Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Amrun]

And also to be perfectly clear, most of Nancy’s interactions with pops were awkward, so bob isn’t factually wrong.

I’m not convinced that makes Nancy scum, though. I think most scum of a certain caliber would avoid such an obvious thing. I want to re-read that.

but certainly means there is case to be answered. When i questioned pops she first tried to just dismiss my line of questioning before she had to answer it. and she flipped scum


All were getting from nancy is ate. She isnt trying to talk us through her action as i expect a towny would do. scum dont like it as when pops finaly answered it showed sure signs she was scum.

Nancy’s reaction is kind of what I expect regardless of her alignment. Maybe even town indicative.

[Amrun]

Wait, but Pine already knew Mastina’s thoughts. I’m confused. You think it was to promote a Krazy ML that Pine was killed because of Mastina?

I definitely do not agree with that.

[Amrun]

Why does 2. point away from bob? Isn’t it just irrelevant to bob?

[Amrun]

I still think my solve is likely right.

If it actually is Pops/unwind/Piss, I want freaking bragging rights when this is over.

But you just said your townread on Krazy slot was strengthened? I am really confused by your reads.

[Amrun]

I wouldn’t be opposed to lynching Krazy/unwind. Even if town that would give us a ton of info.

[Amrun]

Why S_S, DDL?

[Amrun]

Anyone down for hood claims now? We're talking about PoE soooo

I am not inherently against it. I've been mulling over whether it is worth outing the doc.

Kinda same

[Amrun]

I see what you mean, Eddie. But on the other hand, the doc is someone scum have to kill sooner rather than later as it's really bad for an IC to be alive close to endgame. So while doc hunting, which is a 1/2 to a 1/4 for them depending on whether scum are in any of the outed hoods, they could make in-optimal kills if they read a neutral/scummy player as the doc. We shouldn't give them the easy route of killing doc tonight and then killing whoever they please (towniest towns probably) in future nights.

But they aren’t doc hunting because they killed Pine.
Pants on head.

[Amrun]

My notes are terrible.

I know me Hectic.
Nancy Elsa.
Eddie and pops.

Who else?

bob and Pine

[Amrun]

I’m kinda digging it. I have a neighbor read I’ve been avoiding sharing.

I’m hesitant because it could backfire... but we are in a good position, and from my POV, the pool is very narrow. Narrowing it further basically locks this game up.

[Amrun]

Well, I didn’t think that post through. I suck.

[Amrun]

I was so careful about that day 1. Annoying.

Eddie, this doesn’t matter in any functional capacity, but I consider myself the primary pusher of the pops wagon.

[Amrun]

Neighbor w pisskop

Almost the entirety of my TR on pisskop comes from the hood.

[Amrun]

DDL is the doc! Yes! I already thought he was town, so my personal PoE doesn’t change at all, but I felt like he had mislynch potential.

So here is my actual pisskop read now that I can share it:

When pisskop first entered the game, I was worried he was buddying me because he (in thread) pinged an Elsa post I had already done the same to, without mentioning that I had talked about it first.

However, in the hood, he seemed openly suspicious of me but trying to sort. It wasn’t something that disqualified him from being scum, but it was not buddying.

What makes me think he’s more likely to be town than scum is overnight. I told him I wanted to post something overnight in case I died (which I never ended up doing out of laziness). He volunteered that he thinks Pine might be scum. I reveal that the “something” I wanted to post was actually a Pine case.

Then, Pine was NK.

I have a lot of towncred, in my opinion, that I planned to barter to try and lynch Pine today. I think scum pisskop would have capitalized on that. Skitter agrees with me, though does note that she traditionally is not great at reading pisskop.

[Amrun]

Does anyone really think pisskop is town?

I do, but I acknowledge that piss’ votes are bad as a whole, and that he is good scum who could fake the things I TR him for. I just wonder if he is faking them. Mostly I think he wouldn’t NK pine given our hood conversation but I could be wrong.

It’s a weaker townread but it does exist!

[Amrun]

Also my pick for T-T pairs are Amrun and pisskop and Titus/Hectic at this exact minute.

[Amrun]

I support any lynch in {NaCl, Elsa, unwnd}. A50 thinks Elsa is town so that’s my least preferred out of that pool.

I could maybe be convinced on {pisskop, Nancy, Hectic} but I would very much prefer to look outside of these.

[Amrun]

I support any lynch in {NaCl, Elsa, unwnd}. A50 thinks Elsa is town so that’s my least preferred out of that pool.

I could maybe be convinced on {pisskop, Nancy, Hectic} but I would very much prefer to look outside of these.

Oops bob needs to be in lynch pool

[Amrun]

I support any lynch in {NaCl, Elsa, unwnd}. A50 thinks Elsa is town so that’s my least preferred out of that pool.

I could maybe be convinced on {pisskop, Nancy, Hectic} but I would very much prefer to look outside of these.

Oops bob needs to be in lynch pool

I’m just going to redo this.

{NaCl, unwnd} preferred lynches
{bob, Elsa} ok lynches
{pisskop, Nancy, Hectic} I conditionally TR them but they’re in me PoE. Nancy is highest on this tier, pisskop lowest.

[Amrun]

Which means my vote is erroneous

VOTE: unwnd

[Amrun]

Anyways,

UNVOTE:

I don't know exactly who I want to kill today yet. If DDL has a strong opinion I'll sheep him. Still mulling.

DDL wants to kill S S. Please dont

[Amrun]

Pisskop, why is a compromise wagon bad?

If there’s anyone’s read on Nancy I think is BoPable, it’s Dannflor, IMO. For now I’m choosing to trust it but Nancy is in my PoE as explained prior.

[Amrun]

Pisskop, why is a compromise wagon bad?

If there’s anyone’s read on Nancy I think is BoPable, it’s Dannflor, IMO. For now I’m choosing to trust it but Nancy is in my PoE as explained prior.

Why? I really don’t understand this at all. People really need to metacheck me more.

Secondhand meta is garbage. I’m not interested in lynching right now, so let it go at that.


@Eddie: Eh, I’ve cooled off on bob. He’s in my PoE but I’m feeling less excited about it. I’m voting unwnd right now. NaCl just as good.

[Amrun]

I’m several pages behind but A50 thinks the PO should out and I think the idea has merit. Plz discuss.

[Amrun]

DDL wants to kill S S. Please dont

amrun whats your numbers on smarty-pants town right now

I’m still betting on S_S town but skitter is more sure than I am.

[Amrun]

Okay, so pops vs Eddie, I don't think outing the neighborhood makes Eddie scum. Like, I get that Eddie can do it if he's careless scum but pops' argument doesn't make sense since he can also do it if he's annoyed town and I don't see why pops is reading into it in that way. It feels forced.
I initially liked pops for her earlier play because it didn't feel like it was scum-her and I think I actually know how she is as scum, unlike most people here. But the vote on Eddie feels like a reach.

this is town enough that I have no interest in voting nacl today

This is a good post and I’m going to go with it as well.

[Amrun]

okapoka, eddie, ddl, pisskop, nancy
s_s, amrun
titus, unwnd, bob
nacl, elsa, hectic

Why am I higher than SS and Amrun?

I think you're most likely out of your scum range.

Any theories why Amrun still has me in her PoE, because I don’t believe she ever answered that? If you did Amrun, then please disregard but you seemed to be really set on keeping me in your PoE, even more so than Titus, it seems, eventhough she’s pushed me harder.

There have been things that struck me as town. However, my team finds you scummy.

Also, your stance on pops throughout the day was inconsistent. It definitely looks like an awkward bus. In fact, it’s SO awkward, it’s almost too awkward to be scum. There’s a reason you’re just on the top layer of my PoE; I have my eye on you, but I’m not at all convinced that you’re scum.

In addition, your progression on Krazy/unwnd today has made zero sense to me. I was asking you something expecting you to say you scumread him now, but you responded your TR was stronger than ever. Then a handful of posts later, you were scum reading him.

However, IIRC, you didn’t hop on Eddie when it would have been beneficial for scum to do so, especially since you were espousing a TR of pops at that time.

I’m really NOT interested in pursuing this. I would not prefer to lynch you today.

[Amrun]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself.

Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Could this possibly be why? @Amrun. Mastina has a much better BoP on Krazy/unwind slot, so I could also see that as a possible reason if unwind is scum here. What only gives me pause is Krazy saying Eddie owed him a “massive apology” but I only have experience with lurk/coast/hide scum!Krazy not AvP scum!Krazy.

It could be. I’m not really familiar with any of these players. That’s why Krazy slot was on my list (not the meta, but the Pine read itself). There is really obvious equity for Krazy slot in NK Pine if they were afraid of a doc on Eddie.

Are you softening on your Krazy town stance?

No, Pops flip and Eddie’s being IC and not tr unwind have actually strengthened it,

plus I could definitely see the motive in the Pine kill, because Mastina could give an accurate read on that slot.

Nancy, this is the post I’m talking about. I asked you point blank and your answers seem inconsistent.

[Amrun]

viewtopic.php?f=127&t=74684
Last TM, we killed scum d1 and d2, and then d3 Ginngie faked a guilty on a townie so we did not have a perfect game. Shall we break that record?

Elsa: Ank thinks this is her town game.
Piss: Dann thinks Piss is not with Pops (d1 read). Ank thinks Piss is town.
Hectic: has some super partnery posts, also has some super not partnery posts.
Bob: buried his partner, still robotic, if there's a bus vote probably here maybe??
NaCl: Just seems... town. Has not posted a lot, another potential light busser to look at.

Does anybody in these 5 have a great argument for why they're town?

My piss town read has only strengthened. His play as scum is agenda driven and it’s just ... not that, here.

Frankly, A50 thought Elsa was PO, so I’ll have to see what he thinks now that we know she isn’t.

Hectic I thought was town for his reaction to Nancy’s “tow slip” day 1, but I mean, it’s nothing to hang a hat on. I kind of have a hard time seeing scum going that far out on the limb for pops as well.

NaCl feels pretty towny for me but no solid reasoning, similar to you.

Of note, skitter and I have dropped our SS town reads. He’s kinda coasting. But I’ve literally mislynched him before saying the same shit SoOoOoOo....

[Amrun]

Also, now that we know unwnd is scum, I don’t give my bob argument re: Pine much merit. It could be true, but my scenarios for Pine kill were at least one of {bob scum, Krazy scum} had to be true, so, welp.

[Amrun]

My piss town read has only strengthened. His play as scum is agenda driven and it’s just ... not that, here.

I am going to be honest, I think these 3 posts mean I can't let Piss live this game even if there are townie points

because the core town here is

- ND
- oka
- piss
- amrun
- unwnd
- SS

- eddie


leaving

- hecktic
- bob
- nacl
- elsa
- doodles
- titus

unwnd is justa shitty comprise

unwnd is in any case a counter to a counter wagon at this point. I think Ive underestimated the methodology oka has employed here and he's gathering reads, but the wagon itself is a compromise.

I don’t functionally disagree. I think he has to be in PoE. I think he’ll flip green though.


I don’t know why you’re locking Nancy town tbh.


In all fairness I havent reread yet, no time.


I want to know who DDL saves.

[Amrun]

How the hell do I not got a single vote? Why are we back on Pops? Who the fuck is Eddie?

I have so many questions.

VOTE: Eddie

Eh. From what I've read, I don't like Eddie much. So I'll recontribute again day 2 but for now I'm okay with your lynch.

I still think this series of posts, in context, looks terrible.


LOL at the gambit, pretty clutch clear there.

DDL will never be voted by me anyways.

VOTE: elsa


I’m kinda disinterested in this game lately cuz it’s on lock.

[Amrun]

Eh, I kinda forgot about it. I think you’re right about that.

Y’all gonna lynch piss anyway so lol

[Amrun]

I’m kinda disinterested in this game lately cuz it’s on lock.

Lul, same. I'm happy to sheep Eddie and lynch his 4 proposals tbh. Thought about reISOing Titus/SS just in case but eh, I'll take the carry.

If after me, Pissy, Elsa, and Bob are dead, and the game isn't over, my guess would be SS. DDL's thoughts EoD yesterday when we all thought he was doc that was gonna die felt really townie.

His part in the gambit makes me feel better about SS.

My PoE is the same as Eddie’s, or almost, so I am not sheeping him, but I don’t functionally disagree for now.

I have pivoted back to TR bob. I kinda sorta TR the whole pool... Not strongly. Bleh.

[Amrun]

amrun if you have any issues with the pool or forsee any its important you say your piece now when the ics are alive and we dont have to watch a paranoia mexican stand off

Eh, I’m less paranoid about Nancy now, and even SS due to his part in the doc gambit.


I am losing the strength of my TR on Titus.

But I still agree with the lynch pool as it stands.

[Amrun]

fmpov there's info scum know and doc knows

I wanna know too

Can’t target the same target two times in a row.

[Amrun]

You dont need strength in your own Titus TR, you just need strength to sheep my Titus TR.

I had a very strong Titus TR from her early game play, so I’m not really interested in re-entering her into the lynch pool or anything.

[Amrun]

VOTE: bob

I think this is the way to go today.

I was having a little tinfoil moment on Oka, so, I’m glad scum killed him. Thanks.

[Amrun]

I think anyone suspecting me is actually suspect. I’m not usually like that but I think my play this game is so extremely clearly not-scum-with-pops that painting it any other way can be scum motivated.

[Amrun]

I think anyone suspecting me is actually suspect. I’m not usually like that but I think my play this game is so extremely clearly not-scum-with-pops that painting it any other way can be scum motivated.

Now how is it scum motivated to state a fact that you being scum is theoretically possible? You're not even my biggest scumread and I'm cooking my jets because of my mental health. Why so defensive?

I didn’t name you because I think math saying that off of VCA while not reading the thread isn’t suspect. But outside of that ... yeah it’s a little scummy.

[Amrun]

VOTE: bob

I think this is the way to go today.

I was having a little tinfoil moment on Oka, so, I’m glad scum killed him. Thanks.

???

You already knew he was confitown due to unwind death.

Hahaha I forgot he was that neighbor. Well, doesn’t matter either way. But that’s funny.

[Amrun]

now neither flipped scum wee on any of the hectic wagons

Hectic (5) - Pine (t), OkaPoka (t), pisskop (t), armum, Nancy Drew 39 (x)
Hectic (7) - Pine (t), pisskop (t), Nancy Drew 39(x), DrDolittle (t), OkaPoka (t), titus, elsa

Does this mean hectic is scum, titus or elsa is scum. Or that all 3 scum were off it.

As when pops tried to back up her push on armum

"As for Amrun allowing Hectic to live, my read of the situation was that Amrun felt that Hectic wagon would be an unpopular event D2 and hopped off of it. I don't see the two as buddies."

was this her personal view?

Are you saying this spews Hectic town, or scum?

[Amrun]

Eddie, how do you feel about Hectic?

[Amrun]

I think bob has an inflated sense of how bad the Pine kill looked for him. I was literally the ONLY one to think it did. It objectively looked worse for Krazy/unwnd, who is probably who drove that kill anyway.

[Amrun]

Which is consistent to me for how bob thinks as scum.

[Amrun]

if you're insistent on keeping bob, i think I'd prefer elsa over hectic, but I'm also ok with bob popcorning tomorrow's lynch

Agree with this totally. Bob’s a good solver so if he’s town I really do want to know his solve. Doesn’t stop me from wanting to lynch him though.

[Amrun]

I’m totally fine with this.

VOTE: Elsa

[Amrun]

then you have wagon before it

pisskop (6) - DrDolittle , bob3141 (b), NaCl, Titus, Nancy Drew 39, Elsa Jay

now one of biggest reasons i unvoted is that i didnt like those later votes.

More importantly in hindsight it seems fairly likely scum would be on this.

[Amrun]

To me it almost looks like pops and krazy planned on bussing bob d2 or d3 before they got destroyed, they both had him second to last and shared him without ever voting

Yeah, I noticed that too. Is bob an experienced scum player? Because if he is then Oka kill would look really bad for him, I would think.

Idk how experienced but he is a good player of either alignment - very strategic.

[Amrun]

My issue with Elsa, is that she is just not doing ~anything~

Seconded. I might vote there because Math has SRed the slot since go but I can't deny the Bob associations look bad.

My favorite vote is SS though.

VOTE: SS

Can you walk me through why scum SS coaches that doc gambit?

[Amrun]

VOTE: Hectic

I prefer this to bob, and I don't really want Elsa anymore.
I agree she's not really doing anything, but is the scum move to just kill the person who was suspecting you a bunch yesterday and then just...not do anything afterwards? I don't really see how it's supposed to get anywhere.

I don’t know, there are certain posts that really don’t make a lot of sense if Hectic’s scum, like pointing out I townslipped, not once but twice - second time with Oka.

Pointing out townslips tend to usually come from a townie mindset.

This is why I TR Hectic. Not that scum never do this, just the way he did it.

[Amrun]

My mind is full of fuck.

I might vote NaCl. Someone talk me down.

[Amrun]

VOTE: NaCl

[Amrun]

I really have no paranoia at all about DDL.

[Amrun]

unvote

Too early for L-1

[Amrun]

VOTE: Hectic

It feels spicy in my soul.

My reasons for TR Hectic have evaporated - they were OK early game but don’t hold water now. And I don’t like how neither pops nor Krazy/unwnd ever voted Hectic.

This is a better place to start.

[Amrun]

arnum's patience is unbounded

Feeling cute

Might change my screen name later.

IDK

[Amrun]

Agreed with above two posts.

[Amrun]

Thanks! It was p much skitter though.