Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)


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Post Post #650 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:25 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

Yes. Thank you. Spyrex gets it. Have a cookie.
WHEN THE REVOLUTION COMES, VOTECOUNTS WILL HAVE A VOTE OF THEIR OWN

killa seven - 3 (TheSweatpantsNinja, Firestarter, Knight of Cydonia)
FaerieLord - 3 (Manito, Corinthian, SpyreX)
armlx - 1 (LaptopGun)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
Firestarter - 1 (armlx)
Corinthian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)

Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, BlckKnght, CF Riot

15, 8.

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Post Post #651 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:29 am

Post by armlx »

This statement at first really bothers me, but I think I understand what he's saying "You're voting for lurker X, I'm voting for luker Y. If you vote for X and he's scum, I'd be willing to listen to lurker Y being scum (as, I feel, between the two lurkers X has shown more scummy behavior).
While you make a point about the lurker thing being contradictory, that kind of bargaining in larger games actually helps sometimes.
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Post Post #652 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:33 am

Post by SpyreX »

I could see at some point the bargaining being useful - Hell, I could see situations where I would do it. :P

I just dont see either lurker as a real lynch for today.
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Post Post #653 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:33 am

Post by armlx »

I just dont see either lurker as a real lynch for today.
I concur.
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Post Post #654 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:34 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

Indeed. Now, right now, I'd rather lynch K7 than your current #1, FaerieLord. I still have a great deal of suspicion surrounding FaerieLord, mainly concerning the way she has completely ignored the complete turn-around I highlighted, but right now I would say K7 is doing more harm than good. The more time he wastes with constant prod requests and virtually empty posts with no meaning, the more damage he does to us, the town. THerefore, I would urge anyone voting FaerieLord, yourself included, to switch to Killa seven. I think he's the one player a majority of the group can agree has been incredibly anti-town and scummy since teh whole forbiddan incident.
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Post Post #655 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:35 am

Post by armlx »

KoC, do you believe K7 is actually scum or just harmful in general? If the later, a lynch is subpar.
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Post Post #656 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:45 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

I believe K7 to be scum with all my heart, based on the vast amount of anti-town play, and the steering of the forbiddan lynch.
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Post Post #657 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:46 am

Post by armlx »

Ok, your last post was not clear on that.
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Post Post #658 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:48 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

Now can you answer my question - would you be willing to leave hte FL wagon to take down the arguably more scummy Killa7?
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Post Post #659 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:50 am

Post by armlx »

You mean my firestarter vote? Not at the moment, but I will reread one game where K7 was scum before making a final decision.
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Post Post #660 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:55 am

Post by SpyreX »

Ok, I'll half-bite.

Right now I'm not seeing him steering the forbidden lynch. Yes, his other coming out of lurking plays have not been great, but I'm not sold on it.

I think the interplay between his vote and statement (which fits his play) and forbid pushed the lynch but HE himself didn't. Show me otherwise. ;)
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Post Post #661 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:51 am

Post by Firestarter »

1. You call it fence sitting, I call it weighing up what’s put in front of me.

2. I did not refuse to vote, I said I would not be pressurised into voting, not when I unsure of who.

3. What’s your point? You call it a nice attack on CF, then for an unknown reason, say its not good..
All you say is its not good, I cant respond to that... sorry.

4. Au contraire, I did vote for Forbidden...

5. No, read up.

6. Your trying to make a point, yet did not back it up... On this occasion, you need to cite posts.

7. That’s a matter of interpretation.

8 . Nor do you.

9. My point was made to who I was addressing, you have the issue, so its up to you to make the point, not me.

10. You have not showed anything to be untrue. If you want to counter something in my posts, then do it with rationale, and reasoning.

11. You failed to respond to my request for you to prove that my alternatives are "false"...

12. It did suck, and still does.

13. Noted?? WTF....

14. Any questions that gather info are not menial, especially when only 1 player is scum hunting.

15. Its not impossible... You can link parts of your concise post back to other posts. A concise post, for me, is one the length of which I’m responding to, or the one I previously responded in.

16. We are guaranteed that Scum will agree, but half the game... I don’t think so. Your attack on me is wishy washy, period.

17. Chaos??? I didn't see that, I seen votes being placed on Forbidden afterwards, and those who already placed them, not removing them.. Pretty chaotic, eh?

18. You call it waffling, but don’t point to anything. Nothing to be responded to here.

19. *Token post... I’m not going to go into this, its a completely separate convo, it would take way too much time, and quite frankly I’ve better things to do here.

20. Your "take" is noted.

21. I posted in relation to your PBPA, before & after, you choose to ignore those posts.

22. Again, with what Gimbo posted, I thought an alternative action may have been better.

23. That works 50/50, for both scum & town.....
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Post Post #662 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:58 am

Post by Firestarter »

On the whole K7 thing, he is severly anti-town at this moment, and has been since he laid down his first vote, onwards.

Of the 3 Ive quizzed so far, Forbidden, armlx, and himself, he hasn't even bothered to respond, not just to me however.
ATM, there is alot going on in this thread, with several players targeting several other players, its very easy for K7 to lie low and hope the interest generated in him dies down today...

Ive got my vote placed on him at the moment, and its staying there too.
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Post Post #663 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:09 am

Post by SpyreX »

ATM, there is alot going on in this thread, with several players targeting several other players, its very easy for K7 to lie low and hope the interest generated in him dies down today...
Not going to happen. As the game goes on, those people who are being unhelpful will be called out and forced to respond. I just think now isn't the time.

BTW, please quote what you're responding to. For not arm, your replies dont help at all without context and I, personally, hate opening up two copies to figure out whats going on.
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Post Post #664 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:21 am

Post by Firestarter »

I dont like that either.... apologies...

But they are numbered in line with armlx' last post.
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Post Post #665 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:25 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

Not going to happen. As the game goes on, those people who are being unhelpful will be called out and forced to respond. I just think now isn't the time.
SO hang on, you don't want to call out Killa seven yet... why? Because the time isn't right? When isn't there a right time to lynch a severely anti-town player?
Next post will have a big ol' PBPA on K7, it'll probably be tomorrow.
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Post Post #666 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:33 am

Post by SpyreX »

Right now, as I've said, I feel that his "anti-town" is because he's a lurker more than anything else. A scummy posting lurker when he finally pops his head up, but the crux is the lurking.

I dont like day 1 lurk-lynches. That's all I mean by it. At all.

If you ask me if I think he's a BAD player a town? Of course I'd agree.
If you ask me if he's been scummy? Yep, again.
If you ask me if he's scum? Thats the one I'm not sold on.

I'm looking forward to the PBPA analysis.
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Post Post #667 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:45 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

Okay, so, he's been scummy, and he's been anti-town by your own admission... so why so reluctant to vote on him?
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Post Post #668 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:53 am

Post by SpyreX »

Because I see the case as persuing a scummy-lurker versus the more scummy play i've seen from FL which is where my vote is.

The one thing K7 has actually really done, that vote on forbidden, I personally see as the overeager townie. Everything else feels like lurking?

As you saw when I thought it was deadline, I am not reluctant to vote him. I am just more confident with where my vote is now.
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Post Post #669 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:15 am

Post by killa seven »

koc attacking me for lurking while his buddy FL is layin low going unnoticed is severly noted.
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Post Post #670 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:16 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

For the purposes of keeping this a nice, clean PBPA, I'm going to ignore posts 0-3, since they are entirely crap. Not bad, just irrelevant chatter about gimbo "always being like this" and "I'm not a fan of random voting, hense me skipping that part"

Post 4:
gimbo, leed us to the scum boss.
First minor contradiction here. First he said "Gimbo is always like this". Now, I'm willing to bet most of hte games you've played with him, he wasn't scum.
Now you're basically trying to pressure him into leading hte town to the Godfather. Huh?


Post 6
im confused about the cop investigation talk, is that this game? i thought this was day one....
Fishing, much? This reads like he didn't even bother to check the rules, and as such has no idea about roles - and is therefore fishing for information. IME, most town players don't automaticaly try to push for claims as soon as they think there may be roles about.

Post 7 is a hurried backtrack on this - "I guess he was talking about another game" - looking to avoid fishing accusations, much?

Post 8
vote forbiddanlight
please dont vote yourself and hunt scum thanks.
I'm assuming that's meant to be read as "please don't vote yourself, hunt scum, thanks." Commas go a long way to making sentences readable.
SO, hang on, you're asking her not to vote herself, but you're voting her, presumably (no reason other than the implied one was ever given) because she's voting herself. Wouldn't it have been smarter, and a teeny bit less scummy, to just suggest she unvote herself and explain? Hmm? Admittedly, we all got caught up on this, but this looks a bit eager to start the wagon rolling to me.

Post 9
town should never vote for himself or herself, ask to be replaced.
im also callin her bluff at the sametime seeing if she really wants to be in this game, thanks for ruining my plan guys.
Okaaaaay... having modded (off-site) myself, I'm pretty sure flea would rather not find another replacement at this point.
"I'm calling her bluff and seeing if she wants to stay in this game, thanks for ruining my plan, guys"
Now, um, wasn't the majority of hte forbiddan lynch based on the fact she tried to first explain her self-vote off as a plan, then as some kind of freak-out? And also, the last two posts here seem to indicate that Killa has no motive to vote forbiddan other than to "call her bluff". Never, not once, does he say "I think forbiddan is scum because 'X' and 'Y'". Everyone assumes the vote is there for the same reason as theirs, but it looks like Killa is trying to get on the wagon without ever actually indicting himself when it goes wrong, as he knows it will.

Post 10
lol i figured youd cop out and say, "i was baiting scum" ive seen this done before, your not fooling me. dont play the poor me im under pressure, vote = myself i dont want to play anymore then try to turn me into scum for voting a quiter who cant handle pressure.
So, you now bring up this whole "I knew you'd cop out and call it scum-bait" (I'm paraphrasing, my fingers refuse to drop to this level without quoting); and also attempt to discrdit one of forbiddan's defences before she actually used it. It's taken you this long to explain your vote, and the only exlpanation is "I knew what you were doing all along, har-de-har!". Yuck. Also, getting a little personal here.

Post 11
from what your saying, first your saying i was having a bad day so i voted my self, then your saying you had a plan all along. to me it seems like you really wanted to quit and voted yourself and then later retracted and pretended it was all a master plan.
No. That's was not what forbiddan was saying. Twisting her words here. This isn't what forbiddan said at all, it's just your interpretation of it - and it's a false one. If she'd wanted to quit, she would have asked to be replaced. And y'know what - I'm actually beginning to think it may have been a masterplan after all now. Everyone else is happy to vote on forbiddan's weak defence of her self-vote, but you seem to be the only one trying to put extra words into her mouth. I bet your scum-partners were cringing here.

Post 12
ive allready stated what i think of self voting if your town.
so dont self hammer, thanks. unless your scum
Ugh. Icky, icky, icky.
A verbal slip here from Killa, in which he basically admits he doesn't believe forbiddan is scum, but he is still willing to continue to lynch her. It looks here like the only reason the Killa7 BW ground to a halt is the timely hammer from Gimbo(now LlamaFluff.) It might have been interesting to see what might have happened if Gimbo hadn't stepped in with what looks like a protective hammer to me: "Must stop discussion of partner before mislynch is derailed!" Interestingly, Gimbo was also one of the first to jump onto forbiddan, along with Killa. Hmmm.

Post 13
Bogre wrote: We need to look at those who hopped on the wagon, positions like 5-9, IMO.

It was too quick for my liking.
its k7 and i didnt "hop on"
Ummm. he never mentioned you, at least, not in the bit you've quoted here. Pre-emptive defence, here.

Post 14
I dont like the way gimbo acted around the hammer of fl and his "shit post" but knowing gimbo he allways acts spazzy so its hard to tell if hes over anxious scum or just being a crazy player as allways. i need to look into the farie case the wagon came pretty fast.
None of this ever happened. Only anti-town players or scum offer to look into cases but never do, IME. Also - more excusing of Gimbo's
kerrazy
style, before anyone really even considered a serious BW on Gimbo.


Post 15 onwards will be tomorrow.
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Post Post #671 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:21 am

Post by killa seven »

Kotc wrote..

First minor contradiction here. First he said "Gimbo is always like this". Now, I'm willing to bet most of hte games you've played with him, he wasn't scum.
Now you're basically trying to pressure him into leading hte town to the Godfather. Huh?

^^^^
yo, can u not tell a fuckin joke when you see one? this is reaching and very weak.
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Post Post #672 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:15 am

Post by LlamaFluff »

SpyreX wrote:
Would you be willing to vote Killa, on the guarantee that if he flips scum, I will listen to whatever case you want to make against Corin, whose only crime I can see is lurking?
This statement at first really bothers me, but I think I understand what he's saying "You're voting for lurker X, I'm voting for luker Y. If you vote for X and he's scum, I'd be willing to listen to lurker Y being scum (as, I feel, between the two lurkers X has shown more scummy behavior).

Honestly, at this point, I think both should not be lynched but, between the two, I think K7 has behaved scummier.
This is not the point I am trying to make. I think Corin is scum, I thought he was scum BEFORE he started lurking, so I am not saying "zomg lynch all lurkers". I am saying lynch Corin because evidence points at him being scum.

This entire comprimise is scummy because it is for one taking my case out of context, and second of all, it is requiring to have me place my vote where I am not happy putting it, when a return really isnt even a sure thing.

Him asking me this would accomplish the same as me asking him to vote for Corin before he trys to get K7 lynched. It makes no sense to even be thinking that this benifits town.
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Post Post #673 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:03 pm

Post by LaptopGun »

killa seven wrote:^ that statement was scummy in itself.
lets lynch killa if hes scum ill listen to whatever u have to say? wtf?
and what makes u think me and coron would be partners because we both have lurked? yea buddy great analysis.
killa seven wrote:koc attacking me for lurking while his buddy FL is layin low going unnoticed is severly noted.
Killa 7 makes 2 good comments in a very short amount of time? Wow.
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Post Post #674 (ISO) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:47 pm

Post by Firestarter »

LaptopGun wrote:
killa seven wrote:^ that statement was scummy in itself.
lets lynch killa if hes scum ill listen to whatever u have to say? wtf?
and what makes u think me and coron would be partners because we both have lurked? yea buddy great analysis.
killa seven wrote:koc attacking me for lurking while his buddy FL is layin low going unnoticed is severly noted.
Killa 7 makes 2 good comments in a very short amount of time? Wow.
1st post = Yes...
2nd = Nope..
killa seven wrote:koc attacking me for lurking while his buddy FL is layin low going unnoticed is severly noted.
FL is far from going unnoticed.... If you are paying attention, you'd know that.
Why dont you bother actually doing something then... eh?
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