Problems with the Queues

[Alisae]

Experimental queue isn't an awful idea, but a Open Setup Review Group could also solve the issue of checking setups before they're run.

If you look at those contests I'm sure there are plenty of willing folks.

I feel like if the Open Setup Review Group had a place where they can actually test setups, that would be helpful

[gobbledygook]

I don’t really understand why we allow micro sized games to be run outside of the micro queue. I think it backlogs those queues.

to the contrary, i find that the open queue is so backlogged that non-open micros find themselves backlogged by the micro opens that otherwise would have been in the open queue. i think a situation like that is taking place right now.

Oh really? Admittedly, I have not taken a look at the two queues or the current games. That type of back log makes sense though from what you’re describing.

———

Mathdino fixed Hard Boiled with Noir, why is the former still being run?

The use of Weak in the Weak Hider role seems to conflict with the current Normal definition of Weak. We should name it a Pacifist Hider with the Pacifist modifier being one that dies if it targets a role capable of killing.
That might mess up Detective investigations and may “re-break” the setup. Either way, discussion for another thread I think.

[northsidegal]

tbh, I just want a queue that is exclusive to only the moderators with the highest rep. Something sorta like a VIP queue.

everyone starts somewhere. the recently finished purgatory was dannflor's second game and i think it's exceptionally done.

Experimental queue isn't an awful idea, but a Open Setup Review Group could also solve the issue of checking setups before they're run.

If you look at those contests I'm sure there are plenty of willing folks.

they're already supposed to, as i understand it. having a separate slot for experimental setups has a twofold benefit, in my eyes: it allows new setups to be "fast-tracked", solving a problem which has been noted frequently by the monthly open queue designers, and it prevents the open queue at large from being blocked by two unknown setups which players may be reticent to sign up for.

[OkaPoka]

i think what pops means is if there is a demand for a certain setup, it doesn't mean that a mod will come in and fill that demand

instead you have this weird dichotomy of mods running setups that they want to run

and players don't sign up unless they find a setup they want to play

so until there is a match, you just have artificially induced clogging of the queues until the signups are pulled and new setups can enter the market until something works

[BBmolla]

Experimental queue isn't an awful idea, but a Open Setup Review Group could also solve the issue of checking setups before they're run.

If you look at those contests I'm sure there are plenty of willing folks.

I feel like if the Open Setup Review Group had a place where they can actually test setups, that would be helpful

the only real solution for this would be to try to run a Monday Night Open Setup Testnight in Discord or some shit

[OkaPoka]

compare that to normal queue where the supply is essentially always the same so its literally a matter of player demand

no need to play ms.net tinder

[BBmolla]

Cause yeah we've got tons of new setups coming but, no way to figure their balance

[OkaPoka]

i would play open setup testnight

[BBmolla]

My fear would be the sort of thing where if it's too frequent the appeal is lost and players stop coming

Like if we had a weekly marathon queue I imagine it'd be less crowded, yknow.

[Alisae]

everyone starts somewhere. the recently finished purgatory was dannflor's second game and i think it's exceptionally done.

Correct! This queue would function as
1. A place for someone like Varsoon or someone who is already known to mod these really fantastic games that people love to play
2. A place for new mods to get some rep.

[BBmolla]

And timezones

I've been here long enough to remember skype mafia, it was fun

[Alisae]

the purpose of a queue would be a queue that strives for quality.

[gobbledygook]

I am confused how balance needs to be play tested for an open setup? Wouldn’t the testing be for figuring out what’s fun?

[northsidegal]

The use of Weak in the Weak Hider role seems to conflict with the current Normal definition of Weak. We should name it a Pacifist Hider with the Pacifist modifier being one that dies if it targets a role capable of killing.
That might mess up Detective investigations and may “re-break” the setup. Either way, discussion for another thread I think.

That's actually a quirk of the wiki page rather than the setup itself (in the game mathdino ran it was just referred to as "hider"), although there'd be a contradiction between the normal definition either way.

i think what pops means is if there is a demand for a certain setup, it doesn't mean that a mod will come in and fill that demand

instead you have this weird dichotomy of mods running setups that they want to run

and players don't sign up unless they find a setup they want to play

so until there is a match, you just have artificially induced clogging of the queues until the signups are pulled and new setups can enter the market until something works

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I tried to get at part of that when discussing how the Normal queue doesn't have this problem as compared to other queues.

I think that having three games in signups at once would at least serve to lessen this problem.

My fear would be the sort of thing where if it's too frequent the appeal is lost and players stop coming

Like if we had a weekly marathon queue I imagine it'd be less crowded, yknow.

What do you think of just a dedicated slot in the open queue rather than a specific "open queue test day"?

everyone starts somewhere. the recently finished purgatory was dannflor's second game and i think it's exceptionally done.

Correct! This queue would function as
1. A place for someone like Varsoon or someone who is already known to mod these really fantastic games that people love to play
2. A place for new mods to get some rep.

I'm not sure I entirely understand the specifics of your suggestion if new mods also moderate there.

[Alisae]

I'm not sure I entirely understand the specifics of your suggestion if new mods also moderate there.

I just want a queue that will always have a moderator I can count on to not fuck up as well as mod a really fucking good game.

[northsidegal]

Okay. What do you think of my suggestions regarding changing the Open queue?

[BBmolla]

I am confused how balance needs to be play tested for an open setup? Wouldn’t the testing be for figuring out what’s fun?

yeah I guess that matters

[Alisae]

Like
consider it a Moderator Spotlight kind of queue?
It puts spotlight onto mods that are either
- Rising Stars in the modding community
- Already established mods with an excellent reputation (me, Varsoon, FakeGod)

[popsofctown]

Queues will always suck because you get your turn in queue based on what you want to mod, and whether it fills quickly is based on whether you want to play. It's the Electoral College of forum mafia

Could you elaborate?

I can restate myself. Tomorrow I can make an alt named Rhodesy and one named Isla-chan and claim the main account is Ras but somehow the listmod is kewl with this. Rhodesy can join the open queue to run 11v2 Mountainous, Isla-chan will join the open queue to run 4p Dethy as a forum mafia game. It will be decided they both get 2 weeks to fill. On day 11, when no one has joined either game except that Isla-chan is in for Rhodesy's game and vice versa, Jingle will post that Cultist Recruiter or any of his other popular setups will be in queue next, 7 people will post pre-/ins in the thread instead of PMing him, and they will be hushed as we keep repose and meditate on Rhodesy and Isla's game for another 3 days. The system works perfectly to serve who it is intended to serve, Rhodesy and Isla, not Jinglefornia

[gobbledygook]

Like
consider it a Moderator Spotlight kind of queue?
It puts spotlight onto mods that are either
- Rising Stars in the modding community
- Already established mods with an excellent reputation (me, Varsoon, FakeGod)

I think if people were willing to let others run their setup could help this issue. I never understood why more people don’t do loan out their setups.

[Alisae]

I would like to see the Open Queue completely reworked to work similar to the Newbie Queue.

[OkaPoka]

Okay. What do you think of my suggestions regarding changing the Open queue?

I think having three open slots could theoretically alleviate some issues with the Open Queue because what it does is it results in more "shots" at creating a game that meets demand.

But also the Open Queue is the least popular queue and I don't think it has a consistent enough playerbase to even generate consistent demand so fracturing might just be the death blow to the queue.

Having three signups doesn't necessitate a removal of stagnation in the queue, you have three games unable to meet demand, they sit there and block the queue. I guess on the positive side is you cycle through setups faster.

Basically the point I'm trying to make is that to implement your change is a massive risk by the list mods and administrators who I assume don't want to just kill the open queue while its still barely breathing in favor of a change that may or may not improve it.

[Alisae]

Like
consider it a Moderator Spotlight kind of queue?
It puts spotlight onto mods that are either
- Rising Stars in the modding community
- Already established mods with an excellent reputation (me, Varsoon, FakeGod)

I think if people were willing to let others run their setup could help this issue. I never understood why more people don’t do loan out their setups.

I actually loaned Duckie a setup and am 100% a fan of co-modding

[Alisae]

Here is how I would rework the Open Queue.

3 games in sign-ups at once.

1 would be the setup of the month. Something that players can reliably play, similar to how the Newbie queue functions.
1 would be how the open queue currently works but for minis and large opens.
1 would be the same as above but for 9 or less players.

[OkaPoka]

maybe create a method in which moderators can see what types of games are in demand