logic. See the circle?

[Oman]

I think Oman is correct regarding the circular argument bit, but I also think that this discussion is missing the point.

Oman, do you think that the first person to place a non-random vote is scummy if they provide reasoning for it, and not scummy if they don't provide reasoning? Isn't that almost contradictory, because if they don't provide reasoning, then how would we know it's a real vote and not just another random vote. Rage and Netran were both random voting additional players. If I voted armlx without reasoning, it would be assumed to be another random vote. If I vote armlx with reasoning, it becomes clear that it's a real vote.

Hmm interesting point.

I might have to conceed I was wrong there....

[Oman]

Ah I'm posting after the prod. Basically I haven't seen anything worth commenting on...except armlx is now anti-OGML, which kinda sucks.

[Oman]

armlx is now anti-OGML, which kinda sucks.

Why does that suck?

Cause it means that a bandwagon forms, which means I need to form an opinion on it.

[Oman]

armlx is now anti-OGML, which kinda sucks.

Why does that suck?

Cause it means that a bandwagon forms, which means I need to form an opinion on it.

Why do you think armlx was responsible for the OGML wagon forming?

Its a number of votes thing...

[Oman]

I'm against having to reread. And I never said I was blaming you.

[Oman]

How do I say you're responsible?

[Oman]

Did you vote him?

[Oman]

I said: "Its a number of

votes

thing..." meaning that if you'd voted, as you implied that you would, then you would be responsible for forcing my reread.

If someone else did, then they would be responsible.

[Oman]

Implications are not my fault, they are client side.

[Oman]

but I'd think Oman would be more excited about this game than most of us.

?? why me specifically. I'm actually approaching this game with caution because of the way it went down last time.

I am more focused on Oman. Not for any specific reason but because his arguments generally seem scummy throughout the day.

I'm going to

Sounds a lot like gut in a tuxedo to me

Can I also make the note that while the mafia is trying to remove the SK, they don't really care when. They have a large voting block, but the SK can take them out in a day or two, so their trade off is one of mutual caution.

[Oman]

Oh no, I'm not against gut, I think gut is very important, but don't make it seem like its something else.

[Oman]

I get what Oman was saying by the "number of votes" thing. I didn't originally, but it obviously didn't show that armlx was responsible. What I find suspicious is Iamausername beating this dead case with a stick, after it was pretty much proven what Oman meant in that post.

FoS Iamausername

What the hell? Where was it "pretty much proven" what Oman meant? Because I still have no idea what "it's a number of votes thing" is supposed to mean, or how the fuck Oman saying "armlx is now anti-OGML, which sucks, because it means a wagon forms" can possibly not be sayng that armlx caused the wagon to form.

Shhh less rage.