Open 776: Korina is a Cultist

[Auro]

i don't see a cult agenda

Describe a cult agenda and how it would differ from town agenda, please.

[GuyInFreezer]

Cult agenda would be laying down low trying their best to survive. They do want to survive longer for easier win after all.
RCE fits that agenda perfectly.

[GuyInFreezer]

Heck Homura has 1/3 of RCE posts and yet contributed +300 of what RCE did.
(Normally I'd say more than twice but I do recognize that 2 x 0 = 0 so)

[GuyInFreezer]

Gut says Alyssa ain't it either.
I may be biased on saying this because I'm kinda set on my scumread in a game when there is currently only one scum exist.

[Klick]

He's pretty blatantly been pushing for a "not me"

mis

lynch

Ftfy

[Klick]

Though I've pretty explicitly not been pushing for, say, Alyssa/RCE, both of whom are hot wagons and have been significant for some time

[Klick]

Like what does that even mean Auro? If you break down that argument into its parts you're literally just saying 'Klick wants someone lynched'
Which isn't AI until you add 'mis-' in front of it

[Auro]

he should be trying to identify the anarchist and push for a town mislynch, but there

isn't a trace of that in any of his posts

.

You're correct in your interpretation of it; it was a rebuttal to the quoted.
Do you disagree?

[Auro]

When was RCE ever a "hot wagon" lol only one slot is pushing him.
Btw @GIF, RCE is obvtown and I don't remember the reasons

[insomnia]

I don't know whether I should be scum reading Farkran for his logic.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

My stance this game is that it's getting boring

[Auro]

Thought about it, and nah

[insomnia]

Thought about it, and nah

Why not?

[Auro]

gut

[Klick]

RCE is a name I've seen more often than a few others and while some people townread him enough others seem to scumread him
Regardless, Alyssa is a valid counterpoint to your point

I disagree with both of your extremes - there is clearly an element of survivalism in my play, but I wouldn't say I'm just looking for any lynch that isn't me - I have preferences, and those align with legitimate reads on the gamestate, which is the difference between me being scum and town here.
I don't think I'm pushing particularly hard for my opinion (your interpretation), but I clearly have one and am expressing it regardless of its strength (what seems to be Fark's point).

[Auro]

I simply think you're pushing on your reads hard enough that saying "there's no trace of it" is false.

[Auro]

And even then I have a problem with the overall statement itself - I don't see how a "cult agenda" is very different from a town one, and not pushing anyone while focusing on pure survival is culty anyway.

[Klick]

I don't see how a "cult agenda" is very different from a town one,

Where does your scumread on me come from, then?

[Auro]

Basic "agenda" is to keep yourself from getting lynched and look towny in either case. I've explained my scumread before?

[Auro]

Sell me on a better slot to lynch, Klick, and if I'm convinced I'll go there.

[Klick]

What I'm confused about is how you can have a scumread at all that isn't derived from perceiving cult agenda
I don't think I could convince you to vote someone else for a multitude of reasons. Primarily I don't have a solid scumread at the moment.

[insomnia]

Sell me on a better slot to lynch, Klick, and if I'm convinced I'll go there.

GIF.

[insomnia]

Farkran, can you summarize my reasoning for Klick cult and then demonstrate which parts of it are "bad"?

My perception of your scumread of klick is that you don't believe he would be forming a townbloc as town, he seems to be taking things too easy and he cannot get his things straight (i.e. inconsistency around the lurkers).

I don't think those are good reasons to scumread him - i don't see a cult agenda, he should be trying to identify the anarchist and push for a town mislynch, but there isn't a trace of that in any of his posts.

Why do you think you'd see his efforts to identify the anarchist here instead of the cult PT?
He's pretty blatantly been pushing for a "not me" mislynch - what do you mean? Shall I quote every post where he calls Conspire/Homura the best lynch, etc?

This is not AI at all. Actually, it actually refutes the cult agenda, because they mostly likely win anyway, even if they're lynched. A town would be more frustrated at being lynched here than a cult would. A cult knows they're culted and will most likely win, and it's on Korina's recruiting process whether the game keeps going well or not. A cult would much rather be lynched because that way, if they suggest a target and it turns out to be the antichrist, they're the sole reason they lose.

I don't agree with this read like at all.

Cult don't care if they die. They still most likely win, and Korina is forced to recruit anyway. It's all on Korina to decide the outcome of a game, it's literally just who he picks, it's a minesweeper game. You pick the bomb - antichrist - you lose, and Korina has the ultimate choice over that matter.

I'd actually argue that town are more likely to forcefully fight against their lynch, because they are definitely losing the game and are losing their chance of getting culted into a win.

On the other hand, GIF doesn't care. He said he's lazy, he's most likely not going to do any work, and asks for a deadline extension anyway. He uses laziness as an alignment indicative, even though he did spend time to try and hunt, or at least, going through the motions. Once pressed, he diminished his own contribution to hipfired reads that don't mean anything, although he was technically looking for scum - hence, he wanted to appear like town. That was his goal. He didn't come out with a cult, he achieved what he wanted, an entrance in this game by appearing to do townie things, going through the motions, and the actual outcome of his analysis doesn't matter, it doesn't need to come to a conclusion, we just need to be assured that he's done something.

Saying "Read my hunting as coming from a lazy PoV" is the equivalent to revoking the "you don't have any actual scum" PoV, while maintaining the idea that he was actually hunting. He wasn't. He just wanted to appear like he was. He doesn't care who scum is.

[Farkran]

Farkran, can you summarize my reasoning for Klick cult and then demonstrate which parts of it are "bad"?

My perception of your scumread of klick is that you don't believe he would be forming a townbloc as town, he seems to be taking things too easy and he cannot get his things straight (i.e. inconsistency around the lurkers).

I don't think those are good reasons to scumread him - i don't see a cult agenda, he should be trying to identify the anarchist and push for a town mislynch, but there isn't a trace of that in any of his posts.

A.) You would have to know wagons are on predominantly town to discern if cult is pushing for a town mislynch.
2.) Cult have a pt they can hunt anarchist in? I don't see what good it would do for that to be an in thread priority.
π.) You're assuming town won't get themselves lynched and cult has to do it. Which isn't true.

Imo inconsistency is two parts: one being fluidity of options in case they find themselves backed into a corner and two is failure to produce genuine belief in a read.

Also now that I think about it three would be prepping for the night 1 recruit to avoid having to hard switch on a read already established.

Farkran, can you summarize my reasoning for Klick cult and then demonstrate which parts of it are "bad"?

My perception of your scumread of klick is that you don't believe he would be forming a townbloc as town, he seems to be taking things too easy and he cannot get his things straight (i.e. inconsistency around the lurkers).

I don't think those are good reasons to scumread him - i don't see a cult agenda, he should be trying to identify the anarchist and push for a town mislynch, but there isn't a trace of that in any of his posts.

Why do you think you'd see his efforts to identify the anarchist here instead of the cult PT?
He's pretty blatantly been pushing for a "not me" mislynch - what do you mean? Shall I quote every post where he calls Conspire/Homura the best lynch, etc?

How do you hunt for the anarchist in the cult PT? The anarchist is not in the cult PT. There you can talk with your partner to share your thoughts about who is the anarchist, but you don't hunt for it. Imagine there are two masons and one scum to find - the masons would try to reaction test, ask questions, wagon people in the main thread, not in the mason PT.

Best chances come from being recruited, sure, but if he isn't i think he'd rather be lynched d1

I'm trying to get into different mindset to have a better grasp of what their agenda would look like

Cult's best bet would be to mislynch anything that moves to gain win points (bussing is almost whiteflag worthy), anarchist tries to get recruited, town tries to pinpoint cult to the best of their possibilities

I recall someone asking how the agendas differ, this is how.

[Farkran]

Cult agenda would be laying down low trying their best to survive. They do want to survive longer for easier win after all.
RCE fits that agenda perfectly.

This is a projection of your own scumplay onto others - i also accidentally do it at times, but it's not a good scumhunt strategy. You should be trying to understand how other people would play their scumgame, not trying to identify your scumgame in other people's play.