Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

Begins January 2nd, 2020
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Post Post #4525 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:34 am

Post by Krazy »

"Mountainous with 2 ics" isn't mountainous :P

Also neighbors becoming ics means there's like 4 ics since an ic is created every scum flip

Scum having no control over their nightkills in a mountainous is a good way to describe a mountainous that is a)heavily town favored and b)not fun for scum, with b being more important
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Post Post #4526 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:35 am

Post by Krazy »

Scum can't really pocket hoodies with no possibility of ss hoods and the high probability of s/t hoods as a result
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Post Post #4527 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:41 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

Yeah when I realized if all the town claimed, scum had no countermeasures from the start, that's why I was super against it at the beginning so scum could have a more fun time. Then we lynched scum and my motivation for a fun game went away. Such is life.
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Post Post #4528 (ISO) » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:27 am

Post by BBmolla »

I mean in theory you could have it so scum could be neighbors if it’s that big of an issue
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Post Post #4529 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:52 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

Why do they need countermeasures? Who cares if everyone knows who's neighbors with who. I don't get it. Ya'll sound like you dont like the setup, which is fine, but a different issue.
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Post Post #4530 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:00 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

The neighbor mechanic is basically an extra reward if town hang the scum in the pair, then they know the other has to be town. If everyone claims their neighbors day 1 then if scum get lynched first town gets more ICs. Basically scum get lynched once they lose, it's mountainous in town's favor.
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Post Post #4531 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:00 am

Post by Nancy Drew 39 »

In post 4527, Elsa Jay wrote:Yeah when I realized if all the town claimed, scum had no countermeasures from the start, that's why I was super against it at the beginning so scum could have a more fun time. Then we lynched scum and my motivation for a fun game went away. Such is life.
You convinced me claiming helped scum.
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Post Post #4532 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:12 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

Yeah town me didn't want the doc revealed instantly, but a dead neutral inspection reveals that it was probably still the best option if the town is competent in finding scum to reveal first.
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Post Post #4533 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:54 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

If town is competent in finding scum then the neighborhoods are irrelevant in the first place. The argument doesnt track. Theres a reason 10v3 mountainous would be ridiculously scumsided.
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Post Post #4534 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:57 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

But it's not when you begin with 2 people who are confirmed town and lynching scum gives you another townie. But I'll be like a broken record eventually so...

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Post Post #4535 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:03 am

Post by Krazy »

why is anyone talking about mountainous when this isn't even kinda mountainous lol
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Post Post #4536 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:29 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

Mountainous in the term of "fucking hard".
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Post Post #4537 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:40 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

In post 4535, Krazy wrote:why is anyone talking about mountainous when this isn't even kinda mountainous lol
I'll break this down in terms of balance. It is somewhat comparable because of the lack of town investigative.

10v3 mountainous is obviously scumsided, so someone smart made White Flag, which is still scumsided even though you only need to kill 2 of the 3 scum.

14v3 mountainous is considered roughly balanced I believe, though generally unfun.

This is 12v3, which is in the middle. If one more lynch makes it roughly balanced, and one less lynch makes it super scumsided, what's the middle ground? I'd argue maybe get rid of PO, so toss in claimable IC (doctor), which can maybe save a kill (still not relevant) or maybe get outed at some point and just get killed. the neighbor mechanic is pro scum as it allows mafia to pocket town and influence, but anti as it can create ICs if mafia misplay and die before their neighbor. rewards good play and makes the game less boring than mountainous.

You can choose to not like the setup. I'm not sure if people think its townsided because this was a stomp, but this was a stomp because town played well (and really I don't think scum played poorly, just less well), not because of the setup, so its a pretty bad sample. I personally like the concept.
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Post Post #4538 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:16 am

Post by Nancy Drew 39 »

I had fun, eventhough I almost got pocketed by the entire scumteam. :lol:
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We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
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Post Post #4539 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:20 am

Post by BBmolla »

If I were to propose a setup for next run I’d just cut the PO and see how it goes
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Post Post #4540 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:58 am

Post by Krazy »

I can choose and I do choose not to like the setup :3

For team mafia people are not signing up for a specific setup. I would not have touched this with a ten foot pole in the open queue. If you're doing a setup where people are not choosing the player list OR the setup, it is much better if the setup is good. Frankly this setup just isn't good. Imbalanced or not it has built in snowballing and 2 stealth activated ics at game start. It's not fun for scum.

I mean partly I think the whole premise of team mafia is kinda just non functional, I'm not sure how much of that was being in a gametype and role I both don't like in a setup I don't like but certainly none of those helped :P
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Post Post #4541 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:01 pm

Post by Krazy »

this would be playable if it was flipless maybe
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Post Post #4542 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:03 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Team mafia is just a terrible game archetype honestly
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #4543 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:05 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

team mafia is just an excuse to play a game with stakes
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Post Post #4544 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:06 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

and hopefully have everyone else tryhard tbh
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Post Post #4545 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:09 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

i mean

the quality of the games is not there to have a game with stakes
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #4546 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:14 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

i thought the open was pretty quality in terms of gameplay even if i feel like it was already tilted in our favour /shrug
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Post Post #4547 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:39 pm

Post by Eddie Cane »

both team mafia's i've played are the most fun i've had on MS. they're inherently townsided, but vast majority people don't actually read all 4 games and/or work with their team significantly, so its less significant. and i think this was a pretty high quality game, agreed.
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Post Post #4548 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:04 pm

Post by Amrun »

Agreed with above two posts.
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Post Post #4549 (ISO) » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:27 pm

Post by Nancy Drew 39 »

In post 4548, Amrun wrote:Agreed with above two posts.
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We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~the worst
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Nancy is pretty heavenly ngl
~CheekyTeeky
*******
Nancy-scum feels like a hot knife slicing through butter. Nancy-town feels like a magnifying glass in the sun glaring down at an insect.
~Taly
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