Open 776: Korina is a Cultist


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Post Post #12 (isolation #0) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:46 am

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First
non treestump checking in

@treestump so who did you recruit?

Pedit: gdi
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Post Post #20 (isolation #1) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:49 am

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In post 8, Korina wrote:Also, I'm going to truthfully answer one question per person. I will not say when I truthfully answer, but
I promise that it'll be truthful
. If you wish to ask me more questions and get a truthful answer beyond the one I have granted you, or you wish to know which question was truthfully answered, you must preform a ritual at 3:59 AM, on the third Friday of any month. The exact details of the ritual are a bit convoluted, and would take too long to post in here, but there's a video walkthrough of it, located here.
In post 16, Korina wrote:
In post 12, Farkran wrote:
First
non treestump checking in

@treestump so who did you recruit?

Pedit: gdi
You should know who ;)
This is not truthful as i have no clue at this time as to who was recruited

You're going to keep your word, treestump, and answer with the truth to my question.
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Post Post #26 (isolation #2) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:53 am

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In post 14, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:lol really?

you culted me n0?
Ok then, if korina answered me truthfully then this also must be the truth, otherwise i could have no idea about who was recruited

VOTE: Alyssa
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Post Post #47 (isolation #3) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:03 am

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To be more clear i am not RVSing, i think the joke is not actually a joke.

The same thing happened in the previous cult game where blatant scum claimed CL d1

I want alyssa lynched
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Post Post #60 (isolation #4) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:08 am

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In post 49, Korina wrote:
In post 47, Farkran wrote:To be more clear i am not RVSing, i think the joke is not actually a joke.

The same thing happened in the previous cult game where blatant scum claimed CL d1

I want alyssa lynched
Will all the perks of joining my cult change your mind?
You should have known better and recruit me n0 if you wanted me in. You made the choice, i think alyssa makes sense as a n0 target.
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Post Post #80 (isolation #5) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:13 am

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In post 63, Slaxx wrote:
In post 60, Farkran wrote:
In post 49, Korina wrote:
In post 47, Farkran wrote:To be more clear i am not RVSing, i think the joke is not actually a joke.

The same thing happened in the previous cult game where blatant scum claimed CL d1

I want alyssa lynched
Will all the perks of joining my cult change your mind?
You should have known better and recruit me n0 if you wanted me in. You made the choice, i think alyssa makes sense as a n0 target.
I would have randomized it if I were the leader

Can't outguess dice
Why? As a CL your true enemy are your own guesses, and anarchist's guesses. Why wouldn't you recruit a player with a solid reputation in order to avoid him being the anarchist?
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Post Post #92 (isolation #6) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:18 am

Post by Farkran »

Honestly if i was CL i would want people with a reputation of having good reads removed from the anarchist pool. Having them lynched is way less relevant of a risk due to this kind of wifom.

@chemist why?
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Post Post #103 (isolation #7) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:25 am

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In post 97, Auro wrote:
In post 91, Korina wrote:Plus, that's the most optimal strategy for me.
Optimal doesn't always equal fun, unfortunately.
Then what's the point of posting, even?
Like might as well just all auto-lynch today at least and tomorrow we'll have
one
cult-cult association which would be difficult to fish out anyway
D3 without cult lynches would have 4:3 worst case though, should be fun, but lynching cult then is still a loss right?

So town just has three lynches, has to lynch more cult than town, so we necessarily need 2 cult lynches? wait
2 non-cult lynches are immediately a town loss unless the anarchist gets recruited exactly n3

If we lynch the anarchist and he guesses right, he wins alone
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Post Post #114 (isolation #8) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:36 am

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In post 109, Sujimichi wrote:Hey everyone! I am not familiar with this type of game, but I though joining Farkran and Chemist1422 would be fun. I am glad Auro and Klick joined as well.
Oh hi suji! Glad to hear you would like to play with me, it goes the same for me!

Pedit: when will you stop scumreading tryharding, guys? It's always the same movie, and never once was correct.

I want to hear about my scum equity.
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Post Post #118 (isolation #9) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:39 am

Post by Farkran »

lol
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Post Post #126 (isolation #10) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:42 am

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Tinfoil klick is VT

Surface read but no reason not to be true
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Post Post #133 (isolation #11) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:50 am

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Suji what would you do as town in this game?
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Post Post #159 (isolation #12) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:05 am

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In post 146, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 133, Farkran wrote:Suji what would you do as town in this game?
I would do the same thing I would do any game and try to establish Town reads. Arguably that will be more difficult in this type of game since the only association between two players at this current time is with a player who, in my opinion, it is best to try and ignore.
There is effectively 1 scum today, and alignment changes down the road. Do you think a standard strategy is optimal?

Pedit: can't keep up from mobile let me read
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Post Post #166 (isolation #13) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:07 am

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In post 154, Klick wrote:I would accept Klick/Drixx/Auro/Farkran for the time being

Thoughts from Auro and Farkran?
I am ok with it
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Post Post #173 (isolation #14) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:10 am

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In post 161, Auro wrote:
In post 159, Farkran wrote:Do you think a standard strategy is optimal?
The only constant in whatever strategy is to be charismatic enough not to be the lynch ever
Not entirely true

While the best chances for the anarchist would be to be recruited and win with the town, he would rather be lynched d1 than survive to n3 or lynched later. Maybe. It would be in his best interest to lynch cultists too though, since i guess if we lynch all of them he has to guess exactly zero cultists on n3? Unlikely, but the less names he has to get right, the better
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Post Post #183 (isolation #15) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:18 am

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Best chances come from being recruited, sure, but if he isn't i think he'd rather be lynched d1

I'm trying to get into different mindset to have a better grasp of what their agenda would look like

Cult's best bet would be to mislynch anything that moves to gain win points (bussing is almost whiteflag worthy), anarchist tries to get recruited, town tries to pinpoint cult to the best of their possibilities
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Post Post #205 (isolation #16) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:45 am

Post by Farkran »

Why klick cultist?

pedit: i hate you all i can't get anything first in this game
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Post Post #217 (isolation #17) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:50 am

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In post 202, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:I still think cult hasn't posted yet
Why Homura cult?

pedit: ...no seriously i am sad now, i'll stop repeating stuff

I also slightly townlean RCE for that analysis, but i think the reads are backwards
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Post Post #241 (isolation #18) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:23 am

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I don't think korina is randing, he has everything to lose by randing. If we don't want to enter the realm of korinaspec though i still think that Alyssa joke was more AI than it was supposed to be.

I meta-townread sujimichi too for now
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Post Post #246 (isolation #19) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:32 am

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In post 242, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:
In post 241, Farkran wrote:I don't think korina is randing, he has everything to lose by randing. If we don't want to enter the realm of korinaspec though i still think that Alyssa joke was more AI than it was supposed to be.

I meta-townread sujimichi too for now
what do you think was korina's strategy?
In post 80, Farkran wrote:Why? As a CL your true enemy are your own guesses, and anarchist's guesses. Why wouldn't you recruit a player with a solid reputation in order to avoid him being the anarchist?
To elaborate, i'd rather have someone with good reads by my side rather than against me, when the drawback is just having to wifom my way against his d1 lynch. After having achieved that, i don't even care.

Pedit: yes, i still believe it's true, further motive would be ank reputation
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Post Post #249 (isolation #20) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:39 am

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In post 18, Korina wrote:
In post 14, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:lol really?

you culted me n0?
Hey, I just pulled up random.org, and put everyone's name into a list. You happened to be at the top of the list.
I mean, from Korina i would expect he would open random.org, puts players into a list... and doesn't push the randomize button.

But silliness aside, do you think alyssa would make that opening statement as town?
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Post Post #257 (isolation #21) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:04 am

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In post 253, Conspire wrote:So, I don't think Korina's gonna be looking to recruit someone who doesn't enjoy scum; especially on night 0. I know of a few players in this list that have said they don't enjoy scum as much as town before, but the question is whether Korina is also aware of those preferences.

I think he's incentiviced to pick overall strong players that we are likely to keep around for at least a day or two even if we scumread them, since their reads would be useful if town.

-Cosmic
I am fairly sure korina knows (because of a game that we played together) that i enjoy playing scum more than town, but i haven't been recruited n0. Rest of the post i agree with.
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Post Post #262 (isolation #22) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:23 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 110, Klick wrote:VOTE: Farkran
Has like +++ cultist equity which is as much as we can hope for D1 in this setup.
In post 115, Klick wrote:I would like to form something similar to a townbloc with Chemist, Slaxx and Auro
Pls /confirm your participation publically

PEdit: the initial gambit of 'lol I'm cultist' is more likely to happen if you are actually recruited N1 than if you aren't.
In post 117, Klick wrote:
In post 14, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:lol really?

you culted me n0?
Oh shit yeah

VOTE: Alyssa The Lamb
@RCE i think you're referring to this klick passage

Why do you think it's more likely that he didn't read rather than just mixing up the names from my exchange with Alyssa and Korina?
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Post Post #268 (isolation #23) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:46 am

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In post 265, RCEnigma wrote:Then it's not so scummy and I'm a bad reader too.
Might be a good time to update your reads then!
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Post Post #271 (isolation #24) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:56 am

Post by Farkran »

Alyssa do you have any reads so far?
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Post Post #278 (isolation #25) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:56 pm

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In post 277, Conspire wrote:Yeah, so Farkran isn't as scummy as I originally thought; Esper has similar thoughts to him regarding Alyssa's posts. She agrees that the Alyssa entrance feels unnatural.

Farkran, I'd still like to hear why you compared it to Blatant Scum claiming cult as cult in a previous game though. Were you aware he did that in every game?

-Cosmic
I only played with blatant scum twice, town!bs did not introduce himself as scum, although he was a repin in a newbie game at the time.

This has not much to do with BS himself though, i think that such introduction is also scummy in a vacuum, like when you notice scum RVS-voting their partners. It happens much more often than it should for their own good.
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Post Post #295 (isolation #26) » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:50 pm

Post by Farkran »

In post 280, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:
In post 271, Farkran wrote:Alyssa do you have any reads so far?
I have plenty of reads
So... who do we lynch today if not you?
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Post Post #298 (isolation #27) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:17 am

Post by Farkran »

Why Homura?
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Post Post #302 (isolation #28) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:35 am

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Why Homura is higher value than Sujimichi?
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Post Post #303 (isolation #29) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:36 am

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In post 301, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:I can reveal my thoughts later, I feel nobody caught it
Oh i didn't notice the new page

I think i haven't caught it
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Post Post #306 (isolation #30) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:47 am

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Oh

Nice
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Post Post #308 (isolation #31) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:00 am

Post by Farkran »

People voting Homura!
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Post Post #317 (isolation #32) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:42 am

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Alyssa, why are you not voting Homura?
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Post Post #319 (isolation #33) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:45 am

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In post 316, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 312, Auro wrote:Suji, what do you think about Klick trying to form a townbloc at this stage of the game?
Given that this game should not be played as a normal game, it would make sense to approach it from a stance of probability. Just as it is improbable to correctly identify the Cultist on Day 1, a "townbloc" on Day 1 would probably mostly include Town members. This seems like an okay thing to create; however, starting with Day 2 it would be almost useless.
But more important than this, do you think creating a townbloc comes from a cult mindset or not?
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Post Post #321 (isolation #34) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:16 am

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In post 320, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 319, Farkran wrote:
In post 316, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 312, Auro wrote:Suji, what do you think about Klick trying to form a townbloc at this stage of the game?
Given that this game should not be played as a normal game, it would make sense to approach it from a stance of probability. Just as it is improbable to correctly identify the Cultist on Day 1, a "townbloc" on Day 1 would probably mostly include Town members. This seems like an okay thing to create; however, starting with Day 2 it would be almost useless.
But more important than this, do you think creating a townbloc comes from a cult mindset or not?
It both reduces the potential pool of candidates to lynch (which is a minor negative for the Cultist) and decreases the likelihood of the Cultist being lynched (which is strong positive for the Cultist). I would lean toward a net positive for the Cultist (especially in the case he or she is able to continue it past Day 1, but that seems less likely), so it very well could come from a Cultist mindset.
Sorry, i'm not sure if i follow you

Why does creating a townbloc decrease the likelihood of the Cultist being lynched?
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Post Post #328 (isolation #35) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:08 am

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In post 322, Sujimichi wrote:I am assuming the Cultist would place themselves within the "townbloc" and that the "townbloc" would not lynch within themselves. This would remove, or significantly decrease the likelihood of, the Cultist from being a potential lynch on Day 1.
This is only true if the cultist manages to get in though.

Based on what you just told me, would you agree that the townbloc itself is clean except for klick, the slot that tried to form it?

Not trying to place words in your mouth, i want to understand your thought process and see if it can lead to any relevant conclusion or it's just a "sure, everyone could be scum" waving strategy.
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Post Post #330 (isolation #36) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:13 am

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Uhm, sure

What didn't you like?
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Post Post #332 (isolation #37) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:16 am

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Ok, i'll give you some time to test your theory
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Post Post #334 (isolation #38) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:20 am

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In post 333, Auro wrote:I was just screwing with you :P
Do you think Alyssa has good cult potential?
I am currently failing to identify a better candidate, although i want to hear her again first, there's something that could make me change my mind. If i am wrong on her, suji might be my next guess.
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Post Post #338 (isolation #39) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:39 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 335, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 328, Farkran wrote:
In post 322, Sujimichi wrote:I am assuming the Cultist would place themselves within the "townbloc" and that the "townbloc" would not lynch within themselves. This would remove, or significantly decrease the likelihood of, the Cultist from being a potential lynch on Day 1.
This is only true if the cultist manages to get in though.

Based on what you just told me, would you agree that the townbloc itself is clean
except for klick, the slot that tried to form it?


Not trying to place words in your mouth, i want to understand your thought process and see if it can lead to any relevant conclusion or it's just a "sure, everyone could be scum" waving strategy.
I am confused. Based on your post , I thought your question was referring to the "townbloc" that Klick created and you quoted my response to Auro. In this instance, this would mean that the Cultist was
the player who attempted to create the "townbloc
" so, yes, I would assume that the Cultist managed to "get in."
If you read the bolded, why are you confused?

I asked you if you think that, out of the current townbloc, klick is the only potential cultist, or if you are just saying that everyone could be cultist regardless.
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Post Post #378 (isolation #40) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:20 am

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In post 339, Sujimichi wrote:Apologies, I do not think I understood your intended question. I do think Klick has a stronger potential to be the Cultist than everyone else in the "townbloc."
Now we are on the same page with my question, although this goes in slight contrast with your introduction in this game.

Regardless, does this mean that you are townleaning Fark/Auro/Slaxx?
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Post Post #497 (isolation #41) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:23 am

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In post 495, RCEnigma wrote:Farkran I really like you for town right now but I want the block to be like, you, Alyssa, suji, auro.

Talk me through your suji!cultist read.

Also if you take Alyssa's RVs post out and put it in a vacuum does your read there change at all?
Sujimichi has a relevant reputation among the new players - if you look him up, you will notice a nomination in the scummies 2020 for his scumplay. I would think he's the perfect player sorting by skill/reputation ratio, fitting a middle-of-the-road recruit of a good player that wouldn't stand out much despite never being actually lynched. He is very good at being townread as both alignments, but is not well known. In this game, i meta-townread him but it's not anything i would bet my life on - if i am wrong on my main guess, he's a good fallback option.
Aside from meta/out-of-game analysis, his introduction here was kinda shaky. He is a very logical player, but he doesn't seem to have the best understanding of this setup - once again, this is nothing scumlock worthy, just not what i would expect from a rational mind like suji's. Like, the comment about forming a town bloc, followed by "the guy who creates the town bloc has more cult equity than people inside the town bloc itself" is a bit awkward, considering all the mechanics present in this game.

WRT Alyssa, i think the slot is suffering bias from being wagoned because of that introduction, it's hard to re-evaluate without considering it. I mean, even her posts would suffer from it, not just the readers. If i had to give my honest opinion about her content, it would be that it's kinda lackluster - i'm still waiting for her reads and her explanation to said reads. As i said, it's hard to consider her without bias, but contrary to slots like klick i don't have anything strong to call her town.
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Post Post #507 (isolation #42) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:48 am

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Ok, if i can buy that i'm probably wrong on suji, i actually agree on everything that Alyssa said in the last 5-6 posts.

Why RCE is not green in your list, Alyssa? Him and Suji might be the our "biggest" clashes so far

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #511 (isolation #43) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:52 am

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In post 499, RCEnigma wrote:I always assume players I'm unfamiliar with have strong town/scum games. I'm interested in the meta-townread if you want to expand on that.
I played several times with suji and i read his scumgame (the game that made him a nomination). This suji looks more like the town!suji i know than the scum!suji in that other game. His attitude is more like... asking himself questions rather than giving other people answers, if you know what i mean?

The sample size is small though, and suji is not an easy read under normal circumstances.
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Post Post #517 (isolation #44) » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:00 pm

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VOTE: Conspire i'm fine trying this. There's too little content coming from a hydra.
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Post Post #583 (isolation #45) » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:04 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 520, Conspire wrote:I'm also not that familiar with the playlist; out of the ones I know though, I probably TR Slaxx a bit

Current thoughts: based on fun-value, I still think Korina's gonna chose someone he likes working with/is a strong player and in my mind, that's gotta be Alyssa/Farkran. Kind of changed my mind and I can see it going either way now. Either Alyssa's joke was scum indicative, or scum!Farkran made an easy push on the first thing he saw.
VOTE: Alyssa the Lamb

~Esper
Weird PoE though, before the last pages i would have expected you to include Homura in that pool, based on the reasoning of quickly pushing easy stuff. Which i don't find particularly scummy, unless it's made in an opportunistic fashion. I was the first vote on alyssa, Homura was 3rd, i think? That would be enough to give me some pause and think - ultimately i'd place homura fairly high in my lynch priority list but that's also because of my own PoE rather than Homura individual scumminess.

Going forward with the pages though, i don't think that being a known lurker would imply more attractriveness for Korina. I never played with Homura, i don't know if she has any alts/etc, but if she has a reputation of being a lurker i'd lean against lynching there in this game and today. The same applies to Chemist, for whom i have direct meta of.

Concluding, i think my lynchpool for today is limited to {Alyssa, Suji, Conspire} + Homura if the lurker reasoning doesn't apply.
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Post Post #587 (isolation #46) » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:31 am

Post by Farkran »

One thing i am awkwardly surprised of is that nobody is trying to pre-play the cult wincon. I only have played one cult game, but the amount of anti-wincon nastiness provided was significant and i would have expected at least a partial reiteration of that. I'm still trying to determine if this is AI to someone, but i wanted to point it out nonetheless.
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Post Post #588 (isolation #47) » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:32 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 507, Farkran wrote:Ok, if i can buy that i'm probably wrong on suji, i actually agree on everything that Alyssa said in the last 5-6 posts.

Why RCE is not green in your list, Alyssa? Him and Suji might be the our "biggest" clashes so far

UNVOTE:
Alyssa did you ever answer this? If you did, i didn't find it in your iso.
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Post Post #603 (isolation #48) » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:19 pm

Post by Farkran »

In post 583, Farkran wrote:Concluding, i think my lynchpool for today is limited to {Alyssa, Suji, Conspire} + Homura if the lurker reasoning doesn't apply.
Lynchpool is still there, i'll likely remove suji though
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Post Post #623 (isolation #49) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:07 am

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Nah, Chemist isn't cult here
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Post Post #626 (isolation #50) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:21 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 529, Conspire wrote:
In post 517, Farkran wrote:VOTE: Conspire i'm fine trying this. There's too little content coming from a hydra.
I've massively overgamed myself as always. I'll catchup and give thoughts tomorrow.

-Cosmic
Still waiting for this, i'd like some hard stances

So far the content is scarce, all we have is this
In post 253, Conspire wrote:So, I don't think Korina's gonna be looking to recruit someone who doesn't enjoy scum; especially on night 0. I know of a few players in this list that have said they don't enjoy scum as much as town before, but the question is whether Korina is also aware of those preferences.

I think he's incentiviced to pick overall strong players that we are likely to keep around for at least a day or two even if we scumread them, since their reads would be useful if town.

-Cosmic
In post 274, Conspire wrote:I do agree Korina's choices are probably not random though. Korina needs someone who will stick around and random!culting could affect that. Insisting on random culting sends us on a wild goose chase.

~Esper
In post 276, Conspire wrote:It's definitely not random though. That's just boring.

-Cosmic
Which i agree with, but the conclusion is this:
In post 520, Conspire wrote:I'm also not that familiar with the playlist; out of the ones I know though, I probably TR Slaxx a bit

Current thoughts: based on fun-value, I still think Korina's gonna chose someone he likes working with/is a strong player and in my mind, that's gotta be Alyssa/Farkran. Kind of changed my mind and I can see it going either way now. Either Alyssa's joke was scum indicative, or scum!Farkran made an easy push on the first thing he saw.
VOTE: Alyssa the Lamb

~Esper
Feels like the easy side of the push, trying to consolidate the counterwagon
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Post Post #630 (isolation #51) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:29 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 627, Auro wrote:You don't feel like Homura/Conspire are easy pushes?
No, Alyssa has always been the longest wagon when the others formed. She has been the easy push for the whole game so far, doesn't mean it isn't correct. My point is that several people tried probing the ground elsewhere while conspire did not.

pedit: insomnia, it's true that there are no associatives to make, but scum is there and has a scum agenda to push a mislynch, the easy push argument isn't completely moot. Still, i don't think anyone has been an easy push besides Alyssa so far
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Post Post #634 (isolation #52) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:35 am

Post by Farkran »

mod iso

should be comprehensive iirc
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Post Post #644 (isolation #53) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:47 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 26, Farkran wrote:
In post 14, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:lol really?

you culted me n0?
Ok then, if korina answered me truthfully then this also must be the truth, otherwise i could have no idea about who was recruited

VOTE: Alyssa
In post 66, Auro wrote:VOTE: Alyssa The Lamb
In post 85, Chemist1422 wrote:VOTE: Farkran
In post 87, Slaxx wrote:VOTE: Farkran

Dude is making a big-brained play and was actually recruited N1

Calling it
In post 110, Klick wrote:VOTE: Farkran
Has like +++ cultist equity which is as much as we can hope for D1 in this setup.
In post 117, Klick wrote:
In post 14, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:lol really?

you culted me n0?
Oh shit yeah

VOTE: Alyssa The Lamb
In post 128, Slaxx wrote:VOTE: Alyssa
In post 134, Auro wrote:VOTE: Alyssa The Lamb
Sorry for hammering so early, were you cult

doublevote -ndr
In post 245, Conspire wrote:VOTE: Farkran
In post 47, Farkran wrote:To be more clear i am not RVSing, i think the joke is not actually a joke.

The same thing happened in the previous cult game where blatant scum claimed CL d1

I want alyssa lynched
Do you still believe this is true?

Blatant Scum's whole shtick is claiming scum/cult regardless of alignment. So, why use that as an example to cultread Alyssa for doing it?

-Cosmic
In post 255, Homura wrote:Hello.

VOTE: Alyssa The Lamb
In post 329, Auro wrote:VOTE: Farkran
In post 475, Auro wrote:VOTE: Alyssa The Lamb
Suji, do consider sheeping me here.
In post 520, Conspire wrote:I'm also not that familiar with the playlist; out of the ones I know though, I probably TR Slaxx a bit

Current thoughts: based on fun-value, I still think Korina's gonna chose someone he likes working with/is a strong player and in my mind, that's gotta be Alyssa/Farkran. Kind of changed my mind and I can see it going either way now. Either Alyssa's joke was scum indicative, or scum!Farkran made an easy push on the first thing he saw.
VOTE: Alyssa the Lamb

~Esper
Up to date, sorted chronologically
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Post Post #647 (isolation #54) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:49 am

Post by Farkran »

I don't think Chemist and Klick are cult, Auro is currently one of my highest townreads
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Post Post #655 (isolation #55) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:58 am

Post by Farkran »

Auro, who are the hard to lynch townies, in your opinion?
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Post Post #660 (isolation #56) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:03 am

Post by Farkran »

Yeah i know Alyssa is referring to us, but i'd also like your personal opinion

Because to be honest i didn't see any slot easier to lynch than Alyssa, before conspire became the highest wagon just moments ago

@Auro
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Post Post #664 (isolation #57) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:20 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 661, Auro wrote: @Farkan:
Replace 'lynch' with 'push'
- there's going to be a lot of pushback if someone tries to lead a push on Alyssa/You/Me/Slaxx etc; and I'd think it's much easier to coast while pushing a slot like Homura. I agree that Alyssa was a convenient vote for a while, but they seem to have stuck with it even after the general thread consensus seemed to change.
Bolded: agreed and that's what i meant to say

I don't feel like Homura would be a coastable push though. Remember how Alyssa was going like "cult hasn't posted yet" when the last slot to speak was exactly homura and nobody picked that up
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Post Post #668 (isolation #58) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:26 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 666, Auro wrote:
In post 664, Farkran wrote:Remember how Alyssa was going like "cult hasn't posted yet" when the last slot to speak was exactly homura and nobody picked that up
What do you mean? :P
In post 202, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:I still think cult hasn't posted yet
In post 207, Auro wrote:So you think Homura is cult, Ank?
I mean that nobody actually pushed there until she actually spoke, and even then the wagon dropped almost immediately
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Post Post #672 (isolation #59) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:12 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 671, Auro wrote:
In post 668, Farkran wrote:I mean that nobody actually pushed there until she actually spoke, and even then the wagon dropped almost immediately
What would the former argument imply?
Well, the latter seems a bit post-hoc-y, no?
That i don't think Homura is a coastable push based on what happened?

What does post-hoc-y mean? :D

Anyways, i don't think the dissonance is strongly AI for the Conspire slot unless you are also familiar with the two heads and you know them to do that. For me, it's the first time playing with them, but if i were in a hydra with anyone else i would talk a lot with my paired head, taking notes in our PT, etc - unless we were scum, because in that scenario i would post notes and thoughts in the scum PT instead of the hydra. The resulting effect would be harmonic posting because we agree on our reads/strategy to push mislynches, or the opposite because we disagree, as any alignment - so, i guess the dissonance argument would be more useful to sort those speaking about it rather than the topic in question, and i believe Auro comes out townier on that, while Alyssa
could
be paving a trajectory path to vote/hammer her counterwagon as today's lynch?

I mean, the argument is valid for both sides, but in my mind Alyssa vs Conspire looks better for Alyssa rn
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Post Post #674 (isolation #60) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:20 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 673, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:Just fyi farkran

I tend to play stereotypically town as scum and stereotypically scum as town

Make of that what you will
I noticed. I feel like our playstyles are clashing by nature and i tend to scumread you more than you deserve, but that doesn't make you conftown

Also i have a semi-explicited tinfoil argument that lamistiness in this game has ultrahigh chance to flip non-cult
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Post Post #677 (isolation #61) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:35 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 675, Auro wrote:@Farkan: Yes, I believe that at that point of time Homura would have appeared as a good push for various reasons, even if the consensus shifted a while later (and to Conspire, which Conspire can't hop on :P).

I disagree with you about the dissonance part, as my argument is about the *amount* of dissonance rather than having dissonance itself. The "dissonance" they presented was pretty awkward and appeared unplanned (++likely town).

If they wanted to appear dissonant for whatever reason, they would've planned it.
If they wanted to appear dissonant and then converge (which is ? anyway), they would've gone about it in a better manner than an explicit "I changed my mind"
If they didn't want to appear dissonant, they'd very very prolly plan it out; plus it's not even hard to not appear dissonant in thread anyway.

The "dissonance" was aimless, the explicit convergence was also aimless.
Maybe. I have never been in a hydra, and i didn't play with enough hydrae to discern whether they would plan harmony or dissonance as an AI measure, so i can only make logical inference that i would not - either we agree or disagree, and that would apply to scumread pushes as well as mislynch pushes/self-defensive posting.
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Post Post #678 (isolation #62) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:36 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 676, Auro wrote:
In post 204, Klick wrote:I take this game ridiculously easy if I'm lucky enough to get recruited N0.
I feel like you are. :P
In post 609, Klick wrote:Auro, I'm willing to do gambits, but I'm not this silly
If I were cult this game would be ez win.
Meanwhile there's pretty clear town motivation in my play if you think about it
. I thought you were doing the same thing I was.
This appeal -- especially the bolded -- feels scummy.
I don't think trying to form a townbloc is really a "gambit" and I don't think Klick was aware that attempting to form a townbloc would be seen as scummy when he actually tried to do so - I can see cultist!Klick thinking he was mimicking town when he did that.
I disagree wrt klick
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Post Post #685 (isolation #63) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:58 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 683, Auro wrote:
In post 677, Farkran wrote:Maybe. I have never been in a hydra, and i didn't play with enough hydrae to discern whether they would plan harmony or dissonance as an AI measure, so i can only make logical inference that i would not - either we agree or disagree, and that would apply to scumread pushes as well as mislynch pushes/self-defensive posting.
I'll break down my argument:
1. The level of awkward dissonance (and reversal) there doesn't look planned.
2. Unplanned dissonance more likely comes from town than scum.

Do you disagree with (1), or (2)?
I disagree with (2)
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Post Post #688 (isolation #64) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:07 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 680, Auro wrote:Let's talk about Klick?
Let's.

I think klick has been displaying a lot of protown content, and has initially pushed seemingly easy targets (Alyssa), then reconsidered and switched his vote on Conspire, for which he is still the wagon driver - meaning that he wasn't pushing the easy choice at the time - i think he was probing Conspire at the time, then things sticked because Conspire's reaction was poor. That's how i see it.

Wrt the argument "cult!klick would form a town bloc", i don't particularly agree - the day was going quite smooth without his intervention, if we consider coasting as scum indicative, klick has been doing the opposite of that
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Post Post #704 (isolation #65) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:35 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 689, Auro wrote:@Farkran: Why must you need personal experience to make an inference about (2)?
I'd say apply the same metrics you would to a non-hydra slot.
Unplanned dissonance means a lack of agenda.
A lack of agenda comes more ++likely from town than scum, especially in a gamestate where you're the only scum and you're getting pushed.
Because, not having any direct experience of being IN a hydra, or playing WITH other hydrae, i don't have a particularly good grasp of how people perceive hydra harmony or hydra dissonance. My logical inference would be to find it NAI, but perhaps this is not what the general consensus is, and this may lead to actively try to force dissonance or harmony when speaking from a hydra account to gain town points. I cannot apply the same metric to non-hydra slots unless they share a PT somehow, either scum/mason/neighbors; in all of those cases there usually is forced dissonance to avoid associatives, but there isn't any such thing coming from a hydra.

I don't think unplanned dissonance necessarily implies a lack of agenda, but it does imply a lack of agreement between the heads. I don't think there is more reason for a town hydra not to coordinate themselves before posting than there is for a scum hydra though. Why would i not coordinate with my other town head about our reads before outing them in the main thread? Likewise, why would i not coordinate with my other scum head (and the rest of the scumteam) for which mislynches to push and how to look the towniest as possible? I don't know, forced or genuine dissonance is just something i would not do. If i had fights to make, i would solve them privately as any alignment, and eventually out my thoughs in the main thread if i feel they would be useful to understand how i arrived to a conclusion.

(sorry, i had this written up but i got caught in other stuff and forgot to post)
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Post Post #705 (isolation #66) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:39 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 692, Auro wrote:
In post 688, Farkran wrote:I think klick has been displaying a lot of protown content, and has initially pushed seemingly easy targets (Alyssa), then reconsidered and switched his vote on Conspire, for which he is still the wagon driver - meaning that he wasn't pushing the easy choice at the time - i think he was probing Conspire at the time, then things sticked because Conspire's reaction was poor. That's how i see it.

Wrt the argument "cult!klick would form a town bloc", i don't particularly agree - the day was going quite smooth without his intervention, if we consider coasting as scum indicative, klick has been doing the opposite of that
I think viewing the whole game through the lens of "were they pushing an easy lynch or not" isn't anywhere enough to nail good scum players. The argument holds more weight for... ehrm, "weak" scum players maybe but Klick is definitely adept at playing scum. I can back this up pretty easily if needed. :P

I see zero "probing" of Conspire from Klick. He left the vote, and? There's no engagement at all with Conspire.
He has stated the following: "I think Conspire is a good lynch", "It's literally just Conspire", "Conspire is actively scummy". This doesn't exactly look like solving, no?

Coasting is scum indicative, but not-coasting isn't town indicative.
Klick
wouldn't coast as either alignment.
I meant no offense to klick's scumplay, but with just 1 scum available i think easy pushes are one of the most reliable sources of info to trail on. One of the peculiarity of cult games - in my experience - has been that being lamisty has much lower scum equity than in other setups, and everything klick has been doing looks extremely protown on a surface level.
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Post Post #707 (isolation #67) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:44 am

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In post 702, Klick wrote:I legit think Conspire has the highest odds of flipping scum here.
Homura's a decent shot too.

You/RCE/Suji/Farkran have all towntold pretty hard. Drixx and Alyssa don't feel scummy either at this point. insomnia's posts have been pretty good and I don't think Chemist flakes out of the lone scum slot.
In post 703, Klick wrote:I truly think that the strategy that gives any townie the highest odds of winning today is forming a 4-5 person townbloc and refusing to lynch outside of it at any point.
I'm satisfied with Slaxx/Alyssa/Farkran (if Slaxx and Farkran are fine with Alyssa). I'm open to alternatives.
My only reservation wrt Alyssa is that she had undergone a significant tonal change from her introduction, which might be a consequence of her being scumread regardless of alignment - i think that she might have tried to push Homura as a coast-like strategy, but as i said nobody picked up, so now she's trying to push her counterwagon Conspire with a weird trajectory based on hydra dissonance.

But i mean, i made a very similar argument on Conspire - this is one of the situations i would label "TvS" in a standard game and we could lynch one through the other, but in a game where alignments shift over night it's not a particularly good idea, so i am trying to pick one as accurately as possible, and i want to hear Conspire again before doing that.
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Post Post #708 (isolation #68) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:45 am

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In post 706, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:
In post 705, Farkran wrote:One of the peculiarity of cult games - in my experience - has been that being lamisty has much lower scum equity than in other setups
I'm curious why you think this is

I have never thought about it so I'm interested in it on a theory level
Because one of the added conditions to your wincon would be being culted and win alongside cult, so you either consciously (borderline cheating) or subconsciously (can't do much about it) try to look even more town than you do as scum in a standard game. This is even more true in THIS particular game.
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Post Post #717 (isolation #69) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:22 am

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In post 709, Auro wrote:@Farkran:
I don't think you need to have a very good grasp to apply normal scumhunt methods to hydra dynamics.
I can guarantee you that they share some form of communication.
Having a hydra PT is standard for any game; they likely have Discord chat if not a PT.
It's been established that Cult has daytalk, I think. So if they're scum, they -definitely- have an avenue to plan, and with Korina included too.

I don't think there's more *reason* for town to not co-ordinate, Farkran. I think it's more likely that town
doesn't bother
co-ordinating sometimes over scum not bothering to; so a lack of co-ordination in an unplanned manner is more likely to come from town. It doesn't look like a fight, it looks like they're just individually throwing out opinions and just haven't found a chance to talk to each other yet.

Regarding Klick, say I agree it's a good metric - I still think you're applying the metric wrong. I don't think Conspire was even remotely a "hard push". I think it's incredibly easy to shift a trajectory there. If Klick was engaging with and pushing a bunch of slots aggressively, I'd agree - but he's clearly not been doing that. You're also ignoring the latter part of my argument where I show he's not even really "probing" Conspire? He's only repeatedly said they're a good/optimal lynch.

Hey, I'm enjoying engaging with you btw! :D
I definitely don't have a good grasp around hydrae, because i lack experience. My logical inference is still that, as town VTs they have a duty not to get scumread, and that's what they should try to do. "Should", because i know more than well enough that there are a wholesome lot of players who don't adhere to this theory - still, i don't think that
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player wouldn't bother to sound dissonant as town. I wouldn't. As a conclusion of this argument though, i can agree that the dissonance is NAI at worst or town AI at best, so i don't think it's a good reason to push there. There are other reasons, though.

Wrt klick, look at his vote on Conspire in post . It's a blank vote, shifting away from the highest wagon Alyssa. That's what i mean by probing. I don't think klick WANTED to make a push on Conspire - he tried a random push outside his PoE, and it sticked because of Conspire and other people's reactions.

Klick, what's your take on this? Why is Conspire a good lynch?
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Post Post #756 (isolation #70) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:05 am

Post by Farkran »

Where is suji? I don't think he is usually vla during the we's, is he just MIA?
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Post Post #757 (isolation #71) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:06 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 494, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 486, Auro wrote:Jk, but I'll detail my reasons tomorrow - need to sleep right now, see y'all
Apologies. You stated here that you would address later.
Incidentally @auro did this happen?
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Post Post #762 (isolation #72) » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:29 pm

Post by Farkran »

In post 761, Jingle wrote:Conspire has requested replacement.
While you are here jingle, if you have 48h prod timers, suji probably needs a prod
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Post Post #777 (isolation #73) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:59 am

Post by Farkran »

3 days to deadline, i think Conspire replaceout is NAI though. My townread of klick consolidates based on his posts, we should never lynch him today

My lynchpool is still {Alyssa, Conspire}, but i'd very much like to hear from suji and the replacement if we can make it in time.
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Post Post #781 (isolation #74) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:28 am

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In post 779, Klick wrote:Fark what are your thoughts on the replace-out? Just NAI?
The replaceout itself yes, it's NAI. I don't think this setup is particularly unbalanced in favor of any alignment. It would have been if the Anarchist won alone by being recruited, but they win with the town if they are recruited
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Post Post #787 (isolation #75) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:56 am

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In post 786, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 603, Farkran wrote:
In post 583, Farkran wrote:Concluding, i think my lynchpool for today is limited to {Alyssa, Suji, Conspire} + Homura if the lurker reasoning doesn't apply.
Lynchpool is still there, i'll likely remove suji though
What changed from post that led to you "likely" removing me?
I mulled it over and determined that you were not a good lynch for today
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Post Post #795 (isolation #76) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:13 am

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In post 794, Sujimichi wrote:Yes, but I am asking what specifically you determined during your mulling that led you to "likely" removing me.
I reread your posts and considered that while you have cult equity for your introduction in this game and your reputation, the meta townlean is still valid and i consider both Alyssae and Conspire scummier than you + other people agreed that your tone is towny in a vacuum + i think your vote history and activity do not point to cult!suji d1. I concluded that it wasn't worth it to push you today, instead focused my efforts on narrowing my pool as much as possible. You should be able to find my cases on alyssa and conspire in the last several pages
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Post Post #801 (isolation #77) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:25 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 796, Auro wrote:Farkran, if you were cult, would you be generally agreeable with vocal players, or try taking opposite stances to appear towny?
I would try to be generally agreeable with the players i townread, it's not guaranteed that i would agree with vocal players. I always produce reads as both alignments and i am seriously challenged when i try to remove bias for reconsideration purposes, so generally speaking i tend to become stubborn and ultimately fight against consensus at some point.

You will notice that i am very active in scum PTs, because i like making friends in the scum PT and make fun of the town when they are wrong.
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Post Post #802 (isolation #78) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:28 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 799, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 795, Farkran wrote:
In post 794, Sujimichi wrote:Yes, but I am asking what specifically you determined during your mulling that led you to "likely" removing me.
I reread your posts and considered that while you have cult equity for your introduction in this game and your reputation, the meta townlean is still valid and i consider both Alyssae and Conspire scummier than you + other people agreed that your tone is towny in a vacuum + i think your vote history and activity do not point to cult!suji d1. I concluded that it wasn't worth it to push you today, instead focused my efforts on narrowing my pool as much as possible. You should be able to find my cases on alyssa and conspire in the last several pages
Thank you. Is there anything you would like from me in particular given your comment above in post ?
Yes, your up to date opinion on the current gamestate and in particular on Alyssa and Conspire. and mainly.

I see that you have already talked about Homura and Klick, however i disagree on both - i don't think Homura is a partner that fits with Korina mindset and playstyle, and klick's play is town as town can get in this particular setup
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Post Post #807 (isolation #79) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:19 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 804, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 802, Farkran wrote:i don't think Homura is a partner that fits with Korina mindset and playstyle
How do you reconcile this with Conspire? Given that it is an unknown combination of two players, why do you think that Conspire could fit with Korina's mindset and playstyle more so than Homura?
My theory on homura is that korina wouldn't recruit a player who has a reputation of lurking. This also applies to Chemist, and i think insomnia consolidated that.

I don't know any of the heads of Conspire, but a hydra is rarely a lurker and might be harder to read, regardless of what we have been talking about dissonance etc. I don't think it would be a bad target from korina pov. What happened later (Conspire being wagoned and ultimately lurking out) was unforeseeable and might also be a consequence of the feeling of being caught. If anyone has a better experience of the Conspire heads and my theory is clashing with their meta, please let me know
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Post Post #811 (isolation #80) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:28 am

Post by Farkran »

Eh, maybe, but i don't think so

The existence of the anarchist gives appeal to recruiting players with a reputation of being accurate readers. Recruiting such targets removes their ability to help town, but most importantly it removes them from the anarchist pool (who wins alone if he guesses right, cult and town both lose)
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Post Post #820 (isolation #81) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:47 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 812, Auro wrote:That provides evidence against Korina picking Conspire, no?
Since the heads are unknown, the chance that they're a "reputably accurate player" is really low; a very small proportion of users on this site have super-accurate reads.
Are they unknown to everyone, not just me?

Besides, your argument applies much less to a wildcard such as an unknown hydra than it does to a longtime known lurker such as Chemist or as Homura introduced herself - and that's tinfoil pre-game speculation, Conspire have done nothing to clear their slot so far, i don't see a reason to remove them from the lynchpool just because of that.

And if i'm not lynching Conspire, i'm down to lynch Alyssa today. If i had to replace Conspire in a 2-players lynch pool, it would be Suji > RCE > Slaxx. I respect suji enough to be obvtown as scum, and the other two have been slowly fading since their introduction, the day stalling around Alyssa and Conspire seems to please them.

But realistically i just want Conspire > Alyssa

I don't think klick is a good lynch, nor is Auro or insomnia, or, well, me.
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Post Post #822 (isolation #82) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:53 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 821, Auro wrote:Suji has made precise observations that I don't think she would as cult.
RCE has been obvtown.
I think Alyssa has been obvtown as well - give me a cult case on her?
PRO
High reputation player + bad introduction + only started to play when she was wagoned + tried to double down on her counterwagon Conspire as the deadline approaches

CON
I also have seen town moments + i scumread her as town
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Post Post #837 (isolation #83) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:04 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 823, Auro wrote:High rep player - Agree.
Bad introduction - If I offer evidence that she does these sort of introductions as town, this should be NAI - agree?
Only started to play when wagoned - Can you go into detail with quotes, if possible?
Doubling down on Conspire - I could argue that Klick did this while I was pushing him, too.
1. Yes
2. Yes maybe but korina played along with my question (see the very first posts from korina) so i might not be able to remove this bias
3. Later when i am on a desktop ok?
4. True enough but i still like klick as town
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Post Post #863 (isolation #84) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:02 pm

Post by Farkran »

In post 837, Farkran wrote:
In post 823, Auro wrote:High rep player - Agree.
Bad introduction - If I offer evidence that she does these sort of introductions as town, this should be NAI - agree?
Only started to play when wagoned - Can you go into detail with quotes, if possible?
Doubling down on Conspire - I could argue that Klick did this while I was pushing him, too.
1. Yes
2. Yes maybe but korina played along with my question (see the very first posts from korina) so i might not be able to remove this bias
3. Later when i am on a desktop ok?
4. True enough but i still like klick as town
To answer point 3, i think is the first, real, relevant post that Alyssa made today. I also liked it though. Before that, there were a lot of lolposts and holstering (, , , ). After the readlist, her tone changed drastically and she started pushing lurkers as a plausible solve (, this is probably NAI though and i only find it pinging because i disagree). That was until where she starts pushing her counterwagon with the dissonance theory that we both disagreed with - again, it might be NAI from her, it might also be correct about Conspire(GIF), but Alyssa still has fairly high cult equity in my opinion
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Post Post #864 (isolation #85) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:02 pm

Post by Farkran »

Also hi GIF o/
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Post Post #865 (isolation #86) » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:03 pm

Post by Farkran »

In post 862, GuyInFreezer wrote:Oh also not lynching Alyssa until Day 2.
Let me know about this when you are fully caught up, we only have 3 lynches and if we lynch non-cult twice town is pretty much toast, unless Korina recruits the anarchist
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Post Post #897 (isolation #87) » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:10 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 895, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:I feel like his entire ISO is one big perspective slip
Uhm, explaon this? I'm not sure i follow
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Post Post #901 (isolation #88) » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:24 am

Post by Farkran »

Day is stalling a bit, i'd like to consolidate on something.

Alyssa vs Conspire still looks like the most interesting debate, i really don't see klick as scum here.

Alyssa can you answer what you meant to say with this?
In post 895, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:I feel like his entire ISO is one big perspective slip
I mean, i can see GIF posturing towards an Alyssa lynch on d2... but is this what you meant to say, or is there anything else to his catchup?
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Post Post #903 (isolation #89) » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:43 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 859, GuyInFreezer wrote:Page 10.

VOTE: RCE
In post 874, GuyInFreezer wrote:Page 25, p sure klick is town.
In post 880, GuyInFreezer wrote:I need to stop skimming posts that I think are from town.
I'm basically skipping farkran/Auro posts like I skip Korina's.
In post 881, GuyInFreezer wrote:Yeeeeeeeeah Klick is a klickbait here.
Oh look RCE is voting Klick
@Alyssa, do you think these reads are made up and irrelevant, coming from GIF catchup? Does Fark/Auro as town strike you as pushing consensus rather than genuine reads? Do you think there is scum intent in pushing RCE, or defending Klick?
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Post Post #907 (isolation #90) » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:02 pm

Post by Farkran »

In post 905, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:put it this way, Farkran

who do you think GIF would need to try to push as a counterwagon to himself?
At this point in time, it's klick. GIF is wking klick and accuses RCE (wagon leader on klick) of being cult.
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Post Post #910 (isolation #91) » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:13 pm

Post by Farkran »

Why wouldn't GIF team up with klick then, and vote Homura?
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Post Post #915 (isolation #92) » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:42 pm

Post by Farkran »

I have just recently replaced into a bad scumslot in undertale, and i ontroduced myself by fighting hard against everyone, attacking my whole wagon and making pushes against literally everyone in the playerlist

But that's me.

I'm... not particularly sure that scum!GIF repping in attacks a UTR slot like RCE while wking the main counterwagon. Joining klick on Homura seems more efficient and believable as a strategy if he wants to avoid following his pred tracks (i.e. voting alyssa) and simultaneously also avoid attacking the easiest target.

Any step beyond this seems to be overthinking from your part.

I'd like to hear GIF comments on this, i'll reread tomorrow with a fresh mind and then cast my final vote
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Post Post #926 (isolation #93) » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:12 am

Post by Farkran »

I reread again. I noticed a few things that could point to cult!Slaxx, but... i don't think he would flake when prodded if my theory was correct. It was about how Korina addressed slots to hunt the anarchist - he addressed several slots (Auro, me, klick, RCE) directly, but when he talked to Slaxx the post was about Alyssa instead ().

I still don't like Alyssa slot much, i think i want her over GIF. If we can agree that she's not as obvtown as she wants to sell herself as, i think that's the correct lynch for today.

VOTE: Alyssa

Let me know where i am horribly mistaken with this read, and don't let klick be the plurality lynch
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Post Post #928 (isolation #94) » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:21 am

Post by Farkran »

Someone has to be cult. I think GIF is not the correct choice.
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Post Post #941 (isolation #95) » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:35 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 934, Klick wrote:Fark Alyssa can't be the lynch
She's in the townbloc!
My townbloc core is {Fark, klick, Auro}, followed by insomnia, Slaxx, Homura, RCE, Suji. I never accepted Alyssa in my townbloc. I would be fine working with Auro and klick, but Auro is voting klick, and klick is voting homura.

At least two of us are wrong, possibly all three. I will not vote inside that townbloc though and i will do everything i can to prevent those people from being lynched
today
.

Aside from that, i can accept being wrong through reasoning. I am not the most accurate reader in the town, generally speaking, i am more adept at following good reasoning coming from other people who see things between the lines better than me. So far i have seen none though, only overthinking, tinfoil theories and bets.

@Auro, who's scum if klick is town?
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Post Post #943 (isolation #96) » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:20 am

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In post 942, Klick wrote:I'd love to have Auro in the townbloc but he thinks I'm scum :(

I think your top five townreads are all solid. Why RCE/Suji below Homura?
I think Homura cult equity is equal to rand if korina randed, less than rand if korina handpicked. It's just not a name i would consider for my n0 recruit, not even by wifom means
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Post Post #961 (isolation #97) » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:49 am

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In post 946, Auro wrote:Farkran, can you summarize my reasoning for Klick cult and then demonstrate which parts of it are "bad"?
My perception of your scumread of klick is that you don't believe he would be forming a townbloc as town, he seems to be taking things too easy and he cannot get his things straight (i.e. inconsistency around the lurkers).

I don't think those are good reasons to scumread him - i don't see a cult agenda, he should be trying to identify the anarchist and push for a town mislynch, but there isn't a trace of that in any of his posts.
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Post Post #998 (isolation #98) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:38 am

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In post 962, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 961, Farkran wrote:
In post 946, Auro wrote:Farkran, can you summarize my reasoning for Klick cult and then demonstrate which parts of it are "bad"?
My perception of your scumread of klick is that you don't believe he would be forming a townbloc as town, he seems to be taking things too easy and he cannot get his things straight (i.e. inconsistency around the lurkers).

I don't think those are good reasons to scumread him - i don't see a cult agenda, he should be trying to identify the anarchist and push for a town mislynch, but there isn't a trace of that in any of his posts.
A.) You would have to know wagons are on predominantly town to discern if cult is pushing for a town mislynch.
2.) Cult have a pt they can hunt anarchist in? I don't see what good it would do for that to be an in thread priority.
π.) You're assuming town won't get themselves lynched and cult has to do it. Which isn't true.

Imo inconsistency is two parts: one being fluidity of options in case they find themselves backed into a corner and two is failure to produce genuine belief in a read.

Also now that I think about it three would be prepping for the night 1 recruit to avoid having to hard switch on a read already established.
In post 974, Auro wrote:
In post 961, Farkran wrote:
In post 946, Auro wrote:Farkran, can you summarize my reasoning for Klick cult and then demonstrate which parts of it are "bad"?
My perception of your scumread of klick is that you don't believe he would be forming a townbloc as town, he seems to be taking things too easy and he cannot get his things straight (i.e. inconsistency around the lurkers).

I don't think those are good reasons to scumread him - i don't see a cult agenda, he should be trying to identify the anarchist and push for a town mislynch, but there isn't a trace of that in any of his posts.
Why do you think you'd see his efforts to identify the anarchist here instead of the cult PT?
He's pretty blatantly been pushing for a "not me" mislynch - what do you mean? Shall I quote every post where he calls Conspire/Homura the best lynch, etc?
How do you hunt for the anarchist in the cult PT? The anarchist is not in the cult PT. There you can talk with your partner to share your thoughts about who is the anarchist, but you don't hunt for it. Imagine there are two masons and one scum to find - the masons would try to reaction test, ask questions, wagon people in the main thread, not in the mason PT.
In post 183, Farkran wrote:Best chances come from being recruited, sure, but if he isn't i think he'd rather be lynched d1

I'm trying to get into different mindset to have a better grasp of what their agenda would look like

Cult's best bet would be to mislynch anything that moves to gain win points (bussing is almost whiteflag worthy), anarchist tries to get recruited, town tries to pinpoint cult to the best of their possibilities
I recall someone asking how the agendas differ, this is how.
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Post Post #999 (isolation #99) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:41 am

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In post 976, GuyInFreezer wrote:Cult agenda would be laying down low trying their best to survive. They do want to survive longer for easier win after all.
RCE fits that agenda perfectly.
This is a projection of your own scumplay onto others - i also accidentally do it at times, but it's not a good scumhunt strategy. You should be trying to understand how other people would play their scumgame, not trying to identify your scumgame in other people's play.
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Post Post #1000 (isolation #100) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:46 am

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In post 982, Auro wrote:
In post 961, Farkran wrote:he should be trying to identify the anarchist and push for a town mislynch, but there
isn't a trace of that in any of his posts
.
You're correct in your interpretation of it; it was a rebuttal to the quoted.
Do you disagree?
I reread klick's ISO a couple times by now. I already gave my interpretation of how he went with his actions and votes.

He has been preying on Alyssa until he viewed her as town, then probed on Conspire. He's clearly trying to townhunt and push what doesn't fit with his townreads. He makes no attempt to be careful about other people's posts, he just tries to get townread and help town. This is not cult.
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Post Post #1002 (isolation #101) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:52 am

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In post 991, Auro wrote:And even then I have a problem with the overall statement itself - I don't see how a "cult agenda" is very different from a town one, and not pushing anyone while focusing on pure survival is culty anyway.
I guess this is where we disagree. Pure survival is not part of the cult agenda in this game. Insomnia's 997 goes a bit to the extreme describing it, and i disagree with that too, cult SHOULD try to survive but that's definitely not their main focus.

GIF has improved since Conspire, but it's true that his slot isn't top quality town to be honest.
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Post Post #1035 (isolation #102) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:27 am

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VOTE: GIF
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Post Post #1037 (isolation #103) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:38 am

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Klick is a bad lynch, i don't know how else to word it
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Post Post #1042 (isolation #104) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:57 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 1038, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 1037, Farkran wrote:Klick is a bad lynch, i don't know how else to word it
Why is GuyInFreezer a good lynch?
Part PoE, part Conspire. GIF might be trying to salvage the slot by pushing elsewhere, or trying to evaluate the game from a fresh mindset, i wouldn't know. But Conspire didn't do much in terms of solving and in my view GIF did nothing to redeem the slot. Nobody wants alyssa, and i don't want klick to be the plurality target.
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Post Post #1069 (isolation #105) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:33 am

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Uhm, interesting
In post 1045, GuyInFreezer wrote:If I wanted to salvage the slot I would've just voted Homura or Klick tbh
It's much harder to drive people to completely new wagon than just joining the pre-established wagon.
I mean this is what i was thinking too about GIF, and one of the reasons why i chose Alyssa over him, but i guess if GIF was really trying to salvage his slot he should be given more credit for his efforts than put him in the obvtown area

I don't think RCE is a particularly good lynch either though tbh
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Post Post #1070 (isolation #106) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:34 am

Post by Farkran »

In post 1068, Sujimichi wrote:
In post 1065, GuyInFreezer wrote:I'd be happier if y'all went to same conclusion as I did after reading his ISO again, but I'll take this too.
I can see what you a referring to, but my vote came after reviewing his ISO and seeing his return to voting Klick (), after just stating that he was looking in Conspire/Homura () and without providing the rationale for his return to Klick.
...what?
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Post Post #1073 (isolation #107) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:43 am

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RCE never voted anyone else than klick, and he never unvoted either since . That post you quoted does not seem a reconsideration of the klick slot, so i don't get how your push is based on RCE's "return" to klick when he never changed his mind about his highest scumread.
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Post Post #1086 (isolation #108) » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:19 am

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It really doesn't seem to me that RCE ever wanted to remove klick from his scumreads, at the very least. He might have been trying to reevaluate, but klick never got any higher than third highest scumread, best case scenario. Conbfias isn't inherently scummy.

I don't see a solid case against RCE, but i still get the impression that suji is not paying enough attention to the game ever since his very first posts. Perhaps this is a consequence of the new setup, scum!suji doesn't seem to be the distracted type.

I still think RCE isn't any >rand scum though
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Post Post #1115 (isolation #109) » Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:07 am

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Why are we lynching RCE again?
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Post Post #1129 (isolation #110) » Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:43 am

Post by Farkran »

I want Alyssa today, but i'll make a final d1 recap to see where common ground is

TOWN
Klick
Auro
insomnia


Ame
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Suji


GIF
Alyssa

SCUM

color-coded to who i'd like to lynch, who i can compromise on but not really want to, and who i'd never lynch today
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Post Post #1149 (isolation #111) » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:22 am

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In post 1132, Auro wrote:@Farkran, I'm gonna change your mind about Klick :P
Please look at his play in viewtopic.php?f=51&t=82266.
Throughout early game he looked obv town. He was scum. You're underestimating him.
I'm not implying klick is bad at scum or a bad player generally speaking, he seems competent enough to me to deserve all the respect i can give to somebody i have played with only a few times. I just think he's town in this particular game, or at least way less scummy than pretty much every other slot.

I skimmed the linked game, and he displayed a good scum performance, but it's also not similar to this one, metawise speaking. It's... just not my lynch for today, there are people i'd be more satisfied to lynch - one of those people is GIF even though i kinda really want Alyssa. I just cannot get over the scummy introduction and the later easy pushes.

GIF scumminess mostly come from Conspire, but i'm fine removing that slot on the offchance that i am wrong on alyssa. If i had to go by percentages... i'd say 40% sure on Alyssa scum, 20% GIF, the remaining 40% is shared between the remaining people according to my latest readlist. The numbers are obviously not helpful because they're subjective to how Farkran read this game, but i wanted to give perspective on how much i perceive scumminess in the slots i want to lynch.

pedit: aaaand... that's hammer.
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Post Post #1158 (isolation #112) » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:32 am

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Eh, maybe.

I don't see particularly STRONG reasons to townread homura, for instance - but she he has less cult equity than other slots. I didn't have particularly strong reasons to townread RCE either, but if there was a chance to get a better lynch i would have placed my bet on other people.

Anyways, that hammer didn't look good either, we'll see how d2 rolls out around that.
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Post Post #1188 (isolation #113) » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:58 am

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Is it day already?
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Post Post #1191 (isolation #114) » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:11 am

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...how does korina send the cult recruits?
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Post Post #1193 (isolation #115) » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:23 am

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nvm i misread and i thought this was the day phase

This is night, but we can talk.
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Post Post #1227 (isolation #116) » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:24 am

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Cheer up korina, and talk to us about the games you play. Most people here have an immense culture in videogames and/or anime and/or movies, books and anything in between.

And talk to us about what you write. I'd love to write something cool but i can only produce recap and summaries. I cannot do extended narrative, dialogues, scenery descriptions, etc. The only times i can get good results is when i dream - i dream some of the most fantastic, deep and articolate stories that i have ever heard from the people i know (not many, to be honest).

Also i can't draw for shit.
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Post Post #1237 (isolation #117) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:15 am

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Minecraft, best spent 20 euros of my life. I bought it around 2010 i think, and i spent on it more time than i ever did on any other game. I've played it for a couple months last summer, tried Thaumcraft and AE2 too. It was me and a couple of friends, everyone took care of a specific mod and we ended up with an automatic sorting/crafting machine that could produce almost literally everything as long as we could produce thaumcraft essences, which come out in abudance from water, dirt, stone and iron by crafting them into buckets, etc.

Before the digital stash we had a room like 9x9 chunks made of silos, with automatic sorting from Buildcraft pipes. I made the projects for that, it was a complete mess but also fun to distribute all the pipes logistically throughout the house without ruining the living rooms. Ah, minecraft... i wish the baseline would implement so much more. I love the exploration, the biomes, the mining - but more than everything, i love planning as a building and urban architect. Several years ago i played on a minecraft MMO server and i got to be the mayor of a small city. I planned the roads, residential areas, commercial areas, farming and herding/monstertraps, then got my citizens to build everything. Then we built the highways and rails to the other cities... amazing. One of the best times of my life wrt videogaming. I wish it didn't end so soon, unfortunately when you get to endgame there's not much else to do in minecraft.

Aside from that i've recently finished Witcher 3, played Bloodstained, re-played dangaronpa 1to3, Ace Attorney 1to3, God of War, Tropico 6 and i'm now alternating between the Nonary Games with friends, and Aoe2:DE.

I used to play pokemon up to NDS, then gave up on the more recent ones. I played pokemon go back when it was popular (2016?). Never played Animal Crossing, but i heard about it when i played Stardew Valley and i think i might like it.
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Post Post #1268 (isolation #118) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:51 pm

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In post 1248, Jingle wrote:Farkran, anarchist, has been recruited. Korina, Cult leader and RCEnigma, cultist, have been killed by an unstable recruit.

The town and anarchist teams win the game!
You're welcome town :cop:
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Post Post #1269 (isolation #119) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:54 pm

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In post 1267, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:and here I'm wondering whether farkran really thought I was cult or if it was some sort of ploy
I was sincere all the time, my bad :oops:

At least on a conscious level i was, my main goal was getting recruited, not guessing who the cult was. I knew it was going to be too hard for me if i had to.
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Post Post #1270 (isolation #120) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:56 pm

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In post 1260, Michael Scott wrote:I think Farkran would be a "try-hard" regardless of his alignment/role
This is true btw, never expect me to not try hard, it will never happen
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Post Post #1271 (isolation #121) » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:05 am

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In post 1265, Korina wrote:Also, it certainly was a lot of fun to talk to you Auro/Fark. I enjoyed it a lot.
Me too! Any time, guys.
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Post Post #1275 (isolation #122) » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:12 am

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In post 6, Jingle wrote:Farkran is exactly wrong on who he wants to lynch. It’s directly beneficial to lynch town to both of his wincons. Lynching town reduces the pool he’s guessing from, which is not as good as lynching all of the cultists, but still decent. More importantly, it increases his odds of being recruited.

If there’s 3 town lynches, Farkran has a 1/4 on n3 to be recruited. If there are 3 cult lynches he has a 1/7 on n3, recruitment wise.

tl;dr, anarchist wants any non anarchist lynch with a bias towards repeatedly lynching the same alignment.
True enough, although my win conditions were kinda exclusive with each other. Lynching cult makes it easier to guess who's cult, lynching town increases my chances of being recruited. All in all i didn't particularly care about who was lynched, to be honest, but i hunted cult in order to appear like town.
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Post Post #1277 (isolation #123) » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:29 am

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This setup was fun though, i felt it was pretty balanced, albeit very short. Worst possible lynch for town is exactly the anarchist, whereas the cult should try hard to identify him. The anarchist itself cares about both, it's cool.
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Post Post #1278 (isolation #124) » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:31 am

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GIF wrote:I haven't felt this salty over a game of mafia for years.
I will use the anger that this game gives me to keep me awake for overnight dnd session.
Omegalols
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