Open 776: Korina is a Cultist

[Klick]

VOTE: Farkran
Has like +++ cultist equity which is as much as we can hope for D1 in this setup.

[Klick]

I would like to form something similar to a townbloc with Chemist, Slaxx and Auro
Pls /confirm your participation publically

PEdit: the initial gambit of 'lol I'm cultist' is more likely to happen if you are actually recruited N1 than if you aren't.

[Klick]

lol really?

you culted me n0?

Oh shit yeah

VOTE: Alyssa The Lamb

[Klick]

Not really

[Klick]

I don't think Korina recruits Chemist N0
Auro's first post nearly made me spit out my coke
Drixx looked obvtown idk.

[Klick]

No one should read a single post Korina makes.

Taking applications for a replacement for Drixx in the townbloc

[Klick]

I would accept Klick/Drixx/Auro/Farkran for the time being

Thoughts from Auro and Farkran?

[Klick]

Excellent. If Farkran agrees then I think we can progress from here towards finding a good lynch for today

[Klick]

If Drixx agrees then I'd be fine with that. Main thing is that everyone needs to agree with everyone in the townbloc.

[Klick]

Suji, I am very much looking forward to playing a proper standard game with you where I'm town
But this is not a typical Mafia game, and I'd argue it's not even a Mafia game

I wanted a replacement for Slaxx because he didn't seem interested, but now he does so I'm back into it. I'm still not interested in a Chemist lynch but he's a hangup for Drixx so I'll reconsider.

[Klick]

Awesome. Klick/Auro/Drixx/Farkran. Suji and Chemist as maybes.
I won't be lynching any of Auro/Drixx/Farkran.

[Klick]

bzzt try again

PEdit beat me to it

[Klick]

I take this game ridiculously easy if I'm lucky enough to get recruited N0.

[Klick]

I'm fine with RCEtown

[Klick]

VOTE: Conspire

[Klick]

Why klick cultist?

pedit: i hate you all i can't get anything first in this game

Felt like the pop in that you had +++ cult equity was bad. Being voted doesn't make you cultist and the vote seemed like a pile on.

The way they said it makes it seem like they read the game up to that point in order to have something behind that read but the next two posts are back tracking and suggest they didn't actually read.
Like the second post is making the statement cultist is more likely to make a cult claim than town is and post 3 is backtracking to an ank scumread because of their opening post.

It seemed like they had to first establish that it's scummy behavior in order to retroactively apply it to ank, or they would have just voted ank in the first place.

This seems very convoluted
Like I'm slightly insulted that you think scum!Klick would have that thought process

Yes I confused Alyssa with Farkran. I saw something on another post that got me jumbled irt who made the cult claim

[Klick]

Can we call Korina's cult ability the Korinavirus

[Klick]

It both reduces the potential pool of candidates to lynch (which is a minor negative for the Cultist) and decreases the likelihood of the Cultist being lynched (which is strong positive for the Cultist).

This is interesting - I'd strongly disagree and say it boosts our odds of a cult lynch today significantly. What's the logic there?

[Klick]

I am assuming the Cultist would place themselves within the "townbloc" and that the "townbloc" would not lynch within themselves. This would remove, or significantly decrease the likelihood of, the Cultist from being a potential lynch on Day 1.

Ohhh you answer that.
This is assuming that the cultist has any say in whether they get into the townbloc though, no?

[Klick]

Looooool not sure why I called Slaxx Drixx all game until now?

[Klick]

Who we voting team
I still think Conspire is a good vote but I'm fine with Alyssa too

[Klick]

There is also the possibility that it backfires and you are read as the Cultist for it, but given that probability argument that exists, that seems unlikely to occur.

Less than 1/10 unlikely?

Consider the fact that the people I plucked out of thin air for my townbloc now seem to be getting widely townread, while people are on the whole more wary about me.
Do you think the creation of the townbloc has been overall positive for the gamestate?

[Klick]

Auro is kicked from the townbloc
Who wants to replace him?

[Klick]

Congrats Alyssa your new town bloc member!!

[Klick]

It's literally just Conspire and nothing they've posted since they've been voted up has changed my mind.

[Klick]

Suji probably isn't scum no. I got townvibes from something Alyssa did earlier (and she is now part of the townbloc so)

[Klick]

Auro, I'm willing to do gambits, but I'm not this silly
If I were cult this game would be ez win.
Meanwhile there's pretty clear town motivation in my play if you think about it. I thought you were doing the same thing I was.

[Klick]

I can't actually remember right this second but I'll go find it

PEdit: that's a pretty good list, I'm basically down to Homura/Conspire and Conspire is actively scummy

[Klick]

Chemist1422

Farkran

Korina

Sujimichi
Auro

Homura
Conspire

Alyssa the Lamb
Slaxx, replacing The Allfather

RCEnigma

Klick

Oh yeah
This readslist at this time felt right and realistic and like it'd easily come from a town mindset
PEdit: Chemist doesn't replace out of the clut slot, and that last post is good

[Klick]

Auro, read my posts through the lens of someone who knows they have a very slim chance of winning this game
I think you're reading me and going 'yeah I can see how Klick would want to do this to not get lynched'
But just because scum motivation exists doesn't mean it is the answer, or that town motivation doesn't exist

[Klick]

If I were cult I wouldn't have attracted attention, I'd have just played the game out and won
And I know you think that's exactly what I'd say as cult, but the WIFOM literally just isn't worth it for me - it turns this conversation into more of a 50/50 on what you decide I am rather than an 89/11

I literally had the thought earlier that this setup was more like Survivor than Mafia - you have a very accurate read on my approach but with the wrong conclusion

[Klick]

If I get lynched today I have to rely on back-to-back scum lynches in the next two days and that is basically just a loss.

[Klick]

I legit think Conspire has the highest odds of flipping scum here.
Homura's a decent shot too.

You/RCE/Suji/Farkran have all towntold pretty hard. Drixx and Alyssa don't feel scummy either at this point. insomnia's posts have been pretty good and I don't think Chemist flakes out of the lone scum slot.

[Klick]

I truly think that the strategy that gives any townie the highest odds of winning today is forming a 4-5 person townbloc and refusing to lynch outside of it at any point.
I'm satisfied with Slaxx/Alyssa/Farkran (if Slaxx and Farkran are fine with Alyssa). I'm open to alternatives.

[Klick]

My initial vote on Conspire was literally because they voted Farkran who was in the townbloc, and the Alyssa wagon was getting stale.

It stuck largely because their tone in response to getting pressure comes off as standoffish. They feel like they're trying to do exactly what they should do to look like a good towny and not get lynched. They asked 'why are you voting me', didn't follow up when they got ignored (because that would attract more attention/be 'defensive'), and they keep giving these neutral inoffensive takes on the game.
It's largely a gut/tone thing but it doesn't feel like they drew town here.

[Klick]

That and everyone else is town

[Klick]

Alyssa join us !

[Klick]

Fair, Suji is a smart cookie

[Klick]

@Suji what kind of cookie are you?
This is an important question

[Klick]

Oh Chemist siteflaked? I didn't realise

Insomnia's townie post was the post before my PoE, and Chemist replaced out before that

[Klick]

Like, congrats, you've shown that my progression exists

[Klick]

lol I'm sorry that was unnecessarily rude. Apparently I'm in a mood and it has nothing to do with this game.

[Klick]

Wait Chemist literally /inned to a game 6 hours ago he didn't siteflake

[Klick]

Not cult PoE :

Alyssa the sacrificial lamb
Klick
Auro
Sujimichi
insomnia
RCEnigma

Cult PoE:

Homura
Farkran (probably thread spewed at this point although that's probably a bad take so i'm keeping it here.)
Slaxx
Conspire

This was a good post

[Klick]

UNVOTE:

[Klick]

I really struggle to see people replacing out of positions that are practically autowins tbh.

[Klick]

VOTE: Homura

[Klick]

It's a progression that a townie would have in this circumstance.

Also there are like 6 townreads and limiting your options isn't good for cult, especially when you're one of the hot topic slots of discussion
Meanwhile, town would do it because they believe it and want to solve

[Klick]

Maybe it's just how I play scum, but in my earlier scum games I always thought having a lot of townreads would be an awesome idea until I realised that I was artificially limiting my influence on the gamestate

[Klick]

Fark what are your thoughts on the replace-out? Just NAI?

[Klick]

whoever plays to a wincon that they don't have yet is breaking site rules

or should be considered as breaking the rules at least. they're game throwing. it's literally the same thing.

Fwiw I think this is untrue based on the most reasonable interpretation of Rule 9 of the Site Rules: 'Play to win the game.'
Doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to play to town wincon though.

[Klick]

I think a lurker recruit is a pretty solid N0 recruit for exactly that reason - it's WIFOM

[Klick]

I don't think Korina recruits Chemist N0

Why didn't you think that?

For basically the reasons Farkran gave.
It was decent enough reasoning for the initial townbloc.

[Klick]

My theory on homura is that korina wouldn't recruit a player who has a reputation of lurking. This also applies to Chemist, and i think insomnia consolidated that.

Chemist gets mislynched a lot and it has a lot to do with lurking. If you want someone who won't get lynched then Chemist/Homura aren't the initially intuitive choices.

[Klick]

This seems rather simple in concept - why are you probing on it?

[Klick]

It was decent enough reasoning for the initial townbloc.

[Klick]

Literally ignore every single one of Korina's posts

[Klick]

I had the same feeling about myself early on, he kept quoting a lot of my posts

[Klick]

I had the same feeling about myself early on, he kept quoting a lot of my posts

And what do you think that implies?

That I posted a lot early on

[Klick]

It was decent enough reasoning for the initial townbloc.

This doesn't square with "

pretty solid

N0 recruit" to me.
That factor should hold independent of the game since it was done N0.
If it had enough weight to townbloc someone then, it should have some weight now too - if you genuinely believed it I don't think you'd be dismissive of it to that extent.

It does have some weight
It doesn't make someone flat-out town
I can think its a towntell without thinking it clears Homura (or Chemist) as town
And Homura is scum via PoE

[Klick]

I think you really want to catch me in something if I'm scum here Auro
You're reaching a bit.

[Klick]

I can't actually tell? Maybe that I was reading Korina's posts more than I let on. I've read quote names but when I see Korina's avatar/name next to the post I just skip to the next one.

Actually yeah that's a towntell in this circumstance that I didn't realise was there. If I were scum I definitely would be reading Korina's posts in some capacity.

[Klick]

To let him know if he's making me look bad or implicating others, and to help him try and disrupt town.

[Klick]

Btw, game aside, everything alright? You were in an off-mood, no? Better now?

Oh sorry I missed this. I'm fine, just a lot going on lately.

[Klick]

Fark Alyssa can't be the lynch
She's in the townbloc!

[Klick]

I'd love to have Auro in the townbloc but he thinks I'm scum

I think your top five townreads are all solid. Why RCE/Suji below Homura?

[Klick]

I do think there's some credit to that like I said earlier, and he'd have to think about someone who he actually thinks will survive 2-3 days in this game and even considering WIFOM that's not a totally safe bet. Still not really a clear though, more of a flat towntell than a clear.
But why are RCE/Suji lower? Are they just mostly null for you?

[Klick]

Auro, I'm willing to do gambits, but I'm not this silly
If I were cult this game would be ez win.

Meanwhile there's pretty clear town motivation in my play if you think about it

. I thought you were doing the same thing I was.

This appeal -- especially the bolded -- feels scummy.

So why did you think this Auro? Why did you think this was likely to come from cult-Klick instead of town-Klick?

[Klick]

If I'd read your last post there Auro I probably would have waited for you to get an answer first lol.

[Klick]

viewtopic.php?p=11279402#p11279402

Tbh I think this is transparently my town game and I'm surprised you of all people don't see it.

[Klick]

That was to my literal IRL partner tbf but the point still stands
I know I was scum in Masons and Mafia but the stuff about me liking self-meta as a scumhunting tool was legit.

[Klick]

I think the person most qualified to get a read from someone's posts is usually the person herself.

[Klick]

I've just gotten a bit of understanding of where your scumread is coming from.
If you think about the setup we're playing in I think you'll understand why the 'town motivation' distinction is there.

[Klick]

Yes

[Klick]

It's more like a bunch of people have towntold and you haven't really outside of that. Korina might not have been likely to pick you, but you're not doing anything to inspire confidence in that not being the case.
Though if I'm honest with myself you do feel like the easy answer at this point and I've probably skipped some steps in arriving at the conclusion that you're scum. I might reevaluate which townreads I'm actually confident in in a bit and see what I think.

[Klick]

Why now, then?

[Klick]

He's pretty blatantly been pushing for a "not me"

mis

lynch

Ftfy

[Klick]

Though I've pretty explicitly not been pushing for, say, Alyssa/RCE, both of whom are hot wagons and have been significant for some time

[Klick]

Like what does that even mean Auro? If you break down that argument into its parts you're literally just saying 'Klick wants someone lynched'
Which isn't AI until you add 'mis-' in front of it

[Klick]

RCE is a name I've seen more often than a few others and while some people townread him enough others seem to scumread him
Regardless, Alyssa is a valid counterpoint to your point

I disagree with both of your extremes - there is clearly an element of survivalism in my play, but I wouldn't say I'm just looking for any lynch that isn't me - I have preferences, and those align with legitimate reads on the gamestate, which is the difference between me being scum and town here.
I don't think I'm pushing particularly hard for my opinion (your interpretation), but I clearly have one and am expressing it regardless of its strength (what seems to be Fark's point).

[Klick]

I don't see how a "cult agenda" is very different from a town one,

Where does your scumread on me come from, then?

[Klick]

What I'm confused about is how you can have a scumread at all that isn't derived from perceiving cult agenda
I don't think I could convince you to vote someone else for a multitude of reasons. Primarily I don't have a solid scumread at the moment.

[Klick]

I always assume players I'm unfamiliar with have strong town/scum games. I'm interested in the meta-townread if you want to expand on that.

I played several times with suji and i read his scumgame (the game that made him a nomination). This suji looks more like the town!suji i know than the scum!suji in that other game. His attitude is more like... asking himself questions rather than giving other people answers, if you know what i mean?

The sample size is small though, and suji is not an easy read under normal circumstances.

I get what you mean, the pool to sort from fmpov is :
Farkran
Suji
Conspire
Klick
Homura
Slaxxx


Of those I'm highest on farkran/suji as town
Slaxxx right behind


Klick by virtue of just having content.

Conspire/homura

Conspire has posted but I dont know what about. Nothing has stuck so far.

RCE I think it's worth noting that our reads were practically identical at this point in time, and that tends to be town-indicitave.
Your scumread on me feels empty and potentially dated.

[Klick]

I think Auro is more likely to be Town than you are to be Town, so I would rather vote with Auro than with you.

Why are these the only two options?
I think Auro is very likely town as well. I don't think he's right here

What's your read on GIFslot?

[Klick]

VOTE: Sujimichi

[Klick]

A GIF vote is a me vote, as GIF isn't on my wagon and will join it to save himself unless someone from my wagon comes off.
Suji is the best bet from my wagon.

[Klick]

A GIF vote is a me vote, as GIF isn't on my wagon and will join it to save himself unless someone from my wagon comes off.
Suji is the best bet from my wagon.

I actually openly advocated that I be lynched over you so

I believe you would only follow through with this if you were town, meaning the outcome would still be a town lynch regardless

[Klick]

VOTE: RCEnigma

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick
Sigh.

Fwiw I'd have totally switched over to GIF as scum when you switched to RCE for the plurality advantage.

[Klick]

No one's at L-1, and Alyssa was already voting no one

[Klick]

Not cult PoE :

Alyssa the sacrificial lamb
Klick
Auro
Sujimichi
insomnia
RCEnigma

Cult PoE:

Homura
Farkran (probably thread spewed at this point although that's probably a bad take so i'm keeping it here.)
Slaxx
Conspire

This was a good post

Our conversation ended as of this post. I assumed you saw that it was consistent at that point - apparently not?

[Klick]

I can't actually remember right this second but I'll go find it

PEdit: that's a pretty good list, I'm basically down to Homura/Conspire and Conspire is actively scummy

@RCE: I think it was pretty clear from this post that I liked insomnia's readlist.
Even disregarding that, it seems weird to me that you were pushing on that specific point. What's the assumed scum motivation in completely making up a post I liked of insomnia's to justify a townread? Or was it just questioning something you didn't understand and you didn't see it as scum-indicative? Basically, why do you scumread me?

[Klick]

It wasn't bolded or in vote tags.

[Klick]

GIF is a bad lynch.
L-1

[Klick]

:thonk:

[Klick]

It seems optimal to say absolutely nothing in this phase