TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[panthaleon]

Finally. I'm giong to ego this for later

[panthaleon]

Who’s pant?

I am new Vex Vience

[panthaleon]

I looked away for an hour and there were ten pages. Neat.

I don't buy the push on kuribo right now. It just looks like nonsense to me.

Also for fun all of the notes from the previous player in this slot are handwritten in a notebook that was then photographed and uploaded. As near as I can tell, they had a pool so I'm going to park my vote on one of these folks for now.

VOTE: omnom

If anyone can give me a SHORT tl;dr off whose scummy or what for the first two days is relevant, I'm happy to have somewhere to start looking.

[panthaleon]

Are we really going to do this again

[panthaleon]

DV if you think nom is scum, why are you voting kuribo?

You're not scum again are you >:(

[panthaleon]

I mean it's early enough I'm also happy to lynch FB to make the day phase suck less with less trolling. After my last large theme with him, I do skip most of what he posts.

Though I'm still interested in seeing DV respond to my post first

[panthaleon]

Imagine replacing into a game, spamming and trolling, and then complaining the game isn't interesting enough for your time

[panthaleon]

DV if you think nom is scum, why are you voting kuribo?

You're not scum again are you >:(

DV if you think nom is scum, why are you voting kuribo?

DV I'm trying to delve deep into your heart here and then you go and make another vote I don't understand it's frankly quite rude

I read a few of your links and they're not great but nothing super damning imo (though I'm going to read them again tonight when I'm not on mobile), there's a few posts around there that felt pretty genuine though (particularly nom mentioning she was laughing at creature coming in basically the second he was hammered)

The vote on kuribo was not the first time I had indicated suspicion of him, and in responding to gamma I did have some doubt on nom being scum.

I've also felt pretty low in confidence in my reads and so with my team being quite passionate about kuribo and nom being scum I wanted to push there.

Yeah but if you think nom is scum, why did you choose to vote kuribo instead. You could have joined a wagon with someone you town read.

[panthaleon]

Sure whatever I'll claim. Maybe it'll spur some discussion.

My Neighborhood has the ability to role block the group ability of another Neighborhood. We vote on a player, and then that player's Neighborhood is blocked. We picked Davesaz both nights, though tbh I'm not really sure the deeper motivations because I replace in more or less as night ended.

At this time I will not be revealing who the other members of my Neighborhood are, since I think our ability is good if Neighborhoods start whittling away and town-oriented group PRs flip over to scum. I don't want them to be potential targets.

[panthaleon]

DV who's starting to worry me because he's becoming erratic

What is worrying about that to you exactly?

You wanted no part of a wagon on someone that you couldn't even be bothered to claim was town. You looked at that wagon on an extremely scummy player (volxen), said you didn't have any reason not to lynch it, and then wouldn't put your vote where your mouth was. It makes me wonder why you'd avoid a wagon on someone you said you couldn't make a town case for. You can excuse not voting voxlen all you want by saying you thought a replacement would offer insight (how'd that work out) but I still maintain that if you're THAT sure a slot is scum, it won't offer insight. Ever. I've been making this stand for years. Hell, I've had people hand me the hammer on replacements I'm scumreading because they know I won't hesitate to save the mod the trouble.

You can say all you want that you'd been building to your vote on me for a while, but your posts don't indicate that either.

You think nom is scum, but you're not voting there either.

You've said you don't think I "care" about the game. Have you played with me since 2012?! I don't fucking pretend to have stronger opinions than I really have, dude. And if I have some apathy, have you considered I've already explained that this game is complete dogshit for me? Do I really need to go on another multi-paragraph rant about why I hate being alive in this shit?

Bottom line: You're playing it safe with your votes. You were confident enough in nom scum to counterwagon off volxen (who you didn't townread) and yet today you're trying to stay off a nom wagon.

So yeah, dude, I'd say your behavior is worrying.

I don’t think I have played with you since 2012.

And I never actually had a scumread on volxen. He’d made hardly any posts so it would make sense that I would want to wait for more info before lynching that slot.

My suspicion of you was to a large degree influenced by discussion with my team and I’m pretty sure I’ve indicated that.

I also think you’ve taken a vote to mean more than it actually does. I don’t need to be super confident in a nom scumread to vote nom Day 2. I haven’t had much confidence in any scumreads to be honest.

UNVOTE: Kuribo
VOTE: Nom

I’ve decided that this is where I want to go. I will have to talk with my team about the kuribo read because I do think he could be town while they were strongly scumreading him. Watch this space.

My team, however, is aligned on nom being scum and I think that they’re justification used to vote me is further evidence of that. I think that nom has been looking for an excuse to suspect me for a while and the reads contradiction thing is... super weak? There was not even that much change in my reads and I think it would be expected by town that reads would change. This feels like scum deciding that they want to be on my wagon or want to “suspect” me and have been searching for a reason to justify it. It does not feel like town considering a slot’s posts and forming a read based on that.

Gamma, you’ve said that no one is trying to convince anyone of nom being scum but I have pretty consistently throughout the game been talking about why nom is scum.

—

Dave, I’m interested in why you haven’t used our hood to try and form your read on me. I still think you’re probably town but I’d like to hear from you about it.

I also really do need justification from Maria/kuribo about why roleblocking an unknown hood’s ability is considered a good idea. Isn’t it most likely that this ability will be mostly town-controlled?

DV can you please explain your town read on kuribo and reconcile it with your team's scum read on kuribo? This would go a long way in making me think that you're not scum.

[panthaleon]

I can't decide between omnom, FB, DEB, and DV, Maria

[panthaleon]

do you agree that if there's scum in this hood, all the town abstaining does nothing but give the scum in the hood free rein to vote remove whoever they want?

You're legit told if you get turned voteless right? If people use your power then they get outted.

I can't decide between omnom, FB, DEB, and DV, Maria

I like FB/DEB vote wise. DV has had his good moments and I still think if FB is scum nom isn't.

I was going to vote DEB but it looks like you already have a wagon working.

Can you tell me why nom is not scum tho?

PEDIT:
There are just so many notes and they're very hard to read.

[panthaleon]

Was nom ever pressured for it? Or was she just a name that was thrown around?

Like I can definitely imagine scum blocking a wagon from coalescing, and her just slipping to the background. I also will not be reading the FOUR HUNDRED POSTS that make up her iso.

[panthaleon]

No but like a wagon wagon, or like a nonstarter wagon?

[panthaleon]

Maybe A50 disagrees

[panthaleon]

Yes, but why Dave specifically? I still don't understand.

Forget about the voteless hood. I want to know why Dave in particular.

You'll have to talk to Maria and kuribo. Vex left notes that Dave was also scummy, so that was good enough for me.

@Panthaleon: He wants to know what Oka is writing in your PT/Discord, he's pretty certain Oka is staying caught up.

They have not! But I guess I'll pass your interest along.

[panthaleon]

God I thought I was on the right page and then there were more pages

[panthaleon]

Oka says they weren't paying attention, but that omnom and chennisdan are on their shit list

Also apparently EC means Eddie Cane and he's good. Neat.

[panthaleon]

Yeah the assumption was a scum doublevoter is ridiculously powerful, so odds were dece we were all town

[panthaleon]

I kind of want them to be scum together but I’m not sure if that’s actually possible here. Maybe not.

If they are not scum together, which one is town?

[panthaleon]

I kind of want them to be scum together but I’m not sure if that’s actually possible here. Maybe not.

If they are not scum together, which one is town?

Firebringer

Can you tell me how firebringer is town? I'm having trouble distinguishing anything from the trolling

[panthaleon]

HEY NOM have you considered that actually answering people's questions instead of ignoring them might help people actually read you better

and also that you ignoring questions and only talking about your scumreads and not your townreads when this is the 3rd time I've asked you about it is KIND OF GRATING.

yes you have mentioned your opinions on DV & FB recently so I've crossed that out but please give me your townreads at the moment.

DV Ank FB is looking like a promising pool. Let's discuss those.

yes let's and also answer what I asked you this morning please

Hey nomnom, what are your thoughts on DEB and DeasVail?

I wouldn't mind hearing some other more detailed thoughts from you too (if X is scum Y is a likely scumbuddy or who you think looks particularly town at the moment) but I gotta go now so I can't give you more specifics than that of what I think would be cool to hear from you atm.

I would lynch both of DV and FB, DV for reasons I've already said and FB because (as someone else mentioned or at least implied something similar to recently) GiF is a good player but his day 1 play was garrrrrrrrrrbaaaaaage

you are fine with DV getting lynched, why is that your opinion on him? also what are your thoughts on why you want FB dead

, and what are your thoughts on dave in general?

DO ITTT. LYNCH NOMNommmmm

Hey bud what's going on over there?

[panthaleon]

Imagine being obv town unironically

Also DV for serious the fuck are you doing? You're usually better than this.

[panthaleon]

VOTE: nomnomnom
Here, I'll help you out.

._ .

[panthaleon]

Imagine being obv town unironically

Also DV for serious the fuck are you doing? You're usually better than this.

I don’t really understand.

I’m having fun with the game and my role, sure. But I have a scumread on nom, I’ve explained reasons for my scumread. And I am pushing it.

What more do you expect from me?

I dunno I'm trying to get a read on you and you feel off. Your tone feels inconsistent

[panthaleon]

What does that mean

[panthaleon]

To be honest I feel like I've hit the point of no return and that anything I will say will be considered scummy because I'm not throwing ultra certain reads left and right so yeah.

I mean instead of moping about, you could leave some good reads for if you flip town. That would be the townie thing to do here.

Or you can mope and whine until you try to get people off your reason, which is the scummy thing to do.

[panthaleon]

K I'm not moving off of nom.

You're welcome to leave reads for us to look at if you're town, or you can just mope your way to death.

[panthaleon]

Nom does it bother you at all that you're just throwing a tantrum instead of doing anything to help the town?

[panthaleon]

I still see a person who is more interesting in saving their skin than providing information.

PEDIT
If nom flips scum, my next people in interested in reading more are DV and fb.

[panthaleon]

I do expect you to provide reads of the remaining players because that's what townies do. It provides a solid foundation on which the rest of the totem can build a better understanding of other player alignments.

If you're disinterested in helping the town, then you're right that you should probably be hammered. It is a shame if you actually do turn out to be town.

[panthaleon]

can you repeat the question?

What are your thoughts on dave and who are your townreads & why?

Honestly I have none.

I honestly don't have many townreads which should be concerning but I like Maria, A50, Kuribo, EP.

Is it just this post? Or am I missing the post you're referring to?

[panthaleon]

Look ank I appreciate where you're coming from, but I'm not getting off of nom. Even if they're town aligned, they're dead weight that will be a liability at end game. And if they're scum, I'm not ok letting them cry a wagon off of them.

If you want to talk about DV tomorrow, I will be more than happy to though. I agree that his votes onto kuribo and then back into nom looked very bad.

[panthaleon]

I am mostly disinterested in meta data because I play this game once every several months when someone asks me to help them out.

Specifically though nothing nom had some had been useful, and I don't foresee them suddenly becoming useful once they get to live another day. They have articulated a disinterest in being helpful and I don't see their reads and activity improving.

They should accept their played scummy, leave a list of reads for the town, and then eat the rope like a helpful VT.

[panthaleon]

Neat. Maybe if you demonstrate some of those skills now, I'll sixteen my position

[panthaleon]

You're welcome to whichever opinions your would like. I'm going to continue doing whatever the fuck I'm doing right now

[panthaleon]

lmao

[panthaleon]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81078

Do you mean the one other game I've played in the last year again as a favor for a friend where I got annoyed by low effort trolling and then was night killed for being obv town?

[panthaleon]

I thought you were talking about my meta.

[panthaleon]

Or maybe if I misunderstood your post, you could unambiguate your pronoun instead of being an ass about it

[panthaleon]

What is a deep wolf

[panthaleon]

Idk the nom one just fell apart so now we get to play deadline scramble

I still don't vibe with a Maria vote tbh

[panthaleon]

DV gets what is up

I'm having irl difficulties rn so I'm going to disengaged. I still think nom is the lynch, but I guess I'll consolidate at deadline.

Very disinterested in voting Maria. Potentially interested in the rest.

[panthaleon]

I would like to point out nom has suspicion of people suspicious of her, and now she's not doing much of anything except promising she'll look closer later.

Her strat has still been to get heat off herself and that's about it.

[panthaleon]

Nomnom continues to have reads that only exist in the context of eBay they think of her slot, and had lost all her punchiness now that her wagon isn't dominant.

While I'm suspicious of DV from earlier in not convinced he's scum.

And he probably thinks I'm town because he's known me for a very very long time and I'm usually extremely obviously town. His entire team is "people who have known me for almost a decade and played Mafia with me online and in person."

[panthaleon]

What they think of her slot*

Has lost all her punchiness*

I'm not convinced*

[panthaleon]

Nothing about nom's behavior indicates to me someone playing to work towards the benefit of the town or of our mutual success. I see a player pushing for herself and her safety, and has done nothing with the breath of fresh air she was given except cast suspicion on those who still have the audacity to vote her.

The deadline is tomorrow. Nom has failed to do anything with her time, so I strongly advocate for a Lynch on her. I am suspicious of DV but I can say least see angles of his behavior as coming from town.

[panthaleon]

I think the people that are scums on my wagons are the one that are still on it, or anyone after Ank/DEB because I feel those two unvotes in particular were extremely townie, the rest is up for debate

Ah who could forget the classic scum tactic of "everyone gets on the same wagon and stays on it." Classic move

[panthaleon]

FB you should join the nomnom wagon. it's very cool and very in

[panthaleon]

D

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DV I figured out why nomnom might be less enthusiastic about killing firebringer

[panthaleon]

This is a dumb vote

[panthaleon]

I'm going to pout, sit on nom, hammer DV if someone needs to by deadline, and then spend tomorrow tunneling on nom until she, like, does anything.

[panthaleon]

The DV lynch is dumb. The hammer was dumb. This game is dumb.

[panthaleon]

I wish I was scum. I keep joining games as a favor and getting stuck in as town.

MS has changed man. Everything is about jacking off your ego and trying to single handedly solve the game instead of collaborating and communicating.

[panthaleon]

I wish I was scum. I keep joining games as a favor and getting stuck in as town.

MS has changed man. Everything is about jacking off your ego and trying to single handedly solve the game instead of collaborating and communicating.

It sucks that I got lynched but it might be what the game needed. Who knows? Tomorrow is another day

But what if half the reason I joined was because I was exciting to play with you.

[panthaleon]

VOTE: Nomnom

Parking this here to start with. Hey nom play for serious please. Of you are town, tell me who scum is

[panthaleon]

I mean we can FoS for the second Lynch and point nom if she happens to flip town

[panthaleon]

After her behavior yesterday, I am not looking anywhere other than nom.

As a happy coincidence, there's also a vengeful kill. If she's scum, we get rid of a liability. If she's town, we get a second Lynch. It's a win win win

[panthaleon]

I cannot tell who is scum and who is just aimlessly not playing the game.

I do not like the way either a50 or gamma joined this wagon

[panthaleon]

Ank oka wants to know why your team wanted DV dead and why nom dodged the Lynch yesterday.

[panthaleon]

If you really rely on me to make a good shot here you've lost your mind

I mean you're not making a shot alone. You're doing it with the consensus of the town, if you are town.

[panthaleon]

But really does NOBODY else look at nom suddenly becoming vengeful because of a scum action and think 'Oh, that's pretty clearly b/c nom is scum and they want to give her a vengeful on the way out'

Hey tell me more about this statement

[panthaleon]

I would like Gamma to tell me more about that pls

[panthaleon]

Gamma spikes in suspiciousness

Hey nom obligatory "do anything." You can't just mope your way through another day.

[panthaleon]

It makes me mad because as a player I am way better when the spotlight isn't on me and I can take the time to analyze discussions, I genuinely cannot read people when it's me that's on the spotlight. It's really terrible.

The spotlight went off you and things didn't get any better.

Please concisely list out the playerlist and your reads on everyone. You spent a lot of yesterday complaining that you couldn't give reads because you had too much pressure on you. I have the utmost faith that you were able to take advantage of the fact that your reason fell apart to calm yourself. And I'm certain that voting DV who you claimed to be scum reading forever only for him to flip town helped you revaluate your reads.

[panthaleon]

Hey nom what if, and hear me out on this one, you list out your goddamn reads

[panthaleon]

This is asinine. Is being this unhelpful just NAI for you?

[panthaleon]

I'm not going to reward petulant whining by doing nom's work for her. Someone who cared about winning with the town would do more than mope about how town is dumb for lynching her and how she's not going to do any work.

Obviously if nom is scum, giving her a list of people to kill just communicates details to scum anyway.

I would suggest that since nom is an actually useless slot, we put a second vote up and FoS properly for the second Lynch. This at least gives us the ability to turn a useless slot into a double day.

[panthaleon]

What if you tried to contribute to the discussion and explained who YOU thought was town or scum.

I mean I'm pretty sure you're just going to throw a fit and shoot me on the way out anyway because that's on par with your engagement so far.

[panthaleon]

Well to be honest I'd really like to make it to LYLO, or at least get further in the game if I end up getting lynched so I have less chances to be wrong. I think lynching me now is a strategic blunder .

Spoken like a true townie

[panthaleon]

Nom: there's no point to me playing because I'm going to get lynched anyway

Nom: why do you keep pushing me you should stop talking about me

Nom: you guys definitely shouldn't lynch me it's a mistake

Thinking emoji

[panthaleon]

I cannot think of a single alignment that would be determined to deprive town of information if they are going to die, and who only changes their tune if they are going to given another day

[panthaleon]

I did mention in my hood that I thought I wanted to go FL yesterday just because a lot of what he says is just plain odd.

what's odd about it and why is it more likely to come from scum than town in your opinion?

I think I wouldn't do justice to this question if I was to answer it now, so let me come back to this question when I have a clear mind

<literally nothing about flavor leaf between here>

just discuss your reads with other ppl, but I guess it's hard to discuss reads when you have none and you're only generating useless discussion

oh hey how bout that

So are you going to, like, address this, or are you going to continue to be a waste of space

[panthaleon]

VOTE: DEB

My neighborhood has talked me down or whatever

[panthaleon]

FTR I didn't like the way gamma or DEB joined the nom wagon

[panthaleon]

Ok but ur takes are really bad FL. I don't feel any desire to talk to you about my position

[panthaleon]

Ok but ur takes are really bad FL. I don't feel any desire to talk to you about my position

Says the one voting obvtownNomnom

I am?

[panthaleon]

Ok but ur takes are really bad FL. I don't feel any desire to talk to you about my position

Also, this implies he knows I’m town.

I do?

[panthaleon]

VOTE: Panth

Lmao

[panthaleon]

VOTE: DEB

My neighborhood has talked me down or whatever

I spoke to my neighborhood and they agree that you are a useless waste of a slot, but that lynching you is not a good idea. So I got off it

[panthaleon]

Lmao I expected you to gun me down. You have played like shit, so gunning me down would just be par for the course

[panthaleon]

What if you tried to contribute to the discussion and explained who YOU thought was town or scum.

I mean I'm pretty sure you're just going to throw a fit and shoot me on the way out anyway because that's on par with your engagement so far.

Why didn't I unvote you here if I was worried about getting shot

[panthaleon]

Wow you're so good at avoiding death and killing slots that are not part of the informed minority. Wow how are you so good at playing this game.

The idea of me being on your radar to shoot clearly did not just occur to me. Why didn't I unvote you then?

[panthaleon]

@panth - I'd enjoy it if panth dialed back the toxicity a bit.

Scumreading someone (ie. nom) shouldn't be a free pass to treat them poorly... even if they're not playing to your expectations.

Wow we're counting this as toxicity? Y'all wouldn't have lasted a single game back in my day. Rabble rabble get off my lawn.

[panthaleon]

@panth - I'd enjoy it if panth dialed back the toxicity a bit.

Scumreading someone (ie. nom) shouldn't be a free pass to treat them poorly... even if they're not playing to your expectations.

Wow we're counting this as toxicity? Y'all wouldn't have lasted a single game back in my day. Rabble rabble get off my lawn.

Yes, I would count excessive hostility and rudeness as toxicity. I'm not really concerned what the games were like back in your day as long as its unacceptable today.

Please don't take it personally. Just trying to keep things civil.

If nom want to stop being called a useless slot, she is welcome to do something useful. I do not consider anything I've don't to be executively rude or hostile

[panthaleon]

Don't forget the bad flash wagon on DV

[panthaleon]

Wow that was like 20 pages of actual nothing

[panthaleon]

I don't really know what's happening but at this time I'm not sure that I buy kuribo rage as coming from a scum slot. I think he might just be having an off game and raging about it.

For the people wanting to lynch nom, I thought we had come to a pretty clear consensus that she is playing terribly as town.

Ank is concerning me because they seem to skip between defeatist spiraling and confidence. I'm not really sure what the angle is there

[panthaleon]

Look at a certain point people flopping their ego around and shitposting all kinda blur into a hazy mass

[panthaleon]

PART I: PREVIOUS WAGONS/LYNCHES

I've mentioned multiple times in the past that the Volxen wagon was forced through bizarrely fast while every other wagon that has ever existed in this game has been bizarrely lethargic. Who was on the wagon?

Creature

(9): Almost50,

nomnomnom

,

Gammagooey

, MariaR,

kuribo

, EspressoPatronum,

davesaz

,

Flavor Leaf

,

chennisden

nomnomnom

(4): Vex Vience, Ankamius,

DeasVail

,

Volpe14

Not Voting (3): Dr Easy Bake,

Creature

, GuyInFreezer

LYNCH HAS BEEN REACHED.

Literally everybody on the scumteam. Unless you believe that the scumteam is Panthaleon + myself + Dr Easy Bake + Firebringer,

scum are always on this wagon.

With how different this wagon was from literally every other wagon in the game,

it is absolutely insane to assume that scum had absolutely nothing to do with this wagon.

Ank why is gamma orange

Also can you clarify why you didn't make yourself green?

[panthaleon]

The only thing is that I kinda have difficulty believing that DEB is town given that he barely exists and it's sketchy about it

[panthaleon]

God DEB is so bad. Ank can you walk me through your town read on him?

[panthaleon]

Hi friends. I know I haven't done much this day phase and I apologize for that. I recently started some meds and a side effect of that I've felt very chill and don't have the same drive to yell at people on an internet forum. That and I started something else that has really monopolized my attention. These aren't good excuses, but I figure I can be honest. I'm pulling up the playerlist now

Ankamius - reading all of the posts she has made leaves me feeling like she would be in a weird position if she were scum. I feel like she had a lot of equity built yesterday about getting the game moving, and the turning on her doesn't feel super natural. Like unless she's scum with, like, DEB or nom or something useless like that, why wouldn't she push easy mislynch bait instead of picking a fight with kuribo? There are plenty of easier slots she could have tried to move towards, so scum just feels unlikely.

Dr Easy Bake - literally who? Should probably be vigged or have been policy lynched three days ago

Flavor Leaf - despite having a weird hard on for wanting me to be scum, idk the egoism and sells involvement feels like I could buy it coming from a town perspective. Really into everything circling him and his slot, so he stays in tentative "town I guess"

davesaz - I don't really know who this is. Why are you voting me?

MariaR - last night neither of my neighborhood people talked to me at all, and they haven't used the neighborhood at all today either. My town reads on the both of them have far degraded.

Gammagooey - idk can be town I guess. I don't really see why scum would try to stopgap a wagon on me, since I could easily have just been killed like DV was.

kuribo - my town read on kuribo had severely degraded. Similar to Maria, he wasn't around in the neighborhood last night and hasn't really been there at all today. I don't really buy the rage since I haven't seen him try to push anyone with it. I feel like some point in the list few weeks he would try to flex 12 years of prowess to actually wagon someone, and I don't understand why that hasn't happened.

Firebringer - I guess shitposting town? I have literal no idea

EspressoPatronum - I got some decent town vibes I guess

Almost50 - I could vibe scum if it weren't for the weird "I will not use a vig shot." That's really dumb

nomnomnom - useless town or scum playing like useless town. Who knows?

[panthaleon]

I can buy scum in kuribo, Maria, Deb, and nom I guess?

Second tier would be a50 or Dave (depending on the alignments of kuribo and Maria)

[panthaleon]

I'm not shading anything. I'm just saying that the neighborhood was really quiet last night and today, and the quietness of the neighborhood is something that had been weighing on me.

PEDIT. Which three

[panthaleon]

Tbf I woke up like half an hour ago and figured I should participate instead of not. I also vibe bad with the attacks on you. Like I guess you could be scum, but I really feel like scum would be more comfortable just letting the town aimlessly drift.

PEDIT
Mr the kuribo I know that your cat was missing and I'm sorry that happened. That doesn't really change how the game has felt

[panthaleon]

My dude can we maybe take a breather. This isn't intended to be a personal slight or anything, and your rage send disproportionate to the claim at hand

[panthaleon]

See what feels like is happening here is you're taking authentic frustration from a shitty real life situation, and pointing it into the game. I do not doubt that the cat meant a lot to you, but that's not really the bulk of what I was commenting on

[panthaleon]

I am not going to participate with this rage. I have mentioned your rage send reactive and, at times, inauthentic or contrived. I don't see any productivity in getting into a shouting match.

What do you think of Maria?

[panthaleon]

If you don't take a step back, kuribo, I am going to need to stop interacting with you. I do not like the level of aggression you are putting here, and I don't really like the attacks on my personal character.

[panthaleon]

My dudes I'm not scum. But like w/e this game hasn't been fun, the last time I posted I got screamed down by kuribo, and I'm coming off of frustrating real life nonsense.

VOTE: kuribo

This game had been a shameful display of incomprehensibly poor and anti town play. Whoever you town folks are, I am disappointed.

[panthaleon]

you're bitching about me tunneling when:

1. you've been up my ass endlessly for 2 full days now
2. almost50 fucking fell apart at the seams at the slightest hint that I wasn't townreading him
3. nomnomnom fell apart at the pressure on her and has done nothing since
4. panth and gamma spent a lot of the last two days up nom's ass endlessly

you can fuck off with that argument

At least we agree panth can go fuck himself

:/

[panthaleon]

A guy I used to play with often took a list of everyone's reads to see who floated to the top.

If everyone could humour me for a bit, can you please fill in your top 3 scumreads? It doesn't necessarily have to be a 3-team solve... just 3 ppl who you scumread independently.

Ankamius -
Dr Easy Bake -
Flavor Leaf -
davesaz -
panthaleon -
MariaR -
Gammagooey -
kuribo -
Firebringer -
EspressoPatronum - nom/Ank/MariaR
Almost50 -
nomnomnom -

DEB, Nom, kuribo

[panthaleon]

Yeah I feel like kuribo might be cool now. Presumably we'll make our peace in the post game

[panthaleon]

Pocketing kuribo by voting him would be a wild move from me tbh

[panthaleon]

Wow a lot of posts happened

I'm having a difficult time understanding the scum read on FL. Take with a grain of salt that I usually town read people that scum read me, but the severe arrogance and demanding the spotlight don't read to me like scum trying to close out the game. It reads as town upset no one is listening to him.

Kuribo gets to be promoted back up to probably town. If he wanted to mislynch me, it would have been pretty easy for him to paint me worse in the neighborhood and he didn't.

If FL is town, that indicates gamma as town which is p cool I guess.

I still feel like DEB should have died ages ago. A50 still bothers me from when they just have their vote to kuribo.

Can someone remind me what Dave's group is?

[panthaleon]

Like ability

[panthaleon]

Can someone remind me what exactly Dave's neighborhood ability is/was and who was in it?

[panthaleon]

Looking at the neighborhood, Maria originally suggested blocking his group. I'm curious if that's because she knew what his group had

[panthaleon]

Kuribo/Panth arent S/S, someone’s pocketing the other.

So am I pocketing him by verbally abusing him to the point of him threatening to report me? Or is he pocketing me by calling me scum in a way that personally angered me?

Both. I don’t have the exact neighborhood stuff, obviously, but y’all came into this day phase all buddy buddy right after Maria died.

Which I guess is semi fair after a scum flip in the neighborhood.

It happened exactly as kuribo wrote it. We exchanged no additional words

Please explain which of us is pocketing the other tyia

[panthaleon]

Spoiler:

50- Maria says Vex townslipped but she can't elaborate without outting the hood.
51- Vex says that's fine.
52- Vex says he had intended to do it day one but was VLA
53- Maria doesn't like nom
54- Vex says nom is scummy
55- I say that nom's emotional outburst is town, the rest of the stuff is scummy but that I heavily consider the emotion more than anything else
56- I don't like EP asking for massclaim
57- Vex asks if nom's emotion was genuine. Agrees EP was scummy.
58- I say yes, I believe it was genuine and that scum faking emotion is actually extremely rare and easily noted. I complain about the length of day one, wishing people had actually been more emotional. I don't like EP's massclaim suggestion but it was interesting to note how people responded. Wishing people would stop trying to maximize mechanics.
59- panth says hi
60- I say hi
61- I discuss our night's roleblock. Mention we unanimously agreed dave was scummy and a good choice. Suggest doing it again since no one knew what ability he had and nobody complained about anything important being missing. I mention that I was townreading both Vex and Maria, partly because of our LMS ability and partly because I have other scummier people to worry about. I felt if either of them were scum, one of us would be dead because of the LMS ability.
62- Maria agrees with targeting dave.
63- panth complains about the length, asks if either of us are scumreading dave
64- Maria says yes
65- I also am scumreading dave
66- panth says dave is fine, notes we didn't block the NK
67- Maria corrects him that we can't block the NK, only their group ability
68- panth says whatever the rest of us do is fine
69- I'm annoyed with Firebringer and RC
70- Maria says she's voting where she is because FB is scum and annoying
71- I'm still pissed about being voteless, tell both of them that in no uncertain terms we're blocking that ability forever.
72- I ask about posting that we roleblocked dave. He hadn't claimed yet but he was obviously expecting something to happen.
73- I still don't think dave is town, but I also don't know who he's grouped with.
74- panth says dave doesn't need to know, but we can out it. Says we don't know what dave is claiming to have been blocked on. Suggests half-claiming.
75- I don't agree with fullclaiming. I don't trust dave, but I also don't feel it's a claim trap.
76- panth says fine, he'll out
77- I tell panth that if Dave questions the delay, just remind him that outting has other consequences and he needed to discuss it with the group
78- Maria questions if EP will think scum is in our hood
79- I agree with one of panth's in-game posts
80- panth asks if all mafia games nowadays are ego and bullshit
81- Maria says they are
82- panth doesn't like that
83- panth doesn't like this game
84- Maria asks what the fuck happened while she was gone
85- Maria referring to the DV wagon apparently
86- panth calls the wagon stupid, wants nom to die
87- Maria doesn't like nom's behavior
88- Maria doesn't think nom is scum. Doesn't like people using the vengeful as an excuse to lynch nom. Doesn't want nom lynched just because of vengeful.
89- panth wants every player in the game to die, can't read anyone.
90- Maria isn't townreading many people
91- I ask the mod about our roleblock being effective against LMS abilities. Mod PM'd me and replied no.
92- Maria says she'll keep pushing dave in case scum leaves him alive for being lynchable.
93- panth complains about nom being alive
94- Maria says she's explained her nom stance in thread
95- panth thinks the game sucks and everyone in it is a screaming egotist who relies on meta
96- Maria agrees
97- I agree that meta sucks, feel I contributed to site meta of screaming egotism
98- I start to wonder if I'm only townreading nom out of spite. Agree that I can see scummy behavior but that I'm not lynching a hard town read. Complain that it's hard sometimes for me to explain my reads because I read based on emotion and gut. Complain that current site meta makes reaction-reading hard.
99- I call dave town for being cagey about his results or lack thereof.
100- Maria agrees, wants to keep pretending to push him so scum doesn't NK him.
101- panth hates meta
102- Me too
103- I'm starting to think Ank is scum
104- Maria disagrees
105- I counter that EC is way more town than Ank
106- I still don't like Ank, ask if EC is capable of faking the goodposts
107- panth has never heard of EC
108- Maria says EC is capable of faking
109- I wonder if people townreading the EC posts are why Ank keeps posting so many of them
110- I explain to panth who EC is
111- panth starts thinking one of us is scum and that nom is town
112- Maria agrees that nom is town, wants to convince panth of her other reads
113- I complain about people on this site being idiots
114- I ask if Maria has any thoughts before her flip (this was after nom posted her vengekill)
115- Maria says panth isn't scum and doesn't want me to lynch him. Wants me to consult with my team.
116- I reply about Xtoxm thinking panth is scum. Mention that Pine called me a whiner. Mastina has been AWOL for weeks. Spouted vulgarity at pant.
117- Panth threatens to report me if I keep treating him like dirt
118- I tell him it's whatever, I'm still legit pissed, and explain why.
119- I complain that with a Maria scumflip, I'll actually have to go back and read her posts now
120- panth says he doesn't want to be in the game and has nothing to say to me.
121- I told him he wanted me to be nicer, and that's fine, that's what I'm doing. Agree I don't want to be here either.
122- I explain why this game is dogshit for me.
123- I told panth I was roleblocking Ank's group again
124- panth agreed

the end

I got u bro no worries

[panthaleon]

I'm kinda vibing with Dave scum tbh. This is weird af behavior, and I'm still not really over Maria suggesting Dave's group get roleblocked from the beginning

[panthaleon]

Nobody? Weird

Who's even left

[panthaleon]

Wow that Lynch pool is awful

I figure last scum is in one of Dave, a50, and fb

[panthaleon]

I mean people have failed to explain how kuribo and I could be scum, that that would be cool to sort out

I still think it's suspicious that Maria opened discussions about role blocking Dave's group. Given that he gives investigative powers, I feel like it's reasonable to think that might have had something to do with it.

A50 was still weird from giving his vote to kuribo for a day and generally not being around

And idk firebringer hasn't really done anything but shitpost

[panthaleon]

Why are kuribo or me scum?

[panthaleon]

I mean firebringer is the weakest scum vibe I could have for the whole getting removed from the neighborhood with nom thing.

kuribo you had thought dave was scummy for awhile. Is that still something you feel?

[panthaleon]

Also if someone did something to stop the kill, they should probably say something.

[panthaleon]

@panth: which member(s) of your team are reading the game still?

None of them. This game has been a trainwreck and they've largely shrugged it off since it looks like town is winning anyway.

@kuribo: One more time, please. Can you tell us how your hood ended up blocking the Inventors twice in a row? Oorc, No Maria proposed it and you agreed. Then on N2 Maria proposed it and... I don't remember which of you/panth supported it. Please be patient with me and gibe us your statement once more.

@pathL You can do the same if you like.

Night two I replaced in and just agreed to whatever. It's not a secret that I'd deferred to Maria and kuribo, and after Maria flipped I've just continued deferring to kuribo.

[panthaleon]

My favorite thing is when I flip town and people decide they're going to go after kuribo because one of us has to be scum.

If I'm scum, can you explain my play over the last few days and nights?

[panthaleon]

I mean like I'm not scum and there's no case that I am

Why did scum me pick a fight with nom after the scum team gave her a venge shot?

Why did scum me decide to get suspicious of my neighborhood and pick a fight with kuribo?

Why did scum me not kill kuribo to pick up the double vote from our LMS?

What about my game play had indicated that I am scum?

[panthaleon]

If I was scum and I had just given nom a venge shot, there's literally no reason for me to have picked a fight with her. That series of events does not make rational sense.

I had kuribo announce he was going to gut me both in public and in private. Why is he still alive? How does this make sense with me pocketing him? How does this make sense with me trying to set him up for a mislynch? Where is the scum motivation here?

Y'all are relying on bad PoE and trying to mechanically outguess a setup. You are going to vote me, I'm going to flip town, then you're going to vote kuribo and he's probably going to flip town.

This is prepping scum to make up for the fact that they've either stopped killing or been counterplayed each night

[panthaleon]

If I am scum with FL and haven't been eating much heat, why does he drop everything to bus me when instead there are easier votes to go after?

As scum, why do I try to randomly bus DEB?

[panthaleon]

Because I think it's suspicious that Maria's first instinct was to block his neighborhood! A neighborhood that dishes out investigative powers

[panthaleon]

I'm trying to figure out if Dave is town pushing a bad case or scum pushing a bad case.

Frankly I don't remember much of his play the last few days except he's been very revealing his results, which is weird. I think that was him

PEDIT
Nom's play was shit and I wanted to provoke her into actually doing anything

[panthaleon]

I thought nom was playing bad but couldn't tell if it was scum playing a dumb townie or just townie too deep in her ego to understand why people thought she was scummy.

[panthaleon]

Wow I put pressure on a person who was playing bad and when she didn't do anything I kept applying pressure.

Wow I am not confident in reads how scummy wow

I would look at you and ank. Y'all have vibed weird af to me.

[panthaleon]

No

[panthaleon]

To ank from okapoka whoever that is

They say it's WIFOM but wants you to think through why they wouldn't be coaching me better on how to scum game this

[panthaleon]

jjh had earlier remarked that the image of Vex' notes was added to igur almost 2 hours before the day started, and was posted about 15 minutes into the day, so he was wondering if it was first posted in the scum PT to verify it looked good enough.

This is the dumbest thing I've heard

And I thought you said your team wasn't reading this game.

They haven't reading the game. They have, however, been listening to me complain about it.

[panthaleon]

Apparently the delay in posting notes was because vex wanted to talk to UT to make sure they weren't breaking rules doing so

[panthaleon]

Oka mentioned this is something they did in the discord server our team is using

Tbh Vex's notes ended up to all be wrong anyway. I washed my hands of them after DV flipped town

[panthaleon]

If I am scum, why is kuribo still alive? Why am I not pushing him? Why does flavor leaf randomly start bussing?

How does anything that happened make sense

[panthaleon]

....yesterday? When he started pushing me?

[panthaleon]

Wait DEB died yesterday. The day before then.

Whenever FL was last alive he was pushing me. How can you have forgotten that.

[panthaleon]

You know what, i don’t care about the team.

I’m gonna stick with A50/Panth Scum/Scum, and then keep individual scum reads.

Please lynch Panth.

A50 has expressed his willingness to vote Panth as well. Call that bluff.

I’d rather y’all just vote Panth.

VOTE: Nomnom

?????????????????????

[panthaleon]

Why
did
FL
try
to
start
a
bus
on
me
if
we
are
both
scum

[panthaleon]

I'm so excited to flip town

And then kuribo will get lynched because there has to be a scum over here because PoE

And then he'll flip town and the PoE will have to be Firebringer

And then Firebringer will flip town and people will just be so confused how that was even possible.

[panthaleon]

There's still no case on me beyond 'well PoE and mechanics and blah blah blah'

I'm going to flip town and then people are going to just shrug about it

[panthaleon]

Ank why didn't I kill anyone the last two days

Why didn't I take my double vote for killing kuribo

Why did I get in a fight with FL

Why did I pick a fight with DEB

Why did I antagonize nom? How does that make sense if I just gave her a vengeshot

[panthaleon]

Ank is pushing a shitty case on me.

Dave has looked shady forever.

A50 is a non player.

But don't worry those three are all conf town so I must be wrong

[panthaleon]

Your case is so bad

I hope that you're scum

VOTE: Ank

There is no way you're this dense as town.

[panthaleon]

Imagine thinking that scum just decided to stop killing folks.

I miss when mafia was actually good.

[panthaleon]

I really hope that y'all vote kuribo and FB at this.

This town super deserves to lose.

[panthaleon]

Back in my day mafia wasn't just aimless egoist dick swinging where everyone wanted to be a king for the town and solve everything.

Instead I'm dealing with this shit.

I regret replacing into this

[panthaleon]

Lynch me then. I'm not participating in this anymore

Nothing I have done makes sense as scum, but no one cares

[panthaleon]

If you think I'm scum, vote me then

[panthaleon]

Then what do you think of the folks pushing me? If I'm not scum, who is?

[panthaleon]

@firebringer: why is kuribo scum?

@town: if firebringer is a scum/PoE read, why did he remove himself from his neighborhood?

[panthaleon]

Questions are from oka

[panthaleon]

My neighborhood talked me down from voting nom

That's always been what that means. I am very clearly talking to nom if you read the fucking surrounding context of those posts.

You can ask kuribo if you want.

[panthaleon]

Oka asked me to post the question

Are you actually going to read anything or do bad attempts at gotchas?

[panthaleon]

My neighborhood talked me down from voting nom

That's always been what that means. I am very clearly talking to nom if you read the fucking surrounding context of those posts.

You can ask kuribo if you want.

Hey look at this thing? That thing where you were confused about my posts?

[panthaleon]

They didn't.

I

was

talking

to

nom.

You

can

see

that

if

you

read

the

surrounding

posts.

[panthaleon]

Oka has more faith in you all and wants to continue asking questions before you lynch me so I'll just be kinda dumping them here

[panthaleon]

Oka wants to know why ank is still alive

Oka also wants a few days to continue speaking through me

[panthaleon]

Oka is interested in skitters reads

[panthaleon]

Oka wants a proper massclaim of roles and actions throughout the game

[panthaleon]

I guess never mind. They misunderstood our role block power

[panthaleon]

If you think I'm the last scum, why on earth would you refuse that information

[panthaleon]

Of course I don't want to read this hellscape game.

Oka says you look townie he hopes. He agrees that scum is probably between ank/dave/fb

[panthaleon]

More dave/ank than anyone else

[panthaleon]

Associatives, gamma looks town, he thinks you're town

[panthaleon]

Reading vote counts and scum ISOs

[panthaleon]

Oka agrees with me that gamma/fb is prob town core

[panthaleon]

Oka gave me this

Pants >>> Gamma >>> Fire >> A50, Kuribo >> Ank > Dave

[panthaleon]

Oka is probably right about Dave being more likely scum than ank

VOTE: Dave

[panthaleon]

I don't like the idea of FB leaning on RC.
Yes it's team mafia. It's absolutely not an excuse to not play the game yourself.

Good thing u don’t need to like it

Can we please PL this?

Lol

[panthaleon]

I don't like the idea of FB leaning on RC.
Yes it's team mafia. It's absolutely not an excuse to not play the game yourself.

Lol

[panthaleon]

@panth - why did you not like how I joined nom's wagon at the start of day...whatever it was when nom got lynched (4 probably?)
What did you like about Maria's posting early on?

I actually don't remember other than feeling like you were trying to play me. I wasn't really feeling like I was making a great case and people were looking for a way to use me for my wagon

Maria was nice and seemed Confident and that was good enough for me. Kuribo can confirm my biggest issue with the game was feeling like the people I like were scum and the people I didn't were just town pissing me off

[panthaleon]

Oka wants to know who Eddie Cane thinks is scum

[panthaleon]

The fact that I'm still alive indicates to me that the last scum is prob already on me. Like unless kuribo is going for that loooong con

[panthaleon]

Dave why are you throwing a fit? I'm the one at L-1. Not you.

[panthaleon]

I mean like if/when I'm hammered, the vote should really be on Dave. This behavior def doesn't read like frustrated townie imo

[panthaleon]

pretty sure his behavior rn isn't townie or scummie but a child acting out and should be ignored.

I'm 59 years old, and this post is being reported.

Lol

[panthaleon]

I would rather y'all lynch me than no lynch. That at least gives certainty going forward

Assuming that we don't just vote Dave for being kinda scummy and weird about it

[panthaleon]

It's important one is not horny on main

[panthaleon]

It can't be used in LyLo

[panthaleon]

I think it's very important that we set up all the next votes right now so that the scum player can ok the queue and we can lynch people in rapid succession

Oka wants to know if we have RC's reads yet. I don't think I've seen them

[panthaleon]

Dave why did fb remove himself from a neighborhood and give nom a vengeshot

PEDIT:
Like obviously not? Terrible hammer

[panthaleon]

I guess I look forward to seeing kuribo and fb for after me, and town somehow fucking up this LyLo

[panthaleon]

Remember that Dave had acted like scum, a50 and ank have been useless, and gamma prematurely hammered literally after we asked about reads from another player.

A50 and Ank your reads are awful. Rethink them

[panthaleon]

Good thing you hammered instead of getting those reads from firebringer first

[panthaleon]

No town is required to let him live until LyLo otherwise you're stupid

Haven't you read his posts

[panthaleon]

Wow u get two votes tomorrow kuribo

Sorry to hear ur going to die for it

[panthaleon]

My dude kuribo you could probably stand to take a chill pill. Maybe a chill pill and a half. I know I'm a bit limp wristed these days and my history from ye olden times contradicts my current position, but I think it's ok to play without raging and no holds barred fighting. Sincerely it made this game less fun and made me regret replacing in, and I can't imagine I'm the only one who has that response to this sort of nonsense.

Like on one hand it's just a game who cares, but on the other hand it's just a game with no stakes. Victory doesn't mean anything so it feels like there could be a few barriers of decorum.

[panthaleon]

(I'm publically posting because this is the sort of #thoughtprovoking content that I think people could stand to consider at large. Making another person's life more miserable to try to get them to crack under pressure is kinda shitty if you really think about it)

[panthaleon]

Ok my dude but you were scum though, and you and Maria both were largely absent from the PT and we both scum. Like there's a reasonable response to that and you elected to take it violently personally.

Being called out as Mafia is not an attack on your character. I know MS is kinda wack because we call it 'scum' but it's literally just a role. On the other hand, telling someone that they are not a decent person or are morally deficient for scum reading you is an attack on their character.

Like I'm sincerely not inviting an argument over what, at the end of the day didn't matter. I'm saying that regardless of how you might have construed what I said, your response was violent and personal, and like maybe don't do that again 'cause it's kinda shitty.

[panthaleon]

Like I mentioned, I'm not interested in litigating this. It's just food for thought.